TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

[the worst]

I feel like this plist is kind of agreeable in general (ABR pops up once every few pages and says nothing and points in a direction and people aren't alarmed at that. lol) - forming townblocks is unlikely to end well.

yeah and I'm certainly not one to point fingers here

I just have a vision of your scum game being sickly sweet and agreeable and your town game being still nice and agreeable but not afraid to make big ducky splashes. but probably asking you to make big ducky splashes for me right now is not the way to approach this so... i digress

I don't really think this is an accurate distinction between my towngame and scumgame Dann :< I am sickly sweet or splashy when I feel it as either alignment. I'm not gonna force it.

[the worst]

The closest I've seen is your reaction to the Agar wagon but even then it felt like a weak defense.

why would I throw my weight against a wagon right at the start of D1 when I didn't have anyone I wanted cw'd? that's a patently terrible use of time

I mean that's kind of what I was trying to get at

You thought Agar was making towny noises and JV was making scummy noises at the time

was there a reason you didn't want JV counter wagoned? or was it just a much less strong read than I thought it was

I can't even remember if I had a scumlean JV before I voiced discomfort at the agar wagon lol

either way I hadn't connected the two at that point so it would definitely be fair to say it wasn't (isn't) a particularly strong read

[the worst]

re agar I felt...slightly towny? at the time. the wagon felt uncomfortably fast given agar was actually doing content.

my read has dipped because he clearly wants to be read a certain way (apply Ola's "dgb fakes reads" logic to like, every second thing agar posts) and that makes me feel like just defaulting to townleaning him off early tonal stuff is dangerous

Lilith actually has a really really strong read and vehemently disagrees with all of the town pings I've mentioned so I've resorted to kinda dropping him in null and hoping he's today's elim so I don't have to get him right : shifty:

if I was an unlimited-shot D1 desperado I think Lilith would learn how to control my mind and shoot agar 40 times

[the worst]

so is it likely that AGar is town based on wagon movement? has that been discussed yet?

no, please do tell ~~
or is this wiki level VCA?

EBWOP: The patently false part was "agar was actually doing content."

I was very much not really doing content when I was run up.

you had like three or four posts and I thought they were fine / even towny? given how early in the game it was that definitely constitutes doing content relative to us who just shitpost and yell about nothing for the first few pages.

this is a really absurd thing to nitpick, what do you think of literally anything else happening?

Firebringer thinks Dan and Ythan are scum.

can warmpuppy expand at all?, Dann is in a weak spot of mine (but I don't like.....TOWNREAD him, I'm just super aware I am not going to get him yet) and Ythan seems pretty widely townread but is so, so far under the radar

so basically we are wagoning xtoxm for being wrong and then kind of moving the goalposts instead of admitting to being wrong (15-20 in his iso, particularly 19-20 being scummy posts)? at least that's what i'm getting from it?

this is like a third of the reason I'm on him

so basically we are wagoning xtoxm for being wrong and then kind of moving the goalposts instead of admitting to being wrong (15-20 in his iso, particularly 19-20 being scummy posts)? at least that's what i'm getting from it?

yeah i guess that isn't technically incorrect

although wagoneers are extrapolating a bit in saying that him moving the goalposts is a result of him wanting to have a townread and then making up a reason for it

this is better

my read has dipped because he clearly wants to be read a certain way (apply Ola's "dgb fakes reads" logic to like, every second thing agar posts) and that makes me feel like just defaulting to townleaning him off early tonal stuff is dangerous

I wasn't completely joking when I said he felt performative

I'd be interested in the lilith case but I understand if you don't feel that's the most productive use of your time

"Case" is an interesting choice of word
it's probably more of a very very defiant toneread

also spf has to be related to saudade right

[the worst]

3- unwnd has said all of his team agreed with voting me
4- look at who's on his team. look at who's on my team

i could be misremembering but didn't we like specifically establish that he said 'nearly all' or something like that

I still feel like this is a really sloppy misstep to make for scum!unwnd and doesn't actually lend any credibility to their push on you

duck
IV, dgb, unwnd
Dunnstral (I like him but I'm sheeping)
Oka, Cephrir, Hercule
Dannflor, Flakes, A50, Ythan
Titus, AGar, Hopkirk
JacksonVirgo, ABR
Xtoxm

I'm probably wrong on someone in the 4p core, they're my adorable weak town tonereads

actually this reads list feels weird when i take it with the thing you posted about struggling to get scumreads that i thought was townie since it feels like you very much do have scumreads...

can you explain what each person did that makes you want to think they're town - especially for the bottom 6. just like a single sentence/point is fine since you just said it felt like there was reasons to like everyone and... i'm not sure i get that impression from the couple of pages of posting from you here?
also interested in your reads on Flakes/A50 and why they're there. I'm assuming that's around a town-lean?

god I feel like I've already roundabout done this but I also recall you being a fan of making people do work so yeet

dann, flakes, A50, Ythan are there because all four of them have given me underwhelming tonal townpings. I feel like Dann hasn't been suffering silliness in a way that detracts from his ability to pocket. I feel like Flakes has defaulted to prickly & earnest before assertive which pings me as coming from a genuine mindset. I think A50 is drawing an absurd amount of attention to himself in a game which he might be able to deepwolf which is a very strange things to do as scum, but I don't understand his reads at all and he's not actually doing anything technically towny. Ythan seemed to respond kinda fine to pressure earlier and has slipped into a bunch of townpools so :shrug:

JV I'm legitimately struggling to townread but I also don't really outright scumread them atp? like I don't really pick up what they're putting down but I'm also just having a really hard time parsing it.

ABR I give exactly 0 fucks about but he seems really widely townread???

Xtoxm is the only person who I think is like, overtly scummy and it's really only because his Titus read felt too flourishy and underconsidered. Even then I'm surprised by that because he's technically a strong scum player, and he clearly wanted the read to look good.

Think of that readlist as an effort to solve bottom-down and I think it makes a lot more sense.

