Mini Normal 2185 | EFoBBBiO | Game Over!

[Gamma Emerald]

I think it's fair if I state there's no information on a N2 result from Galron

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ll fail the challenge xD
I noticed a new thing about myself. Apparently I have a big tendency to avoid problems...
aaaaaaaaaand I might have a tendency to defend myself with “no I’m right, you’re dumb.” type of arguments when angry
which is kinda toxic. I don’t know how to deal with it yet but I’ll try to fix it somehow.

The conversation about lunar kinda broke me
I just kept running away for 2 days because I didn’t want to read anything more about that, which would cause me to have to argue more and get more frustrated

that’s not a perfect attitude to play FM.

but anyway, I’m back. I can’t say that I’m over it because I’m not. I will likely break down and try to escape again if I have to argue about it more so lemme just ignore it fn.

I could have worked on casing bugs/luca while I was basically avoiding the thread but my brain didn’t want to accept that I’d have to read the new posts then, sooooooo here we are

(I still didn’t btw xD)
(it’s kinda silly how this works but w/e)

lemme just focus on what I want to do. (yes, writing the cases that I’m already a week late with is included there. if you want to hammer before that, I won’t argue. if I manage to write it, it’s good. If not, I guess not. I already failed pretty badly so I don’t really have a right to complain here. Let’s just play)

I feel ya, dude
I haven't been paying good attention, did frogster do his thing with me and ejji?

[Gamma Emerald]

I moreso meant his comparison of ours and why it caused us to conflict
but I think your post I quoted might explain it just as well, and I'm willing to go with that

VOTE: bugspray
I don't recall anyone else having a reason to wait to end the day

[Gamma Emerald]

I guess Ejji should claim with reports, then Lunar. They might be counter claiming each other here now.

I'd prefer the inverse but either probably works

[Gamma Emerald]

yes, but it doesn't change much

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually the result was that you were VT
I figure you’re towny enough from your play + faking a guilty on scum that it’s not a game changing result. It also makes some sense why he checked you N2 because of the claim + retraction

[Gamma Emerald]

I hadn’t thought much on it but it feels that way

[Gamma Emerald]

Just throwing this out there - is it

possible

there could be four scum, one perhaps being a traitor?

That could explain the apparent amount of Town power.

I feel like the NRG tries to shy away from such setups? Also I feel like the town isn’t actually OP rn
At least 2 mafia have legitimate excuses for the Neapolitan and the backup neighbor can slip by the TA

[Gamma Emerald]

Informed can claim something that’s public info if guiltied
Backup neighbor has a role that’s be made known if a neighbor dies anyway, so they have to claim their real role, which explains a neap guilty away

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I'd like to go for Trendall or OutWorldER. Failing that, NoPower or Frog.

VOTE: Trendall

This bugs me

Is this some sort of hint?

Is Lunar scum traitor, along with a Bugs, Momrangal, ejj scum team?

Just something that caught my eye.

It looks funny but I don’t feel like it’s hinting at anything
Though someone theorized on the traitor possibility earlier, idr who rn

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm a Vanilla Town. Gamma claims next.


Frogster there is so much stuff that spews me as Town, I literally cannot comprehend how you have not figured it out yet.

just a backup neighbor
trying to think about ways I can help but not entirely sure rn

[Gamma Emerald]

joqiza and frogster are both conftown

[Gamma Emerald]

Frogster was also the n2 check by galron, he also got cleared

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Lunar
he's flailing at this point, he is trying to find the best miselim and switching his vote as he changes his mind.

[Gamma Emerald]

They seem kinda okay on a skim

[Gamma Emerald]

Random thought but I wonder if Momrangal was Mafia Informed of a Neapolitan. That might explain why she claimed PR in response to Grendel.

Did Galron claim his exact role before D2 or just say he had a green check? @hood

He just stated he had a green check

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m sure he has a plan.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Frogsterking

what is your lim preference today?
I think based who is voting whom aorn I’d rather vote out Lunar

[Gamma Emerald]

If we get to <24 hours remaining I’ll hammer OWER here

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: ower

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t feel like limming ejji is a good move
I feel like the way he immediately snapped to fessing up reads like newbtown that failed a gambit and wants to try to mitigate damage

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t feel like limming ejji is a good move
I feel like the way he immediately snapped to fessing up reads like newbtown that failed a gambit and wants to try to mitigate damage

The phrasing of this is actually a bit weird to me, given that ejji is saying you knew the whole time. Your words here indicate distance, since you're calling him a newbtown that failed a gambit. But you were (ostensibly) complicit in his play.

