Mini Normal 2271 - Game Over

[Flavor Leaf]

I dont think semantic disagreements is going to be useful in sorting FL. Instead of being upset in how they are playing, ask yourselves: is this player an informed party? Is what they are doing reasonable from the point of view of being aware of the wolf team?

I see a lot of playstyle/personaliry clashing going on right now and that isn't useful.

it's only being made semantic by FL. pay attention.

Again, you are wrong. It is directly pulled from Roden's posts that the semantics are there.

Roden doesnt believe that I've answered them, but I've gone back and forth left and right talking about the read, they just dont see the answer, which i can see coming from town considering theyre the type to overreact personally to being scum read no matter how small.

Also, them calling out one dismissal as if it were happening everywhere and nothing but, which again, is factually not true.

[Flavor Leaf]

It's probably exactly 1 of the 2 of you are scum. And the more I just let you guys ramble on a lotta nothing's, the more I get to read off of you. I'm just sitting back eating popcorn now.

It's probably exactly 1 of the 2 of you are scum. And the more I just let you guys ramble on a lotta nothing's, the more I get to read off of you. I'm just sitting back eating popcorn now.

It's probably exactly 1 of the 2 of you are scum. And the more I just let you guys ramble on a lotta nothing's, the more I get to read off of you. I'm just sitting back eating popcorn now.

It's probably exactly 1 of the 2 of you are scum. And the more I just let you guys ramble on a lotta nothing's, the more I get to read off of you. I'm just sitting back eating popcorn now.

It's probably exactly 1 of the 2 of you are scum. And the more I just let you guys ramble on a lotta nothing's, the more I get to read off of you. I'm just sitting back eating popcorn now.

misrep this

This is true. I do believe exactly 1 of the 2 of you are scum.

I think it's more likely you. Could I be wrong on your slot? Sure.

Could I be wrong and both of you are town? Sure. I don't believe I am.

I don't believe you're partners. That's too obvious.

[Flavor Leaf]

i also think you could be town, this is not something i have solidified

you know I'm town

[Flavor Leaf]

Can we reset this gamestate
We're in too deep on this circular conversation..

Human and I actually havent gone back and forth too much directly, tbh.

To be fair, he only knows how to discredit which is an issue from both scum and town alignments on their part, but it's not ineffective.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like I really don't get how people are finding scorpious town and its annoying no one will actually explain it because I really think their thoughts are bullshit.

Your scum case on Scorpious is just something I've noticed is more of his personality, because it's exactly how I felt about him in my last game with them where we were both town. I was even pushing Scorp Day 4-5 as a scum partner to my main push, but then started to flip, and strong town read them. Thought there was an insane TvS, entire game did, and I became the only one really pushing the two of them, that I was even pushing as TvS for a while, that they might actually be TvT, and that ended up being correct.

So I understand your scorp push of him being seemingly away from the game, but that's how he was there too. He even went so far as actively having Vanilla Town Apathy.

[Flavor Leaf]

Can we reset this gamestate
We're in too deep on this circular conversation..

Human and I actually havent gone back and forth too much directly, tbh.

To be fair, he only knows how to discredit which is an issue from both scum and town alignments on their part, but it's not ineffective.

lmao projection

You keep using that word; I don't think you know what it means.

[Flavor Leaf]

Can we reset this gamestate
We're in too deep on this circular conversation..

okay why is FL town?

the last time i tried to engage FL he called me obsessed and continued calling me human even though i told him to call me HEM or Monkey — which is hilarious — but he is trying to get a ruse out of me here so I can have an emotional reaction and call those reactions scum.

I was making a Means Girl reference.

[Flavor Leaf]

You've discredited yourself from having no base. I'm just having fun trolling you at this point.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm pretty sure Koopa's town cased me multiple times.

[Flavor Leaf]

We keep talking about me pocketing Koopa, but Koopa been done pocketed me too long ago. I was defending them when they were voting me even.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Koopa - I can see a case for each of the 3 pushers as town, and I can see a case for each of the 3 pushers as scum. Based on wagonomics, I don't believe all of NK15, Human, Roden are town.

There is likely 1 scum in there. I am starting to see NK15 as town, though.

This means you and I are in cohesion with 2 out of 3 of them, I just don't which 2.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't believe in wagonomics though

I've made way too many solves using wagonomics and VCA to agree with this, and abused too much VCA as scum.

It's just scum do think about that stuff.

I see why you can make a case for going against it through the "you cant tell what scum are doing.", but frankly, yeah, you can.

[Flavor Leaf]

my initial posts with aggression

i dont believe I have had a single instance of aggression this game

sarcasm and dry posts, sure, no aggression

[Flavor Leaf]

you stating you've seen the possibiity of all town on me is using wagonomics, by the way.

But nah, scum woulda been biting more, and id have had more momentum on me if they were all town.

[Flavor Leaf]

You did have some aggression FL.. I saw it in your tone when I voted you.

I see how you can see it as aggression, but if anything that's a reason you started to see me as town.

If anything, I might've got annoyed you popped your gum with the claim so easily for something so pointless.

[Flavor Leaf]

Roden - have you caught wolf FL before?

Nobody in this game has caught me as scum on site before. JacksonVirgo 'might' have, and they have seen me as scum and scum read me correctly before, but idk if they 'caught' me. I mightve won all those games.

Malakittens I met in person in 2014 at a meetup, so she might've caught me as scum.

I haven't played much with many of the others in this game. Scorpious a few here and there, and then NK15 I've played in some of his modded games.

But yeah.

[Flavor Leaf]

So take in that thought of me playing this way with a playerlist who isn't that familiar with me.

Does this seem like the playstyle that would work if I were scum here, Roden?

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm obviously a player who likes control, does this playstyle come across as a smart one to play with tons of players that don't have familiarity with me as scum?

[Flavor Leaf]

Catchup done, the FL/HEM shitfight was honestly tiring to read.

Exactly what I stated was the purpose by HEM before HEM and I went

[Flavor Leaf]

For what it’s worth, if Malakittens is scum, she’s played in a way where I’m likely not gonna see it, but I did mention that Koala’ing possibility.

I’m the one that would get Koala’d, though, so I will not be able to see her as scum even if she was, if that makes sense.

That being said, my gut still reads her as town, knowing my gut could be wrong. I feel like Malakittens has had similar thoughts around the same time i had them, like the Koopa town read.

I also felt like people were pushing her for non scummy reasons early, and while I see a case on Malakittens, I don’t think it’s the most likely scenario nor do i think they’re the reasons people are pushing her.

[Flavor Leaf]

The catchup nested within spoilers is performative to me,

i was trying to elicit some sort of interaction with italiano, but they stone walled.


Fine, you convinced me.

Human/Italiano/Roden + 1 lesser active player way too early scum prediction, and also all based individually as well.

In that order for me.

Now you need to explain why you classified the roden read here as individually.

I am still waiting for an answer!

Way past Roden. Don’t be dense, there was a large 1v1 between them and I even

[Flavor Leaf]

That also implies Flavor Leaf was genuinely accurate on Scorpious' meta so there's that, although this kind of explaination would have been useful for me to reach the conclusion myself.

You kept asking for people's Scorpious' read....

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t think it’s the most likely scenario nor do i think they’re the reasons people are pushing her.

why don't you think it's the most likely scenario?

do you think it's town!Malakittens mason baiting just to get you specifically in a safer position? this is ego talk. i dont see how town!Mala would risk outing masons just to save you, maybe you won't see this.

Nah, I can see me town reading a ScumMalakittens. But I do gut town read Mala for the reason's I've stated.

I'm not gonna vote her, though, at the expense of her flipping scum and me looking bad for it.

I got burnt too many times not trusting my gut in that last game.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t think it’s the most likely scenario nor do i think they’re the reasons people are pushing her.

why don't you think it's the most likely scenario?

do you think it's town!Malakittens mason baiting just to get you specifically in a safer position? this is ego talk. i dont see how town!Mala would risk outing masons just to save you, maybe you won't see this.

If she is scum, it feels like too obvious of a pocket, but I see the benefits of doing so.

But I see the benefits of her play as town to koala too.

For me, she just hasn't done anything that is inherently scummy, most of the things that she's getting pushed for I don't see as scummy.

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh really, I had no idea April was Leaf. Interesting. I remember I played a couple games with April, I think. I remember scumreading her early because of tone and interactions, but she eventually ended up in my townbin over the course of the game and I ended up being right.

Even though it’s an alt, I’m assuming the underlying foundation of how Leaf plays is the same. Correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s interesting to me.

Eh, I play every game differently depending on my mood and playerlist.

But there's some similarities, for sure.

I did use alts for different playstyles and test theory, though.

Pretentious
Morality
Boonskiies
Rick Dalton

are also some of the accounts I played on a decent amount of games.

Flavor Leaf is my standard just play without trying any type of playstyle.

[Flavor Leaf]

I didn't particularly like Roden's reaction to FL and I thought their argument Flavor wasn't really being clear with their reads felt very off given the state of the game so far. But I'm not sure mafia Roden has any way to react the way they did - the push was long past and it felt like essentially picking a fight which suddenly put them in contention again as possible mafia. If you're mafia, best just to ignore and move on from that I think.

I'm actually starting to come back around to ScumRoden. I do think they had reason to do so because it was actively helping fuel the Flavor Leaf wagon, and it was attempting to bring me down into the overall gamestate feel as scum to people.

Human I can see in a very similar vain as it was when I pushed you last game, so I see a town world with them.

And NK15 was also pushing me because of the same thing Roden was, so it feels kind of like Roden piggybacked onto NK15's push to keep the momentum going.

VOTE: Roden

Is that a good enough reason for you, Roden?

[Flavor Leaf]

I think I might be town reading Human now, idk. I'll sit on it, but today's a new day, I had a day to sit on it.

