Newbie 2068 | Lofi Beats to Play Mafia To | Game Over

[GrandpaMo]

i think in an alternate universave vfp + val is the scum group

val gets on vfp how vfp takes advantage of this bw

and vfp follows this plan

val's plan 2nd day is to bus vfp for this reason because ima flip town.

after that -- val gets towncred and probably won't be looked at until day 3.

alstro will be in the final 3.

woop woop!!

[GrandpaMo]

could it be true that you were doing this just to set me up? why?

do you think that i would be following along with your plan? after all you might be town -- but it will take a long stake at hold. i will be hammered once zyla comes back unfortuntatly. and town will see this lost. vfp will flip scum and eventually get ruled out with the options of NEE. look at how NEE started at zyla my intitial scumread -- then turns to me once the wagon hit.

james is town afterall. this whole thing was an act. an act that got wasted by humility.

you are right @val. this was a town v town scenerio hence why i asked alstro and their thoughts on the sitatuion. could it be that it could be replicating me and JacksonVirgo's and my first newbie game but my frustration and egotistical overconfidence led me to the point where I am town in Virgo's eyes? could it be that James could be following the same thing -- once I laid back everything was quiet between us. But it was too late and I sincerely apologize.

But val you are so wrong and you know it.

You are outright scum. I just know it. Just look at the everything you have followed suit? Did you overcome yourself to seem towny? Like look at me asking the very simple question of you being scum and look at zyla being overly excited. I don't think it may seem excessive? Could it be?

There is a world where you are scum with VFP but once I scumread VFP -- will it be an omgus, is that why I am scumreading you more than VFP right now? It is up to you to decipher that as town.

You failed. And I hope town sees this day 2 after I flip masons with T3.

Unfortunately, that isn't my real claim -- I am just saying this so possible I can openwolf my way out of a hammer and it may or may not happen. T3, could you possibly claim masons with me? Because you won't be voted today. And like I said -- you are one of the one's + cooks, and vfp's alignment's gets solved by tomorrow and VFP is probably the vote tomorrow and town will eventually lose if alstro / val is scum only if VFP flips town somehow and is not scum with Val.

VOTE: Va89l

[GrandpaMo]

There is also a world with Cook + Zyla could be scum. There early interactions allign way better than James + Zyla.

You set this shit up for yourself @Val

To make you look town.

You know I am flipping town -- therefore you push for a vote on James while half of town pushes on VFP. The question is who wins in that battle?

[GrandpaMo]

Grampa likes to pocket me as scum for the record.
He knows that my only weakness is compliments and calling me town!

It may be too late for me, but you all have to stop... gnnnnhr

Grampa is looking town so far.

Zyla maybe town, I don't see anything scum motivated to point out the no lim and as an experienced player probably just isn't used to this.
T3 has a T3 town start so we'll see.

Thats 3 pages, 3 reads! A read per page!

Hi, I'm VFP and I have never played with anyone in this player list.

VOTE: No lim

How could I forget about this...

[GrandpaMo]

I didn't mean to quote the second person... Am I doing this to you VFP?

Oh fuck. I am.

This is why you scumread me, isn't it.

But I haven't played with me!scum have I?

You said yourself, so how would this be true?

[GrandpaMo]

Are you claiming Mason or no?

Are you claiming scum?

[GrandpaMo]

Also no, I will be claiming cop with a night zero guilty check on James. They aren't scum though.

You are.

[GrandpaMo]

I'll be honest, I don't consider fake claiming, semi-fake claiming or whatever it is you are trying to do here as town behaviour. Are you walking back your VT claim or not?

Why would I fake claim. I am obviously a VT claim if it isn't obvious enough. I wouldn't throw like that.

I just want to have fun while it lasts -- my progression and game theory will be eventually right. don't @ me post game

[GrandpaMo]

I'm so confused now.

Holy fuck

[GrandpaMo]

Didn't mean to submit -- but i think you are so town for that.

[GrandpaMo]

vfp should have been the vote today dammit.

does anyoone wanna pivot to me

we get val tmr >>> then cook/zyla day 3

[GrandpaMo]

vfp should have been the vote today dammit.

does anyoone wanna pivot to me

we get val tmr >>> then cook/zyla day 3

with****

[GrandpaMo]

I think we are looking at scum!Grandpa now, and I may actually be eating my hat at some point in the next few days.

That said, we still have 4 days, and there might be some value in letting him flail some more. I'm sure this all supposed to be what scum!Grandpa called "200iq wifom" in his mafia pt last scum game he had, but it might be possible to draw some conclusions from what he did there and draw parallels to this game.

I have changed my mind in that I think it's more likley a red flip than a green flip now, but my concern that seeing this flip green gives us no real information still stands.

Going into the lim while I still have a straight up null read in Cook is also something I'm a little uneasy about.

lord make up ur mind

[GrandpaMo]

does anyoone wanna pivot to me

yeah alright i'll pivot to you

VOTE: GrandpaMo

my vote might have already have been there, doesn't matter

damn i guess im hammered well gl town

[GrandpaMo]

i think it was best for town to just have vote me there

[GrandpaMo]

I think we are looking at scum!Grandpa now, and I may actually be eating my hat at some point in the next few days.

That said, we still have 4 days, and there might be some value in letting him flail some more. I'm sure this all supposed to be what scum!Grandpa called "200iq wifom" in his mafia pt last scum game he had, but it might be possible to draw some conclusions from what he did there and draw parallels to this game.

I have changed my mind in that I think it's more likley a red flip than a green flip now, but my concern that seeing this flip green gives us no real information still stands.

Going into the lim while I still have a straight up null read in Cook is also something I'm a little uneasy about.

this looks like a straight omgus imo.

pls lim val tmr for this.

asap

[GrandpaMo]

after me scumcasing u on a weird ass bs context -- you pivot ur read as scum ? all that quick? when you have litearlly been pushing james as scum with me all game??

isn't the scummiest think you can do is that you flip the narrative.

this looks bad for u imo

[GrandpaMo]

Grandpa is town for the reaction.

This feels silly, like
T3: Grandpa is town
Grandpa: Okay I changed my mind T3 is town now because they didn't hammer me also some meta
T3: Ok Grandpa is town even more

I agree with Grandpa's logic in the reaction, that not hammering at this point is something townie, but also, like, WIFOM at this point on anyone who was under suspicion who goes on to rush a hammer and doesn't, you know? And especially when you consider the meltdown that happened between Grandpa's reaction in 675 and T3's post in 742... I just don't follow the logic at all.

+1 another time where alstro says they agree wit me but continues to scumread me sad!

[GrandpaMo]

Something else can concerns me is the abrupt change between #711-712 and #713 onwards, in the space of 7 minutes and in response to no-one. I think it's fairly clear he is just throwing stuff out there and hoping something might stick, but if we are wrong about James, then continuing the attack on James would also serve his purpose, surely.

no. i was just thinking how scum could have been you this whole time trying to pocket me for the vote on james but failed and then found this opportunity to quickly pivot onto me. just maybe a world where you + vfp could be scum.

I think there are two things to consider: one, that he knows I've already said that Scum!Grandpa = Town!James, and if he is right about him getting hammered once Zyla comes along, and we see him flip red, continuing an attack on James makes little sense.

i think we are tvt atp. this whole game has been a shit show me it -- me townreading someone to see how they react is the best play for me atp. i am doing a favor for town, to gain reactions from other ppl once i push a narrative that hasnt been pushed before, for example scum!you. after my flip as town, town can look back and see how well or bad you reacted in pressure from accumlated dissonance of my perspective.

Second is the content that James and Grandpa were discussing: which is how he might be scum buddies with either me or T3. Grandpa has in general been rather concerned with finding out who certain people think he might be scum buddies with, if he theoretically flips red. The conversation with James has prompted posts like #704; Grandpa himself has said "person a - yes and ur partner is possibly t3; " in the proceeding post to his sudden change of heart on James. If Zyla is right about Grandpa writing stream-of-consciousness style, it occurs to me it's possible scum!Grandpa realises this is only drawing attention to his scumbuddy and immediately jumps into "Val is bad! Val is BAAAD!!"

why do i do this as scum? just why? why would i do this scum when i already know im in a shit show and know im gettting hammered. heck i just got hammered, again why would i have done this?

