Open 861: The Turing Test [game over]

[Loki Dokie]

I think the main thing GL picked up on with fire that appealed to me was that they seemed to have a post-hoc justification for a read that didn't come off to me as an entirely natural train of though. Rather, it felt like it could have been someone searching for a reason to support that read. The whole logical error part of the argument is less enticing to me. Town make logical errors in their thinking all the time, it's more the feeling that it wasn't a natural train of thought for fire that lead me to like GL's argument.

I'll chicken out and say fire is still a pretty mixed read. They strike me as a good player and while the stuff GL is putting pressure on has me suspicious I think I need a much larger volume of content from them to develop a better read.

Meanwhile, Roden's pop-in was lacking a lot to be desired. It took the form of that cookie-cutter scum pop-in that I tend towards a lot when I have a red PM.
1.

place a vote down on an easy to push townie

2. throw out a read for content
3. make one more post about anything to appear natural

more votes here

Roden is right about one thing, It’s extremely hard to miselim me. And most players who pocket me usually wind up to be players who initially jumped on me for silly reasons because it’s so difficult to tell the difference between actual town who changed their mind and scum doing the same thing. Of course Kitty was obviously an exception.

I thought you were mislim bait and that was your whole paranoid shtick this game.....probably doesn't matter but yeah

If a relatively inexperienced player like furtive can see its bs, how does an experienced player like Dann not see it?

[Loki Dokie]

@RR what do you think of my arguments for Dann!scum? You seemed to have ignored all of them to focus on paranoing GL.

[Loki Dokie]

Did I miss anything?

Yeah, I’m not sr him for not recognizing who I am. I’m sr him for not reacting to fire’s unvote of me and why. I also know that he correctly alt read in a previous game, so I don’t believe that he had no clue who I might be after fire’s unvote.

I also find him simultaneously calling my reaction “weird” with saying him voting me was “funnier”, doesn’t makea whole lot of sense.m

Calling my reaction “weird” means possible scum but juxtaposing that with voting me is “funnier” strikes me as tmi tr me.

Also, the sheer number of srs he threw out is very atypical for Dann. And the only game I think he was probably ever obvtown was Forrest Fire but he played very differently there. His srs were very focused and you could see how it made actual sense from a townie perspective and yes, he had way more trs than srs.

Also I think he might have slipped when he mixed up Kitty and Kuti.

[Loki Dokie]

long answer short my vote on fire isn't doing anything right now

your reaction to him and me is weird

and voting you is just funnier right now

I see both of these thoughts as being inconsistent. Why would he think my reaction was funny if he actually thought I was possibly scum or “weird”?

It reads like he knew he needed to somehiw justify his bad vote on me, which makes it read insincere.

[Loki Dokie]

I mean his vote on me. It’s only “funnier” if his intention was to troll me. And why would he want to troll me as scum? If he genuinely sr me my reaction or thought it “weird”, than why his vote on me funny?

Very obvious perspective slip with this.

[Loki Dokie]

Spoiler:

We are currently in rvs so nothing is pinging me as awkward or stiff in an uncomfortable mafia way yet.

How do I share photos

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

idk what the optimal way to play it is but i just know that town!you would be thinking about it

wouldn't scum!Ari be thinking about how town!Ari would play and how town!Ari would think about it? I don't think this is a town indicative thing

shhhh im letting her pocket me

i think its slightly town indicative. i don't think that ari's main priority as scum is to match how she'd play as town, and i don't think most people would really would have that reaction or that she would expect them to. so if it was performative it was a very directed performance

Why are you trying to pocket her

they seem to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek

but the random town reads from Aristeia make me uneasy, especially in this setup

this sounds like a post made by someone who feels obligated to start posting real content but doesn't really have much to say yet

Code: Select all

Do you believe this is due to AI programming, or a simple human instinct?

Is this going to be a game long gimmick

I'm going to be honest none of these posts or the bolded questions inside of them really feel like genuine thoughts to me. Or rather, they are very surface level questions pushed out so that you have something to say

I'm not really getting the sense you actually want the answers to any of these questions nor that you hope some productivity will spark out of them. I might be being unfair if this is a strategy you've relied on in the past but the first one especially pings me because it strikes me as highly unlikely that anyone would be able to get reasonable value out of trawling through past games of a bunch of players they are unfamiliar with

as the very first step

to getting to know them. It seems like a way to seem productive but actually avoid having to prod people about this game. Instead it would seem more natural to me if you were prodding people about this game.

granted, you are doing that too... sorta. but "how to post photos" and the "is this going to be a game long gimmick" are both questions that like don't really require an answer, or I'm not sure what value you're hoping to gain by posting them in thread

i also find the part of the fireisred's post that you latched onto like the least interesting part because it seems clearly jokey

Yes we are in RVS and you claim nothing has been pinging you as off - but that means I expect your following questions to be trying to prod people that you think are off or just trying to get people out of their comfort zone, but I feel like I'm seeing more just posts to fill space

pedit:

it is very possible your playstyle is more fluffy here and I am misreading you based off that. how would you describe how you're trying to play this early game?

Another really odd take. Its really not unusual to not have anything particularly pinging you during rvs. It’s far more usual for scum to jump on this sort of thing though.

Aei jumped on Kitty for being inconsistent not for not doing enough. This kind of take makes sense post-rvs but it’s once again an over the top reaction.

[Loki Dokie]

Spoiler:

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

I don't really like this

kutiplz have you gotten any value out of reading cold meta in the past?

Yep I like to do this when I'm new to sites so I can familiarize myself about how people play and their micro tells like sentence/word/behavioral tells

Hi Dann, *waits politely to the side*

You can view old games by clicking on the player name then going to view topics and it will show you all the places they've posted in, most of which should be games unless they're social.

Fair enough, I just assume people play on sites outside of ms

I'm here. Town obviously.
No reads yet.

But the cake is a lie

Scum.

Basically reading how people play helps me read them better so. I'm not misunderstanding them due to play style reasons. I think I make sense to people that aren't me?

Hi Dann, *waits politely to the side*

You can view old games by clicking on the player name then going to view topics and it will show you all the places they've posted in, most of which should be games unless they're social.

Fair enough, I just assume people play on sites outside of ms

Nobody ever links those games unless you harass them. For the best, I swear they have a policy of posting totally differently depending on the website they're on.

Spoiler:

We are currently in rvs so nothing is pinging me as awkward or stiff in an uncomfortable mafia way yet.

How do I share photos

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

idk what the optimal way to play it is but i just know that town!you would be thinking about it

wouldn't scum!Ari be thinking about how town!Ari would play and how town!Ari would think about it? I don't think this is a town indicative thing

shhhh im letting her pocket me

i think its slightly town indicative. i don't think that ari's main priority as scum is to match how she'd play as town, and i don't think most people would really would have that reaction or that she would expect them to. so if it was performative it was a very directed performance

Why are you trying to pocket her

they seem to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek

but the random town reads from Aristeia make me uneasy, especially in this setup

this sounds like a post made by someone who feels obligated to start posting real content but doesn't really have much to say yet

Code: Select all

Do you believe this is due to AI programming, or a simple human instinct?

Is this going to be a game long gimmick

I'm going to be honest none of these posts or the bolded questions inside of them really feel like genuine thoughts to me. Or rather, they are very surface level questions pushed out so that you have something to say

I'm not really getting the sense you actually want the answers to any of these questions nor that you hope some productivity will spark out of them. I might be being unfair if this is a strategy you've relied on in the past but the first one especially pings me because it strikes me as highly unlikely that anyone would be able to get reasonable value out of trawling through past games of a bunch of players they are unfamiliar with

as the very first step

to getting to know them. It seems like a way to seem productive but actually avoid having to prod people about this game. Instead it would seem more natural to me if you were prodding people about this game.

granted, you are doing that too... sorta. but "how to post photos" and the "is this going to be a game long gimmick" are both questions that like don't really require an answer, or I'm not sure what value you're hoping to gain by posting them in thread

i also find the part of the fireisred's post that you latched onto like the least interesting part because it seems clearly jokey

Yes we are in RVS and you claim nothing has been pinging you as off - but that means I expect your following questions to be trying to prod people that you think are off or just trying to get people out of their comfort zone, but I feel like I'm seeing more just posts to fill space

pedit:

it is very possible your playstyle is more fluffy here and I am misreading you based off that. how would you describe how you're trying to play this early game?

Dann already knew Kuti was nrw to the site and just like him not at all reacting to fire unvoting me, he fails to take any of that into account. Contrast this with Bell’s reaction which is focused on being helpful.

Bell doesn’t look to be having any agenda with his posting. That is a strong alignment tell in general. Again. Ari had valid reasons to push Kitty but Dann didn’t have valid reasons here to push Kuti.

[Loki Dokie]

long answer short my vote on fire isn't doing anything right now

your reaction to him and me is weird

and voting you is just funnier right now

I see both of these thoughts as being inconsistent. Why would he think my reaction was funny if he actually thought I was possibly scum or “weird”?

It reads like he knew he needed to somehiw justify his bad vote on me, which makes it read insincere.

I don't really think this is as big a slip as you think it is. In tandem with everything else though... yeah, I'm coming around to Dann looking worse than kuti.


Problem I have though is that it could just be because kuti doesn't have that many posts with which to appear scummy... But it's probably fine. Deal with it after the flips.

But why is Dann even paired with someone like Kuti if they’re scum here? Wouldn’t you think scum would choose more of a deep wolf hypothetically to pair with town!Dann? My initial reaction was to vote Kuti until GL made me question that and then and only then, did I decide to seriously case both of them.

I think scum wanted us to take the most superficial stance and just auto-assume that they wifommed us with Dann!town and it actually fits, so long as you don’t actually look deeper and realize how agenday Dann’s posts actually are and how there’s actually really nothing particularly scummy about any of Kuti’s posting but scum was obviously logically counting on lazy town not bothering to do that, because they usually don’t bother.

I usually don’t do as much as a deep dive in most games but it’s not really all that hard when you only have to bother with two players. It’s almost like a mini elo.

[Loki Dokie]

Wolves down bad.

