Mini 2270: Spring Fling!

[Lukewarm]

Actually, I lied. One more.

Does anyone have any idea who Myko wants to die this phase? Because I don't.

He apparently had a scum lean on Enchant Day 1, but shut down the conversation that could have lead to enchant dying here.

He has voiced some amount of concern about Bell's alignment, but he is not out here suggesting that we leave Bell behind.

No, he is just reading along and chiming in often enough to appear active and present.

[Lukewarm]

Currently leaning to pair with fire.

I know that this is a situation where you hold sole power, but I don't think that a single person is currently advocating for that to be your choice lol

[Lukewarm]

Where is Datisi?

[Lukewarm]

i don't know who i want to die this phase tbh

to follow up on this: luke, do you feel that what I've done this phase (or ceph, or probably others too) is significantly different from what myko has done? if so, in what why? and if not, why single out myko for it?

I felt like I saw you working towards an answer.

I remember you commenting on one of my posts. I remember you pushing Dunn about his line of questioning with Andante. You were the other person I saw who caught that Myko would be a dangerous choice for Bell to propose to.

And Cephrir engaged with me on my Myko read, and has expressed opinions on pairing with Andante, and I liked him being contrary on the dunn pushes prior to Dunn's enchant case.

I don't remember where Myko has weighed in on literally any options.*

*Just went back to his iso, and the only takes I am seeing are: He liked dunn's effort. His dream kill is you (fire) but in a wishy washy way.

[Lukewarm]

ya know hilariously enough my advice to Andante to not be seen as scummy is to calm down with the !!! and all caps because people generally think it's fake or ignore it

If andante shows up to a game and starts only posting with correct capitalization and punctuation, I think I would scum read her for it.

Bad advice lol

[Lukewarm]

I mean, how does Bell hold sole power?

He has sole power in who to propose to.

[Lukewarm]

you're over here like "BELL HAS SO MUCH POWER" really?

Maybe reread my post.

The point of my post was that while Bell doesn't have to listen to anyone's suggestion on who to propose to, there is no one advocating the choice he suggested.

[Lukewarm]

how is that the only important thing if i am allegedly being waited on?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13344557

and subsequent discussion were probably the biggest thing to happen?

This is probably a good starring point, yeah

[Lukewarm]

but i think dunn has gotten townier with his enchant case

You don't even know what i will flip, but already assume i flip as mafia?

Even if you flip town, I think that that case makes dunn town

[Lukewarm]

it really looks like bell is only going "who do I stand the best chance at survivng long game with" cause notice how Bell wants nothing to do with me cause all I've done is "IM LEAVING!!!" bell is trying to find the least likely person to leave tbh...

Like, why not have a strong read and just go for it, instead of this game of "I'll say I'll partner with everyone... except andante... test the waters...." everything about this feels like scum, and I'm confused why I'm the only one who sees it

I also don't think that this has happened He named exactly 4 names he was considering (out of 10 options), and they correlate to his stated scum reads.

Like, his start of phase suggestions were :Prism, Lukewarm, fire, Or datasi, which kills Andante, Mala, Ceph, or Dunn respectively.

Which of those, the only one I do not see him scum reading prior is Mala.

Andante. Pretend that you think that Bell is town for a minute. He said that he town reads Prism, and that he scum reads you (and he had both of those reads before he was given the ability to choose, and LONG before you started saying you wanted to leave) - Why in the world would you expect him to then be open to pairing with you.

Like, looking at this part of your argument feels like you are saying "BELL IS REFUSING TO KILL HIS TOWN READ, AND REFUSING TO PAIR UP WITH HIS SCUM READ. SO SCUMMMMYYYY"

[Lukewarm]

I'm dying at that emoji that manifested itself in the middle of my post.

[Lukewarm]

my current things of interest are (1) did andante ever explain why she had such a strong townread on cephrir, (2) how did she come to think her own partner is mafia

1) Not.

2) Shes made a few posts about it - I'll see if I can grab the relevant ones

[Lukewarm]

the new prism came into the PT telling me how to look less scummy... but that they think I'm town.... that is a mafia slot!!!!

AYYYYYY So last time I was maf, and like, we didn't solve in the hood at all, and I kinda liked that sooo I don't plan on posting significantly in the hood, like I'd rather just dump thoughts in the thread, so yeah, but TOWN!!! LET'S GOOOOOO I only accept dance proposals from town! We are endgaming! gg. tryhard mode activated. maf be scared

I know it's the first page but I cant help but talk about this.

Andante states in this post that they were mafia and didn't like posting in hoods not needing to solve. What I can interpret is that they found no real reason to post in hoods, so she decided to write them off for this game.

What I find interesting however, is that I come into the PT and it's literally just Andante trying to strike up any conversation and Prism left her hanging. What I like about this is that I personally can't help but try and socialize(play the game) with whatever topics I'm allowed to post in. It's like I can see the growth of at first thinking the hoods aren't necessary; then thinking hey might as well try and use it since they're town this game and then seeing the frustration of of Prism not posting in the hood.

Now the hood was created on the 18th and I iso'd Prism to check for their interactions with Andante after the hood was created. Didn't really interact with each other. And I kinda forgot where I was going with this cuz I got distracted by the isos. Oh I think what I was looking for was how Prism and Andante interacted in the main thread and not just the PT. Prism and Andante didn't really communicate in the thread, and given Prism's stated annoyance with hoods, I do give props for Andante for trying to do anything at all in the hood. Think about it from scum!Andante perspecitive. You like ignoring hoods as scum, and you get partnered with someone who hates hoods; thats literally a perfect pairing to just ignore it. Now town!Andante however can't help but try to interact. There's that need to solve which is hard to fake.

As silly as this is, I believe Andante is my first townread for the game.


ALSO mala it's way to early to be calling me townie, honestly it shouldn't feel townie because I gave an RVS post and did set up speculation before doing reads like this post. However I didn't have this post yet, so I'm curious what I've done that you felt was townie.

This feels maffy... my partner is mafia. we were the first pair of the game... and I picked a mafia...

Like... "I come into the PT and it's andante talking"

I had 5 posts... 5 whole posts.. 1 was just "wtf? when did firebringer join?"
2 were begging prism to kill me and 2 were just thoughts....

Like, how is that screaming that I'm town....

GINNGIE IS TRING ME FOR BAD REASONS!!!! IT PROBABLY JUST COMES FROM MAFIA. MY PARTNER IS MAFIA. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

whatever, I can at least try.

I want to leave this dance now

[Lukewarm]

ok, has bell ever talked about wanting to yeet prism/ginnie?

Bell mentioned considering pairing with Prism, which would kill Andante. But that is when Andante started saying that she wanted to just leave with Prism, and then Bell kinda walked away from the convo because (from what I gathered) he wanted to see if andante would follow through.

[Lukewarm]

can I leave the dance in this phase or do we have to wait for Bell to do his thing? I'm even more convinced prism was maf

can I leave the dance in this phase

Yeah, you can

I think I'll wait till morning to actually leave though... lol I'm too tired for this... saw a lot of words in that PT... and we called me scummy.. but scummy town, and like nahhhh we're not discussing my playstyle in that PT... hahahhaha ok I'm sleeping before I actually mess this up. I do NOT tr prism slot.

OK. Also, you can't actually leave until the next phase, I just wanted to see whether you were blustering or would actually go through with it and attempt to leave.

Which this exchange left me wondering if Andante would follow through with it. The immediate back down when Dunn said that she could leave right now (despite that not actually being true

[Lukewarm]

I have not gotten the feeling that you dying was currently inevitable, which appears to be the headspace from which you are posting

[Lukewarm]

if bewll isnt going to kill enchant that option is worth considering the next time this phase rolls around. maybe don't elim him so that this is still available?

