Are u like even in this game orIn post 1106, Elements wrote:if GC is scum, why is he not scum reading me?
Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER
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In post 1111, DkKoba wrote:you know im scumreading u... right?- Reformed Toxic Player
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Theres just that energy of just hedginess and not pushing to solve slots, just in keeping options openIn post 1127, Datisi wrote:oops i got distracted by Things
also @green am i null to you?
i've been staring at this rtp v green for far too long. i'll reread it once i have more than 3 functioning brain cells bc right now this just feels like a bunch of annoyance and talking past each other.
@rtp can you explain to me what you meant by widening poe? bc i legit don't think i get it
yeah i'm feeling dead ok bye- Reformed Toxic Player
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you know the only reason my slot was eliminated last game was because of a mason who was mad i FOSed 2 masons and accidentally townread a mafia but still came around at the end right? im not an easy elimination or safe.In post 1138, RLotus wrote:
I disagree so much. Why are scum taking such a hard route as opposed to just jump on RTP or Elements when that would be so much safer. Like you are a highly townread slot and my push on you already has shown to have a lot of resistance.In post 1047, VP Baltar wrote:I'm actually enjoying people jumping on me because there are absolutely scum making bad life choices in this mix.- Reformed Toxic Player
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I get called scum every game no matter my alignment. its nothing new. I know the cases against me this game are easily debunked so im barely worried and its obvious to me when people are bad faith pushing me.In post 1142, RLotus wrote:
Well you are getting called scum this game so why doesn't Elements go on your wagon instead of VPB who was only getting pushed by me. And why doesn't Duchess go on Elements for the same reasonIn post 1140, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:
you know the only reason my slot was eliminated last game was because of a mason who was mad i FOSed 2 masons and accidentally townread a mafia but still came around at the end right? im not an easy elimination or safe.In post 1138, RLotus wrote:
I disagree so much. Why are scum taking such a hard route as opposed to just jump on RTP or Elements when that would be so much safer. Like you are a highly townread slot and my push on you already has shown to have a lot of resistance.In post 1047, VP Baltar wrote:I'm actually enjoying people jumping on me because there are absolutely scum making bad life choices in this mix.- Reformed Toxic Player
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i dont know but everyone needs to take a step back right now bc this isn't helpful.In post 1152, VP Baltar wrote:RTP - help me here. Am I falling into the same toxic bullshit that I got into with Taylor? I'm trying to be reasonable here, but I have a hard time when people are clearly selectively picking posts.
can you post an updated reads list for me? preferably with some reasoning.
RLlotus, you too since i havent seen much in terms of reads from you.- Reformed Toxic Player
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This is like due to recent elements interactions -> something I think I am seeing but don't have the votes to help get it through it feels because it feels people are too scared to go that way.In post 1150, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:Also I think I'm changing my mind on elements and that they aren't a good d1 elimination anymore.- Reformed Toxic Player
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excuse me?In post 1170, Andresvmb wrote:Not completely. But VPB sounds like Town to me, and your push there seems bad (around 869). If you flip Scum I would flip RTP too actually. You guys seemed overly aligned there for a bit. If VPB is onto something, he’s being sidelined in a rather aggressive way.
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why is BM town to you?In post 1171, Andresvmb wrote:RTP is pushing {GC, Elements}, and you RLotus are pushing {VPB, ItalianoVD} while leaving Elements at null and attacking some of the “lurker” slots. Somethings not right. I would gamble Datisi is siding somewhat incorrectly? But is maybe too transparent with their logic and reads for Scum. I also thought Battle Mage was Town and don’t understand the discredit there from RTP.
and ive been doing a lot of reeval over the past 5 or so pages - what you are seeing on your catchup is not accurate to current me.
and please don't try to have a repeat of last game where i literally help get scum d1 and u pivot straight to me for shit reasons.- Reformed Toxic Player
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im trying to remove the stubbornness from my play since its been holding me back. its the easiest thing for me to tap into when im scum though - you would know.In post 1173, Andresvmb wrote:This game man. I honestly feel I’m flip flopping a bit hard since I had RTP as my top TR but I feel like Koba would maintain their SR of my slot instead of beginning to reverse it just because I expressed positive feelings there. Where’s the stubborn self-confident Koba I know?- Reformed Toxic Player
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yeah - it feels as though GC might be whiteknighting elements and setting up elements into me and thats why i backed off - removing elements from the equation does help remove BM from the equation as I thought they had some partnery vibes there too. so im basically back at 1 solid scumread.In post 1187, Andresvmb wrote::- Reformed Toxic Player
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wanna link your 2-3 most recent scumgames that isnt baby animals?In post 1189, RLotus wrote:
That's a huge style change if you really believe that, I'll you now that I'm far out of my scum rangeIn post 1185, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:i was hesitant on RL bc of the change in style from last game but as I understand it it looks like their agenda there was to deepwolf and didnt care about bussing partners for towncred then - this could very well be a different RL here?
