Mini Normal 2276: Around the World - Game Over!

[scamper]

dats failed to shoot Alex because he's a nerd who doesn't know how to fire a gun properly

I feel like given mafia having daychat Johnny not knowing that might be towny???

or maybe he's just not reading the mafia PT either

im not sure forgetting what the claim is is AI but the paranoia mite b townie actually, ugh

UNVOTE:

[scamper]

I don’t like how half of Johnny’s “town reads” have a qualifier or dampening factor

Good catch.
Though, it could just be that those people are dominating the gamestate and constantly posting things that are likeable.

where do either of you see that? cuz all of his townreads look pretty unambiguous to me...

[scamper]

looking over the jf post it's pretty decent, i think i was just getting frustrated with his inactivity

meanwhile idk what marci is doing anymore...

[scamper]

its just weird cuz i thought 2282 was fine but now she seems uninterested in offering even the most basic of explanations...ig it might just be trying to frame an associative on freedom? idk

[scamper]

then type out a single sentence rather than going "just trust me", cuz what youre doing right now is unconvincing...

[scamper]

the comment about his playstyle made me take a look at some of johnnys games and this is similar to how he plays as town, which weakens my scumread on him...the caveat being i have no idea how to tell the difference when hes scum, cuz hes not very talkative as either alignment...

[scamper]

but whenever i actually give a read its like

idk how to word it in a lesser way so i just have to explain IT ALL

and usually ppl end up making me feel dumb anyways so then usually i end up quieting down on reads after i feel dumb abt it

and what i cucrrently have makes it look like yall will make me feel dumb about it

okay, listen

if you are actually town here, we need you to explain your reads. it's not about being right or wrong or whether you look smart or dumb. it's the fact that if you do not explain yourself we cannot possibly understand your thought process. if you can't understand how someone is thinking then it's impossible to figure out if that person is town. that's the entire point of why i've been rying to get you to explain things. everyone looks dumb in this game. there's no reason to be afraid of it. your first concern should be with making yourself readable to other people.

this is a game about communication at its heart and everyone refused to communicate for fear of looking dumb he game would be impossible

[scamper]

me trying to decide if i should continue after reading that

i'm trying to be helpful...

@scamper not everyone seems the same things from this game
Some play to win, some play for fun, some play to win because winning is fun, and some play for something else, like me who seems the social connection this game and site provides.

I'm not sure what your point is, exactly. I'm not talking about motivation for playing the game, I'm talking about the basis by which the game is played, which is communicating thoughts to one another

[scamper]

literally all im saying is, if you're town just explain what you're thinking and don't worry about anything else. you have the floor here. i'm not gunna say anything until you're done

[scamper]

i'm trying to be helpful...

by lecturing me?

i'm trying to encourage you to actually explain yourself, i really dont know why that bothered you so much

[scamper]

i'm trying to be helpful...

by lecturing me?

i'm trying to encourage you to actually explain yourself, i really dont know why that bothered you so much

how is it trying to be encouraging instead of lecturing

just stop worrying about looking dumb that is literally all i am saying

i am sorry if that post somehow offended you but it was not my intention

[scamper]

My gut is kind of saying this AtE is townie

y?

[scamper]

feels more likely to be town

Fuck it VOTE: Marci

besties wild

the way alex has been maneuvering with his votes is starting to sketch me out

[scamper]

its mainly a gutread, but theres things that i can pinpoint in his iso also

Spoiler:

like how hes mainly just bandwagony, esp the bella bandwagon i was not convinced he fully believed in it. i still think hes buddying ausuka as well.
i think the post i quoted like last night is a very convienent thing for him to say after the fact. its just dismissing whats hes done this game very easily, and clearly effectively if yall actually believe that shit?!?!?!
i think hes using the most basic solve (me/gamma was one he brought up a bit), which tbh theres not much wrong at a glance with that, but i dont feel like hes trying to analyze if thats truly it. it seems sort of like hes just accepted it without digging deeper into the value of what me and gamma have done towards eachother consodering the friendship we have out of games.
i also lowkey think hes using sussing me as a cover, but im not as cknfident in this point. like in the invictus game sure he thought i was scum the whole game, but eventually he moved on to just ignoring me and trying to solve the game otherwise, here he just keeps coming back for more which is super funny!!

