Mini 2206 - Deja Vu: Perpetual MELO IV - END!

[Kismet]

can you be more specific?

[Kismet]

She threw a bunch at nacho and then the wagon hits and “oh I’m not actually scumreading him”

i don't really think she ever really actually did this?

[Kismet]

happy to hear about all the pokes

hope y'all are well

[Kismet]

What do you mean?

don't think you're scum atm

[Kismet]

euuuuugh

my heart doesnt WANT THAT

- ydra

what DO you want?

you have an opportunity to seriously engage, get some thoughts in, game is at a crawl.

now is the time.

[Kismet]

on a skim though i'm fine w just killing mom if that's the move today

and i mean don't point to just this, it's not super enlightening, don't know what you're seeing w/o an explanation

[Kismet]

the only thing that is utterly off the table for me to do any reevaluation on whatsoever is my precious noddy

this is o/ to the end

[Kismet]

at the end of the day i mean, nothing's happened so i have nothing to even re-eval i guess

will continue to kick every rock until deadline but i am minding it

[Kismet]

But on the other I feel like we'd done a really good job boxing out attempts at it

i'm keeping in the back of my mind town attempting this, us shutting it down, and them giving up. it's not a great feeling to be having that happen but this _doesn't_ seem as much like tenet to me in a lot of those ways

granted game is smaller

[Kismet]

i know i made 855 before (and when i did i didn't realize at the time the post i was replying to was in response to a Q you'd asked; if she'd offered that umprompted, different story and what i said totally applies) but i am the smallest bit paranoid of skitter. that said, her takes are very good this game, she's seeing things the same way i see them, and often before i post about them, and i think her progression on DC was very good.

she's just not you level. and just can't ever be.

[Kismet]

honestly the way mena is playing around me is incredibly impressive if he's scum. he's taking everyone's read on me at face value and true, possibly just reacting to the fact that i'm untouchable, but doing so in a way that i feel like is trying to take that as a premise and solve elsewhere.

i can accept the fact that he's tonally grumpy about it because it went in the face of what he wanted to believe early game

[Kismet]

having a hard time seeing peta's opening as town no matter what nacho is

just seems like a very goal-oriented opening rather than a fact-finding one.

[Kismet]

what was bulge getting at in 997 / 1090 noddy ?

[Kismet]

although if nacho is scum peta is just absolutely dead meat next no questions asked

if nacho and mara are both town this still applies although to a lesser extent

if nacho is town and mara is scum, maybe i'll rethink peta

i think cakez / peta are potentially s/s

[Kismet]

i think the fact that cakez was on l&g so much when they were in the game is maybe a counterpoint to that

[Kismet]

i dunno the 912 - 914 progression is making me rethink that

maybe cakez is just town

[Kismet]

i have no idea what i'm doing

[Kismet]

I feel like I saw noticeably less scumhunting in his early warehouse iso

well i certainly wasn't looking for it at the time so you'd know better than me

[Kismet]

wait you were scum too that game lol

i just don't analyze my partners like that

[Kismet]

i wish we had like a single cop shot lol

[Kismet]

wondering about this mara positing nacho!town nm!scum

if they flipped in exactly that configuration i'd be hesitant about flipping her ever
if nm flipped town i'd be ok w/ just purporting her pushing a bad theory
if nm/nacho are both scum, well, i get paranoid this was a planned bus of nm by the team at large to grab cred early.

the fact that people are thinking about bussing not being as effective makes bussing more effective; that's just the nature of WIFOM

though, being on a lot of scumteams lately i will say that people overrate the fuck out of the amount of planning teams actually do, especially in a setup that has not gone to night yet and had very little if any pregame and is staffed by 4+ lurkfucks out of 12 players

i'm not sure this post had a point

[Kismet]

NM only has 10 posts, but what do you think about the fact that a lot of people are not only diverting away from that elimination, but the fact thats really the only reason nacho is getting eliminated?

i don't know how you read the game and come to this conclusion

[Kismet]

NM town.

probably meant noddy

[Kismet]

i'm still having a hard time seeing a mom-scum nacho-town world here

i feel like literally any other combo is more likely

[Kismet]

really. she's been interested in alternatives the entire time she's been in the game and has had so many opportunities to just give into the inertia forming and hop on, but hasn't.

she's purporting a theory i don't necessarily agree with, but her stances are consistent with it.

[Kismet]

i don't have like a glorious towncase for nacho or anything it just comes down to knowing him and the way he plays

i think i need more than that to have him have serious credence as your strongest townread at this point in the game.

you said earlier:

i don't think he makes 483 or 736 as scum),

EBWOP

i think it's really easy to make those kinds of posts as scum. the latter doesn't really offer anything except a promise, and if he's as self aware as he claims in the former then i don't really see why he wouldn't pull out stops there to make that kind of post in order to get townread for it. i feel like that's the kind of post i am utterly capable of faking as scum and i'm not that good at scum.

