Micro 1052: Lake Melancholy [END]

[VP Baltar]

i don't really want to die on this hill bc like i said not a major point

You won't shut up about it when I tell you it is dumb, but datisi says the same thing and you're like "let's move on counselor".

Weeeeeeee

[VP Baltar]

Dark horse scum team is dwlee/ceph

[VP Baltar]

Cool, I'm scum ari. Let's lim prism and you can make more shouty noises tomorrow.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: fire

While I agree with this, idk if the votes are actually there to make this happen.

[VP Baltar]

Cool, I'm scum ari. Let's lim prism and you can make more shouty noises tomorrow.

Ari is currently voting me

Yeah. Hoping by telling ari to stop shouting nomsense and rally votes we can move the game forward, but that is like asking Ronald Mcdonald to take down the fashion statement 10 notches.

[VP Baltar]

This game is a straight up meme.

I kinda love it.

[VP Baltar]

I'm not a big fan deciding D1 lims as hard consensus that way because they rarely seem to be correct.

have you ever had a single game where you actually used this line of reasonign

All the time? That's why I always push dueling wagons D1. Then there is no consensus read and people must pick a side. If everyone agrees D1, you know some shut is probably not right.

[VP Baltar]

why are you zeroing in on this like its the sole thing supporting my vp suspicion

i voted him long before this

It was 5 hours homie

let's goooooo im less sold on skitter now too

VOTE: vp

i think a town vp would be partner reading me with prism here. he has everyone as a townread except me, prism, shuichi, and im apparently pocketing shuichi. i haven't really engaged with prism much or talked about her, and when he poked about it i gave a pretty noncommittal answer. but he let that go, which i found strange

maybe he hasn't commented on that explicitly bc he knows prism would object to that idea

[VP Baltar]

I'm just getting started

[VP Baltar]

Damn, I left that on the table

[VP Baltar]

I want to lim fire because he is coo coo for cacao puffs overe here, but you'll get there eventually.

[VP Baltar]

Honestly just considered the troll unvote.

I wish enchant was here

[VP Baltar]

Before I forget:

mod I'll be VLA Thursday - Sunday morning

I'll try to check the thread if I can, but I have company in town this weekend.

[VP Baltar]

Honestly just considered the troll unvote.

I wish enchant was here

You called?

Hello kind sir. May I interest you in the religion of voting Prism or fire?

[VP Baltar]

We have snacks

[VP Baltar]

So can you case them and i read it when i wake up?

This has been discussed already and I am too tired now too. We can talk tomorrow.

You go sleep sleep now

[VP Baltar]

i would prefer there not be a lim on prism, enchant, ari, shuichi. could be scum in there, but i don't want it today. probably would lean away from skitter at this point. really would like vp and i think it's doable. not sure on dwlee and datisi.

You [Prism, not fire] can't just be like "Yea this group of four could have scum but let's not lim there" in a 9p with 2 scum

bruh

also this whole time I thought this post was referencing my pool+the vote on me not the fire pool in the quote welp

Why would you think this was referencing you?

[VP Baltar]

Hrm ok

[VP Baltar]

This is wild. We agreed to keep the hood quiet D1 and suichi out here making unilateral moves to out it.

I am not going to read this wall in detail RN, but I don't love this development

[VP Baltar]

Also ur point about vpb not solving in the hood is interesting,

I am solving in the hood though with datisi. I think suichi is feelingout

[VP Baltar]

I cannot wait for dats to weigh in on this. There is zero town reason for suichi to out this but to cause drama. Possible he was worried about prism going down here. I even told him in the hood to just go after me if he thought I was scum. No reason to dump the hood

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Baltar
Idk why keeping a 3p hood secret would ever be a good idea and his outrage about it is bothersome

Because it guarantees we lim in the hood and first mover has the advantage to not be the lim. This is literally what just happened in the last game with Nero outing the hood except he was dumb enough to be town and still do it.

This is an intentional play possibly and it fucks the hood's usefulness just as datisi and I were starting to vibe in there. I will probably get flipped today, and then scum!suichi can say 'oh gee, maybe it is datisi' and then 'I guess the hood was all town!'

I could have outted the hood earlier when I was catching votes. Even talked about how I didn't want to do it when fire was asking how my datisi read developed. And suichi's response is to do it in thread to smear me? He could have just voted me. Nah, seems purposeful.

[VP Baltar]

i think enchant is town but im also kinda dumb so idk

And people reading this as town.

[VP Baltar]

if shuichi was widely townread over you and datisi, i could potentially be paranoid of him going for a play where he outs the hood to chain lim you and datisi. but i don't think thats how it goes down, p sure more he's higher in most people's poe than datisi is. so it just seems like a losing play for him as scum

This is a micro game. How many mislims you think scum need to win this?

[VP Baltar]

I'm like getting tilted at whoever the fuck is actually town out of prism/skitter/fire here.

[VP Baltar]

I didnt want to hold in points that were hugging me while making my case. Simple enough

And valyar had been threatening to out it if I came too hard at him so this would have been the result anyway...

Oh you are here lurking. Nice

[VP Baltar]

if shuichi was widely townread over you and datisi, i could potentially be paranoid of him going for a play where he outs the hood to chain lim you and datisi. but i don't think thats how it goes down, p sure more he's higher in most people's poe than datisi is. so it just seems like a losing play for him as scum

This is a micro game. How many mislims you think scum need to win this?

do you think Prism is Mafia?

My vote is there, yeah?

[VP Baltar]

Yes I am chilling here lurking and it took me 7 minutes to write that post

Who do you think is my buddy again? What's your poe?

[VP Baltar]

Dwlee or prism probably but I havent gotten to them yet and I dont like to preflip

When did you develop a prism read? Didn't I ask you explicitly for a prism read and you said some mealy mouthed shit?

[VP Baltar]

Oh I see what happened. This afternoon in the hood datisi made a joke about Suichi being meme scum in the hood, and I made a joke about how that's actually likely and he strikes out in main thread. Cool. Cool cool.

[VP Baltar]

I'm like getting tilted at whoever the fuck is actually town out of prism/skitter/fire here.

??????

Spoiler: @prism

was actually kinda interesting to read about your irl, i wish you great luck in law school

I'm actually not tilted at prism. She is doing what she has to do as either alignment.

If you and fire are town, which at least one of you have to be, you're not playing a thoughtful game here and are getting pocketed probably.

[VP Baltar]

if shuichi was widely townread over you and datisi, i could potentially be paranoid of him going for a play where he outs the hood to chain lim you and datisi. but i don't think thats how it goes down, p sure more he's higher in most people's poe than datisi is. so it just seems like a losing play for him as scum

This is a micro game. How many mislims you think scum need to win this?

do you think Prism is Mafia?

My vote is there, yeah?

so you think prism, fire and shui r all mafia?

I do think all the scum is most likely in that PoE, yes. That's been clearly my stance for awhile now.

[VP Baltar]

How are you reading me even if you're lumping me in the same category as fire ..

And fine, lets play this game: what am i not being 'thoughtful' about and who i am getting pocketed by

I think if prism is scum here, she is playing you.

[VP Baltar]

do you think the 3p hood must have a scum or not?

