Mini Normal 2216 | Screaming | Post-game!

[humaneatingmonkey]

Roaming Detective is not a claim that comes from scum on the spot, especially newer scum.

What comes from scum on the spot, especially newer scum?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Seanzie is obvtown

[humaneatingmonkey]

I can't follow you with this one, nomnomnom

[humaneatingmonkey]

Gut is saying Seanzie is town right now

[humaneatingmonkey]

I will later

[humaneatingmonkey]

Seanzie, how did I become your top townread over nomnomnom?

[humaneatingmonkey]

At first I thought it was scum agenda, but then as I engaged with you, I could tell that your agenda was town trying to get their scumread elim'd agenda. Also, while your original case had holes in it, once I actually talked to you, it was clear your read on Boxxy had substance.

What made you flip your reads from scum agenda to town agenda? What were the holes in my original case? What made it clear that my read had substance?

[humaneatingmonkey]

her whole "I have a scumtell on Cyrus, and I'm going to talk a lot about it but not share it" left a very bad taste in my mouth, it did nothing but distract the thread, so I'm not as confident about Nom as I am about you.

why does it make you lean that behavior as scum if cyrus flipped scum anyway?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't see why neither nom or hem got killed. They controlled two insta wagons on d1. Scum either wanted them to push box today or one of them is scum and pocketed the other.

We were both townreading Salsabil, and Kuyoku scumreads Salsabil.

It was either a setup for Salsabil elim, or it's Salsabil.

I'm thinking we elim Salsabil now to see alignment, then elim boxxy Day 3 if Salsabil is town, then elim A50 Day 4 if boxxy is scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Kuyoku suspected sean and died randomly

There are multiple levels to this, so why do you prefer this narrative specifically? Kuyoku also suspected Salsabil and died seemingly randomly.

[humaneatingmonkey]

No one in scum team would expect that the first push in game is the one which will deliver elimination. It is reading game backwards.

What does this mean

[humaneatingmonkey]

Almost50 claims that his Novice Psychologist role works well with boxxy's Roaming Detective, and that's why he thinks boxxy is town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Cyrus felt the pressure. That could throw off his usual game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Try

[humaneatingmonkey]

This might not necessarily the best mechanical play, but boxxy being scum is a confident read that I have.

If I can establish a TvS relationship with Salsabil and boxxy, I might go with Salsabil. Otherwise, I'm very happy with a boxxy elimination.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Reads and stances don't matter. It's how they got there that makes a difference.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'll re-read so I can be double-sure I'm going with boxxy or Salsabil

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't yet. I haven't read deeper through Salsabil.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why not Dwlee? That's not hard theater at all. It's not even theatrical.

[humaneatingmonkey]

It was a fluffy exchange, not game-related, and early game. Not hard at all.

[humaneatingmonkey]

What would Almost50 be as scum?

[humaneatingmonkey]

My gutsolve right now:

1 scum in Salsabil or boxxy.
boxxy and Almost50 has the same alignment.
If boxxy is town, the last scum is MaxTheFox or Kerset.

[humaneatingmonkey]

What is being suggested though is that at the beginning of the game, scum!Sean immediately pushed Cyrus, and then Salsa and Cyrus counter bussed him, and the day culminated in Cyrus getting hard bussed by both Sean and Salsa. Calling each of the scum buddies scum to start the game just seems like way more attention than scum should want.

Why not? Getting the towncred of "nailing the scum early" is something one scum would want. And if they were superficial or TMI-y about it, a case could be made that they're likely scum bussing.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why am I scum, Bambi Jay, other than the fact that I'm pushing boxxy?

[humaneatingmonkey]

the scum were informed of the existence of the psychiatrist.

we would have gotten a hard counterclaim

[humaneatingmonkey]

Ah I see. I thought you were talking about a scumteam of A50 and boxxy being informed of psychologist.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Yes, Kerset, you can check it out that Kuyoku suspects Salsabil as well. You should check it out.

Thanks for answering my questions.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Doing a re-read now.

VOTE: Seanzie Weird to conclude that Cyrus is wolf and everyone else who has posted is town at post #26.

[humaneatingmonkey]

UNVOTE:

I'm trying to re-read.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Consider this pseudoE-1

[humaneatingmonkey]

I enjoy playing both town and scum. I like gambiting a lot as either alignment. I also tend to go very hard to see how people react, but will stop and take a step back to re-evaluate often so that I don't get too confbias-y with my pushes or clears.

Sean, what happened to this player? I haven't seen him in this game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

nomnom, I have been re-reading, and I can share it now but I'm still on an early page. But with what I have, I'm good with Seanzie now and I think it's unlikely that Salsabil is Cyrus' partner.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Sean vs Cyrus
• #42 is tonally off and too defensive for the subject matter. I'm not sold that he's angry as he explained in #49. My impression is that there's a possibility he's putting a performance on with a scum partner (Seanzie).
• #51 eggs on nomnomnom against Seanzie. If Cyrus like distancing, this is a distancing moment. Could also be Cyrus trying to get a Seanzie miselim.
• #56 is tonally okay from Seanzie, but not outside fakeable for an experienced player.
• #76 and #83 solidifies that this is scum theater. Who gets an emotional reaction from being called wolf in mafia? The fact that he calls him scum multiple times and hasn't voted until #110 speaks magnitude on this interaction.

