Newbie 2096 | Nathan For You | Endgame

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I felt a townie lean on Italiano but im not so sure on his replacement Toffee

Yes, I know you did You should probably explain why, but hey, that's your call, scum

but she scumreads italiano a bit, and he votes her and he is lying that they are together in one PT, so I guess he is just scum, and she is not

Really, Bella? This is just from page 7 alone. I'm not saying they're lock scum reads but it clearly shows I'm nowhere near town read in this game.

3 out of the 4 active posters (excluding myself) are scum reading me to one extent or another. I guess you could argue Spartan is a null but it's meh either way.

[Bellaphant]

Eh, the only one I felt was actually a scum read was rad and the smilies weakned how seriously I took it. I took vasex to be more talking about msq.

Actually z vasex, is that some sort of meta thing on msq? Can you explain?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You didn't think Vasex was a scum read? Again, it might not be a D3 lock scum read but it is a scum read.

Bella, how do you play Newbies as scum? Was that real that you haven't rolled scum in literally years?

[Bellaphant]

I don't understand vasex much at all, I said earlier to Somnus I'd find them haes to read.

Unless I'm missing something, I literally think the last time I was scum was that mutli ball game with you, Thor, I think Plotinus was there? My only scum game in the newbie queue was my second newbie ever. I am terrified of rolling scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That was a really, really long time ago.

I'm starting to gather reads now but we really need everyone to start posting.

[Rad]

UNVOTE:

Been thinking about this all day. I'm losing confidence in my scum read for BlueBloodedToffee. Could be town trying to stir the pot and see what happens. OMGUS isn't inherently scummy. I think his actions have at least created some good content. I get that not all content is good content, and scum want to muddy the waters with bad content, but everyone should have some improved reads based on how he came into the game so that's a positive.

That's more than can be said about mq's input. So I'll give her some more time to participate and then park my vote on her if it's not sufficient.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Newbie 2096 | Nathan For You

Day 1

Player List

1. mq.bosco
   
   
2. Vasex
   
   
3. Cheapside
   
   
4. Somnus
   
   
5. Rad
   
   
6. whiskey delta
   
   
7. Jackal711 (SE)
   
8. ItalianoVD (SE)
   
   
9. Bellaphant (SE)

(bold indicates confirmation, asterisks indicate prods)

Spoiler: Flips

No flips yet.

Events:
Day 1 Start

A fantastic idea.

The only flaw is waiting to use your vote.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Umm, I don't know how that happened. I really need to stop phone posting and do this on my laptop.

[Vasex]

Eh, the only one I felt was actually a scum read was rad and the smilies weakned how seriously I took it. I took vasex to be more talking about msq.

Actually z vasex, is that some sort of meta thing on msq? Can you explain?

i know her, i gave her a link to this forum, but im not an expert to understand her, we are playing with her three games right now (2 here, 1 other forum), and everywhere I dont understand what role does she have, and we are alive everywhere, but 1 game is going to end very soon. we are from russian forums

guys, i need some time to finish 1 game and then i will be here more active; im trying to read here, but it is too difficult to do it right now... on our forum there are too fast days and nights and many huge roles with many abilities and i need much time to think there. and the situation changes there pretty fast every day. Banner Saga setting, btw, and I'm a big fan of this set, I administated the most popular pubic group in vk social media about this game, and now im playing in mafia with this lore, and now there are final days of the game, so...

usually im an active player, and she is always lurker
we've never played before with her 1 full game, but i saw one

right now she is in good mood here and - you dont believe/understsnd me - more talkative in her almost one post ( ), so i prefer to think that she is town, but im not sure, i just dont want to elim her here on day 1

and she also noticed that italiano's behaviour is changed here, so right now im not playing with italiano and i dont think that they are together; though i have no solid colors right now except somnus

[Rad]

@BlueBloodedToffee I think you were talking to me with that accidental quote? So in response, I don't want to park my vote on mq until she's had a chance to respond to everything that's happened since her last visit. She's a null read for me and maybe she's just busy and hasn't gotten a chance to participate. I'm fine with not voting someone right now, we have time to let the lurkers catch up.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, I get that.

Usually, you get better content from people when they are more likely to feel under pressure to produce something.

Be brave.

[Cheapside]

Replying to

Vasex

's 208.

Hm. I understand that other games might take up a lot of time, but if mq doesn't have a certain amount of content by end of day, she will be a policy elimination. Lurking is a very powerful scum strategy in low-power setups if town allows it - if you never say anything, there's nothing to vote you out on. Seven days to go though, so not unduly concerned.