[the worst]

lol, get a job

worth the wait

[the worst]

I'm more Peta than SPF there - I get what SPF is saying but it feels like a really peculiar nitpick and I have no idea how anyone isn't seeing what happened there

All the same I'm just gonna go back to treating Hopkirk as town and seeing how that goes for me

[the worst]

mmm okay we think we know what you're talking about @Hopkirk, but we're not entirely sure. only thing that peta wants to say is that if it's what we're postulating at is that he thinks unwnd has more integrity than what we think you're accusing him of. spf thinks it's such a specific/complex thought process from you that it probably is town indicative.

and this convo is now so far in the weeds that I am considering it closed.

I know it's my fight but just saying scum finding roundabout reasons to justify their actions is more true than town. I think Hopkirk came up with the excuse of TM shit because it sounded good and nothing else

hard maybe

interested in seeing what else you're seeing with Hoppy

[the worst]

I assumed 1644 was a shitpost, lol

[the worst]

I think 1644 is still talking about a towntell

[the worst]

If Hopkirk is secretly a jokey shitposter I'm uh

Not seeing it

so to be clear I think that post is satirizing your perceived disbelief at him not being able to post more often

I think he flits between serious and jokey at the drop of a hat but it's still worth calling what you see and whatever

[the worst]

oh i guess it's a joke well shut up anyway i guess.

I feel this

pedit: yeah I think he's just upset about being scumread when he feels he's playing a towny game so he's reacting through ridicule; I don't feel like it's super ai, it'd help if you could explain what you're scumreading, but I think this is just something that rides out

[the worst]

hopkirk, do you have breakfast? when is dinnertime?

[the worst]

don't think any of 1644 was serious?

if anything I think the goofiness in his perspective is town indicative

[the worst]

@unwnd i made a visual guide for you:
what is hopkirk doing now?

i had to make some assumptions but i sincerely hope this clears up any confusion about hopkirk's availability so that you can resume sorting him for AI things

[the worst]

how do you know he's in the navy

if you read all of his posts backwards it's just "join the navy" over and over again

[the worst]

@unwnd i made a visual guide for you:
what is hopkirk doing now?

i had to make some assumptions but i sincerely hope this clears up any confusion about hopkirk's availability so that you can resume sorting him for AI things

this is how ellibereth played mafia

i know i'm a bit late with this compliment but your last like, 10 posts have been fantastic

[the worst]

ffs, not you too. flopz was asking me if i'd had three meals today. just because i only had one meal on saturday. i'm concerned i've put on a little weight over the lockdown. how am i supposed to address that except skipping meals when i don't like how i look in the mirror?!?

my opinion of flopz just skyrocketed
i hope you're doing ok & i'm sure you're fine -- the entire human race put on weight during lockdown, just make sure you're feeling ok!

[the worst]

jingle makes me wish i was scum :c

[the worst]

how am i meant to decide between eliminating xtoxm, eliminating abr, and policying hercule
this game is impossible

[the worst]

quality positive vibes going on here. <3

[the worst]

@a50 I think you know me well enough to hate cases, just let me inside your head. Wtf are you seeing with ABR? & Same for DGB I guess but I'm a bit less interested

When did you go from this post to I'm scum and DGB is town?

A50 townread you and scumread dgb

[the worst]

Because it feels like you're letting slip information inadvertently. The delivery of your opposition to my wagon was... of the questionable variety where I was paranoid you were scum calling a surefire yeet town preemptively and Shea felt you might be trying to pocket me and to be wary.

that's an absurdly lopsided way to try and pocket someone but I'm guessing this is of the same calibre as my early townlean on you where you check your read again once actual things happen or whatever

[the worst]

can someone please give me like a tl;dr on scumreading dgb I don't get it

[the worst]

I'm at the point where I kind of have to assume the ABR of old is gone and this one has just forgotten how reading comprehension and social skills work

[the worst]

OH SHIT IT'S MASTINA WHAT'S UP

[the worst]

oh you're the new JV
I'm tentative and scared but still excited

[the worst]

Xtoxm (8): OkaPoka, hercule,

the worst

,

DrippingGoofball

, Dunnstral,

Cephrir

, Albert B. Rampage, Titus

Literally my top 3 SRs are on the wagon. Sorry, but I won't be touching this wagon.

P.S. Xtoxm is indeed LHF as either alignment. He's a low poster. HOWEVER, check his signature. Don't you think there would be at least some resistance to his wagon if he had a team? I don't even see anyone @ L-7 when he is @ L-2 already

that's definitely occurred to me, but also kinda meh

I don't think it was particularly easy to oppose this wagon after oka and I tore into xtoxm about his read

SS is rereading parts of this game rather than sleeping and just remarked like 5 minutes ago about how bad xtoxm's Titus read was

it's kind of the sloppiest read itt atm and I just want more from xtoxm

[the worst]

I mostly like refuting A50 from time to time because I don't want him to feel too in control

[the worst]

want me to dig up three meaner things that I've said in this thread?

[the worst]

what happened to the classic "mastina catchup" structure?

[the worst]

what happened to the classic "mastina catchup" structure?

Where I don't stay up to date on the current things but read past pages?

I almost never do it when I am a replacement, and when I do, it's probably due to the game being a manageable length where I can read it in one go, in like the span of an hour, and then posts made after my replacement I can read as I finish the readthrough.

But for a game of this length, doing so is impossible, so it's necessary to make a choice:
Read the current posts while also catching up...
...Or stay behind for days, literal days, missing all of the new content no matter how important it may be. Having no clue what the votes are, having no clue how much time is in the game, having no clue what claims are made, and potentially, wasting huge amounts of time, both my own and that of others. (To give a hypothetical example, say someone was an outed mason--if I was unaware of that, then reading through the thread, I'd be wasting time trying to read the mason, as an example.)

This is just the smarter approach as a replacement.

