Mini Normal 2242 | Opossum Mafia | Game Over!

[T3]

So, T3...result?

I will

not

out my result today.

[T3]

I think you should give me a chance to prove myself by flipping someone else. I don't want to claim unless I absolutely have to.

Did you miss this post?

yes

[T3]

t3 why don't you want to out the result

So, T3...result?

I will

not

out my result today.

Why? Didn't you check me?

I won't say.

[T3]

t3 why don't you want to out the result

I have a very good reason which cookie also knows.

[T3]

didn't mean to quote 1416 in 1421.

[T3]

t3 why don't you want to out the result

I have a very good reason which cookie also knows.

How does cookie know?

They know I'm town and they know my result.I don't want to answer any more questions because that could potentially give scum info but they can confirm what I'm saying is true.

[T3]

cookie knows I'm town and knows my result.
I won't elaborate further.

[T3]

cookie knows I'm town and knows my result.
I won't elaborate further.

I don't think there's a normal role that can do this

A lot of pr shenanigans. I'll wait for cookie to come here and confirm though.

[T3]

cookie knows I'm town and knows my result.
I won't elaborate further.

That's cool and all, but... how can cookie "know" you're town?

If you're softing that they have information from the mod, firm it up, because a "read" is not "knowledge".

cookie knows stuff that strongly implies my claim is true. And I know that cookie knows this stuff. And cookie should know my result.

[T3]

cookie knows I'm town and knows my result.
I won't elaborate further.

That's cool and all, but... how can cookie "know" you're town?

If you're softing that they have information from the mod, firm it up, because a "read" is not "knowledge".

cookie knows stuff that strongly implies my claim is true. And I know that cookie knows this stuff. And cookie should know my result.

I can confirm I have info which supports T3's claim. I do not have certainty T3 is town (although if I did, it's unlikely I'd want to say so and paint a big target on their back), but I absolutely would oppose elimming them today.

T3 - is your result evident publicly? or should i simply know, irrespective of that?

I did it. Look and see.

[T3]

JOh. You don't know?

[T3]

Anyways, I'm don't think the neighbors are both town. Most of the games I've seen neighbors in they've been either s/s or t/s.

[T3]

Combine this with the earlier thing and you should seeif you don't already.
Kay?

[T3]

I might. I might not. Either way, cookie knows my result. So if one of us dies the other person will know to potentially box scum into a corner later.

[T3]

@t3 while theres almost guaranteed scum in a 3person neighborhood, I really dont think thats the case if its a 2person one?
Also did you mean, like, an actual s/s neighbourhood? this should be only 1 faction mafia right? And I really dont think it's likely traitor and scum would end up in the same neighborhood.
So like. What.

I saw a traitor/scum hood in a recent game.

[T3]

I might. I might not. Either way, cookie knows my result. So if one of us dies the other person will know to potentially box scum into a corner later.

This is getting really dumb. It's no secret that I asked you and redtea to target me last night so that I could get cleared from both being scum and traitor. I know I'm neither, but the entire point was to get everyone to decide if I'm on the chopping block today, especially since I did play a part in George's miselimination. If you have a guilty or inno on me, just say it. There's no "boxing scum into a corner" here.

same a50

uh well I did but I didn't really keep who I was targeting a secret

Thank you for actually giving information.

PE: Uhhh what. Redtea was supposed to shoot me, not Dwlee. And shooting once doesn't clear anyone, redtea has to shoot twice to account for Bulletproof Traitor.

what.

[T3]

ive gone back and forth on it since then
but with t3 being weird... idk, if he intends to reveal his results after n2, then maybe we could wait. If not, I'd prefer we all claim, since I think it'd be more helpful than keeping a hypothetical protective role around.

eOnce cookie is dead.

[T3]

VOTE: a50 nah

[T3]

cookie is a town mailman who gave me instructions on how to crumb to them by mail last night. My claim fits with their claim very strongly, as cookie will be my only true false positive. I crumbed my result to cookie.

[T3]

It IS TMI. T3 had just slipped real hard. Let's review the facts:

TRAITOR IS ENDGAMED IF THE MAIN TEAM IS ELIMINATED
2 players are outed as Neighbors
1 is now also outed as Mailman

A "can communicate" result is an outright guilty. WHy not claim it?
A "can't communicate" is enough evidence the target is not MAIN SCUM, so why keep it undercover?

T3 is PLAYING FOR TIME. H;s TAKING SU ALL FOR A RIDE. And if you add this to how long it took him to claim yesterday you get: T3 is OUTED SCUM.

