Open 836: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[Bingle]

Fuck, I already submitted a nightkill on you. Outplayed again.

It's OK, I'm vigging you both

Shit, first Datisi figures out I’m scum and now Baltar figures out I’m two raccoons in a trenchcoat. Today is not my day for keeping secrets.

[Bingle]

I believe that’s e-1 on Darby with < 24 hours. Last reads?

[Bingle]

VC 1.12

Gamma Emerald (5)-, Bingle, DArby, VP Baltar, dw
DArby (3)- Sleepless Assassin, PenguinPower, Fun and Games a50 dats ge
Toogeloo (2)-, SirCakez
Fun and Games (1)- Enchant
Dwlee99 (1)- Dwlee99

Not voting (1)- Toogeloo

With 13 alive it takes 7 to reach a majority.

Deadline is frozen at 24 hours until a replacement for PenguinPower is found

Mod notes: happy Thanksgiving tomorrow to those of you who celebrate it. Gamma Emerald is V/LA till the 29th. You all have done a great job writing the Fibonacci sequence with your votes.

E1. Consider this intent. If you have a claim best to have time to evaluate it.

[Bingle]

I’m getting the weird feels from this wagon, tbh. I push a solid case on gamma for like two weeks without luck and all of a sudden all of these kids and their meddlesome dog are gunning for the lim. Can I have 24h to process?

[Bingle]

Fuck. Let me put some pants on.

[Bingle]

Okay I have pants glasses and coffee, so tell me the news. I saw Gamma came in and blew the "well that sucks" tell out of the water and was vaguely wondering if SA would push that like he did the other oldschool tell whose name escapes me.

I vaguely remember both Skitter and Balto (Andante, but she's got a cartoon husky for an avvy so she can deal with it.) pushing an Ico/Gamma team read yesterday. What were the other reasons given?

[Bingle]

tho honestly I'd kill vpb even if bingle inno'd him

Not on the list I can read perfect. Also if I'm the cop I got an inno on F/G.

[Bingle]

A50 is like 400% locktown at this point, btw.

Even if you doubt my extreme monkey divination skills, he pushed Gamma all day (well, roped me into pushing Gamma all day) only to jump to scumDarby to shift the lim onto him over Gamma. If Gamma is also scum that's an amazing murderbus that he just wouldn't pull with no guarantee he lives the power gamut and if Gamma is town that's like bafflingly bad play. He dances away from the free miselim that's going to blow up in my face instead of his own? Not likely.

Dats dying over me is a weird choice, could mean I'm townreading remaining scum. That loosely points away from SA and towards baltar, but I don't know how far I'd trust that because Dats/Ico were so obviously not S/S.

[Bingle]

Gamma Emerald

Almost50

Andante

PenguinPower

Dwlee99

Not_Mafia

Toogeloo

Dunnstral

Sleepless Assassin
Fun and Games (skitter30 & PookyTheMagicalBear)
Bingle
VP Baltar
Enchant

Grabbed this cause I couldn't remember who else was playing. I remember that Enchant is town in my votes, and I don't think "I hammered scum buddy to protect other scumbuddy" is a statement that scum makes. Seems too... idek. Just seems like a really out there thing to say.

[Bingle]

the way gamma nope'd out of the game feels very much like he is scum and he is mad at baltar lol

Pretty sure I've seen Gamma get mad at a partner that way before actually? Like, one of the last Krazy games I think. It might've been FL, but someone pulled something weird and there was an insane amount of thread drama over it. I dunno, I don't really have time to crosscheck and it doesn't really matter atp I guess.

[Bingle]

that's an amazing murderbus

lmaooo I like Bingle

If some people could wait for me to wake up from my alcohol infused sleep I might have even posted Scooby Doo memes with peoples avatars or photoshopped your avatar into F/G's to make a three headed abomination.

But no, we have to play the game without Bingle.

[Bingle]

I think I've talked myself out of my bad feels irt the wagon.

PoE of Baltar/Dwlee/SA/MaybeEnchant/MaybeToog?

I think I'm pretty happy just townbinning everyone else rn.

[Bingle]

Funniest world is bingle has a guilty and then doesn't get a chance to out it

Oh, sorry, I meant I have a red check on Ico.

[Bingle]

If Gamma flips red, Enchant and SA and Toog are certainly town. We can yeet me after if necessary, but Andante should be on your list there if so. Counting on you to not fuck this game up. Pooky absolutely will left to his own devices.

I'm... Not really sure why you're aiming this at me? This just reads as a weird attempt at buddying me when you're in absolutely no danger of being the NK tonight?

[Bingle]

If the team really is D'Ico/Gamma/Baltar this game is so fucking memey it hurts.

[Bingle]

It's fair people have suspicions on me, but me trying to argue derpy spamming is bad for the thread. Someone with some sense will need to stop the SA and enchant misyeets being lined up.

Assuming you're being genuine, if I'm alive I'll put forward my best effort to think things through tomorrow. Still think your appeal to specifically me is kinda weird (skitts also is normally pretty coolheaded) but we can burn that bridge while we're crossing it.

[Bingle]

Baltar what makes you think Andante scum?

[Bingle]

Something tells me it's Fun and Games

Interesting reversal. Why?

[Bingle]

Something tells me it's Fun and Games

Interesting reversal. Why?

[Bingle]

Bingle, what's your thought on that?

I can see a few explanations:

There's scum in the town leaders.
Scum wants us to think there's scum in the town leaders.
Scum thought A50 lurking was a PR tell.
Scum thought that A50 was impossible to eliminate based on my read.
A50 dropped a PR tell I didn't notice and scum did.
Scum thinks they're fucked and was trying to shake up the game with an off the wall kill.

Those are roughly in order of how likely I think they are.

It's why I'm interested in Andante's push on hockey, actually.

[Bingle]

Bingle - what's up buddy? You are very quiet for someone who felt rushed yesterday and unable to get your thoughts out.

RL. Been busy the last few days and struggling to find time to post.

I should be able to fix that today at least to some extent, but full time Bingle energy likely won’t come until the weekend.

[Bingle]

Okay, kinda have some time to devote to this, though I'm going to be in and out of my office for a while.

Any chance someone could grab a tl;dr of what I need to respond to? I'll arbitrarily townread you for at least an hour if you do.

[Bingle]

I do have to admit 927 gives me weird vibes though. Like trying to get Friends and Games a little town cred on a Datisi town flip where Datisi would get nothing from a Friend's and Games scum flip.

in any case

if either of Datisi or F&G flips scum at one point, the other is probably town
definitely doesn't feel like scum interaction between them

What? That's a symmetric read. The only way either of them gets towncred is if the other flips scum. F+G gets nothing from a Dats townflip and Dats would get towncred from an F+G scumflip. What are you smoking?

Spoiler:

VOTE: Fun and Games

Serious vote?

311-313 felt like they were preempting their argument in a scummy way

oh actually a serious vote?

what was preempting about it? and what made it scummy?

why do you townread iconeum?

because
i think he is town

why townread me? i don't think i've done anything particularly townie so far

UNVOTE:
VOTE: dunn

Legit think there are two scum in (Dunn, Gamma, enchant, Ico)

Game is moving too fast and they can't keep with the pace. Sleeper scum in the actives.

i've got scumpings on echant and Dunn, i don't *really* agree with the other 2 names you got there

VOTE: Dunn

i'll be back after the weekend with more.

I agree with the conclusion but not the logic. I see Ico as looking to bait enchant to talk about why he's town more than casting shade there, which is a weird thing to ask a buddy when presumably they're making up the read on you. Then the response to VP seems more about "I'm not scum" than actually addressing either of Dunn/Enchant. If he'd actually been shading enchant it would be more partnery, given the Dunn vote.