Salsabil vs Cyrus
• #50 gives me a strong "anti-TMI" impression. Salsabil would have seen what the case against Cyrus was clearer, because she would have known that Cyrus is scum. Also, I have the impression that #54 is a genuine response coming from Cyrus appealing to town. So this is a point against Salsabil and Cyrus being partners.

Scum
Seanzie
• Weird to conclude that Cyrus is wolf and everyone else is town at post #26.
• Seanzie strengthens his townread on nomnomnom at #52. My impression is that it's a weird conclusion to make when someone's trying to elim you, if you are town. He hasn't even sorted through nomnomnom's motivations yet. Therefore, I think there's a possibility that it's an actual effort to pocket nomnomnom.

Town
Dwlee99
• #37, #55, Dwlee99 demonstrates in his posting someone who has been trying to sort the slots at a reasonable capacity that he can as town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

We need more of MaxTheFox today

[humaneatingmonkey]

Before we commit to Seanzie

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm combined bodyguard hider (or whatever it is called)

Weren't you told?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Not a chance, and that's why this is the best slot to eliminate right now.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I would think a PR would know what his role card is, but okay. I want to hammer.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Verbatim, Seanzie, what was your role, and why didn't you do it verbatim in the first place.

[humaneatingmonkey]

It's a safe hammer, but I regret that I didn't have more MaxTheFox who I think has legit scum equity.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Y'all are like... REALLY bad at this game.

We elimmed scum D1 what are you talking about

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Seanzie Okay let's see Paul Allen's card

[humaneatingmonkey]

After hammering Seanzie, I realized how much of an irrational move that was. I should have waited for more days, but I got excited. Regardless, I was 100% convinced that he was fakeclaiming and I believed that he was the right elim for the day. It sucks that I'm wrong, but I'm willing to live with that.

That said, I would like to address A50's guilty. Make no mistake, I went into Day 3 thinking boxxy was still the right elim. But I almost don't believe his guilty. boxxy, or whoever scum would be knowing that A50 is a psychologist, would have been able to use their common sense and kill Night 2 so they can avoid detection rather than wait until they are outted by a guilty. I just... think that's off.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I want to approach Day 3 differently this time. No more speed days, I'm going to re-read the thread and do an analysis on all players.

[humaneatingmonkey]

boxxy cleared Salsabil, not Kerset.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Like, it's so obvious, right? All scum needs to do is use their kill so that they can avoid detection from a claimed Psychologist. It's been 2 nights. How would A50 still get guilty? Unless the psychologist makes their night action before the mafia can make their kill.

I need to ask the mod.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Okay I've thought about it. It could also be that scum was overconfident that they can kill Almost50 anyway, so they didn't bother having that extra insurance.

[humaneatingmonkey]

But still. A Roaming Detective and a Novice Psychologist feels like an actual viable PR pair on paper. How was boxxy able to come up with a fakeclaim so fitting to an existing PR? Maybe they're informed about a novice psychologist role. Maybe maybe.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Anyway, we're not in MYLO. If this was fake guilty, we can still go after A50. Otherwise, I've resolved all my hesitations. VOTE: boxxy

[humaneatingmonkey]

I got seanzie fo townslip then I had something and forgot to unvote.

If you truly believed it was a townslip, you would have unvoted. You had the opportunity to.

[humaneatingmonkey]

?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Then why would you, as town, commit to a fake guilty?

[humaneatingmonkey]

So you did you actually target?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Right. UNVOTE: I'll go back to re-reading the game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

So you did you actually target?

EBWOP: *So who did you actually target?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Is there even a question that I'm not absolutely ready to elim boxxy? Because I'm absolutely ready to elim boxxy. I've been clear about that since Day 1. I don't know what you're trying to prove with this. It was a guilty, and if it was a fake guilty, town!A50 will always retract it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

How is there no question to you that boxxy could be fakeclaiming? He claimed Roaming Detective, as you say the "useful PR", and he's still alive today. And if you really think that is, why would scum kill A50 — the invest PR that could easily be evaded? Does that not give you any pause, as town? Sure, he could be left alive because he's gonna get elimmed anyway. But what if he isn't? What do you know about this slot that makes you locktown it so hard?

[humaneatingmonkey]

We've been so loud yesterday that boxxy and A50 has the same alignment. Why would you think that scum!me would be in a team that would kill A50 — making boxxy a useful confirmed town in our progression?

[humaneatingmonkey]

scum!me will never belong to a team that would kill A50 because I will never be able to push boxxy, the "useful PR". scum!me will never belong to a team that would kill nomnomnom because I would have him on my pocket.

enough with this narrative.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You didn't kill Nom on purpose. His role literally means he had to die protecting someone.

And in this world, Nom would protect A50, right? That's what I'm talking about.

