Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Fin

[Infinity 324]

{saber, gypyx, dwlee, unwnd}

you think Saber vs Unwnd is SvS? that seems very unlikely to me

no i'm not thinking about preflips at all

[Infinity 324]

i did think the point you had earlier about them trying to be more presentable as scum or whatever it was made sense

yeah, thing is i feel the same way about toog and dunn and if all of them are town it's like what is even happening

it's possible all are town i guess

[Infinity 324]

[quote="In post 3223, unwnd"]Honestly if Toog is just scum my next scumgame I'm playing exactly like this

Just openly scummy and saying 'yo let's fucking murder some people. wtf is town doing? not enough bloodshed'[/quotime

but toog actually has a pretty good scumgame...they endgamed me as scum last time

i'm not quite sure why you would play this way if you can actually get trs

maybe i'm doing what peta said was bad and shielding players for bad reasons but whatever

[Infinity 324]

yes cakez is town

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: Dunn baa

[Infinity 324]

deviating from the intent of this post because I do wonder what happened to this read

you being towny makes prism slot scummier, also everyone else did townier stuff

[Infinity 324]

deviating from the intent of this post because I do wonder what happened to this read

you being towny makes prism slot scummier, also everyone else did townier stuff

that doesn't feel sound but I also don't think there's an explicit flaw in your argument

elaborate?

idk i just feel like it's relatively unlikely prism would be wrong on you

the everyone else being townier thing is the main one though. it's hard to have a strong townread on prism cause i don't know she plays scum

[Infinity 324]

sorry ulya i should've stayed on saber, forgot about seniority rules

i don't know why i was the suspect here

[Infinity 324]

LET'S GOOOOOO

the one advantage to this if i die is that i get to see dwlee's reaction when i flip town

[Infinity 324]

y'all took your sweet ass time on that one

now why

we all wanted different things and people weren't active near deadline

@dwlee yes

[Infinity 324]

sorry ulya i should've stayed on saber, forgot about seniority rules

i don't know why i was the suspect here

your trajectory on toog was bad and i didn't like your iso on review, the position was mostly consensus except for gamma who loudly objected

my trajectory on toog was pretty consistent right?

[Infinity 324]

infinity i have issues with your treatment of dunn :c

why?

[Infinity 324]

Infinity, I think I get it atp, but could you go over your Prism/Gypyx slot progression one more time, from the beginning?

prism posted prism stuff which i felt was town but can't be 100% sure

gypyx efforted in a way that i felt was slightly scummy

from there it was mostly "everyone else towntold more". i basically have had the same reads on dunn, saber, and toog for most of the game, though i thought toog's posts in the PT were towny

[Infinity 324]

i'm not sure why that should matter?

well what's your problem with it

[Infinity 324]

i'm not sure why that should matter?

well what's your problem with it

wow i just reread my own post

*your trajectory on

DUNN

was bad is what i meant to say

i'm not sure why either

[Infinity 324]

I was hoping for more than that, that's awfully vague

sorry, i don't think much else matters here anymore though?

i did forget about that reason to suspect prism slot so yeah

i also thought there was a contradiction from gypyx but peta had the same thought so i disregarded it

[Infinity 324]

not scum claim

i think it's pretty clear that dunn didn't think he was scum claiming with that post no matter toog's alignment.

[Infinity 324]

How much have your reads changed since this point, if at all? How would you rank the players in an exact order of towniest to scummiest rn?

{gamma}
{taly, ydrasse, ulyana}
{cakez, skitt, toog}
{peta, gooey, dwlee}
{gypyx, saber}

i guess this is it, ordered from t->s within the tiers. toog moved up from good posting in the pt, dwlee moved up after thinking about it more because i think i believe their scumread on me, unwnd i felt was being genuine in ex. his interaction with taly towards the end of the last phase, he was trying to solve even though it looked like he was gonna die.

[Infinity 324]

oh and i got cold feet on peta at the last minute

[Infinity 324]

like how would 50/50 ever be optimal when simply being alive is so strong

eh you're probably right here tbh

[Infinity 324]

@peta dunn has moved around a bit in my reads cause i'm indecisive and haven't been good at reading him in the past, but he never got above a light townread, which for me meant still in the PoE. i was looking for reasons to townread/scumread him above others in my poe, but those were mostly tiebreakers.

[Infinity 324]

How much have your reads changed since this point, if at all? How would you rank the players in an exact order of towniest to scummiest rn?