[Kismet]

also given that i am not willing to consider noddy as the scum in the townbloc because i know how noddy plays and i am telling you you're wrong:

why is vft scum? this is something i have been soliciting reasoning for for a while and i don't feel like i've gotten much out of anyone about it.

[Kismet]

like if your reasoning is meta then link a game?

anything

to make me see what you're seeing

[Kismet]

i am hypersensitive to the fact that i didn't listen to you about spiffeh in tenet. maybe that ultimately rolled off your back, but i wanted to bridge that gap in understanding

here you're just not saying anything

[Kismet]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... Fowl-Mafia

the game ended like literally a couple hours or so before i joined this one, the best way i have to explain it was that he was so bad in that one and i do not get a similar feeling here whatsoever, like i can quote posts and say "this is town" but i can't EXPLAIN it, really

fwiw i did just read the game, and i agree w/ you that he seems a lot terser in that game, although i'm not sure how i'd get to the point of just saying "this is due to difference in alignment" to the point that i'm comfortable enough with that take to call him my top read.

[Kismet]

Mara are you around?

[Kismet]

Bork I know you’re waiting snd going to talk to peta, but if you haven’t changed your mind by tonight please hammer. I’d rather not have the deadline scramble on my low access day.

yeah i got it. i'm trying to figure something out right this second though.

[Kismet]

that's what i was afraid of

[Kismet]

as much as i wish it was town 1, mafia 0, i believe you have an error there

[Kismet]

As a warning, it's going to be awhile before I read the game, and it will probably be very piecemeal. 3-4 days before I completely finish.

Where should I be voting?

at this point i'd really prefer a fresh unbiased view of the game, especially if you plan to catch up via reading the whole game anyway, than i would trying to color your impressions beforehand.

[Kismet]

I still mostly think Mara is town; i think her reaction to the nacho wagon is definitely the road not taken and she could've easily hopped on Nacho as a survivalist effort or made herself the 6th vote knowing i was basically going to hammer at deadline and wanted nacho more than i wanted her

peta was also the biggest driver on that wagon and it makes sense as scum if he was going to come in w/ the express purpose of defending nacho it was with the intent of creating a wagon on another townie

instead she said she'd rather take the no-elim - which as she correctly pointed out, isn't anti-town on D1

[Kismet]

Bork help me kill notmaf please

that's probably an option today, and if he flips scum i'd be even more certain that mara was town, but again we need to play around that slot to a certain extent and i'd like to see how a couple other slots play wrt that flip.

[Kismet]

Mena do you have any updated thoughts on VFT atm? I really wanted to pick Nacho's brain on this one late in the day

my current issue is that even if the rest of the living scum is all

{nm, bulge, cakez}
who are all people i'm not comfortable calling town right now (cakez i am conflicted on, i'll get back to that in a bit, but ultimately i don't think i have a good reason to townread here)

then someone i have at least some semblance of a townread on:

{noddy, infinity, salsa/iverson, vft, mara, and your slot toward the end of the day}

is wrong. I'm trying to figure out which slot that is.

[Kismet]

salsa/iverson in the pool you mentioned being the last one

maybe. my read there is definitely tonal and therefore subject to just being baseline wrong.

[Kismet]

Nachomamma8

(4): Venus Fly Trap, Infinity 324, Kismet, notscience

Leafeon and Glaceon

(2): Disaster Cartel,

Nachomamma8

SirCakez (1):

Leafeon and Glaceon

Momrangal (1): SirCakez
Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia
Disaster Cartel (1): Salsabil Faria

Not Voting (2): The Bulge, Momrangal

not a bad VC to look at more and honestly is probably a pretty good argument for DC not being scum considering how sticky that vote was for quite some time

[Kismet]

would be more telling though if that wagon ever got a 3rd vote

[Kismet]

A lot of it is me going back to my reads from yesterday and reevaluating with the flips we have now.

you think the entirety of the nacho wagon up until L-1 was town after reevaluation?

[Kismet]

(especially considering you think mom is scum?)

[Kismet]

i guess i didn't realize salsa joined that wagon too

why does salsa slot in particular look worse after that flip

[Kismet]

I'm thinking about how she spent so much time attacking DC but ended up on Nacho anyways

i'll consider this. i don't think it's a bad point although would obviously be stronger w/ a DC scum flip

[Kismet]

it's more about at what point in the game day did she switch

because at some point someone's gotta declare a DC push as not viable for the day and move, regardless of alignment

[Kismet]

even considering that potential point, i'm still keeping cakez at arm's length right now.