[humaneatingmonkey]

again, if the narrative is that I'm trying to line up boxxy for elim today, scum!me will never belong to a team that would kill A50 because I will never be able to push boxxy, the "useful PR". nomnomnom will never protect boxxy either, because he doesn't believe in boxxy either.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Bambi Jay's POV is too non-paranoid for my tastes — almost TMI.

[humaneatingmonkey]

BambiJay, give me your town case on boxxy and Almost50.

[humaneatingmonkey]

HEM why are you so sure a50 was the protect? Or at least not boxxy?

nomnomnom doesn't buy boxxy, so not boxxy. nomnomnom doesn't completely buy a50 either, but someone has made the observation that there hasn't been any PR crumbs from anyone. it's questionable for scum to kill anyone but town!boxxy or town!Almost50 who has claimed investigative.

so it's either scum went straight for nomnomnom or they killed A50 and nomnomnom protected A50.

I'm just trying to dispel the narrative that I would belong to a team that would kill A50 or nomnomnom.

[humaneatingmonkey]

If you think that nomnomnom wouldn't have protected boxxy or A50, then that's a strong point that would indicate boxxy and/or A50 being scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Right now, before I hard push anyone, I just want to make sure I have a strong town reads on someone other than Dwlee because nomnomnom's death has crippled my game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Pretty bold ignoring all my points and just going straight to "he's scum" with no real substance or even a town case on boxxy and A50.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You don't have to respond in real-time. I don't want a fast game anymore. We can slow this game down and you can answer when it's comfortable.

[humaneatingmonkey]

@boxxy

I would have killed you N1. I always kill PR first. Read my games. You scumread me and you have the ability to check me or my partner. I have a dominant playstyle and I'm sure I could have elimmed anyone else during the days. I'm not dumb and I wouldn't have gambled a guilty.

[humaneatingmonkey]

When I don't wanna lie and be complex for no reason, I can be simple.

Why is boxxy and A50 town?

[humaneatingmonkey]

@boxxy

I would have killed you N1. I always kill PR first. Read my games. You scumread me and you have the ability to check me or my partner. I have a dominant playstyle and I'm sure I could have elimmed anyone else during the days. I'm not dumb and I wouldn't have gambled a guilty.

And as scum, I'm not only gambling a guilty. I'm also gambling you clearing slots and narrowing POE upon your flip.

That's because I think you're scum despite your claim. I believe scum would have done the same thing.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I highly doubt nom wouldn't pick anyone. It would be smarter to pick someone he doesn't think would get killed so that he at least becomes bulletproof.
So following that reasoning, you think a50 is completely clear? I don't trust him on play and don't want to let him win on an assumption that nom protected him.

I have just read the description for bodyguard and hider. I think you're right that nomnomnom wouldn't pick anybody. So following that reason, I think boxxy and/or A50 have a glaring huge red flag on them that has reads "SCUM".

[humaneatingmonkey]

EBWOP: I think you're right that nomnomnom would pick someone.

[humaneatingmonkey]

That's because I think you're scum despite your claim.

EBWOP: That's why I think you're scum despite your claim.

[humaneatingmonkey]

There's no way a50 AND boxxy are evil unless we have missing power roles. Do we want to mass claim?

I want a mass claim. I cite shiki in our last Mini Normal. Mass claims are always good, especially at Day 3 and 2 PRs are already down.

[humaneatingmonkey]

On ELO. You don't trust fake cop guilties on ELO. That was on you guys. You should have agreed to massclaim earlier.

[humaneatingmonkey]

And risk narrowing PoE/guilty on flip? I don't buy it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Add to you to-do list: An elaboration of #1349 at your earliest convenience.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I specifically asked about last night since I assumed scum!you would have targetted A50.

scum!me would have still targetted you

[humaneatingmonkey]

I also just read what Hider, but I have no idea what you're getting at here.

both of you are investigative claimed prs that nomnomnom wouldn't hide/protect in. so it's logical that scum would have targetted either of you. but they didn't, and that points towards scum you's.

[humaneatingmonkey]

That's also possible ngl.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I have townreads on Salsabil and Dwlee. I have a nullread on Kerset and MaxTheFox. I think there's at least one scum in boxxy, Almost50, and BambiJay — but I have mixed feelings with Almost50 (in that he could be town).

[humaneatingmonkey]

Oh, and T3 I have a townread on.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think we should force participation out of MaxTheFox. VOTE: MaxTheFox He blurts out an unexplained Cyrus townread, and literally all his reads are unexplained. He just isn't towning it up. He suggested looking in Cyrus wagon for bussers but didn't actually try himself.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Vanilla Townie

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm going to deliberately slow myself down from here on out to avoid drowning the game and give space to Kerset and MaxTheFox who I desperately need a read from.

[humaneatingmonkey]

that's alot of sudden Max support from me reminding y'all she exists.

Don't flatter yourself. I re-read the game and it's the obvious thing we need to do

[humaneatingmonkey]

Is that it, MaxTheFox? That's too little. I would like you to act as if you're a replacement into your slot and catch-up, explain the reads you had blurted out, roleclaim, and tell us who is scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Do you understand that you look like a lurking scum who doesn't have any real reads with positive partner interactions with cyrus? I assume you don't want everyone to be misled by this impression. Give us some peace of mind.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Kerset, what's your take on Salsabil, boxxy, Almost50, and BambiJay?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Kerset can you be easier to read? I have a feeling you're town, but you're making it very hard for me to think you're town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think T3 is town. I think Salsa is town. I think you're right about A50's mindset not making sense as a psychologist.