Must? Idk, that's some outguessing the mod shit. Possible or likely? Definitely. Suichi and I have both made it known we think it could be the other person. Like I said, I think suichi didn't like that datisi and I were vibing and tried to make a preemptive play possibly.

[VP Baltar]

Ari, why do you think suichi chose now to out the hood?

[VP Baltar]

you were probably going to get flipped even if he didn't reveal because a lot of people scumread you and knowing that this is a carbon copy of the last setup seems like something important to know.

This doesn't make any sense. So I'm going to get flipped anyway, and he thinks I'm scum, so wouldn't that just make the hood more powerful if town!suichi then has a masonry essentially? Unless he thought I was scum with datisi, which he apparently does not.

And knowing about the setup right now changes what? This was something we already talked about in the hood, so Datisi was aware. Clearly he is not using this information to alter the direction of the thread.

None of this explains why out the hood now.

[VP Baltar]

and a lot of the reasoning for why he wants to flip you have to do with inconsistencies in your play between hood and thread and his case lays out why you are probably trying to pocket Datisi in the hood.

I will respond to his case in detail tomorrow. If a lot of his case relies on me being more transparent in the hood than I am in thread, that's not really a good case.

As far as pocketing, you of all people should know town!datisi inherently doesn't trust me. That's a play that is unlikely to ever succeed because if I pushed datisi to town read me, he'd do the exact opposite. I don't think I could legitimately pocket datisi.

[VP Baltar]

Why is dats the consensus town in the hood?

For me, it's because Datisi and I have been having some good back and forths about the game recently and we are being pretty clearly transparent with each other. Datisi is also exhibiting his usual paranoia in the hood PT in a pretty real way.

I don't know suichi's reasons for the town read of datisi. I feel like he hasn't really expressed much if any suspicion about him in the PT all game.

[VP Baltar]

As far as pocketing, you of all people should know town!datisi inherently doesn't trust me. That's a play that is unlikely to ever succeed because if I pushed datisi to town read me, he'd do the exact opposite. I don't think I could legitimately pocket datisi.

I literally just spent 2 hours re-reading guardians

where you got datisi to trust you.

uh was your takeaway that datisi was being pocketed by me or would have been that game? imaginality was obv scum that game and it took me like four RL days of talking to datisi to get him to a vote he was not even that sure about.

[VP Baltar]

convincing datisi in that game to not lim me and lose the game was like the absolute most effort I have put into trying to win a game since I came back to this site.

[VP Baltar]

This doesn't make any sense. So I'm going to get flipped anyway, and he thinks I'm scum, so wouldn't that just make the hood more powerful if town!suichi then has a masonry essentially? Unless he thought I was scum with datisi, which he apparently does not.

if he thinks you're mafia then mafia already know about the hood

him hinting he is going to vote me is not a new development in the thread. still doesn't explain why now.

[VP Baltar]

convincing datisi in that game to not lim me and lose the game was like the absolute most effort I have put into trying to win a game since I came back to this site.

so you can absolutely pocket him in a PT if you went max effort why r you pretending you can't

It is a wild ass take for you to walk away from that game, which you watched in real time, and think that was easy or even possible for me to do as scum.

[VP Baltar]

I don't even see why you're trying to convince me.

because I always hold out hope for the day you actually learn how to read me and stop playing oscar the grouch dumpster mafia.

[VP Baltar]

convincing datisi in that game to not lim me and lose the game was like the absolute most effort I have put into trying to win a game since I came back to this site.

so you can absolutely pocket him in a PT if you went max effort why r you pretending you can't

It is a wild ass take for you to walk away from that game, which you watched in real time, and think that was easy or even possible for me to do as scum.

I didn't say it was easy - I said it's possible

I actually don't think I could do that as scum.

[VP Baltar]

you wouldn't walk into the hood with your hands up and be like "oh you got me"

yeah, for sure. I'm just saying I don't think pocket is the play I'd go for. I'd probably just want to play it as believable as possible for a day and NK him. Pocket is too risky and something I don't think I'd have the confidence with datisi to pull off. He's studied my game too much.

[VP Baltar]

what's your opinion of dats btw?

is he as locktown as ceph says?

Dats has fooled me before, but I feel pretty safe calling him town. I don't think some of his hood interactions would be super easy to fake with me, though you never know with his tricksy self.

[VP Baltar]

you would nightkill in a hood of 3 and narrow poe for yourself

really.

That seems more survivable through WIFOM and less stressful than trying to fool Datisi.

[VP Baltar]

kind of jealous you get a PT with Dats

I legit said this was the best part of the hood. Enjoy the jealousy on all our SECRET CHATS

[VP Baltar]

so please point me to what you want comments on

I haven't read suichi's case yet, but that's probably a place to start. I'll check it out tomorrow after I wake up because it is 1am and I am actually going to tell my insomnia to take a hike and I will really go to sleep now.

[VP Baltar]

i had nightmare that dats is mafia :<

well I got no sleep again.

Relatable

[VP Baltar]

one thing that i do want baltar to address in detail is the way his read on me progressed throughout this game. because i am reading a certain amount of being unsure whether i am clearly town or bigbraining scum, and i'm not sure i track how his thoughts are supposed to have been progressing in this game

I'll dive back into the memory banks and give you the play by play as my mafia priority today.

[VP Baltar]

At least 4 out of 9 people on this thread are sleep deprived.
.
.
.
.
.
.
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I think we can reach a 100-page D1 team.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Prism
I'm sleep deprived!

Let's keep the party rolling fam!

[VP Baltar]

is it bad that im starting to feel like vp might be town

Why are you feeling this way?

[VP Baltar]

also i think dwlee does have a point that you're more agreeable as scum

I'm a fucking delight all the time, tyvm

[VP Baltar]

is it bad that im starting to feel like vp might be town

i think these may be bad feelings and i should resist them

any advice

Yes, he's almost for sure scum and has entered 'anyone but me' mode

Huh? How am I saying anyone but me?

[VP Baltar]

but i do think your solving under pressure is p weak and you would be doing more to work on the game itself rather than devoting all your time to playing the social game

I like how all your scum reads on me are based on what you think I SHOULD be doing here.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Prism
I'm sleep deprived!

Let's keep the party rolling fam!

^ @vpb

I don't know what this is supposed to mean. How is me supporting the prism wagon, which I have been on for a long time now, "entering anyone but me" mode?

[VP Baltar]

but on the other hand shuichi has known about the hood the whole time and still thinks vp is scum for similar reasons to what i think,

I am fairly convinced one of you is scum pocketing the other and I have been trying to figure out which way this is going all game.

I think this is a weak spot in my game because I usually have a good spidey sense for areas where this is generally happening in games, but I always have a hard time pinpointing who is pocketing who. The fact that you both act oblivious to this probably doesn't help.

[VP Baltar]

but i do think your solving under pressure is p weak and you would be doing more to work on the game itself rather than devoting all your time to playing the social game

I like how all your scum reads on me are based on what you think I SHOULD be doing here.

hm yes i do tend to scumread people for doing things that i think they are more likely to do as scum than town

last game (when you were town) you criticized me for scumreading you based on tone and vibes when I should be looking for scummy actions lol

Yes, and you're getting closer if you're town here! The problem is you're hunting hypothetical things, rather than things that have happened. You're psychologizing what you think town!vp would do, rather than looking at what I have done in the game.

