That’s a question I’ll be thinking about after you flip scum. Otherwise, it just serves as a distraction.
I think it deserves its' own attention before I die. If you can't name a plausible partner for me, then you would need a strong case against me, which you appear to not be giving.
I might be individually scummy, but scum don't work independently, now do they? Scum work as a team, and that generates associative tells, which you would be able to pick up on if you're so certain that I am scum.
In post 192, DaTacoX wrote:I think that Binatog's posts are unhelpful but passive while yours are more aggressive.
It's a little unfair to say that you're worse off because your posting more, but that's the reason why I'm able to generally be more confident about it.
How am I being aggressive while also being fluffy?
When I say they’re aggressive, I mean that in the sense that you’re still pushing for people over others unlike binatog. Unless I’ve got the definition wrong, your posts still count as fluffy to me because they are either unhelpful, don’t come across as serious, or are vague.
That doesn't really answer my question, that just explains why I can't be both Aggressive and fluffy. If I'm being Aggressive, then I have to be clear and serious, but if I'm being fluffy then I would be less clear and more silly.
Okay it’s pretty clear that I’m not really getting my point across and that I didn’t have the right definition for fluff. Your opinions all come across as spur of the moment things. There hasn’t been much depth to anything you’ve said. Some of it gets chocked up to boredom while the rest look like jokes. You posts comments and questions referred to specific people, but they still aren’t helpful. Comparatively to Binatog, your posts are more aggressive. I’m not sure how to explain this much better, so I’ll leave it at that for now.
In post 192, DaTacoX wrote:I think that Binatog's posts are unhelpful but passive while yours are more aggressive.
It's a little unfair to say that you're worse off because your posting more, but that's the reason why I'm able to generally be more confident about it.
How am I being aggressive while also being fluffy?
When I say they’re aggressive, I mean that in the sense that you’re still pushing for people over others unlike binatog. Unless I’ve got the definition wrong, your posts still count as fluffy to me because they are either unhelpful, don’t come across as serious, or are vague.
That doesn't really answer my question, that just explains why I can't be both Aggressive and fluffy. If I'm being Aggressive, then I have to be clear and serious, but if I'm being fluffy then I would be less clear and more silly.
Okay it’s pretty clear that I’m not really getting my point across and that I didn’t have the right definition for fluff. Your opinions all come across as spur of the moment things. There hasn’t been much depth to anything you’ve said. Some of it gets chocked up to boredom while the rest look like jokes. You posts comments and questions referred to specific people, but they still aren’t helpful. Comparatively to Binatog, your posts are more aggressive. I’m not sure how to explain this much better, so I’ll leave it at that for now.
That seems to be a result of me posting more, and me being.. more active. Yes, I am more active than Binatog, so of course I will post more. If that comes across as Aggressive, then I don't know what to tell you other than try rioting against the less active players.
That’s a question I’ll be thinking about after you flip scum. Otherwise, it just serves as a distraction.
That's kind of an important thing to consider.
I vaguely remember being told in my last game that that wasn’t too important? At least on day 1
This could be totally wrong don’t take me too seriously please o-o
It's not the end all be all of scumhunting, but it is nice to have it in mind when pushing someone.
Even if you don't have anyone in mind its important to look at how people react to a push as potential partners.
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:42 pm
by midwaybear
Vote count 1.07
It is Day 1!
With 9 votes, it takes 5 to eliminate. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-10-23 07:35:00).
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:52 pm
by hops
I'm a bit too busy to sort out my hunch right now, but I was feeling that there is at least one SE on the scumteam. I just feel like we'd see firmer tells from a two newbscum team. I also have the suspicion that one of the newbies are waiting for a busy SE scum to approve their plans before saying anything, but since so many newbies are being quiet I'm not sure if I can narrow down the pool of suspects.
I'll have to reread the thread again before I have any firm opinion on whether or not Jake should die, because right now I feel very biased after focusing too hard on Jake and Meg. I do say that since I read catboi and Meg as town and that I believe one of the scums is an SE, that leaves a scum in Jake, Greeting, and N_M.