Not a fan of an analysis post that gives the impression you didn't read the posts you're analyzing. Also not a big fan of "Enchant probably town from this interaction,

[Bingle]

Darby was "town-hunting" more and trying to drive home people as town, but the Enchant read never clicked. It was just constantly subtly pushed as a town read while more heavily pushing actual town reads, like A50 and Gamma, who have actually flipped town. Kind of a reverse rule of three tbqh.

Interesting take. (putting this in my ISO to ponder it later)

[Bingle]

No, i'm saying i sont think the way enchant did it is scum-indicative

What about it? Is it NAI or town indicative in your opinion.

I have to say I'm not a fan of being afk all of yesterday, especially when I was a pretty reasonable NK suspect at the time and we had a potential loss of cop clear to contend with (assuming, of course, that cop is the PR). I actually didn't bother rereading over the night because I thought it likely I'd die.

[Bingle]

That my friends is called a bear trap.

Saw this in PEdit:

Are you saying that Pooky is a drop bear? Cause I will policy eliminate him for being terrifying and also mythological if that's the case.

[Bingle]

snip

The reversal on Enchant here is interesting. I don't think it's scummy for SA, (the reason for the reversal is a pretty good one) but I don't think bussing here is out of the question. If we flip SA first and he's scum I'd say that's +scum for enchant but that the tell doesn't function the other way round.

I like the Penguin analysis that he then just drops as irrelevant. ime, most scum don't tend to give reasoning on reads and then drop it for "Eh, that other thing I said is probably more relevant anyway."

Sounds more like appeasing town who is pushing him than giving a buddy a cheap town read, especially after openly saying he figured he's dying today.

? Why would something read as more appeasy when taking a defeatist tone than not?

[Bingle]

I lost it but you also had a quote where you said you felt "In limbo" waiting for Datisis read on Iconeum. Why did you put so much stock in letting others read Iconeum?

Also when did you gain confidence in Gamma scum? You didn't seem sure when you voted and I'm having trouble following the trajectory. It feels like you went from "meh let's sort this" straight to "he's probably scum " but then you were the one who informed me his apathy in this game may be due to RL. And then in your words "actively campaigning for a gamma elimination for a literal week". It just feels all over the place.

No, I never really got a hard read on Ico. I didn't expect to. I'm bad at reading Ico.

I gained confidence of my own in reading Gamma-scum after A50 outed what the tell was, Gamma tacitly endorsed it, it fit Gamma's behavior, Gamma claimed that it didn't fit Gamma's behavior, and then Gamma backtracked and revealed that it really did fit Gamma's behavior in a roundabout way. (See, the whole blowing up at Baltar thing.)

Pointing out that Gamma does apathy/frustration as both alignments and that particular tell was NAI was more about reading you than reading Gamma. I thought it was weird that you were voting Gamma for a silly reason when there was a GOOD reason to do so, and was trying to figure out if you were bussing or not by trying to figure out to what degree you believed your own take on the wagon and whether you would hop off when questioned. I thought you had pretty significant partner equity with Gamma at EoD1.

[Bingle]

SA/Bingle team

Was this a real thing? Why?

Have you read like any of our interactions?

[Bingle]

Bingle is scum he'd see Datisi as a thorn in his side

I definitely shouldn't be townread off the back of Dats dying, but thinking this is a reason I'd kill someone is hilarious, tbh.

Hi, my name is Bingle and I actively want to be scumread as scum. And also as town. In the former case because having something to defend against means I don't have to effort about generating reads and in the latter because analyzing why I'm being scumread helps me to generate reads. I truly despise being a UTR regardless of my alignment.

[Bingle]

Claiming something which we didn't add buy off time always (well not for long considered Vig shot IC but... Wait lol)

:/

I'm not sure why "Darby should have claimed" means you're not scum. Walk me through it? If anything I'd expect literally everyone on this list to have coached a claim.

[Bingle]

Andante,
I summarized at the bottom. Could you at least take a look at that? Seems weird to townread me for stuff you haven't read and then have complete opposite opinions from mine. I'm towreading your slot as well so not being on the same page, we should probably figure out why. It makes me nervous that Toog is probably my strongest town read and VP not far off and you have them as possible scum but on this page have nothing to say on my potential Enchant/Bingle team.

Probably +town?

I definitely like that sleepless is actively looking for people to criticize his cases.

[Bingle]

If Bingle was scum, Bingle had no incentive to even talk D2

Bingle didn't pop in until after the hammer. Not sure that really says anything about alignment.

In my defense, I tried to derail the wagon. Kind of. I was just to late. Also, I talked myself back into the scumread in twilight, so I was still wrong in the end.

[Bingle]

I saw a thing that might be a scumslip and I want everyone who didn't hypoclaim yesterday to do so immediately.

[Bingle]

If you did hypoclaim yesterday please repeat yourself so I don't have to go searching.

[Bingle]

but yea I don't think that's a coherent solve at this point

I don't think me being partnered with SA was a coherent solve D1, tbh. Like, I've been poking him aggressively for info since the word go.

Also, I just realized that SA slipped back into the not linking his posts to the context and I'm not sure how to take that given the long conversation about the scum motivation behind that.

[Bingle]

No it doesn't mean his reads are right, but I've never played with you skitter. Two players who have and who I know are town said your posting style felt off to them very early on. Why should I not consider that?

Yeah, okay, that's the relevant one.

Show me where and who said this, cause iirc I'm the one who thought skitter was off D1, and I don't see how you could possibly know I'm town without having copped me.

[Bingle]

Not sure what you're saying with the second one

I was pointing out the scum motivation I see in qh-ing on D2. Not sure how I feel about the qh on D1, tbh.

[Bingle]

Gamma's scum accusations against F&G came later in the day.

And also were quite clearly rageOMGUS, not "Skitter's play is off."

VOTE: VP

Maybe I'm being greedy, but I think VP TMI'd me as town here.

[Bingle]

This was day 2... and I already explained it wasn't explicitly a you/SA solve, it was a poe with both of you in it. Are you bothering to read my posts?

Oh, I didn't mean that to be a point against you, I was just idly pointing out that I thought it was a silly partner guess even without SA's push today. Your explanation of it being a nonassociative PoE pool explained it to my satisfaction.

Not that I think you're town for having a PoE pool that's at least 3/4 town, but I can see reasons to suspect both gamma and SA, obviously.

Walk me through your townreads when you get a chance?

[Bingle]

How am I OMGUSing when they weren't voting me?

? Gamma was OMGUS'ing skitter. I'm saying that what you described (thinking skitter was off based on tone) was specific to two players and neither is GE. One flipped town. One is me.

[Bingle]

I thought you didn't believe in TMI

I think people who go looking for TMI are likely to see geese in every bush, but I do think that TMI happens. Possibly because I've seen it happen.

Gamma's scum accusations against F&G came later in the day.

And also were quite clearly rageOMGUS, not "Skitter's play is off."

VOTE: VP

Maybe I'm being greedy, but I think VP TMI'd me as town here.

Fwiw i dont think he did

~ skitter

UNVOTE:

skitter, why won't you let me have nice things.

[Bingle]

Is this the unwnd game TMI case on flea? Or am I forgetting one?

Cause the unwnd game it was pretty blatantly not.

[Bingle]

Coming back to this post. You don't think scum saw A50 as a direct threat is a viable option?

Also, when you're saying A50 was impossible to elim off your read, you're talking about the townslip thing?

