open 841: concgratulations to the winners and losers

[innocentvillager]

like one thing i can kind of articulate

every single thing midwaybear has stated here is like, an opinion, a narration of his own mindset

not once has he like, tried to question anyone or interact with anyone or solve people, granted he's not had that many posts but it feels survivalistic

in chromatic ascension, it felt he was more engaged in that and asked people questions and opened to others for input, etc

makes me feel like he's more interested in surviving this game and faking a trajectory rather than actually playing the game here

i guess that's part of what makes me think he's null and lifeless this game too

[innocentvillager]

he's being reactive rather than proactive

and he's been proactive in like every town game ive seen him in so far including chromatic ascension

i think he's good enough at scum at this point to fake trajectories but im kind of missing the engagement here

and i think this is something that actually i can catch early on because in a game with a fun plist like this i don't see why you wouldn't be trying to interact

idk im sort of getting a little excited that ive noticed this lol imagine me being totally wrong.

[innocentvillager]

Oh yeah by the way +townpoints for Marigold.

Why? If it’s based off the rejection, I think it’s more of play style than actual alignment.

An easy lie to make as scum, yes, but one they think to make, perhaps a tad less likely.

I think we should actually be careful of this. I think the lack of meta gives mafia a lot of freedom to manipulate. I can see what you're saying though about scum having a slightly less chance of thinking to make a post from that perspective. But a mafia in the previous dance game was initially townread for similar reasons. Looking at Azure's other posts, I can't really make a read. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

I think the comfort level and carefree nature of Azure is very townie.

You're probably right

@Azure
I think that Rainbow Knight should maybe just pair up with a personal townread. If she is paired with the towniest warm, then won't it just be an efficient Night 2 kill for the scumteam? I guess I'm wondering what your thought process behind it is. I'm not super sure myself.

Darn

Lavender asked for reasons against it

Wdym by this?

[innocentvillager]

i just quoted like the first like 5/first 8 posts or somethign of his iso in that game

like, tell me this isn't way more engaged than what he's started out this game

he's actively outsourcing for opinions and questioning stuff

like the very first post he made this game is similar to the very first post he made that game but that's like it

[innocentvillager]

holy shit is this town!iv?

lmao yea i finally rolled town datisi i did it

[innocentvillager]

this is the most confident ive been in a scumread in a while and i don't like ever get scumreads

i honestly don't even know what would convince me im wrong here even if i totally am and being big dumb

[innocentvillager]

id like to hear catboi's opinion on this more than anyone else atm rn because if im wrong i think he'd be the one to best be on the other side and slap me back to reality

[innocentvillager]

but yeah pls check my work (@anyone who cares) and see if u agree with me

[innocentvillager]

ehh

okay my confidence disappeared in this case i think it's too little data im no longer like that confident i think i just got excited

but i still think it's a scumtell and happy with my vote.

[innocentvillager]

false , u voted him before I posted why

[innocentvillager]

i'm voting him bc iv

present a case

that looks good enough on the surface

VOTE: midwaybear

skimmed chromatic ascension. this isn't the same thing.

VOTE: midway

why not

nope, i voted him after you said why you were voting him

i didn't even read the quotes you posted

1429 is my "case"?

[innocentvillager]

hey flow!! who is maf?

Smh Anda, you already know who it is

Current POE is like:

Andante 3 times

Midway, SS, Pooky, Mare, Cat, Skitter; Maybe Sleepless



I really like IV's progression on this page, though willing to sheep it as it is a good case and we need some more excitement VOTE: midwaybear

did u take a look at midway's iso? it's not very long

[innocentvillager]

id like to hear catboi's opinion on this more than anyone else atm rn because if im wrong i think he'd be the one to best be on the other side and slap me back to reality

I get what you're saying, I'm just not totally convinced the difference makes him scum this game, if that makes sense

okay do u still think he's town though? so u agree now that this isn't actually similar to chromatic ascension?

[innocentvillager]

- its not even the volume so much as what he is choosing to comment on is sort of weird; he feels very much on the sidelines and his comments are just kinda there but he isnt really interacting with people much or following up on things. Its not exactly iioa but like kinda similar and i'm bucketing in the same *type* of analysis as iioa. I think its easier for scum to interact with the thread this way

i feel like you're just saying what i said did u have this thought before me/read what i wrote?

[innocentvillager]

idk i just get this gut feeling that this is the slot to kill today

probably fueled by confbias and hindsight bias while reading that game but he does not really feel the same to me

like one thing i can kind of articulate

every single thing midwaybear has stated here is like, an opinion, a narration of his own mindset

not once has he like, tried to question anyone or interact with anyone or solve people, granted he's not had that many posts but it feels survivalistic

in chromatic ascension, it felt he was more engaged in that and asked people questions and opened to others for input, etc

makes me feel like he's more interested in surviving this game and faking a trajectory rather than actually playing the game here

i guess that's part of what makes me think he's null and lifeless this game too

he's being reactive rather than proactive

and he's been proactive in like every town game ive seen him in so far including chromatic ascension

i think he's good enough at scum at this point to fake trajectories but im kind of missing the engagement here

and i think this is something that actually i can catch early on because in a game with a fun plist like this i don't see why you wouldn't be trying to interact

idk im sort of getting a little excited that ive noticed this lol imagine me being totally wrong.

holy shit is this town!iv?

yeah quotes after this point are whatever fine you didn't read that

but you did read this part though? and this feels like the actual case, not the one liner that I posted

but you voted before i posted these 3 posts

im a little confused at why ur doubling down on 1429 being a case

[innocentvillager]

But I wonder why this play makes you think I am interested in surviving? I don't think lurking is a viable option to survive as scum here, but maybe you meant something else. I agree more with skitter's 1449 that my play is easier and more indicative of what scum would do.

i think skitter and i are saying the same thing

im not referring to ur lurking as much as just the pure absence of interaction/any sort of read outsourcing in what you did decide to post

which makes me think you're not trying to work with people/interact, just narrating some of your own thoughts, which is something i explicitly don't associate with your towngame

if you agree you've been very reactive this game can you tell us why?

[innocentvillager]

like when im scum sometimes i just go into "okay shit i haven't posted in a while, need to fake some thoughts/wifomy stances that'll confuse people, make it look like im thinking about this"

rather than actually trying to figure out what's going on in people's heads ig

let's call it narration mode over scumhunting mode

and that's something i do feel is a natural instinct for scum!me to do that i have been trying to actively fight off in a way when i am scum. but im not sure you've been called out on it like this yet so i have no evidence to believe you'd have that same instinct

[innocentvillager]

datisi if you're scum fake doubling down on this case semantics when you actually meant something else i will go into hall of shame if i buy this

it just looks so weird lmao can u see why im sort of harping on this

[innocentvillager]

and that's something i do feel is a natural instinct for scum!me to do that i have been trying to actively fight off in a way when i am scum. but im not sure you've been called out on it like this yet so i have no evidence to believe you'd have that same instinct

this was not clear i think, i used "instinct" in two different ways so let me just rephrase

It is a natural instinct for scum!me to go into narration mode. But I was called out on it once as scum.
Since then I've noticed that was a disparity between some of my scum and town postings at the time. I ended up developing another paranoid instinct later that makes sure I am not just narrating my own thoughts but also trying to interact with people. But I have no evidence to believe you'd have this second instinct so I think it's possible I'm catching you for exhibiting the first narration one.