VOTE: Not Mafia

also
what the hell is this?

if Nacho flips scum then we have a great scum pool of (Mom, Peta, DC,

NM

) to work with

is somewhat problematic cogdis for me and doesn't allow for mara being town who didn't want to vote nacho

it's even worse considering this is essentially the scum pool cakez has anyway (or at least cakez is still scumreading all of these slots)

trajectory on mara in particular is very sloppy to me.

[Kismet]

Her vote seems like total fluffballs though

i mean how was it really any different from what you did?

[Kismet]

Ok I trust you + notscience on this.

VOTE: Nacho

this i think has the same kind of energy to it as the salsa post you're referencing

[Kismet]

i guess my big point here is that people who think mara is scum should either be

1) pushing mara, "hot amazeballs scum counterwagon to flipped town"
2) finding who in the fuck was scum pushing nacho, which mara built up as a counterwagon to

going on nm to me, as someone who thinks mara is scum out of the gate is ?????????

[Kismet]

The plot thickens

was this you reversing your NM read?

[Kismet]

Iverson feels towny

i'm ok w/ the slot so far due to predecessor and pressure although we're in different spots about noddy's alignment right now

that said if it is who i think it might be then this might be my first time actually having to legitimately read them

i'll leave it up to them if they want to have that convo

[Kismet]

Part of this is that I intentionally remove the tonal markers that make townreading me effortless in other games. The focus is purely on getting the best reads I can as town and in testing very specific strategies/unfavorable scenarios as scum, rather than worrying too much about carrying those reads through or in winning outright.

i'm

super excited

to be a part of this

Spoiler:

anyway i personally agree w/ you about not_mafia in that the ramp up in activity seems purely reactionary to the "srs-mode" pressure that came out of the gate today

[Kismet]

I don't want to have an ideological debate midgame. You can take it up with me in postgame if you find my play on this account unsatisfactory in its drive to win, Kismet.

i had a smiley face and everything though

[Kismet]

aight, mea culpa. didn't mean anything by it.

[Kismet]

even considering that potential point, i'm still keeping cakez at arm's length right now.

VOTE: Not Mafia

also
what the hell is this?

if Nacho flips scum then we have a great scum pool of (Mom, Peta, DC,

NM

) to work with

is somewhat problematic cogdis for me and doesn't allow for mara being town who didn't want to vote nacho

it's even worse considering this is essentially the scum pool cakez has anyway (or at least cakez is still scumreading all of these slots)

trajectory on mara in particular is very sloppy to me.

I don't understand what you mean.

to be more clear then:

if nm is scum to you why are you so affronted by her voting him?

what does nacho flipping town mean for your pool? it seemed like you were predicating a lot of your mom scumread on nacho also being scum (1516, 1517) and more in general that pool being scum around nacho being scum, but he flipped town and your reads are exactly the same and therefore i'm having a harder time seeing that thought process as legitimate

[Kismet]

nacho's wagon obviously predated hers so his wasn't, like, a *response* to scum-her's, so that narrative for scum-her just doesn't even make sense

i mean peta came in angling to defend nacho, something that i think we can both agree is oblique to his wincon given they've both flipped.

When looked at in that light, he may have just wanted to pocket nacho thinking nacho would wiggle out of the elim inevitably, or really just decided nacho was town before receiving his scum pm and decided just to roll with it and see where it look him.

Everything downstream of that likely wasn't particularly planned, which means mara could be whatever, although i feel like trying to counterwagon another townie there has very little risk compared to the amount of reward it potentially incurs, but we get into WIFOM there and meh.

more salient is that i think mara's own reaction to the nacho wagon just seemed really town to me and i'm having a hard time letting go of that.

[Kismet]

if there's one player i absolutely do not fucking trust myself to meta correctly, ever, it's not_mafia.

low average content means less data and having it easy to tailor your playstyle to whatever people are expecting from you at the time

[Kismet]

i'm not really liking iverson thus far

~ skitter

what's wrong w/ iverson thus far?

[Kismet]

I got the criticism Kismet but anything about my integrity is just...touchy in ways that should be obvious given how much heart and soul I put into the game. This account does not exist to troll or half-ass.

i really was just poking fun at the way you phrased it. i did not mean to imply that anything you'd done was looked like it was low-effort and i apologize for the bad communication, truly.

[Kismet]

i'm gonna be honest i'm not fully sure i get your townread of mara

just would be flabbergasted if scum ever thought to make 1725
and just the general consistent, unflappable sentiment around that

it's not a flashy read, but it's not really a weak one either. mara easily could've been the n1 scum flip here if scum.

it's exactly why i was checking to see if she was around EoD yesterday - i wanted to see what she'd do.

[Kismet]

it's in the rules, it's basically a deadline extension

[Kismet]

ok i'm not really sure i see it being particularly townsided

i think the point i was trying to make is it was a vehicle to take the game back to square one w/o an elim and get more time w/o removing someone she thought was town, when the only other option would've likely been her

i don't know why she used that exact phrase either.