idk it feels dumb writing it out

thank u for explaining it anyway

im not really sure any of this sells me on datisi-scum, but i kind of believe you believe this now

[scamper]

i don't feel like voting marci anymore

[scamper]

ugh sorry for being so indecisive >.>

gve me a minute to collect my thoughts here

[scamper]

bleh i'm sorry, i was too tired last night

[scamper]

i'm a little concerned because gamestate-wise it seems to be assumed that this is an easy game but the people in the poe aren't really playing like it's an easy game, none of them seem to care much

if freedom flips scum we're all good i guess amnd we can probably figure this out, i would expect the partner in gamma or johnny probably

if freedom is town and i die overnight, please take a second look at alex, because i'm paranoid of the way he's been treating his vote today and i can feel crescent screaming in my ear from the dead PT

that's all i guess

[scamper]

idk, its just a gamestate thing - if the scum are in {freedom, johnny, marci, gamma} what are they doing, what is their path to victory here? none of them seem to care to to try to change things, except marci sort of...

idk, maybe i'm overthinking it and getting too paranoid

[scamper]

atp i'm ready to end the day if everyone else is

[scamper]

not really interested in second-guessing on datisi right now

[scamper]

*sigh*

I'm not even sure where to begin right now...

I didn't think datisi was likely to be scum, but I am a little surprised he was the NK

[scamper]

datisi

scamper scum lolol

thats ur reaction to ur main scumread flipping town?

[scamper]

datisi

scamper scum lolol

thats ur reaction to ur main scumread flipping town?

what am i meant to react im at work for 50 more mins

boohoo datisi was town

omg i nearly fell why was i DIZZY

i mean i would expect some manner of re-evaluation rather than immediately turning around and calling me scum for ??? reasons

[scamper]

because...?

[scamper]

also: you concluded that within 10 minutes of the flip being posted?

[scamper]

what can i say? i live in the now

if you are town, i am begging you to take this at least a *little* seriously and actually talk to me, because if we lose because you decided to troll tunnel me in MELO i will be very upset, to say the least

[scamper]

and i realize we're at evens but please don't be careless with votes

[scamper]

im not trolling wtf rude

then why do u think im scum?

[scamper]

im not trolling wtf rude

then why do u think im scum?

ive changed my mind now

...

[scamper]

i can't deal with this rn

agree we should probably vote no elim atp

[scamper]

Why would scum Marci kill town datisi?

this logic is backwards: if marci and datisi are TvT, why does any scum team kill Datisi?

[scamper]

I don't think we should eliminate anyone today, to be serious for a moment.

I don't think we have anyone who really approaches clear status.

Here’s why the Datisi kill baffles me and makes me think Johnny has to be town if scamper is: scamper is the closest we have to a UTR. So that would be a) a priority kill and b) a priority protect. So if Johnny is scum and scamper is town, scamper should have died instead.

i mean if jf is scum he looks terrible if i get NKed so im not sure this works either...

[scamper]

VOTE: no elim

not saying anything further today

[scamper]

well, that's one major tinfoil i had gone at least. not looking forward to this, though

[scamper]

i'm a little paranoid of ausuka tbh but i can't really get into it

[scamper]

i probably should not be getting cleared solely off day 1 at this point (nor should anyone else), if you suspect me then state your reasons why

i'm also confused at why JF is being assumed to be town now...

