Mini Normal 2262: NbITGBSMoD [game over]

[the worst]

sure. these are all like, moderate strength tprs with groovy role interactions. scum have a fair bit of power/control with their roles. I don't think 5 tprs is outlandish. I think a scum backup gs is slightly more outlandish fwiw.

[the worst]

I'm not like...... renown for my setup review talents btw..... my brain is about the size of an apricot...

[the worst]

here's the thing I guess. I wouldn't gamble the game on either interpretation being correct; I don't share stephen's confidence in datisi being incapable of shaking up his mod meta. I don't assume for a moment that datisi is so strongly in favour of 4 tprs per setup that he's going to fight the normal review group on their notion of balance. I think this setup is designed so that increasing one faction's ev deliberately nerfs their sheer power (as scum die, town power roles get weaker). I think that design ethos shines brighter than some bizarre notion that 10:3 games MUST;!!! have 4 TPRs. I think that notion is kind of silly.

I also dont think its entirely impossible.
But I think it's a goofy excuse to chainsaw though claimed roles at the expense of just chainsawing scumbags.

I'd rather just eliminate potential scumbags until I'm confident I can solve via day stuff.

[the worst]

for Stephen to be scum, we would need
- a scum doctor in a gunsmith heavy setup (extremely powerful scum role + 1 reasonably strong scum role + 1 scum anti swing role vs. a gunsmith, backup gunsmith and a couple of millers. which would be insane.)
- Stephen bussing his own enabler, and then correctly guessing that his correct play was to claim literally the most perfect fakeclaim possible
- just to reiterate: half the TPRs being miller variants, one of whom was also a jack-of-a-couple of trades

I'm pretty comfortable just declaring Stephen absolutely town; I think andante is fairly likely town by play (a lot of past criticism about her is kinda the same reason ive just scumread her like two games in a row; she just changes her mind a lot and doesn't slow down to talk thru it much); I think Hockey's role fits the design ethos better as town but I wouldn't bet the game on it; I think Dwlee's play is very consistent and makes a lot of sense but I'm not sure I'd bet the game on that either.

absolutely think that the last scum is in eyes/umlaut.

[the worst]

gunsmith + backup gunsmith is a shitload of power

in a game with 2 gs millers and the inexplicable notion that gs innos are ~~~never quite innos~~~?

sorry, I am just not picking up what youre putting down.

sell me on 2 of [town!eyes, town!umlaut, scum!hockey] by dayplay and you have my sword.

[the worst]

I'd put a scum backup gunsmith in this setup at like, nearly as strong as a doctor. nrg hate scum roles which look town via setup.

again I keep reminding myself that I'm not going to correctly solve this game mechanically so this isn't a wager on the game, I just don't think its a remotely compelling argument to saw through tprs

[the worst]

i pretty much never fakeclaim alien after i get investigated as an inno lol

yeah fr

I have trust issues dont mind me qualifying my townread on someone inno'd

[the worst]

thats a meaningless argument though, lol, the gs + miller both have to out for that dialogue to take place. the hit to town ev is pretty considerable, and gs millers dont know to claim that they're millers until the kinda situation dwlee was put in today (where there is clearly not a vig)

[quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13279038]post 2732[/url], the worst"][quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13266213]post 1975[/url], Datisi"][color=teal][b][size=160]vote count 1.final[/size][/b][/color]
[color=teal][b]with 13 votes in play, it took 7 to make a decision. day 1 ended.[/b][/color]

[area=yeet][b][color=#00BF00]Greeting[/color] [7]:[/b] [color=#00BF00]fireisredsir[/color], [color=#BF0000]Nero Cain[/color], Eyes without a face, Stephen A Smith, [color=#BF0000]Scorpious[/color], [color=#FF40FF]HockeyFan[/color], Dwlee99 [b][color=teal][HAMMER][/color][/b]
[b][color=#BF0000]Nero Cain[/color] [2]:[/b] [color=#00BF00]Frozen Angel[/color], [color=#00BF00]Greeting[/color]
[b][color=#BF0000]Scorpious[/color] [2]:[/b] [color=#00BF00]wavemode[/color], the worst
[b]Andante [1]:[/b] Umlaut

[b]not voting [1]:[/b] Andante[/area][/quote]

[quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13275575]post 2593[/url], Datisi"][color=teal][b][size=160]vote count 2.final[/size][/b][/color]
[color=teal][b]with 11 votes in play, it took 6 to make a decision. day 2 ended.[/b][/color]

[area=yeet][b][color=#BF0000]Nero Cain[/color] [6]:[/b] the worst, Umlaut, [color=#BF0000]Scorpious[/color], Stephen A Smith, Dwlee99, Andante [b][color=teal][HAMMER][/color][/b]
[b][color=#BF0000]Scorpious[/color] [1]:[/b] [color=#FF40FF]HockeyFan[/color]
[b]Andante [1]:[/b] [color=#BF0000]Nero Cain[/color]
[b]the worst [1]:[/b] Eyes without a face
[b]Eyes without a face [1]:[/b] [color=#00BF00]wavemode[/color]

[b]not voting [1]:[/b] [color=#00BF00]fireisredsir[/color][/area][/quote]

[quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13277813]post 2717[/url], Datisi"][color=teal][b][size=160]vote count 3.final[/size][/b][/color]
[color=teal][b]with 9 votes in play, it took 5 to make a decision. day 3 ended.[/b][/color]

[area=yeet][b][color=#BF0000]Scorpious[/color] [5]:[/b] [color=#00BF00]wavemode[/color], Andante, [color=#FF40FF]HockeyFan[/color], Dwlee99, Stephen A Smith [b][color=teal][HAMMER][/color][/b]
[b]Dwlee99 [1]:[/b] the worst
[b][color=#00BF00]wavemode[/color] [1]:[/b] [color=#BF0000]Scorpious[/color]

[b]not voting [2]:[/b] Eyes without a face, Umlaut[/area][/quote]


anyone else into this stuff?
assuming hockey is town, nero was either p gloriously bussed or eyes is last scum. eyes has scumsided on all eod wagons.[/quote]

just a reminder eyes keeps scumsiding; its not a silver bullet but I just kinda think it's more convincing than what you're saying as far as finding scum goes eliminating tprs just because of loose setup spec is like cutting off our nose to spite our face. noses without a face.

[the worst]

thats a meaningless argument though, lol, the gs + miller both have to out for that dialogue to take place. the hit to town ev is pretty considerable, and gs millers dont know to claim that they're millers until the kinda situation dwlee was put in today (where there is clearly not a vig)

vote count 1.final

with 13 votes in play, it took 7 to make a decision. day 1 ended.

yeet

Greeting

[7]:

fireisredsir

,

Nero Cain

, Eyes without a face, Stephen A Smith,

Scorpious

,

HockeyFan

, Dwlee99

[HAMMER]

Nero Cain

[2]:

Frozen Angel

,

Greeting

Scorpious

[2]:

wavemode

, the worst

Andante [1]:

Umlaut

not voting [1]:

Andante

vote count 2.final

with 11 votes in play, it took 6 to make a decision. day 2 ended.

yeet

Nero Cain

[6]:

the worst, Umlaut,

Scorpious

, Stephen A Smith, Dwlee99, Andante

[HAMMER]

Scorpious

[1]:

HockeyFan

Andante [1]:

Nero Cain

the worst [1]:

Eyes without a face

Eyes without a face [1]:

wavemode

not voting [1]:

fireisredsir

vote count 3.final

with 9 votes in play, it took 5 to make a decision. day 3 ended.

yeet

Scorpious

[5]:

wavemode

, Andante,

HockeyFan

, Dwlee99, Stephen A Smith

[HAMMER]

Dwlee99 [1]:

the worst

wavemode

[1]:

Scorpious

not voting [2]:

Eyes without a face, Umlaut

anyone else into this stuff?
assuming hockey is town, nero was either p gloriously bussed or eyes is last scum. eyes has scumsided on all eod wagons.

just a reminder eyes keeps scumsiding; its not a silver bullet but I just kinda think it's more convincing than what you're saying as far as finding scum goes eliminating tprs just because of loose setup spec is like cutting off our nose to spite our face. noses without a face.

sorry, fat fingers. requoted for legibility.