[innocentvillager]

i'm voting him bc iv present a case

well ok the thought process is: i think you might because

if we all agree 1429 isn't "the case"

then your statement above is obviously wrong because of the timeline and might be construed as intentional lying

like the reason for me to think this is scummy is that you're bullshitting the actual reason for voting midway but i called you out on the timeline because you only voted before I posted the case

[innocentvillager]

so as scum you go:

oh shoot, i slipped

If I don't lie about this, then I have to admit that I didn't actually vote midway because of innocentvillager's case

Oh wait, I can still construe 1429 as "a case" even if it's a short one

But that'll look sketchy

But that's better than the alternative where I get called out for lying/faking reasons

[innocentvillager]

i know you're going to tell me im being insane regardless of your alignment

so i kind of want other people to weigh in and see if im just being way too nitpicky or if this is actually a little sketch

i mean i sort of buy that you thought 1429 was a case tho bc it's kind of a creative backtrack if u actually did scumslip so lol

[innocentvillager]

maybe u and mwb are both scum lol :3

[innocentvillager]

i mean that is still the occam's razor reasoning for why you and mwb both feel different from your towngames while other familiars like Faker, skitter, Cakez do feel more similar (SS and Pooky im also familiar with but i have no idea how to read either of them)

but again like i said before i don't exactly worship Occam's razor im willing to consider subtleties and nuances

[innocentvillager]

yea u are good at scum lol although even the best scumplayers make mistakes

like Alisae is p good at scum too but e slipped and did a really bad backtrack in DEFCON that i called her out for

not saying it's what ur doing but it's still a possibility in my mind

like i think it's possible as scum you had this fake town reason in your mind but you got it mixing up timing-wise: maybe you thought my actual case was reasonable but then forgot you voted before it happened. and u can do that as town too but you're saying you didn't so that part is irrelevant

anyway your timeline of events seems kind of okay ish aside from the fact that i still find it weird that u think 1429 is a case.

[innocentvillager]

-Something_Smart: Feel like he's generally a bit more performative as scum based off of my limited experience, also understands scum need to be active in current meta. Sure, townish.

for how much we don't align i actually had a similar thought lol

but idk i don't feel like i weigh it as much as you do partly bc it's too easy for scum!SS to use that as a lazy excuse in a familiar plist

[innocentvillager]

Or another way to describe midway's posting: it lacks *life* or *animated thought* its just dry and blah

im glad we are seeing the same thing

[innocentvillager]

I'm pretty confident in Innocentvillager and Flow Trap being scum

incorrect

[innocentvillager]

i reskimmed cakez's iso and don't rly remember why i thought he was towny

i think it was the bold calling of people scumfuckers having an aggressive tone

but it feels like he's mostly just been memeing since, which feels a little in contrast to how his iso reads like he's found the scum already

Cakez if u still have those same 4 people as scum (midway, pooky, mare, SS) why don't i really see you pushing them more? like how confident are you on those ppl

[innocentvillager]

@Datisi why was cakez very town for u?

[innocentvillager]

nsg is my spiritual mother

[innocentvillager]

i agree with the logic that SS as scum would be trying more to look towny and it matches my memory of playing against (and losing against) him as scum, but at the same time it feels bad to actually put someone down as town based on that reasoning. so i guess i can just continue putting the problem of reading him off

why is he listed as a tr for you then?

i predict that i will probably scumread sleepless assassin after he makes his big post

why do you feel that way?

midway still seems scummy but i'm unsatisfied voting there with such a large null pool to sort.

do you normally not vote for people until you have a read on almost everyone? i don't understand why you wouldn't at least park your vote on your current largest suspect

[innocentvillager]

sometimes you can tell that these kinds of players are scum because, when being pushed for elimination, they don't fight as hard as they typically do as town – i first learned about this tell when nachomamma used it in a bombshell case on myself actually, because i was getting pushed but didn't really seem to have a lot of heart in fighting it.

you're insinuating that you're one of these players who is very town as town and will fight back against shade more often as town - how do you feel about basically everyone having you in their PoE here?

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Cakez

Not thrilled with that explanation from flow, and think that flow trap has had reads (on IV?) that I thought were arbitrarily strong/working backwards, but right now I'd rather go here. The minute I got the ingratiating feeling from Cakez he nosedived in my mind.

are there specific quotes where you feel like he's trying to pocket/please people?

[innocentvillager]

and like if you think the people who aren't

doing anything

are scummy and you think the game state is stagnant, it's kind of easy to actually cast a vote that will matter instead of vanity voting SA who isn't really even here?

it just feels like you're going through the motions rather than actually doing something that will move the game state forward.

anyways do you want to vote MWB together? you think he is mafia anyway right?

why do you need to vote him together with skitter why not just vote him yourself?

[innocentvillager]

oops did i force you to expose your plan before she got a chance to take the bait..? am i reading this interaction right

[innocentvillager]

i don't think it is true that i "care more" as scum but i think it does appear that i care more as scum simply because i am chatting in the pt often and helping the team make plans (iv knows about this one ) but also i do try harder to maintain a thread presence. like in town games i am like "ok if i'm not getting reads rn, i'll step away and try again" and as scum i DON'T do that because i am well aware i am never going to "get reads" as scum because i already know everyone's alignments and so i never have a reason to "step off" from the game so (and no i don't try to fake stepping off from the game bc my posting schedule is so inconsistent anyway there's no way to know) -- but also as scum i am extremely paranoid and scared that i will be found out (seriously read some of my notes pts when i am scum they are a hot mess) so i kinda try harder to maintain thread presence and appear to be driving the game forward because i KNOW i can't reach the level of read purity that i have as town so i try to make it up by sheer presence and volume of posts and also being really loud and sometimes doing bullshit that makes you think "surely haha surely scum wouldn't do that"

lmao this literally aligns exactly what i think of ur meta i guess that's a good thing but ur also so self aware of it so yah idk how to feel about that

[innocentvillager]

and sometimes doing bullshit that makes you think "surely haha surely scum wouldn't do that"

this is lowkey my favorite scum tactic because it's easier than genuine effort

i will regret saying this in a future scumgame

[innocentvillager]

i actually cared a lot about that post tho LOL idk if that's me putting too much on meta like i think ur being truthful about that regardless of your alignment here

[innocentvillager]

i actually cared a lot about that post tho LOL idk if that's me putting too much on meta like i think ur being truthful about that regardless of your alignment here

yeah because i was totally about to spew lies about my meta while in a playerlist where half the game knows my meta LOL

lol so you were considering lying about your meta and decided against it

[innocentvillager]

Datisi can you provide an example of a towngame where you said something similar to your self meta wall? and like, were scumread by the game for not being towny enough and you had to explain why?