what do you think of GC @andres.- Reformed Toxic Player
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yeah i approached the game wrong. sue me. i wanna be ~thorough~ and new evidence has popped up.In post 1195, Andresvmb wrote:
Okay if I was going to be critical of any post, it’s this.In post 873, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:
this is sorta the place im also looking at if one of GC/Elements ends up being town.In post 871, RLotus wrote:Another note. VPB and Datisi have a strange connection this game. The most obvious thing is that Datisi followed VPB both to Dunn and to RTP. I've also noticed reading through VPB a couple moments where VPB and Datisi were kind of just assuming each other's alignments, as if they already have knowledge of each other's alignments.
Idk if scum would really make it this obvious their connection to each other. I'm not going to jump to conclusions atm, but it is something interesting to note for later.
ive basically PoEd it down to 5 names i think. (if i reread both VP/Datisi and they're town that makes it even better)
GC/Elements/BM/VP/Datisi <- this PoE may likely win the game here.
if im FoSing another masonry here imma be big mad tbh. and if i AM please do not assume im scum for it bc i will always fos masons who are bad at pretending uninformed bc yall always play like u got an agenda to save ur mason partners and it makes it harder for town to scumhunt.
There’s absolutely no way you think that POE wins. I don’t believe it for a second. I’m not going to even pretend to have a decent handle on this game. But a 5 person POE at this stage, while already declaring a potential switch onto other players if one of your main SRs flips Town, seems just plain Scummy. And you’re sheeping what me now and abandoning this POE?
after blatantly misreading me last game u should be more cautious u know?- Reformed Toxic Player
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duchess has been on my backburner and i keep reminding myself about that slot - they are definitely hard under the radar alongside harumi slot maxwell - i still think harumi leans town here though.In post 1198, Andresvmb wrote:VPB and Datisi are not both Scum here. I’m going to go out on a limb and claim that’s impossible based on how they’ve played. GC yeah maybe is Scum, but if they’re not, then what? You agree one of Italiano/Duchess deserves some scrutiny then right? But no mention of that? I’m not following.- Reformed Toxic Player
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UNVOTE:In post 1200, RLotus wrote:
YeaIn post 1199, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:you've never played on other sites? like this is your first time venturing into mafia?
VOTE: GC- Reformed Toxic Player
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yeah my d1 reads suck ass lol i had a 0/3 read last game. (granted it was masons so 2/3 informed hahaha) - but i think i have a good grasp of setting up winning PoEs at the very least and ~possibly~ getting 1 good strong scumread d1.In post 1204, Andresvmb wrote:
Well my misread wasn’t that aggressive, and I am cautious around you. You’re good. But you *are* admitting that the view you expressed earlier this game was wrong? I’m just skeptical of the fluidity behind your views here that’s all. If it’s a deliberate attempt at moving away from your meta then I don’t know what you want me to do about that.In post 1196, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:after blatantly misreading me last game u should be more cautious u know?- Reformed Toxic Player
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i guess ive been trying to compensate for my wildly bad reads d1 by trying to do much more reeval now? like - ive noticed a pattern in my town games where i pin down either 1 or 2 scum, and 1 is just off my radar and im tunneling a town(assuming 3 scum), so id rather fix that into catching all scum into a nice PoE box.- Reformed Toxic Player
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honestly i was never even thinking in this direction bc theres nearly nothing to suggest that those 2 are partners with eachother.In post 1211, Andresvmb wrote:Not saying it can’t happen btw. But if they’re both not feeling pressure, they would avoid linking themselves together in the early game is my feeling. Unless they both want to power wolf (and that’s exhausting), I think it’s totally reasonable to assume they’re at least not Partners.- Reformed Toxic Player
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i assumed both GC and elements wouldnt flip scum thereIn post 1213, Andresvmb wrote:
My point is a bit different. I’m critiquing the construction of that POE you put out there. I don’t think there was much thought put into it, outside of grouping some players that are skeptical of your slot {BM, VPB, Datisi} [and c’mon they’re not all Scum that’s like impossible], and some easier slots to push given the game state in {Elements, GC}, though I suspect you couldn’t get a GC execution through (and maybe that’s the point).In post 1212, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:
honestly i was never even thinking in this direction bc theres nearly nothing to suggest that those 2 are partners with eachother.In post 1211, Andresvmb wrote:Not saying it can’t happen btw. But if they’re both not feeling pressure, they would avoid linking themselves together in the early game is my feeling. Unless they both want to power wolf (and that’s exhausting), I think it’s totally reasonable to assume they’re at least not Partners.- Reformed Toxic Player
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I'm not following.In post 1217, Andresvmb wrote:
Okay but the rest of your POE is literally the three players that were voting you at the time. There is no way in hell you’re going to convince me there’s nothing fishy about that. Particularly after you had already stated that players tend to SR you. I can’t remember exactly if you proceed to disagree with RLotus on VPB while drunk immediately before or after that POE (I think it’s after), but just very clearly there’s something off about how you’re approaching this game I feel.In post 1215, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:
i assumed both GC and elements wouldnt flip scum thereIn post 1213, Andresvmb wrote:
My point is a bit different. I’m critiquing the construction of that POE you put out there. I don’t think there was much thought put into it, outside of grouping some players that are skeptical of your slot {BM, VPB, Datisi} [and c’mon they’re not all Scum that’s like impossible], and some easier slots to push given the game state in {Elements, GC}, though I suspect you couldn’t get a GC execution through (and maybe that’s the point).In post 1212, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:
honestly i was never even thinking in this direction bc theres nearly nothing to suggest that those 2 are partners with eachother.In post 1211, Andresvmb wrote:Not saying it can’t happen btw. But if they’re both not feeling pressure, they would avoid linking themselves together in the early game is my feeling. Unless they both want to power wolf (and that’s exhausting), I think it’s totally reasonable to assume they’re at least not Partners.- Reformed Toxic Player
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Then the best town POV thing to do is to occams razor it as outside of scumrange(like this is very hard for me to fake as scum with so many variables) - and sort it on a later date.
and like if i feel stilted - theres another recent town game where i felt the same way because I felt like I needed to be careful to not have my words used against me to tank my towncred where I was facing against FL/Raya and I could tell they were being manipulative - (Names on the List).
I know I know, self meta and all, but the more i play on here the more apparent the difference in my play as either alignment is clearer and I can prove it. (this does mean next time i roll scum its a much higher effort play with an uncomfortable style but hey lol)- Reformed Toxic Player
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the thing about a PoE with more players than there are scum - you ARE assuming some of them are town.In post 1223, Andresvmb wrote:
I think more often than not you would not as Town look at three players voting you early in Day 1 and place all three in the POE, particularly when they’re all active and explaining themselves. There’s no chance in hell I would ever assume myself (unless I was some sort of genius and I’m not) that they’re all Scum or that they all deserve to be in the POE. The fact that you immediately went against one of those reads is confirmation enough that after you saw the votes, you realized just how unrealistic that position was.In post 1219, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:I'm not following.
I was basically saying - look: there's probably scum on this wagon if my read is wrong on this initial 3.- Reformed Toxic Player
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yeah i did take a leap of faith when voting you to see what would happen. and? whats your point? townlean by no means means im going to stop examining your play and poke at suspicious stuff.In post 1227, ItalianoVD wrote:
So if that was your reason for voting me what changed? Doing a reeval makes no sense since you had already been townleaning me and if the so called contradiction was the thing you voted me for that didn’t change, so it doesn’t make sense to townread me. I feel like you were just doing things to do things imo, especially that readslist.In post 970, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:i already stated i had voted u for the contradiction from our scum pt in 799 and what u said in this game- Reformed Toxic Player
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lmao i legit forgot about this. my memory do be lackingIn post 1229, RLotus wrote:
On 786 RTP mentioned the stuff about his POE, and it looks like his scumread of BM started formulating on 787. The wagon on RTP didn't start until 799.In post 1223, Andresvmb wrote:
I think more often than not you would not as Town look at three players voting you early in Day 1 and place all three in the POE, particularly when they’re all active and explaining themselves. There’s no chance in hell I would ever assume myself (unless I was some sort of genius and I’m not) that they’re all Scum or that they all deserve to be in the POE. The fact that you immediately went against one of those reads is confirmation enough that after you saw the votes, you realized just how unrealistic that position was.In post 1219, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:I'm not following.
So, I don't really like this logic. In fact, it looks like the wagon on RTP could have built up in reaction to RTP's POE read.- Reformed Toxic Player
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reading back was i supposed to magically take them out of the PoE that was already in my head at the time?In post 1239, Andresvmb wrote:
So Koba throws suspicion towards those slots, they all vote for Koba, and Koba places them all in the POE they identify as the winning POE after, only to hard go back on their read of VPB, and you are defending the POE? Am I getting this right?In post 1237, RLotus wrote:
That is what you are saying here no?In post 1223, Andresvmb wrote:I think more often than not you would not as Town look at three players voting you early in Day 1 and place all three in the POE, particularly when they’re all active and explaining themselves.