I really think it's Roden now, and I don't think I would have if I still thought Human was more likely scum than town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Hello all. I wanted to play this game so badly with you all that I replaced in. I need to read a bit so bear with me.

You'll see that I already pocketed you. I was hoping you were gonna be the one coming into the slot when the mod said they had a pre existing replacement lined up.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Koopa - I think the sheer fact that Jackson voted you here is townie in itself.

Like you are going back and forth a lot, something I also do, and besides the PR claim empowerment to 1v1 which felt more ego emotion based anyway, you've had a generally townie mindset, and scum probably wouldnt try to push you the way that JV did. They might try to push you, but not by just voting like that, if that makes sense.

[Flavor Leaf]

I didn't particularly like Roden's reaction to FL and I thought their argument Flavor wasn't really being clear with their reads felt very off given the state of the game so far. But I'm not sure mafia Roden has any way to react the way they did - the push was long past and it felt like essentially picking a fight which suddenly put them in contention again as possible mafia. If you're mafia, best just to ignore and move on from that I think.

I'm actually starting to come back around to ScumRoden. I do think they had reason to do so because it was actively helping fuel the Flavor Leaf wagon, and it was attempting to bring me down into the overall gamestate feel as scum to people.

Human I can see in a very similar vain as it was when I pushed you last game, so I see a town world with them.

And NK15 was also pushing me because of the same thing Roden was, so it feels kind of like Roden piggybacked onto NK15's push to keep the momentum going.

VOTE: Roden

Is that a good enough reason for you, Roden?

I can see that, will take a fuller ISO look in due time to see where I stand on it. Presuming one or two mafia were on your wagon if you're town, do you reckon it's likely one of them has been TR'ing you/held back as a misdirect or to distance themselves from it? I'd expect so.

Yep. I stated when I did my reads list that there was a scum likely in my town reads.

I will say I'm liking so much of what youve been saying the past page, I'm getting paranoid im getting pocketed.

[Flavor Leaf]

Human's transition on FL feels very weak and very much like a careful climbdown given where they were at before.

VOTE: Humaneatingmonkeys

damn, see I like this too, because I felt like Human might have just been playing a way to get me to town read him.

[Flavor Leaf]

It feels like too much of a mindmeld to be coming from scum. Feels more like town coming from the same spot.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Koopa - I think the sheer fact that Jackson voted you here is townie in itself.

Like you are going back and forth a lot, something I also do, and besides the PR claim empowerment to 1v1 which felt more ego emotion based anyway, you've had a generally townie mindset, and scum probably wouldnt try to push you the way that JV did. They might try to push you, but not by just voting like that, if that makes sense.

They're in my PoE and it is concerning that the timing of the vote coincided with the flip on my read.
If they don't want to explain their reasoning - I can only default to the context clues to draw from for the reasoning.
"Reaction test" this far into the game when I am the 2nd largest poster with many substantial posts is just bogus as hell or they are simply not playing the game if town - both unacceptable.

While I do agree with Malcolm, they can do more, I don't see why it's concerning that it came with your flip.

I feel like it came BECAUSE of your flip, which makes sense. You flip flopped. I've had plenty of townies vote me after doing what you did.

[Flavor Leaf]

Alright, all caught up.

I fundamentally really think Flavor is town here although I'm aware I could of course be getting manipulated. Need to ask - would the current state of the game be beneficial to FL if they were mafia, given how they've approached it? And I think the answer is no. The D1 conflicts/arguments here should give us plenty of info going forward and it's beneficial to mafia to fundamentally keep as much info as they can hidden from town.

I also think we'd have seen more people directly batting for FL when they were under suspicion and starting to become the main wagon. The way it's died down now indicates to me someone in mafia (whether HEM or Roden) didn't have their heart in it and didn't think it was going to go anywhere in the end.

I didn't particularly like Roden's reaction to FL and I thought their argument Flavor wasn't really being clear with their reads felt very off given the state of the game so far. But I'm not sure mafia Roden has any way to react the way they did - the push was long past and it felt like essentially picking a fight which suddenly put them in contention again as possible mafia. If you're mafia, best just to ignore and move on from that I think.

Koopa is very much towning it up now, not necessarily agreed with everything they've said at times but their logic/approach seems a lot more solid now as the game goes on.

I mean there's more info as the game goes on so naturally thats the trajectory

I know, but sometimes D1 can be a slog where there's a lot of incorrect misinfo going around and where mafia coast by if all the focus is on one player. So far I think we have a lot more useful info on what likely possible combos are/combos we can rule out very much directly through FL's play. I don't think FL's play is particularly beneficial for mafia if they're scum so far.

I believe after flips happen it will be more noticeable for sure.

I do see a world where my Italiano town read is incorrect based on my judgement being clouded by their town reading on me, but again, a paranoia piece.

[Flavor Leaf]

Andresvmb replaces Saladman27

Mathblade replaces Facebones

Please welcome them!

Catching up now gonna see what the major events are.

Anyone wanna point me at some place they want a comment on?

I got one for you, let me go find it.

I want you to see my case on Humaneating prior to the big exchanges that happened yesterday. I've since changed my mind, but i wanna see if it's more because Human choice of diffusing the situation was a good scum play.

[Flavor Leaf]

VC 1.13

With 13 players, it takes 7 to make a decision. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-04-25 00:30:00).

VC

Flavor Leaf [3]:

humaneatingmonkey [265], Roden [598], Not Known 15 [620]

koopashell [2]:

Scorpious [457], ItalianoVD [484]

Not Known 15 [1]:

JacksonVirgo [138]

ItalianoVD [1]:

KittyTacky [364]

Scorpious [1]:

koopashell [625]

humaneatingmonkey [1]:

Flavor Leaf [683]

Not voting [4]:

MalcolmTucker, Facebones, Saladman27, Malakittens [561]

mod notes

Replacing Saladman27. There's someone who asked to be on the replace list so they'll have priority for a few hours

Boon wagon looks stale.

To those of you on it why is Boon scum? Or is it left over RVS?

Nah, not RVS, they wanted blood.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Math/Andres - before you read if not too late, just have this in mind during the game. Want to know from an outside source thoughts because I've cooled off on Human since.

You know what, I can see Human doing that to an Italiano town in that scenario if Koopa is also town.

It's almost like hiding behind my Italiano scum read, but here's the thing. Hmm.

Human acted in a way that I thought Italiano would if Italiano was scum, but Italiano just sitting back and letting the wagon happen because what else are they gonna do is a little townie.

OMGUS, I choose you! (even though there is multiple reasons that it isnt actually OMGUS.

VOTE: Humaneating

1: Their initial reason for suspicion was based on facts from a misunderstanding, and only after it was cleared up, did they choose to vote.
2: This happens after Koopa and I both voted onto Italiano, meaning if Koopa/FL is T/T, then scum would definitely need to start breaking this up. This is especially true of Malakittens is also town.
3: Their push is just kinda forced in a way that looks to break up a townblock. Like they came into it with the plan of eventually pushing me, and once we got cleared up and went to diffuse, they chose to vote. That was almost like a desperate act to make sure that the heat of Monk vs FL kept up, and I'm willing to give them the fire.

[Flavor Leaf]

But if Human is town, then they still don't ultimately know that you're mafia either despite their strong stance on it - I don't think it's particularly helpful to just assert that anyone who doesn't share their view of the game is being stupid, if that makes sense.

It made me think when I tunneled you last time, you felt like I was scum as well, and I was getting a lot of similar feeling vibes. Which also made me feel scum was near the situation, my energy was just focused incorrectly.

[Flavor Leaf]

Andresvmb replaces Saladman27

Mathblade replaces Facebones

Please welcome them!

Catching up now gonna see what the major events are.

Anyone wanna point me at some place they want a comment on?

I got one for you, let me go find it.

I want you to see my case on Humaneating prior to the big exchanges that happened yesterday. I've since changed my mind, but i wanna see if it's more because Human choice of diffusing the situation was a good scum play.

K give me a bit to find it.

I got it for you in my last post. Took me a bit to find it, wouldnt have you as a replacement go find it yourself

[Flavor Leaf]

At work can’t give detail nor do I want to currently

this is the exact thing Roden and I spent forever arguing about yesterday, don't do it Koopa

[Flavor Leaf]

That's what I was afraid of. That Italiano being scum in that situation.

[Flavor Leaf]

Human acted in a way that I thought Italiano would if Italiano was scum, but Italiano just sitting back and letting the wagon happen because what else are they gonna do is a little townie.

Looking at this section, I'm worried again that Human just did the part that I thought Italiano was gonna do, then I town read Italiano, and today Human did the same thing, and it worked to get the town read feel again.

Then the Roden sheep by Italiano.

I want to believe Italiano and I are just on similar pages, but the paranoia.

[Flavor Leaf]

In that scenario, Roden would be town to me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Human acted in a way that I thought Italiano would if Italiano was scum, but Italiano just sitting back and letting the wagon happen because what else are they gonna do is a little townie.

Looking at this section, I'm worried again that Human just did the part that I thought Italiano was gonna do, then I town read Italiano, and today Human did the same thing, and it worked to get the town read feel again.

Then the Roden sheep by Italiano.

I want to believe Italiano and I are just on similar pages, but the paranoia.

I am a bit confused…I didn’t write any of that in 901. Can you restate?

oh, it wasn't directed at you, i was reminded of it because the quote was there is all.

[Flavor Leaf]

Human acted in a way that I thought Italiano would if Italiano was scum, but Italiano just sitting back and letting the wagon happen because what else are they gonna do is a little townie.

Looking at this section, I'm worried again that Human just did the part that I thought Italiano was gonna do, then I town read Italiano, and today Human did the same thing, and it worked to get the town read feel again.

Then the Roden sheep by Italiano.

I want to believe Italiano and I are just on similar pages, but the paranoia.

I am a bit confused…I didn’t write any of that in 901. Can you restate?

oh, it wasn't directed at you, i was reminded of it because the quote was there is all.

it was quoted from my quote in the quote you quoted.