"don't kill scum so we can kill scum later"

Idk

i dont really want mykonian to die particularly

What a twist, i too.

Just gonna point out again, that enchant townreading myko makes it really hard to believe that this post was ever genuine.

Sure. Enchant I’ll pair up with myko if you don’t start playing the game, providing reads and making a good faith effort.

I planned to yololeave anyway so go ahead?

[Lukewarm]

Who would Bell have picked as a safer option as mafia?

I was probably his safest option tbh

[Lukewarm]

Ginngie, have you realized that swaying to a town read on you would be required for andante to have a chance to survive the next voting phase?

Like, maybe you have, and maybe Andantes transition you makes any kind of sense in the PT.

But, there is a clear need for scum!andante to make that shift, and I feel li feel like you should be aware of that as you look at your pt together

[Lukewarm]

our PT is a masonry, so like dont really care

You know, I would have rested easier if you had said:

"I realized that, but I am still very convinced that she is town here."

But okay.

[Lukewarm]

okay.

[Lukewarm]

Was@gin, not in response to Bell lol

[Lukewarm]

come on shitpost a lil ;~;

Maybe I can try

[Lukewarm]

Spoiler:

[Lukewarm]

LFASDFMADS;FOASDFASDFASDFD BRUH WHERE DID YOU GET THAT IMAGE

Googled "anime girl pushing fingers together"

Added the words, uploaded to imgur, brought it here.

And I did it all for you. You're welcome

[Lukewarm]

LFASDFMADS;FOASDFASDFASDFD BRUH WHERE DID YOU GET THAT IMAGE

Naruto

Also, yes. She is from Naruto

[Lukewarm]

do you wanna be masons >_<

Yay!

I'm a mason now!

[Lukewarm]

I'm not being helpful. I don't think anyone will be surprised that I strongly prefer myko accept Bell. Don't know that there is much more for me to do before he shows up

[Lukewarm]

Currently leaning to pair with fire.

The idea that I as scum would ever put you in a position to have sole power over an elim is questionable at best

allow me to rephrase for emphasis.

bell if i had the power to give someone a gun as any alignment i would never ever give it to you even if i was confirmed town.

this is a pretty good point tbh

bell i would prefer you pair with someone else

@gin

[Lukewarm]

Luke whos town

Bell, Dunn, Fire, Datisi are my confident town reads

[Lukewarm]

Luke on the other hand. Now I need to talk with them

This is not happening tonight sadly. Am attempting to go to sleep, but just keep checking my phone

[Lukewarm]

It's okay Mala, I've stopped being masons with gin, and I will be masons with you now

[Lukewarm]

Luke:8
Mala:6

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Datisi

Are there words to go with this?

[Lukewarm]

Luke whos town

Bell, Dunn, Fire, Datisi are my confident town reads

I would love to know where you have come up with a Datisi townread from. Slot feels empty to me

Very specifically the way that our interaction played out when I was convinced that Datisi and Dunn were paired together. After I got away from the heat of the moment of it, the more I think that that has to be a town datisi reacting to it.

The response, the tone, the energy was a perfect match to the way that datisi reacted to me doing a somewhat similar thing in a prior game. I would be very surprised if Datisi was faking it.

[Lukewarm]

Luke who you voting for right now?

I wanna see a hard stance using

Code: Select all

[v][/v]

This feels condescending, and I shall not be voting for at a minimum of 6 hours out of spite.

Thank you for your understanding

[Lukewarm]

Luke whos town

Bell, Dunn, Fire, Datisi are my confident town reads

I would love to know where you have come up with a Datisi townread from. Slot feels empty to me

Very specifically the way that our interaction played out when I was convinced that Datisi and Dunn were paired together. After I got away from the heat of the moment of it, the more I think that that has to be a town datisi reacting to it.

The response, the tone, the energy was a perfect match to the way that datisi reacted to me doing a somewhat similar thing in a prior game. I would be very surprised if Datisi was faking it.

This is such a hand wave. Can you break it down more?

I already linked directly to that game in an earlier post, but sure. I accept the homework assignment

[Lukewarm]

That was a joke. I thought that the last line and the little emoji in there would let you know - But go off I guess.

[Lukewarm]

Luke whos town

Bell, Dunn, Fire, Datisi are my confident town reads

I would love to know where you have come up with a Datisi townread from. Slot feels empty to me

Very specifically the way that our interaction played out when I was convinced that Datisi and Dunn were paired together. After I got away from the heat of the moment of it, the more I think that that has to be a town datisi reacting to it.

The response, the tone, the energy was a perfect match to the way that datisi reacted to me doing a somewhat similar thing in a prior game. I would be very surprised if Datisi was faking it.

This is such a hand wave. Can you break it down more?

I already linked directly to that game in an earlier post, but sure. I accept the homework assignment

Hmm. Looking back at that game, the response is less 1 to 1 then I thought it would be just remembering. Like, I planned on stip quoting that game and this one. It still has a lot of the same elements:

Immediate OMGUS.
Acting like my case is based on half-truths, which felt like confidence in their own alignment
Scoffing at my question on why scum luke would make the case that he had just called me scum for.
Not caring that my case was distinctly set up as "If x flips scum, I think that Datisi would be a likely partner, and so I want to kill X first" -> A factor that matters more to me now that I am pretty sure that Dunn is town btw.

Spoiler:

Ugh, I have thoughts, and I desperately want to be more strategic in the way that I disseminate my thoughts to the thread, and not just blurt every thought I have out. But I am struggling to find the best way to do it. So, I guess I failed, and I am blurting my thoughts out.

I hated Datisi's 587.

The moment I read it, my brain said that that is a mafia scared of a quick switch in thread perception of their partner. Nora made a case, I started shifting my reads (575), Fire said it was convincing (577). And then Datisi dropped 587.

It bothered me that it didn't call Dunn town, or town case him. It just called Noraa's reasons NAI - pumping breaks on the shift, without committing to calling Dunn town
Then said he was questioning his reads, then said he was gonna do some isos. Sets him up for a new push somewhere else all in one go.
----
So, if we leave out Dunn, and he flips scum, I feel like that town locks Noraa, and makes me more suspicious of Dats. So, I do not want that to be a pair if we are leaving out Dunn.
----

I also didn't like 616, but in a way that is harder for me to put into words.

----

One the other hand, I feel like if Dunn flips town, I feel like scum!Datisi would be less likely to try and pump the breaks on the Dunn read shift. So, I much prefer flipping Dunn over any of the other options (Being me, noraa, Ceph, and Dunn), because he is not one of my town reads, and I think that a scum or a town flip points is enlightening towards both Datisi and Noraa.

Pedit: Datisi just posted a change in stance, and I don't really know who to feel about it :/

i have multiple issues with lukewarm's 625

first, the minor nitpick is that the "he said he's gonna do isos which opens him up for doing a new push" is weird because we're deciding who gets left out. i already had the bases down for who of the gents i could push to get left. i don't need to be doing a weird 180 redoing isos announcement for that.

then, the reasons for my 587 bothering him is ???. yeah, i didn't towncase dunn or call him town. because i had already said i liked some of his posts prior to that and because i was responding to noraa's case of him, which i said i was gonna do. why would i be dropping a towncase there?

but probably my biggest problem is the "and I think that a scum or a town flip points is enlightening towards both Datisi and Noraa" part - like, he spent the entire post talking about how dunn is scum and partnered with me, but IF dunn were to flip town, that would say something about both me and noraa. and it's interesting how it's not explicitly said in the post, but the feel i get is that if dunn greens, that noraa is scum. which like, the fact that he didn't outright say it feels like he doesn't wanna draw attention to that part immediately

actually, now that i type it out, i do feel like my instinct omgus reaction to the shade of our pair is not as good of a point as i first thought, but calling me scum over saying it's not ai for dunn to be talking the way he is feels bad faith and reminds me of lukewarm in that guardians game

not reading the pedits

reminds me of lukewarm in that guardians game

I am curious in what ways this reminds you of the guardians game.