[scamper]

what i'm going to do is look at every possible team and see what feels the most likely here

the one thing i feel confident on is the team is probably not ausuka/marci, nothing else strikes me as being able to be ruled out immediately

[scamper]

uh please don't be quick with votes

[scamper]

i'm worried about the possibility of gamma/jf being the team

[scamper]

can you please not vote right away

[scamper]

well the team isnt me/gamma, as if that wasnt obvious

[scamper]

I still think your reasoning was wrong I just think jf is probtown anyway

why, tho

[scamper]

idk what i think yet i just get really afraid when people rush votes in ELO cuz it rarely ends well

[scamper]

rereading gamma, i don't think gamma/ausuka are a team either based on how they interacted with each other on day 3 so i think ausuka is *only* scum if its with JF

[scamper]

the thing about these gamestates is that that a lot of the time its to townies that get paranoid and go at each others throats while mafia chills in the background and waits for them to mess up and gamma/JF kind of fits that model perfectly right now

[scamper]

ok...

i'm not saying that *has* to be the team but i am wary and want a chance to review before anyone casts a vote

[scamper]

See this is difficult because

Scamper I think I know who you are but can't be certain

But if I'm right I feel like you should have me as ~never scum right now???

I'm not going to out who I think you are because that would be rude but. Idk

is it that obvious >.>

[scamper]

tbh i had you as town prior to today but i got paranoid for dumb reasons i can't really go into. but looking at it rationally i don't think you're likely to be scum here, i just get nervous in these situations

[scamper]

gamma coming in and jumping on the suspicion of you is setting off red flags for me

[scamper]

hi, i just woke up and had breakfast, let me catch up a bit

[scamper]

Scamper I don't understand why you think Marci is town here like any substantial percentage of the time

idk, her approach right now does not make sense to me but it doesnt actually make sense as either alignment and sometimes people just play weird. im bnot sure the aggression is what id expect from scum!her

mainly i got worried because it felt like gammas play was sideline-y and she was seemingly playing both sides in the argument between you and marci and johnny has just not been townie at all

[scamper]

im not going to confirm or deny anything about my identity right now

[scamper]

Scamper is good as town

If they are town they think it's you and Johnny and I want to give them a chance

the min thing i saw very quickly when looking through last night was that jf has had gamma as a suspect pretty much the whole game but never really pushed her and gammas read on jf was extremely hedgey and to me it just makes the most sense as a team right now

[scamper]

also if i was scum with marci, there is basically no way i wagon her day 1 if shes my only group teammate, and i feel like u should know this

[scamper]

what do u make of my johnny tr from yday scamper?

i haven't gotten to it yet, quote it for me

the thing about johnny is he seemed to turn around from being a POE slot to being a near-universal townread yesterday and i have no idea hiow it happened, he feels like a slot scum should be trying to miselim if hes town and i have a hard time imagining scum just abandoned the chance tpo get him voted, it makes more sense to me if his partner saw him getting townread by alex and tried to take advantage of the read

[scamper]

Scamper I don't understand why you think Marci is town here like any substantial percentage of the time

idk, her approach right now does not make sense to me but it doesnt actually make sense as either alignment and sometimes people just play weird. im bnot sure the aggression is what id expect from scum!her

mainly i got worried because it felt like gammas play was sideline-y and she was seemingly playing both sides in the argument between you and marci and johnny has just not been townie at all

I mean I feel like this argument only works up to a point surely?

Like, I feel like it's based on an assumption that Marci is a kind of person she is not, and she's been taking advantage of thinking like this the entire game. I really really do not see this as town!her at this point.

Like, when I bring up the obvious contradictions she just obfuscates and dodges and changes the subject

I really think she's doing this on purpose.

idk, it is possible i am just too paranoid because she seems 'easy' but i want to at least get a chance to speak with her first

[scamper]

speaking of which, where did marci go

[scamper]

ok, np, take ur time replying, work has priority

[scamper]

LIKE LITERALLY WHOS MY TEAMMATE

EVERYONE WANTS ME DEAD

WHY THE HELL ARE WE NOT TRYING TO PULL OUT THE W TODAY THEN?

STOP BEING SO STUCK IN YOUR TUNNEL AND ACTUALLY REEVALUATE THE GAME IN GOOD FAITH !! I KNOW ITS HARD FOR U CLOWNS BUT U NEED TO OR ELSE NO CHANCE OF WINNING CAUSE OF HOW IDIOTIC THIS TOWN IS

I WAS CLEARLY MEANT TO BE THE MISELIM TODAY YALL ARE CLOWNSSSSS

ok so, setting aside the ate for a moment: if you are town, who is the team supposed to be right now?