It's part of my words, not yours, I just highlighted the section, so it made it look like you said it.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Malcolm - this was where I was at earlier, it's changed since then, but I was feeling Kitty too.

Actually, I can't shake the feeling that NK15 chose to bring that up because scum wanted more pressure on me because I'm pushing Human. Moving Nk15 down to Orange, and Roden up to Neutral. While the other Neutral's I have little to read on, it's not the same with Roden, there's a couple more layers, not much, and it's more just because I'm torn. Neutrals could have a scum in them.

Malakittens
Scorpious
ItalianoVD

MalcolmTucker
JacksonVirgo
Koopashell

Facebones
Saladman27
Roden

KittyTacky

Not Known 15

humaneatingmonkey

No order within tiers.

[Flavor Leaf]

My way too early Day 1 reads prediction Round 2:

Human/Kitty/Italiano

@Flavor - If I am way off, I feel shifting a few things around could get to an eventual correct path, so if I'm alive in a few day phases, i will come back to this when more info is in game

[Flavor Leaf]

I am intensely frustrated when a player pushes bad mafia theory to push me as wolf when it is simply stuff part of my playstyle, and thus i largely have 0 argument against it.

then do what you told Roden to do and move past it. No point pushing back with an emotion side. JV's just playing the game, and he's not as deep as some other players, so I think it makes sense a townie who's only been seeing bits and pieces and playing when theyre near and present could see you as scum.

We've gone fast, I don't blame JV for not posting as much, however I am used to JV's playstyle a bit more, but I generally just feel that they're in an acceptable spot at the current moment based on it being Day 1 still. JV alone isnt going to be able to fade you or anything, so you arent in trouble. it's 1 vote.

[Flavor Leaf]

I need to take a proper look at Italiano, been unsure what to make of them so far.

atm, if I had to pick one of my town reads that have infiltrated, that's where it is, but there's a reason I put them in the back. Even if they are scum, they did get me to town read them, so for the chance they are town, I'll trust in my town read for a bit longer.

[Flavor Leaf]

I still think JV should be critically analyzed before endgame if they stay alive.

this is true for every slot. We aren't here solving the game Day 1. Scum manipulate gamestate and position accordingly. It's okay to be completely off day 1, it's the thought process that should be shown.

[Flavor Leaf]

NK15 obviously ignored the entire Roden vs FL discussion because it was exactly what that was.

I think I'm happy with my Roden vote, especially now that it can't be argued I don't have a reason since I stated my reasons.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yet again, just because you dont like the reason, doesnt mean it's not a reason.

Feels like scum who doesnt think they should be getting wagon'd.

Italiano thinks youre scummy, and Koopa had you 2nd to the lowest, yet you're still just trying to discredit me.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm giving more than the majority of the players in this game.

this isn't a shade on anyone, I've just been super active today and yesterday is all.

hard not to when you have don corleone and the most cunning manipulator plastered all over your id only to end up being the first lim

Oh the time I had that and ended up being a D1 lim for almost every game for a year. I don’t miss it

yeah, it's been on me since 2019, i think those with the ability just forgot to take it off.

[Flavor Leaf]

Roden - have you caught wolf FL before?

Nobody in this game has caught me as scum on site before. JacksonVirgo 'might' have, and they have seen me as scum and scum read me correctly before, but idk if they 'caught' me. I mightve won all those games.

Malakittens I met in person in 2014 at a meetup, so she might've caught me as scum.

I haven't played much with many of the others in this game. Scorpious a few here and there, and then NK15 I've played in some of his modded games.

But yeah.

U have definitely changed play styles since my haitus, but I do remember being able to read you transparently

Tbt when we met tho

I believe I was like 19 then, so just overall changed most likely. 8 years ago, wow.

I could see you still being able to read me well. I think even back then you were still more likely to read me more transparently than others.

[Flavor Leaf]

Someone please support Koopa before they completely meltdown.

Has anyone here ever seen Koopa over reacting so much? Like, is it playstyle?

I do not recognize anyone here from MU other than a vague memory of Mathblade, so doubtful.

I've seen multiple people over here from MU that I've learned how to tell just by feeling out the playstyle.

I think it's helped me read you whereas a lot of others here are gonna think your scummy for it.

[Flavor Leaf]

Mala, koopa, malcolm, scorpious, JV are my stronger town reads right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

Roden - have you caught wolf FL before?

Nobody in this game has caught me as scum on site before. JacksonVirgo 'might' have, and they have seen me as scum and scum read me correctly before, but idk if they 'caught' me. I mightve won all those games.

Malakittens I met in person in 2014 at a meetup, so she might've caught me as scum.

I haven't played much with many of the others in this game. Scorpious a few here and there, and then NK15 I've played in some of his modded games.

But yeah.

U have definitely changed play styles since my haitus, but I do remember being able to read you transparently

Tbt when we met tho

I believe I was like 19 then, so just overall changed most likely. 8 years ago, wow.

I could see you still being able to read me well. I think even back then you were still more likely to read me more transparently than others.

In regards to this I have caught FL scum before but tend to lean towards scumreading him by default because he’s good. The fact Boon town pings me means he’s probably town so I am interested in the arguments to see if it’s a scum push or misguided Townie.

Caught and correctly scum reading are much different, but yeah probably caught at one point or another.

[Flavor Leaf]

One of Human, NK, or Roden.

At one point, Koopa risked it all to push me, but diffused the situation, so I think that was an emotional town outbreak rather than a scum one.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am willing to go back to Human, just like sitting on Roden for now, and if Italiano is town, then I think if Roden was also town, there would be merit in scum fueling that wagon more.

Koopa had Roden listed as their 2nd lowest, but went on Italiano, so there is also potential threat for Roden to be faded, but there's a wagon on Malakittens.

[Flavor Leaf]

koopashell [2]: Scorpious [457], JacksonVirgo [820]

if there's an all town wagon on town, it's this one.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am willing to go back to Human, just like sitting on Roden for now, and if Italiano is town, then I think if Roden was also town, there would be merit in scum fueling that wagon more.

Koopa had Roden listed as their 2nd lowest, but went on Italiano, so there is also potential threat for Roden to be faded, but there's a wagon on Malakittens.

What do you think of Human Italiano Malcolm with a side of forced Koopa town?

I don't think Malcolm and Italiano both play up the buddying with me to the extent they would both be doing if they were scum. I can see a world with ScumMalcolm doing it, but I don't think it's the world we're living in.

[Flavor Leaf]

What are people’s reads on Mathblade?

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t think anyones brought that up

[Flavor Leaf]

One of Human, NK, or Roden.

At one point, Koopa risked it all to push me, but diffused the situation, so I think that was an emotional town outbreak rather than a scum one.

You’re confident they pulled back based on calming down and not strategy?

Not fully, but it’s enough not to push them for day 1 for me at least.

I generally re analyze a lot as the days go on

[Flavor Leaf]

I will say this.

I have done this exact thing as scum. I mis read the pressure I was under and claimed way too fast.

I had it in mind to distract. Now, if this in fact town play. Why?
In my noob scum eyes in the past. I wanted to at least pull out a CC since, again, I was misreading the amount of pressure that was on me and had resigned to being limmed and wanted to take one with me..

All that being said I’m off to find this crumb.

I did call them doing it out as scummy right after, for what it’s worth

[Flavor Leaf]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13334831

That’s page 25, i do think there is scum energy going against me somewhere in there.

Which could lean me human town again

[Flavor Leaf]

FL, again if you're town, why won't you accept that you were just downright scummy? If you were intentionally bullshitting, I'm right that you were. I'm right that you have been using an insincere pattern of playstyle (that you said the best way to play D1). The base of your case against me was assumptions you made about my vote on you that were untrue.

nk15 is probably town. koopa is probably town. I'm mindmelding with Roden here. I don't think there's necessarily scum on your wagon.

dont understand this. dont believe i acted like i didnt understand the push, just called it baseless.

[Flavor Leaf]

The catchup nested within spoilers is performative to me,

i was trying to elicit some sort of interaction with italiano, but they stone walled.


Fine, you convinced me.

Human/Italiano/Roden + 1 lesser active player way too early scum prediction, and also all based individually as well.

In that order for me.

Now you need to explain why you classified the roden read here as individually.

I am still waiting for an answer!

Way past Roden. Don’t be dense, there was a large 1v1 between them and I even

This is what basically says move on, evading a concrete answer.

here's the thing this one's ignoring, i've actively given reasons for Roden, but they choose to stick to this narrative.

[Flavor Leaf]

This re-read produced way too many scumreads. HEM/Italiano stand out, though.

VOTE: HEM

what.

what!

you come in here, shade me...


then push the team combo I was pushing

[Flavor Leaf]

Now that's failed

also FWIW i think FL would be today's lim if I was actually scum because I'll have partners pushing with me

I also believe FL stopped being a wagon BECAUSE i hopped off, not the other way around

goes well with me being on Roden, doesnt it

[Flavor Leaf]

It's possible Nk15 and Roden are together. NK15 going on Italiano/HEM seems like a way to get me to move off of Roden since they seem to be obsessed with them

[Flavor Leaf]

I think a wolf HEM is spewing NK15 as town in this scenario.
Speaking from a pre-flipped point of view.

This has absolutely nothing to do with what you said, but quoting it because it made me remember. I've been feeling that FL has been unnecessarily backing me up in everything in a way that seems to me unnatural and purposeful. I do not think they are scum but I am aware that town, including me, love to be town-read so I see it possible that my TL on them is based in that primarily and forcing me to ignore the slight red-flag of that pocket/white-knight and I would love some insight to see if I should continue to put that on the downlow and trust my soul or to follow that read to it's core and see where it lands.

yeah, this has more to do with disagreeing with Koopa's read moreso than what you've been doing, if that makes sense.

