Silent Star 4: Yin and Yang

[Tanner]

because you're confirmed town and our margin of error is very slim. i know that, if you're not convinced on me, then you have to get all the other 4 correctly before both scum. those are significantly worse odds.

if you're wondering why i'm talking about this *right now*, because it's past 2am and i'm tired as shit, but i'm not going to bed yet and i wanna participate in the game while i'm here, but the only thing i have the brain for right now is responding to my own name.

[Tanner]

why are you quoting that?

[Tanner]

considering that the current list of criminals is nakata/infinity/tanner/chara, i don't see how that's useful?

[Tanner]

i really wish i could keep my mouth shut here, but... he didn't, zero is an even number.

he's still blatantly lied about there being 3 factions and you should ignore him, but uh, yeah.

[Tanner]

i am always awesome how fucking dare you

[Tanner]

hammer testing? i love hammer testing where do i sign up

also i just thought it was funny how, like 2 days ago, i play a townhunting setup and i'm shit at it, and i think "ok that was bad, i'm not playing townhunting bullshit again"

and then the madlad hectic does this

ok out for real now how is it already 3:30am

[Tanner]

actually i'm not

re infinity/flea - i'm not sure we can assume that everything in this game went to scum's plan? like, in an infinity/flea world, how do you know that they planned for infy to go down but not flea? if memory serves me (it may not), infinity was actually trying early game, and i vaguely remember flea being... weirdly absent amd mostly talking mech? (granted idk faer usual townplay to frain of salt etc) i don't think it's impossible to imagine them agreeing that flea falls first, but then the thread just going after infinity. even associate-wise, flea's play around infinity was really ~weird (sitting on my wagon, then sitting on nakata's), while her associates with nakata seem like more straightforward distancing.

this is not to say i think fae is scum, i'm still as lost on that slot as ever, but putting it out there.

[Tanner]

i really wish i could keep my mouth shut here, but... he didn't, zero is an even number.

he's still blatantly lied about there being 3 factions and you should ignore him, but uh, yeah.

There is town, there is scum, there's the Yin/Yang. 3 factions. It's semantics.

yin and yang are confirmed to be opposites of one another, yang is in the mason pt with amy, while yin blew up ircher *and* his eyes turned red... but semantics, sure.

[Tanner]

i am ready to scream at any two of clidd/pooky/chara/amy that i need so that they vote for me, i write a "not hammering myself" post so that we can see flea's head explode. and theni'm hammering myself and getting out of here.

[Tanner]

correct.

[Tanner]

yeah Tanner's big readlist is top tier, his stances this whole game have pretty much avoided ever pushing or even lowkey pushing scum. +he has been driven insane in real time

i was the one who strongmanned the infy wagon through?

[Tanner]

yes? i had multiple manic fits when people were trsing to wagon ircher while infy was doing things that screamed scum to me??? like that's what made me lose my shit in the first place???

[Tanner]

trying to* this fucking keyboard

i was strongly in favour of both infinity and robert lmfao

[Tanner]

datisi can you do your famous triangle thing

i don't know why you keep asking for those when historically whenever you've seen me do one, it was an utter disaster

but sure. for that i need to actually relook at things. will try to get it up today. like, my today, so within the next 6 hours.

[Tanner]

i'm rereading parts of the game, and i came to the point where robert admitted to faking the vig claim, just as his wagon was going down. robert and ircher were the ones to then take the wagon from y-4 to y-2. and i know around that time i said i was thinking if robert might be town (2558) because it didn't quite make sense to me that scum!robert gives up on the claim just as he's getting out of the fire.

nobody exactly took me up on that offer, but pooky and tweetie ended up voting for nakata, before clidd and pooky decided to hammer robert anyway. i'm... not sure that scum!clidd does this? like, people are running around discussing other slots, does scum!clidd cut all that short in 2623? genuine question to the table, i reread some parts of clidd's iso and came out with a solid scumread, so this is doing... not good things to me right now.

[Tanner]

just as his wagon was going down

by this i mean, just as his wagon was deflating.

[Tanner]

and this isn't how clidd deepwolves, is it... if he was scum, he's one of the designated deepwolves. and i seem to recall a game modded by schadd where he was scum and was the designated deepwolf and did posted like, a *lot* more (i only skimmed that game and it was really long ago so forgive if i'm off a bit) and this just... doesn't seem like it?

and i'm so confused now because when i was looking at votecounts of day 1 and some of his d1 posts and i was like "ok clidd is scum one down one to go" but now i want to die

my current "this is probably not it, but holy shit i will laugh if this is it" solve is flea/chara

chara, sorry i'm a lazy fuck, but did you go deeper into why tweetie is scum anywhere?

[Tanner]

yes i know, and originally i thought you were scummy for it, but the placing around the robert wagon just makes no damn sense. and especially if you're scum here, i thinkyour partner would have to be ydra or tweetie because i highly doubt scum!you goes "fuck you fuck this let's spare these three townies" and gets his team into that mess

but if you're not scum who the fuck is

[Tanner]

like my reads on ydra/tweetie weren't even based around on flips, they were moreso based around my prior exp with them, the mindmelds, the way they approached my slot etc and uuuuugh

if the above is right, then it's between pooky/chara/flea and like nothing makes sense there either

maybe i should start talking after i've reviewed pooky i don't have much faith there

[Tanner]

i actually have a crack theory on flea/chara it's that bad

[Tanner]

i actually have a crack theory on flea/chara it's that bad

and yet in spite of myself i kind of want to hear it.

ok so this is not exactly my current thoughts, more like a universe i am considering, but:

so first of all, flea's play this game didn't make sense to me at all. and i'm not talking the mech stuff, i'm talking the votepark on me on d1 and then votepark on nakata and it's all odd. however i think it makes at least some sense if we assume/guess that flea was one of the people that was destined to fall early rather than infinity or nakata. if it seems like fae was consistently trying to single me out, it's not far fetched that someone thinks of us as psrtners. especially since i wasn't exactly attacking fae in return, which could easily be swept as scum wifom. (i mean almost anything can be but you know what i mean.)

the thing that i found really *really* odd is that flea never voted chara even though chara fit the bill of criminal, *and* chara was lower in faer reads than i was. this was excused by flea saying that fae usually doesn't have much faith in faer reads, but it still feels... backwards??

i can't say that flea refusing to play the game is completely scum!indicative bc apparently they're capable of playing it properly as scum so idk.

(sidenote i just realized, pooky said that no? and yet wasn't he on clidd's ass for not providing reads saying that that is scum!indicative but giving flea a pass for that? idk a note to check that later)

but like, i can kind of see flea's plan here of oppose my yeet, then once it happens anyway, do a 180 and push chara through?

actually as i type that out i'm slightly less convinced that that is the case because if that happened, i'm not sure flea gets out of here, but my earlier points of "flea wanting to murder me for being a criminal but completely ignoring chara in that regard" is still valid i think

somewhere along the way this turned into a "hey maybe the team is pooky/flea" but uh i will think about that later, i'm going for a walk now, enjoy this wordvomit i guess

[Tanner]

can we not vote the people who townread me out first please :/

also uhh. was busy with other things tonight. definitely doing stuff soon still.

[Tanner]

hello, i have spent the day having depression naps and now it's past 3am again. i will read what has been posted and try to force myself to actually work on something tomorrow. though i did skim a bit, and one of the posts from pooky made me think that ydra has actually been pocketing me the whole game, and uh. but also it made me think pooky is town which means that i'm running low on scumreads again and ok will get to reading now

[Tanner]

i haven't reread so i'm going a lot off of memory right now; tanner's pushes being the exact same as mine all game and having the same sort of turns when i do

ok this is gonna be a general response, but... have we really? i definitely don't think we've been samebraining the *whole* game, like i locktowned you for the infy push with me (which uh. uhhh.) and then later on i really loved the conviction on robert but thinking back to that, i remember getting fooled by the Loudness and Emotion that scum!you can have when needed (so i shouldn't take that into account really) and i also loved the you calling out the vig claim as bad, but like... actually lemme skim that. ok, the only "counterwagon" at the time was me, and maaaybe flea. oh, and scum!ydra would've known that claim was bullshit most likely, as there's like no was town has a vig when *that* is their actual wincon right?

god ydra can you iron out your read on me a bit more? i know it's been "mindmeld" but can you like, actually talk about which parts and why and etc

[Tanner]

but like, does scum!ydra, with what we know, go "gais i wanna vote infinity, and then if infinity is red i think nakata not wanting to vote her out is partner/partner hehe". i was honestly really *really* impressed by that read because i genuinely didn't think the "infy will be readable later" by nakata was indicative of anything but *gestures vaguely* silent star

[Tanner]

re 3347: pooky, i did not remember that post at all, and reading past!me talking about how ydra is being very weird in not wanting to vote robert and thinking they're aligned is not doing good things to my mental health right now. i'll check the context, hold on.

ok, it was the fight with nakata, where nakata was like "we should flip robert he's flipping anyway" and ydrasse was like "no you're scum". now that nakata altslipped, i feel like i can add some context here (as i knew who he was at the time) - that mindset is very *very* much within his town!meta. which is why i said that if robert was scum, i'd consider nakata locktown, because i really really do not believe he does that to a partner. of course, it would be unfair to scumread ydrasse over not knowing meta when she potentially didn't know who nakata was (and i say potentially because i know nakata has a habit of revealing his alts to scumbuddies), but. jesus fuck i am actually thinking that that interaction could be fake pooky whaT HAVE YOU DONE

(note i didn't read the huge wall ydra posted while i was typing)

[Tanner]

i do think you've expressed certain emotions that you can't fake as scum (or maybe you could actually? the only time i've seen you do it i think was theater in that one normal game)

^^ this is the part i'm most interested in when you're feeling better again. my memory (both of this game and of 2175) is a bit hazy currently, but i really wanna see you elaborate on this, because i do remember 2175 as a game where i lost my nerves a couple of times in the main thread.

and re the last part: you're absolutely right that i would definitely *not* want to be on the deepwolfing side of the scumteam. but like, in all of my scumgames i'm either alive in the endgame with buddies or i'm the last scum standing (and in the two games where that wasn't the case, the game was going wrong in every way possible and the entire team fell apart after my slot died). so uh, this is obviously based on speculation of an alternate universe, but i really don't think that me being here should be a cause to townread me, because i somehow just always end up in that role as scum.

part of me is wondering if this read angle of townreading me is just supposed to be a pocket, considering you didn't really mention it before, and i have fallen off a bit recently (though it's not ai, i'm genuinely feeling like shit, but for the argument) and i'm kinda hmming but maybe i'm tunneling my own paranoia, i'll reread this again tomorrow

[Tanner]

clidd, what's your solve again? you seem willing to vote like, 4 people here.

[Tanner]

the emotions i recall vividly from that game are you being very irritated/angry but knowing now that /that/ sort of thing you do fake; i was using it as a a gauge of, "i don't think he does the smaller irritations and petty things"; there was one post it hinka bout voting robert ? or infinity d1 that was what i was using as a good baseline for "things tanner doesn't need to post if scum at all and runs the risk of being seen as fake if he doesn't /actually/ feel those things"

i also do think i have mentioned at least part of this before? the emotional aspect i'm positive i have because that's like, one of the main pins in how i read people

i'm gonna need like, actual links. it's fine if you don't feel like it right now, i'm not in the state to process it either.

and yeah, the last part was about the "tanner wouldn't willingly torture himself by going to the Stage Two" read. the more i think about it, the more it sounds like a read you slap on because it sounds cool and fancy, but again, trying not to jump to conclusions here.

[Tanner]

i just spent 15 minutes typing up a post about nakata not being destined to be one of the Fallen Wolves and what that meant for the grand scheme of things and then i reread it and realized it made absolutely no sense lmao i wanna die

[Tanner]

What I don’t understand why Tanner is in such a damn hurry to be sentenced here? We have 5 townies to choose from excludng me, so why is Tanner so eager to be eliminated first?

i'm awful town in endgames. i can give links if needed - i have literally never won a town lylo where i was the deciding vote or where i wasn't in a 1v1 with someone. the longer i am alive, the bigger the odds the town loses, it's that simple. especially in a clusterfuck theme game like this where i am very aware that my reads are garbage.

god, reading 3430 is annoying. "i don't think scum!ydrasse rams through an infinity flip because she would know she needs to look good post-reveal... but also tanner is totally scum lol" like have you even seen why infinity wagon ended up being a thing???

I’ve never ever played with scum!Datisi but I’ve never been really suspicious of him in any of my games where he’s been town and at a gut level, I am very suspicious of him here. It’s of course possible I’m wrong but him being so hellbent on being the first one sentenced or not wanting us to lim Ydrasse because she’s tr him, just worry me.

wrong. i am pretty certain you thought i was scum and voted me out in quasi-lylo of krazy's post apoc upick. and i wanna ask what is it that's making you suspicious of me and i have a feeling the only response you'll have is "gut because you were obvtown in [this one town game] and you're not here" and holy fuck i want to headdesk every time i hear that nonsense

[Tanner]

like i'm rereading the above post and i am genuinely annoyed because the main reason why i was considering myself to be obvtown here is because i single handedly turned the wagon onto infinity

and when the infinity flip was gonna get posted, it was the middle of the night for me and i was tired but i stayed up to wait for it and when i saw she was scum i was so happy i couldn't sleep because my mind kept working on the game so when i finally fell asleep the first thing i did when waking up was jot down the wallpost that i posted at the start of day 2

and when clidd was reevaling me or whatever i cited that event as the reason why i am town because again i never ever fucking bus a partner like that

and then hectic said the game is actually backwards which means my towncred for forcing infinity through is just fucking *gone* and

and then amy has the nerve to say "ydrasse is town because she wouldn't have rammed infinity through like that and also i totally think tanner is scum" like the fuck

[Tanner]

and yes before you ask i am aware that pissing off the conftown who doesn't wanna listen to me anyway is stupid but congrats being pushed throughout the whole game on that criminal bullshit is taking its toll

you may all now collectively go "would scum!tanner purposefully piss of the conftown for the wifom" because the answer is probably yes

[Tanner]

flea said fae has a "plan b" for if i flip town or something right? has that been presented yet?

[Tanner]

i think scum!me (knowing the wincons) would at some point leave robert be, be like "ok fine but i still think he's scum), and then we get to Stage Two and i can be like "lol we are never ever fucking yeeting robert here" because i love lhf townies bc arguing with them is a good way to eat up thread space and appear like i'm doing something

ofc self meta etc

i think i've done a similarish-ly effort post a few times in my life as scum but eh

[Tanner]

There is absolutely no reason for a town tanner to be nervous right now.
If tanners town and knows my read is bad, he dismisses it.

this gives me a headache this read is so surface level it's sad

"tanner is scum because he's survivalistic" "tanner is scum because he is nervous" like this is genuinely such level zero thinking, why the fuck are you pretending like you know anything about me or the way i play?

[Tanner]

Tanner i swear to you if you are town I will get your ass out of this god accursed pit come hell or high water

i love you but with (by my count last time i checked) 5 out of 6 non-me non-amy people townreading me, knowing there's at least one scum in there (and my luck would have it two) i know there is scum townreading me which means someone is pocketing me and i have no idea who and it's making me look at every single post @ me with suspicion and agkjdfj i hate this game

at some point i stopped trying to do my tanner-posting-style i am bad at alting

[Tanner]

i'm at the top of page 140 it's 15 past 5am there's light outside and birds are singing i'm going to sleep for a bit

[Tanner]

WHAT THE FUCK

NO

[Tanner]

i know scum!me likes to meme-openwolf sometimes but come on that is too much even for me

most likely town

unless we're living in a fucked up world

:

- ydrasse.

also when i opened my iso earlier when i was looking for my older posts re ydra's reads, i found this gem and lmfao if she's scum

ok i'm off fr

[Tanner]

i just woke up from another nap and will be out wandering the streets soon but will respond to a few things while i'm here:

i love flea's "town!tanner has no reason to be nervous here" because apparently there's only one person pushing me and nobody is listening to fae. first of all, you still know nothing about me or my emotions. but going by your logic... why would that make scum!tanner care? i'm apparently the utr here with eVerYOnE wanting me out. apparently i'm that genius scum mastermind who's managed to fool everyone here. what makes you think i lose my shit over *you*? or waste efforts pretending that i do instead of doing some fake solving before getting spared?

also, conveniently leaving out that amy thinks i'm scum. "everyone other than me thinks he's town" is a lie.

oh and nice attempt to change what I said. I never said survivalistic.

I have suspisions.

do you plan actually talking about this?