I can see where the idea of a {Grandpa, Val} came from. Does anyone recall where the idea of {Grandpa, T3} was first floated, and why? I know we might well be getting into the realm of the pre-flip associative now, but to my recollection T3 was one of those "laid-backs", to borrow Grandpa' term, and hasn't given us all that much to read them with, yet alone to start partnering them off.

it was brought up because no one really found a read wit me and so just paired me with someone who hasnt talked a lot / gave no contribution for example, cook, or t3.

[GrandpaMo]

Grandpa claiming vt only comes from towngrandpa.

claim masons wit me atp

[GrandpaMo]

pls let me live t3. u are literally the only one who knows how i play lol

[GrandpaMo]

well its ok im hammered. so its too late. ig ur dying wit me now

[GrandpaMo]

I want to clarify, that I'm not meaning that to be rude, I'd just personally suggest rereading your posts a couple of times, maybe even check spelling and grammar, not because those are necessary, but because rereading might help make sure your logic sounds like it would make sense to other people

.... sorry for the run on sentence. I'm not the best at doing that while on my phone.

lol irony

I... I thought reading this thread on the way back home would be nice. Now I've just got a headache.

Grandpa, question for you. When you make posts, do you usually just write what you're thinking and hit send?

and u think thats scummy? cuz thats how i play as my town playstyle -- i like for town to listen to my thoughts // and gain negative or postiive reactions from them.

[GrandpaMo]

how can i get better without changing my playstyle:(

pedit: WHAT

[GrandpaMo]

damn i guess im hammered well gl town

Cook was already voting you so not yet

no??

cook never had voted me

[GrandpaMo]

fuck i just rememebred them scumreading me but never voting --

well thats embarrassing

[GrandpaMo]

this is the real flailing scum

imagine if this post was referring to yourself

and realize how accurate that feels as well

VOTE: GrandpaMo

In my current solvestate, James or Mo goes today.

yea dedass forgot bout that quote and me rambling to vote james wit me hence why i thought they never voted

[GrandpaMo]

Cook said he was already voting for you in his post.

This sort of thing is starting to drift towards the level of trying to insult our intelligence.

what?

[GrandpaMo]

im so confused ;-;

[GrandpaMo]

Townslip moment.

Now unvote.

how is that a townslip lol

[GrandpaMo]

i jsut forgot cook's vote

[GrandpaMo]

my vote might have already have been there

what does that mean

that doesn't mean they knew there vote was there. dont take words out of context -- "might" was used there to imply an unknown thought.

i just assumed that it never cook had never voted me but only scumread me as tho why they might have said that "might" (scumreading someone can sometimes be mistanktly alligned wit voting)

[GrandpaMo]

and u think thats scummy? cuz thats how i play as my town playstyle -- i like for town to listen to my thoughts // and gain negative or postiive reactions from them.

Maybe not immediately "scummy" in my opinion but if it makes it more difficult for your teammates (i.e. other town) then it's probably worth refining a bit. You can share all your thoughts while just making sure to write in a way that is more coherent. Syntax and proofreading go a long way

ive done that and i still get scumread lol so i just gave up -- im trying new playstyles:( also tyt if u wanna get to read me right

[GrandpaMo]

also try doing what vfp doing a grasp the scumcase on me from vfp's perspective by checking out my scumgame in aliensitter needed. check what vfp was talking bout on how there were similiatires. can you spot any differences? etc

[GrandpaMo]

what's tyt? I found the alien game and I'm going to look at it tomorrow when I'm more awake

goodnight

take your time

[GrandpaMo]

Townslip moment.

Now unvote.

how is that a townslip lol

Could be tired-posting hell but here's where my brain is at:
If Grandpa genuinely thought he was hammered (which I think is the case), then his immediately subsequent posts tell a lot. Being like "good luck town" and continuing to maintain being town and working toward a game solve is more town than just being like "lol ok bye"

in my sleepy delirium I want to toss out a half-baked new possibility for us to maybe chew on. What about {VFP, NEE}? Yeah, this means that all of this Val James Grandpa has been a TvTvT clusterf*** with those two watching from the sidelines and feeding the fire every now and then based in part on where the sentiment of the group seems to be going. Consider that they were the H-2 and H-1 posts within 7 posts of each other (585 and 592), maybe trying to give it a burst of momentum? I'm writing this purely off of notes and not going back to the ISOs tonight, but just had this paranoid sinking feeling that what if we're completely off the wrong track and the newbies are just eating each other alive??

that was literally my thought process lmfao. u hit on spot on like i was dead ass thinking ways of just everyone being scum closest one i can find is scum in these val, vfp, cook, nee. like with val there is this thing where i wanna trust them for their subsequent posting and their consistency but its like they are now pivoting to me when they have been pushing the same person i have been pushing all game? and it just seems like an omgus.

then there is cook who coasts and never talked until one point where they just came into the discussion for one moment to scumread me and leave just to never talk again until becoming more active towards the eod.

then there is vfp who townleaning me in the beginning i believe for something i would do as town then starts hard scumreading me based off meta (this is where i want you to look at this from @ alstro hence why im asking u to personally read the game since you are the only one i can trust imo)

then there is NEE who also was scumreading my initial scumread (zyla) then pivots onto me and never becomes active towards eod ever again -- just dies down as i become e-1.

its just intringuing to find that the voting progression followed this pattern:

vfp townreads me
me scumread zyla
zyla scumreads me
zyla votes me
james then follows to votes me
cook scumreads me
alstro townreads me
val townreads me
t3 scumread me
nee implied townread on me (dk for sure on this one)
me scumread james
cook votes me
nee scumreads me
vfp scumreads me
alstro becomes more 50/50 with me
t3 townreads me
vfp votes me
val scumreads me

[GrandpaMo]

this game is supppperrr weird.

i get unvoted by nee and hammer just stalls (just seems like i could be town from town's perspective -- mafia would have just hammered me imo)

val now scumreads me all of a sudden (omgus) and scumreads the ppl who i had in my scumtheory


;-; im so lost and confused pls help me t3 what is going on anymore

[GrandpaMo]

These reads from T3 don’t feel real.

they do xD

t3 does shit when they are town

check out the first game where we were both town hilarious game btw

[GrandpaMo]

or actually check the same game alstro will check where i was scum and t3 was town -- u would see this from t3!town

[GrandpaMo]

i have to go to work and will be back around 4 pm est -- this twindle of a shit show has finally died down a little.

i have a question for u nee .. do you think i would i have done all this as scum?

like you even say in post 790, i am confident in my reads -- well yes I am and I do think I am right because i am town and everyone's perspective could be very much info telling off a mindset switch (look at the post where i saw everyone's reads from townreading to more of scumreading)

and in post 789 - to answer ur question -- nah this was just out of parania, it was to stick any last reads so i can brag about it in post game -- really, but in all seriousness, i do kinda see val being scum but atp i also see u as scum too but u might have just wanted the hammer. but then there is james, the same person who ME AND VAL both pushed all game (who val now pushes me? again this vote makes NO sense here . and i still want someone to explain why does town do that if val is town) , which i am having paranoia -- yes i called them tvt towards the late (this mainly for a reaction) to see how well theytook getting townread like i said so they could analyze the response after i die and solve james allignment better and so val doesnt get to control the vote just incase val is scum -- i can explain this bit more. im in a rush rn and have to go now . so ill ttyl

[GrandpaMo]

Grampa still out right refusing to answer my questions.

i thought i answered everything

[GrandpaMo]

Grampa you need to make your mind up if I'm scum or not.
You try to pull at my heart strings, don't get the result and shade me as scum.

I'm okay if you want to say I'm scum, but let's not do the little dance!

You talk about James ignoring your questions.
I'm yet to receive answers from you.

i litearlly have called u town multiple times -- what r u talking bout

i literally still townread u so hard.

i have pointed out multiple times that i townread you. even tho ur wrong on me -- i will not let that get besides me and make me blind that you could just be town doing this.

let me hear those farfetched bs reasons once again

Since this was at me.
Can you explain this part?
Where have I had farfetched bullshit reasons on anyone?

Also, I've never played with town you, Grampa? Other than a game I replaced into where you were dead.
Why should I know this is town you?