[Flavor Leaf]

i'll let him answer that

but i disagree that FL's wagon necessarily would have scum in it.
I stand by that the scumminess is present and organic to FL's posting (as in you can visibly feel it, it's not galaxy brain) and I will sympathize with those who respond to the same instinct.

here's the thing, that's exactly why scum are likely on it, like i said, i think 1.

[Flavor Leaf]

If I can town read HEM, I can probably town read Italiano.

Right now I'm feeling that there is scum in Roden and NK15, might be 1, might be 2, we'll see how I feel about that a little later.

[Flavor Leaf]

I haven’t voted Math.

[Flavor Leaf]

My perspective on Mathblade here is that they are saying things I like which is getting me to town read them, which is similar to what Titus did last game, however Titus had a "maybe theyre the traitor" vibe because Frogster was sure I was a traitor in that game even when Titus said they didnt think I was.

Weird game that was, Frogster thought I was the traitor pushing him that hard, haha.

But yeah, I can see this being possible scumMathblade, but I probably won't push them here since I do like what theyre saying, and they would do the same for me if it was reversed.

[Flavor Leaf]

Personally, I think Roden's the best fade today.

Gives loads of information, good chance of scum, most of the game doesn't get their point, and theyre just pushing like I flipped a narrative, when I really didn't.

Everyone else I can make a bigger case for being town, such as HEM, such as Mala, even NK15 has a stronger town case than Roden.

But there is a lot of good discussion to have on all those other slots that we likely can come to better conclusions with extra flips and a Night Kill + PR actions.

I think Roden's just the overall best fade today.

[Flavor Leaf]

My perspective on Mathblade here is that they are saying things I like which is getting me to town read them, which is similar to what Titus did last game, however Titus had a "maybe theyre the traitor" vibe because Frogster was sure I was a traitor in that game even when Titus said they didnt think I was.

Weird game that was, Frogster thought I was the traitor pushing him that hard, haha.

But yeah, I can see this being possible scumMathblade, but I probably won't push them here since I do like what theyre saying, and they would do the same for me if it was reversed.

Just like a mutual understanding of "bigger fish to fry" kinda thing?

More of a Mathblade's gonna put up a big fight to stop being faded, that if they're town, it's definitely not worth having without more info in the game for a better case. Mathblade would be able to push a lot of circular logic, Day 1 circular logic will come off as pretty even.

[Flavor Leaf]

Not sure, at the moment. I do think Roden is at the bottom, though.

And I expect a scum in my town reads.

[Flavor Leaf]

I want something more solid please.

Especially on your progression on HEM.

Frankly, you can read my posts for my progression on HEM. That's something that's already out there, and I feel I've talked about.

I'll get to it, but for me to do so, I'd have to sit down and gather my thoughts because I'm in a between thing.

But yeah, I've definitely been spouting all the thoughts I have had including my paranoia for Mathblade/Malcolm, and it's all there. I'll do another list when it's time to do another list, but I'm with you, that the time is near for me to do another list, and now it's for another reason because Scorpious wont think im trying to pocket them by doing another list.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like honestly, HEM is the slot you should be least interested in my thoughts on considering i've talked about it recently and throughout the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

I want it summarized in your own words right now though - is that too much? I'm very concerned you suddenly stopped pushing him after momentum started.

That's partly the reason I stopped. And yeah, it's hard to do colors and stuff like that when I'm not settled, busy doing some other stuff, but basically, Idk, he took a good approach if he was scum by diffusing the situation with me. I called out the possibility of them seeing that I did that with Italiano, and that maybe the two of them are combined, and then I started seeing HEM/Italiano pairing, but RodenScum's been speaking out to me, and I do very much think that Roden and HEM are not scum together because of the odd double team.

Like I said, Roden seemed to piggyback onto NK15's posting towards me, but I did start to feel NK15 town vibes.

I also naturally have a tendency to go against the crowd reads, so the fact that the crowd started getting on board with HEM alongside me getting town read heavily gve me flashbacks to when I pushed Malcolm last game, and he flipped town, and I got a lot of heat for it even though it took much more than just me to get that wagon.

So it feels kind of similar to that, however, with Malcolm push, I was right to sniff the scum energy, but it was just slightly misplaced, so I looked near HEM, and Roden fits that as well.

I also do really feel like Malakittens is not trying to pocket me, and generally just sees that I am town, and I believe Roden was one of the Mala wagoners way back yonder as well, but I could be wrong on that one.

Mathblade town reading me now, but can easily be setting me up to be the face that takes the blame for a HEM misfade, so I'm actively giving pause on the HEM wagon, and when I started considering moving back to HEM, I also felt like I was almost compromising back to HEM, and that scum probably WANT me to go onto HEM, giving me a slight town read at times to HEM, but that could just be my paranoia of pushing through a misfade when I could have just been correct.

But when I look at the gamestate with the perspective of HEM town, then Italiano also comes off as townie to me, which makes sense, and that scum is more likely in a Roden/NK15 area than HEM/Italiano because my HEM read base did come off initially because of an Italiano scum read, and I was pushing HEM for their base foundation being incorrect but then mine ended up falling apart a little as well, however there are bases that it would work regardless.

I'm not super against the HEM wagon, and could be nice to see the flip, I just feel like I'm starting to think they're town. The devil's advocate in me naturally stays away from the crowd thought.

So that's where I'm at with HEM. hope that's good for now, ill still do my list when I want to come to a little bit more conclusivity.

[Flavor Leaf]

K, go and vote me then. cuz I don't go and quote when I'm not sitting on my computer.

Don't threaten votes as town, that's just weak play.

[Flavor Leaf]

when I'm not sitting on my computer.

Actually, if I'm in a hardcore mobile posting mafia session, I will.

But I'm doing otherstuff right now, and have already been letting this take too much time.

You can wait for citations.

[Flavor Leaf]

How is it weak play

Similar to using the PR claim to help with a 1v1.

Just cheap ploys. They can work, but like, you flip flop so much, your threat of a vote doesn't mean much right now, especially because if anything, I get to read what people do based on it.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't want to vote you out - I want to vote Mala out and when they flip wolf we can vote you out for very overtly defending them.

If mala flips town, you can be town.

But as of right now - Mala is a 2 for 1 deal for me. Ya dig?

Mala's been under the radar this whole game and you still are trying to drag her along as if she has been towny enough to defend.

Question to all: Who here townreads Malakittens? If so, why?

Yeah, see, you fail to look at the fact that if Mala is scum, I'm even more likely to be town, and are pushing it in a black and white sense, and you've set yourself up not to have a lot of weight behind your vote currently. This can change of course, but right now, I don't think you have as much pull as you think you do.

HOWEVER, I do think it comes from town you to think that.

If you do end up being scum, you will not be caught Day 1, and if you are scum, I think you're playing very well and in a way that is not easy to play. I dont know if that's the case, though, and in my head, occam's razor, you're town.

[Flavor Leaf]

I also have stated that I do see a world where Mala is scum, and if so, she has what I dubbed Koala'd me, where scumHer set up the exact trap you'd be falling for, which is a pretty obvious trap.

I'm also the one being Koala'd in that scenario, so I feel it makes sense that I see her as town.

And I did see her as townie before that.

She hasn't been doing too much since then, so I'm not like saying she's 100% town, I'm just saying where my thoughts are currently.

[Flavor Leaf]

I will say, your PR claim is probably the thing that I go back to the most when reanalyzing you. It was the biggest action youve taken this game, and I do see the emotional town PR claim, but I dont want to underestimate you if you are scum, which you are probably hoping I do if you are.

The PR claim has nothing to do with me not wanting to vote you.

I'm the type that will ask a vig to shoot a conf townie IC if I think the game's more likely a win because of it.

[Flavor Leaf]

I see no reason why we should not eliminate Mala here right now.

Eh, even if Mala is scum, this is just where I think your playstyle as a whole has holes.

[Flavor Leaf]

You also just seem to fail to see that if Mala is scum, I am completely pocketed and blame me for that rather than the scum who put into the time doing that.

I also am known to defend heavily against pushes.

Look how I've been when you pushed JV/Scorpious as well, and then even HEM. It's just kind of my natural thing is to defend.

I think this is beneficial because it forces people to break through the defenses enough, so if I do end up seeing it, it holds even more merit because I just play the devil's advocate, that can almost open up more eyes to seeing the correct read, whatever that may be.

[Flavor Leaf]

Give me a quick summary on why she is town then.

I haven't really seen anything of her that is inherently scummy and not personality charged.

To be fair, she hasn't been doing much, so that is also the only viable scum reasoning I have as well.

And again, like i said, if Mala is scum, I am calling out the pocket.

This is exactly how I was with Titus last game when Titus pocketed me, and I was even able to case titus as scum while saying I felt they are town.

So the fact I can't make a strong Mala town case does actively raise her scum possibilities and that I am stuck in a pocket.

But alas, I am stuck in the pocket Day 1 if so.

[Flavor Leaf]

OK buddy why is she town tho.

chill, i didnt even see the post until =after i posted that one

[Flavor Leaf]

If Mala is scum, why hasn't she shown anything, though. She's good at playing scum.

I haven't been like actively stopping the Mala wagon or anything, so feel free to push it. I just wont be on it. I'm in a pocket, koopa, if she is scum. You're doing a decent job at allowing me to see it, but it's the type of pocket I'm just kinda willing to be in right now considering I have reads on other slots on the game.

I also have faith I'd be able to read Mala correctly as the game goes on, and if she is town, Id very much like her to be alive because scum will be forced to deal with the pairing.

[Flavor Leaf]

Roden's accusations against Mala are all *true*. Lurking out when there is pressure is extremely wolfy. Being disengaged in the way Mala has been - is extremely wolfy.

this just makes me feel Roden's scum style is to push faults in townies play, which is solid.

So this in itself makes me believe that Roden is scum.

I'm likely not going to vote off my wagon from earlier today, so idk why you're continuously trying to convince me.