Why did you allow ejjinami to do what he did?

I'm not trying to suggest I wasn't complicit in the claim move, I was kinda like "alright you go champ" and we actually chatted about it a bit during d4
I'm just feeling like he played it in a way I feel like isn't the best, but suggests he is town.

[Gamma Emerald]

I still feel like it's probably lunar out of those two, but I've been toying with ISOing the flipped scum and seeing what their interactions with everyone had been

[Gamma Emerald]

that's honestly an issue I have with you
I don't see you legitimately townhunting, you're just calling people scummy. That seems like the endgame tactics of scum, not town
Meanwhile Luca has been working to eliminate suspects, as evidenced by recent posts

[Gamma Emerald]

I really don't see how you got to ejji being off the table based on reading the last 5 pages

[Gamma Emerald]

No, I'm trying to figure out why your PoE is the way it is, in order to determine your alignment
unless you can effectively address the above concern I'm left to conclude you're scum who's letting your perspective slip.

[Gamma Emerald]

I haven't gotten the memo, so maybe you could at least tl;dr it? I don't want to have to fucking close-read the thread rn

[Gamma Emerald]

If I were scum I could very much just take things as they seem from you, you don't exactly make yourself the towniest person
But I'm actually asking questions because I seek to understand you here.

[Gamma Emerald]

Potentially
but do you disagree that I could just push you on the things I'm trying to ask questions about?

[Gamma Emerald]

Two Mafia backups makes the game a lot less swingy, because there's not really any scenario where Mafia has a chance of winning the game where they don't at some point gain access to the hood. The game could get thrown out of whack with only one back-up who dies early. This also suggests that maybe Ejji could be Mafia, but I still think there's no reason for Ejji as Mafia to hard defend me the way he did.

So it looks like your main point is his hard defense of you doesn't seem like what scum would do
Why?

[Gamma Emerald]

zzzzzz
you're not posting anything that actually looks like it could come from town over scum rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Yes
Why you such a bitch about explaining stuff again?

[Gamma Emerald]

That would maybe assuage some of my immediate concern regarding Lunar

[Gamma Emerald]

wnoifoinegwnenierinef
your math skills are terrible

[Gamma Emerald]

I honestly really hope you're scum because you are denser than a neutron star if you're town.

[Gamma Emerald]

I honestly really hope you're scum because you are denser than a neutron star if you're town.

Walk me through how any of that implies Luca is Mafia.

I’m not stating that
I’m stating your play this game is a dumpster fire, and I’m inclined to eliminate you just because if you’re scum you don’t deserve to win with this level of play.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well it’s how I feel and I’m not feeling like filtering myself

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Lunar Martian
Reviewing my play mentally, I feel like anyone who is town would be able to see how my game is beyond what scum should really need to pull in a game like this, and as such I think Lunar is scum who dodged that entire issue by trying to present an argument based on votes, a much more bendable medium. Statistics don’t lie but liars use statistics, and that feels like what Lunar is trying to pull.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay on second thought I lashed out at an error initially, but I stand by my assertion that my play stands tall and proud and Lunar is trying to use alternate arguments to overlook that.

[Gamma Emerald]

Look at Gamma's positioning on and around wagons, particularly wagons that flip scum. Gamma is willing to vote Mafia early on but then unvotes to "rethink". Gamma generally was pushing counterwagons to scum wagons.

I reviewed the quoted votes and this doesn’t even seem to match what’s quoted.

[Gamma Emerald]

that's fine imo
just do what you can

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m online but like
Don’t think you’d want me to be the one listening

[Gamma Emerald]

Hrrrrnnn
This was not a good time to drink as much as I have, it seems

[Gamma Emerald]

Am I gonna have to get the ball rolling here?
PEdit: wow that was spooky

[Gamma Emerald]

Is this something you'd like to discuss or...