Not to form a wolfy little narrative but I kind of want to bumrush through this day with a Dann elim. Feel decently okay about him being a wolf, and I think maybe the idea was for someone to like, really build up a case on Dann and flip and go throughout the game, hope wolves can get up to like 2-2 and then send it home for them.
Seems simplistic but this game is ? right now.

Is this shading Loki?

I have no idea what this is but I think it’s absolutely ridiculous. Scum is already down one point, in no world would they risk putting it to 2-0.

[Loki Dokie]

Fyi. I don’t tr don/Greeting/Vulture slot and was actually seriously considering voting there when I unvoted Vivax. So @RR, you could possibly be onto something with this.

[Loki Dokie]

the wagon is on a slot getting replaced, they are effectively dead votes

The slot's scummy actions are not undone, we should wait for a replacement though.

This was actually one of the reasons I wrongly tr Kitty because I found the replace out slightly suspicious and then Greeting weirdly reps out, now this odd post from Vulture.

This makes me even more convinced than ever on Dann!scum now.

[Loki Dokie]

huh? i don't think thats a TMI slip at all

maybe bc i had almost exactly the same reasoning/reaction. i was finding it funny as well bc loki's reaction seemed so unbelievable to me, and it felt like he was flailing under the slightest amount of pressure. it wouldn't have been funny if he was town, id feel bad for causing that kind of reaction. it's only a funny situation if he's scum. it's the same perspective

and then i took a look at some past games and figured out who he was and then it immediately made sense and was no longer funny

I don’t understand this at all. Why would it be funny unless he thought I was town and trolling me?

Chkfkip did that to me in a game, He knew I would get upset so he did it intentionally and it was pretty mean considering he flipped vig and he only made it clear post-game that he never sr me but enjoyed getting me riled up.

[Loki Dokie]

I don’t see that at all. This is exactly how I respond to nonsensical shitpushes on me. And I’ll say it again: why did Dann have no reaction whatsoever to you unvoting based pff of knowing who I was?

if Dann had voted me first and unvoted me because he realized who I was, would you have absolutely no reaction to that whatsoever?

Like wouldn’t you ask a question like, is that nia or town indicative for them? because I sure as hell would want to know why the person I just sheeped unvoted. I wouldn’t just make some ridiculous comment like that.

@fire


@Bell, Idk but wouldn’t scum be most likely to start out with their strongest scum player not the weakest? I also question whether Roden who’s not a buddy jumps on me like that. If he’s scum, does it really make that much sense that he’d jump on me like that if Dann is town? I guess that all depends on whether or not you sr Roden or not but I think they have high buddy equity, especially based off of that game I linked.

[Loki Dokie]

@Vivax, do you have any new thoughts about Dann v Kuti?

I’ve decided to reset because the possibility of scum!Dann actually getting away with and being rewarded for that horrible vote on me is just infuriating to me and that could possibly be affecting my read of him v Kuti.

Objectively Dann was making a lot of pushes on different players and not a lot of townreads, which is more what I would tend to expect from town!Dann. Basically, the way he made pushes in Forrest Fire is closer to what we’ve seen from Ari so far.

I probably should also not speculate on Roden’s alignment. I just feel that a lot of Dann’s takes and not just on me, did seem truly over the top. After all, it was rvs and I failed to respond to a post because I was tired and wasn’t up to reading it. I just don’t know if it’s typical for town!Dann to act so alarmist when the game has pretty much barely even started.

However, Bell does make some very valid points, so idk. \_0_/

Anyway, while I was unsure on d1, I think it’s pretty damned obvious now that Bell is very likely town here.

[Loki Dokie]

Ugh.

It doesn't really make sense to start with your strongest player in this position though, because you're already down a voice to help you sort through things, and you're like...

When you make your strongest player the one in the hot seat they lose the ability to vouch for themselves in a large capacity, because everything's under scrutiny. A weaker team might struggle to help push them through as the vote without making it obvious they're paired after the flip.

:V It's a temporary benefit for the present.

That was my initial take as well but scum is already down a point and town just needs two more to win and Kuti os clearly not a strong player. So it can be argued in reverse, if Kuti is scum here, would scum start off with arguably their weakest player?

Now here’s the thing, it’s extremely clear that Roden knows who I was and that is not - on MS anyway - easily pushable town and Dann knows I’m extremely difficult if almost impossible to miselim, so I find that chacterization of me to be somewhat disingenuous. I can count on one hand literally the number of times I’ve been miselimed on this site and it’s less than 5 and I’ve been playing on this site since 2018.

[Loki Dokie]

Actually it’s exactly 5, if you want to count a game I played anonymously but had replaced out of att the miselim took place but out of god even knows how many games I’ve played on this site, I would hardly refer to that as “easily pushable town”.

[Loki Dokie]

Actually it’s exactly 5, if you want to count a game I played anonymously but had replaced out of att the miselim took place but out of god even knows how many games I’ve played on this site, I would hardly refer to that as “easily pushable town”.

I guess that depends on your perception. When you claim to be the king of liars like your name suggests, there‘s not really any reason not to want to elim you no matter the read.

I think that it‘s a deserved title. I like good pranks and have experience with living within some.

Regarding kuti Dannflor I believe that the argument Kuti would not vote me when town stands from what I was able to assess so far in some games. Sorry if I don‘t want to link.

Wrt to the first part, you seriously have to be trolling with this. There’s no way that can be a real thought.

Well you don’t have to link but why couldn’t town!Kuti have voted you here? It seems you have been often going out of yoir way to be extremely difficult to reaad?

[Loki Dokie]

My biggest issue now is the thing with Vulture.

At day start already coming in LAMISTY, then silence for a while, and once momentum seems to be shifting toward Dannflor, shows up and goes "Yes, you're right, it's Dannflor, we should speed through the day and also the people doing the actual work to case Dannflor are Mafia plants doing so for towncred!"

And sure, they backpedaled after being called on it, but that really doesn't help things for me.

Totally, did an entire 180 in fact, which I don’t understand at all.

[Loki Dokie]

My biggest issue now is the thing with Vulture.

At day start already coming in LAMISTY, then silence for a while, and once momentum seems to be shifting toward Dannflor, shows up and goes "Yes, you're right, it's Dannflor, we should speed through the day and also the people doing the actual work to case Dannflor are Mafia plants doing so for towncred!"

And sure, they backpedaled after being called on it, but that really doesn't help things for me.

That slot is likely 'machine', yes

But I definitely like this post.

[Loki Dokie]

Very interesting Ari. My strongest reason for voting Dann is that I think Vulture is > likely scum who first tried to presumably push us to vote Dann by shading anyone casing him, then when that fails spectacularly, does a complete 180 on that. Also Kitty shaded both of them.

VOTE: Dannflor

[Loki Dokie]

Wolves down bad.

Not to form a wolfy little narrative but I kind of want to bumrush through this day with a Dann elim. Feel decently okay about him being a wolf, and I think maybe the idea was for someone to like, really build up a case on Dann and flip and go throughout the game, hope wolves can get up to like 2-2 and then send it home for them.
Seems simplistic but this game is ? right now.

Oh, no shade to anyone in particular. Was just worldbuilding a potential for why Dann, if a wolf, was put up as an option.

It makes someone look good to be able to catch the deepwolf out, just like that. So, if he is wolf, discussion is good and all but denying someone the chance to like... nurture a ""good solve"" or credit as a wolf would be good.

Then again, I also think that this setup is like, super WIFOM-y and poweryeeting Dann prooooobably isn't good either. Even if I want to, due diligence, etc. I wanna feel like the strategist here.

Ugh.

It doesn't really make sense to start with your strongest player in this position though, because you're already down a voice to help you sort through things, and you're like...

When you make your strongest player the one in the hot seat they lose the ability to vouch for themselves in a large capacity, because everything's under scrutiny. A weaker team might struggle to help push them through as the vote without making it obvious they're paired after the flip.

:V It's a temporary benefit for the present.

@Vulture I would really love to understand the thought process here.

[Loki Dokie]

Actually it’s exactly 5, if you want to count a game I played anonymously but had replaced out of att the miselim took place but out of god even knows how many games I’ve played on this site, I would hardly refer to that as “easily pushable town”.

I guess that depends on your perception. When you claim to be the king of liars like your name suggests, there‘s not really any reason not to want to elim you no matter the read.

I think that it‘s a deserved title. I like good pranks and have experience with living within some.

Regarding kuti Dannflor I believe that the argument Kuti would not vote me when town stands from what I was able to assess so far in some games. Sorry if I don‘t want to link.

Wrt to the first part, you seriously have to be trolling with this. There’s no way that can be a real thought.

Well you don’t have to link but why couldn’t town!Kuti have voted you here? It seems you have been often going out of yoir way to be extremely difficult to reaad?

The content of my posts is sometimes not digestible which can lead to states of congestion

I think I don't believe Kuti was SRing me and instead made it up to be able to fit on the wagon at the time which was on me.
Maf does need to somehow work together to achieve the miselim. I believe Loki and RR could be town and furtive maf though. The 3 on KittyTacky in the VC are likely clean I think at the moment.

vote count 1.09

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

KittyTacky [3]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion

Vivax [3]:

Loki Dokie, Radical Rat, furtiveglance

furtiveglance [2]:

Roden, Greeting

Greeting [1]:

KittyTacky

Radical Rat [1]:

Vivax

kutiplz [1]:

fireisredsir

not voting [2]:

kutiplz, Dannflor

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

Town ish vibes:

GuiltyLion: my first tr of the game, very much like they were in our previous games, just overall a gut and soul read
Loki: feeling good about this slot, their solving is logical (like how they are doing it in the thread), I like the effort to look into Vivax old game. In p#602
Greetign: weakest of the three, I feel like her emotions have been genuine. Dunno how to feel about the buddying
Kitty: weakest of them all, a town lean, their tone is genuine and maybe im weak to it.

Scummy vibes:
Dann: I feel like they kinda fell off since the beginning (I know I'm being a hypocrite)
Ari: I dunno how to feel about them trying to buddy everyone and her post have been agenda driven
Vivax: his tone and what not is not what I'm used to. He doesn't feel towny because he's missing his trademark tinfoil. I am sus of him
VOTE: vivax

I like this post but it makes me feel better about you than Dann though but I’ll unvote for now and think more on it.