You also threatened a Mala scum flip directly into FL, which is a surface level analysis.

So idk why you thought that was a good action to take.

[Flavor Leaf]

spent way more time posting than i expected to right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

So no in game reason? Got it.
I'm going to continue pushing this slot. If you think she is so town - she can post her way out of it.

Eh, misrep, but I don't mind the outcome of it all.

It's specifically in-game reasons mixed in with some meta, which I admit, I don't like.

But this is a contradictory post by someone like you who constantly uses meta.

Now you've outed yourself as someone who only cares about meta when it's coming from you.


@Mathblade - when you get the chance, can you look into the times Koopa's flip flopped and see if you can find any correlation there. There's a chance they're a strong scum player who is capable of doing this on Day 1.

I'm seeing a possible Koopa/Roden possibility, but that doesn't make too much sense with the HEM protection from earlier, I guess.

The way Koopa throws those threats around along with the PR claim specifically to empower a 1v1 just don't sit right with me.

[Flavor Leaf]

And now you're trying to turn Mathblade against me, huh?

Misrep ^

[Flavor Leaf]

You are trying your utmost to discredit ANYONE going near Mala without a real reason to townread Mala.

Yeah, if her and I were S/S, I'd be able to defend her much easier, I bet.

I already stated that if she is scum, I'm pocketed. Which you refuse to acknowledge.

I'm very aware that I could be pocketed by her, which I have stated multiple times, meaning that I see a world where she is scum.

But the sheer effect of a pocket is so the player getting pocketed makes it so they trust the player, and that's just where we're at, at this point.

[Flavor Leaf]

You still have much to learn, young koopaling. Especially if Mala is actually scum here.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Koopa - Yeah, that's a solid case for Mala scum-FL pocketed, not for Mala scum-FL scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

And now you're trying to turn Mathblade against me, huh?

Misrep ^

What am I misrepresenting?

Pray tell - please tell me the intention of you going to mathblade with that - are you trying to get him to townread me here?

Because Mathblade's willing to do the work, and is someone I know how they think, so I get to see their thoughts since they are outside the situation and I get them to take another stance, helping me read you and them simultaneously.

You really need to learn how to look outside of the box.

[Flavor Leaf]

How are you pocketed? What is so towny about Mala that you are defending her?

Idk, but I am town. I just dont see the scumminess.

A couple times throughout the game we had similar thoughts, like when we got the ping for KoopaTown.

Not hard to see why I could be pocketed here, we've also already talked about how we met irl in 2014.

Idk, if you can't see it, I'm not gonna be the one that gets you to here.

[Flavor Leaf]

He cannot claim why he townreads mala but is defending her as if she is locktown.

This is a misrep.

I've actively said multiple times I see the possibility of being pocketed by her, and you have acknowledged that multiple times.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor was fine with me up until now when I was insistent on voting Mala

this is also somewhat of a misrep, I had you on my list of 3 to vote earlier, so it's not like it's the first time I've gone against you.

You like to leave things out when it's convenient for you to do so.

So I will be reanalyzing your slot and make a town case or a scum case in a little bit.

[Flavor Leaf]

you may be correct about Mala.

And I see your reasoning behind it, but you got some work to do over here to learn how to push through stuff and see the happenings around it if you are town here.

because you ignore things when it doesnt fit your line of thinking rather than trying to change it, and you go aggressive.

It is scum's job to get people to defend them, and had you brought up simply the line of the people I have pushed have all been on Mala, then yeah, that would have been a more eye opening reason.


But, like I have already stated, I have a tendency to town read people who are getting pushed for reasons I dont think are that AI.


You saw it when you pushed JV and Scorp.

It happened now with HEM, and if Mala is scum, then that just means it happened with Malakittens early, and it got set in my brain that she was town + her actively town reading me and lining up with some of my thoughts would have actively embraced that idea, and when that mud dried, it created a rather strong wall of a connection.

So yeah, that's how the pocket happened if she is scum.


You have already witnessed me multiple times this game defending multiple slots when they get steam.

You even were getting ready to push me because I was starting to defend HEM/not see them as scummy.

And you know what, the last time you got against me like this was when I pushed Roden.

So I definitely see a possibility of Roden/Koopa here.

[Flavor Leaf]

You then said I was town after that.

Not immediately.

And that is what you should have been doing from the beginning. you've focused way too much on me this game, and it feels like Koopa's been trying to guide me all game, almost trying to make me get the brunt of everything.

[Flavor Leaf]

But Koopa, you probably gotta work on your emotional game here, so much gets effected by your emotional state.

[Flavor Leaf]

For simple things, like who cares if people are reading things differently, it's mafia.

Stay stoic and play the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am having a really shitty shift right now.

If you all can not go back and forth for pages (plural) and be succinct and not add onto the overwhelming amount to read that’d be awesome.

All that makes me do is want to ignore both of you and vote someone at pure random and restart RVS because this reads like a shit fest.

yeah, I can't tell. They just started coming after me and ignoring half the things I was saying.

I think there's a chance they're trying to save Roden partner, but mostly I just think they're town who lets emotions take over them to an extreme level.



@Others - I might just be pocketed by Mala, so if I am, I'll need you to break me out of it. What is the actual scum case on Mala?

[Flavor Leaf]

@FL
please post your thoughts on the current gamestate, thank you.

alongside any updated reads and why they might have shifted etc.

I want something more solid please.

Especially on your progression on HEM.

I want it summarized in your own words right now though - is that too much? I'm very concerned you suddenly stopped pushing him after momentum started.

I want receipts with your accusations.

For example - you say "Roden seemed to piggyback onto NK15's posting"

I want you to cite the exact posts where you see this.


If you fail to do this - I will be voting you if I go through Roden's posts myself and find this absent.

I changed my mind on HEM. I am vetoing both Roden AND HEM today.

I don't want to vote you out - I want to vote Mala out and when they flip wolf we can vote you out for very overtly defending them.

If mala flips town, you can be town.

But as of right now - Mala is a 2 for 1 deal for me. Ya dig?

Mala's been under the radar this whole game and you still are trying to drag her along as if she has been towny enough to defend.

Question to all: Who here townreads Malakittens? If so, why?

Just I want I want I want "right now".


then I give it to them, and they dont like the answer, so they go even more emotional.

Smoke some weed. we can always chill and get the answer in a bit.

[Flavor Leaf]

All that makes me do is want to ignore both of you and vote someone at pure random and restart RVS because this reads like a shit fest.

it's not, though. A lot of times in those back and forth 1v1 situations, there's actually a lot to read into.

It's why it's such a good scum strategy to hide in, which was one of my initial pushes on HEM. I don't think that's what Koopa was doing, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Malakittens [3]: humaneatingmonkey [792], Roden [804], KittyTacky [805]

I just don't trust this wagon at all.

I believe the others that have expressed interest that way are NK15, Koopa, and maybe JV? but yeah. This is actually the majority of the reason my town read started, and now looking into the push by Koopa saying I've push everyone who pushed Mala, yeah, of course I did.

The reason I started town reading Mala was because she was under fire, and I actively stated I thought there was scum on the Mala wagon at the beginning of the game.

That and I've lined up with Mala with read pings, and she town read me, i town read her made me feel like we were more on the same page.

Yes, I can see it's possible I got pocketed, but I really don't think that's what's happening.

I believe there was scum on the early Mala wagon, I believe there is scum there now.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am aware I have a tendency to defend people who are going under fire.

I almost treat it like I'm a door, and if you can mold the key that fits my keyhole where I am happy to open up to an actual good reason for one being scum, I am happy to do so.


This hasn't happened with Mala for me, and I think they're getting pushed for lack of content, and think Koopa has a tendency to push for people who are lacking content based on their "scum naturally want to lurk". sure, but that doesn't mean town doesn't lurk either. There probably is scum in the less active slots, but I do not think it's Mala.


They pushed JV for the same reason.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think if she’s scum it’s right because lucky and if she’s town then it’s a wagon of convenience.

This is exactly how I see it.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am solidly town reading Koopa I would say.

After rereading the exchange, it feels like a townie acting out because they aren't getting what they want (fully developed read summary + agreement in scumread) + lack of patience.

It's Day 1. Gotta be patient. There isn't much to go on with Mala. My 2 reasons are more than enough for me to warrant my town read on the slot. Yes, I am aware I could be wrong, and getting pocketed, but the scum case isn't strong enough for me to believe so just yet, and it's okay to be wrong/pocketed on Day 1, I'd rather risk being wrong on a slot I town read and have to reanalyze when the game has more information than to possibly misfade Mala for the chance she flips scum.

My 2 reasons:
Mala and I have been lining up, and I felt that we genuinely felt the other was town early.
The Mala wagon itself isn't a wagon I am comfortable voting alongside with, and I believe that shows in my reads.


In addition, I also have the tendency to defend people who are getting wagon'd. Even when I have defended scum in those scenarios, a lot of times, I end up seeing the correct path along the way because I defended them, and that didn't happen here.


So the combination of those things.

I specifically feel that the back and forth exchange was Koopa just being emotional town, and I essentially brick walled him, and they got upset because they felt like I was refusing to give more information to them when in actuality, there just isn't more, and they got mad that I wasn't agreeing with them, so I would appreciate it not being ignored because it is just seen as a "back and forth" or a "shitfest" because I think that is also not a good stance.

I've effectively summarized exchanged in this and the breaking down analytically of it.

[Flavor Leaf]

hi FL

im actually okay with letting Mala's wagon stall for a while before she returns

my strongest point against Mala was that I dont see any town motivation for fakeclaiming mason, and she has been a nonpresence in this game except for that one move.
i also dont trust koopa anymore. im getting visions of him being the traitor crumbing earlier and that's why his positioning has been constantly shifting.
i also trust these emotional outbursts less and less. they're beginning to look incongruent to how i imagine someone would normally react... to a game of mafia...
your exchange was not even heated.