---------------------------------------------------------

Rad:

Spoiler: replies to Rad

(replying to 160)
I acknowledge you give reasonable explanations in 160, although I still see them as points about RVS posts in a post-RVS point in the game. Btw, my first post contained no summaries of events - you must have been looking at a different one (link). My first few posts were made to keep Somnus generating original content, if that's any help.

Vasex

: meming but active, helped create content. Also townread me rapidly, so definitely town.

Are you joking about "Also townread me rapidly, so definitely town."?

Ok, so this will keep happening. I guess townpoints for reading my readslist, but yes, that was a joke, I have not ruled out the possibility that vasex is buddying hard. I'm being facetious around vasex. With D1 play like theirs, it's that or lim them.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ugh, something's off. Too much of the same people posting. Obviously it's been useful, but watching Rad or Somnus getting stuck talking to a bunch of mafia vets in their thirties (rad, blue, bella), the brief wagons kinda seem inevitable. And reading those three will not be simple.

While I'd obviously like to see mq post, I'm more worried about the semi-active WhiskyDelta and the recent joiner Spartan. I'm going to interpret whisky's commitment to digging into the game over the weekend as the promise of something juicy and committal. In the meantime.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Spartan,

, your posts thus far have consisted of a pointlessly brief summary of the Vasex/Somnus convo 137, lot of noncomittal townreads154 with a vote on Rad, a somewhat repetitive push on Rad 184 with an unexplained statement about rad/blue, a bit of thrown-out speculation you never follow up on 189, a small question 190, a random comment 193, and some very amiable mafia theory with Rad 197.

So the interaction with Rad was useful, as it put them under pressure, but you haven't really done anything else this game except give unprompted mafia theory and look very active. The

stronger

player you ostensibly think is scum you've left almost entirely alone. I wouldn't call your interactions with Blue scumhunting

because you let him ignore you.

Do you plan to actually scumhunt/pressure anyone, VOTE: Spartan117?

[Rad]

Btw, my first post contained no summaries of events

I was referring to post 69. I read this post and wrote down this note about you:

"Summarizing Somnus's activity based on stuff others of us are saying. Useful or pretending to be useful? (SUS)"

So basically I wasn't sure what to think about it, but it stood out as something to take note of and keep an eye on.

I acknowledge you give reasonable explanations in 160, although I still see them as points about RVS posts in a post-RVS point in the game

Sorry this feels like a really meta thing to consider. I had to look up what RVS meant and I can't currently recognize when this "stage" of day 1 has completed. Sounds like an experience thing. Not to say I don't have experience with this game, but back when I used to play, I'd never run into that idea before.

Ok, so this will keep happening. I guess townpoints for reading my readslist, but yes, that was a joke, I have not ruled out the possibility that vasex is buddying hard. I'm being facetious around vasex. With D1 play like theirs, it's that or lim them.

I sat there and looked back and forth at your Vasex read vs your Spartan read in post 156, and couldn't reconcile the stance you took between the two. Before I got too wrapped up in the inconsistency, I realized you were probably just making a vasex style joke about vasex, and wanted to make sure before making that a big deal (which it's not).

I've been thinking similar things about Spartan that you're pointing out.

[Bellaphant]

Not to be all Somnus, but @spartan, can you link me to the newbie we did together? I can't seem to find it.

[Rad]

So something I like to do is take my heavy town reads and really scrutinize them.

So I looked at Bella. Why do I think Bella is town?

#6 - random vote
#16 - info about availability
#31 - nothing
#35 - talking about another game
#37 - talking about another game
#40 - gives some theory, points out the obvious that convo about vasex isn't helpful
#67 - agrees with me about vasex
#71 - points out the obvious that somnus martyring himself is a bad idea
#72 - says he town reads me and cheap
#76 - points out more obvious bad town moves. Sets himself up to elim vasex at some point when he gets tired of the memes
#78 - pressures somnus and...
#82 - unvotes somnus because somnus magically convinced him
#87 - is here in time to ask mq for input
#102 - suggests day 1 is a crapshoot and we shouldn't care about it. Questions Italiano's content but doesn't follow up on it.
#103 - random vote on mq bosco
#122 - new guy is in, time to talk about stuff outside the game
#139 - summarizes somnus's play, throws shade on me
#141 - clarifies mq bosco vote
#159 - throws more shade on me
#199 - weak question on BlueBloodedToffee (which was easily responded to by BlueBloodedToffee), throws shade on him
#201 - Keeps vasex open to elim, talks more about outside this game
#213 - talks more about another game

A note I have about Bella from early:

"Bellaphant & Somnus - not a scum team"

A scum!Bella makes a town!Somnus, town!Vasex, town!BlueBloodedToffee (maybe), and town!mq

I think my initial assessment of him was based on him making me feel correct in my reads. Trying to be more objective about this, I don't think that makes him town, and looking at his input for this game so far, I don't actually see him doing anything useful for town.