UNVOTE:

[Loki Dokie]

I agree that Bell, GL and Ari are very likely alltown.

[Loki Dokie]

All I know is that my gut reaction to the Vivax wagon is disgust

VOTE: KittyTacky

My reaction to this is if Dann is scum, this could possibly be a pocket because eventhough I’m leaning to Vivax being possibly town now, I did hard sr him until pretty close to when I unvoted him, so unfortunately his post helps me a lot more with my read on him > Dann v Kuti. :/

[Loki Dokie]

like imagining worst cases here

say dann is maf. we vote for kuti. okay, oops. we're 1-1 now, but maf lost a strong player who was widely townread. like... okay? im not too sad about that trade

say kuti is maf. we vote out dann. um, oops. now we're 1-1, maf was able to sneak a player out who hadn't done much, and also get rid of a strong town player who was widely townread, and did not get at all punished for that

Do you understand that neither one comes back to the game or am I totally misconstruing the mech here? Aren’t both slots removed from the game?

[Loki Dokie]

from day 2 and on, there is no votes to eliminate; instead, each day there is a turing test.

the two players selected by the mafia are announced and removed from the game, but not flipped

. the votes are locked between the two selected players, and the living players must vote for the person in the pair they believe to be mafia.
~ if a mafia member is voted out, town scores 1 point.
~ if a townie is voted out, mafia scores 1 point.

@fire

[Loki Dokie]

yes im aware of how the game works

but like, maf losing maf dann is a big loss to the maf team, imo. town losing town dann is a big loss to the town team, imo

whichever loss it is, it already happened. but its a bigger loss overall for town if we lose the point on top of losing dann. and it's not really that big of a loss overall for town if we lose the point but maf lose dann

i guess it's mitigating losses. maybe thats not a very convincing argument idk but i think it's valuable

In terms of the vote, we guess wrong - either way - we lose the point. It isn’t worse one way or the other - which way we guess wrong, only if we guess wrong, so your argument wrt that part of it, really doesn’t make much sense.

[Loki Dokie]

I don't really scum read Kuti

VOTE: Bell

Bell I feel like I know nothing about what you think about anyone

All I know is that my gut reaction to the Vivax wagon is disgust

VOTE: KittyTacky

Dann being a very late vote on Kitty isn’t clearing especially since he also said he thought he was being bussed.

What do people make of this post?

[Loki Dokie]

they seem to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek

but the random town reads from Aristeia make me uneasy, especially in this setup

True @Vivax, he did say that and so did Kuti, so don’t understand this is helpful?

[Loki Dokie]

If KittyTacky is scum here then I would suspect they are being actively sacrificed by scum.

Yes, here he pretty much is referring to kitty wagon as a bus but yet calls Vivax wagon, not wrong but “disgusting”. If he thinks Kitty’s being bussed than why is Vivax wagon “disgusting”?

My issue is again, similar to the “weird/funnier” juxtaposition on my slot is two statements that don’t make a whole lot of sense.

Saying Vivax wagon is wrong is fine but “disgusting” clearly implies that it is being scum driven, right? So which one is it?

[Loki Dokie]

I honestly don’t know anymore but why did Dann express no curiosity whatsoever in why fire unvoted me?

[Loki Dokie]

I don’t see that at all. This is exactly how I respond to nonsensical shitpushes on me. And I’ll say it again: why did Dann have no reaction whatsoever to you unvoting based pff of knowing who I was?

if Dann had voted me first and unvoted me because he realized who I was, would you have absolutely no reaction to that whatsoever?

Like wouldn’t you ask a question like, is that nia or town indicative for them? because I sure as hell would want to know why the person I just sheeped unvoted. I wouldn’t just make some ridiculous comment like that.

@fire

@Bell, Idk but wouldn’t scum be most likely to start out with their strongest scum player not the weakest? I also question whether Roden who’s not a buddy jumps on me like that. If he’s scum, does it really make that much sense that he’d jump on me like that if Dann is town? I guess that all depends on whether or not you sr Roden or not but I think they have high buddy equity, especially based off of that game I linked.

@fire, did you ever answer this because this is a major sticking point for me.

[Loki Dokie]

He did correctly alt-guess me in a previous game and no one including me did anything to point him in that direction, so I could argue that perhaps he just didn’t care, which I find odd if he’s actually town here.

And I’m asking you this because if you can explain it in a way to me that makes sense for town!Dann. yes, it would totally change my mind.

I’m obviously still on the fence here but Dann has fooled me before as scum and again, my point being: he jumped on me for essentially ignoring/failing to comment on your post, yet he has 0 interest in why you unvoted me. It’s inconsistent.

[Loki Dokie]

I’m extremely certain that had he any idea who I actually was att, then that would absolutely be true -

in this particular setup

(he would also obviously never sr me for that if town as well) - but he obviously didn’t. He in fact, tries to make a very similar meta argument with Roden who unlike Dann, did very clearly know who I was, so saying he would have been less likely to have done that isn’t clearing because he obviously didn’t know it was me. That could be because this is a male alt and perhaps it wouldn’t have occurred to him?

Point is, if he didn’t know my main, he wasn’t more likely to pocket me. I don’t want to get this wrong and maybe he is town who played somewhat scummy and Kuti is scum who was playing somewhat townie but I really don’t understand your confidence on Dann!town. I can see Vivax’s argument, though even he doesn’t seem to be anywhere as confident on that read.

So maybe tell me your reasoning for Kuti being scum then? I’ll take anything to help get some clarity here.

[Loki Dokie]

@Ari, you’re definitely wrong on Bell. There’s just no way Bell is scum here. You’re argument makes more sense if scum!Dann was trying to miselim town!Bell.

I know Bell!scum meta and this 100% ain’t it. Read Bell in Among Us where he’s as wooden af and tell me that these posts are in anyway similar.

[Loki Dokie]

Bell's inactivity is a p bad look and points to him being probably just scum.

I think Dann decided to try to push Bell d1 to salvage the KT situation but when he couldn't get traction he basically gave up and bussed KT.

Dann probably figures if he flips here that gives Bell enough towncred tommorrow after he flips to somehow escape off distancing later down the line.

If Bell and Kitty are both scum, why would Dann push Bell over Kitty? I mean, Bell is like the most obvious scum ever. No way does scum!Kitty die over scum!Bell. I promise you, Bell begs to die in his scum pt because he absolutely hates being scum. I would know, I was buddies with him in Pooky v FL. His arguments here are nuanced. He just can’t fake doing that as scum.

[Loki Dokie]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34613

Town!Bell

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34613

Scum!Bell

Okay, maybe it’s not that obvious as I thought but your argument that Dann wants cred for killing Bell over Kitty, like just why? If both are buddie, why would Dann even care which one he busses?

[Loki Dokie]

I also want to noted that fire was also in KATANE and Bell wrongly sr him. Like I don’t think this decision is at all obvious so I wouldn’t assume that having a wrong take on whichever one - by itself - necessarily means anything.

I do agreee that fire needs to look a lot deeper because nothing he’s tr Dann for here, he couldn’t also do as scum. I don’t see this vote in anyway as a slam dunk.

I’m also not convinced that fire is necessarily scum if Dann is but his argument that wrongly voting Dann is somehow worse > wrongly voting Kuti makes absolutely no sense regardless.

I also strongly tr furtive but fire probably doesn’t look too great on a Dann red flip. But if Dann was trying to bus Bell. I don’t see why that wouldn’t have happened.

[Loki Dokie]

Apologies.

VOTE: Kutplz

Ultimately I’m incredibly conflicted on Dann, and I don’t want to embarrass myself by misreading him. Made town posts. Made scum posts. I don’t eee much like an agenda, even though his pushes felt agendey he *sort of* kept his way of treating people the same. It’s not great but he seems to have used his yardstick about the same for everyone based on how they played. It’s terrible because it feels less like a read than watching someone play off a policy. But at least he had a policy. Inconsistency isn’t a scum tell, nor is consistency.
I’m not satisfied, but life happens.

It was proven to be so with Kitty. And I disagree. Because it speaks to mindset but I agree it’s also context dependent.

But you have Dann both saying that Vivax wagon is “disgusting” as opposed to just wrong and that scum “sacrificed” Kitty. Well which is it? Because “disgusting” heavily implies scum driven, does it not? And if Vivax wagon was scum driven, than how could Kitty have been “sacrificed” by scum?

This type of inconsistency doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. @Furtive, I think Vivax is probably a Dann pocket if he’s scum here. Scum generally wouldn’t characterize a wagon on their buddy that way. If Dann is scum, that reads tmi to me.

@Bell, if you’re so “incredibly conflicted” then why are you voting Kuti?

Idk what to think rn. This isn’t obvtown!Bell or I would have townlocked you d1 but I still don’t understand why according to Ari, Dann tries to bus you > Kitty?

[Loki Dokie]

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I agree zomg, with RR/Vivax for the third.

RadicalRat? How so?

Feels like they're deliberately positioning themselves to align with certain players rather than natural thought process and see if people agree.

How are RR and Vivax ever buddies when RR tried really hard to ram his wagon through? That’s well beyond distancing.

[Loki Dokie]

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I agree zomg, with RR/Vivax for the third.

RadicalRat? How so?

Feels like they're deliberately positioning themselves to align with certain players rather than natural thought process and see if people agree.

How are RR and Vivax ever buddies when RR tried really hard to ram his wagon through? That’s well beyond distancing.

I didn't say buddies, I said one or the other.

Right, sorry I misread.

[Loki Dokie]

sorry for the prod y'all, I prob should have just called V/LA for the whole weekend-trip-to-visit-your-family thing

I got back home last night and am back in my regular Seattle routine now, but that also unfortunately means I'm working today

I'll try to catch up on my lunch break, and def play some tonight

wrt to fire's reply to me about the "funnier" perspective/TMI idea - I guess I can see that if town!Dann doesn't know who Loki is and thinks it's just authentically newb-scum flailing, it might be funny in that world. my gut instinct was it's more likely to seem funny if you

know

Loki is town (rather than scum), but don't have the energy to dive deep in that idea and it might be more NAI overall than I had previously thought cause I do see fire's point

I could see that if Dann had made that post BEFORE fire unvoted but he did it after fire said he knew who I was and that it wasn’t scum indicative for me.