You've never fake claimed masons with someone? Pretty common. I agree with the nonpresence.

I think Koopa was just emotional town who got annoyed when they didnt get what they wanted.

For Koopa to be scum they would have a very strong scum game, imo, to even attempt to play the way they did, which I'm not opposed to looking at.

It is obvious Koopa does think that they are a very strong player, so it could be like that episode of Brooklyn 99 where the guy gets caught because of own ego.


One thing that helps me not see it as overly scummy is because, and no offense to the site as a whole, I've seen a lot of people come over from Mafia Universe and have similar issues, especially in the way that they see certain things i.e. "If Mala is scum FL is scum!" without caring/looking deeper.


I also didnt like the PR crumbing into the PR Claim to empower the 1v1, but that was another emotional one.


So I see why you think the emotional side of things could be faked. It could also be real scum frustration, I guess. Idk, I'm leaning town there for now, but I thought the exact same thing you did, so that's a good sign for my read on you.

I am posting SO much, but that interaction lead me to a lot of good analysis.

It's also been a long time since I've played Mafia (only 1 completed game in the past like year), so I'm having just a lot of fun being around and getting back into detective mode.

[Flavor Leaf]

Not even against the idea of Koopa being town fake claiming the PR to help them get clout.

[Flavor Leaf]

LAST NIGHT TOMORROW

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,

FLAVORRRRRRRR!!!!

No order between tiers. This list is made to pocket Scorpious, obvi.

Scorpious
ItalianoVD

MalcolmTucker
Malakittens

humaneatingmonkey
Mathblade
JacksonVirgo
Koopashell

Andresvmp

KittyTacky
Not Known 15

Roden

I spent a decent amount of time through the Koopa exchange and after thinking about all of this, and I have a lot of town reads, so unfortunately, I am wrong somewhere.

Dark Blue are Mala and Malcolm, and while I generally feel good for town reading them, and genuinely feel they are town, I can't help but be paranoid that there's scum there, but I really really want to be correct with the two of them.

Scorpious feels EXACTLY like the last game with them, and I feel like the way they pushed Koopa was genuine and came at a time that scum just wouldn't push Koopa.

Italiano, after starting to read HEM as town, instantly goes back here. There was just so much similarities that we were mindmelded. There's the theory that I town read them after they town read me, then Monkey did it, but I've cased Italiano and Monkey team already, and while I think it's a strong case, I don't know if I believe it right now. if I'm wrong on my green tier, it's this, but I don't think I'm wrong on my green tier.

Light blue are lean town reads, but there's enough there that I can easily put on scum teams. I dont think Koopa is faking emotion, if they are scum, theyre frustrated, but they could be using that. JV i don't have strong reasons to town read beyond meta and understanding why they would flip on Koopa where they did is really the biggest townie thing I see out of them. It's Day 1.

I've explained my Roden. The Mala wagon and my wagon have scum energy on them. Even if you believe that Mala/Myself are S/S, there's like no way scum doesn't bus there, so no matter what I feel there's at least 1 scum on Mala/Flavor wagons throughout this game, possibly 2 like a 1 on 1 then 1 on another. Roden was on both at different times, so I do think they have the highest chance of being scum so far.

NK15 I've had some townie spots with, and Pink is really light scum read, so really not too much. The push on me and incessant sticking of something we were long past is what sticks out, and Roden piggybacked onto this, and I feel Roden used this, and started calling out things I'm doing as a townie that they could push as scum.

Andres hasn't done much, neither has the slot before, pretty null. Null is starting to be lean scum, but it's not there on Day 1, especially not on a replacement and someone I know can catch scum.

Kitty has that leftover adjacent scum energy from the wagons/game state positioning.

I expect 1-2 scum in my Null and Below. Never the full team is in those 4.

I understand I have a lot of town reads right now, that's just where I'm at. Personally, I think it makes a lot of sense scum want to be town read by me, and then have me push a townie, best course of action, so I wouldn't be surprised to see 2 Scum in my town reads.

I think it's probably like 1 in my top 4 is scum, and then 1 in my Light Blue tier/Null/Pink tier are scum + Roden.

()_+_)()_-_)()_+_)()_-_)()_+_)()_-_)()_+_)()_-_)()_+_)()_-_)()_+_)()_-_)()_+_)()_-_)()_+_)()_-_)()_+_)()_-_)()_+_)()_-_)()_+_)()_-_)()_+_)()_-_)()_+_)()_-_)


Will Flavor defend another slot getting wagoned?

Can Scorpious learn to love lists?!

Is it possible for Koopa to disagree with a slot without getting emotional?!?!?!?!?!

FIND OUT NEXT TIME....on

LAST NIGHT TOMORROW!!!!!!!!

[Flavor Leaf]

Scorpious
ItalianoVD
MalcolmTucker
Malakittens
humaneatingmonkey
Mathblade
JacksonVirgo
Koopashell

If you assume 3 scum, this is at minimum 5 slots correctly town read, though, so silver linings. Probably is more than 5 too.

[Flavor Leaf]

I want it summarized in your own words right now though - is that too much? I'm very concerned you suddenly stopped pushing him after momentum started.

That's partly the reason I stopped. And yeah, it's hard to do colors and stuff like that when I'm not settled, busy doing some other stuff, but basically, Idk, he took a good approach if he was scum by diffusing the situation with me. I called out the possibility of them seeing that I did that with Italiano, and that maybe the two of them are combined, and then I started seeing HEM/Italiano pairing, but RodenScum's been speaking out to me, and I do very much think that Roden and HEM are not scum together because of the odd double team.

Like I said, Roden seemed to piggyback onto NK15's posting towards me, but I did start to feel NK15 town vibes.

I also naturally have a tendency to go against the crowd reads, so the fact that the crowd started getting on board with HEM alongside me getting town read heavily gve me flashbacks to when I pushed Malcolm last game, and he flipped town, and I got a lot of heat for it even though it took much more than just me to get that wagon.

So it feels kind of similar to that, however, with Malcolm push, I was right to sniff the scum energy, but it was just slightly misplaced, so I looked near HEM, and Roden fits that as well.

I also do really feel like Malakittens is not trying to pocket me, and generally just sees that I am town, and I believe Roden was one of the Mala wagoners way back yonder as well, but I could be wrong on that one.

Mathblade town reading me now, but can easily be setting me up to be the face that takes the blame for a HEM misfade, so I'm actively giving pause on the HEM wagon, and when I started considering moving back to HEM, I also felt like I was almost compromising back to HEM, and that scum probably WANT me to go onto HEM, giving me a slight town read at times to HEM, but that could just be my paranoia of pushing through a misfade when I could have just been correct.

But when I look at the gamestate with the perspective of HEM town, then Italiano also comes off as townie to me, which makes sense, and that scum is more likely in a Roden/NK15 area than HEM/Italiano because my HEM read base did come off initially because of an Italiano scum read, and I was pushing HEM for their base foundation being incorrect but then mine ended up falling apart a little as well, however there are bases that it would work regardless.

I'm not super against the HEM wagon, and could be nice to see the flip, I just feel like I'm starting to think they're town. The devil's advocate in me naturally stays away from the crowd thought.

So that's where I'm at with HEM. hope that's good for now, ill still do my list when I want to come to a little bit more conclusivity.

[Flavor Leaf]

@HEM

[Flavor Leaf]

I am also carrying the game right now.

If you're carrying us, I'm hopping out of the backpack.

[Flavor Leaf]

It's also Day 1, nobody needs to be carried

Got many more day phases to play.

Now that I know Koopa's got that EpicMafia chat mafia experience, which makes a lot of sense given the way they tried, emphasis on tried, to empower their push with a claim, i now believe it can be coming from scum or a town fake claim, or a town real claim. They've essentially lost that credibility.

Chat Mafia is really fast paced so claiming as scum can just lead people to play a "follow the PR" game, which they have actively admitted to trying to abuse, so it is definitely within the scope of a KoopaScum Game to do the same thing.


Roden/Koopa/Kitty might be a solve, idk.

[Flavor Leaf]

Part of me thinks we should just let Koopa do Gunsmith actions a couple nights, then fade them Day 3.

Ignore any of their guilties, ignore their innos until after we fade them Day 3, then they can be conclusive.

Also makes scum, if Koopa is town, forced to leave a Gunsmith alive.

[Flavor Leaf]

This is also protection against Koopa faking a guilty, which I believe is definitely something they'd abuse to get momentum following them no matter what their alignment based on what they've said about themselves and how they play.

[Flavor Leaf]

HEM, why don't you ask more constructive questions like - why Flavor thinks Mala is such confident town over so many other players? (:

They don't need to ask me that, my thoughts are already out there for the world to see on that.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor more like Flailing

Hey, I'll take it. I don't flail as scum unless I'm trying to fake a town meta.

[Flavor Leaf]

After rereading the exchange, it feels like a townie acting out because they aren't getting what they want (fully developed read summary + agreement in scumread) + lack of patience.

It's Day 1. Gotta be patient. There isn't much to go on with Mala. My 2 reasons are more than enough for me to warrant my town read on the slot. Yes, I am aware I could be wrong, and getting pocketed, but the scum case isn't strong enough for me to believe so just yet, and it's okay to be wrong/pocketed on Day 1, I'd rather risk being wrong on a slot I town read and have to reanalyze when the game has more information than to possibly misfade Mala for the chance she flips scum.

My 2 reasons:
Mala and I have been lining up, and I felt that we genuinely felt the other was town early.
The Mala wagon itself isn't a wagon I am comfortable voting alongside with, and I believe that shows in my reads.


In addition, I also have the tendency to defend people who are getting wagon'd. Even when I have defended scum in those scenarios, a lot of times, I end up seeing the correct path along the way because I defended them, and that didn't happen here.


So the combination of those things.

There's more than just gut.

Koopa just doesn't care about the reasons because the read goes against their own reads.