I TARGETED JACKET AND GOT NO RESULT

[T3]

the first letter of my first 2 posts were 'nr' then after cookie posted next i realized i forgot to crumb my target and the first letter of those 4 posts were 'jack'

[T3]

happy now

[T3]

Okay who would have fallen for that

No way… did I miss something?

The only reason I can see to kill fua is it scum was afraid of their reads.

This ignores the NK bait they did

Really? Where?

JOh. You don't know?

Anyways, I'm don't think the neighbors are both town. Most of the games I've seen neighbors in they've been either s/s or t/s.

Combine this with the earlier thing and you should seeif you don't already.
Kay?

[T3]

Conveniently, he can't be confirmed or countered.

@T3: Why Jacket?

poe
pedit: yes

[T3]

because my role fits VERY nicely with cookie's role

[T3]

please dont lim me

[T3]

please dont lim me

??? You're acting so weird if I didn't already want to eliminate you I would now. Since when do you plead for your life like this??

i'm literally an investigative

[T3]

that makes no sense why would scum be able to find the traitor with that role

[T3]

dwlee you or zen maybe?

[T3]

Do you have actual reads other than not liking me for pushing you?

Conveniently, he can't be confirmed or countered.

@T3: Why Jacket?

poe
pedit: yes

I don't think this is how a town PR getting run up acts. I asked if he had other reads and he just gave a "yes" in response.

you asked if i had other reads
i said yes
what else is there

[T3]

also the cookie thing isnt tmi i've been locktowning them nearly the entire game

[T3]

@STD: Your "I don't want to lim T3" was the final nail. I already started thinking of the situation when House volunteered to be shot instead of you, and again when he asserted redtea should shoot three again. It looked like a blatant attempt to deter the shot off you (and confirmed the team doesn't have a RB), but if you had voted T3 I probably would have thought it was too crazy to be true.

Wtf.

I don't want StD shot because he hasn't claimed, and if redtea says he's going to shoot there it could out even more power.

Where's your head?!

VOTE: A50

VOTE: house
scum whiteknighting

[T3]

T3's role was designed for Scum to identify their Traitor in at least 2 steps, and the Mailman is their "Miller" (gives them a false +ve)

This is actually close to what I was thinking. Except it makes more sense for cool cookie to be the traitor, since mailman returns a positive to a traffic analyst but a negative to a neighbor finder.

Well.. I could lowkey see your point, with both BP neighbors designed to be -ve utilities for both sides. Scum get failed NKs and Town gets falls +ve (Via COMPLEX VIG though, NOT the TA/Neighbor Finder)

You don't see the problem with TWO players claiming identical roles AS TOWN?

That... completely flies over your head?

No. Just fucking no.

If you were town, you'd be screaming CC at Zen all day long.

VOTE: a50
lmao

[T3]

Ta/Neighbor Finder works PERFECTLY as a town role in the setup.

[T3]

T3's role was designed for Scum to identify their Traitor in at least 2 steps, and the Mailman is their "Miller" (gives them a false +ve)

This is actually close to what I was thinking. Except it makes more sense for cool cookie to be the traitor, since mailman returns a positive to a traffic analyst but a negative to a neighbor finder.

Well.. I could lowkey see your point, with both BP neighbors designed to be -ve utilities for both sides. Scum get failed NKs and Town gets falls +ve (Via COMPLEX VIG though, NOT the TA/Neighbor Finder)

You don't see the problem with TWO players claiming identical roles AS TOWN?

That... completely flies over your head?

No. Just fucking no.

If you were town, you'd be screaming CC at Zen all day long.

This is the part that actually made me trust A50 the most in the beginning. He had the same role as me, and disclosed his before I did. That's what made me trust him because I figured we have the exact same role. But I gues BP traitor neighbour would claim to be a BP neighbour. I also found it weird that A50 went straight to claiming BP instead of trying to bait a shot with claiming Vanlilla. Then later he regrets it...

Can you link to a (completed) game that has 2 of the same roles where both are town-aligned that gives you that belief?

Last I knew, that doesn't happen BECAUSE it leads to town cc'ing town.

I recently played a mini normal with 2 cops. But this is different.

[T3]

Jacket linked it
I think zen is town for his justification of why he tred a50

[T3]

I have never seen an all town hood.

[T3]

I'd vote T3 right now but I'm afraid he might self hammer.

I didn't ask redtea to shoot me to redirect a bullet away from scum. I asked to get shot because redtea was told not to shoot anyone, and I offered myself so that he'd at least have something to do. Then with T3's claim we had a way to clear me of being neither Mafia nor Traitor. Instead, he...targets Jacket.

The problem is not only did he not follow the plan, he didn't feel the need to check me even though he supposedly scum read me almost the entirety of Day 1. All this does is put me in a spot where people already don't trust me and then amplify it, since T3 purposely chose to keep my alignment unknown. He had no legitimate reason to check Jacket, and scum had no real reason not to kill T3.