VOTE: Bellaphant

Sorry I don't know how to easily turn those #page references into a link. I was turning them into a link with my previous post by manually typing out the post code but there's too many here to do that. If there's a shortcut, please someone let me know

[whiskey delta]

Bella - 71, 76, 78 saved a potential early game derail. 102 sort of echoes my feelings about Italiano. The whole "nobody took the bait on my joke" thing starts getting into LAMIST territory for me. Would have preferred to see the vote follow that up in 103 but I ~get the move here. I like the interaction with BBT in 193. The bits about being terrified of rolling Mafia read genuine on its face. Overall I get a more "monitoring" than "directing" traffic vibe.

Somnus - Question Gate kicked the game off fairly well and looking at their posts in ISO give me the impression they legit thought they caught something. The bit in 79 about "Townies should never lie" reminds me of when I was a newer player but maybe a tad overboard in the justification there. Not as big a fan of the stuff before that either because no one was actually going to take up that offer seriously so it makes it meaningless to say. Overall wouldn't call them scummy but the martyr shtick never leaves a good aftertaste.

Cheapside - 69 mentions some of the same things irt Somnus although I wouldn't take my read that far as to SR them. 156 is a lot better, in my opinion. The bit about "expecting weirder takes" and needing to possibly review Somnus scum games mirrors my own thoughts there. Still haven't reviewed Rad yet but I will look into this read a bit more closely and the same with Spartan. Not the biggest fan of pushing for lurker elims at this point in the game, LHF is LHF, but the sentiment is ~safe. Probably NAI but I look forward to seeing you progress on your read of me from this point onward.

Vasex - I can already tell this one is going to be really hard for me to figure out so hopefully I can rely on some good VCA or something. 152 would be better with more fleshed out reasons but I don't hate the quick and dirty reads for where we are in the game. The meta on mq.bosco in 208 is interesting and I would want to hear bosco's take on that in return. Slightly worried that could be a pocket play in a world where town!mq is being defended by scum!Vasex but I don't want to get ahead of myself since there's nothing else that really ~bothers me about them yet.

Pausing for now. I'll finish the other 4 later tonight after my kids are in bed

[Rad]

Now for Vasex, my other heavy town read:

#10 - random vote
#12 - town read on cheapside, joking
#14 - joke
#18 - joke
#19 - content creating question
#21 - answered Italiano's questions
#23 - replying to somnus early game stuff
#25 - joke
#26 - replying to somnus early game stuff
#32 - joke
#33 - joke
#48 - joke
#90 - town read on somnus
#105 - scum read on Italiano, and jokes
#143 - scum read on BlueBloodedToffee
#145 - explanation of read, as a joke
#147 - pressuring BlueBloodedToffee
#149 - town read on mq
#150 - trying to get cheapside to unvote somnus (cause he has town read on somnus)
#152 - listed town reads, reinforces scum read on BlueBloodedToffee
#153 - edit by way of correction
#171 - clarifies mq town read with meta explanation, and scum read on italiano/BlueBloodedToffee
#174 - pressuring BlueBloodedToffee
#176 - getting content out of BlueBloodedToffee
#178 - pressuring BlueBloodedToffee
#186 - applying pressure to cheap with me
#187 - preserving town, guarding from bad wagons
#188 - explanation of not being active enough (but you are! it's ok vasex, you're doing great)
#208 - detailed explanation about mq

Awesome town play by vasex. OR he's scum team with mq, but I think he's just meta-ing that relationship too hard. I'm betting town here.

[Rad]

Bella - 71, 76, 78 saved a potential early game derail. 102 sort of echoes my feelings about Italiano. The whole "nobody took the bait on my joke" thing starts getting into LAMIST territory for me. Would have preferred to see the vote follow that up in 103 but I ~get the move here. I like the interaction with BBT in 193. The bits about being terrified of rolling Mafia read genuine on its face. Overall I get a more "monitoring" than "directing" traffic vibe.

I appreciate your full post, but let's talk about Bella.

"saved a potential early game derail":

#71 - It's not like he was the leader here, in his own words: "Three people have told you that this is silly. We can't all be scum."
#76 - Still just reinforcing what others have said, and throws in some shade on Vasex that he can use later.
#78 - A scum!Bella would know if Vasex is town. He'd also know if he's scum and is trying to save him. Regardless, Somnus's stance on this was ridiculous and easy to defend against. He finishes by claiming he just doesn't understand somnus but doesn't really direct him in any way that helps produce more good content. Also note that he just drops the vote on Somnus in #82 because somnus said something that Bella thought was magically town (and never explains).