If you are town, I feel like it would be most similar to my partner read on you paired with Chaos in Tris's normal game.

That is actually the interaction that I thought of once I put all of my thoughts out there, and why I started calling my thoughts bad, because it reminded me of when I made a partner case against you in the past and I was wrong.

Unless of course, you were just looking for a way to call me scum by calling it similar to my scum game with you

@luke, it's not about your specific actions, it's about the overall feel your posts give off

like i remember on d1 in guardians, i found some of your posts off because they were pushing logic what was only so slightly wrong and twisted in your favour - i let it go at the time because god knows that being illogical isn't a blanket scumtell but then once you flipped red i looked again and realized i was onto something

and 625 here similarly feels like it's pushing logic that's only slightly wrong but very much serves in your favour (e.g. me not dropping a couter-reason for townreading dunn when i was solely responding to noraa's case on him)

i can go through the guardians to look what this reminded me of if that's needed but like i don't feel like it right now

also i did not remember your partner-read of me/omega from that game at all until you brought it up, and i'm vaguely thinking if that's a cheeky way for trying to divert my attention onto the town-meta you're trying to emulate >_>

@luke, it's not about your specific actions, it's about the overall feel your posts give off

Can I ask what my master plan is in this scenario then? If you are town, and I am scum?

Is my partner Dunn, and I am trying to get him killed today, and set up a partner association on you? If so, why would I ever aim to kill off Dunn here? He is better then me lmao. I would be trying to either keep Nora in the death crosshairs, or possibly even falling on my sword for him if I didn't think we could get Noraa though.

Or am I scum, and Dunn is town, and I am pushing to flip him today, and then literally every singe thing that I said about you being scum becomes completely meaningless because it all hinged on his scum flip, and I even stated that i would town lock you on his flip?

----

Too be clear, I am actvely trying to not partner associate you any more, but your argument that I am scum doing this feels bad.

Which funny enough, is making me lean back towards you being town, because I feel like I typed up this exact message to you in that Tris game.

Or am I scum, and Dunn is town, and I am pushing to flip him today, and then literally every singe thing that I said about you being scum becomes completely meaningless because it all hinged on his scum flip, and I even stated that i would town lock you on his flip?

town locking me means absolutely nothing if it opens the avenue to argue that my dance partner is scum and that you want to eliminate zir. scum!you doesn't lose anything there.

Spoiler:

Mostly cried and had paranoid thoughts about Datisi being a scumbag who's playing with my heart.

I actually had a similar worry during the night phase

But, my thinking requires a confirmation in scum!chaos, so I was holding off voicing the concern until after a chaos flip

Or I guess, until it looked like chaos was gonna flip today.

Why were you thinking Chaos is gonna flip from a naked vote?

Why do you think scum Chaos implies scum Datisi?

You keep implying that since I did not drop my entire case on Chaos all over again, that my vote was "rvs" or "naked" when it is actually a vote that has a whole case behind it in my iso. I even linked it all just now for umlaut. I thought chaos would be the flip today, because he is the scummiest player in the lobby, and looking over the chaos reads coming out of my town reads, I expect the necessary votes are there.

As for Dats, I would point you to his vote on chaos and then his subsequent move off of chaos.

He votes chaos in 230 with a passable fos his direction. At the time, Chaos had 0 votes.

Then he moves his vote to gamma in 270.

In between those two, I scum cased chaos, and voted him in 259. Chaos drops an omgus vote on me in 261. Ari calls out the omgus and votes chaos in 262/265.

270 is a wild time to move away from chaos. If dats was worried about chaos enough to vote him in 230, why would he move the moment actual pressure started building up on the slot?

And his stated reason for moving to gamma? Because gamma called ari town in 252...

Prior to this vote, I cannot find a place where dats called gamma scummy. I also cannot find a place where he calls ari scumm, dats was not calling ari scummy. So a "not explicitly scum read slot" votes another "nonexplicitly scum read slot" and that is enough to abandon the chaos wagon? It kind of looks like Dats put a distance vote, and then was surprised when it turned into a real wagon, and was just looking for a reason to change course.

And you remember our conversation day 1 about lots of people stating suspicions on Chaos, but voting Meg. Well, dats is the one who ended up starting the meg wagon and camped his vote there for the rest of the day. Even when I repeatedly tried to get that voting block to move to chaos.

The fact that he opened up today voting for Umlaut when there were already 2 votes on chaos further feeds in to the worry that dats and chaos are partners

And just searching his iso for mentions of chaos or omega (he refers to the slot as both).

He votes him early, when there is not pressure on the slot.

Then abandons ship the moment pressure actually builds up

And then he never comments on him again. He never calls anything he posts townie. He never calls anything he posts scummy. He just ignores it, even when I was very loudly stating why chaos was the better wagon.

re 1250:

i cannot explain how much this post pains me, because that is literally the exact opposite of how i approach partners in a scumgame - if i jump onto their wagon, i'm staying on it until either they flip, or i'm damn sure there's enough momentum elsewhere for them to not flip. but, in order to not turn this into a self meta argument, because i know how much the public loves those...

270 is a wild time to move away from chaos. If dats was worried about chaos enough to vote him in 230, why would he move the moment actual pressure started building up on the slot?

because i don't care about the "actual pressure" on the slot. unless i know a person and i know their specific town vs scum reactions to getting a lot of pressure (and i've never played with chaos before), other people pressuring a scumread with me doesn't help me. especially that early in the game, my votes do their own thing.

And his stated reason for moving to gamma? Because gamma called ari town in 252...

i have no clue where you're getting this, because this is a flat out lie. my stated reason for voting gamma is 272, which is "i couldn't remember a single solvey thing [he's] done this game". because at that point, he hadn't done anything solvey.

Prior to this vote, I cannot find a place where dats called gamma scummy. I also cannot find a place where he calls ari scumm, dats was not calling ari scummy. So a "not explicitly scum read slot" votes another "nonexplicitly scum read slot" and that is enough to abandon the chaos wagon? It kind of looks like Dats put a distance vote, and then was surprised when it turned into a real wagon, and was just looking for a reason to change course.

i did not call gamma scummy, because he wasn't "being" scummy, like nothing that he's done was scummy - it was the things he hadn't done. and when he posted 267-269, i realized that i've seen gamma post in the game before, but that i couldn't remember anything that he'd done. *that* is what prompted my vote.

again, no clue where you're getting the "non-scumread voted another non-scumread, and that is why dats unvoted" bullshit when i explicitly said two posts later why i was voting gamma, don't put words in my mouth.

and the "datisi tried to distance, but two other people jumped on the wagon, so datisi panicked because of a 3-vote wagon on page 11 and abandoned ship of the distance attepmt"? lmfao.

am i insane for thinking there is something Very Wrong about the fact that luke spent a lot of time yesterday pushing omega, then once he realized that's not happening, he was suddenly a firm believer in meg flipping red, brute forced the wagon through, then the person whose literally only strong read was "datisi is locktown" is dead, and *then* luke is back on omega while making a convoluted case on why i'm a partner when that case is half made up of literal lies and empty assumptions?

am i insane for thinking there is something Very Wrong about the fact that luke spent a lot of time yesterday pushing omega, then once he realized that's not happening, he was suddenly a firm believer in meg flipping red, brute forced the wagon through, then the person whose literally only strong read was "datisi is locktown" is dead, and *then* luke is back on omega while making a convoluted case on why i'm a partner when that case is half made up of literal lies and empty assumptions?

Dats, I specidically said that my case on you 100% hinges on Chaos being scum. If chaos flips town, then my primary worry 100% disappears.