Tho that said.

i don't disagree at all - i'm liking your style of catchup here (though curious as ever to see how your reads progress as you like, get closer to present - i feel like the start of this game was very dense and there's more fluff pages later on)

[the worst]

auro wishes for me to call out 1833 as fake news, his read was unrelated to iv.
he is a fan of mastina and would possibly be willing to sheep her on d1.
he also notes that he dislikes 1917.
paraphrased.

1) can auro flesh out his read? can you flesh out your read?
2) also a fan of mastina, rarely practically actually sheep anyone d1, her read progression tends to be about 30 times juicier than her initial reads
3) what is there to dislike about 1917....lol

[the worst]

if we were voting to kill i think agar is like, a gloriously good wagon

[the worst]

I know. I was having fun, too.

wait. this game? fun?
....this is making me nervous about townreading you :c

[the worst]

no, please do tell ~~
or is this wiki level VCA?

are you accusing me of being wiki level? because you'd be correct

but nah idk i assumed that the whole rush of votes on AGar and then how they slowed down and it eventually went out with a whimper was probs slightly town indicative? i dont really recall how we went from that to Titus becoming a CW to that but my assumption was people were just targeting the less active presences? i don't recall there being a whole lot of fight against the wagon either but i've been a haze the last few days so i mighta missed it

it went away because agar cased Titus and a wagon formed on her and then some people voted me and then xtoxm badposted and got called out on it

I really don't think anything about the way that went down clears AGar? consider that we've run him up twice because people are uncomfortable about his alignment: what changes in a world where he's town vs. a world where he's scum?

[the worst]

just a reminder even if you think his wagon is absolutely filthy it's 50%+ town

[the worst]

duck i hope your having fun because you are the last bastion of combined sanity, transparency, and activity

all I can say is we're all doomed

[the worst]

it's definitely low toxicity which is pretty awesome

hmm i'm not sure i'd call it like a fun time yet, but maybe i'm souring against day ones in general

[the worst]

just quickly replying:

your read on ABR is so vindicating. lol.

ceph read is very good and i think his uninformedness/actual curiosity at the shitfights is a really good way of qualifying something i've been ~feeling~ for a minute

mastina - Mixed. I'm just kind of leaving this slot for further evaluation. I didn't much like JV's posting at all. When the worst was suspecting them I largely agreed with what he saw, but I never heavily scum read the slot. It just seemed awkward and not as tempting a wagon target as Agar was.

There have been a couple weird things about mastina's entrance so far. It's strange how confident she is in her reads list based off the the first 15 pages in a near 80 page game. Also, I'm not a don corleone level scum player. That's not me being self-effacing there's just no one who would say that about me with a straight face despite the memes.

But I think mastina gets more readable as her trajectories become clearer, and she hasn't had time to form trajectories yet. So, I'm just shelving this read for later.

i feel real similar about mastina's slot. i want her to be town because i like her reads but i'm wary that i'm a good pocket in the heat of that moment but i'm wary that mastina knows i'm unlikely to receive a pocket gladly

has mastina played with scum!you since AvP? you played extremely well there; that's kind of where my mind went when she referred to you as DC level scum

the worst - Lean town

gottem

unwnd - Mixed

this read interests me a lot
i still think unwnd is town and i'm not really sure how to work out whether i'm right or not; i think they get a lot easier to read when we can tell what they've been doing today

[the worst]

if this was a smaller game i might vibe check and then speedwagon abr

i was just thinking this...lol

[the worst]

oh fuck this is so good
VOTE: ABR

[the worst]

just quickly replying:

your read on ABR is so vindicating. lol.

ceph read is very good and i think his uninformedness/actual curiosity at the shitfights is a really good way of qualifying something i've been ~feeling~ for a minute

mastina - Mixed. I'm just kind of leaving this slot for further evaluation. I didn't much like JV's posting at all. When the worst was suspecting them I largely agreed with what he saw, but I never heavily scum read the slot. It just seemed awkward and not as tempting a wagon target as Agar was.

There have been a couple weird things about mastina's entrance so far. It's strange how confident she is in her reads list based off the the first 15 pages in a near 80 page game. Also, I'm not a don corleone level scum player. That's not me being self-effacing there's just no one who would say that about me with a straight face despite the memes.

But I think mastina gets more readable as her trajectories become clearer, and she hasn't had time to form trajectories yet. So, I'm just shelving this read for later.

i feel real similar about mastina's slot. i want her to be town because

i like her reads

but i'm wary that i'm a good pocket in the heat of that moment but i'm wary that mastina knows i'm unlikely to receive a pocket gladly

has mastina played with scum!you since AvP? you played extremely well there; that's kind of where my mind went when she referred to you as DC level scum

the worst - Lean town

gottem

unwnd - Mixed

this read interests me a lot
i still think unwnd is town and i'm not really sure how to work out whether i'm right or not; i think they get a lot easier to read when we can tell what they've been doing today

lol what? did you even read her reads, like actually read them. or did you just see a wallpost and like the effort

her reads are like.. decisively contrary and very underdeveloped. so yes. i liked them. i'm also waiting for them to develop.

[the worst]

Xtoxm at l-1 with intent to hammer, im just gonna call out the chances of him flipping town are much higher than the worst / oka / ceph vote block seem to think

*snore*

is there a reason you're still playing page 5 of a mafia game on page 80whatever?