#102 - yeah it's a weird interaction and he goes nowhere with it. Why does him claiming it's weird and you thinking it's weird make him town?

You get the move on mq with #103. Sure, I do too. But why pressure mq over Italiano if he thinks that Italiano's move was scummy?

He can be sincere about being terrified of being mafia while still being mafia. It's a legit emotion. It's not a town read.

How does "monitoring" help town? If he's a proven role, sure, monitor away. He's not. He's potential scum and monitoring is the same as not contributing.

[Rad]

Before whiskey posts his next 4...

I want to say there's a strong potential for Bella/whiskey scum team.

His reads:

Bella - just love
Somnus - leaves shade
Cheap - buddying up to cheap. Is it because cheap is putting in analysis effort?
Vasex - leaves shade

Non-commital. No strong takes. There's a ton of content in this game already, I expect more here.

[whiskey delta]

Bella - 71, 76, 78 saved a potential early game derail. 102 sort of echoes my feelings about Italiano. The whole "nobody took the bait on my joke" thing starts getting into LAMIST territory for me. Would have preferred to see the vote follow that up in 103 but I ~get the move here. I like the interaction with BBT in 193. The bits about being terrified of rolling Mafia read genuine on its face. Overall I get a more "monitoring" than "directing" traffic vibe.

I appreciate your full post, but let's talk about Bella.

"saved a potential early game derail":

#71 - It's not like he was the leader here, in his own words: "Three people have told you that this is silly. We can't all be scum."
#76 - Still just reinforcing what others have said, and throws in some shade on Vasex that he can use later.
#78 - A scum!Bella would know if Vasex is town. He'd also know if he's scum and is trying to save him. Regardless, Somnus's stance on this was ridiculous and easy to defend against. He finishes by claiming he just doesn't understand somnus but doesn't really direct him in any way that helps produce more good content. Also note that he just drops the vote on Somnus in #82 because somnus said something that Bella thought was magically town (and never explains).

#102 - yeah it's a weird interaction and he goes nowhere with it. Why does him claiming it's weird and you thinking it's weird make him town?

You get the move on mq with #103. Sure, I do too. But why pressure mq over Italiano if he thinks that Italiano's move was scummy?

He can be sincere about being terrified of being mafia while still being mafia. It's a legit emotion. It's not a town read.

How does "monitoring" help town? If he's a proven role, sure, monitor away. He's not. He's potential scum and monitoring is the same as not contributing.

#71 - This is true but looking at the stream of posts on the page you'll see what I mean.
#76 - Throwing shade. okay maybe? I don't think the statement in itself is harmful - I said the same thing too.
#78 - The questions asked in the post that were answered by Somnus following was good content imo.

They took off their vote and it was laid again within three (ISO) posts following mq.bosco's entrance and subsequent exit. At this stage in the game there really is no "good" reason to vote anyone per se, so I'm not bothered by that so much. Bella pokes bosco in 87 before voting them so it didn't come out of nowhere either. I mentioned the same thing irt Italiano but that's something they can explain themselves. I would say generally they are using their vote in a positive way.

How do you normally approach reading players? It's obviously not as simple as I agree with someone therefore they get a TR, but I know what lens I am looking at the game thru so when I see similar stuff I tend to note that. A lot of it is tone reading too. I have played with people in the past who crattered as scum, so if what they are saying is true then I don't get that sense here.

I suppose the traffic analogy wasn't very good, so I'll try to explain better. I didn't mean that to say they are watching and not contributing, but more that they are present and involved but not pushing an agenda.

[Rad]

I looked through Spartan's posts again.

He's new to the game so hasn't had a chance to play much (7 posts). The guy he replaced made no posts.

He's already given some significant stances (voted me, pressuring BlueBloodedToffee, pressuring Vasex, town read on Somnus)

He's given town more material in 7 posts than Bella has in 23.

Let's say he's scum and survives Day 1. He's already established what kind of input he plans to give to this game. This level of input is really difficult to continue in late game as scum. And @Cheap if your assessment of him is correct, that he's being mostly useless, he won't be able to dig himself out of that.

@Cheap - what do you think of Bella and my read on him? What do you think about changing your vote from Spartan to Bella?

[whiskey delta]

Before whiskey posts his next 4...

I want to say there's a strong potential for Bella/whiskey scum team.

His reads:

Bella - just love
Somnus - leaves shade
Cheap - buddying up to cheap. Is it because cheap is putting in analysis effort?
Vasex - leaves shade

Non-commital. No strong takes. There's a ton of content in this game already, I expect more here.