[Kismet]

re: noddy read:

more presence/confidence than just tone to me

he doesn't go toe to toe w/ nacho the whole game and break out the whole cobra kai schtick as scum.

i think posts like 1635 are things that legitimately affect his psyche as town that i don't think he's quite got the handle on to fake as scum

he maybe gloms onto me like he has this game as scum but i feel like he's always a little bit afraid that i'm going to catch on.

THAT SAID:
i don't mind your push as i think it is more likely to make his true alignment known over time.

[Kismet]

r.e. iverson i disliked his push on you and his one on cakez. idk who he is but if the two of you usually clash that is something i will bear in mind. i still don't like the cakez push tho

rereading this push from iverson -> noddy today i'm not sure how i feel yet

on one hand, i do kinda think noddy's jump from nm to someone else was poorly explained at the time, and if you scumread nm independently of that, then i can kinda see this take
on the other, i do feel like a lot of the push is getting stuck on noddy being vague or opaque or even lazy in the moment a la 1882, which i don't think is a very good reason to scumread someone.

[Kismet]

especially since the biggest proponent of her wagon is peta

i'll admit i've been thinking about why peta got flipped of all people but i have no insight into the level of planning that went into that decision
for all i know peta just yoloed the hammer and they decided because of that to get him out of the game
but yes, there's possibility for just massive WIFOM here i agree. 1766 still mostly echoes my thoughts on that

i still feel like mara could've taken a different angle easily as scum, but your point that nacho was much more likely than her to be the flip is something i acknowledge

[Kismet]

something I wanted to ask your opinion on was whether he was legitimately trying to sort me yesterday. I don't think he was: in the lack of questions, bite back, and in using my open invitation for questions to immediately front run the concern by trying to explain his read on me instead. Yesterday I thought it was +scum. Now I'm less convinced.

I don't believe that his objective at the time you were grilling him was sorting you, no.
but he didn't like come back w/ any kind of fabricated read that the end of the transaction, either
I don't really see an issue w/ 1983 though, considering it was in response to you and kind of at the buzzer before he had to bail

[Kismet]

ig
idk. i just don't view it as townie as you.

that's fine. it's based on a gut assumption on my part that i can't really dig any deeper into. if shit gets weird i'll revisit.

[Kismet]

i still kinda worry that if nm is town we're just like, fucking boned

[Kismet]

that said it might be what we need to move the game to a different state

i don't fucking know

[Kismet]

Like he’s scummy for him comparatively and there’s also enough +town slots that he’s also just v likely scum via PoE

FWIW i agree with the latter part of this and that's why I'm not kicking up a fuss about it

[Kismet]

sheeped bork

trust me i have led many a town off a cliff

[Kismet]

i will say that if both bulge and nm flip scum then DC is probably just super town

[Kismet]

tbh the only way this really looks bad for them is if bulge is scum and nm isn't

[Kismet]

Bulge has made scummy posts and nacho wanted them dead too

why do they do any of the shit on the last page if both potential wagons are on scum

[Kismet]

PEdit: one is scummy by posting and PoE and one is only scummy by PoE? I don't get what's so difficult to understand here

is this to me?

[Kismet]

nvm i don't think it is

[Kismet]

noddy do you have any history of bulge acting like this before? because this is just not jibing w/ me on any experience i've ever had w/ him (which admittedly isn't that much)

[Kismet]

That’s not to say it’s impossible that skitt’s pulling some galaxy brain play and she’s good enough that she probably could fake that interaction with me and pocket me, but I think that overall makes the game harder for her to win not easier and so it’s unlikely

it does to me

and my worst nightmare here is that you two are S-S

but i don't think that's the world we live in

[Kismet]

no sorry i didn't quote it somehow, was responding to "does that make sense?"

[Kismet]

i think it should be pretty obvious im flying solo this game.

be virtue of your interactions w/ others or theirs w/ you?

[Kismet]

by*

[Kismet]

but idk i feel like im coming off very aloof and detached from the game as a whole, and I just don't see how my behaviour could come from a scum slot.

don't really feel like this has to be AI
if it is then it's indicative you're an alignment you don't like playing as vs the other

but i mean there's more to it then that
if the gamestate is in a place where it behooves you to do nothing, that can be a very viable scum strat. not saying it makes you scum, but i just don't see where you're coming from when you say it makes you town

[Kismet]

probably out-ish for the night but i am mulling over:

if nm flips town, who am i wrong on in:

{noddy, infinity, vft, dc, mara}

because i literally have to be wrong on someone in that list at that point.

[Kismet]

What? I'm out of range already? What a shame.

this to me?