Nothing much to say beyond people who are survivalist give me the heebies.

oh my apologies,

survivalist

i know scum!me likes to meme-openwolf sometimes but come on that is too much even for me

most likely town

unless we're living in a fucked up world

:

- ydrasse.

also when i opened my iso earlier when i was looking for my older posts re ydra's reads, i found this gem and lmfao if she's scum

ok i'm off fr

Then there's this "defence" of "oh shit I got caught"

ok so by your logic, i'm scum who *very consciously* made 1402 where i basically reveal the whole setup... and then i go "oh shit" when i get caught? like, do you seriously think scum!me is so audacious to make a post revealing the setup, but then so stupid to not even prepare myself for what to respond if someone sees it? or do you think i forgot about making it? because my memory is much better than that.

i'm slowly starting to believe that flea cannot genuinely be this tunneled and [things i will not say to not get banned] to be betting the whole game on "yin tells us the scumteam lol"

because funnily enough, this is something that i definitely would've done with robert here as scum - scumread him during Phase One, but never actually offer any good reasons that would genuinely get him killed, then once it's in Stage Two, i get to force all my energy in screaming how he's scum. because has fae done literally anything else? despite apparently having a plan for when faer theory turns out to be wrong?

also the "tanner prioritizing his own removal over town wincon" is ???? i am t o w n. not wanting yourself voted out in normal lylo is playing to your wincon. wanting yourself to ascend here is playing to your wincon. like. the fuck.

[Tanner]

re 3598: the point wasn't *when* you called me survivalistic. the point was the fact that you did so at all shows that you have no clue about who i am or how i play. and your solve is wrong. why the fuck would i join that?

it's been a while since i've seen a wall that bad but here we go. i'm not even gonna spoiler this, i got to suffer reading this, others get to too.

fLEA VOTE scum rn

VOTE: Tanner

that's wrong. she said vote

scum

, silly!

in all seriousness, i am interested in the thoughts behind this take.

Looking back at this I'm cracking up.
A joke vote in response to a joke post and the initial waves of worry are crashing out.

"tanner? asked someone about their read on him?? while trying to get out of rvs??? scum"

Yin hasn't posted yet despite being asked questions. What do people think about that?

was there a point to asking this?

slight town ping on robert, mostly because his intro gives me a vibe similar to my own. ircher feels tonally scummy but i'm not too interested in pushing that right now. if anyone who's town on ydrasse could let me know why, that would be cool.

hmm.

Yin

, how many actual criminals are there in the pit?

(the first person to say "wow, are you scum trying to townslip???" is getting slapped. alright thanks.)

The self-awareness is real.

oh gee oh boy self-awareness. the fucking self awareness. never heard that one before, i definitely didn't have an entire case written out on town!me in TM because of my jokey self-awareness. (second part of the post.)

Tanner: your early game kind of pinged, though 192 reminds me of... i want to say Chara's Folly Tanner? but it occurs to me i don't think i read the end of that game and i don't remember if you were scum.

my early game is weak (i cannot find my way around prolonged fluff posting / rvs, though that is nai as both scum! and town!me are awkward as hell there), so that's not surprising. and i was town in chara's folly.

And yet what you've given so far sounds so confident and active, at least on a surface level.

yes. my early game is weak in a sense that i struggle appearing town if the game is full of joking and has no ai material, and my reads suffer as a consequence too. but i will present them with confidence anyway, there is no reason not to.

1. awkward joke trying to get Ydrasse to talk about scum!norwee.
2. challenging Pooky's town read on a player because it's a bit early.
3. prompting and encouraging Satoru to talk about a scum read on Flea.

1. it was not a joke. i thought ydrasse's early vote on norwee was serious (at least as much as an early vote like that can be). when she told me she wouldn't seriously vote norwee for the reason she gave, i just told her i didn't know that.
2. what pooky said - this is a datisi alt. (though i kinda wished to not have it mentioned that fast...)
3. yeah. i was getting scumpings on flea. i wanted to talk about it with another player who said they got the same pings.

Three things meant to erode town reads and promote scum reads, because there's nothing that scum hates more than townies with under-developped scum reads on other townies, and strong town reads on townies.

If Tanner flips scum, then Norwee is town, Datisi is town, and Flea is town.

i mean, 1. is saying i didn't know how ydrasse reads norwee, and 2. is eroding a townread on myself... and even if the 3. were correct, i'm literally just talking about a ping i got. and considering i did out some townpings earlier (and one of them was on *you*, so from your pov you'd surely know it can't be scum!me being an idiot just townreading partners and scumreading all townies), this feels confbiased, if not intentionally malicious.

my early game is weak

Pre-emptive excuse for future scummy play.

...it's the exact opposite? like i'm saying "i struggle in early game when it's mostly rvs, but when the game gets serious, i'll get more townie as i'll actually have something to work with". that's not a pre-emptive excuse for my future scummy play, it's setting expectations for my future townie play.

i don't like these posts from robert. i can understand some early scumreads on myself (i'll be first to tell you i have not gotten into the game yet), but both 251 and 253 feel like throwing shit and seeing what sticks. the "future excuse for scummy play" line legitimately makes no sense. also, the "what" in 256, considering it was followed by no re-evaluation, kinda feels like scum who got caught not knowing what to do now that their point against their "scumread" was proven false, rather than a townie organically reacting to the development.

Then we got this which fucking lol's at it. Even the acknowledgement alone in here is amazing.

? what are you even talking about here?

happi scumday hectic

I like Norwe Robert and Infy

maybe i'm biased, but i'm really curious what makes you like robert here. [edit after reading: goes for amy dune too. like, what about robert's posting has been remotely good.]

Yin

, how many actual criminals are there in the pit?

By my count....... four.

so this would imply yin knows how many of us are criminals here? though can't know he's including himself (or yang) in that, and whether he would lie about it. hm.

the cumulus fact does not seem right, but i don't know enough about meteorology to confidently say it's incorrect.

from my 30-second google search, i'd say that it is incorrect. is there any point to even talking with these two?

i just realized

I don't know who the mafia are.

There's no reason to believe there are mafia in this game, yet. the only distinction Yang has made between good and evil is that goats are baddies and llamas are presumably the opposite

Although, I suppose Yang still told us that Yin is the one who will tell us how to spot the difference. And Yang being able to freely post does support uninformed. Something about the use of "mafia" is irking me though cause i dont think any Silent Star has had mafia in it.

if we're sure that yang is isis (i'm Not Good at alt hunting), then i'm sure yang would at least know the flavour name of the scumteam, considering isis was a reviewer of this game.

also, the "what" in 256, considering it was followed by no re-evaluation, kinda feels like scum who got caught not knowing what to do now that their point against their "scumread" was proven false, rather than a townie organically reacting to the development.

Who did Robert think Datisi was in the first place?

considering he thought i was trashing town!pooky's townread on town!datisi... i guess he thought a different player?

Setting up the Yin discredit already.

"tanner didn't take everything that yin said as gospel? scum"

VOTE: robert

those posts on me were just bad. i can kind of excuse 251 if i squint, considering he didn't know whose alt this is (but also not really because point 1. is still awful), but the stretch of "tanner is excusing his future play!!" and the fact he's shown zero nuance in thinking about his read on me after learning that some of his points were moot... yeah no.

flea is currently next on my list. i got excited seeing 319, thinking it's actually gonna be a game related catch-up, and instead it was just... mech filler. faer only real read so far has been "tanner gut"... not vibing.

other people that i dislike so far are ydrasse and amy dunne - for kind of similar reasons i guess? ydrasse has still not really Done anything, and Amy's posts seem to be forced posting for the sake of posting.

(i can already hear robert typing how i'm blocking townread on a lot of people - yes, i am. these people aren't being townie. they deserve to get called out.)

norwee and tweetie seem like they're not internally screaming when they're posting, so i'll call those a townlean. pooky is not giving me evil vibes for once, and i don't know what that means, but i'm running with it for now. also ircher seems like he gives absolutely zero shits so, in the absence of proper townreads, i'm calling that a townlean for now too. i think everyone else is too close to the null line to go one way or the other for me.

This is beautiful. Daitsi knows how deep my catchups can go, and knows my catchup style is either intermittent post, or wall'o'fluff. Also note the "mech filler" comment.
I'm pretty sure Daitsi also knows how I can utilise mech, hell I turned a loyal 1-shot neighbouriser into a 1-shot cop AND left enough crumbs to build the witches house previously. (Still proud of that, Pooky you should remember that too seeing as it was your slot I damned. )
The other thing I like about this post, is the misyeet setups happening here.
I'm town, so is Ydrasse and Amy. "For similar reasons". I'm mech fluffing, Ydrasse "has not really done anything" and Amys posts are posted for the sake of posting.
There is not any scum mentioned in this post. Either confirmed or mech'd. Bearing in mind Nakata and Infinity were both lurking it out and I don't recall Chara being the most active either.

ok first of all, the fact that you don't even know how to spell my name shows how much you actually know about me. but anyway - i don't know you. within the mafia side of things, i have had *one* interaction with you, modding a game when you were on an alt. a game that you were town in which was a scum sweep, so forgive me if my impression of your play from that one encounter isn't the best. i've forgotten most of the details from that game (fuck was it boring) so i have no clue what your attempts at mech were there, and i haven't read any of your games otherwise. so no, i have no clue how you utilize mech nor do i care, judging by this game your mechplay is godawful. (if you're town.)

THE MISYEETS SETUPS. in a game that turned out to have the opposite alignment wincons. i'm getting shit on for scumreading town and not trying to get scum yeeted. how much of a brainfart did you have at this part?

ircher seems like he gives absolutely zero shits so, in the absence of proper townreads, i'm calling that a townlean for now too.

Inactivity makes you townlean them? Why?

it's not inactivity, it's the random pop-ins, giving his thoughts, then fucking off and not sweating about the pressure on him. i will admit that i don't actually know whether that's +town for ircher, but as said - in the absence of people acting townie, i'm fine going for a weaker reason to townlean someone.

pedit: i didn't mean just from today. random pop-ins to give his thoughts (213, 258) while not caring about the wagon/pressure on him strikes me as somewhat more likely to come from town.

"people aren't acting townie so amma pull reads outta my butt."

OK not as bad as I'm making out, but ya know, subtle signs are as important as the big ones.

yes. i said it before (let me know if you care about me digging through, i'd guess you don't) i'll say it again, i need anchors in this game. i need *some* reads to orient myself around. if the whole game is acting weird? yeah my standards are gonna lower.

why is not getting killed so important?

because i'm town, and i don't want the town to waste a yeet on me.

Gone from "You absolutely should not yeet me." to "Just fucking yeet me and get me out of the game".

So far this stinks of a desperate and deepwolf setup.

??? what? if this is saying that i wanted to get yeeted earlier - no i didn't? that post is obviously saying that i don't? nowhere in Stage One did i say to yeet me??

if this is saying that i wanna get yeeted in Stage Two... yes???

why is not getting killed so important?

because i'm town, and i don't want the town to waste a yeet on me.

I thought you meant not getting NK'ed.
But you was saying you didn't want to get limmed?

yeah, my "i need help not getting killed" in 341 was referencing the fact i had a grand total of *gasp* 3 votes on me at one time, and that i don't wish to eat the yeet. i will neither confirm nor deny whether i want to die by nightkill.

in fairness, context was based around eliminations. but like he said, a grand total of *gasp* 3 votes on him. He wasn't even half way to yeet, so why the survivalist attitude? Because the deepwolf setup is failing a little, maybe?

tanner made a joke about not wanting to get killed because he had a moderate amount of votes on him??? scum????

yin

, are you a criminal?

i'm not sure if there's a point asking this, considering we don't know if he's telling the truth either way, but that then goes for all questions, sooo.

Hey look another mech discredit attempt.

didn't.. take yin.... as gospel?? scu m ?

why is not getting killed so important?

because i'm town, and i don't want the town to waste a yeet on me.

hmmm....

is there a meaning behind this "hmmm"?

Amy is officially a townlean now.

was this caused by 389/390? if so, what gave you a townlean?

for the record, amy is giving me a townie vibe as well, but i can't put my finger on it.

i kiiinda wanna townlean ydrasse for 407? i have no idea what happened in ms rpg, but i've been getting the feeling that infinity sounds "...?" too. though i'm not exactly the best at reading infinity myself so /shrug. by the time i finished reading, the "...?" feeling on infinity has disappeared and has been replaced with "yeah ok i have no clue how to read her i will just ignore her for now and hope someone else does", but i'll keep that townlean on ydra.

i am

not

getting any townie pings on clidd this game, which i think is somewhat concerning, considering that every game with him so far (that i was town and thus had to read him), he'd give me those townie pings and he was town?

ok friends are calling me, i got to go so i will finish the rest of this a bit quicker - liking tweetie's posts bc energy but also not really worrying about her as she's one of my "will probably stop being so townie later if scum" reads, and i'm also liking chara for ??? reasons idk i'm probably playing with fire here, i've heard spicy things about its scumgame ok cool bye

The defensive strikes again. Almost like my rep proceeds me. Tanners already rattled I got the sus on him.

literally all i did was ask how you're reading me

god forbid i ask someone why they scumread me to try to read them

and again - the only reputation of you i know is you playing town in a game that ended up being a scum roflstomp. so get off your high horse please.

i am not getting any townie pings on clidd this game, which i think is somewhat concerning, considering that every game with him so far (that i was town and thus had to read him), he'd give me those townie pings and he was town?

actually before i go, i just remembered that is a lie, he did fool me once. but also i'm still not getting any townie pings from him this game so take it as you will.

Literally just sus of everyone lol.

"tanner's townread on ircher is bad therefore he's scum"
"but also tanner's scumreading everyone therefore he's scum"
do you hear yourself?

It would be interesting for us to discuss your read on Robert when you have time. Something tells me he's someone like ''town acting erratic/sporadic'' but not ''scum planning a push''.

it's 2am and i have a headache (an actual one, not related to this game) so i'll likely sleep soon, but i'm not sure i've got anything to say here that i've not already said. his points on me just felt really reachy. and while i know that is not necessarily scum!indicative of itself, the fact that he froze and stopped posting once he found out one of his points is moot, as opposed to started re-evaluating his push... i don't like it. it's not a slam dunk case in any way (and i'm not pretending it is), but it's the best i got so far.

i noticed you started off saying he's scumpinging you, then later on you said you don't vibe with his wagon - have you explained what changed your mind here?

Scumreading someone but not vibing with the wagon are two very different things. You can solidly scumread someone and not vibe with the wagon. How else do you find associatives?

okay? even if so, why do you have such a problem with me asking clidd for an update on his reads?

@Tanner

Initially he pinged me as scummy, but after I started theorizing about his course of action in a scum!Robert scenario, it didn't make much sense that he specifically selected you to push, mostly because of the cost-benefit.

He attracted a lot of attention to himself and ignored your town ping on him to go into a 1v1. If you were the one who went to him first, it would make more sense for scum!him to respond appropriately with a scumread, but he was the one who went after you and started the conflict, which is why I don't see a plausible *scum motivation* in his actions (and made me reconsider the initial impression on him).

i don't really see the issue with cost-benefit - at the time of his push, i was a relatively popular scumread, having a few votes on me and not having gotten into the game yet. so not like my "vague townping on robert" was worth much of anything or like he had much to lose there. besides, he's not familiar with my game, i wouldn't say it's unlikely that scum!him thought i was a relatively easy townie to push, not being aware that a shitpush on my slot is exactly what i needed to wake up.

Freeze after lighting a spark between the two of you would also be terrible for his credibility. Would scum!Robert just not care about that?

i don't think it's an issue of not caring, i think it's an issue of not *knowing* how to respond to the new information because he was hoping his push on me would be enough to show that he's solving, at least for the time being. like, look at his recent posts, does this look like a townie who's genuinely evaluating the game:

Why did Robert think Datisi was in the game and which player?
This seems like something we should really know.

I don't know any Datisi, Pooky brought something up about a Datisi and I I get this, Datisi and Tanner are the same player?

well first of all, this is a lie, you played in a game i modded, but giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you've genuinely forgotten about me - the second part still feels off. it has been confirmed multiple times, by me as well, that this is an alt of datisi. again, one of the major points about why i'm scum (shutting down townreads of other people) has been showed to be moot (as i was shutting down a townread of myself), and there's no explanation or response from him, just more playing dumb. he's obviously not bothering to even *read* my response to him.

I see people what to eliminate me on day 1 again. I take that to mean I'm right about Tanner being scum.

this also makes no sense. like, unless this is trying to say that i'm scum, and i panicked, and i told all my scumbuddies to immediately dogpile on robert... what is this even supposed to mean?

I didn't like this when i saw it, honestly.
Strawmanning. "Everyone wants me limmed so I'm on to something here" does not equate the implication that you, a known mafia veteran, would panick and ask your buddies to dogpile. Given your buddies are Nakata, Infy and Chara, they all know better anyway. This is a BAD reaction.

what? "everyone wants me limmed so i'm correct" pretty much implies that scum wants him limmed because he's correct (because surely it doesn't imply that town, who has no idea who is who, would magically want him limmed for having a correct read). even if he didn't think that it was me specifically who told my team to pile on, it still shows the thinking of "scum is piling on me".

Seriously? Clidd is probably my strongest tr so far.

good for you, was there a point in posting this? (also, please don't quote full wallposts if you're gonna respond to one line. highlight the relevant part, then quote.)

I think Robert’s probably town. Town!TSE made a very similar kind of slip in a game he was in.

for one, robert is (probably) not tse, but do you maybe want to link this?

The mechanics And purpose behind the Yin and Yang players aren’t clear enough for me to just blindly assume something like there has to be scum in me/Chara/Pooky just because of something Yin said.