Since you are talking about people ignoring you Grampa.
You haven't answered these yet.

i have not seen these actually

let me hear those farfetched bs reasons once again

Since this was at me.
Can you explain this part?
Where have I had farfetched bullshit reasons on anyone?

this is where i was just frustrated at people like you and cook where they would they im scum and then literally provide no reason -- or really weak reasoning

Also, I've never played with town you, Grampa? Other than a game I replaced into where you were dead.
Why should I know this is town you?

since you say meta is a good tool to use then i suggest you use it -- you will see more similarities of my town pov than scum pov from my newbie game and not the aliensitter needed game where there were 3 scum instead of 2

Since you are talking about people ignoring you Grampa.
You haven't answered these yet.

i have not seen these actually

here

[GrandpaMo]

if I were him I would have claimed a pr to draw the c.

Honestly, all the crap he is spouting about "this is my claim but not really" and trying to encourage you to claim Mason looks like he

is

trying to draw a cc.

im too smol to undertand this big brain logic

[GrandpaMo]

Those answers were just clear dodging answers.
It's a bitch when you get called out for what you're using as scum reads on others, eh?

yea i realized that probably was against james nd used for confirmation bias -- hence why i dropped that read (scumreading them for not answering questions - becase u realize u skim and don't even focus on what anyone says anymore and just tryna get past ur thoughts out to town)

but dw i got u

ima answer them rn

[GrandpaMo]

Those answers were just clear dodging answers.
It's a bitch when you get called out for what you're using as scum reads on others, eh?

yea i realized that probably was against james nd used for confirmation bias -- hence why i dropped that read (scumreading them for not answering questions - becase u realize u skim and don't even focus on what anyone says anymore and just tryna get past ur thoughts out to town)

but dw i got u

ima answer them rn

the one in red was true tho - not dodging anything. i answered ur question truthfully

[GrandpaMo]

Thats not answering my questions Grampa.
Why would I know this is town you? You said I should know its town you, not that I should meta check you.

And the part about you being frustrated is just a pile of bollocks.
You even say again that my play style is to call you scum for no reason or weak reason. Where do I do this? Are you saying that my town game I do this?

You said that I have ignored you but you have implied in your response that I have responded to you but you just didn't like the response.

Let me reiterate -- first, that question is an unapproachable question because everyone is different and has a different playstyle that can vary each game. No one is going to know for sure you are scum (unless you are really really obvious which not a lot of people are in this game -- this could be the due to nature of small sample base and paranoia from town). And no one is going to know for sure you are town. This is why I responded to you to read my meta. You even said that I was acting like this in my "Aliensitter Needed!" game where I was scum. So since I know you have seen my iso and how it was similar to that -- I challenged you to read one of my town games and see the similarities in that. Do you see any differences or similarities? That is up for you to decipher if I am town or scum based on how you see I play the game. I said that you should know its town me because of that -- because you can go back and check my town games and see that I have the similarities I would of as now. This was in rebuttal to in which you scumread me for the "Aliensitter Needed!" hence why I brought up meta in the first place because you said yourself that meta is a good tool to use. And I do agree -- I learned a lot. This is why I actually started to say Zyla was misguided town because of there meta in there newbie game, they are playing in a way that is similar (they even have mentioned it multiple times in the thread so I decided to check it out nd before)

Second -- How do you know me being frustrated is wrong? How would you know I am lying? Do you have sources to back this up? Or is just confirmation bias because you know I am scum in your eyes and so me being frustrated seems wrong. Point out the inaccuracies, inconsistency, and the reasons why you may think its wrong frustration. I was just genuinely frustrated at that game -- you can even see in the game. Heck, I even threatened to hammer myself (which I apologize for) so I just left the thread to calm my self. And now I am more calm. At that point of the game -- I had very much confirmation bias in my head into everyone for people I was townreading and scumreading. And after opening new lights / perceptions -- I see how you could be scum, val be scum, james be town, zyla be scum, alstro be scum, NEE be scum (and everyone who I townread can be scum and everyone who I scumread can be town etc) so I reseted my logic. And started again -- that was that whole post of me in 717, me trying to disassemble my logic and figure out and game solve for once. I was disappointed in myself. So to reiterate the answer to the second question, there was a period where dropped their paranoia about me and james and instantly hopped onto you, that's why I townread you at first then everyone dropped off and YOU started playing more aggressive and it just felt everything to me to come up with any reason to scumread someone -- so you chose me , someone who was already being scumread by half + like all this lobby at one point that can be driven easily by a mislim on me. So GG to you if you are scum, because your plan is working. However, if you are town, I hope you stop pushing me for one second -- look at my possible partners (not t3 -- because that's a blatant sheep, and just again why would I make it obvious I am paired with t3 if I were scum? that isn't smart especially after people started pairing us up either way and T3 continued to say I am town and I continued to say they were town. Yes, we would totally do that as scum |: ) so I suggest for you to look at other pairs that could be viable scum and look at this game if I were town in your eyes -- see how things change.

If you have any further questions, comments, or concerns, feel free to address them to my by replying to this specifically.

[GrandpaMo]

When y’all are ready to move on with the game i’ll revote. Going to sleep IRL now.

can u answee my qusestion u aint answer quick

[GrandpaMo]

i have to go to work and will be back around 4 pm est -- this twindle of a shit show has finally died down a little.

i have a question for u nee .. do you think i would i have done all this as scum?

like you even say in post 790, i am confident in my reads -- well yes I am and I do think I am right because i am town and everyone's perspective could be very much info telling off a mindset switch (look at the post where i saw everyone's reads from townreading to more of scumreading)

and in post 789 - to answer ur question -- nah this was just out of parania, it was to stick any last reads so i can brag about it in post game -- really, but in all seriousness, i do kinda see val being scum but atp i also see u as scum too but u might have just wanted the hammer. but then there is james, the same person who ME AND VAL both pushed all game (who val now pushes me? again this vote makes NO sense here . and i still want someone to explain why does town do that if val is town) , which i am having paranoia -- yes i called them tvt towards the late (this mainly for a reaction) to see how well theytook getting townread like i said so they could analyze the response after i die and solve james allignment better and so val doesnt get to control the vote just incase val is scum -- i can explain this bit more. im in a rush rn and have to go now . so ill ttyl

here

[GrandpaMo]

Thats not answering my questions Grampa.
Why would I know this is town you? You said I should know its town you, not that I should meta check you.

And the part about you being frustrated is just a pile of bollocks.
You even say again that my play style is to call you scum for no reason or weak reason. Where do I do this? Are you saying that my town game I do this?

You said that I have ignored you but you have implied in your response that I have responded to you but you just didn't like the response.

Let me reiterate -- first, that question is an unapproachable question because everyone is different and has a different playstyle that can vary each game. No one is going to know for sure you are scum (unless you are really really obvious which not a lot of people are in this game -- this could be the due to nature of small sample base and paranoia from town). And no one is going to know for sure you are town. This is why I responded to you to read my meta. You even said that I was acting like this in my "Aliensitter Needed!" game where I was scum. So since I know you have seen my iso and how it was similar to that -- I challenged you to read one of my town games and see the similarities in that. Do you see any differences or similarities? That is up for you to decipher if I am town or scum based on how you see I play the game. I said that you should know its town me because of that -- because you can go back and check my town games and see that I have the similarities I would of as now. This was in rebuttal to in which you scumread me for the "Aliensitter Needed!" hence why I brought up meta in the first place because you said yourself that meta is a good tool to use. And I do agree -- I learned a lot. This is why I actually started to say Zyla was misguided town because of there meta in there newbie game, they are playing in a way that is similar (they even have mentioned it multiple times in the thread so I decided to check it out nd before)

Second -- How do you know me being frustrated is wrong? How would you know I am lying? Do you have sources to back this up? Or is just confirmation bias because you know I am scum in your eyes and so me being frustrated seems wrong. Point out the inaccuracies, inconsistency, and the reasons why you may think its wrong frustration. I was just genuinely frustrated at that game -- you can even see in the game. Heck, I even threatened to hammer myself (which I apologize for) so I just left the thread to calm my self. And now I am more calm. At that point of the game -- I had very much confirmation bias in my head into everyone for people I was townreading and scumreading. And after opening new lights / perceptions -- I see how you could be scum, val be scum, james be town, zyla be scum, alstro be scum, NEE be scum (and everyone who I townread can be scum and everyone who I scumread can be town etc) so I reseted my logic. And started again -- that was that whole post of me in 717, me trying to disassemble my logic and figure out and game solve for once. I was disappointed in myself. So to reiterate the answer to the second question, there was a period where dropped their paranoia about me and james and instantly hopped onto you, that's why I townread you at first then everyone dropped off and YOU started playing more aggressive and it just felt everything to me to come up with any reason to scumread someone -- so you chose me , someone who was already being scumread by half + like all this lobby at one point that can be driven easily by a mislim on me. So GG to you if you are scum, because your plan is working. However, if you are town, I hope you stop pushing me for one second -- look at my possible partners (not t3 -- because that's a blatant sheep, and just again why would I make it obvious I am paired with t3 if I were scum? that isn't smart especially after people started pairing us up either way and T3 continued to say I am town and I continued to say they were town. Yes, we would totally do that as scum |: ) so I suggest for you to look at other pairs that could be viable scum and look at this game if I were town in your eyes -- see how things change.