So, I guess my question for you now is, do you think that Chaos flips scum?

i don't particularly care - it still feels like shade, especially as aristeia is currently having similar thoughts, and by the time omega does flip town (if he does), you can come up with any other bullshit to push me if you need.

i have no idea, i was hoping he'd have more contributions today for me to read. before you ask, no, i'm not interested in voting him right now.

my fos on you boils down to "i fucking hate the way you're trying to shade me". i'm not implying anything about your day one because right now i don't even remember all your stances on day one. if you're talking about your sudden shift into screaming that meg had to die right then and there... i again don't really care because i don't think i have to have a full out plan figured out for what scum!luke was doing at any time in the game in order to say that your shade on me is bad.

if you have anything specific to tell me about why i should think you're town here in that gamestate, feel free to point it out.

[Lukewarm]

Uhh. Should have labled the spoiler tags before I submitted.

The first is mine and datisi's interaction around my partner case on him this game. The second is mine and datisi's interactions around my partner case on him in the prior game that I was thinking about.

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Datisi

Are there words to go with this?

They are a capable player and haven't received a fair amount of scrutiny. Try to imagine both mala and Datisi as mafia during day 1 and think about how that might play out.

I guess I am unsure why that pair, who would have had full control over who died between you, me, and noraa, would have killed Noraa. Of the three of us, I feel like zir would have been the easiest to later walk away from (say trading for Bell) in the last phase

[Lukewarm]

Upon reaching deadline I will ask the Mafia to privately submit a pair to eliminate

@Mod, will they kill a pair, or a single player as with the Ydra kill?

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Gin+Andante

[Lukewarm]

Because you are now the only pair where I am suspicious of both slots.

[Lukewarm]

you ain't town for being able to just say you're suspicious of a couple slots. There is no substance here.

Turns out this game has the ability to look back at prior post which players have made

[Lukewarm]

you ain't town for being able to just say you're suspicious of a couple slots. There is no substance here.

Turns out my top goal in this moment is not to convince you that I am town. Sorry to disappoint.

[Lukewarm]

It also becomes a lot easier to convince yourself into bad elims by looking at the pairs. We had our policy elim for this game, lets leave it at that. Vote scum or die.

I think that I managed to disagree with every single word of this post. Which is quite an accomplishment.

I don't think that it is bad to look at pairs.
I don't think that Enchant was a policy elim.
I think that I am voting for scum

[Lukewarm]

Because you are now the only pair where I am suspicious of both slots.

uh what? this is the first I'm hearing you're suspicious of both of us

.... Are either one of you reading my posts?

Fire is my strongest town read atm. Phone posting, but I am roughly at

Fire,
Nora, Ydra, Mala,
Andante, Ceph
-----
Datisi
----

Prism

, one of (myko, enchant), but never both
Dunn

Andantes recent posts are bad.

I am not liking gins or andantes posting this phase.

Okay. Summarize thoughts

I don't want Bell to propose to: Dunn, Datisi, ceph, Fire, Myko, Enchant

That leaves: me, gin, andante

why do I even try...

Hello Andante. I am suspicions of the Prism slot

[Lukewarm]

I made a whole case against Prism. I talked a lot about andante last phase.

I vote the pair.

Both sides of the pair: Surprised Pikachu face.

[Lukewarm]

I made a whole case against Prism. I talked a lot about andante last phase

You know, I think that it is possible that I in fact did not grab every post where I talked about the slots.

[Lukewarm]

I don't know why I have found this interaction as frustrating as I have, but I have. Gonna stop responding the Gin for a bit

[Lukewarm]

Most of my scum read on the Gin slot came from prism. I walked out of day 1 with Prism and Dunn as my strongest scum reads. This included the way that she paired with Andante, but was based largely on the ways that Prism has approached me in this game compared to the ways that she approached me in our other town game and how she approached me in her two scum games against me. From tone, to the way she reacted to suspicion from me. (feel free to sift back through that portion of the game)

And yeah, nothing Ginngie has done has swayed me. I feel like they have had a concerted effort to get andante to town read them, from having a super early and weak town read on her 1561, to doubling down on the town read on Andante when Andante voiced a scum read on her (1725), to volunteering to die to to save Andante from needing to leave (1727), to encouraging "Andante to try their hardest to eliminate" them ([post]1734[/post]).

I find it hard to buy that, based on how little of the game that she was saying that she had read so far (or even the whole game tbh) had such a strong town read on Andante to the point of ready to roll over and die for her. For reference, AFTER she made all of those posts, she declared that she had read up to page 10... (1741) - and then she completely shut me down when I tried to even talk to her about andante

------

Andante has had several takes that I found hard to see coming from someone actively trying to sort the game. From her case on Mala ([post]1347[/post] and 1348) to her case on Bell (1774, and 1779).

Her entire exchange with Dunn when asked to explain her scum read on fire (starting at 1420), and her lack of ever explaining her read on Cephrir despite being asked a lot.

And then finally, the way she approached possibly leaving while scum reading Gin slot

Spoiler: relevent quotes

can I leave the dance in this phase or do we have to wait for Bell to do his thing? I'm even more convinced prism was maf

can I leave the dance in this phase

Yeah, you can

I think I'll wait till morning to actually leave though... lol I'm too tired for this... saw a lot of words in that PT... and we called me scummy.. but scummy town, and like nahhhh we're not discussing my playstyle in that PT... hahahhaha ok I'm sleeping before I actually mess this up. I do NOT tr prism slot.

OK. Also, you can't actually leave until the next phase, I just wanted to see whether you were blustering or would actually go through with it and attempt to leave.

Which this exchange left me wondering if Andante would follow through with it. The immediate back down when Dunn said that she could leave right now (despite that not actually being true

-----

The frustrating thing is that I don't think that they are ever scum together, so one of them is just town who is playing this way. I want to say that it is Gin scum / Andante town mainly because I can see the pocketing make most sense in that direction

[Lukewarm]

Luke whos town

Bell, Dunn, Fire, Datisi are my confident town reads

I would love to know where you have come up with a Datisi townread from. Slot feels empty to me

Very specifically the way that our interaction played out when I was convinced that Datisi and Dunn were paired together. After I got away from the heat of the moment of it, the more I think that that has to be a town datisi reacting to it.

The response, the tone, the energy was a perfect match to the way that datisi reacted to me doing a somewhat similar thing in a prior game. I would be very surprised if Datisi was faking it.

ok i can't do much with that but thanks for answering anyway

I grabbed both exchanges in a later post if you want to look at them yourself

[Lukewarm]

cool, ty. Fresh data!

Datisi: 4,
Dunntisi: 9?
Ginngie: 18
Andante: 20 since Ginngie joined
Myko: 0
Enchant: 1
Luke: 8
Mala: 6
Fireisred 18
cephrir 18

so I've done some neighbourhood games, and I imagine most of you have as well. At least Datisi is aware. I don't think posting reads in a PT is townie, and the times I was scum in a neighbourhood I loved doing it. There was one townie and you could just give them just enough reads that they could see where you were coming from and just enough opposition that they didn't think they were being played. Now, the moment one person starts posting reads there, the other follows, that's just natural. And I could see how some people who are already overflowing in the thread might transfer that to the PT because this game was boring.

Not to say I'm town for this. Enchant just isn't a great discussion partner for mafia, and we ended up discussing videogames and video game music.

I'm not bothered by Andante either. They are spinning their wheels clearly, the game just doesn't have enough input. For people thinking this is some scum ploy, https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88375 gives a view of Andante scum. Completely different. What we are seeing here is Andante going slightly mad with the game, not them being scum. Ginn however apparently exploded in that PT and does a bit to erode the townread I had on prism and ginn in general.

Not as worried by luke either. Esspecially yesterday he seemed a bit searching with his reads and I could see this transfer. Mala however, I tend to struggle to figure out where she exactly stands and this might be scum trying to influence Luke.