+1. yin said he's a thief. until we have more info as to what the hell his role is here, i don't think we should be listening to what he's saying.

besides, i highly *highly* doubt hectic + isis would make a game where townies can just ask an npc for who the scum is, and that they would give an honest answer.

also saying this right now, if robert ever flips scum this game, nakata is locktown and i'm deathtunnelling ydrasse until one of us is dead.

More Yin discrediting. There's not even a thought Yin could be accurate here. Note also the defence of a buddy and threat towards a townie.
Oh, and eat my wall post. Context is key and I'm leaving nothing out. Bold is mine btw.
Scum know the setup. Just like last time, we had a major effect against us.
I'll say it again.

Occams Razor is an amazing concept for a game.

and I fully expect Hectic and Isis to troll the collective orbs off the player base by placing such a mechanic in a

Silent Star game which are known for screwy as all hell mechanics!

DEFENSE OF A BUDDY AND AN ATTACK ON A TOWNIE IN A FUCKING REVERSE WINCON GAME ARE YOU SERIOUS

and even then, that was only valid for if robert flipped red - he didn't. and even then, the fact that that only takes place after robert flip, would mean that scum!me would first have to get robert flipped, have him flip green (bad for scum!me's wincon) *then* somehow use that to get even more townies flipped even though that is even worse for scum's wincon like what

i think Yin said he's a thief because the character he's being is a phantom thief.

right. i still don't think it overrides my other points, that we genuinely have no clue what his role is and whether he'd be truthful to us.

yin

, is yang a criminal?

pedit: i vaguely remember seeing town!robert act a bit more freely in the game i modded, but (1) been a while ago and (2) not like i was putting in effort into reading him there. i'll try to skim his completed games at some point to see if anything interesting pops up. maybe. idk i hate meta research.

Discrediting Yin but still interacting? Interesting.

not taking yin as gospel but still thinking that there might be value in interacting with him? what is nuance, amirite?

does playing on a different account help with that?

so far, yeah. but i've never made it to endgame with this account, which is usually where my nerves really go off the rails, so remains to be seen.

ay yo ircher, wanna place an actual vote on someone?

First time for everything, right?

pointless filler

I have suspisions.

do you plan actually talking about this?
I am pretty messed up on heat and medication at this point. and seeing as it's come up elsewhere, I'm on non-opioids because oh boy do I react to those, I take a mixture of Naproxen(Aleve) and Pregabalin(Lyrica) day to day, with Nefopam(Acupan) on the bad days which leaves me super messed up. (Why Americans call everything by brand name will always confuse me.)

ircher wagon feels like a wagon on a townie who's being weird. and distracting from a buddy who's caught with their pants down but people are giving them a pass because "???" "what if they're lhf".

Nothing much to say beyond people who are survivalist give me the heebies.

the most survivalistic bastard you'll see in a game, nice to meet you.

pedit: didn't see anything that shows they can't both be scum. that's just what my gut is telling me right now.

The thing I hate is people always want a case of STRONG points, never lots of weak ones. Even when the weak ones massively outweigh any solid town reasoning. Survivalism is the biggest one. Most town I know don't care about being elim'd as long as their information gained is decent.

good for them, i'm not like most town.

i'm not going "two competing wagons must be t/s" > "robert is the scum, ircher is the town".
i'm going "i'm scumreading robert and i'm vaguely townie on ircher" > "their wagons are competing, i think they're t/s"

Speaking of weak, order of operations is something I'm using as part of my toolset rn, and seeing how it helps me. That second line to me reads as Robert Town, Ircher scum.
This is just a general note for me to call back to at some point for my own universial shenangians.

?

573 does make it sound like it has to do with Robert scum. which, sure, i could see it.
where do you get town for Ircher? he's been pretty null for me. maybe a little townier for the response to you asking him to vote and Ircher sitting on his Yin vote instead.

err, yeah, my current guess is that scum would want to subscribe to the easy ircher wagon. but i'm not saying it's impossible robert and ircher are both scum (or both town).

i talked about it in 328 and 336. like, he started receiving pressure, and instead of doing traditionally townie things he kept doing his own thing? i thought that was somewhat townie.

Not everyone responds to pressure. Generally unless you know a players meta it's NAI. As scum I flail like a beast under pressure, as town I'm next to usless under pressure too. it's just how I am, I'm more reflexive than active.

ok, what does this have to do with anything? do you wanna show how using that read makes me scum or...

i'd have hoped seeing so many pedits of ydrasse screaming how ircher is a bad vote would've made me think she's town, but they did not. sad.

"Aww Ydrasse didn't give me a reason to townread her."

yes?

i mean, i agree that Ircher has some votes, but it feels early to say he's an easier wagon when iirc Robert had the same amount or more (at least 3, by my count), and i believe i make three on Ircher.

my point is that scum want an easy wagon on a townie. and i don't think robert is a townie. therefore robert *cannot* be an easy wagon at all.

also considering how much discussion on robert there is, and many people are going "hurr durr lhf" (while ircher is picking votes up effortlessly), robert doesn't feel like an easy wagon at all.

Thing is optimal scumplay is never to take the easy wagon D1. But to derail it.

okay? this is relevant to my alignment how?

have you read what i've written about robert and why i'm voting him? i saw you earlier asking that there was a robert thing, and like. what do you think of my case?

I'm in ISO right now and WHAT CASE!? THERE IS NO CASE HERE.

i don't fucking write cases i wrote one proper scumcase in my life and it was a disaster. but i'd talked about robert plenty of times up until that point and pretending that i didn't make my reasons clear is straight misrep

actually i don't care enough about it, hopefully he's gonna come back and make his alignment really obvious, one way or another.

why you voting chara, pooky?

Literally the entire case is a meta read. Amazing. And one you're not even that bothered about.

it's not. i'd never played with robert before.

Case on robert is hes been caught in a lie about knowing mains/alts

it's not. my main points against him are the garbage push he made on me, then freezing / not knowing how to react once the information about alts came to light (second part of 545).

This is 100% absolute horse crap. Your case was entirely meta based and backed up with ketchup/catsup pretending to be hot sauce. I wanted to feel a burn, all I felt was sweet tanginess.

it. was. not. meta. i didn't know jack shit about robert's meta. are we reading the same game?

pedit: i vaguely remember seeing town!robert act a bit more freely in the game i modded, but (1) been a while ago and (2) not like i was putting in effort into reading him there. i'll try to skim his completed games at some point to see if anything interesting pops up. maybe. idk i hate meta research.

That would be really helpful.

debatable. second-hand meta usually just makes me tunnel what i already think. and you'd think that would stop me from saying "i should do meta research" but it does not.

do you plan on linking that "slip" from tse?

Tanner i’m very interested in your response now.

here's a take - i see absolutely nothing town-indicative in what robert has posted in his return.

upon getting back, he started getting pissy, doing the most surface-level omgus. he repeated not once, not twice, but three times that he's mad he's being wagoned for "not knowing alt accounts". i explicitly said that i don't give a shit he didn't know who i am - my problem is that his original attack on me and his reaction upon learning about the alt both reek of scum. his original points on me were garbage, and he has showed no re-evaluation of my slot upon learning the new info. even now! he chose to completely ignore me and what i'm saying (and why i'm voting him) and instead just go omgus someone else. you'd think town!him would, i don't know, at least *address* his read on me (you know, the thing that got him into this mess in the first place) by this point?

why the hell are people reading him as town? because he got mad? like, ircher called him out, he wasn't doing jack shit other than being mad and insisting he's being wagoned for not knowing alts. that's not town-indicative behaviour. and the "it's obvious i won't make it to night so people defending me are suspicious" like, you had 3 votes as an early day wagon, who the hell are you kidding by pretending to think your yeet is already set in stone?

Kinda like you're getting a lil shirty with my single handed push on you? That I've been sus on you the entire game? That you know by my rep I tunnel and its rare I stop? how about your points? Your persistent meta, using that he got caught out by not remembering every player and alts in a game he played in? Showed no-revaluation because why would he? Who you are had nothing to do with this push on you that I recall, I may be wrong.
Theres something amazing here though.

you had 3 votes as an early day wagon, who the hell are you kidding by pretending to think your yeet is already set in stone?

Coming from the wonder defender. Beautiful.

i don't know shit about your rep and i don't care. my points on robert weren't meta and framing them like they were as you're allegedly reading my iso is disingenuous af.

Nakata thinks that friend Tanner is likely town.

could Nakata elaborate on this?

Do I smell a connection? A forced interaction?
It smells either way.

god
forbid
i ask someone
how they read me

VOTE: infinity

Literally 3 posts before this with Infinity interactions/mentions.
"BE YEET FRIEND! I WILLST SEE THOU AGAINST SOON!"

sigh

for the record - i still would prefer to yeet robert. but i see everyone is going by the "he came back and *gasp* made posts and showed emotion, obviously town!!" logic, so.

i'm back to thinking amy is on the scummier side of things. i don't know why, but some of her recent posting feels like she's not happy to be here. (before you ask why i voted infinity - because i'm not townreading her either and there was already a vote on her.)

however, while i was starting to feel better feelings about nakata, 866 feels slightly off to me, specifically the last line. like, i get the idea behind "forcing townbloccs is +scum behaviour", but, that's a *big* part for why you're voting your preferred scumread? i dunno.

tl;dr, reads probably being trash.

Pretty sure this vote is weaker than an RVS vote, and the disclaimer is here again.

I think Tanner is nervous scum Once again we have the self-aware "oh woe is unto me, my reads! They are trash! so low as to even be unworthy of pigs muck!"
-Dramatisation by me. Im that way out currently :3

letting people know when you're aware that your reads aren't what they should be? what is honesty?

i will be doing absolutely zero second-hand meta research, thanks.

how is it supposed to be "obvious" you're town here? you're not being townie.

No but you expect us to. And pretty obvious to you I'd imagine.

no i don't. if i have a second-hand meta point on someone i will present it myself.

that amy/nakata back and forth was so unpleasant to read, what the fuck.

Tanner, what makes you think I’m unhappy to be here? I’m really excited about this game, so I really don’t understand where you’re getting that from?

your recent posts before my 868 felt kind of bland and boring. and 844 felt scummy. i'm not too certain about your being scum right now though, recent posting felt better. i'll probably shelf it back to think about it later, as i doubt you're getting run up anyway.

clidd is probably town. also 967 (now that i'm actually reading it and not sleepily skipping over it) does feel like town ydrasse. i don't think i agree with the idea that scum!infinity > scum!nakata, but i wouldn't be *terribly* surprised i was wrong there. to me it feels obvious why nakata isn't extending the same mentality from robert to infinity, and i guess i don't really find it scummy, but this is probably better left for him to answer.

Posts are bland and boring (been reading his own apparently), there's a scummy post but behold! He is upon the fence! Amy is an established SR of Tanners at this point from the gist of the posts, so this jarrs me a little bit. "i'll shelf it for now because you're not getting run up anyway" - I hate this, I hate this so much. Why not case a scumread and get it going? At least establish it? And before you say anything, I've been on you all dang game.

because why would i? i'm a practical person. it takes time and effort to try to iron out a read, a read that i know that (1) won't do anything because i will not manage to convince people to vote amy anyway (2) would not be as good as it could be if i wait a little and get more info. some people take time to be sorted it's not a bad thing to admit that. not everyone needs to be sorted right away, it's ok to take time and strategize about how to get your own reads. again, shows you know nothing about my play.

To be completely honest, you actually haven’t been very nice to me so far. I have no idea why?
I don’t see why 844 was scummy. That’s typical how I solve. I’m just trying to figure out who to vote for. If this game was based on who I absolutely would not vote for, this game would be hella easier.

apologies if i've been rude anywhere, but i don't think suspecting you to be scum or asking you why you're posting something is not being nice? we're playing mafia.

844 felt like trying to paint non-scummy things as coming from scum. like, the "if he's so certain on robert!scum, why pivot to tweetie" part felt kind of intentionally trying to make his actions more malicious then they really are.

How do you solve? Normally I can work out how someone plays and see their style. You're not scumhunting, you're not town hunting. You're not hunting at all that I can see, not even reflexivly.

i've been townhunting and scumhunting, but you're been ignoring those posts because "this read is pulled out of his ass" or "he doesn't wanna iron out on this read" or "he hasn't made a proper case on that read" or "this is obvious setting up buddies/townies" so like

you quoted my wall where i said i thought clidd was scummy to say "really? he's one of my strongest townreads" without explaining why you think so, asking for my reasons, or trying to change my mind. that's a scummy post that adds nothing to the table while attempting to make it look like you're contributing something. so i asked what was the point of posting it.

your constant "oh i'm so frustrated, i don't have a strong scumread, i don't know where to vote, woe is me" are really starting to sound fake.

saying "i don't know who to vote and i don't wanna misyeet" is one of the easiest things to fake as scum. it also adds literally nothing to the conversation. the longer you keep that act up, the more fake it gets, and i'm gonna call you out on it.

I'm cracking up again, your efforts so far have been so half assed that you can call someone out is amazing.

yeah i can. i had stances. you didn't like them but they were there.

[Tanner]

i spent over an hour on that and i regret every second of it but i know i would to it all again because i am not getting shouted out by posts that bad

[Tanner]

pooky i think that post fully convinced me on yeeting the fuck out of tweetie so if we get around to doing that today you have my vote

[Tanner]

Context is incredibly fucking important. What do you lose from me, you, chara and someone else being in YOLO with Amy?

(1) lylo is a fucking nightmare and i prefer to avoid that shit like the plague. (2) if both scum are outside of that, we lose. (because frankly i don't have too much faith in you breaking out of your yin tunnel even if we flip a scum outside the criminals because you're already finding every single thing i did in this game scummy and i bet you could do the same for chara.) (3) if there's 1 scum in that, i have to scream at someone while the deciding vote will be a townie who scumreads me. no thanks.

[Tanner]

good for them, i'm not like most town.

i thought of better / more recent examples of town!me caring very much about the possibility being yeeted if you care.

Spoiler:

i'm always concerned about being scumread. my no1 mission in any game, regardless of my role (save rolling a confirmable town PR, and sometimes even then) is to project town as much as possible. i do not like getting executed.

and because i *will* shriek my lungs out when you start dragging me to the yeetotine (i can't believe i just typed that with my own two hands) and it will not be pleasant

[Tanner]

What I don’t understand why Tanner is in such a damn hurry to be sentenced here? We have 5 townies to choose from excludng me, so why is Tanner so eager to be eliminated first?

i'm awful town in endgames. i can give links if needed - i have literally never won a town lylo where i was the deciding vote or where i wasn't in a 1v1 with someone. the longer i am alive, the bigger the odds the town loses, it's that simple. especially in a clusterfuck theme game like this where i am very aware that my reads are garbage.

god, reading 3430 is annoying. "i don't think scum!ydrasse rams through an infinity flip because she would know she needs to look good post-reveal... but also tanner is totally scum lol" like have you even seen why infinity wagon ended up being a thing???

I’ve never ever played with scum!Datisi but I’ve never been really suspicious of him in any of my games where he’s been town and at a gut level, I am very suspicious of him here. It’s of course possible I’m wrong but him being so hellbent on being the first one sentenced or not wanting us to lim Ydrasse because she’s tr him, just worry me.

wrong. i am pretty certain you thought i was scum and voted me out in quasi-lylo of krazy's post apoc upick. and i wanna ask what is it that's making you suspicious of me and i have a feeling the only response you'll have is "gut because you were obvtown in [this one town game] and you're not here" and holy fuck i want to headdesk every time i hear that nonsense

These kind of posts are just irritating me, so I really wish you’d stop it, please?

sure, i can control my tone around you if that's what you're asking. it doesn't change what i'm calling you out on - townreading ydrasse for apparently ramming through the infinity's wagon while at the same time calling me scum, despite me being the one who did that, is incorrect. and saying that you've never misread town!me is incorrect.

[Tanner]

sigh. i don't "despise" second hand meta, i don't have moral qualms with it. i don't like doing second hand meta *for myself* because i am a fucking idiot when it comes to second hand meta. i don't mean this lightly - every time i had a read on a person, and then i decided to look through a game i hadn't played in to see if that read holds up, every single time i would just end up reading what i wanted to read and i would end up tunneling the take i already had. it doesn't help me.

that doesn't mean it doesn't help someone else. if it does, more power to them. and i think saying "hey, i won't do second hand meta myself because reading an entire game i didn't play in doesn't help me solve" is very, *very* different than saying "hey, you suspect me for being survivalistic / having self-awareness / asking about the scumreads on me, here is an easily verifiable source of information that shows that you suspect me for things that are nai-to-towntell for me".

[Tanner]

3) Deciding vote goes to Amy, ultimately.

yes. and i have no desire to be in lylo with a confirmed townie who scumreads me and possibly loses the game on that wrong read and it ends up being my fault. i don't think that's a difficult concept to grasp.

[Tanner]

The only thing that makes sense from fae’s case is that apparently Tanner is shit at reading me, because I don’t believe the case is credible.

do you have a problem with my ex-scumread on you, or is this an omgus-y read? because uh, no offense, but i get the idea that you kinda do those more often than you should. (which also. i don't bullshit a scumread on a townie that (1) i know has that reactionary omgus tendency that i (2) then make confirmed town but self-meta weeee)

I’m going to unvote because it’s a slam dunk, Pooky and Tweetie are getting sentenced. We have 3 days to figure out the other two.

is there a reason to try to figure out all 4 today? don't get me wrong, i enjoy having tweetie around, so besides having her help.