I might be banking too much on our theoretical newbscum having low confidence as the reason for their passivity though.
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:52 pm
by hops
Oh wait, Greeting isn't an SE.
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:54 pm
by Jake The Wolfie
You have no faith that the newbies can rock and roll, do you?
All newbscum entails is that they don't know how to play scum on this website, not that they don't have any experience at all, my dear.
That’s a question I’ll be thinking about after you flip scum. Otherwise, it just serves as a distraction.
That's kind of an important thing to consider.
It is always right to consider who might be the second scum. But one has to also consider that the two scum players might not have acted obviously connected. If they coordinate very carefully they might leave no visibal connection whatsoever. This is especially true in day one where there is not much evidence in any direction.
As it is highly unlikely to identify both scum players on day one and vote one of them out by majority, I won`t condemn someone who votes someone else out but has no obvious scum partner at hand. And if I read everyones reads correctly, there are not many townreads overall. So there are always many possible scum-partners around.
I might not agree with Greetings read on Jake and the consequences he makes out of them, I agree with him in taking one step at a time.
And as there seems to be a wagon building on Jake with me sitting in the front row, I would like to remove my RVS vote:
UNVOTE: Jake
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:27 pm
by kennyk
In post 208, hops wrote:I'm a bit too busy to sort out my hunch right now, but I was feeling that there is at least one SE on the scumteam. I just feel like we'd see firmer tells from a two newbscum team. I also have the suspicion that one of the newbies are waiting for a busy SE scum to approve their plans before saying anything, but since so many newbies are being quiet I'm not sure if I can narrow down the pool of suspects.
I'll have to reread the thread again before I have any firm opinion on whether or not Jake should die, because right now I feel very biased after focusing too hard on Jake and Meg. I do say that since I read catboi and Meg as town and that I believe one of the scums is an SE, that leaves a scum in Jake, Greeting, and N_M.
I might be banking too much on our theoretical newbscum having low confidence as the reason for their passivity though.
First of all: As I get it, the roles are distributed randomly. While there is a high chance of scum being one SE and one newbie (too lazy to do the math), it could also be two newbies or even two SEs.
Second: If you assume that the newbie partner in a SE/newbie-scumteam only posts after the SE approved his plans, that wouldn`t mean he (or she) has to post so rare. I for my part would just get the go for general plans not every post. This is especially true for day one. So the low newbie postcount doesn`t mean it has to be a newbie/SE-team (unless they agreed that the newbie should keep a very low profile).
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:57 am
by hops
@kennyk: That's true, I suppose it's not a highly plausible theory. Plus, at day 1 I guess a lot of people struggle at scumhunting without any obvious slips.
@Jake: It's more that I observe newbies tend to be less confident. Even if people have played mafia before, I don't think it's common for newbies to have been playing mafia vigorously prior to this.
Also a thing I was wondering about is the remark that a miselim is still marginally useful to town, but I think that a miselim and a nightkill will lead to an ELo situation immediately on day 2, which wouldn't be very nice. Right now there's no one I want to lim more than I want to avoid a possibility we lim the wrong person.
Jake so far isn't scumlean to me as much as they are the least townlean by process of elimination, but this would be unfair since there are many null reads too.
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:56 am
by MegAzumarill
Mafia wins if no scum are eliminated and 4 players remain
No lim + Nk = 8 players -> mislim + nk-> 6 players -> mislim + NK = loss (2 mislims)
Lim + NK = 7 players-> mislim + Nk-> 5 players -> mislim = loss (3 mislims)
No limming actually takes away one elimination we have this game
Hence why it is objectively worse than eliminating someone
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:01 am
by Not_Mafia
Day 2 is never ELo in a Newbie
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:14 am
by Greeting
In post 211, kennyk wrote:
It is always right to consider who might be the second scum. But one has to also consider that the two scum players might not have acted obviously connected. If they coordinate very carefully they might leave no visibal connection whatsoever. This is especially true in day one where there is not much evidence in any direction.