[Kismet]

But like I know he got lost in tenet

i forgot bulge was even _in_ tenet and then i realize it was your slot

[Kismet]

Illicit

most of my baseline is from illicit

that game was MUCH faster than this one but he still seemed like he had a lot to offer there, and really got some good shots in on me early.

checking very briefly to see if he was under pressure in that game and I don't think he really was; even so 1089 from this game is fucking bizarre

[Kismet]

I'm really confused why Mara thinks she is likely to die if town

me too but this is another thing i'm not sure she does as scum.
i mean, i wouldn't.
at least, i'd feel like a giant fraud for even going there.

[Kismet]

He was cleared by d2 in illicit bork, you don't remember how he started lurking it out because he got disengaged from it?

yeah, i remember. game was in a weird spot by that point, but i do remember.

[Kismet]

I was looking at nacho's wall and he had some interesting points WRT mena

i mean my early game stance on mena is what it is too, and it's possible he just adjusted to throw me off,

but at this point i feel like vft and that slot are more likely aligned than not considering their interaction is starting to approach mutual trust, and every time skitter posts i just get warmfuzzy this game not just in how she's posting but i think her content is legitimately good.

if bulge is scum and nm is town then maybe; again i don't know why DC does this weird shit about bulge vs nm if he is scum w/ nm in any capacity (i guess unless he's looking for me to make observations like this but that was very in the moment of him then)

[Kismet]

It was a joke since I was not in the list, yes.

that was the list of people i'm mostly townreading, to be clear, and you're kinda floating just barely outside it

[Kismet]

i think the biggest weakness of my towngame is that i have basically no capacity to figure out who is townreading me for bad reasons

p-edit:

But I think its crazy to think the first five votes were all town.

i get it, but it's been known to happen and trying to solve that puzzle is not something i can make any headway on without like an assload of fips

[Kismet]

How do you think scum approached nacho?

very good Q.

my first inclination would be in the manner that cakez (accepting a sheep), salsa (being like maaaaaan i dunno i guess let's see) or bulge (i'm not paying attention sure nacho sounds great) did

infinity in particular i think maintained "i've got my gut read on nacho and i'm not terribly interested in what any of you are fueling that fire with" which seemed town to me at the time.

[Kismet]

Mara's nacho stance was she was trying to argue against his wagon without ever calling him town

i think she implied she thought he was town with calling the attach on nacho a chainsaw, imo.

[Kismet]

like bulge goes and says he's obviously not paired w/ anyone this game

that's actually more how i feel about mara. she's not here to make any friends.

[Kismet]

i kinda feel like i'm the only one really sticking my neck out for mara though, which, shrug, it's possible i'm not seeing something everyone else is

[Kismet]

I mean yeah, I just think for someone so adamant nacho was town she did fuckall to stop the wagon (granted she is going to blame me and I do agree I am at least part to blame) but like even peta did more lol

i don't necessarily think that makes her scum, especially if she didn't feel she was being listened to

[Kismet]

this is getting to the point where i'm worrying that i'm making excuses to feed my own confbias though.

i need to remember to flip the dial from send to receive a little more often.

[Kismet]

so if you wanna drunk post with me lemme know good night all

wed is a good day to drink for me

[Kismet]

This is a bit authoritarian of me but to incentivize a slowdown and show my displeasure with the current focus:

VOTE: The Bulge

This is E-2, AKA effective E-1

i don't particularly like this post.

[Kismet]

can you elaborate? I thought it was decent

I will answer this, but I don't want to yet.

[Kismet]

i feel a little better after 2211.

and again, gut:

I don't personally play like described there, but being upfront about your intentions is good in that in the absence of that I think potentially this sort of behavior can be used to force reactions you want so that you can control the interaction, which to me seems like it has more utility for scum that town.

Whereas at this point you've kind of reduced it to "do something" which is fine

[Kismet]

For anyone still curious, or in spite of those not, I am Prism.

full disclosure: one of the things that made you so easy to pick out is posts like 1880 which i found similar in verbiage to the language you were using in ffery's newbie like "fine voting this slot" [that i actually know is town] when trying to secure floo elim late in the game (i'd have to go back and find it at this point)

It's a weak tell at best, but it's in the back of my mind at the moment.

[Kismet]

ngl i've kinda already moved into sleepy drunk phase

[Kismet]

a lot of people in this game are spending way too much time on their own slot

[Kismet]

"this looks towny on the surface, but reads like scum trying to act town", I think it's natural to conclude with some sort of 'null' read, or else talk through why you make the decision you do.

I don't do this, this read is scum much more often than rand

can you rephrase?

[Kismet]

ok, i didn't know if you were calling bulge scum for making that post or not

[Kismet]

I think that was actually towny for me

i was inclined to agree on first read

[Kismet]

who are these people? besides Mom

bulge, nm/dc to an extent

people just seem really reactive this game.