[innocentvillager]

Yes my fiendishly clever tiger trap is ruined now

lol u always make me laugh

Why did you decide to give the point of ur trap so easily then to me

i guess you couldve ignored it or given a more cryptic answer? was the test not really important to you

[innocentvillager]

hny from central us time

[innocentvillager]

Thinking about sleepless, I think he is townie for intentionally "beetlejuicing". I'm not even sure why that is considering scummy traditionally. I feel like scum would not immediately attack a vote on them.

i had this exact thought too lol

[innocentvillager]

lol ok pooky what r ur thoughts on Datisi based on all that this game

[innocentvillager]

there's also this post from the recently finished anyhing upick where pooky was grilling me for not being obvtown to his standards:

But why are you convinced on Datisi!scum? How is he different here than from Yin and Yang? Obviously not including micro since he was bleeding obvtown in that game.

he's nothing like yin and yang rofl

he was so obvtown in yin/yang you could see it from space

and now that i look back on these examples, i notice just how often pooky's mind goes "datisi not being obvtown? datisi scum???" and he recently also fucked up my record of not getting misyeeted as town which is lowkey making me wonder why he hasn't been paranoid about me this game at all LMAO

you two are totally scum together and picked 1 together

[innocentvillager]

and to make sure we completely shoot ourselves in the foot, we then also picked multitasking, yeah you got it iv

ik i am genus

[innocentvillager]

to confirm mafia pick multitasking/informed BEFORE schadd posted draft yes? so they didn't know they were getting good/bad placements at that point

[innocentvillager]

do you normally not vote for people until you have a read on almost everyone? i don't understand why you wouldn't at least park your vote on your current largest suspect

I mean, if I did that, I'm changing my vote at least once every page, usually after I see a VC I go "oh hey, I tr that person now!!" then change, but mehh I either never move it, or I move it too much, I feel like you're trying to push a weird thing "you're not voting? you must be scum..."

it's not a weird thing to ask someone why they're not voting their sole top scumread to get insight into their play and her response made sense

[innocentvillager]

like if i had randed scum with pooky and he was like "i am picking 1 fuck you" i probably would've just let him and picked something else instead because i don't actually care to argue with him about it

im 99.9% joking

my dumbslip question was an unrelated question i had as i was entertaining the possibility as a joke

ill take ur response as, yes, mafia do have to choose informed/multitasking before draft

[innocentvillager]

lol ok pooky what r ur thoughts on Datisi based on all that this game

It's p unlikely he is scum with skitter because she doesn't really do that level of scum theater with a teammate imo.

I scumread him in the micro blitz because when I reaction tested him with a vote at 7p2m, he basically didn't seem to care much and just dismissed me as town rather than begin to shitfight me. I wasn't really even paranoid of him, I just wanted to push him to get him to towntell but then he just was completely flat.

sure gotcha but i mean him in a vacuum this game how do u read him (not wrt skit)

do you think he's towntelling here

if not, why aren't you trying to push him to towntell if you feel he's similarly flat

[innocentvillager]

do you normally not vote for people until you have a read on almost everyone? i don't understand why you wouldn't at least park your vote on your current largest suspect

I mean, if I did that, I'm changing my vote at least once every page, usually after I see a VC I go "oh hey, I tr that person now!!" then change, but mehh I either never move it, or I move it too much, I feel like you're trying to push a weird thing "you're not voting? you must be scum..."

it's not a weird thing to ask someone why they're not voting their sole top scumread to get insight into their play and her response made sense

I mean, voting someone isn't the only way to get insight.. talking to them/interacting with them also works...

lol clear concise phrasing is not my strong suit

im saying "it's not a weird thing to ask someone why they're not voting their sole top scumread" because I'm trying to get insight into nsg's head/play

not that I wanted her to vote to get insight into mwb's play

and she's not like you who's around constantly and changing opinions constantly; she's been more sporadic in appearance. But tbf if you posted a readslist like that i would've asked you the same thing and if you responded like you did above i would've been fine with that too.

[innocentvillager]

Datisi. I can confirm that that post is in fact a drunken mess.

true but probably a town one tbh

hm?

it was kinda ~honest~ especially since you wrote it while drunk, feels a little too elaborate and *real* for scum-drunk-you to come up with

I mean the self meta is probably all true but why is it town?

[innocentvillager]

like the entire post could be true except for the fact that he’s actually just not obvtown this game because he’s, well, scum

but like everything else is true (since there are games where he’s town but not obvtown so gets scumread by ppl)

[innocentvillager]

why wouldn’t he have written it as scum? It feels like a perfect explanation for why he’s underwhelming this game that’s easy to write while drunk because the self meta part is true

[innocentvillager]

I need to stop lying to myself and pretending that I'm going to reread the past pages and make meaningful commentary.

so start from here then if that's not going to happen ...

we're starting to get into radio buzz territory again ...

what did he do in radio buzz that was similar to here? lurk/low effort?

[innocentvillager]

i feel like when you say you always scumread me it confuses people into thinking you actually think I’m scum

can u find a different phrasing looool

[innocentvillager]

hmm

I mean I just feel like I had a self meta argument that convincing (look I was town in all these games where people scumread me for not being obvtown - that’s why you shouldn’t kill me for not being obvtown) I would be eager to bullshit that too and could do it drunk

[innocentvillager]

ur being kind of adamantly defensive about this when I’m more just trying to have a discussion and that feels a little weird to me

[innocentvillager]

i don’t feel like I implied anywhere that I was grilling to see if it’s a real thought? more trying to compare notes

And I feel like you’re treating this interaction as a interrogation when that was not my intention (sorry if it came off that way I guess?)

[innocentvillager]

ok sounds good lol I’ll come back to this reread I’m prolly just reading into things weirdly

[innocentvillager]

i don’t know if self meta bad is as universal of a thing as you think and I don’t know why she has to believe that too

[innocentvillager]

Datisi why do I change my mind on you every time I talk to you

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Faker

1777-1780 might be one of the scummiest progressions I’ve ever seen

[innocentvillager]

Spoiler: When skitter doesn't spend an hour on New Year's Day tracking through my disparate phone posts on Cakez

reported for animal cruelty

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: skitter

[innocentvillager]

there is a lot of like shade throwing at shade throwing at shade and I’m not really sure how to parse everything

[innocentvillager]

probably means someone is scum throwing shade at someone at some point but I don’t know where

[innocentvillager]

tiger wanna vote midwaybear together with me?

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: midwaybear

i still really don't want to kill the best town player on d1 (yes that is a real thought i have as town too) but ya idk what my tiger read is anymore

[innocentvillager]

Like this is the only new post not about me:

VOTE: midwaybear

i still really don't want to kill the best town player on d1 (yes that is a real thought i have as town too) but ya idk what my tiger read is anymore

And I think there's a wagon on midway so it does feel bandwagony but I don't know what Innocentvillager has been saying about midway all along so it's hard to call him out when it's possible he's been wanting this anyway.

Well I basically started the recent midway wagon just briefly hopped off to vote other slots

[innocentvillager]

i reskimmed cakez's iso and don't rly remember why i thought he was towny

i think it was the bold calling of people scumfuckers having an aggressive tone

but it feels like he's mostly just been memeing since, which feels a little in contrast to how his iso reads like he's found the scum already

Cakez if u still have those same 4 people as scum (midway, pooky, mare, SS) why don't i really see you pushing them more? like how confident are you on those ppl

People always ask me this and it's so annoying
What are you expecting me to do here? I never write cases, I've already called out people as scumfucks, I'm voting my top SR. What do you want from me here?

i don’t rly scumread you

Okay for example i remember how hard you pushed me in mini 2180 and doesn’t feel like ur pushing anyone here even close to like that. You did have quite a few posts just slamming me over content that game

[innocentvillager]

idk like if u have a lot of cinvinction on someone being scum I would go and push them but maybe that’s just me

i also don’t have convinxtiin on ppl scum very often

[innocentvillager]

i reskimmed cakez's iso and don't rly remember why i thought he was towny

i think it was the bold calling of people scumfuckers having an aggressive tone

but it feels like he's mostly just been memeing since, which feels a little in contrast to how his iso reads like he's found the scum already

Cakez if u still have those same 4 people as scum (midway, pooky, mare, SS) why don't i really see you pushing them more? like how confident are you on those ppl

People always ask me this and it's so annoying
What are you expecting me to do here? I never write cases, I've already called out people as scumfucks, I'm voting my top SR. What do you want from me here?

didn’t you write a massive case on scum!AGar a while back and everyone immediately sheeed you? I know it was like 1-2 years ago but “never write cases” doesn’t seem quite accurare

[innocentvillager]

fuck we don’t have time

i will try to put some more serious time into this in the next couple days but no promises

[innocentvillager]

we really need to get some wagon going soon
What is general proper claiming protocol in this game?

