Page 9 of 95
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:20 pm
by Grendel
In post 172, Frogsterking wrote:I just did a couple quick read-throughs and I saw that momrangal pointed out there is high neuroticism in the group as well so there will be more needless abstraction and self-consciousness.
Everyone that is posting actively looks pretty town to me aside from NoPowerOverMe. I saw that momrangal pointed out NoPowerOverMe's behavior is likely NAI because it's motivated by his disagreeableness, and I agree, the reason I suspect him more than the others is that I believe he will play the same way as scum, whereas the other active posters are less likely to be approaching the game in this way simply because they don't have the experience lying because outside of mafia and they're not really motivated to practice lying or get very many opportunities to practice it because they aren't extraverted or disagreeable. Obviously they could still be very good at lying in general or have practiced it for this specific purpose (lying in a mini-normal on mafiascum) it's just less likely when you think about what motivated their behavior in the past leading up to this game, so for that reason I FoS NoPowerOverMe alone in the active posters.
Players that don't have the desire or the experience to practice lying are going to need to construct some sort of persona for themselves, lie low for much of the game, or replace out. The persona they create is going to need to gel with people that are open, agreeable, and neurotic.
The conclusion of my conjecture is that at least 2/3 of the scum are in the low-activity pool or mid-activity pool already, and in the case that one scum is in the high-activity pool that scum is NoPowerOverMe because his temperament gives him more motivation and opportunity to practice lying in his day to day life, so it makes more sense he would elect to adopt this same approach rolling scum in this game.
I feel like you are opperating under the assumption that there has to be at least one scum actively participating in thread. I understand how/why you think that but im critical of the approtch here becuase its basically forming mutally exclusive relationships based off inthread activity levels, which is not something i've seen be necessarily true. At least not quantifiably.
Have you had much success doing this before?
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:35 pm
by Grendel
In post 179, Trendall wrote:
It was only a vote to do with activity levels so it didn't interest me very much.
Thats not exactly all to it tho. I think thus far you haven't done anything meaningful content wise. Activity isn't the same thing as Content.
In post 186, Trendall wrote: In post 184, Frogsterking wrote:; and you believe when dealing with incomplete information we're forced to rely on intuition or abductive reasoning because there is no other alternative.
I don't believe this at all. I believe that this is going to be a very long game.
What is the best way to push the game state forward from your pov atm? Is it something you can do on your own?
In post 199, Trendall wrote:I swear I don't understand like half the words people are saying this game.
What words do you want definitions for?
Lastly, if Bug Spray is just a RVS vote then consider joining one of the forming wagons.
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:57 pm
by Grendel
In post 190, Momrangal wrote: In post 123, Grendel wrote:Mongeral, Luca, and Ameile aslo fall into the same boat of sliding through early game as Trendal. Thier only content being about RQS.
Then why are you picking on just trendel?
Also, what else are you expecting? The RQS suggested by frog was a breath of fresh air but at this point the game was open for less than 24 hours. There are two potential leads out of the random stage at this point. This was your only moment to get a string of posts out, with your only post being "I will post later tonight" so...
Becuase they were the first person i noticed in that pool of players. In fact i would have most likely consolidated onto Ameile if my Trendel vote maintained its status as a vanity.
I may have been over eager since i have had some experience using RQS in the past. i typically find scum more likely to lurk after submitting responses to the questions until somebody else gets the game out of the "random" phase. Usally because they both dont know how to move out of that stage naturally, and dont have the motivation to try. I reckon if i did it over agian i'd wait another 24~48 hours to see if things pick up more. Tho based on content so far it seems that the "only answered Frogkings queastions then dipped" group have still yet to make a developmental posts that look town to me.
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:02 pm
by Grendel
In post 195, NoPowerOverMe wrote:I'm not okay with yeeting Frog.
I think his logic is faulty but I don't see it coming from a scum perspective. I could see his process becoming more pro town as more information is available.
In post 196, Momrangal wrote:Not sure I could see scum defending his biggest scumreader in that nature, especially when he disagrees with the inherent nature of it
I do agree with this
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:05 pm
by Luca Blight
VOTE: Amélie
This is my strongest suspicion at the moment.
134 135 137 don't really add much to the situation.
138 is another example of saying something without really saying anything. It's the kind of thing I could see scum saying just for content's sake. I also agree with Gamma's
142 in response to this.
139 I completely disagree with her reads here, and it generally seems a lazy attempt at a solve to link all the supposed 'townbloc' as being the scum team.
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:09 pm
by Grendel
In post 191, Galron wrote: In post 177, Frogsterking wrote:The assumptions I'm running on are that 3/3 scum are all in the low activity end, because they aren't sure how to lie yet and are reacting to their own lies
Scum have no need to lie early game in general.