Datisi and dunnstral aren't that surprising to me. I could see that Dunn posts a bit more about reads when they were under pressure yesterday, and Dat would follow suit. Even given the awareness of Dat that the PT's are a bit of a minefield, this doesn't seem extraordinary to me.

Cephrir and Fire: That's a lot of posts, and the show Cephrir made of passing their reads on yesterday (were they that certain fire was town, otherwise they could just have done it in the main thread) doesn't sit right with me. Fire also has an amount beyond what I would think reasonable, but based on relative wordiness* (completely subjective) from this analysis I'd think it more likely that Cephrir was the scum of this partnership.

Just boring numbers, but: cephrir, ginngie, mala are people I need to pay more attention to. Which is annoying because by plain reads I'd go with fire, luke, mala, dat, roundabout in that order.

mala posting 6 posts is suspicious, but unconcerned by the 9 of Dunn, 8 from me, or the 18 from fire.

Like, it feels so arbitrary the conclusions that you are pulling from these numbers

[Lukewarm]

Spoiler:

cool, ty. Fresh data!

Datisi: 4,
Dunntisi: 9?
Ginngie: 18
Andante: 20 since Ginngie joined
Myko: 0
Enchant: 1
Luke: 8
Mala: 6
Fireisred 18
cephrir 18

so I've done some neighbourhood games, and I imagine most of you have as well. At least Datisi is aware. I don't think posting reads in a PT is townie, and the times I was scum in a neighbourhood I loved doing it. There was one townie and you could just give them just enough reads that they could see where you were coming from and just enough opposition that they didn't think they were being played. Now, the moment one person starts posting reads there, the other follows, that's just natural. And I could see how some people who are already overflowing in the thread might transfer that to the PT because this game was boring.

Not to say I'm town for this. Enchant just isn't a great discussion partner for mafia, and we ended up discussing videogames and video game music.

I'm not bothered by Andante either. They are spinning their wheels clearly, the game just doesn't have enough input. For people thinking this is some scum ploy, https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88375 gives a view of Andante scum. Completely different. What we are seeing here is Andante going slightly mad with the game, not them being scum. Ginn however apparently exploded in that PT and does a bit to erode the townread I had on prism and ginn in general.

Not as worried by luke either. Esspecially yesterday he seemed a bit searching with his reads and I could see this transfer. Mala however, I tend to struggle to figure out where she exactly stands and this might be scum trying to influence Luke.

Datisi and dunnstral aren't that surprising to me. I could see that Dunn posts a bit more about reads when they were under pressure yesterday, and Dat would follow suit. Even given the awareness of Dat that the PT's are a bit of a minefield, this doesn't seem extraordinary to me.

Cephrir and Fire: That's a lot of posts, and the show Cephrir made of passing their reads on yesterday (were they that certain fire was town, otherwise they could just have done it in the main thread) doesn't sit right with me. Fire also has an amount beyond what I would think reasonable, but based on relative wordiness* (completely subjective) from this analysis I'd think it more likely that Cephrir was the scum of this partnership.

Just boring numbers, but: cephrir, ginngie, mala are people I need to pay more attention to. Which is annoying because by plain reads I'd go with fire, luke, mala, dat, roundabout in that order.

mala posting 6 posts is suspicious, but unconcerned by the 9 of Dunn, 8 from me, or the 18 from fire.

Like, it feels so arbitrary the conclusions that you are pulling from these numbers

Also, I feel like you did not get enough info to make any infrences?

Like, you decided that it made sense that I was talking based off of my play last phase, and you thought Mala was influencing me in that time. But actually, neither one of us used the pt at all during last phase. The last post made in the PT was from before the Ydra flip

[Lukewarm]

Why didn't you post in your dance thread @Luke.

I did at first when it immediately opened up, but then just kinda transitioned to putting everything in the main thread.

[Lukewarm]

Also, Mala kinda peetered out as well. The last couple posts were both me.

[Lukewarm]

I feel like I would have used it a lot more with a different dance partner tbh

[Lukewarm]

mala posting 6 posts is suspicious, but unconcerned by the 9 of Dunn, 8 from me, or the 18 from fire.

Like, it feels so arbitrary the conclusions that you are pulling from these numbers

Mala didn't post much in thread. Dunn did. I don't think they are alike. Does it bother you your dance partner might be scum? I don't think this was a fight worth picking. Why does Mala have more posts there than you? You are solidly more active here as well than she is.

Also Dunn was in the center of attention for a fair bit and I could see him blow off steam in the PT there.

What? Mala doesn't have more posts then me.

I'm saying that your points seem completely arbitrary and don't make sense to me. Both on the surface of looking at the numbers, nor at looking at what you are saying.

You concluded that you thought Mala might be trying to influence me, but she has completely ghosted that PT.

You concluded that Datisi making 4 posts about reads would be scummy, except for the fact that Dunn started. Which feels contrary to my expectations for both of those players. Datisi in particular, I would have expected to be very active about reads in the PT regardless of alignment - the 4 is fairly surprisingly low, and the only reason I don't find that particularly scummy is that he was away from the main thread as well due to real life.

You lead in the post by saying once one person starts posting, you would expect the other to "Now, the moment one person starts posting reads there, the other follows, that's just natural."

But when you see Cephrir and Fire being approximately equal, you don't seem to stop and wonder who started the exchange to ramp up to that number.

[Lukewarm]

Bell and Cephrir, remember when you said that Myko was town for pairing with Enchant because he was planning to leave with Enchant. Does the fact that he actually transitioned to a town read on him, and was not actually going to leave with Enchant influence that at all?

[Lukewarm]

so out of all that information I posted, about everybody, you spend 5 posts hardcore defending mala.

You are the first person to have a good read on her then, I'd say. Enlighten us.

I am not defending Mala.

I am trying to make sense of your positioning, and struggling to do so.

[Lukewarm]

Bell and Cephrir, remember when you said that Myko was town for pairing with Enchant because he was planning to leave with Enchant. Does the fact that he actually transitioned to a town read on him, and was not actually going to leave with Enchant influence that at all?

Did he transition to a town read on him after being paired up and was planning to kill them initially?

I am not sure I am following, and possibly you misunderstood what I was saying.

I started arguing that Myko was scummy last phase, and when doing so I felt like you and ceph shut it down because Myko paired with Enchant and appeared to be planning to leave with Enchant.

Spoiler:

Mostly because their entire persentation of themselves has an air of conceit and contempt and Enchant is an obvious example of the type of player myko would murder if they’re trying to appear consistent?

I guess to explain my simple assumption.
@lukewarm.
If Myko comes into a game and introduces themselves as someone who does not like the color red.
And then a thing that is red in color appears.
I would expect myko not to like the red part of the thing that appears.

They’ve been surprisingly mercurial about that though.

Spoiler:

I am vaguely against Bell proposing to myko, because I want to kill myko and enchant tomorrow.

idk i kinda think myko is town

There have been a lot of posts that I didn't like.

Want to talk about why you think they are town?

sure. i think the main reason was his plan to pair with enchant, firstly at all (enchant is probably the worst partner scum could ask for if he's town), and secondly apparently with the intention of suiciding on him. i think i liked at least one post for content reasons recently. ill look for that

I am vaguely against Bell proposing to myko, because I want to kill myko and enchant tomorrow.

idk i kinda think myko is town

There have been a lot of posts that I didn't like.

Want to talk about why you think they are town?

sure. i think the main reason was his plan to pair with enchant, firstly at all (enchant is probably the worst partner scum could ask for if he's town), and secondly apparently with the intention of suiciding on him. i think i liked at least one post for content reasons recently. ill look for that

What made you think that he was intending to leave with Enchant? What I saw was him refuse to answer the question.

i think something he said a while ago made me think this, not his recent question dodge.