[innocentvillager]

lol I told you guys mare was town

[innocentvillager]

Ive basically never seen scum claim impulsively like that before for no reason so im fine with mare being strong town

[innocentvillager]

im still fine with my mwb vote and i don't want to touch mare at all

wouldn't be upset at a pooky vote bc it's just hard to read him in general but he seems okay ish tbh

[innocentvillager]

i also forgot why i thought catboi was okay latest posts have been really meh but i think he's having game motivation issues lately which is unfortunate for reading him too

pedit: yeah, it's kind of where today was headed and there's been some loose opposition but no other real wagon developed except like maybe Sleepless. im not sure how that makes me feel but i don't think it's enough to make me unvote

[innocentvillager]

lol townbinning datisi for now

{mare, andante}
{datisi}
{SS, SirCakez, Faker}
{Sleepless, catboi, skitter, Pooky, nsg, flow}
{midwaybear}

[innocentvillager]

loltownbin not lol townbin

[innocentvillager]

Ive basically never seen scum claim impulsively like that before for no reason so im fine with mare being strong town

This is not great logic

y not?

[innocentvillager]

skit what is going on with your mare read

[innocentvillager]

Ive basically never seen scum claim impulsively like that before for no reason so im fine with mare being strong town

This is not great logic

y not?

Because scum would do that I don't think it's AI at all

sure it's possible, seems like a difference of experience ive just never really seen it

if you want to convince me otherwise u could show me some examples where you think this happened but idk if it's worth ur effort

[innocentvillager]

idk just like almost every scumteam ive been on did not do anything rash without approval of the team in PT and i can't see why they would agree to let mare just claim for literally no reason (other than for the wifom that maybe maybe she gets townread for it but i don't think scumteams do this enough)

[innocentvillager]

Mare doesn't take neighborizer as scum with her draft position

oh yeah this is a good point

i mean porlly she shouldn't as town either tbh but it's more likely to come from town than scum given that she did it so i agree

[innocentvillager]

mwb has like picked it up like a tiny bit and interacted a little bit more but just like

he kinda looked at my push and went "meh ok ill try harder"

and he did like a little bit

idk what all of this means for his alignment, and i don't know that him continuing behavior he's already been accused of is scum!indicative at all

really at the end of the day im just left weakly scumreading him for all the stuff he did before i pushed him

[innocentvillager]

what is the utility of neighborizer honestly? it doesn't confirm anything about alignment at all

it just seems like kind of a useless role i don't understand why anyone would want it

[innocentvillager]

oh hi ydrasse

lmao my read on mare just shot down a bit from like locktown to like probtown but she's still town

[innocentvillager]

skimmed sleepless and flow isos

conflicted on both slots

[innocentvillager]

flow seems a little too relaxed honestly. i think he's an easy LHF push with the memeing to content ratio and i don't think he's doing that to get cred because it doesn't really look that good. i believe both nsg and flow when they say flow is more jokey and relaxed as town. it seems he's been struggling for content this game which is in a vacuum scum indicative for a player on hiatus, but he also feels an internal pressure to contribute as evidence by his one brutally honest quote.

[innocentvillager]

i reread the early towncase on me and it's mostly bizarre because i think he literally misinterpreted like half the quotes meaning-wise he townread me for, but i can kind of see why as town he'd tl me for that if he thinks relaxedness/jokeyness is a town!indicative for himself which he has said.

[innocentvillager]

skitter can you talk more about your midway read and why you're so unwilling to vote there despite you having mild suspicion there? you also said something about the wagon?

quoting past stuff you've said is fine too

[innocentvillager]

like sure it's totally possible flow is just trying to emulate his town meta without much further thought to it and calling me town early for being jokey and memey alludes to the fact that he is trying to tie himself to me and get similarly townread. there's something off about him while i was reading his iso idk i know that sounds like scummy but like the timing/things he chose to comment on felt obvious or like he misinterpreted them. i don't really know what im saying but there was a weird vibe i got sometimes reading the iso. it felt like someone trying to keep up with the game and meme and joke around and force contribution but not really that comfortable. which does sound scummy, idk. idk there were still parts im not really vibing on this push. im not sure what im saying and ill probably just stop

[innocentvillager]

tiger wanna vote midwaybear together with me?

fool me twice...

VOTE: midwaybear

i still really don't want to kill the best town player on d1 (yes that is a real thought i have as town too) but ya idk what my tiger read is anymore

bruh

im not really sure why you had either of these reactions

VOTE: SS
I'm unvoting skitter because I think she would push me as scum here since I'm a high number. I will look at flow too, but I townread him earlier.

what's the point of this vote with no time to deadline, clearly not much support for this wagon, and you're not even going to try and push him?

[innocentvillager]

on sleepless

the first time i read the wall a while i thought it was p null; which is like usually how the walls are i guess. the second time i read it i felt like the thoughts seemed like they were coming from some sort of actual headspace and seemed ok. it seemed like a wallpost that was actually a display of his thoughts rather than a comprehensive view of the gamestate which i think feels like a towny trait. like it looks good but it doesn't feel like the intent was to make the wall look good which is mildly +town.

past his infamous wall im just getting more vibes that he's just trying to get out thoughts. yes it could be scum struggling for content and there's zero agenda and that he's just going posture posture posture. but that's actually not at all what it feels like, it feels like he's taking stances in some areas and just giving out thoughts in others. overall my picture of SA is that there's no agenda here (+town but definitely not locktown), prioritizing getting clear and concise thoughts out, and it seems that his headspace is all coming from a plausible area. that's enough for me to not really want to vote the slot for d1 although i could maybe be convinced otherwise.

also @sleepless if you think town!me isn't this memey/relaxed go skim my opening in Team Mafia 2021 Large Normal Wikipedia Integers and see if you thinking that feels memey and nervous like yu think i am here. i feel like it's similar but it's not really awkward-nervous energy - in both cases i was excited. i was excited for this game because i wanted to fucking play the game after 5 days waiting for thread to open while scum got to actually collaborate during this time. i was excited that game too for a similar reason - there was a lot of hype surrounding the event and picking teams and lot of waiting around with our role PMs and shit.

[innocentvillager]

i was excited that game too for a similar reason - there was a lot of hype surrounding the event and picking teams and lot of waiting around with our role PMs and shit.

hmm actually that was the second iteration of the event so lol nvm then. i think i was also just really excited to play town on a reroll which had never happened before and we were all just hyperposting real time right at thread open which was fun.