[Kismet]

well, this essentially forces me to develop nothing but tonal reads on people because the goals they are trying to work toward are pro (whatever alignment they happen to be)

[Kismet]

noddy, it's been close to 24 hours later - what's your overall stance on Bulge?

Because Prism is saying exactly what I'm thinking in 2307

--------

It's day 2 and I don't even know what I'm waiting for at this point.

I feel like game has settled into a lower energy state and generally my stances on slots like nm and bulge is that either or both could be scum and I just don't really know how to validate which is better than the other but even worse is that I feel like it is a foregone conclusion that, even if town, neither is going to make a serious attempt to change my mind. I don't know what to make of the big switch over from nm -> bulge other than it maybe lends credence to my townblock not being as good as i thought it was. But I don't see anything individually in any of noddy/infinity/vft that is making me want to take any action on that.

I wish mara were more engaged; would go a long way into firming up that read.

I wonder if I'm being too easy on DC; everything ydra does just makes me want to kill the slot, and I dunno. there's still 4 scum alive and I feel like this is one of the reads I could just be wrong on, no matter what my read happens to be at the time.

I wonder if I'm being too hard on Prism. I'm sure he'd disagree . Ultimately his content since my "I'm paranoid" post has not bothered me and I think he's pushing Bulge for good reasons.

just random thoughts as I deliberate on what to do.

[Kismet]

shrug

[Kismet]

i mean a good portion of players are never going to be out of their whatever-range, and outside of noddy i have no ability to read anyone in this game like such.

[Kismet]

yo that's L-1

[Kismet]

wait i'm stupid nm

[Kismet]

if there's one thing i think i am sheepable on this game it is that noddy is town, yes.

[Kismet]

this is the weirdest "counterwagon" situation i've ever seen in that:

1) all the people voting bulge right now have voted not_mafia earlier in the same gameday despite nothing really happening
2) i have all of those people at least north of null

I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TO DO WITH THIS INFO

[Kismet]

ok i lied i don't think VFT voted NM

[Kismet]

Like not townreading me on your own time is okay but if you're asking me zero and interfering with me zero then uhhhh

don't feel like i've really felt the need to prompt you for anything throughout your catchup phase, or at least have been comfortable w/ your ability to generate content w/o me doing it

what makes think n_m is considerably more likely to flip scum than bulge right now? cause I don't feel like I have anywhere near a good feeling about that conundrum

[Kismet]

@kismet can you talk to me about why you think DC is town?

frankly i get a different answer every time i go back and look at that slot. let me see if i can find a summary of the last time I did.

I still feel like the reaction to nm/bulge suggests a world where if nm and bulge are both scum that DC is town just because of how vehemently and instantly they reacted to the switchover.

[Kismet]

lilith, i think mena looked genuine in the page 56 range (that is what my 1392 is about), other than that and 1664 i don't really have much. I'm proxying the read a little to skitter who seems comfortable w/ mena.

I need to reread the stuff that happened right around 1352 - this is when peta started the mom wagon, which DC was initially opposed to, culminating in 1413 when they hopped on.

What are your thoughts?

[Kismet]

this would be better if i knew what mom was. if mom is town DC looks a little worse, although they got on right after you did which kind of supports the "I'm lookiing just for a compromise that isn't nacho" angle which could come from town, even if mara is also town.

[Kismet]

And at this point he's intentional not to demonstrate differently just in case people find the shift scummy

yep, I agree w/ that assessment.

[Kismet]

also lillith: do you feel that there is scum in the bloc that voted nacho initially d1 (me/noddy/infinity) as skitter does?

do you think i am wrong on mara?

[Kismet]

prism if you are up for any priority ISOing i'd appreciate it on VFT and DC the most i think. i'm not in a huge rush other than the votes are starting to pile up

[Kismet]

I can't read The Bulge despite him deciding to play like a 5th grader at a summer camp but I think NM is again very intentionally not giving anything or interacting much, ie. Waiting to hammer or get flipped

Not in a trolling way

Yeah, I still think I agree with this. I think I also want to flip NM today.

[Kismet]

if NM were to flip town at this point or bulge flip scum, i'd probably feel better about noddy/infinity/vft block overall (my strongest TRs over the game)

if nm flipped scum, it's probably neutral wrt to those three.

If bulge flips town, and especially if nm flips scum later, there's a major problem w/ my reads somewhere

[Kismet]

also i don't know what the fuck to do w/ cakez

[Kismet]

Persona 5 Royalllllll

dude this shit is not a good reason to deprive yourself of P5R. I'll be here in the morning.

[Kismet]

disliking the individual Cakez/notsci pushes

i am hugely taken in by "your strength of read is not commensurate with the things that have actually happened" arguments that skitter makes because it's often what I am also thinking, and that is how I felt about how you dealt w/ noddy out of the gate, at least a little.