As it is highly unlikely to identify both scum players on day one and vote one of them out by majority, I won`t condemn someone who votes someone else out but has no obvious scum partner at hand. And if I read everyones reads correctly, there are not many townreads overall. So there are always many possible scum-partners around.
I might not agree with Greetings read on Jake and the consequences he makes out of them, I agree with him in taking one step at a time.
And as there seems to be a wagon building on Jake with me sitting in the front row, I would like to remove my RVS vote:
UNVOTE: Jake
Do you have a better candidate to vote out? If the answer is yes then whom and why? If the answer is no, then what would be the most ideal outcome of Day One in your opinion?
It is Day 1!
With 9 votes, it takes 5 to eliminate. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-10-23 07:35:00).
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:17 pm
by Binatog13
In post 214, MegAzumarill wrote:Mafia wins if no scum are eliminated and 4 players remain
No lim + Nk = 8 players -> mislim + nk-> 6 players -> mislim + NK = loss (2 mislims)
Lim + NK = 7 players-> mislim + Nk-> 5 players -> mislim = loss (3 mislims)
No limming actually takes away one elimination we have this game
Hence why it is objectively worse than eliminating someone
While it can we worst than eliminating someone, if a PR was elimmed then its kinda loss for the town team. But it has a low chance, its up to you guys if you want to take the risk.
In what reason tho? I am not safe either, been suspicioned by many players. Unless you're scum that tries to defend me because you know all players' alignment.
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:50 pm
by catboi
I've been struggling to maintain my focus on this game. I apologize. Nothing to do with anyone else, just not able to get my head into it right now. I think as a week has gone by and the deadline is approaching, we need to buckle down more and move toward wagoning someone. Waiting until the last minute at the deadline is a recipe for disaster. I'll quickly catch up right now.
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:06 pm
by catboi
I can't get my bearings and need to look at this with fresh eyes in the morning, but I vaguely like binatog's last post, I'm a bit of a sucker for the self-awareness and the fact that he seems unconcerned with survival here.
In post 211, kennyk wrote:
It is always right to consider who might be the second scum. But one has to also consider that the two scum players might not have acted obviously connected. If they coordinate very carefully they might leave no visibal connection whatsoever. This is especially true in day one where there is not much evidence in any direction.
As it is highly unlikely to identify both scum players on day one and vote one of them out by majority, I won`t condemn someone who votes someone else out but has no obvious scum partner at hand. And if I read everyones reads correctly, there are not many townreads overall. So there are always many possible scum-partners around.
I might not agree with Greetings read on Jake and the consequences he makes out of them, I agree with him in taking one step at a time.
And as there seems to be a wagon building on Jake with me sitting in the front row, I would like to remove my RVS vote:
UNVOTE: Jake
Do you have a better candidate to vote out? If the answer is yes then whom and why? If the answer is no, then what would be the most ideal outcome of Day One in your opinion?
No, I don't have any better candidate. The most ideal outcome of day one would of course be a scum elim (most prefered the roleblocker or the rolecop, if the setup has one of them in it). But the chances to get that result are at about 22 % (if I did the math right).
In post 214, MegAzumarill wrote:Mafia wins if no scum are eliminated and 4 players remain
No lim + Nk = 8 players -> mislim + nk-> 6 players -> mislim + NK = loss (2 mislims)
Lim + NK = 7 players-> mislim + Nk-> 5 players -> mislim = loss (3 mislims)
No limming actually takes away one elimination we have this game
Hence why it is objectively worse than eliminating someone
While it can we worst than eliminating someone, if a PR was elimmed then its kinda loss for the town team. But it has a low chance, its up to you guys if you want to take the risk.
In general the chances to elim a PR are not that low (if we stay in the setups with two PRs that is) from a VT position (2 out of 9). It is way higher for a scum player (2 out of 7) and very low for anyone with a PR on his own (1 out of 9).
But you mustn't forget the fact, that anyone who has a PR and is at E-2 or E-1 can claim said PR. Depending on if there's a counterclaim or not this tends to lead to a no elim (and most likely a NK). If there's a counterclaim, we are going to get rid of one scum player on day one or day two. So it won't be too risky to more or less randomly elim someone day one.