No, not really. A50 was being lurktastic and didn't present a clear threat to anybody. I guess maybe the fact he saw me as town could be a threat if someone wanted to eliminate me, but that's more to do with trying to frame consensus townreads than A50 specifically townreading me.

And also no. A50 was generally towny off of play. A50 was locktown off of me being a goddamn monkey whisperer. When I said "A50 is locktown" that was a free pass to A50 until XLO at least, and I think enough people are familiar with our dynamic in this lobby to ensure that. Look at Dat's response to me locktowning him if you want proof.

[Bingle]

that's not datisi expressing suspicion of a50

thats datisi laughing at bingle townreading a50 for dumbtelling

I took that as Datisi scumreading that post and then bowing to my superior monkey reading ability, fwiw.

[Bingle]

Wait, why was Dwlee self voting?

[Bingle]

Oh, right. NM never started playing in this game.

[Bingle]

It do be looking like VP can’t argue against the core issue (bad associative with ico) and is looking to attack any weak angle of the push in order to survive.

Vp

Why do you have him as specifically panda aligned andante?

[Bingle]

VOTE: Vp

Turns out vote tags don’t work if you don’t add them

[Bingle]

I saw a thing that might be a scumslip and I want everyone who didn't hypoclaim yesterday to do so immediately.

are you going anywhere with this, btw?

~ skitter

Thought I was, outed it, and was convinced pretty quickly it was just tinfoil. So no, not really.

[Bingle]

Not really. We get better information running them up and then having them out and we don’t risk nks.

They’re basically a double ic now

[Bingle]

Why you assume we have Cop.

I'm not. If we don't have a cop, cop hypoclaims are entirely meaningless and have 0 impact on the game. Scum knows whether this is the case, but us hypoclaiming DOESN'T HURT US.

If we DO have a cop, hypoclaims mean that the cop result still gets outed if scum shoot them over the night phase. There's a slight risk in that scum might be able to find a cop that exists through process of elimination of impossible results (if one of us hypos an innocent on a scum player they're obviously not cop, for example.) but overall that risk is less than the chance that we lose the innocent result if the cop is killed over the nightphase.

Of course, before Dats/Cakez died leaving us with only one PR, scum cop hunting was less of a concern, but it's still not the biggest concern for the town.

[Bingle]

Bingle, did you actually look at the context of what Pooky was talking about or only at my responses from last night's fight before you voted me?

Not really, no. I haven't had enough spare time to dig into context on everything, tbh, and I'm mostly playing on the basis impressions to supplement what I actually have time to reread. Are you saying that what I posted as the core of skitters case not accurate?

[Bingle]

Gamma flipping town meant that EOD1 wagons were T/S and not S/S - I remembered Gamma was very close to dying near end of D1 so I'm looking for who was trying to kill him then to save Darby.


this is the penultimate VC:



Dwlee votes Gamma ~25 minutes later making it 6-3.

A50 is the one who changes momentum by flipping his vote from Gamma -> Darby making it 5-4. 1861

This is probably the single most important part of D1.

You push back on A50 with 1867 berating him for vote-flipping but not providing any reasons.

Reading all the posts in the pages since A50's vote-flip, your post is the only pushback he gets for vote flipping.

Which makes sense in the context of scum!you seeing your mis-elim starting to walk out the door.

If you're town, that seems like an understandable analysis. I know it's incorrect, but I guess I can see where you'd be suspicious. Still think you could have answered my question at the start of the day instead of ghosting me or being obtuse about it.

In response to the point you're making, I don't think it'd be a wise play for me as scum there to make a stink about A50 ditching, especially since he is semi-erratic as a player. Seems like a play that is unlikely to get him to flip back to Gamma and the safer play would have been to just shut up or join the flop to a bus in a VP!scum world.

Uh, so I went to look back and find the thing, but when I did the thing didn’t exist so I’m going to do the thing again/for the first time/not hallucinating that I did the thing this time.

This is why I’m voting you. The pushback on monkey when you didn’t have a strong reason you’d stated to prefer gamma to ico. The rest of the back and forth with you/Pooky feels like noise to distract from this and less important in comparison.

[Bingle]

Bingle can you please explain any of the words in your first paragraph? I am completely lost

I thought I had made that post already, went back to quote it, and realized I may in fact be losing my mind.

[Bingle]

I come up very blank.

I tried to derail the gamma wagon in twilight and have struggled to keep up with the game since.

[Bingle]

Rl. This week has been a little hectic and I spent half yesterday throwing up.

I just threw a jester game by putting myself at e-1 instead of hammering, if you want evidence.

[Bingle]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=88257

[Bingle]

In fairness, I actually do have the time right now. I should be tryharding here or reviewing the mini I promised to review, but I’m probably gonna drink cider and put that off some more.

[Bingle]

*VP stares directly into camera while sitting on a couch in the madhouse

Mood.

[Bingle]

UNVOTE:

I feel so utterly and completely lost right now.

Datisi, I need you to think really really strongly about who I should vote here. Send me a sign.

[Bingle]

I feel so utterly and completely lost right now.

So what's your plan for not feeling lost? like, you can't just say you're lost and do nothing

You’re not my robot supervisor.

Or… wait, who is my supervisor?

In any case, the plan is actually read today’s content for context and try to figure out who is full of shit.

[Bingle]

Live from smooth brain central! The great scumfuckery ball continues after these messages from our sponsors!

Dude, too far. This is a game, keep it at least some degree of friendly.

[Bingle]

Right, so possibilities.

VP/Dwlee Team
FG/Andante Team
S/S theater, in which case it's probably Dwlee/Andante which just kinda seems bleh
Scum waiting in the wings
Scum is in one of the four and also waiting in the wings

Can each of the four of you make a single teal deer post on the case on the opposite pair so I can try to make sense of whether anyone is intentionally misrepping/blowing things out of proportion?

[Bingle]

I assume you mean any of the first three, considering the 5 collectively cover literally every possible scumteam in the lobby.

[Bingle]

So you're scum? I was really wanting to believe you're town.

?

VP is pushing you and F/G to different degrees.
You are pushing VP and Dwlee.
Pooky/Skitts are pushing VP and Dwlee.
Dwlee is pushing You and FG.

Am I wrong about any of that? Am I wrong to want a summary of why each of those are happening before trying to parse who is right?

[Bingle]

The fact your takeaway from all that, 2 of the 5 options involve me scum?

?

Yes. The list of all possible gamestates includes possible gamestates that you are scum in. It is theoretically possible that you randed scum. I'm not saying I think any of those is the case, I'm saying I think those are all of the possible ways the thread we have can be explained before trying to figure out which one it is.

[Bingle]

How does any of that make me partners with FG or Dwlee?

My impression was that VP/Dwlee were saying you/FG was a team, which VP says is wrong.

I think

IF

there is one scum on either side of the divide, it's probably not pooky with either of Dwlee or VP and it's probably not VP with either of you or Pooky.

Maybe you and Dwlee pushing VP and pooky to fight each other might make sense, and it's a thing I want to look at based solely on the fact that you both seem to prefer the other person in the opposite pool, but I really doubt when I actually read the interactions past the skimming I've been doing that'll make any sense.

[Bingle]

If you're saying it, you clearly think it's true, unless you're trying to plant seeds for others to run with, cause if you didn't believe all of those could be true, you wouldn't call it a "possible option" I don't think you're playing for town

You realize I'm asking for groundwork before reading the thread, right?

Like, the point of this exercise is to have a basic understanding of what I'm looking for before I actually go do analysis, not to be analysis itself.

[Bingle]

Andante is obviously not scum, I am not pushing there at all

Okay. What's your two sentence summary on F/G then?