[the worst]

i am an incredibly simple man and i think incredibly simple thoughts

i dont believe scum dont shoot a backup gunsmith that is confirmed to be a backup gunsmith

even if last scum is a doctor

because doctors can get poed out and i dont believe there is a mafia doctor in a game with gunsmith. last time datisi ran a game with mafia doctor vs town gunsmith he announced the existence of mafia doctor in the public information.

i believe datisi is an artist with his setups. he likes 4 tprs because he thinks it looks pretty. all 4 mini normals he ran have 4 tprs.

there is something beautiful about having an town alien - mafia alien enabler and a town gunsmith and a mafia backup gunsmith. its the kind of circle of life thing that datisi would love to throw into a game just because.

hockeyfan is a cowboys fan

we should kill him for that alone.

I am a simple man. I think simple thoughts. But I am often right so.

I think shooting wave (indeterminate remaining power, had guiltied scum) makes a lot more sense than shooting a backup gunsmith, irrespective of the last scum role. I think eliminating the claimed backup gunsmith before the rest of the PoE is doing scum's work for them.

consider: you know me to be a big fan of an easy endgame.

tw, andante, stephen (clear), eyes, umlaut, dwlee, hockey
eliminate eyes: tw, andante, Stephen (clear), umlaut, dwlee, hockey
scum shoots stephen, hockey checks umlaut: tw, andante, umlaut (clear), dwlee, hockey
elim dwlee (policy; cant be inno'd): tw, andante, umlaut (clear), hockey
scum shoots hockey (f3 umlaut has to choose between andante or I) or umlaut (hockey 1v1s one of andante or I)

I don't think scum leaving Hockey alive is a red flag at all. if you have other reasons to think Hockey is scum, or that the other two scummy players are town, I'm all ears.

[the worst]

I accept that policy eliminating Dwlee in f5 there would be very funny and silly its just an exercise

[the worst]

sadly the claim makes sense but, alas, now we policy hockey instead

[the worst]

umlaut is probably just not the correct elim today. eyes or hockey, I'll lolhammer either
UNVOTE:

[the worst]

I was willing to accept one claim pivot in favour of survivalism but if his claim changes every time we present a situation in which his claim can't win as scum, something about ducks quacking, etc.

honestly I am secretly not sure if Umlaut is scum with Nero I just didn't wanna say it if he and eyes were my PoE >.> <.<

[the worst]

umlaut is probably just not the correct elim today

why?

I think scumlaut is strictly a worse solve than scum-without-a-team or scumckeyfan

[the worst]

I'm nauseous

pedit o gotcha

[the worst]

plan a

VOTE: eyes

[the worst]

ok fine maybe he didnt downgrade his claim i still think hes a scumbaggo but im fine going somewhere else or w/e

what's ur plan b?

[the worst]

this is real boring

[the worst]

i'mma wait for eyes & umlaut to check in.

[the worst]

I think the way hockey didn't personally clarify 1-shot was kinda townie as well idk

kinda same

i think a decent part of it is the way he didn't seem to catch that he'd already been rolecopped as 1-shot

[the worst]

That's a decent point but didn't wave confirm Hockey's PR claim? Do you think they're Mafia Backup 1-Shot Gunsmith? Giving Mafia a PR shot after killing a town PR seems so... bad.

this is where i settle as well...lol

umlaut, what are your solve/s like?

[the worst]

*pout*
eyes flip would make solving this game sooo much more fun

That's a decent point but didn't wave confirm Hockey's PR claim? Do you think they're Mafia Backup 1-Shot Gunsmith? Giving Mafia a PR shot after killing a town PR seems so... bad.

this is where i settle as well...lol

Actually I thought more about it and giving Mafia a gunsmith shot is kind of meaningless since they have not much of anything to use it on. The 1-Shot part is a bit on the weird side I still agree

pedit: i guess it's not a major balancing factor if it's one-shot. i feel like it's kind of deliberately swingy for the sake of it + de-synergy-ish with the rest of the setup, is all.

[the worst]

i think both dwlee and hockey look good off scum!nero tbh

[the worst]

i guess we can kill eyes if everyone wants to

i really wannaaa

[the worst]

i'll take it, gg all

[the worst]

IN YOUR FACE STEPHEN

[the worst]

mmm. creepy. i'm fine waiting for the mod to check in then just yeeting eyes if it wasn't earnest.

[the worst]

dang i have never been so happy to be wrong!

[the worst]

gg all, nice hammer Stephen, thanks for modding datisi