[Flavor Leaf]

i know. we spent two irl days iirc just dragging each other to the dirt. i'm way ahead of you on FL's slot. i'm waiting for malakittens.

i am voting Mala, koopa. also way ahead of you on that one.

i also dont think FL thinks i townread them.

Yeah my bad, just frustrated right now. Trying to convince some of the other townies just feels like its going to prove... difficult.

Yeah, you're too emotionally fueled right now, it's gonna have the opposite effect. Everytime you try to shade/discredit chop at me, it drowns the Mala wagon out, so I'm very much happy to let you continue chopping.

[Flavor Leaf]

so do we understand how frustrating it is to be on the other side of FL's catfight?

Yeah, people definitely shouldn't try to 1v1 me. Even I know that's not a good spot to be. There are other ways, because most of the time, I'll even work alongside the people who think I am scum.

I got the gift of gab.

[Flavor Leaf]

so do we understand how frustrating it is to be on the other side of FL's catfight?

Oh yes, very. Luckily I have experience with such snaky players, notably SPF from Epicmafia/Mafiauniverse, who uses similar wordplay - the archaetype is actually strikingly similar,

as well as the weak defense of their partner that is the key to catching them.

This is actually you projecting, and you can look at this post game for how you used your own assumption of what my archetype is to read incorrectly.

[Flavor Leaf]

Weird, because I just thought of the comparison and has nothing to do with my read

it was still a comparison that came to your head, though. it's not like you didn't think it.

You're just a surface level player when it boils down to it.

[Flavor Leaf]

Can lead a camel to water, but if they don't what water is, well, they're gonna die of dehydration :shrug:

[Flavor Leaf]

You're not as strong at 1v1ing as Dkkoba is.

[Flavor Leaf]

it's embarrassing how much i fell for these

you didn't get that level. 1487 was me finally pulling back my filter, and I would say those last 3 posts were my only posts in the game that didn't have some trying to find scum feelers out there.

[Flavor Leaf]

And is also when I know I need to take a break once I lose that filter.

Nobody needs to see what it's like for me to let emotions get to me in a game.

[Flavor Leaf]

God I wonder if this is how I was viewed after HEM died in the other game.

My joy for reading this is done.

Yeah, this was def me and you last game.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Malcolm - Would you consider going Roden over Monkey today?

[Flavor Leaf]

humaneatingmonkey [2]: MalcolmTucker [868], Not Known 15 [1337]
Roden [2]: Flavor Leaf [859], ItalianoVD [888]
Not Known 15 [1]: JacksonVirgo [1176]

So look at these 3 wagons from the current VC.

Roden, Humaneatingmonkey, and Not Known 15 are one of those triangles that were pushing the FL steam where we all agree besides those ones that dont that there were scum.


This is actually something that heavily implies scum are on the main wagon. Town are usually more spread out, and we are split pushing in similar directions, but not lined up completely. Scum are more focused and position themselves accordingly, so gamestate likely wants that Mala side dead.

[Flavor Leaf]

Please, this is actually a really amazing find and reason for the 3 of us to converge into one wagon.

Can we please all pressure towards Roden? I truly think it's the best fade for the day,

[Flavor Leaf]

humaneatingmonkey [2]: MalcolmTucker [868], Not Known 15 [1337]
Roden [2]: Flavor Leaf [859], ItalianoVD [888]
Not Known 15 [1]: JacksonVirgo [1176]

So look at these 3 wagons from the current VC.

Roden, Humaneatingmonkey, and Not Known 15 are one of those triangles that were pushing the FL steam where we all agree besides those ones that dont that there were scum.


This is actually something that heavily implies scum are on the main wagon. Town are usually more spread out, and we are split pushing in similar directions, but not lined up completely. Scum are more focused and position themselves accordingly, so gamestate likely wants that Mala side dead.

Who is "we" when you say "we all agree"?

we as in the circle voting the 3

[Flavor Leaf]

humaneatingmonkey [2]: MalcolmTucker [868], Not Known 15 [1337]
Roden [2]: Flavor Leaf [859], ItalianoVD [888]
Not Known 15 [1]: JacksonVirgo [1176]

So look at these 3 wagons from the current VC.

Roden, Humaneatingmonkey, and Not Known 15 are one of those triangles that were pushing the FL steam where we all agree besides those ones that dont that there were scum.


This is actually something that heavily implies scum are on the main wagon. Town are usually more spread out, and we are split pushing in similar directions, but not lined up completely. Scum are more focused and position themselves accordingly, so gamestate likely wants that Mala side dead.

Who is "we" when you say "we all agree"?

These are the type of questions Roden chooses to ask in this game. Out of all that's out there, really look at their ISO and check the types of questions they ask.


@People who played in that last game where I was April Ludgate. This is exactly how Frogster asked questions. Just off for the where the game is.

[Flavor Leaf]

humaneatingmonkey [2]: MalcolmTucker [868], Not Known 15 [1337]
Roden [2]: Flavor Leaf [859], ItalianoVD [888]
Not Known 15 [1]: JacksonVirgo [1176]

So look at these 3 wagons from the current VC.

Roden, Humaneatingmonkey, and Not Known 15 are one of those triangles that were pushing the FL steam where we all agree besides those ones that dont that there were scum.


This is actually something that heavily implies scum are on the main wagon. Town are usually more spread out, and we are split pushing in similar directions, but not lined up completely. Scum are more focused and position themselves accordingly, so gamestate likely wants that Mala side dead.

Who is "we" when you say "we all agree"?

we as in the circle voting the 3

There is no "we all" then, you're referring to three other people out of 13 players. That's just more manipulative wording.

There's 5 of us.

[Flavor Leaf]

You're calling it manipulative, but I'm just trying to rally the crew together.

Kind of a motivational speech.

[Flavor Leaf]

humaneatingmonkey [2]: MalcolmTucker [868], Not Known 15 [1337]
Roden [2]: Flavor Leaf [859], ItalianoVD [888]
Not Known 15 [1]: JacksonVirgo [1176]

So look at these 3 wagons from the current VC.

Roden, Humaneatingmonkey, and Not Known 15 are one of those triangles that were pushing the FL steam where we all agree besides those ones that dont that there were scum.


This is actually something that heavily implies scum are on the main wagon. Town are usually more spread out, and we are split pushing in similar directions, but not lined up completely. Scum are more focused and position themselves accordingly, so gamestate likely wants that Mala side dead.

Who is "we" when you say "we all agree"?

we as in the circle voting the 3

There is no "we all" then, you're referring to three other people out of 13 players. That's just more manipulative wording.

There's 5 of us.

You're...including NK15? A player who in the exact same post you just said was scum?

They;re a light lean scum read at best, and I've explained my thought on that slot, that I think they're likely town that pushed me that you piggybacked from.


You're really trying just find any angle you can, huh

[Flavor Leaf]

I'd also like to point out that Roden last time came in right after the NK15 push towards me, and now they're coming in right after the koopa aggression post

[Flavor Leaf]

I do see that there can be scum in that group, and also want to gauge how people respond to the rally call.

[Flavor Leaf]

No, saying it’s manipulative and calling me that is the icky part.

You’re flipping that on me.

[Flavor Leaf]

How did Mala pocket you?

I've repeated my reasonings for townreading Mala 3+ times.

[Flavor Leaf]

Please, this is actually a really amazing find and reason for the 3 of us to converge into one wagon.

Can we please all pressure towards Roden? I truly think it's the best fade for the day,

Can you possibly case roden again for me, assuming I am super out of the loop cuz I am.

The case on Roden is all of the questions they choose to ask is very off during the time they are doing it, and it's likely because they're trying to put momentum towards me to help shut me down.

Also, Roden piggybacks momentum every time, hiding behind others.

They piggybacked the NK15/Hem pushes, then they piggybacked the Koopa interaction.

They also rephrase words and push things like buzzwords like manipulating into the narrative.

[Flavor Leaf]

Leaf, I'm not going to throw down in the dirt with you or engage in a "no u" back and forth.

@FL

this ultimately seems like a Townie thing to say in this context, can I ask your thoughts on it.

It's a dismissal tactic because they're trying to make my push and defense on them nothing more than the simple no u, when that's absolutely not the case.

[Flavor Leaf]

debunk FL's read on Malakittens
you can't.

completely false.

[Flavor Leaf]

debunk FL's read on Malakittens
you can't.

completely false.

and ive said it 3+ times already.

[Flavor Leaf]

i'm repeating the mason claim ad nauseum because i'm shocked how little people care

fake mason claim is the most overdone joke in mafia games, reading way too much into if your main reason is "mason claim was sketch!"

[Flavor Leaf]

Malcom/Math/JV/Koopa/FL are all most likely to be town

Kitty / NK15 & roden are most likely to be scum

Andre is null because of the lack of posts from both him and his other slot.

LAST NIGHT TOMORROW READS LIST

My bottom 3 are your most likely to be scum here.

another meld.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’ll vote Koopa over Mala all day…

i would hammer a Koopa at E-1 even if they were IC to move on to the next day.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm really not interested in fading lurker slots Day 1.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm sorry I blew up.

I think I'm just frustrated in general at this thread & I was hungry and then the combo just set me off.

I apologize to whom whoever I insulted

You needed to, it's okay.

[Flavor Leaf]

see i know you can't substantiate why you townread FL from way back.

people push this type of thing as scummy when it's inherently townie. scum WILL make up reasons and make up reasons that suffice, just how the game is played.

[Flavor Leaf]

if koopa survives N1, i will automatically elim them even if they have a guilty.

I proposed the plan to fade Koopa Day 3, ignoring all his guilties/inno's until he flips.

Koopa's the type that's gonna fake a guilty if he wants to get his way, so yeah.

I'm down to fade Koopa Day 3, probably not Day 2, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL - i can easily frame what you say is wolf motivation for Roden actions from the POV of a townie who is genuinely seeing you as a wolf.
VOTE: humaneatingmonkey
This player is seen here scrambling after losing their pet push when said player has ended up towntelling.
A wolf "left in the dust" so to speak.