[Loki Dokie]

Wait Ari gave me a townread? Why does that scare you

yknow what I completely mixed you up with KittyTacky

This was the post I was referring to earlier when I said Dann mixed up Kitty and Kuti. So I found that interesting.

[Loki Dokie]

Dann I hope you read my old games

I probably won't, sorry

VOTE: fireisredsir

While naked voting is nia for Dann, this vote literally seems to come out of nowhere.

[Loki Dokie]

Oh nm, it was before fire unvoted me. I still think it makes more sense if Dann thought it was town but not wedded to that.

[Loki Dokie]

Oh nm, it was before fire unvoted me. I still think it makes more sense if Dann thought it was town but not wedded to that.

I posted that in some dead game. lololol

[Loki Dokie]

Vulture/RR/furtive + 1 of fire/loki, but won't get that far. Leaning fire generally because Loki puts himself more out there and fire keeps their head low, but it could be a bad reason.

Aristeia eligible for tinfoil scenarios but more unlikely right now

Posting this for legacy reasons. It's just wacko crap you can enjoy after a taco wrap

How am I even in your pool of suspects?

I really don’t think it’s furtive unless he’s totally switched up his scum meta since the last time I played with him.

[Loki Dokie]

Vulture/RR/furtive + 1 of fire/loki, but won't get that far. Leaning fire generally because Loki puts himself more out there and fire keeps their head low, but it could be a bad reason.

Aristeia eligible for tinfoil scenarios but more unlikely right now

Posting this for legacy reasons. It's just wacko crap you can enjoy after a taco wrap

I think you gave me one too many pardners here pardner

Must have forgotten about Kitty, I guess?

[Loki Dokie]

How many votes on Dann and Kuti rn?

[Loki Dokie]

vote count 2.04

with 10 votes in play, it takes 6 to make a decision. day 2 ends in (expired on 2022-08-18 01:15:00).

yeet

Dannflor [3]:

Radical Rat, furtiveglance, Vulture

kutiplz [2]:

Vivax, Bell

not voting [5]:

GuiltyLion, Aristeia, fireisredsir, Roden, Loki Dokie

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

Why do I get the feeling from this that Dann will flip red and one scum is voting him for towncred? I just don’t believe RR and Vulture are both town here.

[Loki Dokie]

Am I allowed to be 'confused', or is that *sus*?

I think she was referring to the points. We already have 1 point from the Kitty yeet and only need 2 more. So if she’s hypothetically right on both Dann and Bell and both get voted, than the game would in fact be over in that case.

We only need to correctly solve 3/5 scums to win this.

[Loki Dokie]

Has this setup ever been run before? Anyone know? Better yet, if the answer is “yes”, a link to that would be extremely helpful. Glad we still have over a day left to sort this out. I still have no idea what I’m going to do.

[Loki Dokie]

Here’s my issue with all of this, Dann has a pretty decent scumgame and I’ve been fooled by him before. so I don’t agree he was obvtown here anymore than I think Kuti reads like obscum and as Roden has stated, Kuti was an odd choice.

In a typical game of mafia, I very much doubt, I would be voting either of them on d2. Neither slot looks partnery scummy to me.

But that’s the counter wifom argument, what if Kuti is the most townread of the scumteam?

Like seriously, in a normal game, is there anyone who was particularly interested in yeeting either of them d2? I think not.

But here’s the thing, let’s say one or more of Vulture, RR, Roden, maybe Bell, Vivax? are the team, if Dann is town, probably against any of those slots, he 100% never gets voted right? Especially against Vulture, RR, Roden, so I think that GL, Ari and furtive and probably fire are all town here.

So who does Dann win against over anyone of those? Maybe Bell and Vivax but they’re just not confident reads and more likely to be town for me, so I think Vulture, RR, Roden? in a Dann!town world would make the most sense as the rest of the team unless I’m wrong on either Bell or Vivax.

So which of those has the best chance against hypothetical town!Dann?

Yes I know, some people think we shouldn’t be discussing other reads but I don’t in a vacuum find either Dann or Kuti particularily scummy, so I would argue that both would fare better than against those three but then you have Kitty shading both Dann and Vulture slot, so still going back and forth on this.

[Loki Dokie]

Damn stupid autocorrect! I meant to type “particularly” not “partnery”.

[Loki Dokie]

Like seriously, in a normal game, is there anyone who was particularly interested in yeeting either of them d2? I think not.

i mean kuti prob would have been one of 2 people that id be most likely to vote starting d2 of a normal game here

Really? I didn’t find him to be particularly scummy.

However, I’m thinking who am I most suss on vs Dann and I think Kuti if scum may not necessarily be the weakest member of the team.

So if my current PoE is Vulture/RR/Roden, then I think if any of them are town, they all would lose to a scum!Dann, so Kuti might actually be the best option according to that if these reads are in fact correct.

So I think I just wifommed myself into probably voting Kuti.

Because he actually would make sense in that scenario, wouldn’t it?

[Loki Dokie]

It seems like most of us have made our minds up one way or another.

But what I said makes sense, doesn’t it?

The whole wifom case on Dann is that Kuti if scum is likely the weakest member of the scumteam and I’m arguing that if my reads are correct, that isn’t necessarily the case.

Do you think Dann loses against any of Vulture/RR/Roden because I really don’t but scum!Dann could actually lose to town!Kuti because he was a total null read for me.

I can tell you that I would not be voting Dann against any of those three, so my theory is Kuti if scum, was not in fact scum’s weakest member but actually their strongest.

The wifom argument literally hinges on Kuti if scum being the weakest slot and I don’t think that’s the case. I wouldn’t have likely been interested in yeeting either of them d2 and certainly none of those three > Dann in any d2 test.

[Loki Dokie]

Dann mafia btw, I don't think the current gamestate or votes points to kuti mafia.

Explain? Who is your PoE and why is my argument not good?

[Loki Dokie]

Eta to 1253:

I mean I very much doubt I would be voting to yeet Dann > any of Vulture/RR/Roden in any d2 test but would probably be wifomming that even harder if possible.

[Loki Dokie]

Profuse apologies to Kuti for accidentally misgendering THEM.

[Loki Dokie]

Dann mafia btw, I don't think the current gamestate or votes points to kuti mafia.

Explain? Who is your PoE and why is my argument not good?

What's your argument? That Dannflor beats some other players? How can you even predict that, I think there would be some heated debates either way.

My POE is basically you/GL/Ari as town with primary suspicion on Bell and RR I guess.

I agree with your town core. I also think you’re town and probably fire as well. And regardless of Dann’s alignment, Vivax looks like town from his “disgusting” comment. So my argument is, assuming Kuti is scum here, who amongst your srs would be the most likely to beat town!Dann?

[Loki Dokie]

In bad shape today.
My shoulder is killing me, if I could pin something responsible, I'd wish it'd go up in flames.

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

I don't really like this

kutiplz have you gotten any value out of reading cold meta in the past?

Worth pointing out that kuti's post directed a question at FG specifically, and Dann didn't like the post

I don’t really see why furtive being named specifically has much to do with it?

[Loki Dokie]

Dann mafia btw, I don't think the current gamestate or votes points to kuti mafia.

Explain? Who is your PoE and why is my argument not good?

What's your argument? That Dannflor beats some other players? How can you even predict that, I think there would be some heated debates either way.

My POE is basically you/GL/Ari as town with primary suspicion on Bell and RR I guess.

I agree with your town core. I also think you’re town and probably fire as well. And regardless of Dann’s alignment, Vivax looks like town from his “disgusting” comment. So my argument is, assuming Kuti is scum here, who amongst your srs would be the most likely to beat town!Dann?

Maybe someone like Vivax because they have that weird associative. What are you getting at?

I think it’s pretty clear isn’t it? I don’t think any of Vulture, RR, Roden likely be Dann in a d2 test - obviously assuming I have the correct PoE here and Dann is town of course.

My argument is that if my PoE is correct, then it likely points to Dann!town/Kuti!scum because I don’t think any of those 3 beat Dann here.

Do you disagree?

[Loki Dokie]

The problem that I see Ari, is your theory for Dann!scum is hinging on Bell!scum but what if Bell is town here, how does that impact your theory?

[Loki Dokie]

hmm hmm hmm

sleeping on it and seeing fire's latest posts has lowered my confidence in voting Dann

however I still have a hangup in that let's say kuti is maf and Dann is town and scum wanted us to WIFOM ourselves into voting Dann

who is actually scum pushing us towards that, if anyone? it kinda feels like Bell/Rat are just sitting back and not really advocating for anything, so I could see them as kuti partners in a town!Dann world. Maybe one Vulture/Roden being the remaining scum? but Roden's D2 is a fairly audacious move if kuti is actually maf, especially if the plan is to actually sacrifice kuti and go down 2-0. It's a bit odd that Roden has decreased in presence as the day has gone on, kinda maybe feels like S-S with kuti where Roden wants to look good off their flip while not actually doing a

ton

to make it really happen

p-edit haven't read that post yet

Roden being inactive is nia. He was very inactive in Terminator and PYP - both town.

[Loki Dokie]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34613

Town!Bell

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34613

Scum!Bell

Okay, maybe it’s not that obvious as I thought but your argument that Dann wants cred for killing Bell over Kitty, like just why? If both are buddie, why would Dann even care which one he busses?

Reposting this, because activity in itself isn’t necessarily ai for Bell. I also don’t think Bell is clear by either vote and he can obviously - as Amongst Us shows - hyperpost as either alignment. I also think as any Bell scumgame goes on, the likely worse Bell would look and the exact opposite as town and Bell is voting Kuti right, so he gets no towncred in a scum!Dann world regardless.

[Loki Dokie]

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I have bad news.

Bell's inactivity is a p bad look and points to him being probably just scum.

I think Dann decided to try to push Bell d1 to salvage the KT situation but when he couldn't get traction he basically gave up and bussed KT.