For an easy clap Tanner + me chain would be gameover ig after Pooky and MT.

didn't think i'd ever hear clidd say the words "easy clap", but here we are.

also i acknowledge that it is my turn in the Wallpost War i will get to it in a second

flea, are you willing to reveal what your backup plan is for when the mechanics turn out to be incorrect?

[Tanner]

and before anyone says: yes i am assuming scum picked amy to be the ic considering she didn't tell us anything about being a Stage Two mason.

[Tanner]

holy hell flea you massacred that poor code, it took me up until now to fix it

amy, did yang do anything useful in the mason pt?

[Tanner]

hm. so if the mason pt practically isn't being used for anything right now, why does it exist? either to try to show the difference between yin/yang (or highlight that yang is the good one), or someone else will join it later on too. but "losing" another townie to the masonry seems a bit overkill.

[Tanner]

hm. so if the mason pt practically isn't being used for anything right now, why does it exist? either to try to show the difference between yin/yang (or highlight that yang is the good one), or someone else will join it later on too. but "losing" another townie to the masonry seems a bit overkill.

Nightkill mechanic potentially.

when we're already down to the margin of error of 1? seems a bit brutal. hopefully that's not the case.

[Tanner]

lol i use it too clidd, i just found it funny coming from someone like you who gives off such a serious and formal vibe.

and uh yeah, another nightkill would be ridiculous. i'm just brainstorming the reasons that mason pt has for existing, because it doesn't seem like it's very useful right now. and my guess is that things don't just exist for the sake of it.

[Tanner]

i'm like two thirds of the way there god i hate bbcode

gonna go eat, bbl

and thank fuck tweetie is town i can now eat lunch in peace

[Tanner]

i think we just gave up on asking yin questions because uh, what is there left to ask after he mercilessly detonated ircher?

[Tanner]

oooh pj stands for pj harvey dent

at first i thought you were saying yin is played by panzer lmfao

[Tanner]

yin feels like roleplaying hectic to me, like it would make sense if yang is isis considering the two of them made the setup? and the call for backup mod was made after the setup was finished, *and* it asked only for vc's? unless i'm mixing something up, idk i don't feel like going back to check that

[Tanner]

Guess I'm kinder than you.

probably.

Spoiler: but mama, i'm in love with a criminal

fLEA VOTE scum rn

VOTE: Tanner

that's wrong. she said vote

scum

, silly!

in all seriousness, i am interested in the thoughts behind this take.

Looking back at this I'm cracking up.
A joke vote in response to a joke post and the initial waves of worry are crashing out.

"tanner? asked someone about their read on him?? while trying to get out of rvs??? scum"

Something spikey...
something asking about an agenda...
asking about how serious a vote is.

All entirely different from what just happened here.
You didn't ask, did you?
You mused, pondered and expressed. But didn't ask. In all the examples, you ask.
Oh sorry, the first one you were insistant. My bad.
NEEEXT.

we gotta be playing semantics now?

Yin hasn't posted yet despite being asked questions. What do people think about that?

was there a point to asking this?

slight town ping on robert, mostly because his intro gives me a vibe similar to my own. ircher feels tonally scummy but i'm not too interested in pushing that right now. if anyone who's town on ydrasse could let me know why, that would be cool.

hmm.

Yin

, how many actual criminals are there in the pit?

(the first person to say "wow, are you scum trying to townslip???" is getting slapped. alright thanks.)

The self-awareness is real.

oh gee oh boy self-awareness. the fucking self awareness. never heard that one before, i definitely didn't have an entire case written out on town!me in TM because of my jokey self-awareness. (second part of the post.)

Oh look more meta defence.
Self-awareness is something I have, and I'm familiar with.
The difference is in how its utilised and managed.
You outright cover your tracks here.
I'm aware I look scummy af in this game.
Difference is, I don't care.

that's not relevant? we're not the same person? you don't care how you come off as, good for you. that's not my point. my point is that the "self-awareness" isn't scummy for me. you turning around to scream "well i am town, and i don't care how i come off, therefore you're scum because you do" doesn't... prove anything?

Tanner: your early game kind of pinged, though 192 reminds me of... i want to say Chara's Folly Tanner? but it occurs to me i don't think i read the end of that game and i don't remember if you were scum.

my early game is weak (i cannot find my way around prolonged fluff posting / rvs, though that is nai as both scum! and town!me are awkward as hell there), so that's not surprising. and i was town in chara's folly.

And yet what you've given so far sounds so confident and active, at least on a surface level.

yes. my early game is weak in a sense that i struggle appearing town if the game is full of joking and has no ai material, and my reads suffer as a consequence too. but i will present them with confidence anyway, there is no reason not to.

Then make AI material. You've given me links above showing you trying to break RVS, so you clearly know what you're doing there.

i did make ai material. i'd argue that fight with robert was very decent ai material >_>

1. awkward joke trying to get Ydrasse to talk about scum!norwee.
2. challenging Pooky's town read on a player because it's a bit early.
3. prompting and encouraging Satoru to talk about a scum read on Flea.

1. it was not a joke. i thought ydrasse's early vote on norwee was serious (at least as much as an early vote like that can be). when she told me she wouldn't seriously vote norwee for the reason she gave, i just told her i didn't know that.
2. what pooky said - this is a datisi alt. (though i kinda wished to not have it mentioned that fast...)
3. yeah. i was getting scumpings on flea. i wanted to talk about it with another player who said they got the same pings.

Three things meant to erode town reads and promote scum reads, because there's nothing that scum hates more than townies with under-developped scum reads on other townies, and strong town reads on townies.

If Tanner flips scum, then Norwee is town, Datisi is town, and Flea is town.

i mean, 1. is saying i didn't know how ydrasse reads norwee, and 2. is eroding a townread on myself... and even if the 3. were correct, i'm literally just talking about a ping i got. and considering i did out some townpings earlier (and one of them was on *you*, so from your pov you'd surely know it can't be scum!me being an idiot just townreading partners and scumreading all townies), this feels confbiased, if not intentionally malicious.

my early game is weak

Pre-emptive excuse for future scummy play.

...it's the exact opposite? like i'm saying "i struggle in early game when it's mostly rvs, but when the game gets serious, i'll get more townie as i'll actually have something to work with". that's not a pre-emptive excuse for my future scummy play, it's setting expectations for my future townie play.

i don't like these posts from robert. i can understand some early scumreads on myself (i'll be first to tell you i have not gotten into the game yet), but both 251 and 253 feel like throwing shit and seeing what sticks. the "future excuse for scummy play" line legitimately makes no sense. also, the "what" in 256, considering it was followed by no re-evaluation, kinda feels like scum who got caught not knowing what to do now that their point against their "scumread" was proven false, rather than a townie organically reacting to the development.

Then we got this which fucking lol's at it. Even the acknowledgement alone in here is amazing.

? what are you even talking about here?

This is early game content. Quite strong early game content.
But you're not good early game.
This is probably more a semantics misfire between two people, to be fair.

"not good early game" = "i'll struggle while the game is in full-blown shitpost mode". once robert attacked me... it was not early game anymore. though i'll agree this is semantics.

happi scumday hectic

I like Norwe Robert and Infy

maybe i'm biased, but i'm really curious what makes you like robert here. [edit after reading: goes for amy dune too. like, what about robert's posting has been remotely good.]

Yin

, how many actual criminals are there in the pit?

By my count....... four.

so this would imply yin knows how many of us are criminals here? though can't know he's including himself (or yang) in that, and whether he would lie about it. hm.

the cumulus fact does not seem right, but i don't know enough about meteorology to confidently say it's incorrect.

from my 30-second google search, i'd say that it is incorrect. is there any point to even talking with these two?

i just realized

I don't know who the mafia are.

There's no reason to believe there are mafia in this game, yet. the only distinction Yang has made between good and evil is that goats are baddies and llamas are presumably the opposite

Although, I suppose Yang still told us that Yin is the one who will tell us how to spot the difference. And Yang being able to freely post does support uninformed. Something about the use of "mafia" is irking me though cause i dont think any Silent Star has had mafia in it.

if we're sure that yang is isis (i'm Not Good at alt hunting), then i'm sure yang would at least know the flavour name of the scumteam, considering isis was a reviewer of this game.

also, the "what" in 256, considering it was followed by no re-evaluation, kinda feels like scum who got caught not knowing what to do now that their point against their "scumread" was proven false, rather than a townie organically reacting to the development.

Who did Robert think Datisi was in the first place?

considering he thought i was trashing town!pooky's townread on town!datisi... i guess he thought a different player?

Setting up the Yin discredit already.

"tanner didn't take everything that yin said as gospel? scum"

Tanner didn't even entertain an obvious mechanic THAT IS IN THE GAMES TITLE and was attempting to discredit said mechanic before it even got in full flow. That's the scummy bit.

i did entertain it. that's why i was interacting with yin and asking him about how many criminals are there and who they are and etc. i just took it as "information that might become useful later in the game, once we figure out who yin is and what he wants", rather than "this is something to be followed because hectic and isis would design a mafia game based on the 20 questions game".

Spoiler: and this type of love isn't rational, it's physical

VOTE: robert

those posts on me were just bad. i can kind of excuse 251 if i squint, considering he didn't know whose alt this is (but also not really because point 1. is still awful), but the stretch of "tanner is excusing his future play!!" and the fact he's shown zero nuance in thinking about his read on me after learning that some of his points were moot... yeah no.

flea is currently next on my list. i got excited seeing 319, thinking it's actually gonna be a game related catch-up, and instead it was just... mech filler. faer only real read so far has been "tanner gut"... not vibing.

other people that i dislike so far are ydrasse and amy dunne - for kind of similar reasons i guess? ydrasse has still not really Done anything, and Amy's posts seem to be forced posting for the sake of posting.

(i can already hear robert typing how i'm blocking townread on a lot of people - yes, i am. these people aren't being townie. they deserve to get called out.)

norwee and tweetie seem like they're not internally screaming when they're posting, so i'll call those a townlean. pooky is not giving me evil vibes for once, and i don't know what that means, but i'm running with it for now. also ircher seems like he gives absolutely zero shits so, in the absence of proper townreads, i'm calling that a townlean for now too. i think everyone else is too close to the null line to go one way or the other for me.

This is beautiful. Daitsi knows how deep my catchups can go, and knows my catchup style is either intermittent post, or wall'o'fluff. Also note the "mech filler" comment.
I'm pretty sure Daitsi also knows how I can utilise mech, hell I turned a loyal 1-shot neighbouriser into a 1-shot cop AND left enough crumbs to build the witches house previously. (Still proud of that, Pooky you should remember that too seeing as it was your slot I damned. )
The other thing I like about this post, is the misyeet setups happening here.
I'm town, so is Ydrasse and Amy. "For similar reasons". I'm mech fluffing, Ydrasse "has not really done anything" and Amys posts are posted for the sake of posting.
There is not any scum mentioned in this post. Either confirmed or mech'd. Bearing in mind Nakata and Infinity were both lurking it out and I don't recall Chara being the most active either.

ok first of all, the fact that you don't even know how to spell my name shows how much you actually know about me. but anyway - i don't know you. within the mafia side of things, i have had *one* interaction with you, modding a game when you were on an alt. a game that you were town in which was a scum sweep, so forgive me if my impression of your play from that one encounter isn't the best. i've forgotten most of the details from that game (fuck was it boring) so i have no clue what your attempts at mech were there, and i haven't read any of your games otherwise. so no, i have no clue how you utilize mech nor do i care, judging by this game your mechplay is godawful. (if you're town.)

THE MISYEETS SETUPS. in a game that turned out to have the opposite alignment wincons. i'm getting shit on for scumreading town and not trying to get scum yeeted. how much of a brainfart did you have at this part?

I was sure we'd interacted more. That game is my only loss on that account... sad times.
Honestly I'm still recovering from heat exaustion and the brainfarts are stinky. I admit I'm tunnelled.
This still stinks of deepwolf setup, honestly.

in the realm of mafia, we hadn't.

and lol. "tanner is pushing town and not trying to get scum yeeted!"
"but this game turned out to have opposite wincons and that's accidentally the most pro-town thing i could've been doing..."
"...deepwolf setup!!!"

like i'm not even gonna pretend to scumread you for this point, because we've all seen townies blinded by confbias before, it's just hilarious.

ircher seems like he gives absolutely zero shits so, in the absence of proper townreads, i'm calling that a townlean for now too.

Inactivity makes you townlean them? Why?

it's not inactivity, it's the random pop-ins, giving his thoughts, then fucking off and not sweating about the pressure on him. i will admit that i don't actually know whether that's +town for ircher, but as said - in the absence of people acting townie, i'm fine going for a weaker reason to townlean someone.

pedit: i didn't mean just from today. random pop-ins to give his thoughts (213, 258) while not caring about the wagon/pressure on him strikes me as somewhat more likely to come from town.

"people aren't acting townie so amma pull reads outta my butt."

OK not as bad as I'm making out, but ya know, subtle signs are as important as the big ones.

yes. i said it before (let me know if you care about me digging through, i'd guess you don't) i'll say it again, i need anchors in this game. i need *some* reads to orient myself around. if the whole game is acting weird? yeah my standards are gonna lower.

No... no you don't. You have a baseline. if people don't meet that baseline, scumread the lot of them. No mercy.

pls. stop telling me how i play. u r rong. i need anchors. baseline is flexible. if everyone is being acummy or null, baseline goes down.

why is not getting killed so important?

because i'm town, and i don't want the town to waste a yeet on me.

Gone from "You absolutely should not yeet me." to "Just fucking yeet me and get me out of the game".

So far this stinks of a desperate and deepwolf setup.

??? what? if this is saying that i wanted to get yeeted earlier - no i didn't? that post is obviously saying that i don't? nowhere in Stage One did i say to yeet me??

if this is saying that i wanna get yeeted in Stage Two... yes???

Love your ignorance here. It's cute.
You are so assured in that you are town, and your ability as town... that you are apparently 100% vital to the town wincon.
Remind me again who's wincondition you're playing to?

yeah, i didn't get what you were trying to say. i'm not "vital" to the town wincon. but i can recognize that (at least in a game with normal wincons):
- yeeting town sets back the town wincon.
- i am town.
- therefore, yeeting me sets back the town wincon.

apply "furthers" instead of "sets back" for the silent star wincon. like i'm not instrumental to shit. but i can recognize that my yeet would set back or help my faction. i'm gonna express that.

why is not getting killed so important?

because i'm town, and i don't want the town to waste a yeet on me.

I thought you meant not getting NK'ed.
But you was saying you didn't want to get limmed?

yeah, my "i need help not getting killed" in 341 was referencing the fact i had a grand total of *gasp* 3 votes on me at one time, and that i don't wish to eat the yeet. i will neither confirm nor deny whether i want to die by nightkill.

in fairness, context was based around eliminations. but like he said, a grand total of *gasp* 3 votes on him. He wasn't even half way to yeet, so why the survivalist attitude? Because the deepwolf setup is failing a little, maybe?

tanner made a joke about not wanting to get killed because he had a moderate amount of votes on him??? scum????

Tanner made a not-joke to a not-joke response to a not-joke answer.
not a joke. Just a bad smell....

so... "i can't attack the survivalist attitude anymore, so i will throw baseless shade"? got it.

Spoiler: mama, please don't cry, i will be alright

yin

, are you a criminal?

i'm not sure if there's a point asking this, considering we don't know if he's telling the truth either way, but that then goes for all questions, sooo.

Hey look another mech discredit attempt.

didn't.. take yin.... as gospel?? scu m ?

Tanner... mechanic... bullshit.... O.O
Also thank fuck for Ditto.

yep.

why is not getting killed so important?

because i'm town, and i don't want the town to waste a yeet on me.

hmmm....

is there a meaning behind this "hmmm"?

Amy is officially a townlean now.

was this caused by 389/390? if so, what gave you a townlean?

for the record, amy is giving me a townie vibe as well, but i can't put my finger on it.

i kiiinda wanna townlean ydrasse for 407? i have no idea what happened in ms rpg, but i've been getting the feeling that infinity sounds "...?" too. though i'm not exactly the best at reading infinity myself so /shrug. by the time i finished reading, the "...?" feeling on infinity has disappeared and has been replaced with "yeah ok i have no clue how to read her i will just ignore her for now and hope someone else does", but i'll keep that townlean on ydra.

i am

not

getting any townie pings on clidd this game, which i think is somewhat concerning, considering that every game with him so far (that i was town and thus had to read him), he'd give me those townie pings and he was town?

ok friends are calling me, i got to go so i will finish the rest of this a bit quicker - liking tweetie's posts bc energy but also not really worrying about her as she's one of my "will probably stop being so townie later if scum" reads, and i'm also liking chara for ??? reasons idk i'm probably playing with fire here, i've heard spicy things about its scumgame ok cool bye

The defensive strikes again. Almost like my rep proceeds me. Tanners already rattled I got the sus on him.

literally all i did was ask how you're reading me

god forbid i ask someone why they scumread me to try to read them

and again - the only reputation of you i know is you playing town in a game that ended up being a scum roflstomp. so get off your high horse please.