If you have any further questions, comments, or concerns, feel free to address them to my by replying to this specifically.

For the second answer -- it actually addresses to everyone in the game.

So please read the second part where I talk about my thought process through that mini mental breakdown I had.

[GrandpaMo]

Grandpa seems to just be sticking every kind of read towards the wall here. Especially their Val read was quite sudden and came almost out of nowhere.

@GrandpaMo Have you had this read for a long time, or any previous suspicion. Or did you just now start believing Val could be scum?

What did you get out this answer then that I responded to?

[GrandpaMo]

Grandpa claims to have really good meta on T3 being town though. So that might be an potential spew for T3 town if Grandpa flips scum here. I’m considering the possibility that Grandpa pocketed T3.

That was the point I was trying to make. Me as scum wouldn't make us obviously paired here. Unless you resonante about wifom?

[GrandpaMo]

Okay, Grampa is just screaming scum now.

[Post]827[post] is a politician response. Doesn't answer and just re directs to a different point.
Let me confirm.

Grampa said I should know his town game.
I challenge why
Grampa is saying my question is unapproachable and basically only says I should read a town game of his.
The original statement from Grampa is that I should town read them. Me asking why is a logical question that can be answered easily if town. For example "you should know I do X as town". The problem is, when Grampa said I should know this is town him, he was trying to manipulate me.

The Second part, is this.
Grampa wants to know what my reasons are and implies that my reasoning is shit.
I challenge this
Grampa says that people like me don't give reasons or weak reasons and this was said because he was frustrated.
I challenge this again.
Grampa does AtE and only focuses on how would I know if he is frustrated.

You can see the key points that Grampa initiated are being ignored here.

Get this politician off the stand! Boo! Boo Grampa!

This is so manipulative. If you read I actually gave you examples.

[GrandpaMo]

pls let me live t3. u are literally the only one who knows how i play lol

Is this something you would post to a scum partner?
If Grandpa!scum i’m fairly sure T3 town based on these interactions here.

Again, my points exactly. That's why Val's logic is just wrong. No, I am not admitting I am scum -- I am just referencing what Val said earlier.

[GrandpaMo]

I actually find it more scummy that it was an spontaneous read than if you’d had suspicion on Val since early on. I was hoping you’d show evidence of an natural progression to explain your reads, but that was not the response i got.

Did you not see what I said in there -- If you look at the first thing I said to val, you would see I had a thought of Val being scummy.

[GrandpaMo]

Okay, Grampa is just screaming scum now.

827 is a politician response. Doesn't answer and just re directs to a different point.
Let me confirm.

Grampa said I should know his town game.
I challenge why
Grampa is saying my question is unapproachable and basically only says I should read a town game of his.
The original statement from Grampa is that I should town read them. Me asking why is a logical question that can be answered easily if town. For example "you should know I do X as town". The problem is, when Grampa said I should know this is town him, he was trying to manipulate me.

The Second part, is this.
Grampa wants to know what my reasons are and implies that my reasoning is shit.
I challenge this
Grampa says that people like me don't give reasons or weak reasons and this was said because he was frustrated.
I challenge this again.
Grampa does AtE and only focuses on how would I know if he is frustrated.

You can see the key points that Grampa initiated are being ignored here.

Get this politician off the stand! Boo! Boo Grampa!

"Key points" I have said my answers like what 3 times now?

Multiple times -- I have gave you my reasoning and thought process -- I even told it to NEE in post 789 I believe? I am trying to remember on the top my head 00 but I used to reference my source.

You haven't answered my question and nor have done anything I have told you to do. So again, answer my questions -- then maybe you can see how your questions are manipulative. "knowing that i was frustrated" how?

In the game I played with you where I was scum -- you played way differently -- and never pushed me for reasons like these hence why I am asking you to literally yk maybe read the game?

and read my town game and again WHY I KEEP RESORTING TO META because you and I do that.

[GrandpaMo]

I'm telling you now, it's just Grampa and T3.

That is the most basic pair you could do at this point if I was scum in your eyes.

A Val + Grandpa pair is actually way better here for your perspective because you push the POVs through defense but you never have thought of bussing have you?

So if Val was scum irresistible of me being paired -- would you have scumread them for something else?

Again, do what I told you and stop making me bitch you around -- stop pairing me and t3 up and find another one in this game that I could be paired up. then see the game if I was town in your eyes, who would be scum then?

[GrandpaMo]

If Grampa is genuine and thinks I'm scum we can agree that there is scum 100% in us and he will put me to E1 to claim.

Honestly I don't what I want this game. I wanted me to die -- so town could have progressed but hammer stalled (which should show I am town more) and failed so I don't know who to vote or push my ideolistic theories -- because any theory could be scummy in someone else's eyes. I way already scumread by everyone in this lobby at some point.

Also pedit: I hate that vote from cook....

[GrandpaMo]

If Grampa goes quiet now, take that as a scum claim.

What?

[GrandpaMo]

Is this something you would post to a scum partner?

Scum in general? Probably not.

Grandpa specifically? I think they might just. Open up the mafia PT, and the end-game discussion from his scum gameand do a control-f for "wifom".

It's difficult to follow the trademark Grandpa logic, but if you eventually get anything other than the idea that scum Grandpa has the absolute craziest ideas when it comes to that sort of stuff, let me know.

I haven't gone through the game deep enough to figure out if he actually

did

anything quite as crazy, but it's clear he was at least considering it.

You mean wifom to hard defend my scum partner when when my scum partner was getting bussed + voted off by everyone? yea for that LOL

and thats really cuz i was selfish af -- and didnt want to die . i see that more of a town!grandpa doesnt care bout dying vs me as scum which i would try anything not to die

[GrandpaMo]

Okay, Grampa is just screaming scum now.

TL;DR,

(vfp impression)

Oh My God You Suck, GrandpaMo

(normal voice) Sounds like VFP's going today.

VOTE: VFP

can u explain ur vote? and not caost again?


because u voted me ? then now u pivot on to vfp person who i have been pushing??

heck, u even calledme scum and u had reasons but this vote no reasons other than omgus?

can u elaborate this?

[GrandpaMo]

Yes, this is very good.
I'm also thinking of adapting my pool of Grampa buddies which I'll explain soon.

Notice how the votes come over quickly and

everyone

disappears?

LOL ISNT THAT WHAT FUCKING HAPPENED TO ME STOP IT RN VFP

WTF R WE BOTH TOWN NOW????

[GrandpaMo]

Unofficial vote count, please check for accuracy:

Grandpa: James, VFP, (now Val) (3) E-2
VFP: Zyla, Norwee, Cook (3) E-2
Val: Grandpa (1)
Not voting: T3, Alstro (2)

VOTE: GrandpaMo

am i hammereed???

[GrandpaMo]

Unofficial vote count, please check for accuracy:

Grandpa: James, VFP, (now Val) (3) E-2
VFP: Zyla, Norwee, Cook (3) E-2
Val: Grandpa (1)
Not voting: T3, Alstro (2)

VOTE: GrandpaMo

am i hammereed???

o wait nvm i forgot nee pivoted

[GrandpaMo]

It's like everyone is scared of what I'm about to claim

no i can give too less shits -- i claimed vt and if i were scum i would just claim pr so pr can cc.

CLAIM NOW I DARE U

VOTE: VFP

[GrandpaMo]

It's like everyone is scared of what I'm about to claim

no i can give too less shits -- i claimed vt and if i were scum i would just claim pr so pr can cc.

CLAIM NOW I DARE U

VOTE: VFP

[GrandpaMo]

**vfp is probably town... and james is just laughing scum in the back on how get away with us scumreading them**

weird thoughts be like:

[GrandpaMo]

Whilst I note that Grandpa isn't meeting your challenge; are you sure a further claim at this point is good for town?