What do you think about Bambi Jay's take on A50 lying about his role to save boxxy? I think it's a load of bullshit because A50 doesn't have the town motivation to believe boxxy's claim if he has a sense that the slot of scum (as demonstrated by him, before boxxy claimed). But since he claims his role is tied to his own role (which Bambi Jay believes is fake and A50 is alluding is fake), he says he believes it. So it's a load of tangled bullshit imo.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think boxxy and A50's alignment is the same, and I think the game solves itself if we elim one or the other. boxxy's D1 play is very sus. But MaxTheFox is making me very nervous about this solve.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I have played a lot of games with T3 and I have seen people dissect his scum game enough for me to watch out for it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

What do you think, Kerset?

[humaneatingmonkey]

He wouldn't. That's who he is. He most likely isn't even a PR. Just a VT that tried to bait the shot like I tried with Nom. He claimed a useless PR role so people don't bother him about it. I've done that before too.

He genuinely might've taken the NK last night and was saved by Nom, but he's just a VT. Our actual PR is still in hiding, so don't bother with his claim.

Well, the fourth PR.

This one.

For the same reason, I also find Bambi Jay sus for believing boxxy's claim without any reservations despite the problems with the very valid problems with the slot. Especially if he thinks A50's claim is fake from the get-go.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Don't you see too much TPR?

It's too much PR, but Bambi Jay claims A50 is obviously lying (as town) so he thinks it stills stands. I think there's at least one scum (if not two scum) between boxxy, Almost50, Bambi Jay. But again, MaxTheFox makes me nervous.

When will you have the time to deep dive this game?

[humaneatingmonkey]

And if they are both scum then lack of TPR

The only information we have is that there's a bodyguard/hider and a universal backup. the scum we flipped is mafia goon. we don't have an idea what the balance is. that's why the massclaim is important.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also, A50 alludes to his claim being fake.

Even more proof the cannibal is opportunistic. Ready to kill the Detective (The USEFUL PR) based off of Almost. That wasn't even a good lie he did this time.

Honestly the only clear we got is his clear today since scum probably did believe Almost's probable lie of being a PR.

Oh, shut up! I've put more effort into this one than the previous one. I've even got the role name right (and without referring to my role PM. mind you)

And constantly fakes guilties.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think/know Almost is fake from personal experience with him. I don't know about his Alts but he plays a certain way and recruits me to help when I'm available. I oblige usually but he's already lied twice for ya so he's had his fun.

I don't doubt the one investigative that's probably legit unless Salsa counterclaims. Because I'm not falling for Almost fake claiming like he never falls for me doing it.

How do you know he's lying

as town

?

So what's your real role? VT?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't doubt the one investigative that's probably legit unless Salsa counterclaims.

How do you also know boxxy is not scum who fakeclaimed, especially if you consider his gameplay D1 and that he survived for this long?

[humaneatingmonkey]

My problem with you Bambi Jay is: Your behavior around boxxy's and Almost50's slots demonstrates a high level of confidence that you're willing to scumhunt by association. It's just not believable to me or obvious to me how you came up with those confident reads.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also, even now that you understand how important a massclaim is, you choose to be vague about a 1-shot vig claim. you are crippling the town's ability to solve this game for

le memes

and i don't see that as town behavior.

[humaneatingmonkey]

like, in my head, the only possible reason is you are TMI'd that boxxy is town and that you are fakeclaiming vig so that you can excuse yourself when boxxy gets a guilty on you. and the fact is, i wouldn't have this conclusion if you're not trying to be vague about your claim for le memes.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't know about his Alts but he plays a certain way and recruits me to help when I'm available. I oblige usually but he's already lied twice for ya so he's had his fun.

So, did Almost50 recruit you to help you with this game?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Bambi Jay, the more we talk, the more I think the solve is Almost50-Bambi Jay.

[humaneatingmonkey]

There's nothing to get. I've been very transparent. If you have any questions for me, you can ask it. If you feel like I'm trying to take charge of the game, welcome to my town game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Like you say all these Bambi Jay, but you haven't told us why you think Almost50 is town and why you think boxxy is legit and town. You have all this confidence that they are, but you haven't told us your reason.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Seanzie - Town Combined Hider Bodyguard
nomnomnom - Town Universal Backup

Almost50 - crumbed Novice Psychologist after boxxy's claim, Day 1 | hard claimed Novice Psychologist, Day 2 | known role bullshitter
boxxy - claimed Roaming Detective on E-1, Day 1

Salsabil Faria - Unclaimed
MaxTheFox - Unclaimed

T3 - claimed VT
Bambi Jay - claimed VT
Kerset - claimed VT
ssbm_Kyouko - claimed VT
humaneatingmonkey - claimed VT
Dwlee99 - claimed VT

cyrus62 - claimed VT | Mafia Goon

[humaneatingmonkey]

Bambi has fully claimed VT.