[the worst]

abr can you just. like. explain one read

[the worst]

Here's my take on xtoxm and why I think he's null

You have to put yourself in a suspension of disbelief that xtoxm (along with his partners) see he's at E-2 whatever and not have some sort of reaction to it? If that's a gameplan and he's just going down for the towncred, who the hell is bussing him? There is slanker scum, I'm not denying that possibility. It's just that I think even the most feeble scum could see the town rallying to kill him and at least want to do some FUD before they're out the door

I would like this answered from the 'xtoxm is obvscum' crowd

The wagon dissipated but I'm not letting this go, people

if i see uncrowned i promise to jump on him for this as well

[the worst]

shitty cold takes i would love abr to explain:
- me scum
- xtoxm town other than 1 dimensional wagonomics
- dgb town

[the worst]

i thought you said 'xtoxm is obvscum' crowned for a moment and i was like "hmm i don't remember that take but w/e i'll roast him for you"

[the worst]

i'm technically kinda nuller than i want to be on abr but i'm happy to flip dead weight playing in bad faith :shrug:

[the worst]

The worst spamming has been a big reason so killing him would be helpful to the game state. Xtoxm can still be scum I'll probably vote there before my teammates jump on me for not doing so. DGB feels like scum.

oh god. you're one of those players.

[the worst]

i guess he can say i made a mistake but if he's scum he's probably playing damage control which is what the "auro" post is. addressing the not main point of the post and some side stuff and disappearing again

auro's reads were really lacklustre as well though `-`

[the worst]

i have such a good throwaway line if i'm ever wagoned

as a wise man once said:
"there is no such thing as Death, really, you know, only Change, lmao"

[the worst]

still down to policy abr :>

[the worst]

mastina replaces JacksonVirgo.

mastina replaces JacksonVirgo.

woah mastina sure is good at replacing jacksonvirgo

- implosion

[the worst]

i've been TRing ABR for pretty much the whole game please dont' try that with me

but whyyyyy

[the worst]

xtoxm definitely was lurky in the team mafia normal no? @duck i know you were in that game

yeah and I wrote him off as "meh sort later"
scum

playing below his scumrange is a real bad tell for xtoxm d1

[the worst]

The level of certainty that xtoxm is scum is obnoxious to me. Same with the wagon on me. It's hard to play some good mafia with this herd mentality.

please be a beacon of good mafia then because so far you're like clearly the most dead weight player in the game lol

[the worst]

who is expressing such certainty that xtoxm is scum

I feel like this sudden concern about a phantom group of people that are deadset on xtoxm obv scum is made up

he's scummy but like ??? it's day 1 in a large if either of you flipped town I would be frustrated but not surprised

ding ding

[the worst]

They posted 16 times in one day while being ran up
And then at the end after they had been voted out, they posted one more time
It's not the same thing

He also posted like 10 times in one day while being run up when he was scum last team mafia. So posting while being run up is not a town-indicator for him.

The nature of the content when run up IS.

In last year's team mafia, there was a notable reaction to him being run up.

In Jigsaw's Revenge, he had no reaction to being run up.

This was a town game where he didn't post up a storm while run up. He lurked and was mislynched. With no notable reaction to being run up.

For the record, I've been looking over like 10-20 Xtoxm games (looking for games where he was explicitly eliminated during the day regardless of his alignment, so I had to exclude endgamed and survived and nightkilled results), and in the process I have thought that, while Xtoxm is hard to read, that this is still more likely him as town.

Noted. I don't think his 1 post here is enough to get a townread off meta though.

this is exactly the post I wanted to make but wanted to check before I made it

[the worst]

@Ceph

Dannflor feels passive and fake sorty imo hence my vote

iso dann and ctrl+f "spoiler"

[the worst]

mastina has never been a believer in linear time afaict

[the worst]

You guys are making the assumption that xtoxm somehow would care more if he were scum than if he were town

in fairness he does place more pride in his scumplay I think; idk if I've outright asked him that though and I probably should. that being said I doubt he likes the idea of being so polarised pro-scum that he can be reverse-ellitell'd so I think his posting pattern here tends towards manipulative

[the worst]

i've been TRing ABR for pretty much the whole game please dont' try that with me

but whyyyyy

he's being SR for reasons that i don't think make that much sense. He's playing similarly to how he did in the last two games I've had with him where he was both town. He was blunt. He wanted wagons on people. He made observations that people didn't necessarily like and didn't care. He made comments that didn't really make sense coming from a scum perspective, like the one on the xtoxm wagon that I just mentioned.

I thought he was scummy too in the first game I played with him and I was wrong. I sincerely think this is just his playstyle

I think we need to nolife at the same time some night because I don't think we're reading the same game

[the worst]

I think we need to nolife at the same time some night because I don't think we're reading the same game

I've probably read it less than you but I really don't see a world where Scum!ABR would care to make that post about Xtoxm, and the fact he's being wagoned for it is both ridiculous and a bad look on everyone who has voted it, imo.

Given he's been a literal lurker who was soft defended for no reason for like 80 pages my impression of the wagon is "about fucking time oh my god"

[the worst]

Does anyone else feel like everyone is using the word vibe this game

was getting that vibe

[the worst]

VOTE: xtoxm

[the worst]

no matter who the mafia are, A50 is the chaotic evil villain of this game

[the worst]

I've heard it's more fun to form opinions off 10% of the game and then ardently defend them

I feel personally attacked but you are correct and I'll bite anyone who says otherwise

[the worst]

WINTER FLAKES WAS UNCROWNED ALL ALONG???

[the worst]

WINTER FLAKES WAS UNCROWNED ALL ALONG???

Look who's not reading. This was mentioned early in the game.

I think your read on my tone is really off lol

[the worst]

Actually hold on for someone who is harbouring some super deep scumread of me which he can't explain how the fuck do you not realise I knew winter was Uncrowned

[the worst]

AGAR WAS INSTANTLY AT L-2 AND HE WAS TOWN
XTOXM AT L-1
ME AT 8 VOTES

THERE IS NO LEGIT BANDWAGON TO TEST REACTIONS ITS JUST THE SAME GROUP OF PEOPLE ALL VOTING TOGETHER FOR TOWN AND THEN ASKING ME WHOS SCUM

YOU ARE SCUM

This dude is scum or literally criminally dense and I like to assume the best in people

VOTE: ABR

[the worst]

like

> Wagons have been on limbait
> limbait is always town
> Wagons have been on town
> "ok cool can you explain your townreads"
> NOW I'M SAYING THE SAME THING IN CAPS
???

this is not a contrugent mindset
it's day one. lurker wagons happen. scum need to be utr or townread. I don't understand what he's seeing in wagons on lurkers with super shitty fake reads.
Agar is the best Lim by a decent margin and afaict we're just wagoning for content but hey ABR doesn't even have a reason for his agar read so who the fuck knows how his anger is even actionable

[the worst]

Hes literally complaining about sheeping and he turns around and expects us to sheep him onto people he refuses to explain why they should be voted like what

you know what. oka can be my lawyer.