???


if u read anyything i have said u could see they never met my challenge LOL

and i have double + reiterated my response to vfp just like wit james such a shame

idek whats happening anymore ,, i just wany a lim at this point

[GrandpaMo]

I claim VT

VOTE: VFP

So this is the difference. Scum pretend to want to self hammer here like Grampa did.
I'm proven to always reveal my alignment on hammer town or scum and I'm claiming town here.

There are 3 lock town.

Zyla
Val
James

Alstro is town lean

Meh is
NorwegianboyEE
Cook
Mainly for saving Grampa here.

T3 is scum lean

Grampa is scum 100% get this right a lot more time than now when I I virtually accept a 1v1 here. Grampa has been lying and is playing just like his scum game.

I will always trade 1 for 1 to get scum. Remember that.

WTF

[GrandpaMo]

WHAT JUST HAPPENED - IM SO LOST

[GrandpaMo]

And I had that typed up.
So I say lim Grampa. 100% scum.

Then I say the last scum is 100% in T3 Cook and Nweee.

WHAT SO FUNNY THAT IM NOT EVEN SCUM XD

AND HECK I DIDNT EVEN WANT TO HAMMER MYSELF BECAUSE I FELT LIKE I WOULD BE THROWING JSUT INCASE JAMES WAS TOWN

I do not accept this self vote at all unvote ur self rn !

[GrandpaMo]

smh good luck in post game where u will be realy wrong nd just self hammered for NO reason

[GrandpaMo]

WHAT JUST HAPPENED - IM SO LOST

I don't fuck around when I'm confident on scum, Grampa.
T3 knows this, and T3 knows I'm right a lot more than I'm wrong.

So if T3 still goes against it, it's just T3.

WHAT R U EVEN REFERENCHING.

U LITERALLY TOWNREAD ME THE ONLY TIME I WAS SCUM IN A GAME WIT U ???

[GrandpaMo]

this flips scum i think lol

[GrandpaMo]

I'm proven to never lie about my alignment on hammer lol

VFP PLS TELL ME WHAT R U TALKING BOUT -- I am ltierally so confused right now.

You are acting like I have played scum with you so many times before?

I only have been scum once and only once and somehow you were in that game and you townread me that whole game and died during night 2 or 3.

[GrandpaMo]

I'm telling you now, scum scattered and thought I was claiming a PR there.

nah as town ik u would do sum shit like this

[GrandpaMo]

It's actually the best time to post.

yea it gives info.

i think what vfp is trying to do is make it seem like is vfp is trying to distance for wifom so basically think that i am could be possibly not town becuazse of vfp pushing me and that makes it look like i should be condemned but once vfp flips scum, then i will look so towny in that ppl would startscumreading me for bussing if that makes sense

[GrandpaMo]

Okay, Grampa is just screaming scum now.

827 is a politician response. Doesn't answer and just re directs to a different point.
Let me confirm.

Grampa said I should know his town game.
I challenge why
Grampa is saying my question is unapproachable and basically only says I should read a town game of his.
The original statement from Grampa is that I should town read them. Me asking why is a logical question that can be answered easily if town. For example "you should know I do X as town". The problem is, when Grampa said I should know this is town him, he was trying to manipulate me.

The Second part, is this.
Grampa wants to know what my reasons are and implies that my reasoning is shit.
I challenge this
Grampa says that people like me don't give reasons or weak reasons and this was said because he was frustrated.
I challenge this again.
Grampa does AtE and only focuses on how would I know if he is frustrated.

You can see the key points that Grampa initiated are being ignored here.

Get this politician off the stand! Boo! Boo Grampa!

"Key points" I have said my answers like what 3 times now?

Multiple times -- I have gave you my reasoning and thought process -- I even told it to NEE in post 789 I believe? I am trying to remember on the top my head 00 but I used to reference my source.

You haven't answered my question and nor have done anything I have told you to do. So again, answer my questions -- then maybe you can see how your questions are manipulative. "knowing that i was frustrated" how?

In the game I played with you where I was scum -- you played way differently -- and never pushed me for reasons like these hence why I am asking you to literally yk maybe read the game?

and read my town game and again WHY I KEEP RESORTING TO META because you and I do that.

I'm telling you now, it's just Grampa and T3.

That is the most basic pair you could do at this point if I was scum in your eyes.

A Val + Grandpa pair is actually way better here for your perspective because you push the POVs through defense but you never have thought of bussing have you?

So if Val was scum irresistible of me being paired -- would you have scumread them for something else?

Again, do what I told you and stop making me bitch you around -- stop pairing me and t3 up and find another one in this game that I could be paired up. then see the game if I was town in your eyes, who would be scum then?

Come on Grampa, put me to E1 and I'll claim.

If Grampa goes quiet now, take that as a scum claim.

It's like everyone is scared of what I'm about to claim

no i can give too less shits -- i claimed vt and if i were scum i would just claim pr so pr can cc.

CLAIM NOW I DARE U

VOTE: VFP

Thats not answering my questions Grampa.
Why would I know this is town you? You said I should know its town you, not that I should meta check you.

And the part about you being frustrated is just a pile of bollocks.
You even say again that my play style is to call you scum for no reason or weak reason. Where do I do this? Are you saying that my town game I do this?

You said that I have ignored you but you have implied in your response that I have responded to you but you just didn't like the response.

Let me reiterate -- first, that question is an unapproachable question because everyone is different and has a different playstyle that can vary each game. No one is going to know for sure you are scum (unless you are really really obvious which not a lot of people are in this game -- this could be the due to nature of small sample base and paranoia from town). And no one is going to know for sure you are town. This is why I responded to you to read my meta. You even said that I was acting like this in my "Aliensitter Needed!" game where I was scum. So since I know you have seen my iso and how it was similar to that -- I challenged you to read one of my town games and see the similarities in that. Do you see any differences or similarities? That is up for you to decipher if I am town or scum based on how you see I play the game. I said that you should know its town me because of that -- because you can go back and check my town games and see that I have the similarities I would of as now. This was in rebuttal to in which you scumread me for the "Aliensitter Needed!" hence why I brought up meta in the first place because you said yourself that meta is a good tool to use. And I do agree -- I learned a lot. This is why I actually started to say Zyla was misguided town because of there meta in there newbie game, they are playing in a way that is similar (they even have mentioned it multiple times in the thread so I decided to check it out nd before)

Second -- How do you know me being frustrated is wrong? How would you know I am lying? Do you have sources to back this up? Or is just confirmation bias because you know I am scum in your eyes and so me being frustrated seems wrong. Point out the inaccuracies, inconsistency, and the reasons why you may think its wrong frustration. I was just genuinely frustrated at that game -- you can even see in the game. Heck, I even threatened to hammer myself (which I apologize for) so I just left the thread to calm my self. And now I am more calm. At that point of the game -- I had very much confirmation bias in my head into everyone for people I was townreading and scumreading. And after opening new lights / perceptions -- I see how you could be scum, val be scum, james be town, zyla be scum, alstro be scum, NEE be scum (and everyone who I townread can be scum and everyone who I scumread can be town etc) so I reseted my logic. And started again -- that was that whole post of me in 717, me trying to disassemble my logic and figure out and game solve for once. I was disappointed in myself. So to reiterate the answer to the second question, there was a period where dropped their paranoia about me and james and instantly hopped onto you, that's why I townread you at first then everyone dropped off and YOU started playing more aggressive and it just felt everything to me to come up with any reason to scumread someone -- so you chose me , someone who was already being scumread by half + like all this lobby at one point that can be driven easily by a mislim on me. So GG to you if you are scum, because your plan is working. However, if you are town, I hope you stop pushing me for one second -- look at my possible partners (not t3 -- because that's a blatant sheep, and just again why would I make it obvious I am paired with t3 if I were scum? that isn't smart especially after people started pairing us up either way and T3 continued to say I am town and I continued to say they were town. Yes, we would totally do that as scum |: ) so I suggest for you to look at other pairs that could be viable scum and look at this game if I were town in your eyes -- see how things change.

If you have any further questions, comments, or concerns, feel free to address them to my by replying to this specifically.

[GrandpaMo]

what bout all this? instead of tyring to manipulate words / context to make it seem like they are contradicting, learn how to read first and address your own concerns that you started

[GrandpaMo]

Grampa you're caught scum lol.

again ur just keep on ignorning meeeeeeeeee

[GrandpaMo]

I have shown why you have lied, contradicted and ignored anything on you.

actually no you haven't. you said i keep lying but never point to prove. you ask questions, and i have answered everything + plsu gave you extra theory and tips so u could see possible town me in ur eyes

[GrandpaMo]

Is he already trying his best to dodge the lim tomorrow?

lim me tmr then.

do it.

i want everyone to vote me once this flips scum smh

[GrandpaMo]

Is he already trying his best to dodge the lim tomorrow?