It's not the right approach, imo, and leads to talking past each other. But you also could be scum and fighting a hypothetical VP is a convenient push. This is why I find the "prism-fire team callout" argument so suspicious. And then of course Suichi parrots you on it in the hood after you posted it, which I absolutely hate.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, I am going to do my morning work, and then address Datisi's request, and then if I am still willful on this cursed site, I will read suichi's interpretation of the hood, which I'm sure will throw me into a rage

[VP Baltar]

Pseudo-final reads

Town
======
skitter30
fireisred
Shuichi
Datisi
Dwlee
Enchant
VP Baltar
Aristeia
======
Scum & scum-adjacent

I'm actually going to head out and hopefully not check my phone 24/7. If I get bored after I get home in the evening/am still alive by then I'll reread Datisi and whip out the question bank.

wait I am buddies with Ari then?

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Prism
I'm sleep deprived!

Let's keep the party rolling fam!

^ @vpb

I don't know what this is supposed to mean. How is me supporting the prism wagon, which I have been on for a long time now, "entering anyone but me" mode?

The tone is egging on the prism vote

Yes, because I support a prism lim and have for awhile. Again, how is that an "anyone but me" mentality? I'm not advocating for lims that are outside my poe and potentially popular.

[VP Baltar]

I think the easiest way for me to document my Datisi read progression without creating a mind numbing wall is to probably go day-by-day since this game started and pull some posts trying to recall my internal reactions to them. Due to not being able to quote the hood thread, I'll do my best to paraphrase here. I considered running a parallel post in the hood, but that honestly seems like it might be a lot of work to do and for Datisi to follow.

Ok, so here we go:

Day 1 - April 13:

Read Status:

High alert skeptic

Spoiler:

Day opens with both Datisi and I kind of poking at each other in the hood that the other is scum. I mention that I'd prefer the hood not to become a toxic distraction like the game I just finished with Nero. Datisi says he wants to do mod meta and then later comes back, saying he plans to treat the hood like a masonry for now. I kind of like this because that last hood was truly exhausting for me. Datisi obviously knows this though, so not really any town points, but I'm keeping an eye on how this develops.

Meanwhile, in the game thread, Datisi first hones in on this, which doesn't strike me as a particularly amazing point and I bring this up in thread at some point I believe.

Shockingly that is actually +town for Enchant because he's not reading the fake PM as scum lmao

i don't get this read bc the sample role pm is unspoiled in the ruleset, i don't know if prism really thinks that scum!enchant isn't gonna like, accidentally glance over it and see that the colour of the role is different than usual

We talk about this read in the hood and some of the stuff Datisi says he doesn't want to post in main because prism is going to like jump all over it and it's half baked. That strikes me a little weird, so I ask Datisi if he's afraid of Prism. He gives a satisfactory enough answer on thought process I let it go as within town range.

Day 2 - April 14:

Read Status:

High alert skeptic

Spoiler:

Datisi opens the day with the whole skitter attack, which does sort of feel like nit picking, but also I am fine with skitter getting pressured here. Internally, I am thinking I should probably watch how this develops to see if Datisi is being usual paranoid or making mountains out of molehills.

assuming the words "dats" and "like" are supposed to be switched around, (1) why do you choose this to say now? (2) why?

Usually in the beginning of games i try to say whatever comes to mind, however slight - doing so tends to generate content, which is nice early on

(You know this ...)

For your second question - i was questioning why my scumpings were 'bad and wrong', i'm not sure what you're objecting to

the "why do you say this now" means "why do you choose to say you dislike my post not right when voting me, but after you have made like 20 filler post in between"

and you still haven't answered what about my post you didn't like (and which one, i made multiple)

re second question: were you expecting anything other than "i'm town"??? like, you said you had "scumpings", you did not explain them at all, the person you're scumpinging told you you're wrong, and *you* are the one asking *them* why you are wrong... like that's not how that's supposed to work i think? you don't get to give zero explanation then ask someone why your thoughts are wrong.

again, what were you expecting from them there?

In the hood, Datisi starts pushing on me to explain why I went after skitter so aggressively at the start of the game. This strikes me as a possible good sign from Datisi, since I was indeed intentionally being aggressive in those interactions. Obviously I think his "Skitt/VPB" theater life read is ridiculous, but tinfoil is good to see from datisi.

We actually get a little scrappy with each other in the hood as I explain. Datisi then presses me hard to give a read of him at that point...which internally I don't love because I feel like he is trying to pump me for information that would help him play against my feelings in the hood. I tell him honestly that I don't have a good read of him at that point and I'm paranoid.

Datisi is pushing skitter in thread, so I decide to try a new tactic to get in Datisi's head: I ask datisi if I'm being unreasonable pushing skitter like I am. My thought here is to see how Datisi interprets some aggressive gameplay, even as he is doing the same. Datisi says he can't really even follow what skitt and I are talking about...so much for that idea.

Day 3 - April 15, morning:

Read Status:

Is there a level above high alert skeptic?

Spoiler:

Datisi is back arguing with Prism and skitter about what seem like a bit of minutiae, but also the whole game kind of feels like this at this point for me.

Just such an arbitrary push to me

it wasn't arbitrary to me. town!skitter pokes at anything that is of interest to her in the early game. scum!skitter hates her life. so one way of finding out which one i am dealing with is trying to see whether her pokes actually make sense and have solving intention behind them or whether they're there because they have to be there. and if i see her "poking" at something that really looks like a nonsense dead end, i'm gonna call it out because that would fit the image of scum!skitter more than town!skitter.

i feel like i have pushed at more miniscule things in my mafia career, but i don't know off the top of my head whether you've SEEN me do that, so i'll chill for now but

this game feels like mud currently in that i want to cool off from my skitter read but i'm not picking up strong scumreads elsewhere but also nobody is actually a strong townread either and fuck this game

i will attempt to get a better foothold in this game and figure out at least vaguely what is happening throughout this irl day

I catch up with Datisi in the hood that I reread his interactions with Prism (I had promised I would), but that I came away feeling slightly TvT in the fight maybe, but it also seemed to be within both of their scum ranges probably...so it didn't really move the needle for me like I had hoped.

Datisi presses me to explain my thought process. I say I think Prism is correct in calling Datisi's points nitpicking, but also I think that nitpiking and tinfoiling CAN point to town Datisi.

Datisi presses me further that if I think nitpicking is town indicative for him, why didn't I say that in thread to Prism...which I kind of hate at the time. I tell Datisi it feels to me like he wants me to stan for him in thread, which is not my fucking job to do. I tell Datisi in post 124 (for hood members reference) That i don't love this. My suspicion hackles are back up. GREAT.

I tell Datisi it feels to me like he is bullying me to hard town read him on the nitpicking paranoia thing I just mentioned could be town, and I hate that. It feels like I'm being coerced. THIS IS ALL BEFORE 730 AM MY TIME.

This ends up being a fairly aggressive fight. Which in hindsight, is maybe good? I'm not sure scum!datisi wants to get into it with me that aggressively on D1.

Day 3 - April 15, still morning but later:

Read Status:

Downgrading to Defcon 2

Spoiler:

This is really where my read starts to turn on Datisi. After that big fight, I wanted a reset and to try again seeing if I could get inside Datisi's head. I decided to ask Datisi his read on Dwlee because they were a topic of discussion in the main thread at the time and I couldn't recall Datisi expressing a lot of opinion there.