[the worst]

I agree that putting some votes on you is helping me sort you.
Do you think I expected that wagon to lead to a lethal?

exact issue

This game is like a pack of hyenas trying to jam a lynch through without critical thinking and we are lucky we haven't mislynched.

*scrolls up*
*scrolls down*
ok where's your critical thinking sorry?

[the worst]

THERE HAS NOT BEEN A SINGLE COUNTERWAGON TO ANY OF US NOT AGAR OR XTOXM OR ME WHY IS THAT? BLIND TRUST AND SHEEP THATS WHY

You could say all these are counterwagons to each other.

The wagons never existed at the same time to compete with each other.

they like, literally did. is your issue with people vanity voting? because that's the only reason wagons haven't been bigger.

[the worst]

why is the worst being randomly thrown into people's scum lists

this is why i suggested abr explain his mystery scumread on me like a thousand pages ago. lol.
i don't think most of this list has had a go at trying to read my alignment

look tbh i need to go outside and i'm annoyed people are entertaining this dude playing in pretty poor faith. i could vote ythan. i could vote flakes. i appreciate i have no idea what abr's alignment is but that is because he is explicitly not doing anything to solve the game so i'm completely comfortable leaving a policy vote on him while i'm still grumpy.

[the worst]

like if the dude could spend a quarter of the time he spends trying to shit on people for wagoning and working on this game ACTUALLY posting reads we could be somewhere. there's nothing towny here. just manipulative caps posting. I don't know the agenda he's playing to but I know really blatant manipulation when I see it.

[the worst]

literal dream is agar/ABR to end the day

[the worst]

who's still vanity wagon or voting lurkers? they need to shift to their votes to high scum equity players

[the worst]

why is the worst being randomly thrown into people's scum lists

this is why i suggested abr explain his mystery scumread on me like a thousand pages ago. lol.
i don't think most of this list has had a go at trying to read my alignment

look tbh i need to go outside and i'm annoyed people are entertaining this dude playing in pretty poor faith. i could vote ythan. i could vote flakes. i appreciate i have no idea what abr's alignment is but that is because he is explicitly not doing anything to solve the game so i'm completely comfortable leaving a policy vote on him while i'm still grumpy.

I already explained this. I pushed you for a reaction not because I'm convinced you're scum

does this apply to all the other reads you're pretending to have?

[the worst]

I townread xtoxm, agar and mastin.

seeing mastina referred to by her account name from 1000 years ago is so jarring

sorry anyway: why, why and why

[the worst]

I was raised on her articles too

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guess as an aside, are you aware of the site movement away from the L word? I've noticed you still use it a fair bit

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oh so that does apply to all your fake reads gotcha

[the worst]

best riddance of my life

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"not being a distraction" and "being a lurksack" are worlds apart. yelling at people for being bad when you can't explain any of your reads is a hail Mary concerned scum strat.

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cornered*

pedit: what so nobody has been under any pressure for this entire phase? or is that how you divined your read on agar which you can't explain at all?

[the worst]

I think Oka is probably town being manipulated by a good amount of scum

And the people who keep coming at me for making these suggestions like

Are you entertained by the way this day went down?

would not be surprised if there are scum centre-gamestate. I also don't think they're particularly easy to find aorn.

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why you talking like ABR is flipped town?

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its a good thing if im being manipulated by scum because that means i get to keep living or scum pumps me and dumps me, only using me to kill a lhf

once im dead, ignore my reads you hear

i have lied about many reads hehe

may I suggest dumping and reevaluating all of your reads like 30 times every phase? :3

[the worst]

where are we moving then unwnd?

[the worst]

This hail mary to save myself narrative is complete BS.

I only started getting mad after everyone had already unvoted me, I claimed vt with only 2 votes on me. This is me being tired town and giving up.

if you're town you gave up on page 1 and idk how you can tell yourself anything else

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my reads on winter flakes and cephrir are slowly exchanging places I think

I'm not gonna pretend I thought of this but I like it a lot

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I don't think we move because we've moved like 5 times now

Further movement is just letting scum get away with unsubstantiated votes

I feel I hinted towards this

unsubstantiated votes get harder to substantiate when we look back! I love them!

why consolidate on someone you're talking yourself into townreading though? serious question, if I wasn't null on abr I'd probably be trying to talk myself out of policying

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i still very much feel your Ceph innately uninformed read and that's after he ducked my epic Dann/Ceph s/s read in AvP. but like other than tone idk what to read him off here so, like, sure. I think being paranoid of him is super valid.

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my only reservation of xtoxm is this eerie flashback to our first game together. I was deep in the towncore D1 and he was like, a very easy mis-elim. Around D3 or so I realised I needed to acknowledge that he was town and he was like "you're right but your read is too late to be towny" and that kind of readability progression really burned into my brain forever

Xtoxm is a meh elim. He wants to be seen as a meh elim. It's kinda hard to divine what happens there but why the FUCK are people townreading him

[the worst]

Game health makes easier games

i like u

[the worst]

I'm just gonna chomp down on the hypocrisy carrot to beat the trend but I currently think mastina reads unaligned and I think that for virtually no reason

if she is scum her partners feel kinda obvious and I don't think that's likely

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lurks

I'd contest AGar hasn't really lurked, JV/mastina slot hasn't really been ~part of the problem~ and kind of a hot take but I think implosion is doing a great job

[the worst]

vibe check on implosion?