Yes. Now bringing up posts that I've already responded to.

again lying here. u never respoined to anything i have asked u

[GrandpaMo]

Okay, Grampa is just screaming scum now.

827 is a politician response. Doesn't answer and just re directs to a different point.
Let me confirm.

Grampa said I should know his town game.
I challenge why
Grampa is saying my question is unapproachable and basically only says I should read a town game of his.
The original statement from Grampa is that I should town read them. Me asking why is a logical question that can be answered easily if town. For example "you should know I do X as town". The problem is, when Grampa said I should know this is town him, he was trying to manipulate me.

The Second part, is this.
Grampa wants to know what my reasons are and implies that my reasoning is shit.
I challenge this
Grampa says that people like me don't give reasons or weak reasons and this was said because he was frustrated.
I challenge this again.
Grampa does AtE and only focuses on how would I know if he is frustrated.

You can see the key points that Grampa initiated are being ignored here.

Get this politician off the stand! Boo! Boo Grampa!

"Key points" I have said my answers like what 3 times now?

Multiple times -- I have gave you my reasoning and thought process -- I even told it to NEE in post 789 I believe? I am trying to remember on the top my head 00 but I used to reference my source.

You haven't answered my question and nor have done anything I have told you to do. So again, answer my questions -- then maybe you can see how your questions are manipulative. "knowing that i was frustrated" how?

In the game I played with you where I was scum -- you played way differently -- and never pushed me for reasons like these hence why I am asking you to literally yk maybe read the game?

and read my town game and again WHY I KEEP RESORTING TO META because you and I do that.

where is ur response to this? no where

[GrandpaMo]

Look at how Grampa is posting towards me now.
Thats not town posting towards someone who just said I'm still flipping scum

idek what this means

[GrandpaMo]

Is he already trying his best to dodge the lim tomorrow?

Yes. Now bringing up posts that I've already responded to.

again lying here. u never respoined to anything i have asked u

I responded to your posts. You're responses were dodges from my questions and I pointed this out.

You're fucked tomorrow Grampa no way around it.

ur flipping scum in like 30 mins lol .

[GrandpaMo]

Is he already trying his best to dodge the lim tomorrow?

Yes. Now bringing up posts that I've already responded to.

again lying here. u never respoined to anything i have asked u

I responded to your posts. You're responses were dodges from my questions and I pointed this out.

You're fucked tomorrow Grampa no way around it.

nah u just wanted everyone to vote u so u can claim vt no real rebuttal to that. i never doged anything. i have answered u and u havent told me to explain anything

pedit: thats wrong -- if u read the full post u can see where i have talked bout me of what YOU said. meta was just to reiterate something u already had known

[GrandpaMo]

where is ur response to this? no where

But there's nothing different there to what I already said you were dodging.
You said I should read you as town.
You then say I should read your game to see you as town.

That's 2 different statements.

is scumreading someone and scumreading someone because they play like there scum playstyle different?

no its not -- the general consensus leads to them scumreading that person

[GrandpaMo]

ur flipping scum in like 30 mins lol .

I've been on this site for many years.
I can tell you all that this is scum that is trying to go for the "omg I didn't know".

Just read over the last 10 pages.

Something that scum Grampa does is repeat the same shot even when it's said, double posts and spams the thread to make it more confusing.

For this I will not address Grampa from here on out and prove he will try to drone out this post.

Grampa has lied a fuck ton in this game, and the AtE is so fake my fish could tell it wasn't genuine.

again not addressing anything lolol . just stop talking ur caught scum also years? what? it says march 2021 ... is this an alt or something?

[GrandpaMo]

ur flipping scum in like 30 mins lol .

I've been on this site for many years.
I can tell you all that this is scum that is trying to go for the "omg I didn't know".

Just read over the last 10 pages.

Something that scum Grampa does is repeat the same shot even when it's said, double posts and spams the thread to make it more confusing.

For this I will not address Grampa from here on out and prove he will try to drone out this post.

Grampa has lied a fuck ton in this game, and the AtE is so fake my fish could tell it wasn't genuine.

oh also u are straight up lying bout that. go look at my town game in the neighborhood games. i did the same shit every game i am in.

[GrandpaMo]

Signature change?
Also I've reread the last 15~ pages and I'm still so lost by the whole "It was an act the whole time" from GrandpaMo.

dw ur not alone im lost too

if vfp is town idk wtf they just did
if vfp is scum which i think so then yea i knew it

[GrandpaMo]

wait a minute fuck hang on wait god huh

that was my reaction too lol

[GrandpaMo]

VFP confbias intensifies.

wait u can still claim masons wit me omg D:

[GrandpaMo]

can mafia do a huge favor to town and lim me? because using me as lim bait for tmr won't do nothing for town but just make it confusing and we wikll eventually solve the game as possible scum either way.

[GrandpaMo]

Is it customary that the thread locks without warning once the mod is ready, in other words, should I just post what I have as I have it rather than risking taking the time to make one long post?

just say what u gotta say it won't do nothing imo

[GrandpaMo]

alstro pls carry tmr . i belive in alstro and t3

yk what since t3 cant claim masons wit me can u claim wit me pls

[GrandpaMo]

GrandpaMo:

town!grandpa doesnt care bout dying

Also GrandpaMo, after someone

else

gets hammered:

"Claim Mason with me! Claim Mason with me! No, YOU claim Mason with me!"

um isnt it obvious that i really dont care

cant i not meme

[GrandpaMo]

VFP accidentally self-hammers by posting nearly simultaneously with Grandpa.

It wasnt an.accident.
It's a trade.

my friend

we both scum and u just voted ur self

now im gonna get voted tmr because of u and we are going to lose smhhhh

[GrandpaMo]

we both scum and u just voted ur self

You meant to type you are both "town" here and slipped, just like in you did in your last scum game, didn't you??

i always refer to town as third person. im doing it this game too lol ur point is?

[GrandpaMo]

hence why i didnt think i slipped in post game lol

[GrandpaMo]

I'm just going to say, Grampa.
If your only play as scum is to use AtE, it just feels a bit disgusting to me.
AtE to me is something that should be boarder line outside influence when used like this, but that's just my opinion.

bro wtf is ate

[GrandpaMo]

ive been ignorning u and this thing about AtE, but idek what u are talking bout now

[GrandpaMo]

And we'd likely still want to go for Grandpa at that point.

No, there is no

likely

about it. Bar some super improbable game shattering event, We lim Grandpa tomorrow 100%. No point town!VFP 'trading' if we let the scum his trade catches walk free.

actually i have a question for you. tell me why you scumread me? also don't mention anything of the past 10 pages.

mention stuff i did scummy in the begiining the game because you townread me in the beginning and pushed james.

so i understand ur initial pivot. but does this mean you think james is town now?

what can you think of that can build a scum case on me without mentioning anything on the way i talk, or my playstyle really. (generally in the last 10 pages)

[GrandpaMo]

Even so, there is a difference between referring to town in the third person, and calling yourself "both scum".

lol flailing scum tryna make anything to make me look scum

like yk what i meant and its so obvious that im just fucking around wit u atp.

ur just taking advantage of it

[GrandpaMo]

ive been ignorning u and this thing about AtE, but idek what u are talking bout now

Appeal to Emotion
An appeal to emotion is a particularly devious sort of fallacious argument, particularly in a game of unknowns such as Mafia. "If you eliminate me, you'll lose!" is an easy example, but there are many others, played by both/all Factions in most games at some point. The nature of the game lends itself to appeals to fear or hope or trust.