[Gamma Emerald]

I haven't thought on it in-depth but just from today's stuff lunar seems better than you

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah except I was trying to avoid miselimming ejji
why not just let it go through?

[Gamma Emerald]

I haven't thought on it in-depth but just from today's stuff lunar seems better than you

Why's that?

the fact me and lunar both thought to post similar things at the same time. The power of "same hat" is quite compelling
I also feel like you wanted to push lunar as your game-winning miselim and thought better of it

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah except I was trying to avoid miselimming ejji
why not just let it go through?

ejj is scum's dream in LYLO.

And scum always get some benefit from seeming to be against a Townie's elim.

and yet you threw full sus on him D5
Like, your behavior that day kinda reeks of trying to make sure all your options were opened back up

[Gamma Emerald]

I was not entirely focused on this game then

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Bugs

I feel more confident about this atm. I really dislike Amélie‘s reads and the way she formulates them, but it could be a clash of play styles more than anything. She reminds me of the kind of player I’d tunnel and end up mislynching in the past.

I feel like given where this vote came it could definitely have been a distancing/bus vote

I think this page says either Gamma or Luca is Mafia.

This comment struck me as an attempt to divert the attention away from Bugs and create paranoia over their wagon.

Given the situation we're in now this looks pretty bad

I’m more confident on Bugs/Lunar being partners atm.

I recall Luca calling out a post where momrangal pushed those two as town if I flipped scum, that dichotomy of opinions that wouldn't have even stayed valid following my lim feels like a distancing ploy as well, I'd have to check future mentions of that from luca but if this bugs/lunar association persists then I'm pretty sure Luca is scum here.

[Gamma Emerald]

Anyway, your reaction to this pretty much confirms in my mind that you're scum. I think as Town you'd have seen where I was coming from at least.

On what
As for you being sus of ejji, that's not so much the problem as you deliberately screaming out that I wasn't conftown anymore. That is why I'm accusing you of wanting to make more options.
I also don't remember if I did or didn't talk on this earlier but I do recall feeling your play was problematic. If I didn't say anything I was probably just shocked at how much of a tantrum you were throwing.

[Gamma Emerald]

Luca's play throughout D3 onward looks like a desperate attempt to scrounge up whatever miselims he can muster after his partner all got dumpster'd

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not a role-blocker, I’m a macho neighbor. 
This whole charade was just a really dumb attempt to make this game a mech-win by getting killed

The only ones who could have known about this plan were gamma (whom I talked to yesterday before attempting it) and Luca (whom I stupidly ended up claiming to have blocked).

VOTE: ejjinami

but now that I think of it all of that was completely useless... Regardless of who did it, killing frogster was a big brain move

Wow. If you are Town then this was a terrible move. Literally the only reason I was Ok with eliminating Outworld (who I had locked as Town since D2) was because I thought a Town win was inevitable, based on you being a Roleblocker.

And now we have Gamma, who I had thought was conftown, who is also still a suspect. I need to completely reevaluate again.

I'm really lacking motivation for this game right now. I feel like just eliminating ejj tbh.

Before the fakeclaim, I thought ejj was scum by PoE. Now I'm back to being of the same opinion, but even more so given they were being deliberately deceptive.

I don't think Lunar is scum. Gamma has seemed Townish most of the game, and two scum back-up neighbors would be strange. There's also the fact that the BG died N1, so scum probably knew about Galron being a PR.

really?
as for the case, it makes some good points, which is why I asked if you wanted to talk about it.

and the more I read the second page of Luca's ISO the more apparent it is his play is scum play. His turnaround on ejji is the most awful thing I have seen in a while.
VOTE: Luca Blight

[Gamma Emerald]

It wasn't about the case. It was about the way your read flip looked. I know lunar pretty well atp I think, and he tends to stick to his old reads. So you probably saw it as easier to get him on me than me on him. I was also suspecting Lunar coming in mostly because I felt like the night was going on so long that scum had to be agonizing over who they could push easier. In addition your previous play matches up with the idea I initially had that you're trying to take the easy way. Also, I need to double-check something because I think there's evidence that Luca is scum in the mech side of things.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also Gamma has just played in game where I (correctly) changed my mind in LYLO and voted someone I had previously TR, which is even more reason why Town!Gamma wouldn't be so quick to think I'm scum for changing my mind on him.