{gamma}
{taly, ydrasse, ulyana}
{cakez, skitt, toog}
{peta, gooey, dwlee}
{gypyx, saber}

i guess this is it, ordered from t->s within the tiers. toog moved up from good posting in the pt, dwlee moved up after thinking about it more because i think i believe their scumread on me, unwnd i felt was being genuine in ex. his interaction with taly towards the end of the last phase, he was trying to solve even though it looked like he was gonna die.

So here's the thing: I mentioned you come off like in that True Love game because on a lark I read that one over because I was also curious if you'd ever misread town!me (and you did, in that game) and you had the scum towards the middle of your reads in that game, while consistently push the T/T pairs. You ended up getting miseliminated which took scum!creature out with you. I think things are lining up in such a way that this game has become a near perfect replication of the trajectory of that game. As such, the midzone of your reads list is honestly where I'd want to kill in the most rn. (Cakez, skitts, toog, peta) are the full list of names I sus based on this conclusion, so I'd very much like to vote out peta here. If that is unappealing to everyone else though, I'd like to try something else, though idk how the math for this would even work, where we deliberately split the votes so it's scum's choice who dies, thus allowing NKA to be done.

meh i don't think this is a great way of approaching it

i have just been convinced that toog is scum thought idk why i'm just getting when ulya explained it a million times in the pt...

cakez i don't think is scum, maybe he should be moved up

obviously i'm ok with limming peta though

[Infinity 324]

@peta dunn has moved around a bit in my reads cause i'm indecisive and haven't been good at reading him in the past, but he never got above a light townread, which for me meant still in the PoE. i was looking for reasons to townread/scumread him above others in my poe, but those were mostly tiebreakers.

i don't know why you're explaining yourself to me here

i mean a bunch of other people had the same problems right?

if not they should say what their problems were

[Infinity 324]

meh i don't think this is a great way of approaching it

i have just been convinced that toog is scum thought idk why i'm just getting when ulya explained it a million times in the pt...

cakez i don't think is scum, maybe he should be moved up

obviously i'm ok with limming peta though

What do you make of me trying to get our chat to consolidate on peta, and even putting peta in the lead? Was I bussing?

Scum's game plan was to put their most anti-town partner through the game and kill and bus them?

i mean, peta could easily be town here

also, i assume scum did not plan for any of their members to go into the duel

[Infinity 324]

i wish i was townread :c

kind of baffled me that no one else agreed with me and skitt that your reaction to unwnd was super towny

[Infinity 324]

Infinity has me in second to last tier but believes my scumread on her. thonk

not sure why i need to point this out, but everyone above you i have better reasons to tr

[Infinity 324]

(i should again emphasize, that unwnd slot is incredibly hard town at this point, never touch it)

why?

[Infinity 324]

(i should again emphasize, that unwnd slot is incredibly hard town at this point, never touch it)

why?

because in terms of solving once given enough space it was all genuine energized townwnd, he also started getting gunshy on his suspicion of you because saber was pushing you, little bit paranoid, little bit nuanced, was trying to put the pieces together


gammagooey also just came in hot out the gate and was working hard to catch up and put forth content when we'd settled into a weekend lull, his posting didn't feel like it was coming from an informed perspective of someone jumping into the game and he had a scumread on skitter when it was clear that wasn't happening from the posts in the blue room. his catchups have been good.



i also think the way Dunn did a dogcrap non-defense of him "unwnd is an innocent magical girl" looked like a scum whiteknight of a partner given that there wasn't any real weight of argument behind it, it was just a post made to distance himself from the wagon on unwnd at the time without actually derailing it. if it were a teammate a post like that is useless

willing to trust this if you flip town

[Infinity 324]

willing to trust this if you flip town

I'm saying the same things though, and you already TR me?

i didn't see you bring up those points? might have missed a post

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: hold

[Infinity 324]

Who in the pink room wanted Cakez or saber
Atp the best theory I can reconcile is that scum are basically all low-impact

i wanted saber

[Infinity 324]

Who was the alternative to peta, again? It’s probably been said a couple times but I glossed over it

ydrasse was brought up some amount, there wasn't a clear second choice though

[Infinity 324]

I killed a scum, I got energized. Plus, I kinda felt like I had to participate since it was just 6 of us.