This tactic is in general very effective against people who are not aware of it. As such, deploying it in a Mafia game with experienced players tends to backfire, as they'll be aware that you're trying to manipulate them, behaviour which is more typically seen coming from scum than from town.

oh i just do it out of geninune frustration / confusion

[GrandpaMo]

No, you don't.
And I stand by what I said.

can you tell me why not?

you've never really address this.

ok ok so now you may respond wit yes u did.

now pretend i didnt see it and this is the first time im asking u this.

now asnwer again why do you think i am lying bout my frustration? also im looking for a specific thing -- and if you mention it anywhere in ur quote i will scumread u even more even tho ur hammered idc tho it gets me happy points for me as well

[GrandpaMo]

Even so, there is a difference between referring to town in the third person, and calling yourself "both scum".

lol flailing scum tryna make anything to make me look scum

like yk what i meant and its so obvious that im just fucking around wit u atp.

ur just taking advantage of it

@Val89 just kill me at night ok? its not worth to make thse arguements just to waste a day to vote on me. i mean its underatandable from ur side cuz ur scum. but u being persistant to keep saying i should be the vote tmr is scum imo

wait if there is cop pls cop check me omg game will be solved holy shit -- DO NOT THROW I STG AND CHECK ME

[GrandpaMo]

lets play the silent game -- whoever talks next is scum and gets limmed tmr >:D

[GrandpaMo]

I can see why you think it works and it's your only go to.
I've played enough games to know what you're doing isn't genuine. I've seen the same pattern of responses from angry / confused / sad etc etc many, and I mean many times.

The response from the fake hammer you slipped up several times showing that your emotion was genuine as annoyed or upset to be hammered. You are doubling down each time you say you believed it was a hammer.

I don't standardly use AtE as reasoning in games but it's all you offer. I could pull up over 50 posts from today where you are trying the AtE. You know exactly what you are trying to do.

I get playing to the end as scum, and I will always appreciate people that play as scum until the very end... but what you do is no different to me saying "sorry I couldn't post for the last 2 days because my cat died" when I don't even own a cat.
It's just boarder line outside influence and I really think you need to adjust this in the future.
You don't have even half as much AtE in your town games. Take it as you will, throw some more AtE my way, claim I didn't answer you just because the answer isn't being nice over it... I can see through it, and you're general scum meta will be considered as AtE.

what happens if i flip town tho? will my general town meta be ate?

[GrandpaMo]

tell me why you scumread me? also don't mention anything of the past 10 pages.

I have no words. Why not make it the last 38 pages?

so u can basically scumread me but dont have anything to scumcase me on. look at what i said. i said dont mention anything of the past 10 pages because that is where you thought i was weird and thought i was scum. i am challenging to look at me if u caught me scum in the beginning. again just deflecting -- just answer it -- it shouldnt be hard because you have agreeed wit me on everything against james but somehow i am scum all of a sudden

does this mean you think james is town now?

Yes, as embarrassing as it is for me, I do. I'll be spending some time going over the Grandpa/James interactions to make sure we aren't being led up the garden path, but right now, I think I can locktown James and extend a "Sorry".

am i not the one who asked alstro that me and james could be tvt? to actually look at this frankly u have been sheeping me this whole game lol

wait if there is cop pls cop check me omg game will be solved holy shit -- DO NOT THROW I STG AND CHECK ME

If we are in a cop game, and whomever it is falls for that one, I shall be sorely disappointed.

why they wouldnt want to check me? its optimal for cop to check me night 1 lol

lets play the silent game -- whoever talks next is scum and gets limmed tmr >:D

Lim me. You won't.

so james is all town for all of a sudden?

@nee didn't you push me for bringing up a val scumread outta of no where -- dont u think this is equivlant to that?

im still confused wit ur logic val and it just seems u been ignorning the whole narrative that we were paired up once but now u quickly tried to distance urself --heck u even said i could be used as bait, ironically enough ur voting me now sad!

and also haha! u claimed scum haah!!! u scumslipped hahahah! VOTE: val89

[GrandpaMo]

tell me why you scumread me? also don't mention anything of the past 10 pages.

I have no words. Why not make it the last 38 pages?

does this mean you think james is town now?

Yes, as embarrassing as it is for me, I do. I'll be spending some time going over the Grandpa/James interactions to make sure we aren't being led up the garden path, but right now, I think I can locktown James and extend a "Sorry".

wait if there is cop pls cop check me omg game will be solved holy shit -- DO NOT THROW I STG AND CHECK ME

If we are in a cop game, and whomever it is falls for that one, I shall be sorely disappointed.

lets play the silent game -- whoever talks next is scum and gets limmed tmr >:D

Lim me. You won't.

wait i messed that up

1. so u can basically scumread me but dont have anything to scumcase me on. look at what i said. i said dont mention anything of the past 10 pages because that is where you thought i was weird and thought i was scum. i am challenging to look at me if u caught me scum in the beginning. again just deflecting -- just answer it -- it shouldnt be hard because you have agreeed wit me on everything against james but somehow i am scum all of a sudden

2. m i not the one who asked alstro that me and james could be tvt? to actually look at this frankly u have been sheeping me this whole game lol

3. why they wouldnt want to check me? its optimal for cop to check me night 1 lol

4. haha! u claimed scum haah!!! u scumslipped hahahah! VOTE: val89

conclusion:

so james is all town for all of a sudden?

@nee didn't you push me for bringing up a val scumread outta of no where -- dont u think this is equivlant to that?

im still confused wit ur logic val and it just seems u been ignorning the whole narrative that we were paired up once but now u quickly tried to distance urself --heck u even said i could be used as bait, ironically enough ur voting me now sad![/color]

[GrandpaMo]

Zyla has been killed. She was a

vanilla townie

.

wack kill

[GrandpaMo]

ok so i forgot about this game .. and this is awkward -- i don't where to go since im playing in other games but...

i might need to read the whole game over again so just giv me a sec, and i will probably post a wallpost where it is actually comprehendable

[GrandpaMo]

That means a scum player could pre-empt a hammer, forcing us into ELo tomorrow.

It'd only be ElO if Grandpa is town here.
Is that what you're suggesting?

that's true, and considering that scum didn't hammer at that point...

VOTE: GrandpaMo

I think this may be a scum.

wtf is this lol... you unvote and and assume im town then u vote back. would scum be that obvious lol

[GrandpaMo]

Cook searches her coat. "I left my random vote in here somewhere... AHA! Wait, don't want to cast a vote for T3..."

LOL no way cook called out their mafia here lfmaofaoafoafa -- that would actually be hilarious

[GrandpaMo]

ok so i forgot about this game .. and this is awkward -- i don't where to go since im playing in other games but...

i might need to read the whole game over again so just giv me a sec, and i will probably post a wallpost where it is actually comprehendable

How is it possible to forget an game you played since just two days ago if i may ask?

its my first time trying to multi game with 3 games i think? haha

i meant like i forgot i was in this game because of it being in night -- i just need to get everything back in my head by rereading the game

[GrandpaMo]

I’ve played multi-games concurrently and never forget anything if i’m at the level of engagement you’ve clearly been in.
Are you sure that’s not an excuse?

its not about forgetting -- its more of like "oh i just needa check again what happened here or happened there" etc. like i obviously know the big stuff that happened since you know that affected eod etc but the minor stuff may need to get reevaulated again once i read the game again

[GrandpaMo]

wait wait @james or can anyone answer this?

if there is no hammer, can there still be an elim?

[GrandpaMo]

why does scum fakeclaim fn here?

cant fn like prove to maybe alstro -- or maybe james who is never scum with them

[GrandpaMo]

k... i thought cook was scum -- and i was going to scumcase them but wait ...


i am forgetting about fake claims. but why does mafia claim FN? when they can easily confirm themselves through another trusted player. i feel like since no prs have been outted -- it would be optimal to stay quiet and assume that cook is FN.

so, if cook is town. and i still believe T3 is town as well.

voting pool would consist of NEE, James, Val, Alstro

I also believe James is town and this day proves it -- I can formulate a whole towncase on them now if needed.

And alstro I had was thought since day 1... but also NEE.

Only person I had scum was Val, so if I assume Val is scum and then other scum just lies between Alstro / NEE

[GrandpaMo]

Reading back eod, I felt like Val played smart.

I just dug my own grave and Val had townread me because they thought scum would just take advantage of this + also they thought both scum was on this wagon. But instantly pivots as I start relapsing more of my thoughts and found that opportunity to quickly pivot onto me. Them scumreading me, was very very weird to me. It was also right after I scumread them too after my crazy theory -- which now I may think its right...

So it obviously felt like an omgus for me. Does anyone else see that?

It just felt so "fake" and backstabbing like for Val to do especially when they have pushed James with me all of day one and then instantly pivots to me the person who pushed James with them over just a series of last posts? It felt weird to me.

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: T3
Putting my vote here while i wait for Cook/their supposed target.

If Cook get’s confirmed town and T3 was not the target then i’m sussing T3 for their awkward timing and claiming to townread Cook that way.