-because this is how you are suggesting it.
also i'd like you to give more substantial thoughts about GC please.- Reformed Toxic Player
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i had quite clearly stated it was in reaction their suspicion growing when I started to fos certain slots -> slots at the time i was confident were scum. this is natural to think when you know scum would damage control ASAP if their partner suddenly starts getting PoE'd by a loud townie.In post 1243, Andresvmb wrote:
Okay but you’re fighting an argument I’m not making. I said those slots were skeptical of Koba. Not that the POE came about because they were voting Koba.In post 1241, RLotus wrote:I'm just saying I don't think the POE had anything to do with the votes on them. Why he changed his read on VPB, I don't know.- Reformed Toxic Player
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lolIn post 1251, Andresvmb wrote:
I already answered that once I’m caught up I’ll provide an opinion on GC when I have some time to ISO. I don’t see why I need to shift focus just yet.In post 1248, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:can you respond to the lotus + GC question andres.- Reformed Toxic Player
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to add on to this ,watching from the gy when u were just playing around as scum u were just straight up trying to stay townread and not offend and went for easy soft readsIn post 1257, RLotus wrote:
I didn't have nearly the aggression that game that I do this game, in fact my pushes were very soft, if you want to believe my self meta.In post 1250, Andresvmb wrote:I don’t think RLotus has demonstrated that at all to be totally honest. And what does being new have to do with anything? Some players can play Scum decently well. RLotus did a good job fooling people last game we played. They completely avoided being suspected aggressively and bussed effectively.
And my push on VPB makes no sense as scum. Just tunnel on a highly town read player, when I myself am quite town read. To tank my town cred even though it's unlikely for a VPB wagon to actually go through?- Reformed Toxic Player
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the andres part was included bc im very concerned with how much they're tunneled onto you and I and stuff that was ages ago and ignoring our explanations and just brushing it off - it was feeling during our conversation you and i were boxing andres in vibe wise.In post 1267, RLotus wrote:
VP + GC is something I considered because of the way GC was trying to cool me off of VP. If VP is town, I think it is highly likely that GC is town.In post 1258, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:vp/GC
Andre I'm having a hard time pinning down a read on. His reasoning is really good and when I argue with him he usually says something that really makes sense. Maybe he can do this as scum. I do think he on the wrong side of town tho. Well I know he is wrong in voting me. Overall, not sure.
andres is a strong player in general from what I have seen. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go < im looking through this rn to see if the vibes feel right there.- Reformed Toxic Player
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haha i regretted that decision at first dont you remember?In post 1271, ItalianoVD wrote:Unless Elements is just scum and RTP is good or bussing their partner again.
but it ended up working only because of the setup itself and how it worked - ya know that.
have you seen the reasoning I presented for why I think elements is town now? i think that they're just wrong town. GC feels more scummy and my theory that they were setting up to go from an elements lim to me feels plausible.- Reformed Toxic Player
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and then when u do hit scum d1 town just shits the bedIn post 1273, RLotus wrote:
Same kinda. I really hate missing on day 1 mainly because it feels like we will fall too behindIn post 1272, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:u know everytime i roll town i feel this enormous pressure to go 3/3 day 1 and it sucks- Reformed Toxic Player
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I was only pointing out the truth ? How is this agenda-y?In post 1276, ItalianoVD wrote:
This feels very agenda’y’In post 1104, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:I'd like to point out that GC's been extremely vague about reasoning and cannot ellaborate when pushed on and starts talking in circles or just reverts to other points, or just points out shallow things- Reformed Toxic Player
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In post 1102, Green Crayons wrote:i suspected you, i asked you to answer the Q you were ignoring, you said "why is this scummy", said you had answered the Q (you hadn't) and I was misrepping you, i explained why scummy, you said my reasons were BS and that you understood the FOSes on me.
all starts from Post 464 and takes like 10 posts for you to go "you suspect me?" to "you're suspicious"In post 1104, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:I'd like to point out that GC's been extremely vague about reasoning and cannot ellaborate when pushed on and starts talking in circles or just reverts to other points, or just points out shallow things
The above is just another scummy mischaracterization - forgets conveniently that they accused me of not pushing the game forward and is not using that point at all here. What changed?
They're basically gaslighting me trying to be vague about events bc theyre scum trying to weave a tapestry, not town trying to read genuinely .
it's just scum trying to discred someone guning for their partner
Their reads just REEK of someone who pick and chose ppl and made a read based on conveniencd. Townread the loud and active ppl, scumread the less loud (with the addition of the person who's loudly gunning for your head)
Someone please give me a sanity check like i feel confident here but i need a 3rd party opinion between this LOL i dont wanna be wrong here
heres context - i hate getting quoted out of context like that when the context is highly relevant.In post 1105, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:And if we apply the "pushing game forward " scumread logic - we can easily say GC is scum for not pushing the game forward. Their own reasoning- not mine.- Reformed Toxic Player
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