[scamper]

if youre the 'designated' miselim who are the ones pushing it?

[scamper]

i dont understand what u mean by that

[scamper]

ok...

i get being paranoid of me here, rationally, if youve been burned before but i feel like you have to evaluate my play rationally rather than looking at it through a lens of me being good scum and so defaulting to not trusting anything i say

is there a reason you suspect me, other than believing i could be playing a good scumgame?

[scamper]

vote me

are you going to answer me...?

[scamper]

marci what is your solve supposed to be right now?

[scamper]

marci what is your solve supposed to be right now?

i think johnnys town

i think ausukas scum

im then ? on thd other 2 cuz i can see either way

(also btw this is off memory)

okay

2945 felt weird to me because it seems to take the implied perspective that ausuka is town not reevaluating you although i guess it was addressed to a general audience, it was just that she was the one arguing with you the most at that time

y is johnny town?

[scamper]

Yeah

I mean, before I talk, I am going to do a deeper dive into your iso and especially interactions with marci before we end the day, as I said I'm not just going to random Lim you for being good at scum.

But I think the way you played your cards early today was scummy. Like, rationally I would understand being paranoid of me here. But I think you're one of the only people who wouldn't be, and I think it's very convenient for you to keep your options open at the start of the day - especially if you're scum with Marci, for example, because in that scenario there's a very obvious path to victory where Gamma votes for me and it's useful to pressure me. While I'm obviously not an expert scum player, I feel like even if you were planning to townread me eventually, it's a good idea for you as scum to play up the paranoia aspect so I feel more pressured and would townread you more if you came to my rescue so to speak.

None of this would matter much if I thought you were likely to express that paranoia as town but again you're one of the only people who I believe wouldn't do that. This would always be +scum but there are explanations that would be at least somewhat believable. However, when I asked you about it earlier, you seemed aware that you shouldn't really be expressing suspicion of me here and called it stupid and backtracked. I think fundamentally you did not think I had any idea who you were, and I think that's why you took the approach you did at the start of the day.

I also tend to think you work well as a Marci partner. Your push on her d1 was good, and I need to run a double check on everything I'm saying here because I'm not super confident in it but I don't think your interaction with the Marci wagon late d1 was that towny - you pushed Corwin heavily instead, which obviously isn't a fault with town you because Corwin was indeed scum but mafia you did not know that. jF and gamma are fine with me pushing Marci, which yeah could indicate they are scum together, but if they're not it points more to you since I think in elo bussing rates tend to go down a lot - I can see scum you going for a JF elim here and I think player to player that's a fight you win a big majority of the time if that makes sense.

i'm just going to say i got paranoid of you to start the day because of a thought i had overnight, but i *really can't explain why* and leave it at that because i can't get further into it. i wish i could say that stuff but i really can't. you're right that i changed my mind quickly but some if it was in seeing how you responded to me that didnt really feel scummy and part of it was realizing that regardless of how i fett about you there werent many teams that made sense for you to actually be a part of. i don't think scum!me even hints at suspecting you here, i just keep townreading you. i dont discourage you from crossvoting marci especially when gamma came into the day suspecting you,i probably just hang back and let you two go at each other and see if gamma votes you. i dont think i keep defending marci in this way when it seems like evryone else has decided shes scum, like this is just shutting ff all paths to victory if im scum

anyway, if you could, like, tell me if you think johnny/gamma makes sense or if theres a reason to rule that team out b/c that is my main concern right nw and why i didnt want a cross yet

[scamper]

Scamper are you seeing this

Do you *really* think town Marci trolls me like this
Like I know it doesn't make much sense for scum on the surface either but I think it's much more likely she's scum who doesn't fe confident in faking a genuine thought process and is therefore trying to just take refuge in audacity and make up nonsense like she has been all game

i have no idea anymore...

i thought the earlier petulance in the face of pressure was maybe a townie thing but i cant seem to get any actual substance out of her and idk what shes doing anymore

[scamper]

yeah that's fine, if i could wipe away my doubts there i would feel a lot more at ease

[scamper]

still thinking ausuka and bella are town

scamper is spewed town from corwin's iso, and i think crescent's play around corwin really isn't scum

i don't remember why i was townreading gamma, but i'm gonna trust past!datisi

and with great sorrow i announce that i found a progression from marcistar that, in this economy, i really doubt comes from scum

so that leaves: alex, johnny, std, freedom

VOTE: johnny

i'm gonna sheep scamper for the time being. i'll try to figure out what's what at some point

JF you wanna actually bother to explain your read on me?