I am now saying that it is clear that he was not planning to do that, and asking if that influences either of your reads on him

[Lukewarm]

In response to post 2138. That is quite frankly not how conversations work, and just a lot of misrep of what I am doing. You could make comments about my strongest scum read, and if I thought that the comments were inconsistent or false, I would stop and question you on them. Because part of this game is me trying to figure out if you, Myko, are presenting Real Thoughts. So I gotta engage with the thoughts you present, regardless of my read on the person you are talking about.

My read on Mala is Null at best. And when I try to slot together a team in my brain, she is regularly taking up that third slot.

This is not the first time that I have gotten the feeling that you are trying to position yourself as an outside commentator for this game, which deflects conversations away from being about you.

[Lukewarm]

What were their reasons for pairing with enchant?

My running theory is that he knew his VLA was coming up that kept him out of thread for the back half of Day 1, and needed to get paired off before that happened.

Of the eligible ladies left at the time (Fire, Datisi, Mala, Enchant), Enchant was the easiest person to brute force a pairing with (other then pairing with a partner, if one was avaliable but that would have led to the partner questioned on why they would take him so suddenly)

[Lukewarm]

My top SRs are myko/Luke/Datisi right now.. ama lets go, what do you want to know?

Why are you not currently voting for any of these names?

[Lukewarm]

My top SRs are myko/Luke/Datisi right now.. ama lets go, what do you want to know?

Why are you not currently voting for any of these names?

What happened to your fire scum read?

[Lukewarm]

My top SRs are myko/Luke/Datisi right now.. ama lets go, what do you want to know?

Why are you not currently voting for any of these names?

What happened to your fire scum read?

it's still there, I'm choosing to ignore it though, the pt has a lot of me quoting stuff fire says and telling ginggie I SR fire.... fun facts!!!

Would you say that Gin talked you down from your fire scum read? Or talk you into those three scum reads?

[Lukewarm]

Basically, I am interested in which of those scum reads originated from you and which of them originated from you

[Lukewarm]

Bill, I don't think you can vote both Dasani and Al Dente at the same time

[Lukewarm]

It’s just another way pointing out who I suspect of being mafia.

Was mainly joking about misspelling Datisi

[Lukewarm]

so wait why is ginnie and andante having the most votes??

Spoiler:

Most of my scum read on the Gin slot came from prism. I walked out of day 1 with Prism and Dunn as my strongest scum reads. This included the way that she paired with Andante, but was based largely on the ways that Prism has approached me in this game compared to the ways that she approached me in our other town game and how she approached me in her two scum games against me. From tone, to the way she reacted to suspicion from me. (feel free to sift back through that portion of the game)

And yeah, nothing Ginngie has done has swayed me. I feel like they have had a concerted effort to get andante to town read them, from having a super early and weak town read on her 1561, to doubling down on the town read on Andante when Andante voiced a scum read on her (1725), to volunteering to die to to save Andante from needing to leave (1727), to encouraging "Andante to try their hardest to eliminate" them ([post]1734[/post]).

I find it hard to buy that, based on how little of the game that she was saying that she had read so far (or even the whole game tbh) had such a strong town read on Andante to the point of ready to roll over and die for her. For reference, AFTER she made all of those posts, she declared that she had read up to page 10... (1741) - and then she completely shut me down when I tried to even talk to her about andante

------

Andante has had several takes that I found hard to see coming from someone actively trying to sort the game. From her case on Mala ([post]1347[/post] and 1348) to her case on Bell (1774, and 1779).

Her entire exchange with Dunn when asked to explain her scum read on fire (starting at 1420), and her lack of ever explaining her read on Cephrir despite being asked a lot.

And then finally, the way she approached possibly leaving while scum reading Gin slot

Spoiler: relevent quotes

can I leave the dance in this phase or do we have to wait for Bell to do his thing? I'm even more convinced prism was maf

can I leave the dance in this phase

Yeah, you can

I think I'll wait till morning to actually leave though... lol I'm too tired for this... saw a lot of words in that PT... and we called me scummy.. but scummy town, and like nahhhh we're not discussing my playstyle in that PT... hahahhaha ok I'm sleeping before I actually mess this up. I do NOT tr prism slot.

OK. Also, you can't actually leave until the next phase, I just wanted to see whether you were blustering or would actually go through with it and attempt to leave.

Which this exchange left me wondering if Andante would follow through with it. The immediate back down when Dunn said that she could leave right now (despite that not actually being true

[/sp/oiler]

-----

The frustrating thing is that I don't think that they are ever scum together, so one of them is just town who is playing this way. I want to say that it is Gin scum / Andante town mainly because I can see the pocketing make most sense in that direction

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Luke+mala

:sad face:

his scumread on myko. this was what triggered me to think this in the first place. i thought 1693 was strange bc i didn't think it was a point that only applied to myko

I feel like you boiled it down to "I don't know who Myko wants to kill = Myko scum," which was only a part of my issue with the Myko slot. And even with that, it was less that he didn't have an answer, and more that I saw no evidence that he was in anyway trying to come up with one.

the dunn scumread when they were two of the more likely to be left behind (along with noraa). the scumread went away once that phase was over.

This isn't even true? I walked into the next phase still trying to kill Dunn. Until Dunn turned my read on him around.

the datisi townread. i think this read is p weakly supported and idk why he would be townreading datisi here. the progression is also questionable, with having him in null (and less towny than 6 other names) in 867, but in 2032 and 2042 he says that the strong townread came from the post sequence starting around 625, which is well before 867. the scum benefit is that he now strongly townreads dunn and so it's a read that he can more safely commit to making since he's likely not going to vote that pairing

I actually kinda get this one tbh, because my read on datisi was shifting without me really talking about it in thread, and largely without input from Datisi. He just wasn't the topic of discussion.

My scum leanings for Datisi during Day 1 were largely partner based with Dunn. I had him in his own category in that reads list in 867 because I thought that he was likely town if Dunn was town, and was more worried about him if Dunn was scum. Which put him as unsorted on his own.

But even as our exchange happened, I noticed feelings of deja vu

Which funny enough, is making me lean back towards you being town, because I feel like I typed up this exact message to you in that Tris game.

But in the moment, I decided to just focus on killing Dunn, and then coming back to sort Datisi afterwards.

Once I got some time between when I was originally so convinced that he was partnered with scum, and was looking back on that interaction, those similarities mattered more to me, and my read on Datisi started leaning town. Which was happening out the thread, and just more as I thought about it looking back, but this was why I didn't want Datisi and Dunn to be voted out together, and prefered for Dunn to die independently in 1337.

Then, once my read on Dunn changed to confidently town, the main reason I had become so worried about him day 1 went away too, and that shift in my thinking were happening while Datisi was not even in thread himself.

[Lukewarm]

I find a simple bit of irony in in the fact that the two people voting me, are:

Ginngie, who is trying to argue that I am completely unable to "continue to support my reads with the new content that is generated"
and
Fire, who concluded that "it's hard to criticize his reads and progressions, bc i think luke kind of player who as scum will be careful to make sure that they are all well-justified and supported through his play"

[Lukewarm]

Dude, did you want me to go line by line on why your thing was a misrep?

Spoiler:

mala posting 6 posts is suspicious, but unconcerned by the 9 of Dunn, 8 from me, or the 18 from fire.

Like, it feels so arbitrary the conclusions that you are pulling from these numbers

This is defending Mala.

No, this was commenting that your system did not make sense to me, and your conclusions seemed arbitrary given the premise you started with.

Spoiler:

cool, ty. Fresh data!