[humaneatingmonkey]

A50, Salsabil, and MaxTheFox.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I also don't think nom would target A50. Maybe boxxy, but not A50.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i was going to note Bambi Jay's progression on boxxy, but I wanted to wait for him to answer.

you addressed the problems with boxxy's slot on D1, and believed boxxy on the basis of A50's claim being legit.
bambi jay only has expressions of confidence that boxxy is legit and town, to the point of scumhunting by association. ISO him.

this was the only post that addresses his boxxy read:

I'm the only one who read day 1 And townread him for it I guess. Maybe cuz I wasn't involved at all. I disagree with his check too but his reasoning makes sense. You all haven't really given him too much of a chance.

I personally like how sure he was here:

Trying to fake powertown duo was a bold strat I'll give you that. If Bambi didn't get lucky it might have even worked.

But this complete reversal from reckless wagon pushing to all caution "I don't trust bambi yet," without even acknowledging that its guaranteed scum kill over 2 days might as well be a scumclaim.

Frankly I think I tricked him enough to reveal his true personality and I townread that. It doesn't sound like an evil mastermind laughing. Sounds more like an Ex Girlfriend getting vindication.

if you can see, there's no real reason why he townreads it and his toneread differentiating 'evil mastermind' from 'vindicated ex girlfriend' isn't really a reason that would make me think he would be that confident about boxxy's alignment.

his other reason was that since this is the only investigative claim is probably true, because he is confident that Almost50 is bullshitting as town. I also can't see him already believing that prior to the massclaim.

plus, if he believes a50 is bullshitting, he doesn't have the same reason that we think boxxy is a likely PR — A50 saying that their roles are perfect together.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also what made you change your mind on who you think nom targeted? Am I misremembering when I think you said that you thought nom targeted a50?

you said that he would not hide behind a slot that's likely to be an NK, and if town!Almost50 was likely to be an NK because of his claimed role, then he wouldn't have hid behind them. i think that makes sense.

boxxy raised the point that nom could have also hid behind his scumreads. his scumread on A50 was similar to mine — associative. he was thinking boxxy was scum first, so it could also be likely that nom hid there.

[humaneatingmonkey]

his other reason was that since this is the only investigative claim is probably true, because he is confident that Almost50 is bullshitting as town. I also can't see him already believing that prior to the massclaim.

EBWOP, I'll rephrase for better clarity.
His other reason was: Since this is the only investigative claim, it's probably true. He believed this because he was confident that Almost50 was bullshitting as town. Now, would he believe that boxxy was the only investigative claim prior to the massclaim? I don't think so, and he even said so. He said unless Salsabil would counterclaim. That doesn't seem that confident to me, as opposed to the confidence that he is displaying in his ISO. (I recommend you check and make your own conclusions.)

[humaneatingmonkey]

More on Bambi Jay's TMI later. I also think his read on A50 is too confident for what's reasonable. I wanted to wait because I think it could also be that he's town that he hasn't been challenged enough to clarify his thoughts. We rushed Day 1 and Day 2 after all.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Salsabil, I appreciated the case and it helped me get a better read on you. But what exactly are you accusing of Kerset in your case? Because I wasn't seeing the things that you were seeing in the posts that you linked. Maybe you can help me because I don't have a solid read of Kerset. He seems like he's solving the game, but I don't know if he's made any progress because he always seemed so lost without a strong opinion.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Salsabil, I think it's not unreasonable to continue to push someone if you think they're being scummy especially a slot that hasn't been as vocal as we need them to be. Do what you gotta. I would also look at his slot as if he were town and things that wouldn't make sense to do if he was town if you're afraid of tunneling.

I forgot about T3 saying that he's locktowned after Seanzie's elim. That seemed super off when I read that.

[humaneatingmonkey]

No one is willing to take a closer look to any of my cases, which kind of an insult + demotivational

Thank you for saying this because now I'm confident that you're town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You are being buddied, Dwlee. I want to form a townbloc.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Maybe it's Bambi Jay and MaxTheFox

[humaneatingmonkey]

Maybe it's Almost50 and Bambi Jay

[humaneatingmonkey]

What I'm saying is it's {boxxy/Almost50, Bambi Jay, MaxTheFox}. If Almost50 can just straighten out his claim, I can narrow down my PoE and case these players.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Vote her, at least trust me on this one thing please.... this is for the rest of the town also.

You don't have to tell me. I've noticed his TMI too.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Maybe because I am new.

Can you tell me about you as a player? How can you describe your playstyle? How long have you been playing? Have you caught scum before? Maybe just tell us how to differentiate from your town game and your scum game based on your own observations (links to games would help)

[humaneatingmonkey]

nom you start to work under confirmation bias

This is town. Kerset is town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

What makes it Kerset or T3? How would your reads be influenced if Almost50 comes out and flat out claims VT who fakeclaimed?

[humaneatingmonkey]

What makes you think that you will be eliminated today?