[Bingle]

Scum is in one of the four and also waiting in the wings

So VP thinks this. Which of the 4 do you think is scum?

[Bingle]

Andante-> Y/N you think VP/Dwlee is a viable scumteam, and prior to this suspicion of me that was your guess?

If so, can I get a two sentence summary on both?

[Bingle]

Of the waiting in the wings crowd? Probably dwlee or enchant, but I think dwlee has actually looked decent in their exchanges today.

I also have a hard time seeing any of the actives being non-associated with enchant, so that also ups his likelihood ever so slightly.

There's an outside possibility you're coasting scum here, but I'm reserving judgment because you say you're going to catch up now and maybe actually help here.

Was directed at you, actually, but the 4 was You/Andante/Pookydra/Dwlee. It was meant as the four people I see as getting the most attention.

[Bingle]

Fun and Games was all "A50 has to be town" the only one who really saw the momentum flip, I see no reason scum would leave skitter and pooky alive here either, those 2 are strong players individually, and now they are 1. Fun and Games is 10000% flipping scum

cuz we're 1 day from mylo and she's better than me at it

I'd like to hear your thoughts. You were a primary pusher on Gamma from D1. I want to know what the reevaluation is.

Honestly, my poe is fairly similar: i still think bingle is town, i feel decent abt sa and enchant, and possibly you

Gun-to-head dwlee is town, and i still have a hard time seeing toog scum with ico

So i'm looking at everyone else

~ skitter

Gamma Emerald
Almost50
Sleepless Assassin
Bingle


Was where I was at yesterday. And then gamma and a50 flipped town. So either the team is SA/Bingle or I'm very very wrong here. And I also saw people had Bingle pretty high up so I should review that at minimum

What was your theory coming into the day, VP? I see the other three, just not you.

[Bingle]

Takes:

VP is very actively poking people for takes, but doesn't have a lot of his own.

Pooky/Skitter Baltar weird interactions seem to start around here:

what's the point of asking me about having basically the same reaction to the same post that you did

you're basically criticizing my 2007 when your 1996 has the exact same sentiment for the same reasons based on the same post ...

~ skitter

but the whole SA/Toog jump in happened right after.

Andante seems to consistently SR anyone who even implies that she's possibly scum. Need to meta check this.

[Bingle]

Damn, I wish skitts/SA were here to answer questions, that would make this way easier.

[Bingle]

So many words that fill up my entire screen, is it all associatives still?

I like that Dw is clearly not reading shit here and as soon as SA posts his tl;dr he starts with analysis. Makes me think the lack of analysis wasn't about trying to avoid content and was more a genuine desire to not have to read the wallposts.

[Bingle]

because there have been too many people talking much less than me.

Who do you specifically think fits this paradigm? I'd agree I do specifically today, but I don't think "Skitter/Pooky haven't posted enough" is a rational take and a lot of your pushing for content seems aimed there.

[Bingle]

Fuck. I'm at the SA analysis without links again. I'm not dealing with this today. Skipping to the end, but I do need to go back and reread the context around all of the quotes SA uses.

For fuck's sake this is policy worthy.

[Bingle]

If the scum team isn't VP and Dwlee, I have no freaking clue who it is, maybe dunn/toog can get tossed in there? idk, I've been skimming some, Sleepless has so many words, I'm sure they're good words, but essays lose me, I prefer the tldr for stuff not "here's an essay on this"

Here's a tldr on at least the associatives. Did you get a chance to look it over?

Enchant - Implicated by both ISOs. Iconeum threw shade, never followed up, then listed Enchant as null. Darby had a strong but never explained town read and awkward phrasing on it later on.

Bingle - they both had Bingle in the town pile without doing a good job of explaining why. Darby even bumped Bingle up from a weird inclusion in a null list to town and didn't say why.

Dwelee - I know there isn't a ton here because Not_Mafia didn't give us much and Dwelee came near the end of Darbys game but this fits with both reads lists.

VP - So there's a lot and some of it can be taken either way but I lean towards VP not being scum with this slot

Fun and Games - A little bit of the same as VP but the town stuff seems stronger than VP's. I think both were frustrated they couldn't convince Fun and Games they were town.

Andante - I'm convinced Iconeum genuinely forgot about Penguin in his reads list which makes them an unlikely partner. Darbys associatives don't look much stronger here.

Toog - Darby was pretty clearly trying to shift us to Dunn Day 1. I don't read it as bussing in any way.

[Bingle]

So you'd be ok ignoring the dwlee vp stuff, and would just vote SA for no links?

No, I'm bitching about it because I explained to SA on D1 why it's super fucking antitown at best and he agreed to not do it any more.

I'm not actually advocating a policy elimination, just pissing into the wind.

[Bingle]

I am poking people for their views because there have been too many people talking much less than me.

Okay, but comparitively I don't see you poking Toog/Enchant/Dwlee for takes and those slots are pretty much perfectly described by "talking much less than you".

Pooky SA and I all had pretty decent chunks of content and I think it's weird that you'd focus on trying to draw attention to people who had been active but slacked off over people who weren't posting at all. Do you have a reason for that?

[Bingle]

skitter is afk fri/saturday for religious reasons

I am not going to continue shitfighting with vp/dwlee because their strategy is to spam the thread full of garbage shitposts and hope town is too tired of it to actually read the argument

i have already made my case for vp baltar being scum and anyone interested in it can read it.

I know. SA is also V/LA. It's just frustrating on a personal level that I'm finally able to give this the attention it deserves while Skitter isn't here to talk.

I'm not blaming her for that.

[Bingle]

I say this cause if you actually looks at SA's posts, they are all giant paragraphs/walls. minimal interactions. ok, so what people aren't around what you are, you can still quote stuff, ask a question, quote something and give some thoughts, giant essays with no links was exactly how I initially played as scum, along with the minimal interactions, nothing about SA feels towny to me, no matter how hard I search

Interesting take. And another thing that makes me think I have to go back and fact check SA's recent takes. But no, it was a continuation of this:

Also please include links to the post you're quoting at the very least if you're going to insist on handtyping the quote tags instead of using the board function. I had to go back and make sure you weren't responding to VP saying almost the same things as me and someone paying a little bit less attention might not have realized you'd responded to them at all.

If I'm going to fake S/S interactions, I don't do it by making a bunch of extra busywork that I despise doing. I think me/SA being S/S is a pretty :lolnope: take.

[Bingle]

On like and actual reads level, I think SA is scum, Bingle here recently doesn't have good posts though. I'm not a fan of the "here's 5 situations" then "I don't actually believe in all 5" feels way too weird to be town, also how he's trying to set up this SA lim feels weird. "I'm not trying to set up a lim on SA" right.. just going "I'd policy SA for this" to start getting me to push SA right now, and completely ignore all this.

I get the feeling you're not reading me for content with shit like this, tbh.

I don't know how you can think anyone would have a list of

There are 2 scum in {Pooky/Andante}
There are 2 scum in {VP/Dwlee}
There is 1 scum in {Pooky/Andante} and one scum in {VP/Dwlee}
There is 0 scum in {Pooky/Andante/VP/Dwlee}.
There is 1 scum in {Pooky/Andante/VP/Dwlee}.

and think that's a genuine push on any of those cases.

Also, thinking I am trying to get SA limmed as my buddy with "God it's super fucking annoying that SA doesn't link to any posts when he wallquotes" is a pretty wtf take.

[Bingle]

Bingle, Vote VP please

No. Fuck you. You had low effort sheep Bingle and everyone complained. You get to live with tryhard Bingle now.