Maybe you're right on the tone stuff being her scum superpower, but I really felt like skitter was excited to find out I was me, because it made her job of reading me very very easy and I thought that came out in her 479

[Kismet]

I'm not sure this is going to be super productive but I'm going to try anyway: this is my interpretation of what bulge is getting hung up on:

Peta didn't want to point to examples because the townies were all transparently town and he didn't want to sow paranoia on a buddy

(that I also believe is in the townbloc)

. If you want I can argue this point with you until I can convince you I believe it

Does this track w/ everyone so far?

[Kismet]

"believing that the bloc is all town and that peta didn't want to name individuals from it is inherently a contradiction"

noted. i want to see what bulge has to say.

[Kismet]

bulge what exactly is the perspective slip here and what does it imply about the townblock in your opinion?

[Kismet]

so you think the perspective slip is about her own slot and everyone else in the bloc is actually town?

[Kismet]

VFT if not

VFT if infinity is town?

[Kismet]

I'm just trying to suss out opinions about things. Does VFTs alignment depend on infinity's to you?

[Kismet]

I'm going to be honest: I don't think "infinity made 1768 because, even though she was townreading kistmet/noddy/vft, she still subconsciously knew she was scum" to be a very convincing argument.

i myself didn't really understand the point you were trying to make here until very recently and i think it's plausible infinity didn't either considering she doesn't consider what she posted to be a contradiction. I don't think she's trying to run you in circles, she just really doesn't understand the point you're making.

I'm not sure where else to go with this particular point. What other opinions have evolved since you made your earlier reads post?

[Kismet]

i don't think it matters who

i

think the scum in the bloc is. infinity presented very strongly that she believed the bloc to be all town. she then presented even stronger that she believed peta was protecting a buddy within the bloc. when pressed about this inconsistency, she flailed.

i actually would like to hear infinity's final word on this

[Kismet]

infinity i think 2465 sums it up.

[Kismet]

i'm not sure i'm following

[Kismet]

the only scum motivation i can really see here in infinity presenting this contradiction as such is that infinity thought the inclusion of that clause would make the argument hold more water to get prism off her back

and i don't really feel like it does to me.

[Kismet]

part of me feels like 2459 was an attempt to recover from a misstep made in 2458

if infinity is town, it really shouldn't at all imply that vft is scum due to anything related to 1768

just don't know if that was a defensive move or if it was just a clarification =/

[Kismet]

there are 4 scum here

who the fuck are they voting for

ok it was bound to happen

[Kismet]

Not_Mafia (4): Disaster Cartel, SirCakez, Momrangal, Iverson
The Bulge (3): Venus Fly Trap, notscience, Infinity 324

this is my conundrum: my townreads are all voting the same way

last time this happened scum did not flip

nobody seems to give that much of a shit about it

it's not even that scum isn't voting, just nothing is moving except bulge's move against infinity

[Kismet]

Disaster Cartel, SirCakez, Momrangal, Iverson

are people in this list scumreading each other?
are you worried this wagon is on town?
talk to me

[Kismet]

bulge what is your stance on NM at this moment?
NM same Q to you on bulge

[Kismet]

it is exceedingly weird that neither of you has any opinion on the validity of the competing wagon

[Kismet]

You keep mentioning that scum was trying to bus yesterday and today but you also overlooked the point that cakes was avoiding NM like the the plague yesterday and was more than eager to get on that today. Cakes was more interested in getting rid of Nacho than he was on of getting rid of NM, which Imo makes sense from scum cakes

I agree w/ this assessment, but I'm curious as to if you think it's more likely to make NM scum, and why

[Kismet]

bork are u still townreading mom btw?

~ skitter

i don't know. i don't think there's anything really wrong w/ her takes so to speak but she's just not around often enough for me to evolve my earlier take. I will point out that she never claimed she wasn't being underwhelming, just that she doesn't view that as AI for herself.

I don't really know where to go from here other than just to flip someone.

What do you think NM flips at this point?

[Kismet]

I have been very, very open about struggling to read The Bulge and while they're on the lower end suggesting I actually am pushing them with the intent/hope of getting them flipped is flat out not paying attention, this is not the first time you made this mistake, and you have not even tried to fit the pieces together even if they were fundamentally not mistakes.

I don't really see why this is scummy

[Kismet]

like i feel like i can keep this up for another week and 80% of the game just posts enough to prod dodge plus and i'm left w/ the same decision i have now w/ no new info

[Kismet]

VOTE: bulge

wouldn't mind watching the world burn a little bit atm

[Kismet]

Being honest my attitude towards this game is one of arrogant disgust and I want out

with respect i don't think i've ever heard you _not_ say this about a game i've been in with you

[Kismet]

I mean, i think you're an awesome player and you've definitely put me through the ringer at least once as scum

it's just harder than i'd like to find lasting friends this game

[Kismet]

that is what it is i suppose.