I think he's quite good at slay the spire

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my fav elims are probably ABR (admittedly game health/policy influenced), xtoxm (epic shrug elim and I guess gth I'd rather play with him longer because I like him a lot), agar (least towny slot that has made a lot of noise).

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I think agar is the best elim but I don't wanna change my vote. :C

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imagine a world where we quick elimmed agar

I would still elim him for the record

same but he is intimidating so I'm waiting for someone else to do the work.

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My updated read list:

Hopkirk / ABR ← Off the table for good

Titus / iv / AGar / Xtoxm / hercule / Dunn / mastina ← Off the table for today

Dannflor ← Town Lean for now

Winter Flakes / unwnd ← Null

Ythan / Oka ← Mixed feekings

Cephrir / the worst / DrippingGoofball ← Scummiest 3 slots of the game

we aren't gonna vibe this game are we monkey?

bracketing

This made me realise okapoka is the main character of this game and now everything makes sense and we're doomed

[the worst]

imagine a world where we quick elimmed agar

I would still elim him for the record

same but he is intimidating so I'm waiting for someone else to do the work.

Intimidating???

agar? a little yeah, he has that "not angry just disappointed" energy which makes me not want to cross him

I think I'm being kind of mostly ironic; if we're still lolwagoning for fun and banter I'm just gonna do whatever but when push comes to shove I'm down to kill agar for reals

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somewhere in {duck, hercule, hop, ceph, dann}

oh don't worry about me dear chicken, I would never let you down so <3

we start murdering people like that and your going to see some absolutely embarrassing lylos

bang. I'm fine with A50 atm but I don't really think any mindset but true monkey moonlogic paranoia sees 3/3 in Ceph/tw/dgb. We're just all really cute.

i still very much feel your Ceph innately uninformed read and that's after he ducked my epic Dann/Ceph s/s read in AvP. but like other than tone idk what to read him off here so, like, sure. I think being paranoid of him is super valid.

(posts like this are why the worst, IF there's deepscum, would be the deepscum.
But I'd like to reiterate: no, I don't think there is deepscum. I feel very bad even positing tw as scum at all because I'm deeply terrified that people will construe this sort of post on a future day as evidence for tw being scum and paranoia-eliminate him when there's actually no deepscum in the locktown.)

Thanks for baiting the n1 kill MASTINA

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yes i get it everything that calls me scum is good and everything that doesn't is bad thank you mastina

you're the kind of slot where like ideally we just win the game before this is important

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policy-

I agree it's a policy elim. I disagree that he's town. :p I have no idea what his alignment is, I just wouldn't miss him and don't think he's exhibited capability to play in good faith.

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huh I went to say "I see it but you're fairly different people so" and realised I really see it lmao

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oh my god is ceph me in baton pass

i forgot you were in that and i'm sorry you had to suffer

i play mafia to suffer

mood

@ceph I feel like we're in similarish spots in this game but you're like, more widely townread. don't stress about it. if you're town you don't need to be deep in the towncore D1 - it gets easier to towntell and find scum later. you know this. whatever. I know what you're feeling.

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we aren't gonna vibe this game are we monkey?

Not until you prove me wrong by being a shining beacon of towniness

I don't think I've managed that for a good year now but I'll try?

i have convinced myself flipping agar isnt too bad because if he's scum then at least mastina should be locktown and not needing to sort mastina can simplify so much

bang
same should apply to Titus and I also think that read was kinda really fuckin flamboyant for what it was

VOTE: agar it's like christmas

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fr tho you guys can see im not s/s with this slot right

I don't really see it but like... ?? should I be clearing it?

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fr tho you guys can see im not s/s with this slot right

someone is going to use this post to scum case you in like elimlo and I hope I'm not alive for it

I hope I am so Ceph and I can win

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ugh sorry guys I don’t know what the best way to get back into this is, I’m so far behind at this point and don’t have the motivation to read the last 50 pages

Retro IV meta you were incapable of making this post as scum lmaooo

anyway sorry

yeah what Dunn is saying, I actually did read the last 50 pages for some reason and they were meh. just go with what you feel.

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one thing that is annoying to me is that like, there seems to be a okay reason to townlean like everyone in this game who is actively posting

I genuinely do not have any scumleans

Hmm I feel very differently, what are your most controversial townpings?

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why would you oppose A50 and ABR over others?
jsyk Dann has gotten a lot louder over the last pages - he's probably the only player who's gotten like remarkably more sortable other than mastina imo

why don't you love dunnstral or dgb the way I do?

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It's not that the top posters are actively just agreeing with Oka and that's it, it's that Oka's thought tangents form a circle of discussion almost always

It's happened two or three times

it's a playstyle quirk which happens when you post first thing later (oka town playstyle which I've like, historically been v v similar to) -- conversations flow around you and without you necessarily steering them your dialogue starts adapting to the trajectory of the conversation, if that makes sense

so okapoka being ever-present makes it feel like he's centre to every conversation but not necessarily leading the game, he's just like, a spiritual narrator or something

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I explicitly don't nullread Ceph

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I'm not really sure how to bait this so I'm going to ask: did you see my post about how I feel about this game collectively?

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no idea how DGB plays as scum, and nothing seemed massively out of scumrange I saw from her, why are you strong town on dgb?

it's kind of hard to put a label on. I think its reads feel sincere. I don't think it feels aligned with anyone (I guess in a vacuum I can kinda see why people might think it's aligned with me). Generally I've just found myself agreeing with a lot of the stuff it's posting in realtime but I don't feel like its reads are updated to reflect a like, safe/under-the-radar mindset which I'd expect it to be going for as scum given it really isn't being pushed. sorry this isn't super helpful. I keep posting stuff to my team like "hey I think dgb is town for this" and there's a lot of nodding and there's been a few times when they've chimed in with things they've liked from it as well and I haven't really seen anything I haven't liked but there's also been enough friction from it that I haven't felt like it's playing safe?