[Bingle]

ok whatever... play the game on your own, I'm not saying shit to anyone but pooky/skitter this game

Look, I was probably too aggressive there, but I have been completely checked out and everybody and their mother badgered me about how my RL was making me less active. I finally get the energy and desire to wade through this shit and you're now telling me to stop wading through the shit and just to sheep you.

[Bingle]

I don't believe Pooky is bored really. He likes to play the game. Look at him going buck wild yesterday with Andante trying to spam me into the dirt. He was having fun.

Pooky is a bombastic player who is smart enough to know that following a miselim you had a hand in, that type of play isn't likely to go over well. So skitter will handle it raises my hackles.

Also, pooky is bored, but ready to drop a response the moment I vote you? okee dokee.

How familiar are you with pooky as both alignments?

[Bingle]

When pooky is engaged, pooky is active. He's a lot like me in that his alignment is only vaguely related to his activity, and likely is more of a scumtell than a towntell when such a thing applies. Pooky not being around isn't really a cause for concern, except for that he's obviously not around to influence things if he is town.

I'm not quite through the back and forth, but I'm taking a break. It does seem to me that VP is far more culpable in keeping this fight going than pooky is. Just getting to the chainsawing bits, but F+G seems completely reasonable up to this point.

[Bingle]

Rl. This week has been a little hectic and I spent half yesterday throwing up.

i hope you're feeling better!

~ skitter

I am, thanks. It was likely a result of eating bad curry.

[Bingle]

VOTE: dwlee

I feel p good abt town-enchant tbh

Toog if u can even give a tldr about what you found scimmy there, i would appreciate it

~ skitter

Skirts did you ever come back to this?

[Bingle]

idk what do mean by come back to?

~ skitter

I think toog responded and it got lost in the you/vp stuff. Was wondering if you had any more thoughts.

[Bingle]

dwlee's posting from today is p bad

~ skitter

It looks pretty flaily but I’m not sure how much of that is NAI frustration about Andante not engaging. Is there something that looks exceptionally bad?

[Bingle]

Ico meanwhile kept slandering Enchant, and calling a few of their things scummy off the cuff, but rarely ever pushed and generally ignored Enchant, while keeping Enchant in a Null pile.

I mean tbf this is functionally the logic i was using to scumread gamma yesterday and he was town

~ skitter

I don’t understand why this translates to enchant town. Like, if the logic is sound enough for a gamma read why isn’t it sound enough for an enchant read?

[Bingle]

dont' think their reasons for scumreading pooky are in good faith

~ skitter

Oh. I haven’t read that bit yet. I was hoping you were seeing the thing with andante I was seeing.

[Bingle]

it doesn't, i was saying that using that logic for calling enchant scum was bad because we tried that yesterday on someone else and they flipped town, so obviously that logic is somewhat faulty

~ skitter

This seems like a weird inversion of the fallacy fallacy to me, but I think that’s probably town points for you.

[Bingle]

Look at just Dwlee’s side for me? He’s tring andante there but it kinda feels like he’s assuming andante scum a good portion of the time

[Bingle]

Andante is clowning

Andante if you're town what are you doing this game

this conversation is a waste of time

you r scum goodbye

hahahah that's how I felt talking to dwlee and VP, I just wanna flip dwlee and move on tbh

This totally indicates you reconsidering and not blind jumping into limming people

When all of the things andante does help scum but they're blatantly town weeooweeoo my brain is a circus

Posts like these. It feels like he’s genuinely scumreading Andante and then remembering “Oh shit I don’t want to lim andante.” And he jumped at me for even being adjacent to considering Andante scum.

I don’t see why he does this as T/S and it doesn’t look like T/T

[Bingle]

Look at just Dwlee’s side for me? He’s tring andante there but it kinda feels like he’s assuming andante scum a good portion of the time

i'm not sure i see this tbh, they're townreading andante p hard, i don't really see them assuming scum-andante anywhere
in fact it looks to me like if dwlee is scum they're trying to buddy andante because they're gonna need her vote to lim either us or someone not vp/dwlee

~ skitter

They. Shit, sorry Dwlee.

[Bingle]

trying to buddy andante because they're gonna need her vote to lim either us or someone not vp/dwlee

That looks very much like not buddying. Like, if dw is trying to earn cred with andante saying she’s clowning is a really strange way to about it. Also like 60% of the thread hasn’t even weighed in on the back and forth, so I think saying andante is necessary for a mislim in you is a bit of a reach.

[Bingle]

it doesn't, i was saying that using that logic for calling enchant scum was bad because we tried that yesterday on someone else and they flipped town, so obviously that logic is somewhat faulty

~ skitter

This seems like a weird inversion of the fallacy fallacy to me, but I think that’s probably town points for you.

To try to explain this it feels like saying

“Gamma had a .45 and the bullet fired was from a .45”
“Nah can’t be, gamma was at the bar all night. Enchant has a .45 though”
“Nah can’t be, Gamma was at the bar all night”

[Bingle]

i kinda doubt that you are

I don’t think anyone else in this lobby would have realized you two are off the table for me at that point , given my D1 paranoia

[Bingle]

Andante is blatantly not reading anything I've written and maybe the other ones could be read like I'm scumreading Andante but 2769 is like explicitly saying Andante is blatantly town so idk what you're getting at here

No, I get that. The frustration part makes sense. The hard townread while simultaneously pseudo casing in a way that doesn’t look like you’re trying to manipulate andante at all is the fucking bizarre part.

[Bingle]

And THEN pooky jumps down my throat in reaction. Ignores 2639, ignores all of my posts suggesting it could be a bus, and only when I vote Enchant it's how I'm openwolfing and scum and blablabla chainsawing for enchant super hard

rofl

i said vp baltar and dwlee were scum BEFORE you two ever voted for enchant so this is a pretty funny chainsaw defense accusation.

Yea but you ignored me saying you could be bussing until I voted enchant and then you started attacking me directly instead of through VP

Is the premise a fun and Games and enchant team?

[Bingle]

Bingle yelling at me

Game aside, I’m sorry I told you to fuck off. As I said, that level of aggression was uncalled for.

[Bingle]

SA is afk until Monday, but I could stand to hear from toog and enchant.

[Bingle]

What'd the vote count even at?

I don’t think anyone has been voting for a while.

[Bingle]

I'm saying that if I'm scum, me killing a50 and revealing his alignment to the town would be a suboptimal play if I was scum. It would invite blowback and criticism against me, when there were many other kills presumably that would not.

Do you think anyone doubted A50 town post D1?

[Bingle]

Dwlee has two votes, one of which IS hammer boy.

[Bingle]

Question for yall cause you read the game, was Dwlee pushing F&G as scum? is that what started the pages of whatnot?

Kinda and no.

Dwlee started the day with only me/SA in PoE and hard reset. Their reads have been all over the place since.

[Bingle]

Dwlee has two votes, one of which IS hammer boy.

I thought VP made it 3.. is F&G already voting Dwlee?

No they’re on VP I think.

[Bingle]

VOTE: vpbaltar

This is nonsense and seems like you're trying to construct a narrative

Pedit ya i agree

~ skitter

Yeah last F$G vote. I think everyone has been vote shy after yesterday.

[Bingle]

VC 3.2

VP Baltar (2)- Fun and Games, Andante
Enchant (2)- Toogeloo, VP Baltar
Dwlee99 (1)- Enchant
Fun and Games (1)- Dwlee99

Not voting (2)- Sleepless Assassin, Bingle

With 8 alive it takes 5 to reach a majority.

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-12-14 17:00:00)

Mod notes: still haven't cleaned the kitchen lol. this game is just my to-do list at this point

This is accurate up to VPs vote. Dw is no where near E1

[Bingle]

Just got out of work. This is a lot of pages. Can someone give me a cliff notes so I can still be active before I read?