[humaneatingmonkey]

MaxTheFox → Almost50 → Bambi Jay solves the game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

What's your read on MaxTheFox?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Max, I really want the solve to be Almost50 and Bambi Jay. But your posts are screaming scum to me. I feel like you're sweating for no reason. Tell me why you're feeling nervous.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Monkey we're just pathological liars. Not scum.

See I wanted to talk to you about that. You didn't respond to me. Why is Almost50 town to you? It's not the fakeclaim, right? Because he admits he does that as both alignments. Why do you believe Almost50 is town?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Have you seen https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86642? She actually managed to survive and win as scum in normal.

I'm looking at it now

[humaneatingmonkey]

A50 answering on behalf of Bambi Jay instead of letting Bambi Jay illustrate it himself makes me think that this interaction would have never happened if they have a PT — otherwise he could have just coached there. If there's scum in A50 and Bambi Jay, it's only one or the other.

{Bambi Jay/A50, Max The Fox}

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think there's little chance that Kerset, as scum, would call out nomnomnom for confbiasing on Seanzie. Kerset is town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

T3... I'm nervous about T3 tbh. I have never played with him as scum. Lukewarm, in our recent game, has said that scum!T3 posts and pushes with more obvious agenda. In this game, I don't know if I can call any move that T3 has done to be scum agenda. Although I don't know how valuable that meta is anymore if T3 already knows about it. But I think, if we were to commit to boxxy being town, T3 would have been less likely to unvote in the way that he has when boxxy claimed if he was scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

boxxy... I believe there's absolutely little chance boxxy lives Day 4 if he is legit.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Dwlee, can you differentiate your scum game and your town game for me?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I would think that MaxTheFox is the better choice here. Although it might be that we just haven't seen enough of him to really read into the slot, I think his D1 stances are off, I think his reads are shallow, and I think the emotions of his recent posts are off.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't have a completed scum game on site since I think 2017ish so not really. I can send you links to old games though if you want to read through me being 14 or 15 though lol

Ah. You haven't rolled scum. Very dangerous.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You said you dont have a completed scum game on site since 2017. Have you been in a scum game where you've been replaced more recently?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Like... maybe you have a game where you've replaced out in the middle and you don't count that as a completed game, but you were scum there and it was much more recent.

[humaneatingmonkey]

...Can I trust you to be not scum this time? I have a strong townread on you based on play, but since I have no idea what kind of scum player you would be, it makes me nervous. It would be pretty embarrassing if you were just playing the best scum game ever.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I won a scummy for being good at scum but no I'm not

I've been looking at your site topics. Let's say for the sake of argument that you were scum more recently, what would be the more obvious blindspots that you could improve on in your scum play that's otherwise missing in your town play?

[humaneatingmonkey]

The post you quoted isn't even close to indicating or hinting at what you're saying now. So it doesn't look like an explanation for your read, just that you think Almost50 fakeclaimed. But the confidence that he's town because he fakeclaimed? Not present and hasn't been verbalized until now (with Almost50 bailing you out as well).

Probably only unloaded it so early when he saw I got myself stuck in a lie I couldn't back out of peacefully.

Didn't you plan for the event that you would be called out for your fake guilty? Why wouldn't you have just retracted your fake guilty? nomnomnom was giving you space to do so.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Cool. I think I'm good. Waiting on Max The Fox.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Sorry just one more thing:

My scumreads:

cyrus92
monkee

Townreads:

seanzie

Rest are null

This is a TOWNIE readlist.

Almost50, this is the only post that addresses your read on boxxy before he claimed. Your other reason was that Roaming Detective is a hard claim for scum to make because you're not familiar to it.

If you're VT and if you have no reason to townread him based on "role synergy", are there any other reasons—prior to boxxy's claim—that made you confident boxxy was legit and town? Or was it just the readlist and your perceived difficulty of the claim?

I guess the designer didn't foresee you making a bad push that results in outing the PR, so didn't take this into account.

You also said that the push nomnomnom and I did against boxxy was bad. You never explained why. Can you explain now what you thought made it bad around those times?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I can see a world where town!Almost50 would fakeclaim a role and risk an NK to divert attention to him. But would town!Almost50 be willing to do that if he's not confident about his boxxy read? Surely, there's a chance that boxxy is bullshitting — right? Well, then town!Almost50 must have a reason to be truly confident about boxxy's slot.

That's why I'm asking Almost50 what made him confident about boxxy's slot prior to his claim. Right now, I don't buy that town would see boxxy's readlist and claim at the circumstances that they were happening as clear undeniable evidence that boxxy is town. Clear enough that they'd fakeclaim an investigative with PR synergy that can clear boxxy to everyone's eyes. T3 had a similar POV, but had reservations about boxxy as well. Almost50 clearly didn't have reservations about boxxy.

[humaneatingmonkey]

it was an unfounded push with no real good reasoning that lead to the exposure of a TPR on D1. THAT is BAD in my book.

yes, that's what i thought you meant. but please elaborate. nomnomnom, Dwlee, Seanzie, T3, Kyuoku, and I all thought that boxxy was scummy, and we had very laid-out reasons for thinking sa much. But it was still convincing and nuanced. Why did you think we were wrong?