Datisi reads their ISO, and we talk a little bit about Fire's point on Dwlee (the random posts selected), and how we both felt about it. I town read Dwlee's intentions out of that post, while Datisi seemed to side more with fire.

But what stands out to me here is we start having a pretty nuanced exchange about each others' interpretations of this event. Datisi presses me to explain things. I press him. It's a very transparent type of interaction where it feels to me like Datisi is putting the walls down a little bit. That's a big pivot from the shit fight just earlier in the day, and technically "inconsistent" with how we were just going at it. In my head, I'm thinking scum!Datisi would maybe be more guarded with me thinking he needed to maintain that consistency. He could be intentionally trying to pacify me here, but that's not the vibe I got at the time, or even now rereading it with some distance.

I can feel myself weakening to Datisi's charms, so I post in the hood that he better be town and sad face it. I can't live with myself if I get duped by Datisi.

Datisi reassures me and kind of reads my mind, saying he doesn't think mania like this from him is within his scum range. This is +town since I was thinking it, but hadn't expressed it recently.

Day 3 - April 15, afternoon:

Read Status:

Shit is Datisi really town here?

Spoiler:

Datisi asks me for a quick reads list, which I provide.

I have prism much more town that Datisi right here, who has had the "lawyery" points debate with Prism. Datisi asks me if his prism read is crazy...which again doesn't seem like something scum!datisi necessarily does here. It's another walls down moment. I say I agree with Datisi that Prism is being pedantic, but she could still be town doing that.

Datisi and I kind of enter a freewheeling talk phase now I would say. We are just posting unguarded points to each other in the hood and talking through how we each feel about them. We are talking about Ari, fire, skitter.

There is one point where I question Datisi about a point he is arguing with skitter over, and that's the "skitter bus early to win" argument. I point out that Datisi has either intentionally or unintentionally misread skitter.. and Datisi kind of admits this. This throws me for a loop for minute because I possibly caught Datisi in a misrep, but ultimately I'm reassured because he just kind of owns it and says "I fucked up" rather than trying to talk through it or semantics argue it with me.

Day 4 - April 16:

Read Status:

Datisi is an Easter bunny

Spoiler:

Nothing much happens this day and I wasn't around much.

Day 5 - April 17:

Read Status:

Ok, I feel pretty comfortable this is town!isti

Spoiler:

Datisi states in thread he's townreading Dwlee because of their Enchant push, and this is like mindmeld with me. I was reading the same thing and thinking to myself "Does Dwlee!scum really push LHF here? That is surely going to backfire."

Datisi coming to this conclusion independently is like a bright ray of sunshine. We talk about this in the hood.

Then Datisi starts dumping a bunch of Flavor mod meta in the thread. And it is very thorough and tinfoily about this being a near duplicate setup. This also is a good reminder that Datisi is doing all this work and Ari is giving Suichi credit in thread for outting the hood to point the similarity of the setup. We wouldn't really know any of that without Datisi, so...

Anyway, by this point I feel very comfortable being open with Datisi in the hood, regardless of whether he still has any paranoia for me or not.

Ok, I think I'm going to stop there because this as very time intensive and I have things I should be doing.

[VP Baltar]

apologies for any typos. I didn't proof read any of this. If something doesn't makes sense, ask and I'll try to interpret my own scrawl.

[VP Baltar]

Weird flex but ok

Huh?

[VP Baltar]

okay, that post more or less checks out

i say more or less because there have been a few instances that vp has expressed paranoia of me in the hood after that post he called the bright ray of sunshine and the exchange afterwards

so i would like those addressed or explained

I was born at night, but not last night!

If you say weird things, it's going to make me paranoid so I ask about them. Me locking you as town has the potential to create blindspots, so I have to make sure I'm being honest with myself when something strikes me weird

[VP Baltar]

did you check in which instances you were suspicious of me before answering that question?

No. Seems irrelevant to the question when I know why I generally am asking questions.

[VP Baltar]

Also kind of tapped on efforting after multiple hours reading for that post. If there is a specific thing you want me to respond to I will though.

[VP Baltar]

it was definitely a "pull out of my ass" answer

That's where I keep the truth I guess

[VP Baltar]

Ari, are you just being catty with me because you're jealous I get all this time with Datisi? Be honest

[VP Baltar]

the reason i asked is because the only instances of you actually doing it are instances where shortly after (in your next post or two), you turn around and call me town - the instance where you were paranoid i was scum gambiting by linking that other game in the hood and then having my buddy enchant claim bunyip (at least i think that was the accusation? i'm not sure), and the instance where you said how i could be scum hiding in the hood while your wagon is building

which is why my takeaway from them was that they were not, like, serious, since in both instances you called me town shortly after

1946 doesn't really make sense if i look at it from that angle, but like, if you didn't check, then idk

Ah I see. Yeah, in that case I was probably more joking with you than expressing some truly deep held paranoia. It acts a bit as a reaction test as well. So like, the thought crosses my mind, I write it off as too tinfoil to be real, but I drop it in thread anyway just to see what happens.

The hiding in the hood was slightly more real of a paranoid thought, because you did kind of drop a vote that took off and then let that simmer for awhile (SURE YOU WERE BUSY IRL). Doesn't overpower the more substantive stuff making me town read you, but you did kind of leave me to my own devices there. It at least makes me question if you actually town read me or not.

[VP Baltar]

After spending hours writing an effort post and then having datisi say "I guess this checks out," I have never better understood Ari's unrequited love.

Datisi, what is your read on me?

[VP Baltar]

how slow do you type for you to spend hours on that post?

It was the reading! That's a lot of game to review and reflect back on what I was thinking at the time

[VP Baltar]

Do y'all take notes or something I don't even know what I was thinking this morning some of the time

This basically. In one ear and out the other.

[VP Baltar]

vp can you put the effort that you put into explaining your datisi progression into solving the game

like case me if thats what you want idc, just... something not about you?

don't get me wrong i did read the post thoroughly and appreciate the clarity it provided but even with the effort that still lands more on the social game side of things

Nah, I'm not putting a higher rate of effort into this game than i am right now. I already spent like WAY too many hours this week on the game. It's fucking absurd for you to sit here and demand a bunch more work from me when you're probably scum here, and if you're not, well....

[VP Baltar]

and i would much prefer that to you putting a bunch of effort into responding to shuichi's case but do that if you must

We will see if I feel up to it. I don't right now.

[VP Baltar]

I have to depart for my VLA now basically. If I get another bout of insomnia tonight, I will read up on these many pages and post, but I am probably not going to be back until Sunday.

I've made my reads and PoE quite clear, and I think limming in there is path to victory. I find it very weird datisi can't read me correctly from our interactions, but such is tinfoil boy.

If I die, had fun playing with yall. Datisi knows my claim.

[VP Baltar]

I was kidding about going to page 100.

I think we have all put lots of effort in today. Time to put the cards on the table

[VP Baltar]

Balter -> dwlee -> ceph

I was saying after prism-town

Flip me and then ceph probably

[VP Baltar]

Does anyone think Fire/Ceph is possible

Maybe. Still in my poe

[VP Baltar]

Balter -> dwlee -> ceph

I was saying after prism-town

Flip me and then ceph probably

Why
Also enjoy your long weekend and your guests

I think dwlee is town and just clear that hood first to reduce WIFOM.