Uhhhh. Whiplash.

[Bingle]

Like, big sections of the thread are useless noise and it seems like everyone throws everything out the window every ten pages. There’re a lot of weird interactions, and most of them aren’t summarizable. Neither toog nor enchant has posted anything meaningful since you left.

[Bingle]

also, I will not be voting enchant today, After reading Darby/Icon, I think there's enough there that says Enchant isn't a partner

This is all you said about enchant, andante.

[Bingle]

VOTE: Enchant

This is scum. I did an iso dive of ico and darby on Night 1 (and Night 2, thanks guys!). Based on the combined associatives from both slots, I am like 90% confident Enchant is scum here.

Why did scum-enchant hammer both darby and gamma?

~ skitter

VOTE: dwlee

I feel p good abt town-enchant tbh

Toog if u can even give a tldr about what you found scimmy there, i would appreciate it

~ skitter

VOTE: Enchant

This is scum. I did an iso dive of ico and darby on Night 1 (and Night 2, thanks guys!). Based on the combined associatives from both slots, I am like 90% confident Enchant is scum here.

Why did scum-enchant hammer both darby and gamma?

~ skitter

You suggesting scum don't hammer partners or miselims?

No, i'm saying i sont think the way enchant did it is scum-indicative, and i think this post is somewhat straw-manning-y

~ skitter

Ico meanwhile kept slandering Enchant, and calling a few of their things scummy off the cuff, but rarely ever pushed and generally ignored Enchant, while keeping Enchant in a Null pile.

I mean tbf this is functionally the logic i was using to scumread gamma yesterday and he was town

~ skitter

it doesn't, i was saying that using that logic for calling enchant scum was bad because we tried that yesterday on someone else and they flipped town, so obviously that logic is somewhat faulty

~ skitter

This seems like a weird inversion of the fallacy fallacy to me, but I think that’s probably town points for you.

To try to explain this it feels like saying

“Gamma had a .45 and the bullet fired was from a .45”
“Nah can’t be, gamma was at the bar all night. Enchant has a .45 though”
“Nah can’t be, Gamma was at the bar all night”

ah ig i see what you're saying
idk it made sense to me at the time

~ skitter

This is the only explained town enchant argument I’m aware of.

[Bingle]

I didn't see Pooky and Skitter as a buddy to that slot. We agree on VP though so there's that at least...

Skitter town is andantes only consistent read.

[Bingle]

SA could you read page 116 and give impressions

[Bingle]

I'm maf.

I would put Innocent Child, Jailkeeper and Tracker. More optimal i think.

scumslip confirmed

vOte echant

I almost doubt first post of the game like this is to your partner, means Enchant likely town

Oh. I guess this, too. This is a post you made before saying the associations were bad for me and then good for me two posts later.

[Bingle]

Just gonna go ahead and post this so we can skip 10 more pages of you two saying it back and forth.

Basically: Pooky is scum for their push on Baltar, but it could be a bus, so i think it's Pooky/Baltar or Pooky/enchant here

i said you're scum cuz you voted for enchant while saying you thought fg was bussing vp and that makes no sense lol

[Bingle]

Bingle - can I get an updated reads list from you now that you are somewhat caught up?

In a little bit, sure.

If you want a team analysis, I'm gonna need a lot of yarn though.

[Bingle]

Bingle - can I get an updated reads list from you now that you are somewhat caught up?

In a little bit, sure.

If you want a team analysis, I'm gonna need a lot of yarn though.

I'll take a list of everyone and your read/short why. Something similar to my own post is totally fine.

Yeah, gotcha. I’m gonna wait until I’m not mobile because I don’t like formatting reads lists mobile, but I should be able to get it out in the next hour at most.

[Bingle]

If they flip town, I look worse, you push me tomorrow. If they flip scum, you can push your tinfoil tomorrow.

i mean if they flip town do u accept being the mylo flip tom?

~ skitter

I thought you were talking to ducky for a minute there and got real confused.

My gamestate read, at the moment, is that we’re in a 1 in 1 out scum in {VP/DW/Andante/FG} scenario. There was just too much resistance for too long to looking outside of it for me to think that there are two scum in there actively, unless the team is specifically Andante/Dwlee and their goal was to flip FG and VP sequentially. There are a couple little troubling things that won’t let me take that entirely off of the table, but given Andantes play overall and how everything seems to be shaking, I don’t put much credence into it.

[Bingle]

Fun and Games - Town. I've been telegraphing this read for a while now, but I don't think anyone left in the lobby is familiar enough with how I play to get it. Skitter is pretty clearly trying to figure things out and solve, and all of her main pushes have been reactionary to what she perceives as bad pushes against her, particularly from VP/Dwlee, which tells me that despite having the spare towncred to burn and the ability to push through basically any elim she wanted (there's no way skitter didn't pick up my willingness to throw my weight behind whatever she felt strongly on) with minimal blowback she doesn't have a clear direction she wants the thread to move in. Skitter scum knows her path to victory, and she's not dedicating herself to it. The strongest argument I've seen for this slot as scum is literally: "They're playing antagonistically" to which I have an absolute 4 word meta defense, just to piss of Dwlee.

This is a parachute.

Andante - Playing super erratically, but not in a way that looks like she's trying to force through any particular mis elim or avoid any particular partner with the exceptions of skitter/Dwlee. I don't think Skitter/Andante plays the tunnel on VP for so long when there's absent targets that are much easier, and the Dwlee tinfoil deserves to be talked about separately. Even still, I think this is probably just a townslot and I have no interest in pushing it through today.

Sleepless Assassin - Probably town? This townread presumes that the analysis made by SA is good faith and contextually accurate, which is a large portion of my frustration with the lack of links (yes, I see that you've started using them again. Thanks!) Until/unless I find that he's actively misleading the thread, though, the depth of analysis suggests a level of engagement and desire to understand motivations that just doesn't seem viable for scum to fake long term. He's had some significant down time between posting, but all of it seems organic and none of the timing for popins has struck me as odd/opportunistic. It really just does look like he only has a limited amount of time to devote to the game and when he's here the level of content is exemplary.

Toogeloo - Null. It's been a while since I've played with Toog, and I don't think I've ever played with scumToog (insert running gag about it being impossible for toog to roll scum) but I don't have any major pings here. Toog/Dunn didn't have anything D1 I saw as particularly clearing, but Toog/Dunn were also just not here D1. Similarly, I'm not convinced that Toog/Dunn were towncleared by Ico/Darby pushing there, because one lurkscum pushing another lurkscum to try to stay afloat seems entirely reasonable to me. Neither is a particularly large loss to the team. Neither is particularly likely to convince a ton of people to sheep them. And if either of them generates towncred by doing so, well bully for them.

Dwlee99 - Every once in a while, Dwlee has something that just feels town. Their frustration over Pooky, the freakout about how erratic Andante was, the frankly ridiculous "Pooky is pissing me off" tell. All of these have had grains of Dwlee town in them. But mostly, he's just not here as much as I expect he would be as town. I don't know that this is a fair read, but I think town Dwlee would be more invested in solving the game.

Enchant - Honestly though, that hammer. The sum total of Enchant's play from my perspective is beetlejuicing, ATE, and pushing any ship in a storm any time their name comes up.

VP Baltar - It breaks my heart to do this, but I think VP is just hard scum here, and it's for the reasons skitter brought up, not the ones Pooky did. The interaction with A50 jumping off of the wagon just screams scum motivation in hindsight, and the fact that he wasn't actively driving the Gamma wagon while doing it just makes it even worse. His sentiments not long before don't seem to indicate a strong preference for a gamma elim, but A50 switching to Darby was just unacceptable.