Still rattled you though didn't I?
And no I wont, my god complex is kicking in and frankly trying to stop that is like trying to stop a speeding train with ya pinky.
It's a toxic behaviour I know, I try and focus it elsewhere when I can.

Oh and is that a bad link? Because it seems irrelevant to the matter.

yeah, people thinking they're hot shit and calling me scum for reasons that clearly do not make me scum rattle me. you got me.

it feels relevant enough to me. i've got scumread for "acting nervous" or "asking people about their scumreads". it's nai. and pretending it's not is... not a good look.

i am not getting any townie pings on clidd this game, which i think is somewhat concerning, considering that every game with him so far (that i was town and thus had to read him), he'd give me those townie pings and he was town?

actually before i go, i just remembered that is a lie, he did fool me once. but also i'm still not getting any townie pings from him this game so take it as you will.

Literally just sus of everyone lol.

"tanner's townread on ircher is bad therefore he's scum"
"but also tanner's scumreading everyone therefore he's scum"
do you hear yourself?

Myself and others, yes. Why?
thing here is it's inconsistant with the rest of your play, you say your bars been lowered, here it hasn't.

"clidd didn't give me townie pings" and "ircher gave me weird, moonlogic townie pings" can coexist. if i lower the bar for townpings, i'm not gonna townread someone for the utter lack of townpings - i'll just be a bit more creative in finding the townpings.

It would be interesting for us to discuss your read on Robert when you have time. Something tells me he's someone like ''town acting erratic/sporadic'' but not ''scum planning a push''.

it's 2am and i have a headache (an actual one, not related to this game) so i'll likely sleep soon, but i'm not sure i've got anything to say here that i've not already said. his points on me just felt really reachy. and while i know that is not necessarily scum!indicative of itself, the fact that he froze and stopped posting once he found out one of his points is moot, as opposed to started re-evaluating his push... i don't like it. it's not a slam dunk case in any way (and i'm not pretending it is), but it's the best i got so far.

i noticed you started off saying he's scumpinging you, then later on you said you don't vibe with his wagon - have you explained what changed your mind here?

Scumreading someone but not vibing with the wagon are two very different things. You can solidly scumread someone and not vibe with the wagon. How else do you find associatives?

okay? even if so, why do you have such a problem with me asking clidd for an update on his reads?

Who said there was a problem with the asking?
The phrasing around it is what I'm drawing on.

okay, sure. i can agree that you can both scumread someone and not like their wagon. *however*, my question to clidd was in response to his 423.

where he clearly said that he suddenly thinks robert is town rather than scum, and that is why he doesn't vibe with the wagon.

so i don't see what's the problem with my question?

@Tanner

Initially he pinged me as scummy, but after I started theorizing about his course of action in a scum!Robert scenario, it didn't make much sense that he specifically selected you to push, mostly because of the cost-benefit.

He attracted a lot of attention to himself and ignored your town ping on him to go into a 1v1. If you were the one who went to him first, it would make more sense for scum!him to respond appropriately with a scumread, but he was the one who went after you and started the conflict, which is why I don't see a plausible *scum motivation* in his actions (and made me reconsider the initial impression on him).

i don't really see the issue with cost-benefit - at the time of his push, i was a relatively popular scumread, having a few votes on me and not having gotten into the game yet. so not like my "vague townping on robert" was worth much of anything or like he had much to lose there. besides, he's not familiar with my game, i wouldn't say it's unlikely that scum!him thought i was a relatively easy townie to push, not being aware that a shitpush on my slot is exactly what i needed to wake up.

Freeze after lighting a spark between the two of you would also be terrible for his credibility. Would scum!Robert just not care about that?

i don't think it's an issue of not caring, i think it's an issue of not *knowing* how to respond to the new information because he was hoping his push on me would be enough to show that he's solving, at least for the time being. like, look at his recent posts, does this look like a townie who's genuinely evaluating the game:

Why did Robert think Datisi was in the game and which player?
This seems like something we should really know.

I don't know any Datisi, Pooky brought something up about a Datisi and I I get this, Datisi and Tanner are the same player?

well first of all, this is a lie, you played in a game i modded, but giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you've genuinely forgotten about me - the second part still feels off. it has been confirmed multiple times, by me as well, that this is an alt of datisi. again, one of the major points about why i'm scum (shutting down townreads of other people) has been showed to be moot (as i was shutting down a townread of myself), and there's no explanation or response from him, just more playing dumb. he's obviously not bothering to even *read* my response to him.

I see people what to eliminate me on day 1 again. I take that to mean I'm right about Tanner being scum.

this also makes no sense. like, unless this is trying to say that i'm scum, and i panicked, and i told all my scumbuddies to immediately dogpile on robert... what is this even supposed to mean?

I didn't like this when i saw it, honestly.
Strawmanning. "Everyone wants me limmed so I'm on to something here" does not equate the implication that you, a known mafia veteran, would panick and ask your buddies to dogpile. Given your buddies are Nakata, Infy and Chara, they all know better anyway. This is a BAD reaction.

what? "everyone wants me limmed so i'm correct" pretty much implies that scum wants him limmed because he's correct (because surely it doesn't imply that town, who has no idea who is who, would magically want him limmed for having a correct read). even if he didn't think that it was me specifically who told my team to pile on, it still shows the thinking of "scum is piling on me".

There's means and ways to secure a "panic" elimination. Now admittedly this is an inverse objective game, but gotta keep up appearances, right?

i'm just pointing out that i don't get why you're calling it strawmanning when i don't see how else to interpret robert's claim.

Spoiler: all reason aside

Seriously? Clidd is probably my strongest tr so far.

good for you, was there a point in posting this? (also, please don't quote full wallposts if you're gonna respond to one line. highlight the relevant part, then quote.)

I think Robert’s probably town. Town!TSE made a very similar kind of slip in a game he was in.

for one, robert is (probably) not tse, but do you maybe want to link this?

The mechanics And purpose behind the Yin and Yang players aren’t clear enough for me to just blindly assume something like there has to be scum in me/Chara/Pooky just because of something Yin said.

+1. yin said he's a thief. until we have more info as to what the hell his role is here, i don't think we should be listening to what he's saying.

besides, i highly *highly* doubt hectic + isis would make a game where townies can just ask an npc for who the scum is, and that they would give an honest answer.

also saying this right now, if robert ever flips scum this game, nakata is locktown and i'm deathtunnelling ydrasse until one of us is dead.

More Yin discrediting. There's not even a thought Yin could be accurate here. Note also the defence of a buddy and threat towards a townie.
Oh, and eat my wall post. Context is key and I'm leaving nothing out. Bold is mine btw.
Scum know the setup. Just like last time, we had a major effect against us.
I'll say it again.

Occams Razor is an amazing concept for a game.

and I fully expect Hectic and Isis to troll the collective orbs off the player base by placing such a mechanic in a

Silent Star game which are known for screwy as all hell mechanics!

DEFENSE OF A BUDDY AND AN ATTACK ON A TOWNIE IN A FUCKING REVERSE WINCON GAME ARE YOU SERIOUS

and even then, that was only valid for if robert flipped red - he didn't. and even then, the fact that that only takes place after robert flip, would mean that scum!me would first have to get robert flipped, have him flip green (bad for scum!me's wincon) *then* somehow use that to get even more townies flipped even though that is even worse for scum's wincon like what

Gotta keep up appearances. I wouldn't put it past you, yeah I may be wrong on the experience I have with you, but you strike me as the smart kinda deepwolf. You gotta keep up that appearance.

this is once again confbias, either real or faked. because this isn't "this post is scummy, therefore tanner is scum", this is you deciding i'm scum and seeing every post i make as either me pushing my scum agenda or me setting up a galaxy brain deepwolf. and i don't you're even denying it at this point.

i think Yin said he's a thief because the character he's being is a phantom thief.

right. i still don't think it overrides my other points, that we genuinely have no clue what his role is and whether he'd be truthful to us.

yin

, is yang a criminal?

pedit: i vaguely remember seeing town!robert act a bit more freely in the game i modded, but (1) been a while ago and (2) not like i was putting in effort into reading him there. i'll try to skim his completed games at some point to see if anything interesting pops up. maybe. idk i hate meta research.

Discrediting Yin but still interacting? Interesting.

not taking yin as gospel but still thinking that there might be value in interacting with him? what is nuance, amirite?

Nuance, as defined by the Merriam Webster, a subtle difference or variation.
You've been out to discredit yin from the start, why bother interacting now? I mean it's clearly for your own amusment at this point as it's nothing exactly constructive you're trying to ask.

"i wasn't gonna blindly trust what he was gonna say but i was still gonna interact with him because *something* might come off it, either now or later". this was my stance, this was the stance of the majority of the game. and the only problem you have with me having that stance is because you've decided that i'm scum so therefore anything i say is scummy.

does playing on a different account help with that?

so far, yeah. but i've never made it to endgame with this account, which is usually where my nerves really go off the rails, so remains to be seen.

ay yo ircher, wanna place an actual vote on someone?

First time for everything, right?

pointless filler

Welcome to my brain. it has lots of it...

aight

I have suspisions.

do you plan actually talking about this?
I am pretty messed up on heat and medication at this point. and seeing as it's come up elsewhere, I'm on non-opioids because oh boy do I react to those, I take a mixture of Naproxen(Aleve) and Pregabalin(Lyrica) day to day, with Nefopam(Acupan) on the bad days which leaves me super messed up. (Why Americans call everything by brand name will always confuse me.)

ircher wagon feels like a wagon on a townie who's being weird. and distracting from a buddy who's caught with their pants down but people are giving them a pass because "???" "what if they're lhf".

Nothing much to say beyond people who are survivalist give me the heebies.

the most survivalistic bastard you'll see in a game, nice to meet you.

pedit: didn't see anything that shows they can't both be scum. that's just what my gut is telling me right now.

The thing I hate is people always want a case of STRONG points, never lots of weak ones. Even when the weak ones massively outweigh any solid town reasoning. Survivalism is the biggest one. Most town I know don't care about being elim'd as long as their information gained is decent.

good for them, i'm not like most town.

Wow thats an old game.
Also I don't see the relevance? you're coaching town a little?

the first example that came to mind of me going "you're town so you need to care about your own life, getting yourself yeeted is getting the only confirmed townie (to you) in the game yeeted, fight it". like you said "the biggest one is survivalism, most town don't care about getting yeeted" i do. i very much do. have for the longest time.

i'm not going "two competing wagons must be t/s" > "robert is the scum, ircher is the town".
i'm going "i'm scumreading robert and i'm vaguely townie on ircher" > "their wagons are competing, i think they're t/s"

Speaking of weak, order of operations is something I'm using as part of my toolset rn, and seeing how it helps me. That second line to me reads as Robert Town, Ircher scum.
This is just a general note for me to call back to at some point for my own universial shenangians.

?

Exactly what I said.

i mean, that was saying that i don't get your point here, but ok. it felt you were saying how you're scumreading me and from there you think i'm spewing robert as town and ircher as scum, but they've both been flipped and ircher is obviously not scum, so... idk.

573 does make it sound like it has to do with Robert scum. which, sure, i could see it.
where do you get town for Ircher? he's been pretty null for me. maybe a little townier for the response to you asking him to vote and Ircher sitting on his Yin vote instead.

err, yeah, my current guess is that scum would want to subscribe to the easy ircher wagon. but i'm not saying it's impossible robert and ircher are both scum (or both town).

i talked about it in 328 and 336. like, he started receiving pressure, and instead of doing traditionally townie things he kept doing his own thing? i thought that was somewhat townie.

Not everyone responds to pressure. Generally unless you know a players meta it's NAI. As scum I flail like a beast under pressure, as town I'm next to usless under pressure too. it's just how I am, I'm more reflexive than active.

ok, what does this have to do with anything? do you wanna show how using that read makes me scum or...

Ircher doesn't really respond to pressure in my experience.

i mean, ok. i have played with ircher once about 2 years ago (not counting marathons). so, uh. not sure what it has to do with my alignment or why you're pointing it out. unless the answer is filler again, in which case, shrug.

i'd have hoped seeing so many pedits of ydrasse screaming how ircher is a bad vote would've made me think she's town, but they did not. sad.

"Aww Ydrasse didn't give me a reason to townread her."

yes?

It amused me.

glad to know

Spoiler: i just can't deny

i mean, i agree that Ircher has some votes, but it feels early to say he's an easier wagon when iirc Robert had the same amount or more (at least 3, by my count), and i believe i make three on Ircher.

my point is that scum want an easy wagon on a townie. and i don't think robert is a townie. therefore robert *cannot* be an easy wagon at all.

also considering how much discussion on robert there is, and many people are going "hurr durr lhf" (while ircher is picking votes up effortlessly), robert doesn't feel like an easy wagon at all.

Thing is optimal scumplay is never to take the easy wagon D1. But to derail it.

okay? this is relevant to my alignment how?

have you read what i've written about robert and why i'm voting him? i saw you earlier asking that there was a robert thing, and like. what do you think of my case?

I'm in ISO right now and WHAT CASE!? THERE IS NO CASE HERE.

i don't fucking write cases i wrote one proper scumcase in my life and it was a disaster. but i'd talked about robert plenty of times up until that point and pretending that i didn't make my reasons clear is straight misrep

Well I'm missing them clearly.

posts up to there where i (majorly) talk about robert: 323, 328, 545, 565 (there's probably others, i just ctrl+f'ed "robert" in my iso and skimmed through.)

note while i was looking for these posts: i did mention in 552 that a small part of my read had to do with meta. but it was genuinely such a small part (because it borders second-hand meta to me and i have learned to ignore it) that it's basically ignorable.

actually i don't care enough about it, hopefully he's gonna come back and make his alignment really obvious, one way or another.

why you voting chara, pooky?

Literally the entire case is a meta read. Amazing. And one you're not even that bothered about.

it's not. i'd never played with robert before.

But you have modded a game with robert, and previous game is still meta... so it's a meta read.

the vast vast majority of my read on him had nothing to do with meta. i was scumreading him for his bad attack on me, his bad follow up, bad patterns to pressure (or whatever it was at the time, i don't remember the exact timeline). like, just because i had *seen* him in a game before, doesn't mean i was *using* that game in my meta read. because, uh, i was the mod of that game, and my brain works differently when i'm modding and i know everyone's alignment.

Case on robert is hes been caught in a lie about knowing mains/alts

it's not. my main points against him are the garbage push he made on me, then freezing / not knowing how to react once the information about alts came to light (second part of 545).

This is 100% absolute horse crap. Your case was entirely meta based and backed up with ketchup/catsup pretending to be hot sauce. I wanted to feel a burn, all I felt was sweet tanginess.

it. was. not. meta. i didn't know jack shit about robert's meta. are we reading the same game?

Apparently not. because i ain't seeing what you're putting down and it certainly ain't blowing my socks off.

sorry? maybe actually read my iso instead of just nitpicking everything i do as either obvious scum or mastermind deepwolf?

pedit: i vaguely remember seeing town!robert act a bit more freely in the game i modded, but (1) been a while ago and (2) not like i was putting in effort into reading him there. i'll try to skim his completed games at some point to see if anything interesting pops up. maybe. idk i hate meta research.

That would be really helpful.

debatable. second-hand meta usually just makes me tunnel what i already think. and you'd think that would stop me from saying "i should do meta research" but it does not.

do you plan on linking that "slip" from tse?

Tanner i’m very interested in your response now.

here's a take - i see absolutely nothing town-indicative in what robert has posted in his return.

upon getting back, he started getting pissy, doing the most surface-level omgus. he repeated not once, not twice, but three times that he's mad he's being wagoned for "not knowing alt accounts". i explicitly said that i don't give a shit he didn't know who i am - my problem is that his original attack on me and his reaction upon learning about the alt both reek of scum. his original points on me were garbage, and he has showed no re-evaluation of my slot upon learning the new info. even now! he chose to completely ignore me and what i'm saying (and why i'm voting him) and instead just go omgus someone else. you'd think town!him would, i don't know, at least *address* his read on me (you know, the thing that got him into this mess in the first place) by this point?

why the hell are people reading him as town? because he got mad? like, ircher called him out, he wasn't doing jack shit other than being mad and insisting he's being wagoned for not knowing alts. that's not town-indicative behaviour. and the "it's obvious i won't make it to night so people defending me are suspicious" like, you had 3 votes as an early day wagon, who the hell are you kidding by pretending to think your yeet is already set in stone?

Kinda like you're getting a lil shirty with my single handed push on you? That I've been sus on you the entire game? That you know by my rep I tunnel and its rare I stop? how about your points? Your persistent meta, using that he got caught out by not remembering every player and alts in a game he played in? Showed no-revaluation because why would he? Who you are had nothing to do with this push on you that I recall, I may be wrong.
Theres something amazing here though.

you had 3 votes as an early day wagon, who the hell are you kidding by pretending to think your yeet is already set in stone?