VOTE: johnnyfarrar

Hmm this feels important but idk what to think

Like i guess it is just like ... it could be a bus vote but doesn't have to be? Idk I'd like to hear what you think about it I suppose

the thing thats weird to me is its just "explan your read on me" but theres not more to it and its at a time when a wagon is building on jf, so like, i dont think a bus is that outlandish? to me if anything i get worried about a vote like that when the reasoning isnt there

[scamper]

Hmm this kind of feels town?? Like the part where he's calling you basically conftown but also is kind of aggressive towards you. Like it doesn't feel super image conscious?

Also part of me feels like if Gamma is scum with Johnny he probably unvotes after you do since it's the perfect excuse to do so and from what he's said this game I feel like he probably genuinely isn't a massive fan of bussing for 'no reason'

ehh, maybe

[scamper]

I mean in the first post I wasn't saying a bus was outlandish

I could easily see gamma bussing there but also like I don't think there's much evidence to show that was happening? Like it could have happened but. I don't know I don't really feel like gamma is scum here?

Maybe I shouldn't play mafia at night but oh welll

ok, fair enuf

[scamper]

thats fine, get some sleep, we have time still anyway

[scamper]

i'm here, just acknowledging the vote

[scamper]

acknowledged, i guess

[scamper]

VOTE: marcistar

eh if it's inevitable i think we should just do it now

[scamper]

sorry >.>

[scamper]

I TRIED MY BEST OK

AN EFFORT WAS MADE

it was...not an easy game for own, in a lot of ways i feel kind of bad about

i had fun playing with you all though!

[scamper]

I had fun playing with you too scamper

I feel like you sold your soul to the devil in return for unfair amounts of ability at the mafia game though

But you're still fun to play with

u don't know the half of it

will wait for the mod to post the end though

[scamper]

I'm now expecting a two hundred page mafia PT in which scamper writes a novel about how to impeccably play as the mafia alignment and details every aspect of my personality and how I can be easily manipulated

tbf i stumbled in my approach to you to start the day and you were *mostly* completely right in your assessment of it, it gave me a good scare

[scamper]

sorry <3

game is hard sometimes

[scamper]

nah it's over, i wouldn't troll


well, not when it comes to that, anyway

[scamper]

why the fuck did you not just hammer when ausuka and marci crossed

wasn't an intentional slowroll, i swear

johnny just wasn't online when they voted and i overplayed my hand in acting panicked about the cross

sorry if you felt like your time was wasted

[scamper]

I should probably just stop playing mafia again

no please!

[scamper]

I mean, I know but scamper intervened to get us to unvote which is why I kind of ruled out them and you, I thought it would be slowrolling

i didn't want to look like i was hammersitting, if i could go back in time i'd do it differently but my mindset was i wanted to act like i didn't want the cross

i had been assuming one of you would be too tunneled to unvote, if i could go back and do it differently i prob would

again, sorry, was not intentional at all

[scamper]

I'm now expecting a two hundred page mafia PT in which scamper writes a novel about how to impeccably play as the mafia alignment and details every aspect of my personality and how I can be easily manipulated

tbf i stumbled in my approach to you to start the day and you were *mostly* completely right in your assessment of it, it gave me a good scare

you see, there was one key detail you got wrong...