Let's yeet Gamma now so we can keep D1 under 100 pages.

Combined with this, VP has pretty consistently been hiding from this salient point with the not-inaccurate but largely irrelevant fight with Pooky. Yes, pooky has been abrasive and stirring the shit up, but also this is pooky we're talking about. Anyone who has been in a room adjacent to a room pooky is in knows he loves to stir shit.

[Bingle]

If you're gonna keep calling me maf, I'm just gonna vote you lol

So. Andante Dwlee.

Andante has reevaluated ad nauseam all day and has had solves involving every slot, to the best of my knowledge. However, the only times she's pushed Dwlee seem to match up to when I start considering them as possibly aligned, and even then she drops the read pretty quickly. From a gamestate standpoint, fighting a proxy war with your scumbuddy through two townies is a pretty healthy position to be in as scum this close to MYLO, (for proof of concept, check out the Mini theme from Team mafia this year where shea/FL did basically exactly that FL hiding behind Pine(my team) and Ramcius and Shea hiding behind TSQ.)

But, if we're going here, we're limming Dwlee, not Andante.

Andante could be scum with Dwlee. Dwlee could be scum period.

The latter is always the right choice, just like Shea was always the right choice over Norwee.

[Bingle]

why not vp/dwlee?

Why doesn't VP/Dwlee look outside of the 4 of you for so long?

[Bingle]

It's also why I asked Bingle to give reads just to confirm if he was going to express original thought, which he did not do.

If you're gonna keep calling me maf, I'm just gonna vote you lol

So. Andante Dwlee.

Andante has reevaluated ad nauseam all day and has had solves involving every slot, to the best of my knowledge. However, the only times she's pushed Dwlee seem to match up to when I start considering them as possibly aligned, and even then she drops the read pretty quickly. From a gamestate standpoint, fighting a proxy war with your scumbuddy through two townies is a pretty healthy position to be in as scum this close to MYLO, (for proof of concept, check out the Mini theme from Team mafia this year where shea/FL did basically exactly that FL hiding behind Pine(my team) and Ramcius and Shea hiding behind TSQ.)

But, if we're going here, we're limming Dwlee, not Andante.

Andante could be scum with Dwlee. Dwlee could be scum period.

The latter is always the right choice, just like Shea was always the right choice over Norwee.

Uh... What?

[Bingle]

As far as bingle, I think he hasn't provided much if any original analysis since D1. I think the Datisi and A50 kills both make sense from a Bingle scum perspective as well, especially when he cleared a50 with a town tell. Killing him gives Bingle town cred by proxy. He then proceeded to sheep you.

:thorface:

I didn't provide much original analysis while I wasn't in the thread. True.

Why do the Dats/A50 kills point to me over literally anyone, when they were the two people most likely to support me and "They were obvtown." is a much more likely explanation?

[Bingle]

I'm pretty okay with voting any of enchant/VP/Dwlee. Your pick, skitter.

[Bingle]

Andante just isn't scum here dude how many times do I need to repeat this

I agree that Andante isn't scum unless you're also scum, so... You repeating that is a waste of time.

[Bingle]

Why do you need skitter to tell you who to vote?

I dunno, why would I take into account the opinions of my townreads?

[Bingle]

Dats was probably a legit short term threat, and a50's flip gives you town cred, as I stated.

actually i change my mind bingle is really fucking scummy

i'm not gonna vote him because uh he's not viable today but if i die totally take a look at him ok thanks

i am currently conflicted between voting gamma and voting darby

the cliffnotes on gamma that bingle posted sound very fun and sheepable, and the wagon on gamma seems much better participants-wise than the one on darby

however darby is my pet scumread and ico had some very icky progressions and he felt so dead

i'm gonna go step away and brush my teeth and see if i have an idea what to do

bingle is town

therefore a50 is also town

fuck i'm good at this game

Yup, looks like someone who is an immediate threat to me.

And when has it ever been a good idea to kill someone who is staunchly supporting you in the hopes that someone else will start staunchly supporting you?

That's a nonsense argument.

[Bingle]

I'm just thinking it makes sense that a VP/Dwlee team would try to ride Toogeloo's vote to an Enchant Elim

I don't really see them doing that until like... just now.

They seemed pretty set on fighting you, which is a pretty bonkers plan if they're both scum.

[Bingle]

Lol how do any of those posts make it look like dats town read you? Assuming scum you, you knew the case on Gamma was wrong. The last post was clearly sarcasm.

Pedit - in reply to bingle

Did you read literally any of the context?

[Bingle]

I don't know what 4 refers to.

The 4 people I see as the center of discussion/activity today: you VP Dwlee Andante

[Bingle]

Lol how do any of those posts make it look like dats town read you? Assuming scum you, you knew the case on Gamma was wrong. The last post was clearly sarcasm.

Pedit - in reply to bingle

Did you read literally any of the context?

bingle is town

therefore a50 is also town

fuck i'm good at this game

Heya all new peeps

- i like andante so far
- toog's meh, wanna hear more abt why he dislikes us
- slight townpings on dwlee but not a strong read yet
- i feel really, really, really good about bingle town now (and thus a50 town)
- i'm not really sure what to do with gamma's self-vote or if its ai, we might go back to gamma

Now sure how around i'll be rhis weekend

~ skitter

UNVOTE:
VOTE: gamma

how come this vote switch happens now?

I'm full of whimsy

this is a very funny response but how am i supposed to copy your reads now

I was sort of wanting to see what people's reactions would be if I changed it up with no explanation. Gamma's giving up/not really giving up makes me feel like it was a good choice.

Bingle is also my strongest townread at this point + we do get probably the most info about player interactions from a Gamma flip. Lots of plusses to just following through with this path at this point.

bingle is town

therefore a50 is also town

fuck i'm good at this game

Well, guess I’m dead then.

the a50 read officially cemented it for me

~ skitter

actually i change my mind bingle is really fucking scummy

i'm not gonna vote him because uh he's not viable today but if i die totally take a look at him ok thanks

If you're trying to claim that Datisi actually scumread me at the end of D1, you're gonna need to dose the entire thread with psychotropic drugs.

[Bingle]

me trying to read/make any sense of this thread right now... I'm at a huge level of uncertainty with my thoughts, doubting my reading ability, I know I will usually have the right reads at 1 point, but then end on wrong reads, aghhh it literally feels like I'm drunk, as I try to thing about what makes sense, and I'm not even drunk right now!!! ughhh I'm trying... I wanna be helpful.. everyone going "vote me" "I'm maf" and selfvoting.. like, none of that helps

The bit I'm interested in is why VP is pushing me specifically to vote him instead of looking to confirm if I'm willing to bus my supposed partner.

[Bingle]

I'm telling bingle to put his vote where his mouth is if he thinks I'm scum, not that I have a death wish. Asking skitter for approval is shirking responsibility for his vote.

I have given the three names I'm willing to vote. I'm not shirking responsibility for shit. I'm asking which of those three names the people I trust have the most confidence in.

But if it'll make you happy:

VOTE: VP

[Bingle]

does anyone in this game know why Dwlee scumreads FG?

Just gonna go ahead and post this so we can skip 10 more pages of you two saying it back and forth.

Basically: Pooky is scum for their push on Baltar, but it could be a bus, so i think it's Pooky/Baltar or Pooky/enchant here

i said you're scum cuz you voted for enchant while saying you thought fg was bussing vp and that makes no sense lol

[Bingle]

I see this word so many times, yall kept using it, wtf is chainsaw?