[innocentvillager]

im also just a little bothered by midway's lack of urgency about both his wagon status and looming deadline. im not trying to project myself into my read of someone else but i definitely feel that is a scumtell for me.

around the 3 main wagons id prefer midway > flow > sleepless. ig my readslist looks something like

{andante}
{mare}
{datisi, faker}
{cakez, SS, sleepless}
{skitter, nsg, pooky, flow, catboi}
{midway}

[innocentvillager]

wow i thought sleepless was but noooooooo it's midway who's the ultimate beetlejuicer

[innocentvillager]

midway you know we have 1.5 days to deadline and we are far from a real wagon and we have to get that person to claim, etc

pedit: wait is it that thing u replied to me earlier right? where u said people are just going to vote you or sleepless at EOD? why are you just naked voting SS without any push at this stage

[innocentvillager]

ur EOD approach isn't making any sense to me from a town perspective

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: sleepless

okay so we're coming in hot. as it turns out my prediction on sleepless's post was both wrong and right in a roundabout way. let me just start talking – the post was sort of a lot of nothing i feel. i don't think there was really a ton of towny analysis or anything there. it didn't read

tonally

as super forced but i do think that content-wise it could resemble someone forcing themselves to just have a lot to talk about to look good, which would also fit sleepless' behavior of sort of talking up the post beforehand rather than just doing it. for me personally (and also from what i've seen other people do this as well), when i'm working on getting through some giant catch-up, i still might refresh around the most recent page and at least try some engagement there. to be clear, sleepless

does

do this, but i feel that it's again more mostly insubstantial stuff when he does it: 1518 is basically bare reads and nothing else which isn't itself terrible, but 1527, 1548, and his interaction with skitter starting at 1593 are all just sort of nothing at all. in this case, i take absence of evidence (that is, the absence of an attempt to engage meaningfully with the thread on its most recent page) as a small amount of evidence of absence of the

desire

to do so.

of course, i feel for sleepless in seemingly being busy and having to catch up with the thread frequently, but even still. also, even though i think this behavior on its own is somewhat of a decent enough reason to vote someone, this matches what i recall of and the brief amount i reviewed of my last experience with sleepless as scum, where i explicitly called out the fact that he made a large catch-up post which seemed forced (granted, this was a while ago). whether or not that experience is unduly influencing my opinion here remains to be seen i suppose.

anyways, speaking of engaging with the thread currently while trying to catch up, i still have a decent amount of pages to catch up on, so it's possible that my vote changes from here, but i doubt it. i see that flow is being wagoned and i think i would prefer sleepless over him so yeah.

nsg idk im not really vibing with this ig? i feel like this basically boils down to you not liking that he wrote a big wall that was devoid of obvtown content

which is like maybe like super mildly scum!indicative

then there's the other aside about how you quoted some things that were not super substantial, which for me makes me go, okay? like half the plist me and flow included have a higher noise to content ratio than sleepless so im not really sure how this makes him scum

also i talk about sleepless on the bottom on the previous page if ur interested since u asked. im not sold on him being town at all to be clear.

[innocentvillager]

i think that lack of urgency on being wagoned is either a scumtell or a towntell depending on the personality of the player, like i was talking about when talking about andante. for people who tend not to get elimed as town very often, i might probably a scumtell – but do you have any sort of broader knowledge about midway to say which might be more likely?

this is fair, again i fall into the andante category that u described earlier. tbh i feel midway can totally clap back at people who are shading him but i think he's done it a little as both alignments. if i had to guess it's more often as town that he acts that way. he was pretty flat in 2180 as scum where basically the whole game was null/scumreading him but he was very nonplussed about everything but that is old meta.

i can't recall a time where he was seriously pushed. the only time ive actually seen him get flipped was as scum in 2167 when he finally got flashed he put up very little resistance and just memed and rolled over after playing pretty well for most of the early game.

[innocentvillager]

What did you think I would do as town though? Put up a fight? I mean I probably would.

so you're not town but if you were town you probably would put up a fight

????????

[innocentvillager]

am i trolling or that a straight up scum slip

[innocentvillager]

yknow what im not making the same mistake as in mini normal 2180.

people made excuses for midway's null behavior. he posted reasonable looking analysis. he said he was being a more NAI player lately. people got distracted on other slots that were more polarizing but zero people had him above null some even just probscum. we could've killed earlier but he didn't. i think we should just do it today.

[innocentvillager]

i was referring to mini normal 2180 ^ but im also kind of talking about this game too now that i reread it. it's the same pattern, it fits

[innocentvillager]

im fucking trolling somehow. midway is just town somehow and i am fucking blind, that's the only reason this is going on right

[innocentvillager]

i actually don't know what is going on anymore

[innocentvillager]

What did you think I would do as town though? Put up a fight? I mean I probably would.

so you're not town but if you were town you probably would put up a fight

????????

I did a double take but I think it was more likely just bad phrasing.

are you sure?

[innocentvillager]

what no i still think ur scum im just considering the possibility that im just insane and tunneled on you because it seems im the only one at this point and ya i keep thinking things youre doing are scummy but it's feeling like a whole circlejerk in my head of "am i just confbiased" or is it real

[innocentvillager]

lol glad that you are getting the right read on me?

im not really sure why you had either of these reactions

Also, to answer your question here. I thought that when you were asking skitter to vote me with you, that you were doing the same thing you called Pooky out for doing (tiger trap). I thought you were townreading me there, but it seems like that was a coincidence and you genuinely just wanted to vote me with skitter lol

i didn't do it for the same reason pooky did it but yeah i was alluding to pooky's earlier request lol.

[innocentvillager]

i caught alisae on what was essentially a scumslip in defcon mafia and e self imploded after e gave a shitty explanation

[innocentvillager]

What did you think I would do as town though? Put up a fight? I mean I probably would. But even though I agreed with skitter that the gamestate would probably push the elim onto someone like me sleepless (and flow ig), it doesn't seem to rlly be deflecting on me so there's not much of a reason.

okay midway

so you're saying you would probably put up a fight IF there was real pressure on you here, but you don't feel like there's real pressure so you're not? is that how i should read this quote?

[innocentvillager]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=86449

i don't really want to discuss this at length because this scumslip is not like in any way related to what midway said just now, but i provided it for your oog reference i guess

my only point was literally just that it's possible to scumslip. not in the sense that it makes them 100% to be scum.

basically e slipped that they knew who the nightkill was, then 12 seconds later made a passing comment that someone else could've been the nightkill. I grilled em about this and e come up with a really shitty fake reasoning. e probably could've came up with a less damning reason but didn't. i think some people in that game didn't think it was really a slip - i disagree.

but again that's a separate game.

pedit: ive seen that theory before and there's probably some truth to it

[innocentvillager]

also im pretty sure some guy years ago on here once said "I am also cop" when ccing a claimed cop and got instayeeted.

[innocentvillager]

UNVOTE:
I am willing to vote flow right now cuz I think I was too lenient on my read earlier.

can you talk about this?

[innocentvillager]

Should note that I think the probability distribution I'm getting at is more specific than NSG's, reading hers that context might be confusing.

i'm a little confused myself, i think – what do you mean?

I was referring specifically to alignment-reversed tells like typing "If I were town" instead of "I wish I were scum". Town definitely make the same mistakes, but if it were 50/50 that's >rand and would be valid. You seem to be talking about scumslips as a very broad concept ranging from obvious mechanical TMI ("If [Partner] uses Slip and Slide" where the partner never said the power's name was Slip and Slide) to small slips like midway's.

I don't think that's worth exploring or hashing out here.

to be clear you don't think midway slipped? im a little dumb to understand completely what ur saying

[innocentvillager]

I just think I am(was) townreading flow more because I townread him earlier in the game for gut reasons which doesn't really seem logical at this point in the day

? i don't really know what this means

pedit: would be able to link ur post where you said something like that as town?

[innocentvillager]

that's understandable. ill look at it maybe later if i wake up tmr and im still worried about that post

[innocentvillager]

nsg why are you hyped up trying to get mare and faker to lolwagon sleepless?