Yikes.

Jumping the gun a bit, aren't we? I haven't even finished lol

[Rad]

Before whiskey posts his next 4...

I want to say there's a strong potential for Bella/whiskey scum team.

His reads:

Bella - just love
Somnus - leaves shade
Cheap - buddying up to cheap. Is it because cheap is putting in analysis effort?
Vasex - leaves shade

Non-commital. No strong takes. There's a ton of content in this game already, I expect more here.

Yikes.

Jumping the gun a bit, aren't we? I haven't even finished lol

I think it's fair to give my read based on what you've given so far, even if you haven't finished But please, finish! I give my reads based on all available information at the moment, so the more information, the better.

[whiskey delta]

Just on this page I can tell that you are overthinking way too much and trying to hamfist your reads.

It's page 9. Let the game breathe a little bit - I've learned in my short time here that D1 on MS can be longgggggg

p-edit: Sure, comment away! Doesn't change what I said there or above.

[whiskey delta]

@BlueBloodedToffee I think you were talking to me with that accidental quote? So in response, I don't want to park my vote on mq until she's had a chance to respond to everything that's happened since her last visit. She's a null read for me and maybe she's just busy and hasn't gotten a chance to participate.

I'm fine with not voting someone right now, we have time to let the lurkers catch up.

You went from this...

So something I like to do is take my heavy town reads and really scrutinize them.

So I looked at Bella. Why do I think Bella is town?

#6 - random vote
#16 - info about availability
#31 - nothing
#35 - talking about another game
#37 - talking about another game
#40 - gives some theory, points out the obvious that convo about vasex isn't helpful
#67 - agrees with me about vasex
#71 - points out the obvious that somnus martyring himself is a bad idea
#72 - says he town reads me and cheap
#76 - points out more obvious bad town moves. Sets himself up to elim vasex at some point when he gets tired of the memes
#78 - pressures somnus and...
#82 - unvotes somnus because somnus magically convinced him
#87 - is here in time to ask mq for input
#102 - suggests day 1 is a crapshoot and we shouldn't care about it. Questions Italiano's content but doesn't follow up on it.
#103 - random vote on mq bosco
#122 - new guy is in, time to talk about stuff outside the game
#139 - summarizes somnus's play, throws shade on me
#141 - clarifies mq bosco vote
#159 - throws more shade on me
#199 - weak question on BlueBloodedToffee (which was easily responded to by BlueBloodedToffee), throws shade on him
#201 - Keeps vasex open to elim, talks more about outside this game
#213 - talks more about another game

A note I have about Bella from early:

"Bellaphant & Somnus - not a scum team"

A scum!Bella makes a town!Somnus, town!Vasex, town!BlueBloodedToffee (maybe), and town!mq

I think my initial assessment of him was based on him making me feel correct in my reads. Trying to be more objective about this, I don't think that makes him town, and looking at his input for this game so far, I don't actually see him doing anything useful for town.

VOTE: Bellaphant

Sorry I don't know how to easily turn those #page references into a link. I was turning them into a link with my previous post by manually typing out the post code but there's too many here to do that. If there's a shortcut, please someone let me know

Now for Vasex, my other heavy town read:

#10 - random vote
#12 - town read on cheapside, joking
#14 - joke
#18 - joke
#19 - content creating question
#21 - answered Italiano's questions
#23 - replying to somnus early game stuff
#25 - joke
#26 - replying to somnus early game stuff
#32 - joke
#33 - joke
#48 - joke
#90 - town read on somnus
#105 - scum read on Italiano, and jokes
#143 - scum read on BlueBloodedToffee
#145 - explanation of read, as a joke
#147 - pressuring BlueBloodedToffee
#149 - town read on mq
#150 - trying to get cheapside to unvote somnus (cause he has town read on somnus)
#152 - listed town reads, reinforces scum read on BlueBloodedToffee
#153 - edit by way of correction
#171 - clarifies mq town read with meta explanation, and scum read on italiano/BlueBloodedToffee
#174 - pressuring BlueBloodedToffee
#176 - getting content out of BlueBloodedToffee
#178 - pressuring BlueBloodedToffee
#186 - applying pressure to cheap with me
#187 - preserving town, guarding from bad wagons
#188 - explanation of not being active enough (but you are! it's ok vasex, you're doing great)
#208 - detailed explanation about mq

Awesome town play by vasex. OR he's scum team with mq, but I think he's just meta-ing that relationship too hard. I'm betting town here.

...to this within a couple of hours. you're definitely overthinking things but I think this probably makes you Town too.