Dann probably figures if he flips here that gives Bell enough towncred tommorrow after he flips to somehow escape off distancing later down the line.

I'm busy.

fire being one of the most vocal dann supporters with logic thats surface level correct is also kind of strange to me

like the principles he's using are correct but they're correct in a way that would be correct even if Dann flips scum here;

which feels like thats his primary consideration rather than who is town/scum within the Dann/Kuti dichotomy


everything is about loss, strategy, and like how a scum team looks at resources rather than

who is actually scum

Rather than trying to win by voting out who is scum, its all about mitigating a possible loss that creates a narrative further down the line that feels somewhat like putting the cart before the horse.

Sure.

@GL, @Ari, I think you’re both wrong on Bell but Ari’s Kuti!town argument does give me some pause. But here’s the thing @Ari, the entire scumteam doesn’t really need to go though “the gauntlet” because 3 points to either side wins the game.

[Loki Dokie]

however I still have a hangup in that let's say kuti is maf and Dann is town and scum wanted us to WIFOM ourselves into voting Dann

who is actually scum pushing us towards that, if anyone? it kinda feels like Bell/Rat are just sitting back and not really advocating for anything, so I could see them as kuti partners in a town!Dann world. Maybe one Vulture/Roden being the remaining scum? but Roden's D2 is a fairly audacious move if kuti is actually maf, especially if the plan is to actually sacrifice kuti and go down 2-0. It's a bit odd that Roden has decreased in presence as the day has gone on, kinda maybe feels like S-S with kuti where Roden wants to look good off their flip while not actually doing a ton to make it really happen

i will add tho that if GL and Ari and Loki are all town pushing for a vote on town Dann then scum literally can just sit back and watch

people will join you because you are the consensus townreads. you will feel more validated in your push bc the people you think are scum are on the other side. everyone will feel happier with a dann vote. it's a feedback loop. then Dann flips town and everyone is like oh no, there's no way all 3 maf just sat on kuti, right? and then people start paranoiaing that there must be scum in the widely townead people and boom its a win

Have you been reading my recent posts?

[Loki Dokie]

am i being confbiased again

i have a tendency to get confbiased after i yeet a scum on d1

im actually kind of tempted to just do the opposite thing here

idk i do think bell is scum but i think that he could be willing to push scum kuti bc he knows that the people who think he is scum will see that and vote the other person purely to not be on the same wagon as him lol

But that’s obviously not true for me. If anything, I dislike two of the Dann votes because I think at least one of them could be scum here.

[Loki Dokie]

Have you been reading my recent posts?

yes, was there anything you wanted a response to?

Well, I’m not currently pushing Dann.

[Loki Dokie]

ik but the point was that for most of the day you were

I know but I’m not now, so it doesn’t really make a lot of sense for you to say I’m currently doing that.

[Loki Dokie]

Apologies.

VOTE: Kutplz

Ultimately I’m incredibly conflicted on Dann, and I don’t want to embarrass myself by misreading him. Made town posts. Made scum posts. I don’t eee much like an agenda, even though his pushes felt agendey he *sort of* kept his way of treating people the same. It’s not great but he seems to have used his yardstick about the same for everyone based on how they played. It’s terrible because it feels less like a read than watching someone play off a policy. But at least he had a policy. Inconsistency isn’t a scum tell, nor is consistency.
I’m not satisfied, but life happens.

I’m just not convinced that this is a post that scum!Bell would make - especially if he wanted towncred for supposedly voting scum!Dann.

[Loki Dokie]

He's not saying you're currently doing that.

He's saying you initially started out doing that so if all of the vocal town leaders are leaning one way, it's fine for the entire scum team to go the bus route because they won't actually influence the wagon direction.

Okay then, so how does any of this implicate Bell as bussing Dann, when he’s voting Kuti?

[Loki Dokie]

yes that is correct

in the scenario i was talking about, scum made the choice to sit back and watch much earlier, when you were pushing dann

The thing is that Bell voting Kuti had no impact on me decision because I don’t have confidence in Bell’s reads either way, so his vote really wouldn’t influence me.

The current votes that concern me are Vulture and RR because I don’t think both are town and both could be scum here. So if there’s any bussing going on, my money’s there. Or conversely, it could also be wifom to make us vote Kuti. Idk. \_0_/

@Ari, @furtive, sell me on Kuti!town. I think if I can get a confident tr on either one, that would be extremely helpful.

[Loki Dokie]

He's not saying you're currently doing that.

He's saying you initially started out doing that so if all of the vocal town leaders are leaning one way, it's fine for the entire scum team to go the bus route because they won't actually influence the wagon direction.

Okay then, so how does any of this implicate Bell as bussing Dann, when he’s voting Kuti?

He is saying that Kuti is scum and Dann is town.

Then if Bell is scum then, he can only be bussing Kuti, so he doesn’t look great with a Dann scumflip, unless I’m missing something?

[Loki Dokie]

Spoiler:

idk what the optimal way to play it is but i just know that town!you would be thinking about it

wouldn't scum!Ari be thinking about how town!Ari would play and how town!Ari would think about it? I don't think this is a town indicative thing

shhhh im letting her pocket me

i think its slightly town indicative. i don't think that ari's main priority as scum is to match how she'd play as town, and i don't think most people would really would have that reaction or that she would expect them to. so if it was performative it was a very directed performance

Why are you trying to pocket her

I'm new to this site and like to be aware of people's playstyles. Shoot me for that.

Previous game GL provided old games. I read them. Figured out he was towny and sheeped his reads which lead to me helping town win and going 2/2 on vig shots on scum

So yes I do need this for my playstyle

do you have any impressions of any players yet? if not anything pinging you scummy has anything struck you as towny? or not really anything at all yet

Fire feels very natural and fluid so far, nothing towny yet since it's been NAI content.

Waiting for GL to do something AI so I can sheep if he's towny again.

Ari, I have only played turbos and one mash with, hasn't really given anything AI related. Her shit posting doesn't feel awkward.

I honestly can't read people that do gimmicks so I'm already annoyed at that slot.

I do like the pressure you are applying to me.

That's all I got so far.

meh, okay. I'm not going to lie and say I have any more stronger impressions than you do.

I apologize if I came off as somewhat abrasive but you're a newer player (I think?) and I was hoping you might panic a little bit if I laid it on somewhat thick. and I think it's ever so mildly towny that you didn't just start making up reads on people because I put some pressure on you

I think I'm still most scared of Aristeia for handing out free town reads to Kutiplz and GL

I only played three games on ms but one was a hydra so I don't count that one. This is my second solo game on here. It's just a routine I do when I'm trying to get used to players so I apologize that it seems like I'm asking for games as busy work when I really am not.

Wait Ari gave me a townread? Why does that scare you

GL I think I'm ready to sheep you again part2

Oh and I asked Kuti cause I thought they'd like to be asked about their opinion and the read on Greeting could prove useful down the line.

My read so far in greeting/west is like I kinda don't like their attempt at buddying me. We had only played two games and idk if that makes them an expert on my meta since I play low activity in ms.


Besides the buddying, from what I have read so far, I have them as town lean ish vibes

Okay@Ari, I do think that this is pretty townie, so leaning to vote out Dann. I know everything being equal, I would really really hate it more than anything to be fooled by Dann here.

[Loki Dokie]

Dannflor [5]: Radical Rat, furtiveglance, Vulture, Aristeia, GuiltyLion
kutiplz [3]: Vivax, Bell, fireisredsir

not voting [2]: Roden, Loki Dokie

I think this is right

I still think I’m right about Bell, so my vote won’t be based on that.

So, let me know if you want me to hammer Dann?

I’ll check back later.

[Loki Dokie]

So, let me know if you want me to hammer Dann?

wait until Datisi is about to go to bed

Which is according to eastern time?

[Loki Dokie]

There are some slots I trust my read on > anyone else’s save Pooky and that would be Bell. He is town here regardless of what Dann flips, so a bit worried about how much of that imho incorrect read is factoring into things.

[Loki Dokie]

Dannflor [5]: Radical Rat, furtiveglance, Vulture, Aristeia, GuiltyLion
kutiplz [3]: Vivax, Bell, fireisredsir, Roden

not voting [2]: Loki Dokie

I think this is right

This is the up to date VC.

And based off of my reads, the only player I don’t tr on Kuti is Roden and on Dann, RR and Vulture. At any rate, Dann is donezo irrespective of my vote, so I should probably hammer now.

[Loki Dokie]

VOTE: Dannflor

[Loki Dokie]

Dannflor [6]: Radical Rat, furtiveglance, Vulture, Aristeia, GuiltyLion, Loki Dokie (hammer)
kutiplz [4]: Vivax, Bell, fireisredsir, Roden

not voting [0]: nobody

I think this is right

This is the up to date VC.

And based off of my reads, the only player I don’t tr on Kuti is Roden and on Dann, RR and Vulture. At any rate, Dann is donezo irrespective of my vote, so I should probably hammer now.

[Loki Dokie]

Rip Dann. Couldn‘t save you from the rabid crowds, and now you lay dead amid a flock of crows

Sorry Dann, I did think wifom pointed to Kuti but Ari said he was town. \_0_/

[Loki Dokie]

Bell and furtiveglance are found unconscious. a gun with one bullet lies in between the two of them.

it is now day 3.

OMG, this is really bad. :/

I tr both of them.

I guess I must be wrong on Bell then?

I just don’t think furtive is ever mafia here.


But with so mach of the playerlist sussing Bell? Ugh

[Loki Dokie]

Rip Dann. Couldn‘t save you from the rabid crowds, and now you lay dead amid a flock of crows

Sorry Dann, I did think wifom pointed to Kuti but Ari said THEY were town. \_0_/

[Loki Dokie]

Once again, I profusely apologize to Kuti for misgendering them.

[Loki Dokie]

Dann is a very strong player irrespective of alignment. I doubt very much scum would kill him here unless he’s town.

We obviously shouldn’t rush this but Dann might have possibly been killed for his reads and scum is probably fine with sacrificing Kuti to get rid of him.

Not 100% wedded to this but I think if scum wanted to wifom us with this, they probably leave scum!Dann for later.

Killed for his reads....you're saying Bell smoked Dannflor.