Why would scum point out that tho...? Wouldn't have it been helpful to hide PRs for scum's advantage and silently kill them at night?

It just felt not right. Also the redactions thing -- I doubt they will risk themselves hiding that info. Shit, I did that too lol.

[GrandpaMo]

I feel like im missing somehting lol

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: T3
Putting my vote here while i wait for Cook/their supposed target.

If Cook get’s confirmed town and T3 was not the target then i’m sussing T3 for their awkward timing and claiming to townread Cook that way.

Why would scum point out that tho...? Wouldn't have it been helpful to hide PRs for scum's advantage and silently kill them at night?

It just felt not right. Also the redactions thing -- I doubt they will risk themselves hiding that info. Shit, I did that too lol.

I don’t know if i’m still tired because i haven’t had my coffee yet or what. But i don’t really understand any of the points you’ve just said.

ill explain later

[GrandpaMo]

Did you spot the crumbs prior to day 2 beginning?

I did, but being as obvious as they were, I wasn't sure if it was a red herring or not before I actually got the mod message; and in any case, I didn't consider appropriate to point them out yesterday.

For the record, I didn't find T3 scummy for this (in fact, given the small size of Cook's ISO, I was starting to get scum vibes from those claiming NOT to have spotted it, even when directed towards to the ISO, but given that more than one player has implied they didn't see it, I'm going to consider it NAI for now), but I did already start to consider T3 suspicious for the play around Grandpa yesterday.

Since my read on T3 is only a matter of playing the probabilities (my second biggest candidate for a Grandpa scum partner after T3 is actually yourself, Norwee) and seeing Grandpa flip scum will erase any residual doubt I have about James, I still think Grandpa is the lim for today.

I should also point out that Zyla's first-hand knwoledge re: T3s scum play as per 562 may be another possible reason for a Zyla kill last night.

this sounds geninue af bruh ...


could alstro be scum here lol

[GrandpaMo]

Not really. There was just no way of pointing it out yesterday without also laying it out for scum - Cooks' ISO was about all of about 10 posts - and if I had, I doubt they would have survived the night for you to have your evidence.

All in all, I'm happy with the way I've played this. I breadcrumbed that something happened last night in 1004, but I didn't think outting it straight away was the correct play. I'm sure someone can correct me if I should have done something different for my own reference next time this comes up in post game.

that's not really a breadcrumb imo ... anyone could have said that --- ig yea it can be but it can also be one of those bias

you say something not related >>> then stimuli >>> then apply stimuli to the nonrelated making it correlatad.

[GrandpaMo]

I think if we going into the night with only one scum alive, yes, it's a town win.

We are 5v2 right now. We are in column B, so Mafia aren't doing any roleblocking. Cook is conftown. We either have a tracker or a jailkeep.

Let's say we elim Grandpa today and they flip scum, which I find highly probable; then I suspect the other scum is in T3 or Norwee, leaning towards T3. Either PR targets whomever they find scummiest. The remaining scum has to decide whether to try for the kill and risk being outted by the PR if they don't hit them, and, unless the rolecop hit the other PR last night, they only have a 25% of hitting the other PR if we don't force them to out today. The other scum else has to decide to do nothing in order to put suspicion onto the person who does get JK'd/tracked; hope the town PR targets the wrong person, and go into D3 5v1; with a conftown alive - something I can't see a single scum doing.

If we elim either T3 or Norwee today, and we guess wrong, then the other town PR has to guess which of the scum is doing the killing, and things get dicey. Limming Grandpa is the play today, unless there is still anyone who thinks they are flipping town and 2 scum are going to go through to night 2; and I don't think there is anyone left seriously reading Grandpa as town now (apart from T3, who is sus themselves), right?

If we do give scum!Grandpa the boot today, then even if we hit the wrong one tomorrow, I think we've time to take out the other on D4 even in the unlikley event the remaining scum does manage to get both kills off and not get outted by the remaing PR on D3. (2 town v 1 scum is a town win, if the scum is known, right?).

so ima just assume ur ignorning me and have ignorned my scumcase on me lol.

but uh if we are going me. pls dont lim t3, he is town. town will most likely lose this instead @james. its very highly probable because scum is univerally controlling the game and how we are thinking, they are also possibly UST such as maybe alstro? there is a chance nee is scum with val.

[GrandpaMo]

I think if we going into the night with only one scum alive, yes, it's a town win.

We are 5v2 right now. We are in column B, so Mafia aren't doing any roleblocking. Cook is conftown. We either have a tracker or a jailkeep.

Let's say we elim Grandpa today and they flip scum, which I find highly probable; then I suspect the other scum is in T3 or Norwee, leaning towards T3. Either PR targets whomever they find scummiest. The remaining scum has to decide whether to try for the kill and risk being outted by the PR if they don't hit them, and, unless the rolecop hit the other PR last night, they only have a 25% of hitting the other PR if we don't force them to out today. The other scum else has to decide to do nothing in order to put suspicion onto the person who does get JK'd/tracked; hope the town PR targets the wrong person, and go into D3 5v1; with a conftown alive - something I can't see a single scum doing.

If we elim either T3 or Norwee today, and we guess wrong, then the other town PR has to guess which of the scum is doing the killing, and things get dicey. Limming Grandpa is the play today, unless there is still anyone who thinks they are flipping town and 2 scum are going to go through to night 2; and I don't think there is anyone left seriously reading Grandpa as town now (apart from T3, who is sus themselves), right?

If we do give scum!Grandpa the boot today, then even if we hit the wrong one tomorrow, I think we've time to take out the other on D4 even in the unlikley event the remaining scum does manage to get both kills off and not get outted by the remaing PR on D3. (2 town v 1 scum is a town win, if the scum is known, right?).

ok ima ask u this question which u will probably ignore like all the time u have...

if i flip town, which i will, who would you suspect?

you just have confbias at that point from yesterday. you aren't even looking at this from your original narrative that you first pushed that scum could be taking advantage of this and you are just falling into their trap.

you even pointed that they killled zyla for the reason to probably get a lim on cook.

which then cook claimed FN and targeted you....

[GrandpaMo]

I don't think this game will advance any other way than eliminating Grandpa here.

yea just kill me.

town advantages ig.

should i vote for myself here? i dont wanna waste any time

[GrandpaMo]

I don't think this game will advance any other way than eliminating Grandpa here.

u could be scum for this tho lol

ima just stick my vote to u for now

VOTE: norweignee

[GrandpaMo]

sorry for the spam post but i am willing to vote anyone town is willing to vote for including myself

[GrandpaMo]

Don't selfvote.

i mean yea I REALLY dont want to but its like town is already gonna be voting me lol so whats the point anymore? but i keep saying it , probably wont do it ultimally

[GrandpaMo]

I don't think this game will advance any other way than eliminating Grandpa here.

u could be scum for this tho lol

ima just stick my vote to u for now

VOTE: norweignee

You realize i could hammer you right now? Why do you keep making me want to do it?

oh im on hammer. pog

[GrandpaMo]

In retrospect, I now see the crumbs and feel like a fool.

its very highly probable because scum is univerally controlling the game and how we are thinking, they are also possibly UST such as maybe alstro?

what's UST?

Anyway, the way I see it, with the pool as NEE, Grandpa, James, T3, and Val... I have been TR-ing Val pretty much from the get-go and have come around on James. I'm also reasonably confident that Grandpa flips red so it's down to NEE or T3 in my eyes. But considering NEE brought Grandpa to H-1 yesterday and kept the vote on for a few hundred posts, I think it's less likely. T3 had a vote on Grandpa for awhile too but not at as crucial of a point. I also agree that there was no

need

per se to get the FN claim out of Cook this early (though it ended up being helpful, and with the momentum of the day it's possible Cook would've gotten to H-1). T3 has also been TR-ing Grandpa fairly consistently. Either way, if we are right about Grandpa then that gives us a miselim to figure it out, right?

I want to check some T3 past games just to check meta but that's where my head is at.

i will ask u the question that i asked val...

if i flip town, which i will -- who will u then sus?

[GrandpaMo]

@james what made u back off me?

[GrandpaMo]

I don't know why you all opted to vote GrandpaMo over T3 to be honest. Mo was just flailing. Solid cases against T3 existed.

yes i was sad

[GrandpaMo]

Glad yall enjoyed. Hope to continue to see everyone around the site.

hope to play wit u mayb in the future