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gonna be level with you i don't think scum look scummy this game. i just doubt they look towny.

id love to hear more about this hypothesis. and why is "this game" different from a normal game?

quality of the playerlist and the fact I don't feel particularly good about any scumreads.

obviously scum players always play to be townread, and a lot of the game can be won by checking whether things people are doing are conventionally towny (they think they'll be townread for it) or actually legitimately towny (more sincere / the person may not realise what they're doing is towny sometimes).

nobody is like..failing that objective. I think everyone here feels entitled to be townread to some extent?

@iv this one

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I kinda forgot I made it in response to you lol

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He really is. I would not be surprised if he's scum at all but he's a huge "meh" flip D1.

[the worst]

Shea and I have been discussing that ABR is almost certainly town. Shea's point is specifically that ABR's frustrated response to the formation and dissipation of wagons has a significantly high chance of being town and between he and I we agree there's no scum benefit to ABR objecting in the manner he did.

*opens mouth*

*closes mouth*

[the worst]

Buzzword density exceeded. "High scum equity players" fucking lol, what is that even supposed to mean, the reads you made up?

ok boomer

[the worst]

This happened last team mafia in white flag

We swung the end of day wagon in like 8 different directions before we finally just said fuck it and eliminated the lurking slot which refused to play the game

It flipped scum

I was thinking about that game earlier
for the love of God flip the fish

I literally don't care between agar/xtoxm and the throwaway future VCA comment agar made just now kinda feels more s/s than ABR with either of them so

[the worst]

hoppy why agar over xtoxm there?

[the worst]

I'd figure so, in smaller plists he's usually fairly capable of obvtowning as town, so I'm happy to sit on the sidelines.

why are you town on abr? I need to find a reason to drop this so badly and I respect your reads

[the worst]

oh awesome, thanks for letting me know. I'll update it when I'm at the laptop tomorrow. (Assuming I remember )

[the worst]

i need to summarize whats going on in this game

big events:

*flashwagon on AGar
*AGar makes long wallpost which not many people read in full
*flashwagon on Titus
*Titus starts posting content
*Xtoxm says something weird about townreading Titus for townreading me
*flashwagon on Xtoxm
*Xtoxm does nothing
*YBR defends Xtoxm people accuse of it TMI
*flashwagon on YBR
*YBR posts about gamestate and some people split off
*Votes gradually go back to Xtoxm
*mastina comes in and starts defending Xtoxm and people get mad at her for a weird read and not reading the full game
*Lot of arguing and votes gradually split towards Ythan, Winter
*mini flashwagon back on AGar
*mini flashwagon back on Xtoxm

is this like kind of a correct interpretation of what's been happening

that's a kinda fine summary tbh

[the worst]

stupid agar is making my team fight again

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Spoiler

these are cool reads for like page 5, keep us posted on how they progress

[the worst]

We've got him asking for an elaboration on a read in 1176 and then I give it in 1361 and then... silence. Why even ask if you have no intention of engaging/acknowledging?

your answer was really boring lol i'm sorry

[the worst]

nice

i am incredibly drunk right now and haven't read anything but does anyone want to interact with very drunk hopkirk in real timewe

yeah come back

[the worst]

Agar's content is presented in a way that makes me want to vote them

this is a huge same and potentially kind of topical

lilith (and honestly i) feel that the longer agar's posts get, the more he just grasps at absolute nonsense to try and drive a point through. when he's not saying much i kinda get the impression he's reading, analysing & reporting back. when he says a lot i get the feeling HE WANTS HIS WAY AND HE WANTS IT BAD which is super non-towny. you get it reading the titus case; it's like a pretty bad case and i don't think i need to dissect it to show anyone why. it's pretty unlikely to accomplish anything except for like, temporarily shifting attention onto someone else. it's not towny for agar. it's not condemning for titus. it's just noisy nonsense and i'm still kind of curious what he expected it to accomplish. the timing of it really makes me think he wants to try and bury titus. maybe he just thought it'd work. fuck if i know. he's also only putting effort into posts when he's under fear of death which is

meh

.

ss is firmly in the "nonsense does not mean scum" camp and kind of considers this a towntell. ss also townreads 548 and we both kind of view 2860 as like, clearly completely wrong, but also FINALLY someone attempted a scumcase against me and it's actually more cohesive and believable than i thought one would be? i can talk thru that a bit more if people want but i'm not sure i can be bothered.

i'm kinda pulled both ways




pedit: magic 8 ball tbh

[the worst]

ythan - he had one post that pinged me 728

"You are not authorized to read this topic"

This was probably approved by the rest of his team before-hand.

i woke up to ss & lilith talking about this

the fact this was a pre-written post is making me feel further lukewarm about it. i'm kind of indifferent wrt whether it's a scum pt or team pt slip.

[the worst]

sorry: SS would like it noted that he views 2860 as less cohesive than i do but thinks the tinfoil/perspective stuff rings pure.

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ss has also observes out that him reading my game means that i'm absolutely town. he then implored me not to make this post.

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I've pointed out that xtoxm's response in 2560 earlier felt awfully sure of themselves for someone sitting at E-2 and that had been threatened to eat a hammer unless you knew you had scumbuddies on the wagon who were going to pull the ripcord in order to make sure you didn't die. Worst was on that wagon and then pulled the ripcord 40 posts later.

this is also kind of impressively real to me

i think your titus case got drowned in the kerfuffle of people who inexplicably wanted to scumread you for forgetting to vote and i should probably read it again

in hindsight i think the forgetting to vote thing was pretty superficial, i think his titus read was generally like ludicrously graspy though

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ss has also observes out that him reading my game means that i'm absolutely town. he then implored me not to make this post.

lilith is also following this game and wants to be included. datisi has been pretty cold on this game but says hi.

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just at work, i'll be back when i can.