Datisi: 4,
Dunntisi: 9?
Ginngie: 18
Andante: 20 since Ginngie joined
Myko: 0
Enchant: 1
Luke: 8
Mala: 6
Fireisred 18
cephrir 18

so I've done some neighbourhood games, and I imagine most of you have as well. At least Datisi is aware. I don't think posting reads in a PT is townie, and the times I was scum in a neighbourhood I loved doing it. There was one townie and you could just give them just enough reads that they could see where you were coming from and just enough opposition that they didn't think they were being played. Now, the moment one person starts posting reads there, the other follows, that's just natural. And I could see how some people who are already overflowing in the thread might transfer that to the PT because this game was boring.

Not to say I'm town for this. Enchant just isn't a great discussion partner for mafia, and we ended up discussing videogames and video game music.

I'm not bothered by Andante either. They are spinning their wheels clearly, the game just doesn't have enough input. For people thinking this is some scum ploy, https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88375 gives a view of Andante scum. Completely different. What we are seeing here is Andante going slightly mad with the game, not them being scum. Ginn however apparently exploded in that PT and does a bit to erode the townread I had on prism and ginn in general.

Not as worried by luke either. Esspecially yesterday he seemed a bit searching with his reads and I could see this transfer. Mala however, I tend to struggle to figure out where she exactly stands and this might be scum trying to influence Luke.

Datisi and dunnstral aren't that surprising to me. I could see that Dunn posts a bit more about reads when they were under pressure yesterday, and Dat would follow suit. Even given the awareness of Dat that the PT's are a bit of a minefield, this doesn't seem extraordinary to me.

Cephrir and Fire: That's a lot of posts, and the show Cephrir made of passing their reads on yesterday (were they that certain fire was town, otherwise they could just have done it in the main thread) doesn't sit right with me. Fire also has an amount beyond what I would think reasonable, but based on relative wordiness* (completely subjective) from this analysis I'd think it more likely that Cephrir was the scum of this partnership.

Just boring numbers, but: cephrir, ginngie, mala are people I need to pay more attention to. Which is annoying because by plain reads I'd go with fire, luke, mala, dat, roundabout in that order.

mala posting 6 posts is suspicious, but unconcerned by the 9 of Dunn, 8 from me, or the 18 from fire.

Like, it feels so arbitrary the conclusions that you are pulling from these numbers

Also, I feel like you did not get enough info to make any infrences?

Like, you decided that it made sense that I was talking based off of my play last phase, and you thought Mala was influencing me in that time. But actually, neither one of us used the pt at all during last phase. The last post made in the PT was from before the Ydra flip

This is only about Mala.

This was me providing information to the discussion that only I had which was directly contrary to the narrative that you made - I was highlighting that your conclusions were arbitraty because you did not actually ask any follow up questions to see if they made any sense.

Also, Mala kinda peetered out as well. The last couple posts were both me.

Explaining for Mala that you really didn't post that much in the thread.

I don't even know what you were saying here, because this was not even about Mala. Bell asked me why I did not use the hood more, and I said that Mala kinda stopped posting - the last two posts in a row were me. She left me on read the moment Ydra flipped.

I feel like I would have used it a lot more with a different dance partner tbh

"it'd be so natural to use the PT, it's not evidence"

Once again, this isn't about Mala - its about me. Because Bell has direct experience of me being in hoods with him (Shakespere and Web of Lies), and was asking me about my use of the hood.

What? Mala doesn't have more posts then me.

I'm saying that your points seem completely arbitrary and don't make sense to me. Both on the surface of looking at the numbers, nor at looking at what you are saying.

You concluded that you thought Mala might be trying to influence me, but she has completely ghosted that PT.

You concluded that Datisi making 4 posts about reads would be scummy, except for the fact that Dunn started. Which feels contrary to my expectations for both of those players. Datisi in particular, I would have expected to be very active about reads in the PT regardless of alignment - the 4 is fairly surprisingly low, and the only reason I don't find that particularly scummy is that he was away from the main thread as well due to real life.

You lead in the post by saying once one person starts posting, you would expect the other to "Now, the moment one person starts posting reads there, the other follows, that's just natural."

But when you see Cephrir and Fire being approximately equal, you don't seem to stop and wonder who started the exchange to ramp up to that number.

First thing on your mind? MALA. And then the comparison with Dunn, of course. And the comparison with Ceph and fire. But what's the thing you start with? Mala.

I led in with correcting the factually wrong statement that you made, when you said Mala had more post then me. Yes, I correct factually wrong statements

Like, you are framing me:
-Trying to make sense of your posts / pointing out the arbitrary nature of them
-Providing information about our hood that no one else has, because it seemed relevant to the conclusions you were drawing
-Me answering Bell's questions about why I had so few posts in the hood.
-Me correcting a factually incorrect statement that you made


As me defending Mala.

[Lukewarm]

Fixing spoiler tags

Dude, did you want me to go line by line on why your thing was a misrep?

Spoiler:

mala posting 6 posts is suspicious, but unconcerned by the 9 of Dunn, 8 from me, or the 18 from fire.

Like, it feels so arbitrary the conclusions that you are pulling from these numbers

This is defending Mala.

No, this was commenting that your system did not make sense to me, and your conclusions seemed arbitrary given the premise you started with.

Spoiler:

cool, ty. Fresh data!

Datisi: 4,
Dunntisi: 9?
Ginngie: 18
Andante: 20 since Ginngie joined
Myko: 0
Enchant: 1
Luke: 8
Mala: 6
Fireisred 18
cephrir 18

so I've done some neighbourhood games, and I imagine most of you have as well. At least Datisi is aware. I don't think posting reads in a PT is townie, and the times I was scum in a neighbourhood I loved doing it. There was one townie and you could just give them just enough reads that they could see where you were coming from and just enough opposition that they didn't think they were being played. Now, the moment one person starts posting reads there, the other follows, that's just natural. And I could see how some people who are already overflowing in the thread might transfer that to the PT because this game was boring.

Not to say I'm town for this. Enchant just isn't a great discussion partner for mafia, and we ended up discussing videogames and video game music.

I'm not bothered by Andante either. They are spinning their wheels clearly, the game just doesn't have enough input. For people thinking this is some scum ploy, https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88375 gives a view of Andante scum. Completely different. What we are seeing here is Andante going slightly mad with the game, not them being scum. Ginn however apparently exploded in that PT and does a bit to erode the townread I had on prism and ginn in general.

Not as worried by luke either. Esspecially yesterday he seemed a bit searching with his reads and I could see this transfer. Mala however, I tend to struggle to figure out where she exactly stands and this might be scum trying to influence Luke.

Datisi and dunnstral aren't that surprising to me. I could see that Dunn posts a bit more about reads when they were under pressure yesterday, and Dat would follow suit. Even given the awareness of Dat that the PT's are a bit of a minefield, this doesn't seem extraordinary to me.

Cephrir and Fire: That's a lot of posts, and the show Cephrir made of passing their reads on yesterday (were they that certain fire was town, otherwise they could just have done it in the main thread) doesn't sit right with me. Fire also has an amount beyond what I would think reasonable, but based on relative wordiness* (completely subjective) from this analysis I'd think it more likely that Cephrir was the scum of this partnership.

Just boring numbers, but: cephrir, ginngie, mala are people I need to pay more attention to. Which is annoying because by plain reads I'd go with fire, luke, mala, dat, roundabout in that order.[/spo/iler]

mala posting 6 posts is suspicious, but unconcerned by the 9 of Dunn, 8 from me, or the 18 from fire.

Like, it feels so arbitrary the conclusions that you are pulling from these numbers

Also, I feel like you did not get enough info to make any infrences?

Like, you decided that it made sense that I was talking based off of my play last phase, and you thought Mala was influencing me in that time. But actually, neither one of us used the pt at all during last phase. The last post made in the PT was from before the Ydra flip

This is only about Mala.

This was me providing information to the discussion that only I had which was directly contrary to the narrative that you made - I was highlighting that your conclusions were arbitraty because you did not actually ask any follow up questions to see if they made any sense.