Pink room, does this statement track?

believable on the surface but i don't super buy it

i'm mostly biased by the fact that i'm now convinced that toog is scum based on mech and when your dayplay reads don't make sense you should just probably look at mech

also i've accepted that i'm probably going to die here and that's ok because peta is being super towny as well

if anyone wants my thoughts on something specific ask

[Infinity 324]

dew it

[Infinity 324]

tbh y'all can leave peta alone imo i don't think he's scum

[Infinity 324]

why did you dew it

[Infinity 324]

scum can also use it to wifom us, it's best not to give them the option

[Infinity 324]

i guess what i mostly don't understand is why people townread gypyx and saber, yes they've had decent surface-level townposts but that's just not enough at this stage of the game. i can try to explain a bit better the townreads that lead me there; one read that i feel like i haven't elaborated on enough is my cakez read, i though he was really towny at the end of the last phase but i'll find quotes

for me, the taly read is that i feel like there's usually a lot less emotionality in his posts as scum, he can make good posts (tm) as scum but there's not as much personality injected into them. and while i didn't like that he chose to side with dwlee over me and skitt in the pt, i could see his thought progression there and i felt like it came from a genuine place of trying to reconcile the two different worldviews

for ydrasse, i think the fact that she suddenly became very motivated to play the game after unwnd expressed suspicion of her makes no sense from a scum perspective, it's not like that was the only time she was pushed throughout the game, and it's not the type of push that should make scum feel threatened, especially since unwnd was likely about to die.

[Infinity 324]

i guess what i mostly don't understand is why people townread gypyx and saber, yes they've had decent surface-level townposts but that's just not enough at this stage of the game. i can try to explain a bit better the townreads that lead me there; one read that i feel like i haven't elaborated on enough is my cakez read, i though he was really towny at the end of the last phase but i'll find quotes

For Gypyx I personally townread Prism and then his posting in the Blue PT was also good (for anyone who's interested in he went over some thoughts on whether Dunn/Toog would have done the duel differently if they were scum together & talked over his thoughts on Dwlee w/ petapan & unwnd early on).

I do think that most of the game could arguably be placed as surface-level town or better for various parts of their posting so far (except like Toog), but for scum reads in particular I'd be a lot more interested in any particular posts you think are more likely to come from scum than town if you have any rather than *everyone else is townier than them*

i don't.

i'm curious what gypyx's conclusions were re: dunn/toog

[Infinity 324]

i think it's more likely that they're scum together and were trying to look uncoordinated than that toog is town and dunn wrote out that whole post to try to look town instead of just shooting toog and staying alive

gypyx, thoughts?

[Infinity 324]

feel better skitt

[Infinity 324]

Skitter's mad cramping my flow What do I do?

wdym

I keep waffling on 2 different POVs of this game and I'm trying to reconcile that by playing into the gamestate present in the Pink Thread PT to see what is consistent and not.

And if she is town, I want to work with

Skitter

. But her posts about outlining suspicion with my progression over

Dwlee

without digressing into it and saying my reaction to

peta

was bad without looking at the following posts that narrated my viewpoint, vexes me.

I want an outside opinion on whether she is taking me in good faith and if I I to her.

i think she is, it's just that she is not using quite enough depth there. tbh i started out suspicious of your change of heart, especially since you didn't seem the most keen on hashing out exactly what your issues with me/skitt were. and it did sort of feel out of nowhere, it took a bit of an inutitive leap to get into your head there.

[Infinity 324]

i think it's more likely that they're scum together and were trying to look uncoordinated than that toog is town and dunn wrote out that whole post to try to look town instead of just shooting toog and staying alive

gypyx, thoughts?

hi yes

trying to look uncoordinated is defintely a possibility, but i don't think it's a super common page of the scum playbook (feel free to call me stupid if i'm wrong)

but like, once again, maybe his plan was actually to "just shoot toog" for all we know, toog was the first one to spin the bareel there, so it's not like dunn showed any will to not kill toog from what we can tell

huh? he could've put the bullet in the first chamber and shot them deterministically

[Infinity 324]

pink peeps, i kinda forgor, did pete show up early or late as a wagon option?

middle i guess? maybe on the earlier side

[Infinity 324]

but obviously he didn't, and even if they were S/S, nothing prevented one guy to just shoot the other right as you say? which imo could've been worth it's fair share of towncred still

doesn't it still look a bit planned if the bullet is in the first chamber and dunn just shoots scum!toog? this may not have been the best way to approach an s/s duel, but it makes more sense that scum would think that this is a good way of approaching it that that scum would risk dunn dying over town!toog

toog is my top scumread as a result of this tbh

[Infinity 324]

toog got more votes than dunn anyway, and any plan that involves saving a given scum member is gonna look pretty suspicious to the town