[innocentvillager]

I have no fucking clue how to read Sleepless or Flow, fine with both of them though for differing reasons. The wagons I'm actually interested in outside of those (catboi/Pooky/Cakez all worthy of more pressure) nobody thought was worth joining.

if we're not doing midway today i would kill pooky or catboi over flow and sleepless i think.

[innocentvillager]

flow i will switch to at EOD if i need to ig

dont' rly wanna vote sleepless atm

still think midway is most likely scum of everyone even "slip" aside.

[innocentvillager]

are you here to engage in a shit fight or catch scum?

this felt scum-pooky taunty and rubbed me the wrong way idk

[innocentvillager]

Actually

VOTE: flow trap

my impression of him based on researching a few games is that he tends to filler/spam post early as either alignment but as town he gradually transitions into playing more serious where as scum it never really comes, he'll throw in the occasional opinion to look like he's doing something but there's not a lot going on behind the curtain, so to speak. And I feel like his posts over the last couple of real-time days have been essentially that: responding to things for the sake of responding to them but nothing that gives any indication he's really thinking about the game at all

big if true

[innocentvillager]

y u confident on midway town again? quoting past stuff fine

i remember last time we talked about him you were kinda reconsidering/maybe nullish on him

[innocentvillager]

I dont think you've done anything out of line, and i dont think you're being unreasonable, and i think that how you're approaching him is very +town (albeit apparently he's finding you annoying)

And i dont like the way he's reacted/handled this entire situation, and i do think its +scum

At the same time i can see a universe where he felt past experiences with you were ~unpleasant~ and is choosing to interact this way to avoid a repeat (i am thinking of the *other* trust fall)

Again not saying this is what's happening or that i townread him for it, but like it makes sense as a coherent motivator for what he's been doing this game, and i *can* see it coming from town, and it makes his play kinda *fit* in my mind, even if i'm not sure it comes from town, if that makes sense. Like if he's town that's what he's doing here, whereas before the 'pooky motivation' box in my head was just filled with a lot of question marks, and again noting on balance i think its more scum than town to begin with

And yeah i suppose we can see what happens next with that slot anyways

i agree with this

[innocentvillager]

Actually

VOTE: flow trap

my impression of him based on researching a few games is that he tends to filler/spam post early as either alignment but as town he gradually transitions into playing more serious where as scum it never really comes, he'll throw in the occasional opinion to look like he's doing something but there's not a lot going on behind the curtain, so to speak. And I feel like his posts over the last couple of real-time days have been essentially that: responding to things for the sake of responding to them but nothing that gives any indication he's really thinking about the game at all

we should really get some sort of cross check on this by someone who knows flow trap, because if this is true, ill prolly just vote there

if no one wants to ill do some second hand meta myself later i guess

[innocentvillager]

id rather just get stiffies but be limp-wristed and not do anything about it

[innocentvillager]

@datisi y cakez town

[innocentvillager]

Townlean: Something_Smart, Datisi

what made you change my slot from null to townlean?

@Datisi why was cakez very town for u?

fuck if i remember

i said it was something on page 44, let's see

i reread page 44 and i have no clue lmfao. i think it was a mixture of thinking 1093 was like, really Tonally Town and thinking how i don't think scum!cakez would be going out on a limb here to attack pooky the way he is. the argument of "cakez got burned in c9++ for forgetting to fake paranoia so obviously if he drew red here he wouldn't forget it again" is nice, but i'm not sure if scum!cakez would actually be going straight for pooky like this - like it seems more natural to me to fake paranoia in a more lowkey way

this definitely is a read that i should revisit at some point because i kinda tuned cakez's posts out in the recent times but this was why i was townreading him at the time

lmao datisi the beetlejuicer i just found this post i literally asked u the same question -_-

anyway updated u down to vote cakez rn or still ur gut speaks srongly?

[innocentvillager]

Townlean: Something_Smart, Datisi

what made you change my slot from null to townlean?

@Datisi why was cakez very town for u?

fuck if i remember

i said it was something on page 44, let's see

i reread page 44 and i have no clue lmfao. i think it was a mixture of thinking 1093 was like, really Tonally Town and thinking how i don't think scum!cakez would be going out on a limb here to attack pooky the way he is. the argument of "cakez got burned in c9++ for forgetting to fake paranoia so obviously if he drew red here he wouldn't forget it again" is nice, but i'm not sure if scum!cakez would actually be going straight for pooky like this - like it seems more natural to me to fake paranoia in a more lowkey way

this definitely is a read that i should revisit at some point because i kinda tuned cakez's posts out in the recent times but this was why i was townreading him at the time

lmao datisi the beetlejuicer i just found this post i literally asked u the same question -_-

anyway updated u down to vote cakez rn or still ur gut speaks srongly?

[innocentvillager]

will prolly tunnel midway tomorrow VOTE: flow for now

[innocentvillager]

flow sleepless or cakez pick one people

[innocentvillager]

faker is so obviously town

im starting to agree with this sentiment, i think faker is getting really town

[innocentvillager]

I think IV is maf partners with sleepless

ok you and my buddy can vote me alone

[innocentvillager]

also why tf is neither wagonee here

is this scum!indicative??

[innocentvillager]

im addicted to 1 minute on lichess

[innocentvillager]

also why tf is neither wagonee here

is this scum!indicative??

I don't think SA not being here is scum indicative.

Flow, not as sure.

yeah that's kinda how i feel too thanks

[innocentvillager]

"my parents forced me to play tournaments from 8-15"

this might've been me...

pedit oh nice yea me too

[innocentvillager]

A flow elim would be so disappointing here. He's actually the definition of limbait (no offense) and nobody has really even presented any real reason for him being scum, it's just "eh he hasn't really been around / doesn't have enough content". Meanwhile I feel like both me and skitter have presented some at least decently compelling reasons to vote sleepless which seem to mostly not have been engaged with.

i didn't really find anything very convincing on sleepless

if either of you would like to resummarize/requote then ill take another look

[innocentvillager]

I would've been fine shrugyeeting pooky rather than waiting for a replacement but nah not following cakez on a vote

Unfortunately the more I think about it the more I am convinced it is a townclaim replacement.

we're not allowed to discuss this stuff rigth

[innocentvillager]

Actually

VOTE: flow trap

my impression of him based on researching a few games is that he tends to filler/spam post early as either alignment but as town he gradually transitions into playing more serious where as scum it never really comes, he'll throw in the occasional opinion to look like he's doing something but there's not a lot going on behind the curtain, so to speak. And I feel like his posts over the last couple of real-time days have been essentially that: responding to things for the sake of responding to them but nothing that gives any indication he's really thinking about the game at all

we should really get some sort of cross check on this by someone who knows flow trap, because if this is true, ill prolly just vote there

if no one wants to ill do some second hand meta myself later i guess

@nsg how do you feel about this argument for voting flow? you know him right?