Also, Mala kinda peetered out as well. The last couple posts were both me.

Explaining for Mala that you really didn't post that much in the thread.

I don't even know what you were saying here, because this was not even about Mala. Bell asked me why I did not use the hood more, and I said that Mala kinda stopped posting - the last two posts in a row were me. She left me on read the moment Ydra flipped.

I feel like I would have used it a lot more with a different dance partner tbh

"it'd be so natural to use the PT, it's not evidence"

Once again, this isn't about Mala - its about me. Because Bell has direct experience of me being in hoods with him (Shakespere and Web of Lies), and was asking me about my use of the hood.

What? Mala doesn't have more posts then me.

I'm saying that your points seem completely arbitrary and don't make sense to me. Both on the surface of looking at the numbers, nor at looking at what you are saying.

You concluded that you thought Mala might be trying to influence me, but she has completely ghosted that PT.

You concluded that Datisi making 4 posts about reads would be scummy, except for the fact that Dunn started. Which feels contrary to my expectations for both of those players. Datisi in particular, I would have expected to be very active about reads in the PT regardless of alignment - the 4 is fairly surprisingly low, and the only reason I don't find that particularly scummy is that he was away from the main thread as well due to real life.

You lead in the post by saying once one person starts posting, you would expect the other to "Now, the moment one person starts posting reads there, the other follows, that's just natural."

But when you see Cephrir and Fire being approximately equal, you don't seem to stop and wonder who started the exchange to ramp up to that number.

First thing on your mind? MALA. And then the comparison with Dunn, of course. And the comparison with Ceph and fire. But what's the thing you start with? Mala.

I led in with correcting the factually wrong statement that you made, when you said Mala had more post then me. Yes, I correct factually wrong statements

Like, you are framing me:
-Trying to make sense of your posts / pointing out the arbitrary nature of them
-Providing information about our hood that no one else has, because it seemed relevant to the conclusions you were drawing
-Me answering Bell's questions about why I had so few posts in the hood.
-Me correcting a factually incorrect statement that you made


As me defending Mala.[/quote]

[Lukewarm]

Like, you are framing me:
-Trying to make sense of your posts / pointing out the arbitrary nature of them
-Providing information about our hood that no one else has, because it seemed relevant to the conclusions you were drawing
-Me answering Bell's questions about why I had so few posts in the hood.
-Me correcting a factually incorrect statement that you made


As me defending Mala.

And yes. I am going to do all of these things regardless of my read on Mala

[Lukewarm]

Speaking of which, I am almost certain that Mala is scum now. After not using our PT for a while, she suddenly started posting in there again. Quite specifically trying to talk me out of voting for andante/ginngie, and trying to get me to shift to voting Datisi/Dunn. As such, I don't see the need to keep defending myself, and we can be voted out

VOTE: Luke/Mala

If Mala flips scum, always kill Andante/Ginngie next - and never flip datisi/Dunn.

It was done in such a way that I am less clear which of Andante/Ginngie would be Mala's partner, so it should be the full pair that is flipped, and not done via dance partner trading imo.

Myko's posts have been heavy misreps, and I would like for the next person who needs a new dance partner to take his spot with Bell.

Thanks

[Lukewarm]

It was done in such a way that I am less clear which of Andante/Ginngie would be Mala's partner, so it should be the full pair that is flipped, and not done via dance partner trading imo.

If I had to guess based on the PT, I would say Andante - There was an angle that I can picture building up to letting the next person pair with andante, and still killing Ginngie. That was not explicit, but I could see it.

This would sit with the fact that Ginngie has been actively trying vote me out, while Andante has called me scummy, apparently agreed with Ginngies points, but isn't voting with Ginngie (because doing so now, would also kill Mala)

[Lukewarm]

Wait so are you leaving the dance

Currently just voting, so that I still have time to talk to people this irl day - see if there are any questions, but yes. I plan to leave

[Lukewarm]

Did you have any questions? lol

[Lukewarm]

It was done in such a way that I am less clear which of Andante/Ginngie would be Mala's partner, so it should be the full pair that is flipped, and not done via dance partner trading imo.

If I had to guess based on the PT, I would say Andante - There was an angle that I can picture building up to letting the next person pair with andante, and still killing Ginngie. That was not explicit, but I could see it.

This would sit with the fact that Ginngie has been actively trying vote me out, while Andante has called me scummy, apparently agreed with Ginngies points, but isn't voting with Ginngie (because doing so now, would also kill Mala)

I am worried that this sounds more sure then I am.

GTH, I would say Andante for these reasons. But, I could see it being Ginngie

[Lukewarm]

Actually, Maybe I am just delaying doing it because I get cold feet on resting it all on my read of Mala. But fuck it.

Vote: Leave Dance with Mala

[Lukewarm]

Mostly I just have objections because I feel like you’re obvtown Luke.
But I got of got that you were pretty fed up with all the pressure being put your way and you tend to become impulsive when that happens.
I think it’s something you should work on tbh, because I think it’s a weakness.

I kinda agree on the impulsivity thing.

But, I got those messages from Mala yesterday, before I got pressure, and so my read on her wrt to this formed before that happened. Just fyi.

My original plan was to keep chatting with her to try and get a better feel for which of Andante/Gin were her partner, and hopefully get her to give more on her other partner - which this is being cut short. Because defending myself seemed like it would take effort, and I didn't really want to keep putting in that effort knowing that my plan was to die this phase anyways.

[Lukewarm]

I guess I’d just like to hear how confident you are in your scum reads.

If Mala flips scum, I am extremely confident that one of Andante/Ginngie are scum with her.

If Mala flips town, then I am back down to just scum reading both slots, but not to that same level.

Myko I am pretty confident in regardless tbh. Higher then the A/G pairing with a town mala, but lower then the two with a scum mala.

I don't think that his positioning comes from town.

I also noticed early on that Myko made a comment that could have been aimed to diffuse the me v ginngie 1v1 - which I get if his partners are Andante/Mala lol.

[Lukewarm]

I really wish Pooky would show up soon to give us a flip.

[Lukewarm]

You were 3 votes away from an elim, the last vote by probably your prime scum read (me!) and instead of defending and wondering how awkward scum might be about bussing mala, who you also suspect, you go out in a blaze of glory, just about one day into the phase.

To be clear, Mala became my strongest scum read of the Player List after her recent posts in the PT. So, in fact, she is my prime scum read atm

[Lukewarm]

And you are welcome to make the argument that you would not have put a third vote on me if Mala were your partner, If you'd like

[Lukewarm]

and instead of defending

Just boring numbers, but: cephrir, ginngie,

mala

are people I need to pay more attention to. Which is annoying because by plain reads I'd go with fire, luke,

mala

, dat, roundabout in that order.

I would like to point out that Myko both claimed to think that his numbers thing looked bad for mala, and had mala in his scum reads prior to that post.

But seems frustrated that I am killing Mala, instead of focusing on defending myself and in turn saving that slot.

[Lukewarm]

Gg everyone.

Town, thank you for ignoring me

[Lukewarm]

Enchant and myko both looked way townier to me in their hood then they did in the main thread. And like, I see why myko started Town reading them

[Lukewarm]

Subject: Spring Fling Departed PT

Alright mate, I'm sorry you feel this way. If it helps I suspect I've been as annoyed with you as you've been with me

Been thinking about this post. And I guess I am surprised. I have not been particularly annoyed with Myko this game, just been suspicious of him.

I did get frustrated with Prism day 1, and then I did get frustrated with Ginngie at the start of this phase - which I shouldn't have let either of those get to me, but I didn't have any issues with Myko on an emotional level.

So, I guess I'll leave it here for the post game:

I'm sorry if I gave you that impression, and I'm sorry if I really did annoy you this game.