Of course, now in hindsight, boxxy is the only claimed investigative and it's probably wrong. But you didn't know that. You didn't know everybody else's role and you didn't know if one of us pushing him were PRs who had a good reason to doubt him. Still you were confident. Why?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Because I'm obviously better than you all??

Not what I'm looking for. I'm very very nearly convinced that you're town, A50. I just need you to tell us exactly what made you disagree about our case against boxxy (at the circumstance that they were occurring).

[humaneatingmonkey]

That's all. Thank you.

Now, all that's left is MaxTheFox.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Bambi Jay, you have a lot of history with Almost50. Is A50's performance this game outside of his scumrange?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also, Almost50, you have a lot of history with Bambi Jay. Is Bambi Jay's performance in this game outside of his scumrange?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Well no, but it's town more often then not here I'm sure.

What makes you think that even though it's still within his scumrange, it's more likely that it's a town game?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think Bambi is out of her Scum!Range "by just about a little bit" here. I think Elsa Jay is a bit more cunning than Bambi (although Bambi is more evil) so if it was Elsa I would have said "no"

lol it's the same person. but what's the difference?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think Bambi is out of her Scum!Range "by just about a little bit" here.

So with that said, can you elaborate on why you think it's just about a little bit? What strikes as something Bambi wouldn't do as scum here by "just about a little bit"?

[humaneatingmonkey]

But it's just a little bit because?

[humaneatingmonkey]

UNVOTE:

Not ready to end the day.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hello Max, will you have time to talk to me today?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Your game here was as scum in a normal. It was impressive, you survived until the end of the day. You were also methodical and you were very confident in sharing your reads + questioning people. What's the difference between this game and that game for you?

[humaneatingmonkey]

*Your first game here

[humaneatingmonkey]

The explanation for my read on Bambi is that Bambi just seems helpful. Providing reads. Helping solve the game. And most importantly it doesn't seem forced.

What posts from Bambi does it give you the impression that they're helpful, providing reads, helping solve the game, etc.? And why is Bambi Jay more distinctly town vs Almost50 or anyone else in the playerlist?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Can you also give me a readslist? It would really help us.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Here I am more restrained with town reads I suppose.

Is it hard for you to spot town?

[humaneatingmonkey]

A50 is scum trying to get away with blatantly changing claims to fit the situation.

Can you expound on this? How did scum!A50 use his claims and fake guilties/clears to fit his situation? I'm trying to get a read on this slot so you can help me with this one.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Thanks A50

[humaneatingmonkey]

I am re-reading Bambi's ISO and my TR on her is just... eroding. I don't know why I originally TRed her. Many of her other posts are either filler or scum.

So why did you say otherwise earlier?

A50 is scum trying to get away with blatantly changing claims to fit the situation.

Can you expound on this? How did scum!A50 use his claims and fake guilties/clears to fit his situation? I'm trying to get a read on this slot so you can help me with this one.

He didn't, he just jumped between several claims over the course of 3 days. I just don't see why town would make themself hard to read like that.

So why did you say otherwise earlier?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I have some additional questions MaxTheFox

Max do you have more thoughtsTM? Have you caught up?

I was AFK for a while. But basically I skimmed the thread. Early Cyrus vs nomnomnom is TvT I think.

Maybe because I wasn't interacting with the thread early it's hard for me to form opinions.

Do you remember this post? Can you tell me what was in your head when you said it was TvT?

Well shit guess I was wrong about TR.

I think we should look for anyone bussing on the wagon on Cyrus before he died.

Do you also remember this post? Why did you think that scum bussed Cyrus, and why haven't you looked into the wagon yourself?

You are town because I don't really see scum with that playstyle. Maybe because I am new.

What about my playstyle makes you confident that I'm town?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also: I hope you're working on your readslist. I'll give you space now. I hope you can take the time to clear your name today.

[humaneatingmonkey]

you had A50 cemented as scum. that's a lot of confidence. what's your case on him? can you tell me why his actions this game was something scum would do vs something town would do?

[humaneatingmonkey]

@monkey can you explain calmly and early why you had me essentially locked scum day1 and day 2

@boxxy

A. bad progression
A1. focusing on anti-town elims instead of scumreads (even though you make a fuss about "noise on scumhunting")
A2. calling me scum and pushing for my elimination for garbage posting and then giving me a townlean for more garbage posts
A3. recanting that you thought i was scum and were actually pushing for my elimination
A4. calling Seanzie dishonest (shading) and then voting nomnomnom for anti-town scumhunting methods
A5. voting nomnomnom for anti-town scumhunting methods (as she pushes for cyrus), instead of cyrus (who nomnomnom pushes) who you actually scumread

B. bad reaction to pressure
B1. dismisses my push by painting me as stupid
B2. claims an investigative role that vaguely gives any clearance to slots
B3. unable to explain what a detective is
B4. TMIs that I'm town in the statement "your trash play cost us the game"
B5. goes straight to AtE and basically gives up trying to solve the game
B6. dismisses my posts as "filler"

C. roleclaim
C1. still alive in N1
C2. checked Seanzie, his townread, but not nomnomnom or HEM or anyone else who he still suspected

D. mechanical
D1. flip will confirm Salsabil
D2. eliminate wifom
D3. gives a lot of associative reads

The reason why I slowed down today and I want to get an in-depth read of every slot is that there's a very good chance that you're still scum here and I want to have the freedom to eliminate you Day 4. But that means I have to nail scum today. I'm treating this day as MELO. I think I have 33% if not 66% chance of doing that with {Max The Fox, Almost50, and Bambi Jay}.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm not feeling motivated for anything atm due to some hard stuffs irl, I don't want to do detailed posts or give arguments about anything rn, not feeling it tbh. I do complete the catch-ups and decide to go with my gut again.