[innocentvillager]

catboi went a bit more in-depth in 2313, but his read on flow's meta and my read on his meta don't really track. i'd really appreciate if he could actually give some examples of what he was talking about – i am completely open to having my mind changed if the evidence is actually there, but it doesn't match with what i saw myself.

im very invested in this conversation and would like to see some sort of consensus about the meta not two polar opposite opinions, one incriminating flow one vindicating him

[innocentvillager]

i'll restate my own points:
- sleepless had time in the thread while working on his catch-up post, but seemingly displayed little interest in meaningful real-time interactions

ill give you that this is maybe a very slight point against him, but nothing makes me think this has to be scum indicative. if i was behind and i was working on a huge catch up wall i would be hyping that up too and very focused on that

- sleepless' large post and interactions with datisi are mostly devoid of meaningful, town indicative content

i can't remember the last time i saw a catchup wall (specifically for the purpose of catchup, not just any wall) and went omg they're so town. i think the wall line-by-line was pretty null and it seems you agree - we're just extrapolating about his alignment differently, you think it means specifically that he's scum and i don't really think it's anything because i expect walls to be nully to an extent.

interactions with datisi seemed fine, i think not meaningful seems like a stretch, i also had anxiety about datisi meta and he seemed to get at that issue which was refreshing for me to see. sure nothing line by line town indicative but again i feel like i could say that about a lot of players in this plist. sleepless has been in catchup mode and just not here all that much so it's hard for me to confidently put him south of null for this

- both me and skitter have independently gotten the feeling that sleepless is playing similarly to a previous scumgame (that both me and skitter were in) and dissimilar to a recent towngame (that skitter was in)

it does feel like this game has been moving really really fast and he himself said that's why he's not nearly as present. seems like a reasonable explanation - even i struggle to get into obvtown mode when im perpetually behind. So this doesn't seem super indicative to me. I'd probably want to take a look at the scumgame to further review this.

there's also just not that much to go off of with sleepless in general with how little he's here which is kind of tough for reading him. i don't have a strong opinion on him but it's leantown because he seems focused on getting out his thoughts which seem clear and not agenda driven. could his only agenda just be survival, sure maybe? maybe there's a ting of gut in there that makes me leantown him? idk.

[innocentvillager]

This is funny to me since I spent three weeks or so locked in a cage with flow trap and my conclusion was this dude unreadable YEET

so do you think both catboi and nsg are wrong then in their assessment of flow? seems like you've done more meta diving than them?

[innocentvillager]

i can switch back, like i said i'm happy either way at this point but i don't think sleepless is getting more than 3 votes

(which, for the sixth time, is bizarre)

also this isn't that bizarre to me because like no one has really gotten more than 3 votes except now with the EOD struggle, im not sure why you found it bizarre

by that logic isn't it also bizarre how midway never got more than 3 votes?

[innocentvillager]

deadline will be 48 hours after the replacement lands

lmao okay we're chilling we have some time guys. let's use it and rethink. we don't necessarily need to do flow or sleepless today anymore.

[innocentvillager]

i'm on page 90 and i am back to thinking iv might be scum because his INSISTANCE about the scumslip might be scummy because he's latching onto nonsense instead of spending his precious time solving the game

you're literally fucking joking right?

[innocentvillager]

i don't think that ever comes from scum!you so congrats if ur scum and found way to pocket me but damn was that bad

[innocentvillager]

ok

[innocentvillager]

wow where was all this scumslip doubt when i "scumslipped" in Mini Normal 2163 as town and 7 townies deathtunneled me for PT slipping

[innocentvillager]

ok who is faking meta here guys

[innocentvillager]

i think this day no one really had any strong convictions or cases so we all just kind of prodded around with each other and we didn't really sheep each and create wagons and dynamic action

which on balance, im starting to feel is kind of a bad thing but it's a bit late for that

tomorrow let's get some more wagons and pressure ppl more

[innocentvillager]

Can you elaborate on these characteristics a bit? From the standard definition, Faker seems relatively diplomatic this game (he even mentioned that it was basically the goal of the alt).

Spoiler: Normal Flow

Maybe

Spoiler: Brutally Honest Flow

No, I cannot, I do not have the mental capacity to determine of how these specific vague concepts and what I am thinking into anything logical right now but I am going to have a freakout trying to as I don't want to be useless anymore.

this is one of the few posts in flow's iso that townpinged me a bit

[innocentvillager]

Cat idk guess it’s just a first order reaction to what seems like an honest thought and I think scum struggle to write something with that kind of openness

but it’s not enough to make me unvote the slot ig

[innocentvillager]

if anyone wants to start a flashwagon/case on someone other than sleepless or flow now is the time. It will be too late very soon.

[innocentvillager]

actually it’s probably already too late. i would still like midway but don’t think people want what I want.

[innocentvillager]

I would like to point out that flow hasnt said anything or had any reaction to his wagon yet
(And theoretically he doesnt know abt the extended deadline, so as far as he knows deadline is in like 4 hours or something)

how does that make you feel about this wagon?

[innocentvillager]

that can’t be a serious vote right

[innocentvillager]

I would like to point out that flow hasnt said anything or had any reaction to his wagon yet
(And theoretically he doesnt know abt the extended deadline, so as far as he knows deadline is in like 4 hours or something)

Oh I didn't realize it was extended either. Well that's helpful

lol ok what was your plan before and what do you want to do now with this extra time?

[innocentvillager]

I would like to point out that flow hasnt said anything or had any reaction to his wagon yet
(And theoretically he doesnt know abt the extended deadline, so as far as he knows deadline is in like 4 hours or something)

how does that make you feel about this wagon?

Leaning towards scum indicative ... kinda feel like town makes sure to check in to make sure a wagon happens >.>

(Or nai and he's busy i suppose)

i mean maybe

i feel like id be sweating balls as scum and more invested in the outcome (than town) even if i was crazy busy

if i was scum in his spot given that im not posting im probably still periodically checking in on thread

[innocentvillager]

yeah i agree w u that it falls a bit more in the "demotivated busy/behind scum checking in periodically but doesn't want to post" camp

if he cared about this game as town he'd at least pop in with a post or two not just dip

which means if he's town he straight up doesn't care about this game, but that's not rly the sense that i get i guess from his iso?

[innocentvillager]

are you still behind/what are you current thoughts on the gamestate/reads

[innocentvillager]

im ok not killing you today but i kind of just want to see more from you ig?

like are you still sold that im scum for instance? i haven't seen you talk about that much lately despite me being ur top SR

[innocentvillager]

i mean i don't think what she said is unreasonable and should be flipped for that alone?

not all scum play the way you described

it's not like it's okay for VT to just ghost the thread either

either way flow is kind of throwing for his alignment with his actions

[innocentvillager]

but yeah i think you convinced me that it's not scum!indicative anymore

ill just call it nai i guess, i can see it from both alignments

[innocentvillager]

i do kind of agree he'd feel more urgency to find some way to come back and flail if he were scum. if he were a certain type of scum player that is. Some people don't feel the urgency as much as VT even though it is also important as VT. I don't think it makes a world of difference in theory because you would rather have some shot at killing scum than 0% shot.

but like, either way it's deadline and he's not here, it's just weird to me that you wouldn't be here like whatsoever as either alignment when you're the center of attention so i just can't really bring myself to make a strong conclusion either way

pedit: i mean i don't think everyone specifically thinks that way. how do you feel about all the people camping out on random votes then?
pedit2: to be clear faker u think flow is just straight up town for ghosting the thread at deadline?

[innocentvillager]

i do see your point though faker and part of that logic was kind of why i asked skitter in the first place to explain what she thought it meant for flow's alignment. i found her explanation more reasonable at the time and now that you're reintroducing this im not sure anymore.

[innocentvillager]

When you're a scum player you fish, flail, and stall.