Could this have been true?

Scumteam obviously hates me with this pairing.

[Loki Dokie]

I have to be wrong on Bell. Furtive sounds really town here. Mafia probably did this because they expected me to fight for Bell but not against furtive.

If I hadn’t been hard defending Bell, this probably wouldn’t have happened I think?

[Loki Dokie]

(but i am pretty sure i choose bell)

Yeah, in a different pairing, it would be different but I just don’t see how furtive is ever scum here. Bell wasn’t obvtown and he was kind of wooden.

Yeah, leaning to vote for Bell.

Furtive’s ISO bleeds uninformed town.

[Loki Dokie]

I agree, it has to be Bell here, and your defense of him is probably exactly why.

I didn't personally find anything particularly scummy about Bell, but I do think furtive was pretty Townie, and I believe someone said before that inactivity was scum indicative for Bell? And indeed he hasn't been super active.

Yeah but that obviously mean I’m wrong on someone, I guess probably you then, since Vulture wanted to rush Dann vote. Roden obvtown read Dann but voted him after GL put him to e-1, why? If you’re that super confident on Dann!town, why would you wait so long to vote?

So Kitty, Kuti, Vulture, Roden and Bell?

That’s my current solve.

[Loki Dokie]

i don't think ive ever said i townread GL

Why don’t you?

[Loki Dokie]

Rushing a partner through in a game where I would have to inevitably also be seen as town later would shortsighted and borderline throwing.

Can someone verbalize the reasons why furtive is town if it is being agreed upon. I look at both of the people’s isos and get equally limp feelings atp.

Umm hello, you rushed Dann who flipped town.

[Loki Dokie]

Rushing a partner through in a game where I would have to inevitably also be seen as town later would shortsighted and borderline throwing.

Can someone verbalize the reasons why furtive is town if it is being agreed upon. I look at both of the people’s isos and get equally limp feelings atp.

Umm hello, you rushed Dann who flipped town.

Yes, I suggested a plan in which we bumrush Dannflor through.

Where does that get me if I’m mafia?

A point.

[Loki Dokie]

I’m pretty much set on voting Bell. I just can’t see furtive being scum here.

[Loki Dokie]

Rushing a partner through in a game where I would have to inevitably also be seen as town later would shortsighted and borderline throwing.

Can someone verbalize the reasons why furtive is town if it is being agreed upon. I look at both of the people’s isos and get equally limp feelings atp.

Umm hello, you rushed Dann who flipped town.

Yes, I suggested a plan in which we bumrush Dannflor through.

Where does that get me if I’m mafia?

A point.

And how does my team win in the long run from this?

Furthermore, what rhetoric did I present that was compelling enough to make people follow through on killing Dann.

Why would town advocate rushing the vote?

[Loki Dokie]

Why is furtive town in your opinion.

His ISO

[Loki Dokie]

Why is furtive town in your opinion.

His ISO

If you’re going to be unhelpful I will too and let you draw your wrong assumptions all the way to a town loss.

You were voting Dann, you’re not exactly in any position to criticize my reads here.

[Loki Dokie]

I think furtive’s ISO looks pretty damned townie. You want me to pull up quotes?

[Loki Dokie]

Like literally being evasive to the question I have asked for what I can tell is no reason as town.

Saying “his ISO” is evasive in what universe exactly?

[Loki Dokie]

Like literally being evasive to the question I have asked for what I can tell is no reason as town.

Saying “his ISO” is evasive in what universe exactly?

What about his iso is towny. If it is that towny it shouldn’t take pulling teeth to provide examples.

Why don’t you provide examples of it being scummy then? Go.

[Loki Dokie]

Like literally being evasive to the question I have asked for what I can tell is no reason as town.

Saying “his ISO” is evasive in what universe exactly?

What about his iso is towny. If it is that towny it shouldn’t take pulling teeth to provide examples.

Why don’t you provide examples of it being scummy then? Go.

When did I call it scummy? I said limp.

Why are you unable to justify your townread.

Finding posts that look “limp” or whatever to you shouldn’t be like pulling teeth. See, I can play that game too.

[Loki Dokie]

I’m still half asleep, so I don’t feel like pulling up quotes rn but based on my reread, that was my analysis. If you disagree, feel free to show otherwise.

I’m not really interested in engaging with your shade.

[Loki Dokie]

You do realize that no one in this game is a mindreader right. Your analysis doesn’t mean a lot unless you present why and I’ve like mortally offended you by asking to see why. I don’t get it lol.

I said I’m tired and don’t feel like doing it NOW. You called him “limp”. so why can’t you find posts demonstrating that?

[Loki Dokie]

Here’s my issue with all of this, Dann has a pretty decent scumgame and I’ve been fooled by him before. so I don’t agree he was obvtown here anymore than I think Kuti reads like obscum and as Roden has stated, Kuti was an odd choice.

In a typical game of mafia, I very much doubt, I would be voting either of them on d2. Neither slot looks partnery scummy to me.

But that’s the counter wifom argument, what if Kuti is the most townread of the scumteam?

Like seriously, in a normal game, is there anyone who was particularly interested in yeeting either of them d2? I think not.

But here’s the thing, let’s say one or more of Vulture, RR, Roden, maybe Bell, Vivax? are the team, if Dann is town, probably against any of those slots, he 100% never gets voted right? Especially against Vulture, RR, Roden, so I think that GL, Ari and furtive and probably fire are all town here.

So who does Dann win against over anyone of those? Maybe Bell and Vivax but they’re just not confident reads and more likely to be town for me, so I think Vulture, RR, Roden? in a Dann!town world would make the most sense as the rest of the team unless I’m wrong on either Bell or Vivax.

So which of those has the best chance against hypothetical town!Dann?

Yes I know, some people think we shouldn’t be discussing other reads but I don’t in a vacuum find either Dann or Kuti particularily scummy, so I would argue that both would fare better than against those three but then you have Kitty shading both Dann and Vulture slot, so still going back and forth on this.

I actually was right about this. At any rate. we should take as much time as necessary and not rush this.

[Loki Dokie]

vote count 1.final

with 13 votes in play, it took 7 to make a decision. day 1 ended.

yeet

KittyTacky [7]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion,

Dannflor

, Vulture, Vivax, fireisredsir

[HAMMER]

Vivax [5]:

Radical Rat, furtiveglance,

kutiplz, KittyTacky

, Roden

not voting [1]:

Loki Dokie

mod notes

~ i was literally about to sleep, why do you do this to me

So this is really interesting. Since I don’t tr Roden, I think it’s extremely unlikely more than 3 scum on Vivax, so it likely means 2 scum were bussing like Dann said.

Which most likely would point to Bell/Vulture if my current reads are right. It’s extremely unlikely all of the scum were on Vivax and not one on Kitty.

I think it’s pretty damned clear that scum is pairing the towniest scumslots with lesser tr townies, so it makes me think from this, that it’s highly unlikely furtive’s scum here.

I think scum needed to get Dann out of the way, not just because he was strong town but for his reads like I said. Otherwise why aren’t any of the scummier slots being paired if they’re town? I think scum knows exactly what they’re doing here.

So maybe the salient question ought to be, who do you read as town on Vivax wagon? If we’re going to assume that the entire scumteam wasn’t on Vivax - extremely likely - furtive’s very likely spewed town by this.

[Loki Dokie]

At any rate, furtive is objectively the towniest slot on Vivax, so I feel extremely confident that I’m right.

[Loki Dokie]

vote count 1.final

with 13 votes in play, it took 7 to make a decision. day 1 ended.

yeet

KittyTacky [7]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion,

Dannflor

, Vulture, Vivax, fireisredsir

[HAMMER]

Vivax [5]:

Radical Rat, furtiveglance,

kutiplz, KittyTacky

, Roden

not voting [1]:

Loki Dokie

mod notes

~ i was literally about to sleep, why do you do this to me

So this is really interesting. Since I don’t tr Roden, I think it’s extremely unlikely more than 3 scum on Vivax, so it likely means 2 scum were bussing like Dann said.

Which most likely would point to Bell/Vulture if my current reads are right. It’s extremely unlikely all of the scum were on Vivax and not one on Kitty.

I think it’s pretty damned clear that scum is pairing the towniest scumslots with lesser tr townies, so it makes me think from this, that it’s highly unlikely furtive’s scum here.

I think scum needed to get Dann out of the way, not just because he was strong town but for his reads like I said. Otherwise why aren’t any of the scummier slots being paired if they’re town? I think scum knows exactly what they’re doing here.

So maybe the salient question ought to be, who do you read as town on Vivax wagon? If we’re going to assume that the entire scumteam wasn’t on Vivax - extremely likely - furtive’s very likely spewed town by this.

That depends on your beliefs, nobody expects scum to go all-in on a single wagon, but it's not impossible there since KT depended on it

Sure but in this kind of game, I find it highly unlikely that the entire scumteam piled on you. Think of it this way, let’s say hypothetically furtive does wind up flipping scum here, then we’d be left with RR and Roden on that wagon, so it would be absolutely horrible play for scum to do this. Far better to concede the point and hope that your wagon succeeds.

Also you had Ari pushing so extremely hard for that Kitty lim, scum needed to be on it. Remember Dann said that scum probably sacrificed Kitty and they whacked him first chance they got. Maybe they really needed him out of the way because his reads and assessment of the gamestate were bang on? Ari too but she was much more widely tr than Dann. This also makes Roden look particularly suss in my eyes because he would absolutely know that I’d have trouble getting over that vote from Dann. There’s really no one I’m particularly suss on that I think could know that. Bell might but idk but for sure Roden would.

[Loki Dokie]

Town ish vibes:

GuiltyLion: my first tr of the game, very much like they were in our previous games, just overall a gut and soul read
Loki: feeling good about this slot, their solving is logical (like how they are doing it in the thread), I like the effort to look into Vivax old game. In p#602
Greetign: weakest of the three, I feel like her emotions have been genuine. Dunno how to feel about the buddying
Kitty: weakest of them all, a town lean, their tone is genuine and maybe im weak to it.