First of all, chainsaw defense isn't actually being used completely correctly in this game as a term.

It is specifically when one scum attacks another player for pushing their buddy while specifically avoiding calling the player being pushed town.

It's old. Like Tarhalindur tells old, and I don't think I've ever seen it used to catch an experienced scum player. It's the kind of thing you see rarely in a newbie.

Pooky here was using it as a more generalized "Scum is pushing someone for pushing someone else" which is very much a boring argument and not truly what the chainsaw defense is.

[Bingle]

I was more talking about the Dwlee bit where you said Dwlee was chainsawing for VP regardless of whether VP was scum, but again I don't have a lot of faith in Chainsaw Defense as a tell.

I think skitter's reasoning is a much stronger case and relying on the chainsaw defense argument has allowed that argument to fall into the backseat.

Kinda like what A50/I thought Gamma was doing to VP on D1, where he was focusing on a minor detail to ignore the bigger point. (Which, admittedly, was wrong in that case, but that doesn't mean that it's not a scumtell.)

[Bingle]

me trying to read/make any sense of this thread right now... I'm at a huge level of uncertainty with my thoughts, doubting my reading ability, I know I will usually have the right reads at 1 point, but then end on wrong reads, aghhh it literally feels like I'm drunk, as I try to thing about what makes sense, and I'm not even drunk right now!!! ughhh I'm trying... I wanna be helpful.. everyone going "vote me" "I'm maf" and selfvoting.. like, none of that helps

The bit I'm interested in is why VP is pushing me specifically to vote him instead of looking to confirm if I'm willing to bus my supposed partner.

@Vp

[Bingle]

No, its not, and its some sort of fallacy to suggest it is

It's analogous.

The fallacy you're thinking of (probably) is personal incredulity, which is, roughly: "I don't understand why that would happen, therefore it cannot happen."

But that doesn't mean the argument of "I think it is less likely for that to happen because I don't see a clear motive behind it" is itself fallacious.

Regardless, the town motivations I am aware of for self voting and claiming scum are as follows:

1. Jokes.
2. Frustration.
3. ATE.

The scum motivations I am aware of for self voting and claiming scum are as follows:

1. Jokes.
2. Frustration.
3. ATE.

In specifically the case of a self hammer, scum has the additional motive of potentially cutting off discussion.

[Bingle]

I feel reasonably confident that enchant is a misflip,

Why?

Like, I understand but don't agree with your argument earlier, but you seem more confident. Is there a further reason or is it just the thing we discussed earlier?

[Bingle]

I am willing to vote for Enchant on the condition that if he flips green the rest of the town kill Vp Baltar and Dwlee as next 2 elims.

If he flips red idgaf what happens

I’m cool with this, as if there was any doubt.

[Bingle]

I find it slightly weird you have not switched votes at this point when I'm trying to compromise with you. You playing me here?

skitter said she'd wouldn't switch until she saw a VC, earlier this page. Nice shade though.

I apologize for my lack of presence, I ran out of WIM again. I should be around tonight, hopefully.

[Bingle]

I want a vc first

(i am lazy >.>) but i'm willing to switch off of u onto them

~ skitter

I want a vc first (i am lazy >.>) but i'm willing to switch off of u onto them

~ skitter

I find it slightly weird you have not switched votes at this point

when I'm trying to compromise with you. You playing me here?

What would you call this if not shade?

[Bingle]

VC 3.3

Enchant (1)- Sleepless Assassin
VP Baltar (2)- Fun and Games, Bingle,
Dwlee99 (3)- Enchant

Andante VP Baltar

Fun and Games (1)- Dwlee99

No Elim (1)-

Toogeloo

Not voting (1)-

With 8 alive it takes 5 to reach a majority.

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-12-14 17:00:00)

Mod notes: if anyone knows any good piano Christmas albums please hit me up. I'm a huge fan of George Winston and Scott D. Davis but looking to branch out a bit

votes that have changed bolded.

[Bingle]

VC 3.3

Enchant (1)- Sleepless Assassin
VP Baltar (2)- Fun and Games, Bingle,
Dwlee99 (3)- Enchant

Andante VP Baltar

Fun and Games (1)- Dwlee99

No Elim (1)-

Toogeloo

Not voting (1)-

With 8 alive it takes 5 to reach a majority.

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-12-14 17:00:00)

Mod notes: if anyone knows any good piano Christmas albums please hit me up. I'm a huge fan of George Winston and Scott D. Davis but looking to branch out a bit

votes that have changed bolded.

[Bingle]

It literally took me 60 seconds on my phone to scroll from the last vote count to here. It is one thing to say that hours ago. It's another to simply not just do it yourself hours later, especially when they were loudly complaining earlier that I wouldn't vote dwlee.

So as I stated, it's not shade to ask you to do something you say you want.

Why haven't you selfed because Enchant flipped town? That's a thing you promised, right? That you'd eat the lim if enchant flipped town here?

Oh, maybe it's because there's the whole "After this thing happens I will do X" only matters if the thing happens. And also:

Lol

1) even without a VC, I think it is unlikely dwlee is anywhere near a yeet. Like, whoelse is voting them besides me and andante?

Seems like a pretty strange sentiment in a game that has had 2 consecutive days of lolhammers.

I'm more and more happy with my PoE.

[Bingle]

Enchant....is still alive?

That's exactly my point.

I will do thing A when thing B.

YOU HAVEN'T DONE THING A!

Doesn't really make any sense given thing B hasn't happened.

[Bingle]

Fun and Games - Town. I've been telegraphing this read for a while now, but I don't think anyone left in the lobby is familiar enough with how I play to get it. Skitter is pretty clearly trying to figure things out and solve, and all of her main pushes have been reactionary to what she perceives as bad pushes against her, particularly from VP/Dwlee, which tells me that despite having the spare towncred to burn and the ability to push through basically any elim she wanted (there's no way skitter didn't pick up my willingness to throw my weight behind whatever she felt strongly on) with minimal blowback she doesn't have a clear direction she wants the thread to move in. Skitter scum knows her path to victory, and she's not dedicating herself to it. The strongest argument I've seen for this slot as scum is literally: "They're playing antagonistically" to which I have an absolute 4 word meta defense, just to piss of Dwlee.

[Bingle]

Honestly, my motivation for this game is like... nonexistent.

I'm being pushed consistently on the basis that I haven't been actively solving constantly, especially during the periods of time when I was borderline V/LA. I have 0 shits to give about the game, and that's showing through. It's fascinating that that's a thing to hold against me, specifically, when you know, Toog and Enchant exist.

This game is giving me painful flashbacks to the game where mastina deathtunneled me for being too town to be town and momrangal tunneled me for being too inactive to be town simultaneously. It's been fucking hellish to play, and the fact that I've put as much effort as I have into it is a fucking miracle.

VOTE: Dwlee

Let's just flip something so that I can be done with this.

[Bingle]

Also Bingle was hella sus for the A50 kill but I doubt anyone else would have figured that one out

Iirc Dwlee picked A50 and I was leaning f+g, actually. I’m way better at handling monkey than skitter.


Sorry for the replace, I’ve been in a place where I shouldn’t play mafia for a while and it just kinda came to a head here. I’m dipping back into the retired as a player category, at least for a while.

I can’t say I enjoyed the game, but I hope everyone else did. And a big thanks to SS for modding.

[Bingle]

<3

Thanks for the concern and the kind thoughts!

I'll still be around doing my Jingle stuff. I was gonna run S_S's PYP variant but schadd beat me to it (and you all should definitely consider it, it's a pretty interesting setup). I'm sure I'll come up with something weird to throw up here soon though.