Thank you for the weekend wishes! Going golfing for the first time in 20 years on Saturday....eep!

[VP Baltar]

have a good time baltar

Thanks!

[VP Baltar]

i am tired as hell
i am annoyed that baltar did not respond to the thing i wrote up
i am annoyed at a lot of other different things too but

time to try to pay attention to this game for a bit

I have a few mins right now. I can respond to things that don't involve back reading. What you need specifically?

[VP Baltar]

at the same time, i'm like, not QUITE feeling it. you entered the hood screaming how one mistake and i'm dead. okay, sure, you can argue that i didn't exhibit scumtells this game. but last game, where you were town, you literally went "yeah i'm not reading datisi on d1 at all i can't read him for shit on d1 lol" and all of a sudden i'm supposed to think that this game you're townreading me because... we had similar thoughts on dwlee? all while in a hood?

this is of interest^^

I don't think I was screaming. I made one post, which was half reactions testing. I do feel like my ability to understand differences in your scum and town games increases each time we play, especially now that I had another opportunity to see you play as scum

[VP Baltar]

Your ability to read me does not seem to increase unfortunately, and I guess that's my fault, but also kind of not?

[VP Baltar]

been a long while since i've experienced you scumgame properly (no i'm not counting the multiball because it was multiball because i fucking said so that's why)

i did go though some older games, mainly pyp and bunnies, and like. i'm not finding towntells here the same i did there. if you do flip red this game, at least i'll know what to look out for. i did find some other stuff that i did like, mostly wrt hood interactions that i don't think scum!baltar does, but we'll see

i'm taking a short break then i'll try to see what's the situaaaaation with prism and dwlee and see if i can decide on a vote that way

I may as well talk about the tell I mentioned in the hood as well because who knows, maybe it will help you. I think there is a certain awkwardness to your scum D1 that I find pings my gut. I felt it last game, but I wasn't sure at all and I definitely had a policy of "bin and solve later". This game, I told myself if my gut pings like that on you, I'm just going to trust it. I haven't felt that here, though your seeming inability to read me as town when I've been super transparent in the hood is concerning me.

[VP Baltar]

And yes I know that "tell" is incredibly vague. It's why I said it's half baked and I didn't really want to talk about it. I'm sure I could go back to that game and try to quantify with posts like you'd probably demand, but that's work

[VP Baltar]

I am in hood with fire.

Excuse me?

[VP Baltar]

:/

UNVOTE:
VOTE: baltar

EXCUSE ME

[VP Baltar]

Prolly Suichi though. That's some next level nonsense that wouldn't come from town

[VP Baltar]

Mod said Hood is "Not part of my role".

Did fire say he hooded you?

[VP Baltar]

I guess technically my pm doesn't say neighbor either, so I don't think enchant is right this is the result of a third role. It's just the way the neighbors are

[VP Baltar]

Enchant and fire, did you discuss not claiming?

[VP Baltar]

Eh fair it was you or dwlee since everyone else had basically claimed
But for some reason i thought dwlee was more likely

This strikes me as kind of weird, along with the follow up. It's almost like over explanation for speculation that was happening among scum.

Skitter, why were you even thinking about what kind of investigatives might be in the game?

[VP Baltar]

I just don't know if I would go from thinking "hmm, might be a PT cop here" to "I am going to try to figure out the PT cop" unless I was scum and concerned

[VP Baltar]

Why it was obvious to everyone, but me?

It wasn't obvious to me. I didn't even think about it

[VP Baltar]

I wasnt * trying to figure out the pt cop * either

Like everyone claimed, if said pt cop existed there were only like 2 places if could be.

Keeping track of claims is not an inherently scummy activity

Pedit enchant what's your result?

Yes. I'm not saying it is inherently scummy. Just trying to understand your thought process. I wouldn't have even assumed more investigation power with the bunyip.

[VP Baltar]

Dwlee, do you have unlimited shots?

[VP Baltar]

Hey enchant and fire, are you actually just masons who are trying to hide that fact? If so, please just claim so we can further limit the pool.

[VP Baltar]

So you're not actually masons, just neighbors?

If yes, why are you so trusting of each others alignment to potentially fake masons?

[VP Baltar]

I'm leaning toward a Suichi lim today. He seems like his engagement in the hood has gone down since prism lim started looking more likely, and I think it is not really a town mindset to come in today and think I'm scum after 1v1ing Prism yesterday.

Fire, of course, also sent a test balloon on that idea, but he has probably tried to do a bit more solving yesterday than suichi.

[VP Baltar]

yea true ari said the only two viable partners for prism were VP and shuichi after seeing you 1v1 prism, she must not have had a town mindset

Har har

[VP Baltar]

Ari clearly didn't think I was scum at EOD. You are cherry picking, and you know that shit. I stated very clearly yesterday early on I was willing to die to make people pick between Ari and me. I don't love that you are trying to throw shit from when Ari was saying really dumb paranoid shit and acting like that is where her stances were frozen at.

[VP Baltar]

anyway if Prism actually does flip mafia here and I get shot please force through Cephrir for me tommorrow.

[VP Baltar]

Scum and scum adjacent trying to get me tilted on a Monday morning. LOL

[VP Baltar]

If you're scum, stay mad buddy. Maybe we flip you today instead.

[VP Baltar]

especially bc if shuichi is town and flips today, and then skitter dies tonight, suddenly things get a lot harder if it is scum vp. since dwlee thinks you're town (i think?), and you can prob convince datisi in the hood to vote me instead of you. and i have no idea what enchant thinks. so we might just lose after having the game basically handed to us on d1

This all reads like prepositioning to me and makes me want to kill you now.

Why would you say suichi flips town, and game becomes harder for scum!vp, but also scum!vp is going to blow fire out tomorrow. That doesn't logically follow to me.

Also, tomorrow would not be ELO even if that were true, so still nothing to worry about.

[VP Baltar]

It still isn't even a victory for scum!vp in the situation you're describing though. Are you seriously that paranoid of me?

My play this game is not scum indicative, and Prism's flip further validates my D1 PoE. Like I said, this all reads like prepositioning. The concern about me at this point doesn't make a lot of sense to me from an objective point of view.

[VP Baltar]

This also looks like smear. Why are you reading my play with such malice?

[VP Baltar]

What's been happening in the big hood overnight + today?

Not a lot. Datisi and I talked a little about his suspicions on dwlee, and then i poked enchant/fire along those lines. Suichi has talked less, but I can't say I've been around a ton either since my weekend was full. Datisi also had life stuff happening.

[VP Baltar]

Skitter, how are you feeling about fire? I know you were hard townbinning him yesterday, but I continue to not like his play this game.

[VP Baltar]

Hey enchant and fire, are you actually just masons who are trying to hide that fact? If so, please just claim so we can further limit the pool.

^skitter

[VP Baltar]

This also looks like smear. Why are you reading my play with such malice?

i scumread you, and i don't see much town motivation behind a lot of the things you've done

You aren't looking then.