Low activity posters reacting to their own lies? If they're not posting they're not lying.
Your implication that the low activity posters are inexperienced at scum is dreadfully faulty and supported by nothing.
Your assumptions and early posting are vapid attempts at intellectual prowess that seemed to be designed to mislead. I think you're likely scum.
I usally dont see scum publicly taking over the conversation in this manner. When i do its usually somebody already known for being bossy/possessive on meta. I dont know if the latter is true in Frogkings place due this being my first game with him.
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:18 pm
by Grendel
In post 204, Luca Blight wrote:VOTE: Amélie
This is my strongest suspicion at the moment.
134 135 137 don't really add much to the situation.
138 is another example of saying something without really saying anything. It's the kind of thing I could see scum saying just for content's sake. I also agree with Gamma's
142 in response to this.
139 I completely disagree with her reads here, and it generally seems a lazy attempt at a solve to link all the supposed 'townbloc' as being the scum team.
For curiosities sake i would also like to hear what you think of Trendal, and Mommrangal.
-/-/-/-/-
Its gotten late on my end. Seeya tomarrow
I'm looking forward to bug Spray, and hopefully gambling pigs catch up.
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:32 pm
by Gamma Emerald
In post 202, Grendel wrote:. i typically find scum more likely to lurk after submitting responses to the questions until somebody else gets the game out of the "random" phase. Usally because they both dont know how to move out of that stage naturally, and dont have the motivation to try.
I think this is a good evaluation of the idea behind it, at least for the short term “reading people directly off of responses” tactic
Btw about the activity read discussion, I think any scumteam worth their salt would have someone trying to get their foot in the door if the {Gamma, Grendel, Galron, NPOM, frogster} set is all-town
Amelie’s attack on the block kinda feels that way.
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:23 pm
by Trendall
In post 201, Grendel wrote:What is the best way to push the game state forward from your pov atm? Is it something you can do on your own?
Sit back, relax. See what transpires. Have a think about the game. Check to see if there are any new posts.
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:24 pm
by Luca Blight
In post 206, Grendel wrote: In post 204, Luca Blight wrote:VOTE: Amélie
This is my strongest suspicion at the moment.
134 135 137 don't really add much to the situation.
138 is another example of saying something without really saying anything. It's the kind of thing I could see scum saying just for content's sake. I also agree with Gamma's
142 in response to this.
139 I completely disagree with her reads here, and it generally seems a lazy attempt at a solve to link all the supposed 'townbloc' as being the scum team.
For curiosities sake i would also like to hear what you think of Trendal, and Mommrangal.
-/-/-/-/-
Its gotten late on my end. Seeya tomarrow
I'm looking forward to bug Spray, and hopefully gambling pigs catch up.
I don't really have any read on Trendall. I'm not sure why, but I got a slight Town ping for how he was at first on board with the personality test and later turned against it. Perhaps as scum it would be easier to just stick to the chosen narrative, but overall not much to go on really.
Momrangal has a confident tone which makes me feel as though she might be Town, but still not a strong read as of yet.
Just looking through her posts now:
132 I don't really agree with her reply to Frogs here, that scum wouldn't soft a bus this early on, and I don't really think it's an important thing to highlight for discussion at this stage anyway.
188 I found it interesting how she used the word 'insulting' here, as though she had herself taken offence to what Frogster said. In the context of 'scum haven't posted much as they don't know how to lie', only scum would take offence to that. I actually agree with the point she is making here as I also have little time for Mafia on weekends, but an interesting choice of words on a subconscious level, perhaps. I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into that, but it's just something that caught my attention.
190 Says 'why only Trendall' in his defence when others have been inactive, which is far enough, but this kind of stance isn't doing anything to advance the game forwards, and she herself isn't voting or pushing anyone yet.
So with all this considered, I have her just below the null line.
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:26 pm
by Trendall
In post 209, Luca Blight wrote:I got a slight Town ping for how he was at first on board with the personality test and later turned against it. Perhaps as scum it would be easier to just stick to the chosen narrative, but overall not much to go on really.
I actually just love personality tests, like I can sit and do them all day. However I didn't think the method of trying to apply them to this game to figure out people's alignments or anything really was a very good or useful one.
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:34 pm
by NoPowerOverMe
Another good reason to town block active players is that if one of them is night killed then that would give credence that most of them are town.
In effect it limits scums options
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:51 pm
by Luca Blight
Not sure that’s technically correct; If most of the bloc were scum, would they not like to earn that credence while also eliminating a townread player? It enters the realms of pure WIFOM where you can’t really assume anything with certainty.