UNVOTE: Bambi Jay

VOTE: Almost50

MaxTheFox

can be scum if one of (or both)

Almost50

and

Bambi Jay

will flip town. Same goes for

Kerset

,

Dwlee99

,

humaneatingmonkey

and

T3

.

That's okay. We're consuming the entire day.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Max The Fox, I'll be honest with you. I'm not impressed with your reads. They all seem fake—weak at best—but your full vindication that Almost50 is scum and that I'm town makes me not believe that there's actually a player behind your posts that's trying hard to solve this game. Is this the best you can do?

[humaneatingmonkey]

MaxTheFox can be scum if one of (or both) Almost50 and Bambi Jay will flip town. Same goes for Kerset, Dwlee99, humaneatingmonkey and T3.

Salsabil, what is this?

[humaneatingmonkey]

And T3 still gave none.

I townread him. What are you gonna do about it? If you want to change minds, you have a lot of time to do so.

[humaneatingmonkey]

T3... I'm nervous about T3 tbh. I have never played with him as scum. Lukewarm, in our recent game, has said that scum!T3 posts and pushes with more obvious agenda. In this game, I don't know if I can call any move that T3 has done to be scum agenda. Although I don't know how valuable that meta is anymore if T3 already knows about it. But I think, if we were to commit to boxxy being town, T3 would have been less likely to unvote in the way that he has when boxxy claimed if he was scum.

Debunk this

[humaneatingmonkey]

Unvote please thanks

[humaneatingmonkey]

>.>

[humaneatingmonkey]

Honestly it's still a toss-up between Bambi Jay, MaxTheFox, and Almost50 and I've yet to collect my thoughts in concise posts for each slot. I would like to have that opportunity.

[humaneatingmonkey]

So please unvote.

[humaneatingmonkey]

so it's Bambi Jay and MaxTheFox after all.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Thanks for scumclaiming

[humaneatingmonkey]

I not so politely disagree with this wagon.

[humaneatingmonkey]

[humaneatingmonkey]

Kerset

You knew what you were doing Bambi Jay. Don't play "oh no i hammered accidentally!" with me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Almost

Fuck it no slow days for you. See you in another 2 days.

Or we can speed up the night. Whatever the mod wants.

This is explicitly a hammer post. It's not an "accidental hammer" post.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hahahaha

[humaneatingmonkey]

Because she's upset about the fast days and didn't want me to have a slow day, Kerset!

[humaneatingmonkey]

Ohh. E-1. The urge to quick hammer is rising. Only tempered by not wanting to have another short day phase.

If the day phase is short again tho I want us to do a quick night instead if possible. Like only one day instead of two.

Yeah a mass claim now kinda helps. First off though I guess I got an idea. If we all say the 3 people we want the most gone out of us 9, we can narrow down our pool significantly. Tally the votes and shit.

Like for me it would be
HEM
Salsa
Dwlee

The bottom two just feel fillersy. Probs could say the same about Max but of everyone she seems the most screwed from the short first days. Let's not go wild I guess this time and think things through.

And then proceeds to hammer her "strongest townread"

[humaneatingmonkey]

[humaneatingmonkey]

Or his plan to kill me and Almost fucks the game enough scum win it.

→ kills Almost

[humaneatingmonkey]

[humaneatingmonkey]

this is so sad. fwiw almost50 is the slot i'd elim the last between the three.

[humaneatingmonkey]

but i'm so glad bambi jay scumclaimed

[humaneatingmonkey]

i dont think it's futile. let him catch up

[humaneatingmonkey]

For arguments sake, if Almost50 flips town, then who are the scums?

Bambi Jay, I'm sure about. MaxTheFox, less so but it's still a solid read.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Only I get to kill my friend, not you. It's what he would want.

Oh so you actually counted. Good on ya.

Salsa good cuz of Box result, Box is a PR, and I know I trust myself and since you want Max gone I'll trust her.

So scum in Monkey, Kerset, Dwlee.

Fuck you for fucking me over once again. I should probably PL you as ANY of your accounts n every game to prevent this from happening ever again. I now look like an arse

You did not me. I hammered because I love him and it's what he'd want.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Then you should go for her today??

I went for them today. She cut me short. Almost50 is hammered. I'll go for her tomorrow.

[humaneatingmonkey]

opinion on MaxTheFox, Almost50?

[humaneatingmonkey]

What about Salsabil makes her scum, Almost50? I personally have a townread based on emotions.