[Infinity 324]

btw infinity if i wrongly sheeped scum onto you here i'm sorry, i just did not have any good ideas

it's ok, it's kind of a tough game, i fucked up by letting you get voted in

[Infinity 324]

huh? he could've put the bullet in the first chamber and shot them deterministically

oh right that

but obviously he didn't, and even if they were S/S, nothing prevented one guy to just shoot the other right as you say? which imo could've been worth it's fair share of towncred still

if dunnstral was playing for towncred would have spun barrel in first place as that is basically only town play there

dunn was playing for towncred with what he did, it may not have been the best way to do it, but i don't see another explanation for his actions

[Infinity 324]

the whole split thread mechanic is wildly antitown, not a grouse, just want people to understand whatever the outcome here there shouldn't be necessarily a ton of blame assignment because the mechanics create a suboptimal decisionmaking environment

yeah these events have kinda sucked so far

I honestly feel like a complete failure rn. Infinity has had my back so many times in the past, and the one time I have the chance to do the same for her, I get completely shut down. It's horrible.

i couldn't save you from being chosen as the executioner, and also i remember having to hammer you at deadline at one point to avoid a no elim despite townreading you

good job correctly reading me; sometimes everyone disagrees with your reads and despite being right things work out really badly; it's part of being a team game

this game is very winnable even though i'm probably dying here, i believe in you to get it done

[Infinity 324]

it just sucks that the one time I'm confident that infinity is town in position to save her from an oncoming miselim, I get completely fucked by the setup + people basically tuning me out

they*

[Infinity 324]

well why so affirmative ? Like, i don't know what sane scumteam goes "yeah you got this dunnboi, this post is litterally gonna big brain all of them townies huhehuhaha"

this is assuming a level of coordination that almost no scumteam actually bothers with, i doubt dunn ran that post by his team. i don't really see the purpose of this line of discussion. i think the stuff after the event was locked in isn't much of a clue to anything

i think it's a clue that toog is scum, because otherwise dunn would probably have just shot toog

[Infinity 324]

well why so affirmative ? Like, i don't know what sane scumteam goes "yeah you got this dunnboi, this post is litterally gonna big brain all of them townies huhehuhaha"

what's the other option though? dunn didn't make that post cause he felt like it

i think dunn made that post to try to look town in case toog died

toog being scum still makes the most sense

[Infinity 324]

every smiley is cuter without the emoji

[Infinity 324]

this is assuming a level of coordination that almost no scumteam actually bothers with, i doubt dunn ran that post by his team. i don't really see the purpose of this line of discussion. i think the stuff after the event was locked in isn't much of a clue to anything

yeah but like, toog isn't forced to reply immediatly, he can go "dude wtf" in the PT

and besides, they still need to talk things through a lil' bit to agree on the distancing, but anyways idk, y'all are convinced toog is scum, i wouldn't sacrifice my life for him, so i'll see about that next event

can you clarify a bit more what you think would've gone differently with toog scum? to me, either toog scum doesn't care, or they're fine with the plan because there's not really another way to make dunn look townier

this is one of the things i feel more confident about so i want to make sure my argument is clear before i die

[Infinity 324]

well like, i think the start would be relatively similar, but when dunn makes said posts, toog would've most likely taken some time in the scum PT to try and find a way for him to shoot dunn 100%, given that like, he was pretty obvscum by then in my eyes, or at least, under waaaay more potential scrutinity than toog would be

yeah, i guess maybe toog was like "meh that sounds surface level town"

it didn't seem so obviously scummy to me, though after thinking about it for a bit it's never optimal to shoot self as town there

the other things is that they have to figure out a way to get dunn to die without it looking coordinated, which is pretty difficult

[Infinity 324]

a little bit?

can you deadsheep me after i flip

[Infinity 324]

if you are town yeah

one day you'll learn to read me correctly

[Infinity 324]

this is rlly about dunn and what you said abt him sowwy

my read progressions are always messy you know this

[Infinity 324]

infinity if you’re town who do you think is most likely to be scum voting you in our room?

saber and gypyx

[Infinity 324]

Dunn can't just shoot me with bullet 1. The bullet was chambered before any posts were made, and Dunn needs to come out of the event looking town. Shooting me with bullet one doesn't accomplish that.

no he doesn't he needs to come out of the event alive

[Infinity 324]

the fuck

[Infinity 324]

can someone on the blue team plz explain to me how infinity got nommed, and why? like who were the main pushers / who was voting her?

them*

[Infinity 324]

No, it wasn't. We had like 5 on dunn

3*

[Infinity 324]

Harley is scum

[Infinity 324]

Why is Harley scum

fake townslipping, fake reactions to being scumread

[Infinity 324]

Gamma are you really this terrible at reading me?

this is just so disproportionate/why would gamma have to be bad at reading her to misread her when she just replaced in

[Infinity 324]

Still, Gamma should be able to correctly read me, so that’s extremely concerning

2 hours into the game? this is nonsense

[Infinity 324]

I want skitter after infinity regardless of infinity's alignment I think

such garbage

[Infinity 324]

I want skitter after infinity regardless of infinity's alignment I think

such garbage

I don't want y'all in ELO with me even if you're town

the fuck did i do wrong?