Cool

[Flavor Leaf]

@Italiano - Kitty is the most likely Roden scum partner for you as well? I might be willing to move there. Nobody else sees the RodenScum like we do, which is just wild, but yeah.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Kitty

Yeah, I'm fine with Kitty.

[Flavor Leaf]

Kitty is towny.

Here's something you don't seem to understand: scum are townie Day 1 more often than not.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm much more confident in Roden, but I think a Kitty wagon is solid.

I'll feel a little bad if they're town, but I generally do think Kitty has a decent chance of being on multiple possible scum teams.

[Flavor Leaf]

NK15 / HEM / FL sounds viable

lol

[Flavor Leaf]

I dont see anyone else as potential wolf here.

should look in your town reads, cuz it's Day 1 kid.

[Flavor Leaf]

it's okay to not have the right reads on Day 1. Day 1 is not for that.

[Flavor Leaf]

NK15 / HEM / FL sounds viable

lol

Your gaslighting behavior against roden cannot be ignored. Roden and you have a difference check.

cool

[Flavor Leaf]

NK15 / HEM / FL sounds viable
Maybe add Andres to that PoE for safety

I dont see anyone else as potential wolf here.
I flipped my NK15 by deciding to evaluate them on inherent dayplay - i still prefer to flip outside them right now.

Hey, NK15 and Monkey scum partners, would you mind jumping onto Kitty for the day, and we move onto Day 2?

[Flavor Leaf]

If FL is scum with anyone it’s with Roden, I think FL is town here to be clear.

HEM or NK15 are good elims to me?

VOTE: HEM

Can I have this?

I won't be joining this one today. He could be scum, but yeah, I think the way he pushes is just poor play as scum, and makes sense coming from town. He could be scum, I guess, but it requires Italiano to be scum for me, and if Italiano was scum, we'd have more pressure onto our wagons.

[Flavor Leaf]

We need agreement somewhere.

Math, no.

This is the epitome of compromise.

Compromise wagons Day 1 are more than not, town.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm only going Roden or Kitty today.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think Roden has much higher possibility of scum than Kitty, however.

Kitty is my compromise at this point, which is meh, but yeah.

[Flavor Leaf]

If FL is scum with anyone it’s with Roden, I think FL is town here to be clear.

HEM or NK15 are good elims to me?

VOTE: HEM

Can I have this?

I won't be joining this one today. He could be scum, but yeah, I think the way he pushes is just poor play as scum, and makes sense coming from town. He could be scum, I guess, but it requires Italiano to be scum for me, and if Italiano was scum, we'd have more pressure onto our wagons.

Fair enough.

VOTE: Unvote

Koopa, JV, FL pick a read you all agree on and I will sheep it.

FL is a wolf you fool

Yes, because 2 people in Mala and Math who have played with me IRL and seen me for years are both town reading me pretty strongly, yet someone who flip flops and plays on emotion is more correct than they are on a first time meeting of me and those town reading me's reads have no merit basically what youre saying.

[Flavor Leaf]

You have what's called Flavor Fever. Mathblade had it last game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Meh, gamestates gonna lead up to NK15 vs Kitty wagon and they're both gonna get up there, and I think it means they're a TvT.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think I am at E-2 or so....

Sheep us on Kitty then.

[Flavor Leaf]

and I don't have much time.

I'll fight against your wagon.

[Flavor Leaf]

You have what's called Flavor Fever. Mathblade had it last game.

I mean you had a rare off game.

Your predecessor said no to Skitter and Galron
You said no to Skitter and Galron

Then proceeded to be wrong almost every time
So it was hard for me to trust you on Frog when I figured out it was elo and went for the safe bet.

I mean yeah I had flavor fever but play contributed.

I was actually very close every single time. I don't believe it was an off game.

I got double sandwhich pocketed by 2 scum, and then actively called that out.

You look at games from end of day vote counts and say that, but if you look at the meat and chunk of the game, personally other than Fire, my reads were pretty top notch.

The Malcolm wagon had scum energy by it, just located wrong.

And I was actively defending Cape/VP for a while before caving in ebcause of others, so I was correct there as well.

I also was hard town reading Nero


I also came into the game calling out STD scum.

And I was hard pushing Frogster for 3+ day phases.

And I'm the only one who was considering Tene vs Scorp TvT over there.

The only off read I had was on the Galron slot, which is the one you had, and after you died I was heavily considering because of it.


So no, I did not have an off game, you were just looking at end of day VC's.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think that it is worth the merit that I distrust his approach to people I townread.

Everytime I switch my reads, you have switched.

I was pushing HEM for so long, and you went against it, but now that I don't want it, you were pushing it.

I was pushing NK15, same thing.


This is on you nooba.

[Flavor Leaf]

*koopa

[Flavor Leaf]

There is no reasonable explanation why FL moved up hem in his reads - HEM has added nothing different. However roden is stuck on the bottom somehow.

ugh, if you werent so egocentric i wouldnt care that you're so newbie with statements like this.

[Flavor Leaf]

actively fucking ignores the entire beginning of the reason they started to go emotional tunnel on me in the first place WAS THE EXACT DAMN REASON FOR ME EXPLAINING MY FLIP AND SUMMARY ON MY READ ON HEM.

Like god damn, ignorant as fuck.

[Flavor Leaf]

done with that.

fuck

[Flavor Leaf]

There is no reasonable explanation why FL moved up hem in his reads - HEM has added nothing different.

like holy fuck. how do you think you're good.

[Flavor Leaf]

clearly just in your own delusional little cloud ignoring what people say if it doesnt align with you even though youve flip flopped more than anyone else in this game.

i rarely break past my breaking point and can usually hold back, but damn.

just found a new level i didnt know existed with lines like that.

[Flavor Leaf]

If you are town you have made it very difficult to find you.

yeah, which is why majority of this game town reads me

[Flavor Leaf]

There is no reasonable explanation why FL moved up hem in his reads - HEM has added nothing different. However roden is stuck on the bottom somehow.

ugh, if you werent so egocentric i wouldnt care that you're so newbie with statements like this.

FL, how much do you think has the gamestate been manipulated by scum today?

Scum have manipulated the game in the sense they're likely trying to make sure Koopa/Myself keep going at each other and end up pushing town.

So I dont think they're in the forefront.

Kitty I think is the scum that is on the outlier of doing this. She was laying light town reads on me, but always pushing areas that arent going to effect gamestate.

This makes me believe Kitty is scum trying to just let the other scums manipulate while she stays in the background. The fact she chose to lean town me means there is a scum who was pushing me, scum reading me.

I have stated I do not think that was you.

I have gone in major depth for my HEM read and why I think they are more likely to be coming from town.

Leaves Roden and Koopa.

Koopa I think is emotional town, HOWEVER, there is chance they are just solid scum here, and they turned once I started pushing Roden more, and they switched their vote onto HEM in a way to possibly get me to move from Roden to HEM.


Notice how Koopa also is pushing NK15 and HEM, the EXACT 2 PEOPLE I WAS PUSHING EARLIER AND THEY WERE DEFENDING AGAINST.

This entire game Koopa has been flipping and defending anyone I push aimlessly, even after the flips.


Yet who did they not push ever, Roden.


And why?

Does anyone else in this game truly think that Roden is so unbelievably townie and couldnt be coming from a scum perspective here?


So Roden/Kitty/maybe Koopa possibility.


If Koopa is as good as he says he is, why are people giving him the obv town treatment here.

HEM started casing Koopa, and then Koopa began pushing HEM.



I think there is validity in Koopa Scum, but for obvious reasons, someone else is gonna have to push it, not me.

[Flavor Leaf]

clearly just in your own delusional little cloud ignoring what people say if it doesnt align with you even though youve flip flopped more than anyone else in this game.

i rarely break past my breaking point and can usually hold back, but damn.

just found a new level i didnt know existed with lines like that.

You could, you know, easily accomodate koopa's problems, if you just explained your reads every single time.

I have. They didn't like the answer so they acted like I didn't.

HEM is the fucking slot I spent hours talking to him about yesterday and explaining my read then he posts that shit.

Fuck that.

[Flavor Leaf]

There's at least one scum read you both had though. HEM.

There's 2.

You and HEM.

However, he didn't start pushing you two until I started seeing the 2 of you as town.

He was actively defending you when I wasn't, and as soon as I switch over, he switches? No.

[Flavor Leaf]

Someone Vig Koopa.

If he is town, he will lose the game for town.

If he is scum, it's a great shot.

[Flavor Leaf]

See - how is anyone supposed to trust you when anyone who goes against you gets pushed as scum? You called me a noob yet you OMGUS everyone.

Nah, I pushed everyone who voted me before they voted me.

You just dont understand that.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm taking credit for catching HEM scum first if he flips scum if it goes through even though I wont be joining the wagon.

[Flavor Leaf]

Someone Vig Koopa.

If he is town, he will lose the game for town.

If he is scum, it's a great shot.

Thats a nice perspective slip for someone who knows I am a townie trueclaiming.

Nah, I dont give a shit man.

[Flavor Leaf]

You get 0 credit because of the wolf theater

Disagree.

And I'm talking post game.

[Flavor Leaf]

The fact you auto assume that in game just proves how surface level of a thinker you are.

[Flavor Leaf]

If you want to be toxic be my guest - tank your credibility.
However know that my fellow townies won't be as accepting.

Doesn't matter at all. Second I stop, it all comes back bro.

Gift of gab.

[Flavor Leaf]

Everyone already knows your a surface level thinker, so not like they wont see where im coming from even if they think im getting a bit toxic.

But you're also egging it on, so it's really gonna be a "both of you guys, stop" situation.

Another surface level analysis by you thinking otherwise.

[Flavor Leaf]

Must suck for you trying to compare yourself up to Dkkoba.