Coming from the wonder defender. Beautiful.

i don't know shit about your rep and i don't care. my points on robert weren't meta and framing them like they were as you're allegedly reading my iso is disingenuous af.

Ooooo I got to you didn't I?
I am reading your ISO, I am sharing my thoughts as they happen. I have not seen ANYTHING that suggests anything other than meta. It's busywork at best.

yes, you got me annoyed. congrats?

and again. "his original push on me was bad", "he didn't try to reevaluate at all when he learned that his og push was misplaced", "his activity patterns correlated with the amount of pressure he was on, which is scummy" had n o t h i n g to do with meta.

Nakata thinks that friend Tanner is likely town.

could Nakata elaborate on this?

Do I smell a connection? A forced interaction?
It smells either way.

god
forbid
i ask someone
how they read me

yes how dare you.

smfh i know right tanner trying to read someone by trying to figure out if their read on him is realistic or bullshit, how fucking dare he

VOTE: infinity

Literally 3 posts before this with Infinity interactions/mentions.
"BE YEET FRIEND! I WILLST SEE THOU AGAINST SOON!"

sigh

:3

no. 2

for the record - i still would prefer to yeet robert. but i see everyone is going by the "he came back and *gasp* made posts and showed emotion, obviously town!!" logic, so.

i'm back to thinking amy is on the scummier side of things. i don't know why, but some of her recent posting feels like she's not happy to be here. (before you ask why i voted infinity - because i'm not townreading her either and there was already a vote on her.)

however, while i was starting to feel better feelings about nakata, 866 feels slightly off to me, specifically the last line. like, i get the idea behind "forcing townbloccs is +scum behaviour", but, that's a *big* part for why you're voting your preferred scumread? i dunno.

tl;dr, reads probably being trash.

Pretty sure this vote is weaker than an RVS vote, and the disclaimer is here again.

I think Tanner is nervous scum Once again we have the self-aware "oh woe is unto me, my reads! They are trash! so low as to even be unworthy of pigs muck!"
-Dramatisation by me. Im that way out currently :3

letting people know when you're aware that your reads aren't what they should be? what is honesty?

No self-meta to back this one up? Interesting.
Peoples reads are generally naff, that's the thing. you're just making excuses here.

do you *want* me to find instances of town!me being honest about the fact that i'm not confident in my own reads at the time of posting them? again, tanner is scum therefore everything he did is scummy.

i will be doing absolutely zero second-hand meta research, thanks.

how is it supposed to be "obvious" you're town here? you're not being townie.

No but you expect us to. And pretty obvious to you I'd imagine.

no i don't. if i have a second-hand meta point on someone i will present it myself.

And yet...

have i said "ackhucally this is my town meta, go read the 250-page mini normal 1337 so you'll see" anywhere? if i think i can make a second-hand meta case, i will directly link it to the relevant part.

that amy/nakata back and forth was so unpleasant to read, what the fuck.

Tanner, what makes you think I’m unhappy to be here? I’m really excited about this game, so I really don’t understand where you’re getting that from?

your recent posts before my 868 felt kind of bland and boring. and 844 felt scummy. i'm not too certain about your being scum right now though, recent posting felt better. i'll probably shelf it back to think about it later, as i doubt you're getting run up anyway.

clidd is probably town. also 967 (now that i'm actually reading it and not sleepily skipping over it) does feel like town ydrasse. i don't think i agree with the idea that scum!infinity > scum!nakata, but i wouldn't be *terribly* surprised i was wrong there. to me it feels obvious why nakata isn't extending the same mentality from robert to infinity, and i guess i don't really find it scummy, but this is probably better left for him to answer.

Posts are bland and boring (been reading his own apparently), there's a scummy post but behold! He is upon the fence! Amy is an established SR of Tanners at this point from the gist of the posts, so this jarrs me a little bit. "i'll shelf it for now because you're not getting run up anyway" - I hate this, I hate this so much. Why not case a scumread and get it going? At least establish it? And before you say anything, I've been on you all dang game.

because why would i? i'm a practical person. it takes time and effort to try to iron out a read, a read that i know that (1) won't do anything because i will not manage to convince people to vote amy anyway (2) would not be as good as it could be if i wait a little and get more info. some people take time to be sorted it's not a bad thing to admit that. not everyone needs to be sorted right away, it's ok to take time and strategize about how to get your own reads. again, shows you know nothing about my play.

Thing is I'm pretty good at picking up peoples playstyle. So far you've been pretty passive about this whole thing.
You're not even being reflexive. you are just full, on, passive. you're not ironing out a read at all, and with enough conviction in a read you can sway peoples minds. This is a game of psychology. Just being confident changes a lot.

Like I said, my god complex (fucking BPD) has kicked in, I am now pretty damned confident in myself and my ability to do what I do. Is it true? Well it won't let me say no... but you get the idea.

ah yeah, i was totally being passive around the infinity read. or the robert read. or the ircher read. i definitely didn't try my best to do what i thought was the best for the game and save loltownie ircher to wagon obvscum (which turned out to be correct! i was right!! fucking silent star!!! in any other game i would've eaten the nightkill on n1 for that but noooOOOOO)

Spoiler: i love that guy

To be completely honest, you actually haven’t been very nice to me so far. I have no idea why?
I don’t see why 844 was scummy. That’s typical how I solve. I’m just trying to figure out who to vote for. If this game was based on who I absolutely would not vote for, this game would be hella easier.

apologies if i've been rude anywhere, but i don't think suspecting you to be scum or asking you why you're posting something is not being nice? we're playing mafia.

844 felt like trying to paint non-scummy things as coming from scum. like, the "if he's so certain on robert!scum, why pivot to tweetie" part felt kind of intentionally trying to make his actions more malicious then they really are.

How do you solve? Normally I can work out how someone plays and see their style. You're not scumhunting, you're not town hunting. You're not hunting at all that I can see, not even reflexivly.

i've been townhunting and scumhunting, but you're been ignoring those posts because "this read is pulled out of his ass" or "he doesn't wanna iron out on this read" or "he hasn't made a proper case on that read" or "this is obvious setting up buddies/townies" so like

Fucking hell is like you looked into the future on me...

>_>

you quoted my wall where i said i thought clidd was scummy to say "really? he's one of my strongest townreads" without explaining why you think so, asking for my reasons, or trying to change my mind. that's a scummy post that adds nothing to the table while attempting to make it look like you're contributing something. so i asked what was the point of posting it.

your constant "oh i'm so frustrated, i don't have a strong scumread, i don't know where to vote, woe is me" are really starting to sound fake.

saying "i don't know who to vote and i don't wanna misyeet" is one of the easiest things to fake as scum. it also adds literally nothing to the conversation. the longer you keep that act up, the more fake it gets, and i'm gonna call you out on it.

I'm cracking up again, your efforts so far have been so half assed that you can call someone out is amazing.

yeah i can. i had stances. you didn't like them but they were there.

*looks around*
Your stances have for the most part been so weak I can blow at them and they'll fall over I reckon.

sure. ignore things that don't go along with your scum!tanner tunnel hell.

Look I ain't here to cause beef, I'm here to solve the game.
So far, I'm doing pretty damned good.
If you're town, you got nothing to fear. because my plan will show I'm wrong before we get to Yolo.

debateable. (the solve the game part, i believe that you're not in this game primarily to have this argument with me.)
you are not.
and thanks, i'd rather not have to go along with your ~plan~ that fmpov most likely results in an escaped scum when we can avoid that altogether.

[Tanner]

from what i gathered, when yin doesn't want to answer a question (either because he just doesn't or because the answer to that question had already been provided in the earlier part of the post), he just gives a random fact? which seemed to cover a wide range of subjects, unsure how they could all be related to the game.

[Tanner]

optimistically, it further convinces the rest of you that i'm town. realistically, probably nothing.

i'm an asshole who cannot bite my tongue when i think someone's read on me is awful. as for what we're getting out of it... probably nothing? even though flea does look scummy for other reasons, my gut is telling me that fae is capable of this level of stubbornness and confbias as town, so it's personally not helpful for reading faer.

[Tanner]

or, if you still hate yourself, i guess analyzing other aspects of the game.

but getting carried by pooky sounds much more fun...

[Tanner]

i find it really funny how both flea and amy are apparently using occams razor but arriving at the opposite conclusions

idk how much time in the day there is left but i would be interested in hearing tweetie's take on ydrasse before we spare her if possible (or rather, what tweetie thinks of pooky's case on ydra)

[Tanner]

what is the yggdrasil game everyone keeps talking about?

[Tanner]

lol i use it too clidd, i just found it funny coming from someone like you who gives off such a serious and formal vibe.

and uh yeah, another nightkill would be ridiculous. i'm just brainstorming the reasons that mason pt has for existing, because it doesn't seem like it's very useful right now. and my guess is that things don't just exist for the sake of it.

I've been trying to lessen that sense of seriousness a bit, as it's a feature that came about because of the language barrier, but yeah, I can imagine why that would sound funny.

Do you think this says anything about my alignment here?

probably not. i can imagine both town! and scum! clidd wanting to appear less serious if he happened to grow tired of that style, i don't think it's ai.

Flea's theory doesn't seem likely to me considering that we wouldn't just solve the game by asking those questions, but the process fae's using doesn't sound malicious, though the persistence isn't pleasant.

Need to see a flip to judge better.

whose flip do you need to see for this? because tweetie hasn't self-hammered so she's for all intents and purposes basically flipped town right now

[Tanner]

Spoiler: some d1 clidd posts

Regardless, it's a decent vote for information. I'll give a try:

VOTE: Infinity 324

Moving on (before going back to Nakata)

VOTE: Infinity 324

Do you have any takes besides Nakata/Ircher?

pedit: I want to know all of those (literally)

I need to ask some specific questions for Infinity, but I didn't feel any malicious intent in the way she's been approaching the game. She's still reserved compared to my experience with town!she, but no scumping on her last set of posts. So, fine. Not super towny or transparent, but fine.

Personally speaking, I prefer to keep the pool between Ircher and Nakata.

A wagon on Infinity doesn't look very good in the period of time that we have and there are worse slots than Infinity to elim (more informative too).

My problem with the scum!Infinity theory is that she could've just avoided posting sus stuff like "Ircher towny" and keeping coasting until forced to react to a wagon on her.

Sorry, I'm not seeing.

But I wouldn't mind being wrong if an Infinity wagon materializes in elim (and also a scumflip).

ok, i'm gonna make like... an inverse of a read here that i made when i was scumreading infinity on day 1.

so, my "tell" on infinity was that she seemed to weakly call ircher scum, then disappear when people were actually trying to kill him, then appear at the last second to go "no no guys ircher is actually townie ahaha". now obviously, this was both right and wrong (because fucking silent star), but clidd's progression on infinity strikes me in a sorta... similar way?

like clidd starts off by calling infinity scummy, then votes her, then unvotes her on ??? reasoning, and keeps townreading and defending her on ??? reasoning, but it's obviously such a defense that wouldn't convince anyone. i did call them weird at the time, but once infy flipped red i didn't think much of it because the posts looked too bad to be scum/scum because i really don't think they were meant to convince anyone. but opposite wincons, no? when looked back in that light, they make *much* more sense. defense for the sake of defending and looking good later, but not one that actually stops anyone.

however, my other problem here is that if clidd is scum, who is he scum with? mainly, he went into the day going "flip ydra/tweetie/tanner, ez", and i don't think scum!him goes "yeah like flip these three townies and get 3/4ths of the way there for town's wincon lol ecksdee". i thought that would mean partner must be there (and fmpov can only be ydra, which would make sense if pooky is correct), but now he's swapped to mt/pooky/tanner, and now i'm paranoiaing pooky/clidd because i *still* think scum!clidd doesn't hand town 75% of their wincon to try to gain towncred that way

because if pooky is scum here and he flips first, everything he said is wifom, no? or goes for whoever flips red first, if they do.

[Tanner]

pooky probably talked about this somewhere in his giant reread posts but it just came to mind so

but this is partly why i feel like partnerhunting in traditional sense is difficult-to-impossible, because town is just gonna ignore whatever the first scum said and how would the other scum play around them and why did i join a bastard game

[Tanner]

i had a thought that was like
what if we yeet whoever we think is really townie here which is tweetie right
and then
and then fucking hectic goes "achkhually nevermind that was a lie earlier, the wincons are standard shit, you just yeeted your most townie person fuck you"

what gave me this idea was the fact that yin originally said there were 4 criminals, and (i think?) he seemed to say criminals = scum, but we know (1) yin and yang are opposites and (2) yang is in a mason pt so logically yin is scum but if yin is scum then surely he's a criminal too?? so maybe there's only one scum alive and we will go insane partnerhunting partners that don't exist

[Tanner]

Link to VC

pooky is one of my stronger townreads, yeah. but talking about possible scum!clidd partner (i saw you said you think it's clidd/flea), do you really think that that is likely? that scum!clidd waltzes into endgame like this and just starts correctly pushing townies in a way that gives him very little to no towncred? like, scum!clidd isn't a gamethrower, what is he doing here?

[Tanner]

i think "what is scum!clidd doing here" is a somewhat easier q to answer than "what is scum!flea doing here" because i've been thinking about faer slot ~approx my whole late night walk and my mind has never been more blank

pedit @amy: that was mostly a shitpost, but i had to get it out of my system

[Tanner]

@Tanner

I didn't understand how my sporadic course of action would fit into a theoretical world of scum!clidd operating.

mostly your interaction around infinity - initially scumread her (to get her wagon going) but once the wagon is going, "change your mind" and start defending her in a way that doesn't actually convince anyone of her bing town so that she goes through, but in theory people remember you defending her and go "yeah that was townie"

pooky is one of my stronger townreads, yeah. but talking about possible scum!clidd partner (i saw you said you think it's clidd/flea), do you really think that that is likely? that scum!clidd waltzes into endgame like this and just starts correctly pushing townies in a way that gives him very little to no towncred? like, scum!clidd isn't a gamethrower, what is he doing here?

I'm apathetic town, not apathetic scum, lol.

i mean, i wish i could just take your word for it lol but unfortunately that's not how mafia works

[Tanner]

like i think it would maaaybe make sense for scum!you to go "yeah uhh just yeet these townies lol idc" if there was your partner there, i don't think you do that with so many actual townies

i wanna say "scum!clidd doesn't get apathetic" but that isn't something i actually know since my only encounter w scum!you was rather short so

[Tanner]

Idk but I’m having a hard time thinking it isn’t Flea. It’s possible Pooky could be right on Ydra but outside of the whole conviction thing, I’m not really seeing it. Scum!Ydra does these weird hedgey kinds of posts but I do definitely believe Pooky thinks this because he keeps asking Tweetie to persuade him on her Ydra tr.

But after Pooky and Tweetie, you and Chara seem to be doing the most solving.

Well, you may be right. I would like to see Ydra doing some more solving. I know she’s not feeling well but then apparently so is Chara and that’s not stopping it.

flea could be scum. like the whole thing around eod1 of sitting on my wagon then going on nakata then back to sitting on my wagon for the next two days is ???. but i feel like i keep banging my head against the wall because flea by far feels like the most anti-town slot but what does scum!flea think fae is doing here? those wallposts against me certainly aren't going to get fae ascended? like what is the endgame? fae keeps talking about yin wifom but fae is actually betting on wifom surrounding faer slot to get out?

i thought ydra was townie because her reads (esp her reads on me) seemed to have like, a deeper level of thought than i've seen scum!her have, but like she was pretty obvscum to me in TM so of course if she drew scum again here she would be playing differently. and maaaybe her infy/nakata partner read on d1 feels a bit tmi and pooky does bring up good points but no pair outright *makes sense* and that is why i want out

[Tanner]

take that i'm not sure makes sense - *if* flea is scum, then faer partner is non-me, non-chara, and they are arguing against yin and pushing for my yeet. i think, if flea is scum here, they need one of me/chara out of this game asap. because fae has committed to screaming how yin is right until fae gets proven wrong, right? and if fae wants to ascend, fae should be broken out of that tunnel asap so that fae can start townspewing in a more... traditional ig sense? so the more time for that, the better?

i tried to remember why i wrote out chara being scum with flea in the first para (not talking about its broader play, i feel like i had some specific associate reason) but other than "flea is trying to murder criminals" i don't even have one, like flea has specifically been trying to murder me rather than flea

and the fact that i cannot remember what i was thinking 3 minutes ago is a sign that recent insomnia is getting to me and that i should try to get more than 6 hours of sleep tonight

i feel like i haven't in a long time

[Tanner]

@flea, okay, cool? but like, if you're scum maybe your best bet is bluffing here. i'm sorry if you're town and feeling that way but i'm not just gonna take things at face value and just *stop thinking about them* because you're right now saying in big bold letters that you're never leaving. if it bothers you, feel free to ignore me.