T3's just scum claiming at this point.

I genuinely didn't remember that when submitting.

[T3]

mods do try to make confusing setups

[T3]

The only proof we have of the existence of a bulletproof traitor is cool cookie's word. In a world where the bulletproof traitor is one of the neighbors with town, that puts them in an automatic CC on day 1. Does that make any sense as good setup design? Because it sounds terrible to me. Mafia would be put in a losing position from the start.

And if the neighbors were both mafia...wouldn't the traitor just claim to the other one?

Neither idea makes much sense to me.

WHAT IS THIS SHADE
independently of the hood i'd be townreading a50

[T3]

Dwlee is not a neighbor so that check is useless.

[T3]

VOTE: no lim
tbf no limming makes sense here

[T3]

I was baffled at first about why cookie got shot but it might have actually been big brain. It stops cookie from getting miseliminated and now we know for sure that there is a Traitor.

Why is T3 still alive?

because i'm town

[T3]

Dwlee is not a neighbor so that check is useless.

I could have told you that

indeed .-.

[T3]

I was baffled at first about why cookie got shot but it might have actually been big brain. It stops cookie from getting miseliminated and now we know for sure that there is a Traitor.

Why is T3 still alive?

because i'm town

or scum just didn't want to nk me because i would be limbait in elo

[T3]

or because scum didn't want to nk me because my check from last night is basically useless

[T3]

Why weren't you blocked?

I have no idea.

[T3]

If T3 is scum then he likely TMI'd that StD is town.

Nah I have a meta tell on STD.

[T3]

TheZenMan - lean town
House - lean town
Save The Dragons - lock town
Three - null town
T3
Jacket - scum
Dwlee99 - lean scum
HawaiianPizza - town

[T3]

bad shade yesterday

[T3]

jacket is like 90% scum

[T3]

well, i assume T3 hasnt claimed being roleblocked.

No result means either roleblock or *side eyes dwlee* ascetic.

what are T3's actions

got no result n1, got dwlee is not a neighbor n2

[T3]

jacket is like 90% scum

Okay.

I know who I'm snapvoting tomorrow.

yikes

[T3]

Was there a reason you checked me btw?

you were a lean scumread

[T3]

i'm just going to tune out of everything jacket says

[T3]

Jacket, convince me you're town
I'm like
going to vote you
but convince me you're town

[T3]

your reads don't feel believable
that's the main part of my scumread.

[T3]

Jacket, convince me you're town
I'm like
going to vote you
but convince me you're town

*pops in*

Results?

*pops out*

dwlee no result. I assume scum have a roleblocker.

[T3]

Let's work this out...

Claims so far are:

Gated vig
TA/NF
Bulletproof Neighbor
Neighbor
Informed Townie/Mailman

That's a lot of power against a bulletproof traitor and 2 group scum, ESPECIALLY if both group scum are also PR's which leaves all of the scum vulnerable to the gated vig (at some point, at any rate).

If at least one group scum is goon for vig immunity, the power balance gets even weirder.

There's definitely shenanigans going on in claimed roles.

my guess is the gated vig is actually the traitor, and 1 of the claimed neighbours is group-scum (and the other is maybe bullet-proof)

This is seriously scummy.

This whole thing where cool cookie is insisting we protect a dead-ass useless PR for multiple days makes no sense.

The only proof we have of the existence of a bulletproof traitor is cool cookie's word. In a world where the bulletproof traitor is one of the neighbors with town, that puts them in an automatic CC on day 1. Does that make any sense as good setup design? Because it sounds terrible to me. Mafia would be put in a losing position from the start.

And if the neighbors were both mafia...wouldn't the traitor just claim to the other one?

Neither idea makes much sense to me.

All of this shade on cookie seems ridiculous. You're effectively going into outlandish conspiracies

[T3]

Okay? So was cookie, considering they were trying to paint the vig claim as scum. I thought that was super implausible. In my view, cookie was pushing on obvious townies.

I was wrong, sure. It happens. I was tunneled on you, too.

Hmm, fair.