[scamper]

...i'm not actually skitter

[scamper]

i just thought it would be fun to play like her on an alt, but it turned out my impression was *too* good, i was laughing to myself that u got paranoid of me because of it

i don't, like, want people to actually think i'm her though because then it would be weird

[scamper]

Oof, GG and thanks for modding Pooky

Idk why I died N1 but it was clutch, I'd targeted Marci and would've been able to conftown her.

uh part of it was you were generally townread + felt people from the hood would have been assumed clear, johnny thought you would point away from hm. i didn't say it in the topic but based on our roles i kind of setup-spec guessed that there were likely to be PRs in the hood (i was a complex tracker rolecop). was a happy accident that you were the investigative, of course

[scamper]

so reading the dead pt, corwin blowing up at me wasn't intentional theater? i'll be honest, i was very confused by it and upset at first, it worked out for the best tho. i hope he's, uh, doing all right now

sorry roden <3 i know you die n1 a lot and i felt bad about it but i had to make what i thought was the best strategic play

[scamper]

yeah uh sorry for fucking everything up lmao

im guessing the redacted posts were probably about my d1? i mean whatever

will probs limit my involvement in mafia after current gmaes

>.>

i had kind of thought you might be traitor, it wasn't all about you though, stuff about how certain people were playing, won't name names


please don't be too hard on yourself, i know it sucks hard right now but it happens sometimes and everyone has been there before

[scamper]

full disclosure i first thought scamper was koba which is why i was prepared to go absolutely BALLISTIC if they kept scumreading me

then i realized they're not koba

maybe it would've been better if i hadn't realized that LMAO

i figured it was something like that, lol

[scamper]

this town had a total of three roles that could "conftown" themselves through nightplay -

2 Vigilantes and 1 Friendly Neighbor. Restrictions were put on these roles along with giving the Mafia a JKer so there would be counterplay aspects.

In addition the town had a Traffic Analyst that was essentially a Neapolitan who could create confirmed innos prior to scum being eliminated - another very powerful role that unfortunately was killed too early.

The scum had a split team of 2 + traitor and the traitor was also a jailkeeper so there would be issues with coordinating between choosing to kill a power role versus blocking it with a JK and possibly causing your team to lose their nightkill - this was designed to create confusion in the night with the vigilantes since it could be that the mafia have their nightkill blocked by their own JK while a vig shot flies through and kills someone.

ya, i think a lot of things kind of worked out...very unfortunately for town here

the roles were a little weird but i dont think that in and of itself was what caused problems, other than people wrongly clearing johnny for his claim

[scamper]

the doc is mafia, though >.>

[scamper]

Like

I have tried looking at setup reviews that have been released

I still don't really get what assumptions I'm supposed to make.

It kind of feels like sometimes players are expected to make assumptions and if that's accounted for in the balance, but there are also setups which try to punish players for outguessing the mod with curveballs? Like idk. Maybe I'm just an idiot who doesn't get it.

i will echo this, fwiw, and i'm not really a fan of what the normal queue is right now but i dont put the blame for that on pooky in particular

[scamper]

i think if i was in your position i would have struggled with it as well

[scamper]

@scamper

Part of it was natural, I was really frustrated exactly while I was typing that because my wife came in to start arguing with me. I meant to come across as a little angry at first and it just really flowed after that. Mainly I was hoping to signal that I was the traitor, and I thought the second of those posts did it, and everyone missed it... I was surprised I was willing to be that blatant.

It was SO hard to buy you as scum, Scamper, after the way Corwin blew up at you on D1, that was crazy convincing

I lucked into this, really. I had so much RL stuff going on and I was so stressed I played absolutely awful. The reads on me were mostly right-for-the-wrong-reasons, but I felt like I could have and should have done a lot better.

Traitor's hard, I didn't really know what to do, and replacing into that even as an inactive slot with the game ahead of me already was like... oof. I think I was working uphill at that point anyway.

ah

well i didn't think you would vote me out of the blue if you were traitor when no one else was pushing me so i decided to case you. i did start to worry it might be you when you blew up on me because i was worried it might be, like, anger that i was pushing you (JF was actually more vocal about you being possible traitor in the topic), but at that point it had kind of already sealed your fate

i agree you were probably dealt a difficult hand to work with given your position in-game, but you were kind of MVP even if it wasnt really intentional, hope theres no hard feelings about how day 1 went

sorry you had to deal with all that stuff irl, best of luck in the future