[Tanner]

like flea has specifically been trying to murder me rather than flea

me rather than chara*

what is proofreading

[Tanner]

tweetie can you please convince me of ydra-town because I am not getting there on my own :<

@Tanner, scum!Pooky never makes this kind of post.

i don't get why that post is out of pooky!scumrange, but i'm townreading pooky anyway so

[Tanner]

i mean, i am kind of interested why a post like 3845, which seems to be just "can you talk about this read we disagree on" is out of scumrange for someone with such a good scumgame

like again i think he's town here i just genuinely don't get why he's town for that

[Tanner]

i mean, i am kind of interested why a post like 3845, which seems to be just "can you talk about this read we disagree on" is out of scumrange for someone with such a good scumgame

like again i think he's town here i just genuinely don't get why he's town for that

There’s just so many things he’s done in this game. He’s just never scum here.

again i don't disagree

i was just wondering why you singled out that post in particular

this is moreso my curiosity than anything, probably doesn't matter

[Tanner]

never saying no to a hammer test for myself, but flea's latests posts make me feel like fae is already working on the reason to Not consider me conftown after i don't hammer myself

amy, fae included pictures of yin and yang in 3904.

[Tanner]

truth be told i was thinking about hammering myself as soon as i got on y-1 to (1) get the fuck out of here and (2) reaction test, but if y'all want me in the game a bit longer i promise i will not

[Tanner]

sorry to disappoint, i am not you, scum!me takes that self hammer as soon as the opportunity presents

but it doesn't matter, if i'm tested noe i'm getting flipped soon so whatever. gonna be fun to read from the dead thread.

[Tanner]

one is written from a town perspective the other from a scum one

town!me maybe does selfhammer immediately but won't do it if the game really doesn't want me to

scum!me always selfhammers

idk why i bother because you're gonna nitpick everything i say anyway but

[Tanner]

i figured it was odd to have a mason pt with just a player and an npc, and there we go. if only i could solve the game as well as i'm apparently able to guess the setup.

[Tanner]

You have to be trolling if you think Tanner as scum will refuse to self hammer on X-1 and proceed to somehow get Chara eliminated, and then SOMEHOW get eliminated himself

this

i don't think there is any universe where i manage to get myself on y-1 to not hammer myself, then decide to stick around to "solve", "accidentally" send chara to heaven (or like, anyone really), and then *still* manage to get myself spared after that. like, even if you think that was my original mastermind plan from the start, i have kiiind of blown it by constantly going "fuck you fuck me fuck this game i want out", don't you think? after throwing multiple fits how i hate this game and don't know how to solve it, you think nobody would bat an eye if i then went "achkhually now i want to stay in the game and solve it, oopsie did i just spare scum :3"?

pedit: oh my god.

[Tanner]

also i had this one bomb ass threory on why clidd/pooky are never ever scum/scum, so in the case that pooky flipped scum we could just insta-spare clidd, but i guess that's pointless now

[Tanner]

funnily enough as i was reading what i missed, i got the feeling of "hey, wouldn't it be funny if this were a ydra/flea team", though i think that regardless of faer alignment, flea pushes for ydra today so the post above this one isn't that helpful

what did occur to me - flea spent a good amount of time yelling yesterday how it doesn't matter if fae is scum bc fae is never leaving the pit, etc, etc. now this was making me doubt scum!flea because scum!fae *has* to ascend, and it's gonna be really really difficult for fae to suddenly start arguing for faer own spare. since, it seemed like one townie was gonna be able to stay behind.

however, with the reveal that there is another "nightkill" and that we need to spare *all* townies if we wanna win - that gives scum!flea a very easy and natural opening onto pushing faerself (is that the correct form?) as a spare later on. because all town needs to be spared now. if i were to assume that scum knew that they were gonna have another "nightkill" tonight and that the town will have to spare every town member if they wanna win... it's making one of my main doubts on scum!flea kind of disappear right now.

ydra feels like the most likely partner for flea, since chara/flea would be kind of a meme, and clidd/flea would require scum!clidd to blatantly push a pro!town wincon without even trying to grab towncred. i don't think ether are necessarily *impossible*, but gun-to-head that's what i would say.

aaand now that i type that out, i do start thinking how there's been much fewer flea/chara interactions that flea/tanner interactions, and how that's weird if we're both lockscum to fae, but it could be that i'm a much more reactive player to that type of thing than chara. will think about this should it become relevant.

[Tanner]

and clidd/flea would require scum!clidd to blatantly push a pro!town wincon without even trying to grab towncred.

actually is this true? clidd was pushing tweetie/tanner/ydra/pooky at some points in some order - he'd know (assuming all town) that at max town can spare of those is 3, and even then he wasn't pushing all 4 at the same time (removed ydra, added pooky), which would mean he knew that max two of the people he was pushing at any given time could be spared... i guess it makes clidd!scum more plausible than before? god fuckin

[Tanner]

VOTE: tanner

[Tanner]

ydra, you feeling any better?

[Tanner]

you mean the person whom my townread on has kind of fallen off in the last day phase? i'll pass, thanks.

@ydra, i feel like we had ~unfinished conversations~ on your read/mindmeld on me throughout the game, which is why i asked - don't wanna be making you push yourself (god knows this game is a headache) but i feel like that might be useful to talk about in more detail.

[Tanner]

ydra, i don't think i have anyhing for you to answer that's like "quick n easy question that gets done in a minute"

like mostly the way you've been pushing me with citing mindmeld / samebrain / don't think he's inside scumrange / etc. but i think pooky has made a few good points in that we haven't exactly been samebraining the whole game. which is why i wanted to hear you elaborate on your read on me / where and how it's been changing because i don't think you've given an actually elaborate answer to that (if you did link me because i missed it)

[Tanner]

actually in a flea/ydra world, ydra getting yeeted now in this gamestate is kind of probably not a good thing...? oh how lovely would it be to have actual content to be able to read flea on

[Tanner]

yin

, how many criminals in yin/yang/hectic?

[Tanner]

So who is my partner, exactly? Clidd or Ydrasse?


Also. *points at ISO*

oh look... content...

"you don't have a complete and confident solve yet?"

"look at me tunnelling mech for 379 posts, content!"

pedit: 380*

[Tanner]

yin

, how many criminals in yin/yang/hectic?

I love when the evidence presents itself...

evidence of what?

[Tanner]

what am i supposed to ask? hasn't he already handwaved away questions like "are you evil?" and "what are criminals?"?

and also nothing is stopping you from asking whatever you think will be the most helpful for convincing the rest of us, so...

[Tanner]

that sure is a wall - thank you ydra, i don't have the time right now as i'm about to leave the house but will give it a proper read and thought in a few

I'm fine with tanner first and but I want dats to get a chance to say everything he wants to say.

knowing my accuracy, you probably just wanna do the opposite of everything i say x_x

i will give the game another look and see if the new info changes anything for me (and read through ydrasse's post)

[Tanner]

I think the way things are going, me and Pooky won’t be alone in the masonry

this is probably incorrect. there's 7 people alive, 5 of which are town, and 3 of which are non-confirmed townies (i.e. not you or pooky). town wincon is sentencing 5 townies, we've sentenced 2 of them, which means we need 3 more.

we need to sentence every single living town member to win. if scum has another "nightkill" and they make another townie unsentenceable, the game is mechanically lost for town. and considering nobody is coming out celebrating their scum victory, i'm assuming that's not the case.

[Tanner]

So you think no one else gets sentenced. Yeah I guess that makes sense because game would end tonight regardless if we get it right or not.

I’m okay with voting you, so now we need to figure out who else is town. Could it be Flea/Chara?

i don't know, i'm just saying. if scum has another "make a townie unsenteceable" shot, this game is literally already lost and hectic is kind of an asshole for not calling it, so i'm assuming it's not the case.

(if i had to guess, i'd guess the next two nights will be classic nightkills on the two masons, so that the game starts approaching 3p lylo, if we don't win before that.)

clidd/ydrasse? ehh. still need to actually read the ydra wall (phoneposting over dinner rn) and i'll get back to you on that. i thought you townread ydrasse?

or if that's saying you think flea/chara are scum - could be i guess? like i said, after another mason got revealed, my "flea is town because fae is insisting on not getting voted" read lost a lot of its meaning i think. and i do think the flea hard pushing ydrasse immediately is weird of they're scum together.

though i think i found an interaction earlier that struck me as non-s/s between chara and flea, so gth right now i'd say this is clidd/flea, but uhh. game hard.

[Tanner]

Given we've no way to verify night actions, the claim request is pointless.

how do you know this?

i'd still like to know how you're aware of this, Flea.

I assume there's no PRs in this kinda game, quite simply.

^^ this interaction struck me as anti-partnery. like, flea has just "slipped" about "knowing" that the game is all vanilla, and chara doubles down on it and pushes fae to respond to it? i know scum often likes to distance, but i have a feeling this kinda distancing often isn't what scum first thinks of

but *again*, i don't think chara used this ever again after the interaction, and it did keep voting flea, so if they were planning distancing for now (since i imagine scum wants to look Not Aligned in the endgame), then /shrug

[Tanner]

Datisi, why do you think the scum decided to mason me instead of you?

hm. because they don't know how much of an idiot i am in endgames, because they think i'm still pushable, because they want flea's tunnel on the yin solve to continue for a little longer, because you were being locktowned by literally everyone, because you have a wrong read on Someone here...

i dunno, a lot of ideas come to mind, the one where you're clearly town to everyone seems most likely. like, you definitely feel like the utr that rocks the least boats and closes the least avenues by becoming a mason.

[Tanner]

i think its fairly universally known that I wanted to send you out next after Tweet and you are probly getting yeeted today.

so you'd have to be right on something that I'm wrong on for them to prefer me to you if you are town no?

i am probably getting yeeted yes, and if i had been mason'd then you'd be getting yeeted, so they don't "gain" anything there.

if i had to think of reasons why they'd rather have you longer in the game than me - i hadn't given strong reads yet. coming into today, scum potentially has no idea which way i'm gonna swing, because god knows it could go anywhere. to the contrary, you have given a clear suspect in ydrasse.

this would i guess tie into flea/(clidd/chara) theory, but i'm hesitant on relying toooo much on such analysis, so take it as you will.

and if flea is *not* scum, this keeps fae tunnelled on me for longer. and if i *then* flip (which i most likely will today), flea looks worse tomorrow for having kept the lol tunnel on me. if they had mason'd me, flea would've been out of the tunnel immediately, and again, without having given a hint what flea thinks otherwise, god knows.

so like. you being mason'd over me keeps the gamestate the most "stable" for scum i think.

[Tanner]

Flea said to both Ydra and Clidd that fae knew they were both town. What do you make of that?

it's faer conviction that the scum are me/chara, so everyone else is town. i don't particularly think anything of it that i haven't said about faer tunnel already.

[Tanner]

hmm. pooky, do you think me/flea this game is comparable to me/krazy in chara's folly? i thought of that game after typing out 4140. sure, you getting mason'd keeps the game most stable, but does scum!flea want the game to be stable? or like, when krazy ic'ed me (and i was arguably the "unstabling ic"), he didn't want the game to be stable because he was in the collective poe.

am i overthinking this? i feel like i'm committing *some* sorta fallacy by comparing the two situations abd thinking how scum!flea would've mason'd me. ugh...

somehow in typing out this, i've convinced myself that ydrasse is town because she would've mason'd me and idk anymore

i mean if pooky dies first she probably gets out the game at some point, and i don't think i caught what pooky's read on her was after tweetie got her case out anyway

this is why i hate nightkill analysis. or rather, nightmasoning analysis

[Tanner]

UNVOTE: tanner

anyone wanna let me do the hammertest? :3

[Tanner]

im actually thinking maybe flea is town because theres no way anyone picks flea to endgame over infinity

This post got me thinking would scum really have wanted Infinity before Nakata? More likely, they just went along with because they figured when Ydrasse caught her ellitelling, she was fucked regardless.

i had a thought about infy/nakata at some point yesterday... i had a feeling that nakata was not supposed to go down in the First Stage of the game. mainly because infinity's read on nakata seemed like old-school distancing i guess? like i find it difficult to believe that they had infinity consistently push nakata (more or less) to then plan for nakata to go down right after her.

or maybe i'm looking at it wrong and nakata was the one who was supposed to go down instead, and his constant avoidance of infinity was meant to make her be able to deepwolf later on. but that would mean that a third scum was supposed to fall after nakata, and uh. this is why this game annoys me, it's wifom galore and we don't even know if scum had the game go according to plan or if they were winging it

[Tanner]

i'm wondering if i should reverse my d2 scumread on chara. because i thought it had s/s relations with infinity. but now that the wincons are revealed to be the inverse of what they usually are, i should townread its relations with infy? lol idk

[Tanner]

amy, i'm not sure your view of the game is exactly correct right now, mostly because flea's voting patterns on day 1. i think it was brought up earlier (by you? i don't remember) that flea was sitting on my vanity wagon while nakata had a real chance to get yeeted, but once the wagons shifted to infinity, fae finally jumped off me to nakata. (checking the votecounts, fae was either not voting or on me during that time.) if fae is scum, and scum was planning that hard to yeet nakata first... i don't think scum!flea would've been dancing around the wagon like that? though seeing all of infinity/clidd/chara were voting there, if you're right about ydra!town, maybe scum didn't want for all of them to vote nakata.

[Tanner]

Ydrasse even said something about getting Infinity if Nakata flipped scum, so she was definitely meant to outlast him.

you think so? i guess that's one possible conclusion from that, but like i said, i can easily see nakata's "i don't wanna vote infinity, she will be sortable later " to be meant as a deepwolf setup - sure, it makes nakata look *worse* on the day after infinity flip, but it also makes him look that much better after infinity flip + reversed wincons, no?

and damn if that ydrasse infy/nakata s/s read isn't still ringing to me as potential tmi... i keep sitting down to read ydra's wall and then i keep distracting by whatever y'all are posting lol

[Tanner]

If Flea’s scum and we followed faer plan and Clidd flips mafia than fae could I suppose still try to push either of you but?

i mean, fae would have to, if we flip a scum then the game is potentially marching to a final 1v1, and i'm assuming fae doesn't get out before that 1v1, so, yeah?

but also flea has given very *very* few reads that weren't related to mech. so realistically, scum!flea would be starting with an almost clean slate after having faer "theory" proven wrong.

[Tanner]

i'm reading that ydra wall and i'm like
both scum and town on her again
why

given the way i perceive you in my head would be more nervous/unhappy with being scum. i know that that's something easily fakeable but to me (and this is mean maybe? sorry) i do see you like a hand-wringing woe is me sort of scum player who like, even on an alt doesnt just come out and post something like that at all when you don't have to even acknowledge it imo?

this part kind of confuses me - where did you get that vibe about me? or rather, i don't have a feeling myself that i was giving off that vibe in 2175, so i'm curious where is this coming from?

you did lose me for a while in the robert area v satoru area but i just didn't agree at the moment, there were times where i went like "what is he doing" and i wasn't like, 100% sold but i felt good about you still? your actions didn't feel like they added up to something scum wanted to do because you were kind of like, a bit all over the place and the robert thing was going on too and it didn't make sense for you to scream about that compared to other stuff you could have been doing like letting the ircher wagon just go through

you uh. totally lost me here.

because i rely on tonal familiarity a lot when im trying to solve things

this sounded fine until it didn't - do you think you have a good grasp on the tonal differences between scum! and town!me?

[Tanner]

VOTE: infinity

Spoiler:

i okay with this. my mentality when thinking about infinity went: "oh, i remember i didn't like something she did early game", read her iso, went "oh yeah, i didn't remember this, but it's bad when i'm looking at it again." she doesn't feel like she's... herself, this is hard to describe unless you've played with her a lot. town her is more Here and in the moment, free-flowing and though she sometimes gets flak early game it usually clears up even during d1. and the fact that it isn't happening here is like. ya okay her being off wasn't just a fleeting thing.

i think there's something to be said about satoru's unwilingness to vote infinity and positing her as someone who can be read later, while also... like. to me, the mentality about robert (we should get him out now as he's bait and we will not be able to solve him at all late game and he will just get killed by scum into a loss) (which i think is a scummy mindset in general; i lost a post i was trying to write earlier when my spare laptop's battery died wherein, i felt like satoru did none of the legwork to solve robert and was just fine kicking him over and see what he flipped which is the /exact/ sort of mindset that he's like, talking about will happen later down the line) isn't being extended to infinity, which doesn't make sense because like... what is a mt vote doing right now? why not vote someone you scumlean when there's a wagon on her when it will let 1) town!satoru live longer to do things and 2) fits into the mentality of "well all scum die eventually."

idk. just going like "any scumflip is good even if it's low info lol" and then going "nah better targets atm" when his life is on the line is dumb as fuck.

if infinity flips scum i'm going to kill satoru or die trying tomorrow. i haven't felt this confident on my reads since titus v nancy drew and i was on fucking FIRE there.

Actually it was the other way around but Ydrasse but having rolled scum with Ydra, I think she far more self-aware as scum.

yeah that's what's getting at me - if ydrasse is scum in this game, she has absolutely decided to unapologetically powerwolf the everloving shit out of this game, and i don't think that's the mental model i connect with scum!ydrasse?

[Tanner]

flea. chill. i'm flipping today. if i flip red, you can follow the rest of the townies towards victory. tanner/chara are not winning here.

[Tanner]

lead* the rest of the townies

not follow

i'm tired

[Tanner]

/shrug, correctly tunnelling the deepwolf who managed to fool literally every other person in the game sound like a pretty credit-gaining thing to me, but what do i know.