[VP Baltar]

yea true ari said the only two viable partners for prism were VP and shuichi after seeing you 1v1 prism, she must not have had a town mindset

Like, I have never seen this kind of snarky bullshit from town!fire before. Maybe he is just getting overconfident town ego, which is a bad play given his reads all game, but the attitude strikes me as incredibly off from how I have seen fire play as town.

[VP Baltar]

i have been referred to as relaxed yet sassy

Hmm, I don't remember you being sassy to me. I consider you almost too polite as town

[VP Baltar]

Perhaps you have been hanging around some ruffians

[VP Baltar]

i have been referred to as relaxed yet sassy

Hmm, I don't remember you being sassy to me. I consider you almost too polite as town

cause i thought you were kinda scary before

now i know better

Lol oh. Well see im an old softy.

[VP Baltar]

Anyhow, where is suichi?

[VP Baltar]

if you're trying to get me to change my mind on you, its working, so you'd better stop

I'm pretty sure we just win with a dead suichi, so I can berate you in post game for another bad read on me!

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: suichi

[VP Baltar]

We haven't had any mislims this game.

[VP Baltar]

you weren't already voting me? lol

Do you think waiting for you to play the game and try to actually do some solving before just voting you in a micro is scum indicative?

[VP Baltar]

Ahhhhh i dont know what to do with that

It's a tactic of caught scum.

[VP Baltar]

lim vp?

If you are town, I'm going to laugh that you have now tried to save two scum from death in a micro game because you're OBSESSED with me.

[VP Baltar]

Imagine

[VP Baltar]

(Send suichi to)

Heaven

[VP Baltar]

Ahhhhh i dont know what to do with that

It's a tactic of caught scum.

I feel like most scum are more, like, survivalistic tho
I still probably (?) want to flip him

Idk, I'd be kind of defeatist if my buddy got limmed D1 in a micro. You basically need to survive like 3 or so days after that, which is going to be tough.

[VP Baltar]

VLA before 30 April

Health problems

take care, Enchant

[VP Baltar]

I can't speak to ceph's meta because I don't know it. I just view the "kill me now" stuff as AtE. I almost always ignore it when people do it in games because it is easy to fake.

If he's telling the truth, why would his WIM be at essentially zero as town, but higher than that as scum? I mean, he's saying basically "I'm not going to play if I'm the yeet today." That doesn't seem very protown to me. It also doesn't seem protown to come in after a scum flip that runs against your D1 conception of the game and essentially have the same exact reads. This is, again, why I think ceph and fire don't look particularly great here. They are trying to hang incorrect reads on Ari. One of them is almost certainly scum who think I'm an easy misyeet here....which, good luck!

[VP Baltar]

my reads have changed significantly. i didn't think it was ceph yesterday. i did think it was likely dwlee yesterday. prism flip affected both of those (and dwlee's claim)

notice that you don't even comment how skitter has basically the same reads and the same poe that i do. you don't care about that cause she's not a viable mislim target

You wanted to kill me yesterday. Skitter wanted to kill me yesterday. One of you adjusted your worldview based upon the prism flip. I will allow a 30 minute time limit to solve for X.

[VP Baltar]

Like, you can say you want ceph today, and that's cool, but I get the sense from your posting that if someone would just support my wagon beyond ceph, you'd be all over it.

[VP Baltar]

why are we killing ceph what did ceph do

Ceph spent much of yesterday calling both me and prism bad, but only actually advocating to kill one of us despite a very viable prism lim all day long.

[VP Baltar]

absolutely true bc i think if you're scum and you live through today then you kill skitter and win

You keep saying this and it still makes no sense.

In ELO like that, I think datisi nukes me 10/10 times due to paranoia.

[VP Baltar]

Town:

Datisi
Enchant
Ari
skitter
Dwlee

Null:
Suichi
Prism

Scum:
fire

Quoting quality reads list for posterity and to show how fucking ridiculous it is for anyone to call me scum. I basically called almost all we know about the town pool and almost certainly successfully PoE'd both scum.

Pedit - yeah, I have had to spend most of the game talking about why I'm town because there are at least two town players being highly irrational here.

[VP Baltar]

Why did you have enchant up so high there?

I think that was after his claim and I was taking him at his word there at the time. I don't think bunyip would be a scum role really. Probably need to run that one back through the scumputer though and see if it still comes out true.

[VP Baltar]

saying you can't be scum because you caught both scum. cool cool love the logic there

in case you didn't figure out why thats wrong

in the scenario where you are scum, you are scum, and therefore you cannot claim credit for catching both scum because the other one is not in fact in your poe, it is you

Yeah, except you have corroborating evidence of me correctly townbinning all the town, which would be effectively PoEing myself into a loss if I'm scum.

[VP Baltar]

How dare you

[VP Baltar]

I do think a poe that doesn't help me is outside my scum range, but truth is I'm probably mostly making a bragging rights post for after ceph flips scum

[VP Baltar]

ok so if we flip shuichi and me you're just gonna be like "oh oops everyone left is someone i townbinned! gg guys, guess the last scum must be me!"?

Obv I wouldn't, but you think that makes me look better?

[VP Baltar]

I will say that if it weren't for the claim, Enchant would be higher on the list. And he did have to claim under pressure yesterday. He said he held his shot last night right?

[VP Baltar]

I mean, fine, @vpb if you're town what am i missing?
I think i'm always going to pick fire as town over you which makes me a little nervous abt the ceph-town universe

Hey @vpb in case you missed it

What do you mean what are you missing? Happy to answer your question, just not following whatever you're asking.

[VP Baltar]

for those on the go: i did not spend much of yesterday calling prism bad

I am going from memory, so you could be right....but doesn't that make you look worse?

As I stated in the hood, I would love to have some actual interactions with you, but you seem to have your heels dug in/are quitting, and that isn't easy to work with.

I know for a fact you are wrong I'm scum, so who else are you looking at.

[VP Baltar]

I mean, fine, @vpb if you're town what am i missing?
I think i'm always going to pick fire as town over you which makes me a little nervous abt the ceph-town universe

Hey @vpb in case you missed it

What do you mean what are you missing? Happy to answer your question, just not following whatever you're asking.

i guess i meant: why should i be townreading you (bonus: why should i be scumreading fire)
cuz i scumread you a lot more than i scumread him so i'm kinda concerned that if ceph is town you're gonna get fire flipped tom

I can put some effort toward answering this tomorrow. Been a busy first couple days this week for me after a busy weekend, but I think tomorrow I might actually have time to play the game and do some deeper reviews of some people.

[VP Baltar]

every post this dude makes is full of implicit threats to do what he wants or else it's wild

there's not even an or else you can implement when you're already voting me, if i even cared about scum voting me

Yes, I want you to participate if you're town. This day is heading toward your lim. That's not a threat from me, it's the truth.

Another fact, I'm not scum.

I'm asking you to take these two facts and try to help town.

[VP Baltar]

Alright

[VP Baltar]

Maybe someone else can talk some sense in to you

[VP Baltar]

So that seems off for prism to instead assume he's town bcause he didn't read the sample PM.

i think this is a misinterpretation

Rereading fire right now, and this post strikes me as a weird defense of Prism now that we know her alignment. I left at this point in the day because I thought maybe I was incorrect, but fire stepping in here could have been a buddy defense I suppose.