That didn't look like you were working from a script. In this game that's how your play feels.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, I need to double-check something because I think there's evidence that Luca is scum in the mech side of things.

So about this. ejji whined a bit in the neighborhood about his Luca block he claimed being a potential mistake. Lo and behold frogster died that night (and on that, I probably would have NKed joqiza first as his reads were never as open as frogster's I feel). And then, following that, ejji instantly retracts his claim, which results in Luca pitching a massive fit about "how anti-town ejji was" despite trusting ejji completely prior to that. Luca probably was banking on the fact he knew he couldn't have actually been blocked as proof ejji's role was false, but hoped he'd maintain the ruse one more day in order to get through that dayphase without getting limmed.

[Gamma Emerald]

and so you wanted ejji eliminated D5 WHY?
Yeah no, you've caught yourself in your own web of lies.

And if I wanted to kill people for confident reads I would have actually killed ejji N4, as his reads D4 were unshakeable.

[Gamma Emerald]

on one side you're saying ejji's play was anti-town and he HAD to be limmed for it
on the other you state him lying as town never came to your mind

it's a pile of lies!

[Gamma Emerald]

and so you wanted ejji eliminated D5 WHY?

Because I thought ejj was likely scum.

I'm not informed, unlike you, so it isn't so easy to separate lying town from lying scum.

So why the hell was there no shred of doubt from you D4? The way you've moved from day to day in this game, specifically these last few, has been atrocious. You went after Galron D3, who had claimed PR, and hadn't given his N2 result until I had to badger him for it (which with bugs being scum you would've known), then went for OWER D4 with blind trust in ejji's claim, then pitched a fit about how anti-town ejji was while trying to absolve yourself of the miselim you were just on.
That isn't town play.

[Gamma Emerald]

It never came to my mind on D4, no.

I obviously considered it D5, but I felt that scum!ejj would have to lie in that position, whereas town!ejj wouldn't have.

And I stand by it that they were objectively the correct elim Yesterday. You don't bring slots like that to LYLO.

Remind me what your stance on BBMolla was during that large normal?

[Gamma Emerald]

Good night.

[Gamma Emerald]

I want to vote Luca for the Hammer and I want to vote Gamma for wanting to kill Luca suddenly.

Persuade me.

I feel like there’s nothing distinct between your play here and my completed games with you, you were town in those so I’m thinking you’re probably town here
Plus I got a vibe from Luca that when looked into made it apparent his play is meant to get him from day to day.

[Gamma Emerald]

the thing is that hammer didn't exactly seem sudden, outside of it cutting discussion
which Luca had done before but in the second one referenced he acknowledged the mod being on for the flip.
Although honestly I think the hammer issue is a weak point and the fact he's obsessing over it indicates he has to resort to essentially semantics to argue his case. In addition Luca trying to say I

should

be arguing his hammer was scummy looks like trying to double-talk, given his insistence his quickhammers are a towntell.

[Gamma Emerald]

okay that was a misread
but still, you're focused way more on the hammer point than you should be as town.

[Gamma Emerald]

uhm okay?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'll write up my thought on luca later

[Gamma Emerald]

I'll TRY to put something out but tbh I've just had a massive wave of apathy for absolutely everything, so like, just hammer whatever if your mind's made up lunar

[Gamma Emerald]

School has just really been taxing my mind. I also tend to agonize over endgame scenarios as scum, so tbh if you want to call my lack of care about being hammered AI it would more likely be town indicative
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=84404 that should be a decent example of such a situation, but I have a coupe more I can reference if you care for it

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah, and I posted a lot in the scum PT the last night about planning my final kill

[Gamma Emerald]

At least it’s over.

[Gamma Emerald]

Thanks
But honestly Lunar is surprisingly good as town

[Gamma Emerald]

At least I didn’t get screwed by the setup this game.

[Gamma Emerald]

Honestly had ejji not been limmed so quickly I probably could have effectively stated that I had faked who the imo was on and gotten enough townpoints to squeak by

[Gamma Emerald]

*inno

[Gamma Emerald]

Welp.