[Infinity 324]

literally can't reeval unless I see y'all's flips.

you're literally about to get my flip and are already talking about how you're not going to re-evaluate

like i guess skitt could still be scum here but you're really about to learn that you spent the whole game in a garbage tunnel and are about to run headlong into another tunnel

[Infinity 324]

Toog probably town from this, I think. Two dueling scums seems unlikely.

toog + harley ship it

[Infinity 324]

If someone disagrees on my scumreads they need to explain why my townreads are wrong

do you townread harley and toog?

[Infinity 324]

If someone disagrees on my scumreads they need to explain why my townreads are wrong

do you townread harley and toog?

I townread saber but I'm open to having my mind changed there. No on toog

ok i feel like harley has come into the game being super defensive and being very performative about not knowing info about the setup, and she also gave a really surface level reason to townread toog

[Infinity 324]

So what I’ve got so far is they’re are two teams, pink and blue buy I’m trying to find the posr that explains how they got choses.

the players who voted toog went in blue chat, everyone else went in pink chat.

[Infinity 324]

gamma I've accepted my fate

maybe people will listen to you in the next phase

[Infinity 324]

<3 <3

[Infinity 324]

some people on-site that use legitimate anger/frustration to their advantage regardless of their alignment

to be 100% clear, i agree and think this is something well within ydrasse's scumrange, i just think there's a very slim chance she gets very frustrated there as scum.

[Infinity 324]

How did everyone in the pink room act when they started posting?

Did anyone answer this?

will get to this

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: start the vote

[Infinity 324]

toog/Harley/(skitt/gypyx)

[Infinity 324]

toog/

Harley

/(skitt/gypyx)

Thank you for not reading a single one of my posts.

i read every post you made

[Infinity 324]

What’s your thought on my Toog/Cakez/Dwlee solve idea?

i don't think cakez is scum and I'm coming around to dwlee town as well

[Infinity 324]

toog/

Harley

/(skitt/gypyx)

Thank you for not reading a single one of my posts.

i read every post you made

I very seriously doubt that.

If I’m wrong, then you have a lot of explaining to do because it sounds like you’re deathtunnelling me for no reason.

i don't care, i already explained why you're scum i just want to make sure my thoughts get seen before i die

[Infinity 324]

who ignored what

[Infinity 324]

If someone disagrees on my scumreads they need to explain why my townreads are wrong

do you townread harley and toog?

I townread saber but I'm open to having my mind changed there. No on toog

ok i feel like harley has come into the game being super defensive and being very performative about not knowing info about the setup, and she also gave a really surface level reason to townread toog

this is the end of the engagement, i am going to die, i do not care about this game anymore

[Infinity 324]

hi i haven't played mafia in forever

How did everyone in the pink room act when they started posting?

Did anyone answer this?

will get to this

can someone else answer this? (if you still want it gamma)

[Infinity 324]

who ignored what

Can anyone from the pink room give me a rundown of Infinity’s posts? That would be super.

i assumed you didn't really want me to give a rundown of my own posts, would be a bit biased...

[Infinity 324]

like can you stop accusing people of ignoring your posts when the posts weren't really directed at them

also i think other people who are going to have more time to evaluate you might give you more of a second chance so i wouldn't worry too much about me scumreading you if you're town

[Infinity 324]

i feel like i explained it the best i can and you might just not understand it

[Infinity 324]

i didn't know gamma had a really good scumgame actually

[Infinity 324]

I thought you'd already realized this back in last year lol

oh, i probably forgot

[Infinity 324]

it's very valid to be upset by something someone says about you in a game, but sometimes those things are also unavoidable parts of the game. lmk if i'm getting this wrong, but it seemed like 5154 was what upset you from peta at first. while i can see how that would upset you, i think that's a reasonable thing to say in a game of mafia. i think in that case, you can certainly express that you're upset about it, and you can ask peta to try to avoid saying things like that, but it would be more of a favor from him and not really his responsibility. it can be hard to know where to draw that line, especially when you're upset. maybe taking a break from the game before you respond would help.

-ella+ace

[Infinity 324]

<3 good luck, i respect you a lot for trying to work this out

-ella