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:06 am
by NoPowerOverMe
No one said that anything was certain. the point is that it puts the ball in their Court and makes it more important and who they do and don't kill
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:32 am
by OutWorldER
VOTE: Trendall
slow game and holidays holding me up makes the game hard to read for me
I've actually had similar suspicions as those Galron has about Frogster but I was (and still am) waiting for certain things to happen before I'm ready to call him scum.
I'll join on Trendall for the time being. I feel his wagon probably pushes the game forward the most considering he seems to be active but his posting is vapid at the moment. Don't feel good about any NPOM pushes considering he's giving me a lot of VI feels.
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:41 am
by Frogsterking
Yeah Trendall is starting to look too much like an archetype recently and I'm going to have to FoS Trendall along with LunarMartian and NPOM (assuming at least one maf slipped into the mid-range or high-activity-posters pool). If NPOM is town and there are three maf from the low-activity pool, and Amelie is included in that group because of the recent timing of the majority of her posts, I'm not sure who my third pick would be alongside Trendall and LunarMartian.
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:58 am
by Frogsterking
@Gamma @Grendel Is there any other game state that can be done on D1 that will make it easier for you to scum hunt in or that you have experience with in the past or both?
At this point I'm coasting a little bit and townreading Gamma and Grendel and then all the other high-range posters through proxy, minus NPOM who for my own reason I scum read provided there was one scum that made it into the town block.
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:44 am
by Amélie
Back for a bit. Today I'm going to be carefully reading all of the thread. Before that, I want to state town reads on everyone voting me and scum reads on people that aren't taking stances on me/are town reading me.
I did a quick iso of myself in this game and my posts are extremely underwhelming and scummy looking. Anyone that doesn't see that is very likely scum.
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:45 am
by Amélie
I haven't been putting effort or thought into this game and it shows in my posts. It's disappointing and I'm going to try to fix it.
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:45 am
by Momrangal
VOTE: outworlder
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:59 am
by Amélie
Beginning my reread.
In post 14, NoPowerOverMe wrote:By the way I have drawn town 9 out of 10 times and that sucks because I love playing as scum.
In post 16, Gamma Emerald wrote:By the way I think for Day 1 I want to try to townblock and have a group of voices I trust to bounce ideas off of
Both of these sound overly fake. It's mostly a feeling but I think worth noting anyways.
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:01 am
by Gamma Emerald
In post 216, Frogsterking wrote:@Gamma @Grendel Is there any other game state that can be done on D1 that will make it easier for you to scum hunt in or that you have experience with in the past or both?
At this point I'm coasting a little bit and townreading Gamma and Grendel and then all the other high-range posters through proxy, minus NPOM who for my own reason I scum read provided there was one scum that made it into the town block.
I think if some of the lower posters directly engage with me that would help hone my reads more
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:04 am
by Amélie
This is definitely overly defensive. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with alignment though, as NoPowerOverMe seems quite prickly.
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:10 am
by Amélie
In post 55, Frogsterking wrote:VOTE: LunarMartian
Right now my main scum reads are LunarMartian and NoPowerOverMe.
Between these two I find LunarMartian the most sketch.
Everyone else I read as town so far.
You clarified the reasons later so I will retract my comment towards this post.
In post 57, Frogsterking wrote:
Why am I town?[/quote][/quote]
You se ... 96]post 62, Frogsterking"]
In post 59, NoPowerOverMe wrote:I don't think your tendency to equate personality traits with scumminess is productive.
I don't like the lack of insight here, I think NoPowerOverMe is smart and picking this fight for a reason. I believe that even if NoPowerOverMe were town and just couldn't follow what I'm saying he would be able to communicate his thoughts with more clarity because communication is his strength (and listening is his weakness.) He's acting like both communicating and listening are his weaknesses, but really he's good at communicating and is being evasive at certain moments by pretending to miss the point or by being unspecific about his thoughts.
I think Lunar Martian noticed something was off about NoPowerOverMe's post because they're super-conscious of being partners because it's new. Similar to my opinion of NoPowerOverMe's evasiveness and lack of clarity I find Lunar's description here about what he was thinking to be evasive in a way that also has a lot of potential to be AI.
So this kind of relates to my own "Let's assume they are scum and try to connect some dots" which I think maybe comes from town more but I've come to realize its not a great mindset.
Might I offer a really spicy hot take? NoPowerOverMe and Frogsterking are both scum. I might need to think on this take some more because its pretty spicy,
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:10 am
by Amélie
In post 223, Amélie wrote:This feels fake. I don't see why a read this early ever needs to be justified like this.
This was my comment. The quote broke for some reason.