SS has been keeping up with this game. paraphrasing his thougths:
- dunn is towny in 3028
- xtoxm's post wasn't a copy/paste of something a teammate wrote because that would break rules
- the shitpushes on xtoxm were enough for SS to townread him even before his claim
- assuming AGar/Xtoxm are both town (SS' read) there is one scum defending them
- DGB is really confbiased and its read there is bad and that's probably town indicative

[the worst]

whomst does SS think we should flip today

i'm guessing you don't know SS well.

we're talking about whether ABR fits the bill of his "one scum defending agar/xtoxm" currently - i think he does but i don't want to put words in SS' mouth.

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oh update.

SS notes that he hasn't been super active in keeping up so has missed a fair bit, but he agrees ABR is a fine pick based on activity around TMIey AGar/Xtoxm townreads. the fact ABR is now voting Xtoxm to "remove dead weight" at the expense of the claim is alarming. he admits this isn't the strongest read, but. in duck words: check SS' day one voting patterns. he also notes ABR is very unlikely to be the /only/ person who fits his "scum defending AGar/Xtoxm" read but I don't really have the time to run through the list with him rn.

Lilith interjects to say she HAS been keeping up actively and would also flip ABR today. asserts mastina fits in the "scum defending agar/xtoxm" description. i think the way she's not really defending xtoxm but isn't voting there is gth a fair bit townier than ABR who is explicitly townreading xtoxm but is also policy? voting him.

i also want to vote ABR lol so i'm indulging
VOTE: ABR

[the worst]

I guess assuming AGar/Xtoxm is town which admittedly is a big assumption

eh kinda
i really don't know about xtoxm personally, but i see what SS sees. at a bare minimum, on the basis of the claim & amount of anti-xtoxm tension, i'm fine leaving him alone today. on the flipside i actually not only see what SS sees about AGar but I also really like the read.

kinda gone for a bit now i'll try to pop in

[the worst]

ask em about ythan

he'll get back to you
i have like no opinion about ythan if that helps

the shitpushes on xtoxm were enough for SS to townread him even before his claim

wait is SS saying the claim in a vacuum is +town? I had the exact opposite impression

if anything, I would’ve considered a VT claim +town

no. the claim is neutral. but it's a strong PR so should be left alone for a couple of days.

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specifically because scum will almost always claim a PR at this point imo, that plus Xtoxm’s indifference to getting wagoned up and fakegammered made me feel like they were more likely to be VT or scum

i don't dislike this at all

i need to go like half an hour ago

[the worst]

@abr my team want to know why you think my vote on you is bullshit

[the worst]

nobody, lol.

for the record we explicitly want to know what part of it seems fake. it felt like, extremely natural to us and you've been a point of contention in our dialogue for a long ass time - what part of my read on you makes you just go "bullshit" carte blanche?

[the worst]

You're happy with any mislynch but I'm clearly the bigger threat to you and yours. You don't want to NK a VT so you're back trying to form your coalition against me again with ceph and dany.

see this is actually bullshit - you're posturing. try again in good faith?

[the worst]

it felt like, extremely natural to us

Very very weird thing to say.

honestly your entire iso is stilted reaching nonsense so pot/kettle

can you stop calling every second thing i say "weird"? lol

[the worst]

nobody, lol.

for the record we explicitly want to know what part of it seems fake. it felt like, extremely natural to us and you've been a point of contention in our dialogue for a long ass time - what part of my read on you makes you just go "bullshit" carte blanche?

You've been angling for me for quite some time and waiting for your opportunity. You come at the king you best not miss.

this is patently incorrect? - i've pushed you several times and been confused and consistently curious when people back off or townread you for dubious reasons?

[the worst]

@ABR
SS is less annoyed than me. he asks why you believe it's angling for a push, rather than just town!us deliberating on our actual read.

[the worst]

it felt like, extremely natural to us

Very very weird thing to say.

honestly your entire iso is stilted reaching nonsense so pot/kettle

can you stop calling every second thing i say "weird"? lol

If I said "I find X that I did very natural" wouldn't that ping you as a weird thing?

Like I'd be concerned/no one is going to admit "I found this thing I did unnatural".

So why qualify it that way?

do conversations with your team not feel natural to you?
we've discussed our reads and frequently deliberated on ABR. we had a discussion earlier about where we need to be pushing rn and came to ABR being the place. it did feel natural. not sorry.

i do things i find unnatural all the time

[the worst]

i need to stop posting and do my job

ABR's completely fake read on me should be like abundantly transparent by now. he wants my elim, but can't put a reason on why. everything he's posted trying to explain it is naked posturing - i repeat, guy is scum or criminally dense and i like to assume the best in poeple.

if anyone wants to towncase him, hit me.

[the worst]

last post before leaving:

@AGar SS wants to know where ABR is coming from / backs the "natural" comment because himself, lilith and I reached the conclusion through reasonably different methods. he finds it jarring that of all the things we've posted, *that* is the one ABR considers "bullshit" because he feels it should be fairly clear that it's natural.

[the worst]

UNVOTE:
look i'm 20 pages behind, babysitting makes me not want to play and i'm dealing with someone who is literally less competent than a baby
lilith and ss are both getting strong "oh shit abr is town" whiplash and i need to be doing other things.

[the worst]

@oka we understand but you are completely incorrect

[the worst]

A50 its noted- I'm feeling colder about my dgb townread but my team still thinks she's town. It's definitely not falling on deaf ears, just confused ones.

[the worst]

the important thing to consider about a tracker claim is the +ev is very very low. on average its not going to be helpful especially in a large.

This is so short-sighted it hurt when I read it. I think you're only talking about "direct guilties", as in "I tracked this person to the dead person". But how about "I'm a VT" -> "No, you're not. I saw you visit this player"? Or "I visited A50 on N1, Oka on N2" -> "That's a lie. I was on you on N2 and you didn't go anywhere"? Trackers are

strong

informative roles. the +ev is never "very very low"

bang

A50, SS wanted me to say that if someone links to a post number which is greater than the number of posts in a thread, the link will revert to the op