[VP Baltar]

This seems like a pedantic argument. Anytime we are getting to using single words in quotes, we have probably skewed too far from a good faith interpretation of what's being said.

that sounds like something that sounds nice but doesn't really apply to the current situation

like i don't think the fact that there is one word in quotes there has anything to do with the point being debated

Another case of fire chainsawing for Prism potentially.

[VP Baltar]

4. vp's early aggressive push on skitter is just... hm. kinda reminds me of monkey in the recent panic room game, where he's plausibly hiding behind an exaggerated push "for the sake of pressure" because then you don't have to look genuine while doing it. hm hm. like it feels like it's too... out of the playbook? if that makes any sense? and something that someone would likely want to pull out if they're having trouble fitting in and vibing

5. my hearts not in this one either. shuichi in 222 and voting dwlee soon after. idk if i can really count this one bc i agree with it so it doesn't really feel off but... i can very easily see a world where scum would sheep me on a somewhat under the radar read. and people try to pocket me like an average of 10 times per game so i should probably be wary of that possibility

6. vp 255 just doesn't feel like vp picking on things that i think town vp should genuinely care about picking on

7. 275 mostly noting this for later if we get some flips. but it does feel like dwlee is realigning their reads to be looking for scum in the generally popular scumreads. this isn't an inherently scummy thing to do but it is a potentially significant positioning move

8. datisi giving a teamread of skitter/vp but not wanting to givr any sort of a read on vp individually felt a little off to me

9. actually kinda not loving datisi's push on skitter in general here on a reread, although it didn't bother me the first time. the things he's choosing as reasons don't quite feel like they match the tone of the push? god the more I type here the less i feel like these reads are useful or explained in any coherent way but im already committed

10. dwlee's switch on vp in 410 kinda stands out to me bc vp had just recently started making some more effort-y posts, but I don't think the posts were very good? maybe dwlee disagrees, but if they have tmi that vp is town, i think his posts would look townier than they are

This whole bit of fire's most substantive post in the game is pretty meh to me. First, I find it very weird that first spends so much time talking about me this game without actually voting me. I've said this before I believe. But I also think it is weird he is like handing out scum points for people town reading, or at least not scum reading, me (datisi and dwlee in this case). It strikes me as someone who is trying to get other people to do their dirty work. I believe I pointed this out earlier as well when fire voted me by following datisi on me. It's shading without sticking his neck out or getting into open combat with me.

That kind of makes sense from a fire/prism team combo because it'd be very dumb for both of them to enter a 1 on 1 with me the first day. While that wasn't a direct case of me and Prism fighting, it was made clear pretty early on that one of us was going to die, so I can see fire trying to get others to take the charge on me so he could follow them.

[VP Baltar]

of the louder people i would put it as vp > skitter > prism > ari in scumminess. so prism didn't make the cut. there was like 1 or 2 things i noticed from her but they didn't really do as much for me as what i saw from vp and skitter

couple town lim options before we get to prism uh huh.

[VP Baltar]

Lean scum on fireisred and am willing to vote there.

two main reasons for my play being different here, i think:

1) been gone the last few days so im not feeling very engaged with the thread rn. i think im not alone in feeling like nobody is really obvtown or obvscum here so far, and sifting out the more null reads is something that i don't feel confident in my ability to do when im mostly just popping in and out and not really able to engage with people or see things unfold in real time. shuichi and ari are the only ones i feel particularly towny on, and even there i have some paranoia

2) in combination with that, i know p much everyone in this game already, which is new for me. maybe for some people that makes things easier to read, but for me it makes me more able to see both sides of things and means i take longer to form solid reads

i know self meta is not gonna be very useful when i have nothing to back it up with, but im p sure i would have no difficulty voting someone here as scum, and i would because it obviously looks townier to others for me to do so. as town tho i really have no motivation to rn, at least until tomorrow when ill be back to normal levels of being around

could be an odd post to come from buddies. If their goal was distancing, you'd think fire would fight back more here.

[VP Baltar]

does fire ever take a stance on Prism in this game?

no, not really. my impression of prism so far is that i don't feel like she's someone i can be very confident in a read in either direction, and im not likely to catch her as scum unless its later in the game and looking at more positional stuff. im not gonna pretend to have a solid stance on her yet, but i plan to keep an eye in that direction

this is mealy mouthed for sure. Past VP is smart sometimes to call things out!

[VP Baltar]

i think a town vp would be partner reading me with prism here.

he has everyone as a townread except me, prism, shuichi, and im apparently pocketing shuichi. i haven't really engaged with prism much or talked about her, and when he poked about it i gave a pretty noncommittal answer. but he let that go, which i found strange

maybe he hasn't commented on that explicitly bc he knows prism would object to that idea

And then there was this whole weird line of discussion from fire yesterday. This may also make more sense from a scum fire perspective than a town fire perspective. There is a potential bit of TMI to getting twisted up about me not team reading fire-prism. I still don't understand how a person as town sees this and thinks there is scum motivation from me for not calling a team at that point.

[VP Baltar]

i would prefer there not be a lim on prism, enchant, ari, shuichi. could be scum in there, but i don't want it today. probably would lean away from skitter at this point. really would like vp and i think it's doable. not sure on dwlee and datisi.

Late day attempt to redirect away from prism.

[VP Baltar]

My pool is basically {Baltar, Enchant, Cephrir, Dwlee} unless there is a very good reason to go elsewhere and I am probably still better than Ceph/Dwlee.

Followed by prism immediately starting to support my yeet.

[VP Baltar]

its also funny cause vp thinks that i think i have some big gotcha or something, but i don't. it really was just a passing thought and he's the one who had made it into a big deal by squirming around it and acting weird and being afraid to actually put words to the things that he's implying

This is also fucking bullshit. I did not make the "fire-prism" team thing into a big deal. This was fire's point, and when I asked him to explain it, he made it out like I was clearly scummy for asking and not seeing his viewpoint.

[VP Baltar]

scum want a prism wagon, don't fall for scum propaganda!

of course, this is possibly TSTBS. Would probably need to do a deeper reading here and see what the likelihood Prism was going down here or not. If likely, fire looks less scummy for saying something so openly defensive of her.

[VP Baltar]

i promise to heavily consider prism tomorrow if you still think she's scum by then

umhmmm

[VP Baltar]

why are you zeroing in on this like its the sole thing supporting my vp suspicion

i voted him long before this

It was 5 hours homie

let's goooooo im less sold on skitter now too

VOTE: vp

i think a town vp would be partner reading me with prism here. he has everyone as a townread except me, prism, shuichi, and im apparently pocketing shuichi. i haven't really engaged with prism much or talked about her, and when he poked about it i gave a pretty noncommittal answer. but he let that go, which i found strange

maybe he hasn't commented on that explicitly bc he knows prism would object to that idea

Reupping this as well. I do think this is a potentially relevant point of fire misrepesenting facts in an effort to make his points stronger. He played this off with a joke,

[VP Baltar]

is it bad that im starting to feel like vp might be town

i think these may be bad feelings and i should resist them

any advice

fire, why did you say this at the time? Nothing in your ISO indicates town reading me.