[T3]

so uh

[T3]

jacket has moved up a lot of townpoints

[T3]

From what

His reaction is good and I think him stepping away and going "yeah, I was tunneling" in that manner is +town

[T3]

where's math
where are peopleeeeeeeeee
i mean it is4 am

[T3]

t3, who wolf

zen traitor
dwlee wolf
one wolf in you math

[T3]

town std is lazy, posts basically only one-liners and rarely elaborates on his reads in his posts
scum std is shading people a lot, is more confident in reads, makes longer posts

[T3]

Cool.

wat

Nothing. Sorry.

you're not in this game, please don't post in here, ty

[T3]

t3, who wolf

zen traitor
dwlee wolf
one wolf in you math

Bruh

I'm like half the reason you're alive rn arguing that your role makes you town here

It statistically doesn't really matter what's said on today + pocketing exists

[T3]

huh fair

[T3]

Setup

Mafia Mailman
Mafia Combined Rolecop Voyeur
Mafia Bulletproof Ascetic
Town Novice Traffic Analyst
Town One-shot Cop
Town Simple Jailkeeper Neighbor
Town Neighbor
Town Compulsive JOAT (Neighborize, Complex Rolecop, Lazy Roleblock)
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie

I just ran this setup. I think this is a balanced game. Here if all 5 pr claims are town we have an informed mailman, two 1-shot bp neighbors, a complex vigilante, and an odd-night invest even-night useless.

Depending on scum power I think this is pretty balanced. Scum seem to have a roleblocker to deal with investigative claims, and a vigilante is functionally a conftown here. So why would this not be balanced compared to the game I ran, depending on how much power scum gets.

that makes a lot of sense

[T3]

Honestly don't lim me solely based on mechanics. It's easily possible that 2 neighbours have the exact same role. It actually makes more sense given that it's probably mind games from the mods.

LMAOOOO

[T3]

Math town

[T3]

T3 still hasn't said why he was withholding N1 info. He withheld being roleblocked and messaged by mailman for no reason. Why exactly was that?

i literally did


so i wanted to crumb my result to cookie
so that scum could live in fear of my result and i wouldn't have to out it

[T3]

T3 still hasn't said why he was withholding N1 info. He withheld being roleblocked and messaged by mailman for no reason. Why exactly was that?

i literally did


so i wanted to crumb my result to cookie
so that scum could live in fear of my result and i wouldn't have to out it

So, you want to make scum live in fear of your results, despite them having roleblocked you? What would they fear from that?

And what would scum fearing your result do to help town? Scum would just kill you N2, and we would lose an investigative role and wouldn't even know the result of N1.

i didn't know at the time
i could have ben town jailkept, or jacket could have been ascetic

[T3]

i fakevote zen ig?

[T3]

Screw it, Zen/Dwlee/Hawiian final solve
should i vote?

[T3]

I already said this before but prob would vote std. I also scumread T3 and lately also thinking Hawaiian pizza might be scum. He has been coasting by for so long and getting away with not contributing at all and just popping in and out jumping on whatever bandwagon.

You're supposed to be placing a vote now, according to Math.

Not sure about the system math has brought in, just seems very arbitrary. But anyway here is my vote. Also, I know math had a deadline but I think that since we can't afford even one miselim I suggest we take our time and not rush into a hammer.

VOTE: Save the Dragons

[T3]

I am not doing fake voting for the entire wagon holy crap.

VOTE: Save the dragons

Get it over with

Also not everyone has checked in so not like there'd be a quickhammer this fast

at least my solve is probably correct
math, are you here?

[T3]

i am not voting std

[T3]

They either kill him or roleblock him. In this case he was roleblocked, since he got no result.

Again: Why stall on a NO RESULT? What's the point? Scum already know if they blocked him, so why not say it outright?

And even more: THERE IS No ROLEBLOCKER IN THIS SETUP. There can't be. There's a Vig that can't shoot half the players list (

at least

half of it). You don't further cripple them by adding a Roleblocker, a Jalkeeper or a Doctor. And

assuming

T3 is Town, that's also a seriously nerfed role that doesn't ever be more burdened by the existence of a Roleblocker or a Rolestopper. The mist you could do to really really piss them off id to have ONE SLOT untargetable to them (Ascetic or Commuter), and that's really pushing it still.

not a terrible point tbfh

without me in the setup we don't have an investigative and it's horribly scumsided

[T3]

With 4 not vote locked it takes three to fake hammer

Hawaiian (2) - Math, Jacket

T3, Hawaiian what are your fake votes?

VOTE: zen
right here. except now it's real.

[T3]

STD
FYPOV zen and dwlee are both scum if you're town
because they both voted you, everyone checked in with the thread since then
scum had the opportunity to quickhammer if one of them is town

[T3]

NICE

[T3]

House why am I voting you?

We're distancing, remember?

Aren't we all

Just look at that quote pyramid.

LOOK AT IT!

T3 your one attempt at meta on me was doing this same exact wishy washy thing where you shade me and then do a ~idk~ at the end and you were scum

Good thing I don't believe in meta

This is a legit mta tell.

mta = Mafia Traffic Analyst (my speculation)

LMAO
the secomd one actually wasn't a crumb. just a typo