[Tanner]

we are all criminals on this blessed day

[Tanner]

i told myself i wasn't gonna but here i am anyway

Suddenly started to SR Ydrasse and retracting the SR of Chara?
Sus.

Trying to case me as best as possible so I don't get yeet when I didn't want to be yeet?
Sus.

except this doesn't make sense. like, let's think about this, i'm scum that is next in like to get yeeted. if i (1) get yeeted today, i'm flipping scum, and nobody is listening to anything i said in my last few days. like, you could argue i lowered my ydrasse townread or stopped scumreading chara "for the wifom", but literally everything i do in that case is gonna be wifom anyway. and if i (2) get conftown'ed by not hammering myself, but then i start pushing for chara, and then it flips red... i'm literally gamethrowing because i'd spend the last two day phases screaming how i don't want to be in this game. and suddenly going "nvm i actually do wanna play, let's spare chara!!", like? either i'm a brilliant scum mastermind who planned the whole game in advance or i'm an idiot who didn't realize that going "i hate this game, nvm i actually don't let's spare scum" would look god awful for me. but you can't have it both ways.

and again, this doesn't make sense because of the same reasons. if i ascend today and i flip red, who tf will give a shit about me casing you? in fact, amy already said she doesn't think we're scum/scum. what's the problem here? unless this is a point of "tanner is scum wasting time on casing me when i said it's pointless"... and i keep doing that when conftown has said she's annoyed by it? also that implies i'm doing nothing else, which like. lol. okay.

was i ever even scumreading chara? i thought earlier her interactions with infinity looked like partner unwilling to bus, but uh. that doesn't hold water anymore.

[Tanner]

also note, this morning i realized by "masons are about to start getting killed so that the game starts approaching 3p lylo" doesn't make sense, since 3p lylo is already unwinnable for us - either scum ascends and town loses, or one townie ascends and then there's one townie and one scum left and ??? happens.

[Tanner]

¶

Votecount 3.2

[3] Satoru Nakata:

Morning Tweet, PookyTheMagicalBear, Ydrasse

[1] Tanner:

Flea The Magician

[1] Morning Tweet:

Satoru Nakata

[1] Flea The Magician:

Chara

[4] Not Voting:

Amy Dunne, Ircher, clidd, Tanner

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to sentence. If there is no majority by the deadline, plurality will decide.

The deadline is in (expired on 2021-07-21 00:49:41).

Joint moderator ISO.

Nakata is the PoE side that appears in most of my solves, so:

VOTE: Satoru Nakata

E-2

so i'm rereading alive slots around here, and i come to this. and i'm thinking, the vibe in the thread atm was that nakata was definitely going down. so this move from clidd struck me as weird (as in unlikely to come from scum), especially since chara said a few posts ago that it was willing to go nakata (2712). like, why jump on the wagon (which will reveal the wincons) when there are others obviously willing to do so.

(however, ctrl+f'ing "nakata" in the second part of clidd's iso, he did consistently call him scum, maybe he thought he would look worse if he didn't jump on.)

what inspired me to write this was the fact that flea had all the reasons to think that nakata is scum (nakata got confirmed as a criminal around this time) and fae didn't touch his wagon, until giving intent and nakata selfing. so fae would fit into the "calling buddy scum but not doing a lot to force the yeet". and chara would maybe fit that too...

and reading a bit further, at that point clidd chucked me into poe (even though at the time i felt like i was pretty obvtown due to infinity yeet), and he ignored that reasoning when i brought it up, *however* once the wincons are revealed, he calls me town because of a "reread" and refuses to give elaboration on that. this just feels... backwards? to the point i'm not sure scum!clidd does it, because he strikes me as a more traditional scum player rather than "do the wacky shit and get townread" one.

aaand i'm back to flea/chara???? @pooky pls can we talk about chara's folly, am i insane for equating that game to this

[Tanner]

the clidd being a traditional player is something that i was thinking about too for the norwee nk because that feels like a very baseline “this person pushed out scum; scum kills them because they are town from the push they made” without thinking about the revealed wincon and is like, normal maf

if i had to guess, i *think* norwee got killed because he was never getting yeeted (which means he probably survives to this phase) and he's also pretty good at spewing himself town, despite the position on the infinity wagon?

[Tanner]

re 4248: do you think that's + or -partner for them? because i imagine the two surivivng scum want to be properly distanced coming into Stage Two, if they want for both of them to get out. which is mainly why i'm looking at flea/chara and flea/clidd, they seem like the most... antagnoitst-y pairs right now. (if you ignore me/flea, since i'm like blatantly town here.)

[Tanner]

i guess i'm also concerned about yesterday, both flea and chara doing the "ok i'm fine with never getting sentenced, i need to find the other 4 town" thing. but that's a long looong road for flea/chara if that's their tactic.

pedit: flea/chara. no worries, we can talk later, i still need your response to 4181 anyway.

[Tanner]

antagnoitst-y

antagonist-y*

i butchered that lmao

[Tanner]

pooky pls

[Tanner]

pooky if you're trying to get a reaction out of me, i'd appreciate you if like, didn't

if the final yeet of the game comes down to be a 1v1 btwn me and scum!flea i am seriously going to be pissed

[Tanner]

no

i've learned that town's ability to Do Insane Things is infinite, and from the vibe i get from flea, faer tunnel is not outside faer townrange so no, no i would not

[Tanner]

are you purposefully missing the point? i'm not arguing that i'd be conftown because of passing up the opportunity to hammer myself. i'm arguing if i (1) passed up an opportunity to hammer myself, then (2) said that i actually want to stay in the game (which would be going against literally everything i've said in the past 2 days) and (3) pushed for yeeting chara before me, who would (by your tunnel) flip scum, that i would effectively be claiming scum.

pedit: lol what flea thought that was clidd? idk gonna post this anyway i wasted 3 minutes typing this

[Tanner]

pooky do you think i'm scum here

like has anything in the past few pages shaken your read of me

because i am tired x_x

(ydra i will come back to it later after i digest it a bit better, currently taking a break from some paperwork)

[Tanner]

my best bet for scum but not enough that i would outright bet the whole game on it

[Tanner]

it "conftowns" me in a sense that scum!me always takes the opportunity to gtfo. i know it doesn't literally conftown me - but after a passed hammer test, i'm literally always getting flipped, and hectic will conftown me after that. so basically it does.

[Tanner]

so when i *don't* hammer myself, will you admit i'm town or will you go back to saying i'm trying to mastermind my partner getting yeeted first?

[Tanner]

You don't have to support Chara, you just have to shit on others enough that chara comes out townier.

because shitting on others, nay, screaming and getting into a wallwar with them, when i'm about to be confirmed to be scum is a *great* way to make the rest of the town think they're my partner! my fucking god, you've solved the game.

[Tanner]

i am flipping first. i am always flipping before chara. in your world, any disproving of you i do will be that of confirmed scum. do you genuinely think that people are not even gonna think about my associates after i flip, but will blindly keep thinking that you're scum? like. i mean at this point i guess i'll take it as a compliment? if my scumgame is able to make people think "hey, i know tanner just flipped scum and he's spent the last *checks notes* entire game slapfighting with flea, but he's disproven fae *so well* that i still think fae is scum"?

[Tanner]

pooooooky

you were doing so well solving the game and stuff, what are you doing now

[Tanner]

pooooooky

you were doing so well solving the game and stuff, what are you doing now

yea thats the thing

i was on fire

so why would the scum hand me this POWAAAA

i've already asked you how you think this game compares to chara's folly

because i have this personal tinfoil that it makes flea town, but if flea is town, the game is. kinda fucked ngl

[Tanner]

pooky, i get this feeling that you've gone from basically considering me a mason to heavily ignoring me, and i'm not sure why?

[Tanner]

re pooky: flea/chara for the ez game ez lyfe solve, flea/clidd for the "idk i guess" solve, and clidd/chara as my tinfoil solve.

i have done nothing yet to check if clidd/chara make sense together (i vaguely recall thinking that they don't, due to clidd pushing most people not named chara), but i think they're most likely in the scenario where my tinfoil turns out to be correct.

i'm still not... 100% on ydrasse being town, but at this point i feel like i'm slowly giving up trying to get a solid read there because it feels pointless and if the conftown is that certain on it then it might be literally pointless.

as i type that out, i did get a flash of chara/ydrasse, but. don't have anything other than "short 2:30am gut feelings" to back that one up with.

of course, this would probably be easier if you were willing to talk to me about whether the parallels i'm seeing of this game and chara's folly make any sense >_>

[Tanner]

Like sort your reads out. Am I scum or not?

it's as if... i don't know your alignment...

anyway gonna retype up my tinfoil then sleep, and screw you for making me do this on my phone

last year, i played in chara's folly (someone else can grab the link, i'm sure not going to). the game had a few similarities to this one. namely, i was decently townread but not utr, scum had to choose two townies to make conftown, and i was in a long loooong shitfight with krazy.

from early day two of that game until me becoming an ic (day 5? idk been a while) krazy was absolutely tunnelled on me. like, anything i said was scum to him, and pretty much all his posts had some sorta "tanner is scum" part in them. krazy was in almost everyone's poe, and i was pretty certain he was scum, but he kept surviving until day 5 because ~game unrelated bullshit~.

then, i was made ic. and krazy threw a fit how there is no chance in hell he would pick me, the person who was tunnelling him, to be ic. and then (after some questionable moves) scum!krazy won that game.

i recognized the parallels so far earlier. and i got thinking, does it make sense to think that flea, if fae were scum, would mason me? because faer tunnel is obviously doing faer no favours. it would be a pretty elegant way to get out of the shitfight with me.

like, in chara's folly, the game was going bad for scum (krazy was decently scumread) so they made a controversial ic pick. if i were to assume flea is scum here, then i think it's safe to say that the game isn't going stellar. so does scum!flea pick the mason that by far keeps the game as stable as it was before?

it could be that the situations aren't similar enough, since we are hunting for two scum instead of one, and we're voting town, and whatever else. but there's still this voice that is making me doubt that flea picks this. which is why i really wanna hear pooky's take on this because he played in chara's folly and ik he is town so

[Tanner]

maybe that whole theory goes into the garbage because scum can just conftown me by flip and if flea is scum, faer partner had already pushed me for yeet (considering everyone other than flea has) and i'm being stupid overthinking the obvious mason choice so take your pick

my alarm goes off in way too little time, why am i up

[Tanner]

90 - flea
60 - chara
35 - clidd
15 - ydrasse

i've said things about flea, and yeah, with play like *that*, my read can only truly be scum or awful!town.

clidd is less likely to be scum than chara, even though i did find things about him i don't like, mainly the play around infinity day one, he's had moments that i kind of find hard to imagine coming form scum!clidd, while that wasn't the case from chara.

ydrasse is like... i guess town, i'm not 100% there, but like. would really appreciate if she answered my earlier q's fully or finished the case, but she probably gets spared regardless of doing that so /shrug.

i'm thinking back to my idea that scum wants to keep me/flea fighting if we're t/t. the longer we scream at each other, more likely we'll end up in endgame together and fucking it for town. but the scum in that scenario is... who? ydra/chara, since clidd started the day pushing for me? i don't know. that's the only thing giving me anxiety right now, because surely this 1v1 benefits scum if it's tvt and *doesn't* if we're tvs? sure would be lovely if the confirmed townie who played in that game gave me his opinion on the matter >_>

also will be around less than usual today, so if you have any burning questions, those will have to wait for tonight

[Tanner]

i'm fine to keep stick around + going through things until you're ready to send me out but

assuming i'm right don't listen to anything anyone says about tanner because i think if i'm right

scum's going to scramble to derail tanner even more

if they can :< so just send him out and don't look back on it

i was thinking about this earlier and this is like my dying testament

despite my 15 points on him

and i don't want to forget this

what gives you the impression that scum is doing this? i mean, apart from flea doing... flea things.

this is something i also wanted to ask about. i didn't understand your reads i guess? like you said you felt dumb for thinking me/flea were theatre so What Gives

[Tanner]

tanner i thought could be scum for some time but after the strange game events (and the completion of micro 1020 where i incorrectly thought he was scum) his play here seems much more towny than before

how does that game completing (and the knowledge that i was town in it) impact your read on me here?

VOTE: Tanner

have we played together before, clidd? i would like to play with you again i think.

chara, if you're around - why did you vote me here?

also i need to uhh. read the walls/posts ydra posted earlier, i saw them while i was phoneposting in a rush and then i didn't go back
i will do that in the very near future i promise

[Tanner]

@Tanner - apologies if you’ve already answered but who in this playerlist (besides obviously you) was in Chara’s Folly?

pooky and chara. though i know chara got replaced at some point, so i'm not sure if it was present at the ic reveals. i don't think it was.

[Tanner]

if you are scum, lol gg i never get flipped after you, but i don't think that's going to happen.

ok i'll rephrase - why do you townread me so strongly again? (it's possible you already talked about this, it's late and my brain is a mess, feel free to link or just yell at me to find it myself if you did.)

[Tanner]

i also do feel better going out before tanner because if i’m right this handicaps scum!flea from changing up what fae thinks/being able to engage the game from a new perspective and keeps fae locked where they are so theres less time to do damage control

assuming i'm right don't listen to anything anyone says about tanner because i think if i'm right scum's going to scramble to derail tanner even more if they can :< so just send him out and don't look back on it

ydra, i looked through them, and the first quote is the only one i was able to find that talks about it. i am... not sure i get it. it seems like you're saying that me flipping now is beneficial to scum (so you wanna go first), and then in the second quote it feels like you're saying that scum *doesn't* want me flipped... yell at me if i'm being stupid, but i don't Get It?

[Tanner]

Nice, Chara confirming to be scum (thanks).

i missed the memo, where did chara confirm this?

[Tanner]

something about this feels off to me. like, ydra ypu say yourself that flea /could/ be town, don't you think there's any value in potentially seeing what fae does if faer theory is proven wrong early?

[Tanner]

and like, i still don't get the "scum's gonna scramble to derail tanner *even more*" part, both clidd and chara are voting me right now?

[Tanner]

yeah i don't get 4423 either

[Tanner]

Anyone else seeing this?

not really? it's obviously not as much town on ydra as it is on me. i don't see the issue with wanting to make sure the read on flea is more correct. besides, fles's new content after being proved wrong could strengthen a scumread, doesn't necessarily mean its read will turn around?

however, i'm playing devil's advocate a bit here

[Tanner]

flea /could/ be town and then yeah this sucks but also i don't think that flea really is atp, so /shrug

@amy, she said it here ^^

[Tanner]

and like, i still don't get the "scum's gonna scramble to derail tanner *even more*" part, both clidd and chara are voting me right now?

i don't think clidd is thinking much past "let's flip towny people" and chara i think is scum so... yes i think this is a bad idea now and i think tomorrow if i am flipped they're going to scramble to do what they can to discredit you because they can't afford a townflip nearly as much despite it being what flea needs

yeah, and you're saying that scum is trying to derail me today, but chara is obviously pushing me?

[Tanner]

flea /could/ be town and then yeah this sucks but also i don't think that flea really is atp, so /shrug

@amy, she said it here ^^

Oh, I really don’t see anything wrong with this?

hm. it's just, flea is hard to read with the tunnel, and ydra is not allowing fae tk break out of it kinda. it feels kinda backwards to the point i'm not sure i vibe with it.

mostly because uhh, chara voting me earlier when you said you wanted ydrasse first gave me a chara/ydra ping and i'm trying to work it out and this convo with ydrasse is not helping me and uh >_>

[Tanner]

I still think Ydrasse is town but now I think I might want Tanner flipped first.

what's changed your mind?

[Tanner]

amy, wanna vote me for a second?

[Tanner]

it's at y-2

i just wanna do the no hammer thing, not ready to end the day yet

[Tanner]

yeet

[Tanner]

ok cool that was fun

uhhh now what

[Tanner]

i'm assuming nobody will be scumclaiming by hammering that early >_>

[Tanner]

anyway i will probably be going to sleep sometime soon - and i want to reread the interactions with ydrasse and chara with a rested mind tomorrow. ydrasse pinged me wrong a lot of way tonight, and i really don't want my gutping to be right, so here's hoping i'm seeing things that aren't there.

flea definitely has *some* sorta gambit going on, but... i dunno. like at what point does scum keep doing this. like how far would scum!flea go in hopes that someone thinks "no was scum!flea does that"? genuine question, i've no experience.

pedit: that was a semi-joke considering that if someone scumclaims with a hammer, they're literally throwing the game. you're free to leave it up though, if scum wants to throw *now*, that's fine by me.

[Tanner]

i'm usually against preflip solving like that, but it lead you to the right conclusion this time so i won't complain.

and yeah, i am kind of interested in seeing what flea does now. i'm obviously really not a fan of the way fae's been trying to paint me scum any way possible. but i've seen worse confbias in townies.

[Tanner]

@amy, i'm obviously so desperate to get voted that i need my scumbuddy to help push me, haven't you been reading

[Tanner]

uh

[Tanner]

false masons aren't a thing right? like hectic wouldn't do that to us riiiiight?

[Tanner]

i just had a flashback to to tell the truth ahahaha what the fuck