[VP Baltar]

is it bad that im starting to feel like vp might be town

Why are you feeling this way?

your play makes more sense to me knowing the existence of the hood

like it opens up a possible path for vp!town that i just wasn't seeing at all before

i still think that path is less likely but it's there

also i think dwlee does have a point that you're more agreeable as scum

NM, I asked about this apparently.

[VP Baltar]

It's not the right approach, imo, and leads to talking past each other. But you also could be scum and fighting a hypothetical VP is a convenient push. This is why I find the "prism-fire team callout" argument so suspicious. And then of course Suichi parrots you on it in the hood after you posted it, which I absolutely hate.

it did give me pause to see that datisi and prism both said it was a bad point and shuichi said it was a good one

i still think it's not, like, a super bad point, just not a very significant one, so at first when he agreed i was like haha yes

but then i was like hmm this could be meaningful

fire, you have any follow up thought on this now that we know prism was scum?

[VP Baltar]

Ok, that is the D1 stuff I think is relevant to a fire!scum read skitter. I suggest you also ISO him. His play is absolutely not as townie as you make it out to be.

I think the one argument for fire!town here that I would give some credence to is some of his defenses of Prism are blatant, even toward pretty late in the day when I was gone and it seemed like Prism was definitely going down. That is either a scum WAY too committed to their buddy or an oblivious town player.

[VP Baltar]

Prism [5]: VP Baltar, Dwlee99, Prism, Skitter30, Aristeia ---[FADE]
VP Baltar [2]: fireisredsir, Shuichi Saihara
fireisredsir [1]: Datisi

I could have swore Suichi voted prism before EOD yesterday, but clearly my two second glance while off was not thorough! Hmm, so like no bus yesterday? That seems like bad play and possibly indicates that one of fire/suichi really did over commit to a Prism defense.

I need to read Datisi's EOD posting as well too probably.

[VP Baltar]

scum want a prism wagon, don't fall for scum propaganda!

Yeah watch out. Fire, who has not taken any serious stance on prism, really doesn't want this lim.

^lol if fire is scum. EGOVPCOMINGTHROUGH

[VP Baltar]

Bullet points on why I'm town:

- I started the game behaving like lout who crashes the party, smashing things up and making noise. This led to probably predictable heat on me, but I think I'm much more likely to not care about heat on me when I'm town because I know it is not accurate pressuring. I know you hated me coming after you early skitt, but I was acting on my instincts there and it had the potential to pay off had you been scum.
- I've been very transparent about all my reasoning for my actions in this game, even the ones where people don't immediately understand why I'm taking a certain position. A good example of this is my Datisi townread progression. I have all the receipts for why my gut reacts the way it does, and in fairly granular detail. This isn't really a trait of my scum game, imo.
- My play around Prism is not scum indicative. I openly encouraged people to make the lim me or her yesterday. If I'm scum in that scenario, I think I closed the door on someone else being the lim way earlier than would be necessary. The way it played out is dwlee placed the first vote down, and then I quickly followed up an encouraged the Prism wagon. Prism then continued her inexplicable flip of a read on me and OMGUSes me, saying she thinks it should be me or her. To which, I said, cool!

I'm fine going between Baltar/me

same

I think Prism was trying to scare me off or something. Like who would want to 1v1 Prism. Well I'm a moron! Good LUCK.

I then camped my vote on there, even when I went VLA. There's just little about that suggests I was worried about surviving or about Prism not dying. A lot of time passed after that vote where I could have done anything else but have my vote there.

-Last reason I think I should be town read is that my reads have clearly changed over the course of the game, and appear to be sharp, especially my town reads. Let's not forget that if I was scum, I could have kept hammering your own wagon when it was large D1 and tried to power that through as Prism was trying to do. Instead, I said something smelled bad about it since it was so universally popular and I think my defecting played a significant role in its defusal.

[VP Baltar]

That seems like bad play and possibly indicates that one of fire/suichi really did over commit to a Prism defense.

didn't defend her either... idk how you can be so confident im scum without reading any of my posts. kinda feels like you're just happy to push on what everyone else wants to give u

I'm still reading the game. I've tried to engage with you several times. Which of your posts would you like me to look at?

[VP Baltar]

vp is spending hood time preemptively explaining why he will be keeping datisi in the lim pool indefinitely btw

This is an insane misrep

[VP Baltar]

i will haunt anyone who ever votes for datisi

No one talked about voting datisi. What fucking planet are you living on.

[VP Baltar]

vp is spending hood time preemptively explaining why he will be keeping datisi in the lim pool indefinitely btw

This is an insane misrep

Well, what were u talking abt in the hood

Also are we like waitinf for something in particular at thia point?

Datisi said if suichi flips green, the hood is going to be BAD TIMES, to which I agreed and said I had a very brief moment of paranoia (which i had just kept to myself) about what if there is a world where datisi is tricking me here. I also said I pushed those feelings away because that type of paranoia is not helpful and I don't actually have any reason to think datisi is scum.

As far as waiting, I'm ready to end the day and I think that is probably the most humane thing for Suichi. I do believe he isn't having fun, regardless of alignment.

[VP Baltar]

And I did read both your posts fire and skitter. I think we should table that discussion to tomorrow if we need to have it. Right now, I just think suichi flips scum and gg

[VP Baltar]

I mean there's a decent chance i wont be here tomorrow, which is why i'm kinda worried about that universe ...

Dats i think is a lot townier than you, so if ceph is indeed town i think we should do flip u first

If you want to have it out over fire today, I'm happy to do so. I think your town read is a bit naive in the sense that many of the things you're town reading look easily fakeable/or is just kind of disgree with your conclusions, whereas his actions and positioning around prism are concrete actions, but I just don't see myself wanting to bet the farm on my read of fire over suichi. Plus we are going to have to lim suichi at some point.

[VP Baltar]

So anyway, i am here again. Thanks for support.

What's up? While i tried to skim sometimes, i am completely lost and not in mood in rereading, lazy mentality.

Not much has changed. Suichi is sulking.

He would like to die now.

[VP Baltar]

Has anyone ever told you you're kind of a jerk

Yes

[VP Baltar]

i will say that i do not have a good feeling about this yeet

What is bothering you about it?

[VP Baltar]

did anyone have a good response to this when i brought it up, idr

I don't think so. It's a fair point you're making.

We probably should look at how many votes were on the prism wagon at the time of the big case. I do remember it being weird he didn't vote me though at the time either

[VP Baltar]

gg all. Thanks for modding Flavor!

I am very happy with my play this game, even if it tilted a bunch of people at me.

Fire, my boy, one day you will be able to read me

[VP Baltar]

i think i basically have to take a break from mafia bc i literally am not capable of playing to a scum wincon right now

This is the exact scenario that led me to taking a break way back. Too many scum PMs in a row is too exhausting. You should definitely take as much time as you need and come back. The game will be fun again then.

[VP Baltar]

There was a time when scum could have gotten VP B faded, but would have had to commit hard to it, and be okay coming across as super scummy the next day

I think skitter was a safer bet, but yes. Scum should have pile driven someone on day one regardless of how bloody it got and then just pivoted to irrational worries D2 to get anyone else.

Especially with Datisi very busy and Ari possibly able to be guilty into not tunneling prism at one point.

[VP Baltar]

Of course, when I was off those two days, I could have been hammered through possibly as well.

[VP Baltar]

Best news of this game: colors are town indicative.