[Kismet]

it's fine. the good games are lightning in a bottle.

[Kismet]

But am I the only one who wants to know how you can go from “holy shit I’m going to die if what I think is right” to “I forgot I’m in a game”

i'll admit that wasn't my favorite post of hers

[Kismet]

noddy where do you come out on this whole bulge v infinity thing

[Kismet]

having not won a game other than ffery dragging my posthumous ass across the finish line recently, i would not mind winning this one!

[Kismet]

i don't really know where else to go with this day w/o some participation of some others who have been hanging back

[Kismet]

i think she's very scummy and i kinda hate the way she's approaching this

i would probably want the nm flip if you want to seriously look at mom

[Kismet]

i could see mara being S with bulge and nm being T, actually. i don't fucking know lol.

[Kismet]

i guess if mara is scum her plan to come in and call out everyone attacking T nacho (confirmed) for getting them off scum NM but then just attacking NM the whole time seems...ill advised?

[Kismet]

unless she's playing the longest of games

[Kismet]

do you really think there is a world of nm-scum mara-scum

that seems just tough to swallow for me

[Kismet]

i think VFT looks town throughout this entire interaction

[Kismet]

am going back and still like mara's 1486 it every way to me seems like the legit defense of nacho that peta never gave

[Kismet]

I feel like you wanted some response to this but there's nothing for me to really respond to.

i wasn't expecting one, just thinking out loud.

[Kismet]

it only really makes sense to me if mara is also town

[Kismet]

noddy i feel like the fact that cakez was super eager to jump off scum L&G onto mom the second you did is fairly decent argument for S cakez T mara as well

[Kismet]

or at the very least not S cakez S mara

[Kismet]

cakez just seems like incapable of a holistic view of the game

there is no trajectory between 913 (nacho's cases are good and i want to elim in mom/dc) and 1305 that i can see

[Kismet]

what is that in reference to?

[Kismet]

don't exactly have any analysis to go w/ this observation but cakez and bulge have both been somewhat consistently mutually townreading each other

[Kismet]

rereading bulge/infinity shenanigans

2481 from infinity just oozes frustration to me and is really cementing that read

[Kismet]

like not frustrated in a "you caught me" way - that wouldn't lead to the clarifying questions that follow

frustrated in that bulge is (potentially deliberately) not getting her points

[Kismet]

*nods*

i'm just not seeing VFT or Infinity (or you) as scum and nothing is changing my view on that

we're eliming comfortably in PoE with what i feel is a good wagon comp

if this is wrong again i will have an absolute breakdown on D3, but i mean, that's what i signed up for playing this setup

[Kismet]

i like when people read things

any other thoughts?

[Kismet]

If I show up again tonight yeet me out the window

Spoiler:

[Kismet]

this fucking game

[Kismet]

yeah you deserve it after that

[Kismet]

whatever i'm the fuck out of here i can't deal w/ this shit right now lol

[Kismet]

<3 even if you're scum

[Kismet]

neither do i

[Kismet]

i guess we'll fucking find out huh

[Kismet]

well i feel like a fucking jackass

[Kismet]

This is one of those games I’m dreading reading the dead pt

this is right on the money i think

[Kismet]

what are you trying to accomplish at the current point in time?

[Kismet]

I'm lost. I had assumed that one of Iverson/DC was going to get sacced last night due to my vote cascading into a double switch almost immediately. I still feel like there is scum in there. If NM had been town iverson probably looks worse here, but in this universe he is right that nm just quickhammers.

I still think cakez looks bad and the vote on nm seems bussy.

Dunno. This has obviously not been my best work up to this point.

[Kismet]

mom still doesn't look bad to me but like I'm willing to basically entertain anything from anyone at this point to get to a better spot

[Kismet]

{Cakez/Prism/DC} i have no idea

if not them then who

[Kismet]

You think the Bulge wagon was all town while the entire scumteam begged to flip NM? Not even getting into DC/my end of day

eh, fair.

i'll revisit mom like i said but she's done nothing but tunnel scum all game

maybe for bad reasons i guess.

[Kismet]

actually think about Momrangal rather than trust other people's reads

yes please

[Kismet]

Also w/ 10 players total I'm pretty sure you're missing a scum there

it's 5-3

[Kismet]

ffery just boofchoofed the vc #s

[Kismet]

i don't even bother w/ going down that kinda thought process anymore for anyone

but definitely not for you

[Kismet]

bbl

[Kismet]

hypothetical cakez town world:

{mom, prism, ??}

irrespective of this:
I have to reexamine VFT too as much as I don't want to. Was very on board w/ nm being scum (not just, "dunno") but went nowhere near that wagon at any point.

[Kismet]

i'm not sure why 593 has to be an S-S interaction in a bubble

[Kismet]

ok then i don't know what you're doing i guess?