Or give up and antispew

i usually just implode and hide away in my closet cursing ms.net for my shitty redroll when i get wagoned as scum

or i full on AtE

depends on my mood

[innocentvillager]

Either way this discussion has made me think my point is nai, as i was reminded that different people have different tendencies towards playing scum in a vaccuum

Also tbf if he's scum i would imagine someone had said something abt the situation in the scum pt, which i do think people check more often than the main thread, so he's probably completely unaware

i have seen scum PTs that were a page long, you'd be surprised how little some scum post/check in there

not everyone is like me you or Datisi who will spam 30 pages

[innocentvillager]

i maintain that if you don't even check in to this site when you are a serious wagon candidate at deadline you are throwing for your alignment. you're passively supporting an elimination that is strictly worse for your alignment than if you try to fight it off.

you can say a few words and at least try and tell the town where you're at even if ur super busy.

nothing wrong with throwing occasionally, rl and emotions get the best of us.

pedit: still want flow trap over sleepless

[innocentvillager]

he's obviously just tilted at being told to go back to newbie queue

understandable, id prolly be too

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: sleepless

reread the iso and almost all of the last 40-ish posts are white noise

yeah he seems like he's just here for the sake of being here. i kind of feel like he'd try to posture more as scum though.

[innocentvillager]

sigh

we're out here grinding asleep assassin vs ghost trap

while midway is doing nothing but beetlejuicing, responding to a couple things, gives his new thought of the day and dipping, still with no vote anywhere or desire to help town with deadline

[innocentvillager]

when have i thrown out sleepless as scum? ive made it very clear my preference is midway > flow > sleepless

[innocentvillager]

ive stated multiple times on things that give me pause on sleepless but im not confident/it's weak townlean. id rather get the other two so i spend more time there.

can you elaborate on why you think he cares more about our read on him than his read for who scum is?

[innocentvillager]

scum stirring stuff up, cause they don't want sleepless wagoned?

Faker is defending flow, actually. I think it's reasonably likely that both wagons are T/T, in which case scum are just trying to increase divisiveness and cause arguments.

yeah this is always a possibility and honestly wouldn't be super surprised if this was the case here where literally zero wagons emerged until deadline scramble.

[innocentvillager]

i agree there's nothing towny in sleepless's posts line by line. iso'ing his latest posts is just putting me to sleep.

maybe i shouldn't be so opposed to killing him.

pedit: yeah i agree they're kinda similar slots

[innocentvillager]

I have uh

Like 5 mins

Who we killin

Me or flow trap. Any other vote is useless

can you explain why you still think im scum? the updated version?

[innocentvillager]

bleh

i kind of think reads not changing since his big wallpost is a little +scum tbh.

[innocentvillager]

Sleepless who do you think is scum?

Flow Trap and Innocentvillager.

Possibly faker, catboi, north

like you realize i chose flow over you right? when flow was still the bigger wagon and he could die at any moment? idk i feel like it's super easy for me to go after you instead so surely this is giving you a little pause?

pedit: wait lol what you think we are explicitly partnery? why wouldn't i just help skitter and nsg push you when it's totally viable to do so

[innocentvillager]

why does it feel like your reads don't change and don't update to new information?

[innocentvillager]

I rushed this but it's better than nothing for now

Mare - Town. There have been some short paragraphs where I can see where Mare is coming from and follow the thought process

Andante - town. She's playing similarly to last game. I can see resl thought processes even if I don't usually agree. I find it a little weird she seems to think I'm sleeping her when we're not usually on the same page but it's not a big deal. I wasted time getting frustrated with things like that last game.

Sircakez - town. I haven't seen many of his posts but what I've seen looks town. Similar to last game

Midway - I've gone back and forth but lean town

Pooky - I think town.

Datisi - I wanna say town but I'm not nearly as convinced as I was last time. I'll say for sure my read has strengthened some in recent interactions

Skitter - Something feels different this game but can't figure out what. Maybe its just that she's pressuring me this time.

Something Smart - A true null. I haven't seen anything to sway me one way or the other

North - In the PoE pool. I don't have much and some has looked townie but Datisi interactions are a little off.

Catboi - He's one of my "could be scum" reads. I mentioned in my catch up part one I didn't like some of his posting around the time of the Midway stuff and I didn't care a ton for his interactions with skitter although even some of that looked more town than not so yeah I'm kind of scatter brained here. He's one I'll want to ISO to get a better feel.

Faker - I got a "too calculated" read early on but the more I read that may just be the way he posts. Still, I don't see anything to town read him for. So he remains in that PoE pool.

Flow Trap - I still think scum for his spam/meme posting. It feels like trying to maintain a presence without really doing much. And his content didn't seem to be anything that would get him into trouble if he's scum

Innocentvillager- Scum. I've started to go into this one some. I know I need to say more. I'll try.

hm i did kinda think this post was townish for being nonpostury and SOC.

[innocentvillager]

Anyway, IV is an easy read, if he looks incredibly limbait he’s prob town, if he reads like a v towny boi then he’s scum

??? both of these are wrong?

[innocentvillager]

im like one of the furthest slots from limbait in this game and im also a towny boi

doesn't make me scum, it makes me obvtown

it's exceedingly rare that i get miselimed as town these days.

[innocentvillager]

i am a p easy read tho usually and i think i am this game

[innocentvillager]

herosolve rn is midway/flow/mena

[innocentvillager]

i wouldn't mind join an impromptu flashwagon on catboi but i doubt that's happening

[innocentvillager]

vibes?

i don't think u and midway are scum together

i don't really care for the sleepless wagon for some reason

im skimming ur iso rn and struggling to find anything i can grab at as towny content

[innocentvillager]

i had a very short part of my dream in which flow flipped scum and everyone laughed at me for being wrong, and i think there was something about someone being a witch: either the witch was me, or maybe it was "flow witch" or something. anyways, this of course has no relevance to the actual game, everyone knows reading tea leaves is the only true way to divine alignments.

on a completely unrelated note, i think it's mildly scum indicative how much datisi's posting seems to have slowed down ever since the sort of "deadline scramble" part of the game began

nsg conftown

yeah datisi not being here not the best look ig but i kind of already loltownbinned him for the day and don't want to parse his alignment

think he's totally capable of actually trying here as scum tho

[innocentvillager]

these aren't the droids you're looking for

[innocentvillager]

catboi have you done anything out of your scumrange yet?

[innocentvillager]

Innocentvillager what made you call North town after the dream.post? I'm curious if we're on the same page. You might flip my read with this answer

wow high stakes

Spoiler: warning! very advanced reasoning

because i don't think it was faked, and if it's genuine then she's town

[innocentvillager]

datisi is the ultimate beetlejuicer

datisi how do you feel about sleepless and catboi

[innocentvillager]

ok cat how do you approach games as scum/why is this diff

why do i feel like youv'e been spending a lot of this game in the scum PT

[innocentvillager]

Innocentvillager what made you call North town after the dream.post? I'm curious if we're on the same page. You might flip my read with this answer

wow high stakes

Spoiler: warning! very advanced reasoning

because i don't think it was faked, and if it's genuine then she's town

I was looking more for why it's town if genuine. I know it probably seems obvious but humor me. I just want to know if your brain did what mine did

because you don't really have dreams about people flipping different alignments if you're scum? while as town you're constantly trying to guess who will flip what? i thought this was more of a given lol, i was kind of expecting you to ask me about the first half of my conclusion

[innocentvillager]

I'm still convinced IV is sleepless's partner

very cool

[innocentvillager]

Ok yeah thats what I was looking for.

It feels like you've played a game where this came up though. It doesn't feel like a new thought. So slightly disappointed

well no ive never played a game where someone claimed to have a dream about someone flipping, at least not that i can recall. i did just have the thought immediately when she said it. like literally immediately. i was like what scum fakes this.