Scummy vibes:
Dann: I feel like they kinda fell off since the beginning (I know I'm being a hypocrite)
Ari: I dunno how to feel about them trying to buddy everyone and her post have been agenda driven
Vivax: his tone and what not is not what I'm used to. He doesn't feel towny because he's missing his trademark tinfoil. I am sus of him
VOTE: vivax

I don't necessarily disagree, though the Dannflor elimination was objectively bad.
It would be fallacious for me to expect every town to repeat that mistake, however

Yeah, it’s the fact that none of the pairings were slots I’d be particularly interested in limming this early. so why wouldn’t scum throw in scummier town slots into the mix?

Other than Roden, I’m thinking one of Vulture/RR. Probably Vulture based off this post. One scum, Kitty shades Vulture/Greeting/Don slot and the other Kuti, trs them.

[Loki Dokie]

Vivax almost seems... too scummy to be scum

People who seem too scummy to be scum are almost always just scum who played badly.

I really wish I had caught this, pretty clearly anti-partnery.

[Loki Dokie]

the wagon is on a slot getting replaced, they are effectively dead votes

The slot's scummy actions are not undone, we should wait for a replacement though.

ok I am feeling good about a Dann TR currently. I am not sure if I should be in the business of sharing every townread this game but I do like working with Dann so I'm gonna throw that one out there

I still kinda gut scumread everything fire is posting, I don't like that they unvoted Loki and didn't vote anywhere else.

I also don't like Rat describing my case as "nitpicking" in 175 - calling out the logical slip up is arguably a reach, like I understand that particular point is not necessarily AI, but the overall argument I was making was that I felt fire's TR on Ari was premeditated, which is definitely a cause for concern. Also, I want to clarify my understanding of that post in general - RR, are you using "human"/"AI" as stand-ins for "town"/"mafia", or are you just making a joke about the flavor and Bell's comment as opposed to making a read on me?

I feel like I know who Loki is and I have a lot of trouble with his playstyle because he can not fathom or accept any suspicion or scrutiny on him in any circumstances, but so far I am fine with shelving him as town for now and judging him based off his read accuracy when we get some flips - further if fire is scum then I def think Loki's spewed town by their interaction

Other thing I found odd:

the wagon is on a slot getting replaced, they are effectively dead votes

The slot's scummy actions are not undone, we should wait for a replacement though.

a) What are DonEmpire's scummy actions, in your own words?
b) Why are you not voting the slot if this is how you feel? Better yet, why are you not voting anybody?

I'm actually nullreading the slot, I just explained why they aren't being unvoted.

I don't understand the Roden wagon. He's got three posts, and none of them strike me as particularly scummy.

Yeah same. Roden is very null to me.

This doesn’t look great for Vulture, Kitty going from a sr to a null read and Roden is yet another null read. I think I’m probably right on this solve, especially liking RR’s posting today.

[Loki Dokie]

I’ve been thinking some more about the Bell - Kuti/Roden - Kuti votes and their timing.

Bell votes early but expresses plenty of doubt on Dann - doesn’t really make that sense if you’re undecided right? And Roden - who had a confident tr on Dann votes after GL puts him to e-1.

So Bell does look kind of townie doing that but logically it makes no sense. It reads to me like scum who wants to look good by have their correct vote in early but doesn’t exactly encourage you to confidently sheep that vote due to the extremely indecisive way he expressed it.

Contrast those two votes with Vivax and fire who both voted early enough + had confident reads on Dann and also strongly advocated for him.

Both Bell and Roden wanted towncred but didn’t want you to sheep those reads. Roden waited so long because had he voted early, all town probably would have piled on Kuti.

[Loki Dokie]

I'm just struggling to figure out how to participate without inducing WIFOM by just existing

I feel like I'm in a weird spot where anything I say is going to get interpreted as being way more layered than it actually is. Some of the votes on Dann were made because of a pre-flipped read on me and looking too deeply into my town read on him. Idk, I don't want to ruin the game by centralizing who to vote for over things that are in my ISO.

So your argument is that you waited to vote Kuti once GL had already put him to e-1 not to wifom scum? Your vote did absolutely nothing to help Dann atp because had I voted Kuti, it would have been a tie and the earlier tie always wins, so I think for that to have really made any sense, you wouldn’t have waited until it was extremely likely too late to save him.

[Loki Dokie]

You do realize that no one in this game is a mindreader right. Your analysis doesn’t mean a lot unless you present why and I’ve like mortally offended you by asking to see why. I don’t get it lol.

Personality things tho I guess.

I can assure you Vulture, I have absolutely nothing personally against you, I just don’t tr you.

[Loki Dokie]

Apologies.

VOTE: Kutplz

Ultimately I’m incredibly conflicted on Dann, and I don’t want to embarrass myself by misreading him. Made town posts. Made scum posts. I don’t eee much like an agenda, even though his pushes felt agendey he *sort of* kept his way of treating people the same. It’s not great but he seems to have used his yardstick about the same for everyone based on how they played. It’s terrible because it feels less like a read than watching someone play off a policy. But at least he had a policy. Inconsistency isn’t a scum tell, nor is consistency.
I’m not satisfied, but life happens.

Does this make a lot of sense as an early vote? Why would town!Bell make this vote so early albeit with all of these reservations?

[Loki Dokie]

I'm just struggling to figure out how to participate without inducing WIFOM by just existing

I feel like I'm in a weird spot where anything I say is going to get interpreted as being way more layered than it actually is. Some of the votes on Dann were made because of a pre-flipped read on me and looking too deeply into my town read on him. Idk, I don't want to ruin the game by centralizing who to vote for over things that are in my ISO.

So your argument is that you waited to vote Kuti once GL had already put THEM to e-1 not to wifom scum? Your vote did absolutely nothing to help Dann atp because had I voted Kuti, it would have been a tie and the earlier tie always wins, so I think for that to have really made any sense, you wouldn’t have waited until it was extremely likely too late to save him.

THEM, THEM, THEM

[Loki Dokie]

Fuck me, why do I keep doing this? I apologize to you Kuti once again. I’m so extremely sorry.

[Loki Dokie]

vote count 2.final

with 10 votes in play, it took 6 to make a decision. day 2 ended.

yeet

Dannflor [6]:

Radical Rat, furtiveglance, Vulture, Aristeia, GuiltyLion, Loki Dokie

[HAMMER]

kutiplz [4]:

Vivax, Bell, fireisredsir, Roden

not voting [0]:

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

[Loki Dokie]

VOTE: Bell

[Loki Dokie]

I'm just struggling to figure out how to participate without inducing WIFOM by just existing

I feel like I'm in a weird spot where anything I say is going to get interpreted as being way more layered than it actually is. Some of the votes on Dann were made because of a pre-flipped read on me and looking too deeply into my town read on him. Idk, I don't want to ruin the game by centralizing who to vote for over things that are in my ISO.

So your argument is that you waited to vote Kuti once GL had already put him to e-1 not to wifom scum? Your vote did absolutely nothing to help Dann atp because had I voted Kuti, it would have been a tie and the earlier tie always wins, so I think for that to have really made any sense, you wouldn’t have waited until it was extremely likely too late to save him.

Oh wait, the “him” here was obviously referring to Dann not Kuti.

Lololol. I feel really dumb now. I was just so paranoid I accidently misgendered Kuti again that I just freaked out, Well, exteme relief that I actually didn’t and my correction just failed to make any sense.

[Loki Dokie]

VOTE: furtiveglance

Insta 180

Roden is mafia.

Pocketing Dannflor and Bell in quick succession.

As fun as that little minigame is, I said Roden was mafia before anyone else voted him so I'm happy to vote there. I also think Vivax is mafia, and I think Dannflor and Bell are town.

Meow me a river.

Also, that is the cutest avatar. I cannot tel if that is an actual cat or a doll.

Thank you, it's a cute cat.

What is your experience with the players in this player list

I've played with Fire, Dann, Furtive, Roden, Guilty, Radicalrat

(but it always feels like I'm playing adjacent to them)

.
And I completely forgot if I played with Aris before or if I just chatted with them in a dead thread once.

I think getting a lay of the land is kind of both.

@Fire, same. Mostly I play this game to understand people. Speaking of which.
Are you scum?

I feel that. There are just some players that I never really interact with even across multiple games.

It's this for me. It's just fluff, designed to pocket Bell.

VOTE: Roden

Is this sus

Yeah I'd definitely like Roden to say more before I considered voting there.

So did a quick ISO and found a bussing pattern on Roden. Meanwhile most of the posts with questioning intent were aimed at mostly me, and a bit of ari and Dann who both voted furtive very early.

The last post doesn‘t reflect the earlier confidence about Roden at all.

Would it make any sense at all for scum!furtive to pair him and Bell together in that case?

I really don’t see that making much sense?

[Loki Dokie]

As fun as that little minigame is, I said Roden was mafia before anyone else voted him so I'm happy to vote there. I also think Vivax is mafia, and I think Dannflor and Bell are town.

Iow, why does scum!furtive pair himself here with town!Bell?

[Loki Dokie]

Dann's obvtown here

No. They aren't.

I'm sorry I don't really care what people read me as.

it might be a character flaw

Do you care about getting voted out, or losing? Why do you play?

I play for fun, and I like surviving and winning, it hurts to get voted out and lose.

Aw.

Does Loki ever power woof?
Loki, out yourself.

On reread. a pretty odd post by Bell here. What does this question wrt to me have jack to do with the rest of this post?

[Loki Dokie]

I don't understand the Roden wagon. He's got three posts, and none of them strike me as particularly scummy.

Yeah same. Roden is very null to me.

I don't understand how you can sus the loki voters and also be null on roden

this feels like a contradiction to me.

I know we’re not voting on Roden today but this is an interesting catch.

[Loki Dokie]

Spoiler:

I feel like Roden gets wagoned every D1.

do you think he's scum ?

I’m town, I don’t know who the scum are.
Hope this helps.

ok but you have thoughts yes?

They have four posts. My only thought is “does Roden actually exist? Does anyone?”
The only people worth looking at for AI stuff are the active ones but the only actives one are the ones I don’t want to lim. So it’s a conundrum.

do you believe his inactivity is AI?

Hah, AI, gottem.

Bell’s posting is so strange here. He reads better in isolation than in interactions.

[Loki Dokie]

I'd rather we left Roden alone for the next RL day
And then come back to that because it's not morally wrong to lim someone going through a difficult time. Because it's not morally wrong to lim someone. But there are other alleys to explore.

VOTE: KittyTacky
Hi, are you scum?
What have you done this game that doesn't make you scum this game?

Bell votes Kitty to save Roden. If Roden is scum, he’s a far stronger scum player than Kitty, so perhaps scum had to bus Kitty to save Roden?

Kitty was 100% a coordinated bus, which is why he put up no resistance whatsoever.

[Loki Dokie]

Roden and Vulture are found unconscious. a gun with one bullet lies in between the two of them.

it is now day 4.

Oh wow, from two of my trs to to of my scumreads. :/

It won’t be as easy as last time.

[Loki Dokie]

Joined: July 14, 2020
Pronoun: He/him
Post Post #303 (isolation #59) » Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:30 pm

In post 189, Roden wrote:

Dann's obvtown here ~ Roden

No. They aren't. ~ Bell

Possible anti-associative?

[Loki Dokie]

Kuti vs Dann is also just ???

Unless scum are desperate to tie up the score, I don't see how Dann is ever scum here

Roden, if you're town and Dann is never scum here, why do you think mafia put mafia!kuti against town!Dann instead of you

Kuti is an odd choice, my only guess is that mafia needs Dann dead and that they think they can send me up against pretty much anyone and score. A dead influential townie now and a free point later isn't the worst strat in hindsight.

I dunno I need to sleep on it and really articulate it but I have this knawing fear that Dann is the deep wolf and furtive/Vivax/fire/Loki/Ari is basically the town bloc and Rat and Roden are trying to go for this "the simple explanation is correct kuti is kafia" tack with like NO apparent doubt that Dann might be scum, to try to get it back to even. Why would mafia be ok with risking going down 2-0, at that point town could fluke into a win on any of the last three tests it's such a dangerous position. If I were mafia and down 1-0 I'd be putting forward what I thought was one of our best chances to win a point

It sure is fun getting accused of being bad level zero scum every single game

Roden was advocating for Kuti lim but Greeting has in both instances tried to lead us astray. They tried to rush Dann vote than gave me shit for not explaining enough my furtive tr.

It’s pretty damned obvious scum was hoping I would hard defend Bell and I could see Vulture as possible salty scum who was annoyed that went in the opposite direction.

Idk but they have been very vocal and aggressive in both pushing Dann and furtive.

[Loki Dokie]

Eta: obviously meant Vulture.

D3, I said Dann died for his reads and he was obviously right on Bell but does scum throw scum!Roden into the test d4 or is he probably just a red herring?

[Loki Dokie]

Town ish vibes:

GuiltyLion: my first tr of the game, very much like they were in our previous games, just overall a gut and soul read
Loki: feeling good about this slot, their solving is logical (like how they are doing it in the thread), I like the effort to look into Vivax old game. In p#602
Greetign: weakest of the three, I feel like her emotions have been genuine. Dunno how to feel about the buddying
Kitty: weakest of them all, a town lean, their tone is genuine and maybe im weak to it.

Scummy vibes:
Dann: I feel like they kinda fell off since the beginning (I know I'm being a hypocrite)
Ari: I dunno how to feel about them trying to buddy everyone and her post have been agenda driven
Vivax: his tone and what not is not what I'm used to. He doesn't feel towny because he's missing his trademark tinfoil. I am sus of him
VOTE: vivax

Kuti’s read on Greeting isn’t extremely different from Kitty.

[Loki Dokie]

Post Post #1212 (isolation #3) » Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:35 pm

In post 1149, Aristeia wrote:

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I have bad news.
~ Bell

So Bell was actually telling the truth here, he just meant that Ari was wrong on Dann not him.

[Loki Dokie]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=35776

Vulture towngame

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=35776

Vulture scumgame

fire, if you read the scumgame it may explain some things.

[Loki Dokie]

i was in the scumgame. what about it?

Oh well I thought it might explain some things about the tests but maybe not.

[Loki Dokie]

Post Post #1212 (isolation #3) » Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:35 pm

In post 1149, Aristeia wrote:

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I have bad news.
~ Bell

So Bell was actually telling the truth here, he just meant that Ari was wrong on Dann not him.

@RR don’t you think this interaction with Ari and Bell looks antipartnery?

[Loki Dokie]

i was in the scumgame. what about it?

Oh well I thought it might explain some things about the tests but maybe not.

no i don't think vulture is very relevant to what i was talking about

i will say i am a little confused at some minor points around which town scum choose for the tests so far (mostly the previous two days?) and it feels fairly suboptimal and that always worries me a little bit

but we can talk about those thoughts tomorrow if necessary, hopefully we can just get it right today and not worry about it

Oh what did you mean then? but if you feel it would be better to not discuss until then fine, I guess.

[Loki Dokie]

vote count 1.final

with 13 votes in play, it took 7 to make a decision. day 1 ended.

yeet

KittyTacky [7]:

Bell

, Aristeia, GuiltyLion,

Dannflor

, Vulture, Vivax, fireisredsir

[HAMMER]

Vivax [5]:

Radical Rat,

furtiveglance

,

kutiplz, KittyTacky

, Roden

not voting [1]:

Loki Dokie

mod notes

~ i was literally about to sleep, why do you do this to me

[Loki Dokie]

vote count 1.final

with 13 votes in play, it took 7 to make a decision. day 1 ended.

yeet

KittyTacky [7]:

Bell

, Aristeia, GuiltyLion,

Dannflor

, Vulture, Vivax, fireisredsir

[HAMMER]

Vivax [5]:

Radical Rat,

furtiveglance

,

kutiplz, KittyTacky

, Roden

not voting [1]:

Loki Dokie

mod notes

~ i was literally about to sleep, why do you do this to me

I think specifically because of the mech, it’s extremely unlikely that 4/5 scum were on Vivax and only one bussed.

[Loki Dokie]

I think it's fairly trivial to fake not knowing who someone is or fake confusion in an interaction.

it's distancing without any real stakes and a light touch at that.

I don't think 1494 is definitive either way - contradictions are not solid evidence of alignment imo.

+1

I’m not sold on that meaning anything, at least in part because Bell probably hardly used the scum pt, because he hardly did in Pooky v FL.

[Loki Dokie]

[quote="In post 1462
Rat who do you think is scum that's not in the test right now?

Updated answer: Aristeia

I kind of want to see if Radical Rat will really vote for Vulture

it kind of almost feels like RR is in the same position Bell was in on D1

This is bait, and it's coming from scum. Not for scumreading me, but for trying to goad me into specific actions under the threat of scumreading me.

What's the point of bait if you're both not up for decision? Seems like an honest angle out of pure curiosity.
Think you and Ari both villa atp.

Then who do you think is the last scum then?

[Loki Dokie]

I don't think 1494 is definitive either way - contradictions are not solid evidence of alignment imo.

but how does town!Greeting evolve from "I understand why furtive is annoyed" to "There's no reason for town to be annoyed"? If they did understand it in the first place, they'd understand why town might act that way. To me it seems like one of those statements has to be a lie. the best case I can make for a town explanation is that Greeting was exaggerating in the second post to try to sell a case, but even that still seems fundamentally disingenuous

And that’s not the only time Greeting contradicts himself.

Greeting went from Roden isn’t doing anything to I want to hear Roden’s scumcase on furtive.

[Loki Dokie]

So apparently analysing and voting

Roden

should be my priority now. Let's look at his ISO.

Roden

is emotional when town, hates being wrongly accused, fiercely fights back when wrongly accused.

Roden

is much colder when scum.

This shouldn't be hard.

His game start was... bad. I know that he tends to get eliminated Day 1 really often and he's limbait pretty much though. That's why I wanted to cut him some slack and give him a chance to prove himself and why I consciously decided to ignore his pre-existing 4 posts when I joined the game. Nonetheless, it also does feel like a convenient excuse to not make an entrance and sneak back in the game only once it's started.

I noticed that

Loki Dokie

is being unusually aggressive in pursuing

Roden

for essentailly a naked vote in 188. The justification being that:

VOTE: Greeting

I did a meta dive and based off of that, I think he could be scum here.

So you checked my random town game and decided that whatever it is doesn't match to what I'm doing here?

Mission failed successfully.

If I’m somehow wrong on you, vote Roden. He has never wrongly sr me in any game ever. He’s one of those players like Mastina who never srs me as town.

This sounds like a very highly personal read and apparently un-outed alts are involved too, so it's also not provable. Sorry

Loki Dokie

, but on the surface this is a bad reason to push a read so strongly. That is a minus for scum

Roden

in my books actually.

Still,

Roden

's attitude towards this game doesn't seem very towny.

Posting just to say I'm not lurking, I've been dealing with a crisis with a friend and I'm more focused on that atm. I'll respond to stuff later tonight.

roden not actually following up feels pretty significantly +scum equity

Ngl I opened up the browser when I got home, quoted the Loki post, and then just smoked and went on youtube for a few hours instead

What game were we both in where I was scum? Or is that just a general read?

Where's the scumhunting energy? All I see is never ending excuses for why there is none.

Roden

, please explain who is your biggest scumread right now and why.

I'm becoming increasingly confident on Greeting, and Vivax hasn't really changed my mind, but I think I'll move my vote in the interests of momentum.

Greeting is playing, quite literally, like a robot.

VOTE: Greeting

How so?

I need to take a break for a while, but this is a reminder to myself to look into

Roden

's scumread of

furtiveglance

.

[Loki Dokie]

Spoiler:

Are you the other dog avatar. Because you’re the only player that comes into a game as an alt and immediately claims that they’re obviously the sog avatar when you’re significantly goofier when you’re the dog.

Ah andante.

What? I'm not

Andante

nor an alt.

*stares vacantly* Wisdom?
That doesn’t make any sense.
Just tell me. If you’re going to play coy about it.

Well more important question are you a polarized player where you play totally different as one alignment from another?

I feel like I got a tldr: from greeting that could be summed up as kill all lurkers.
Sure. Yeah. Okay.

I don't know if this was directed to me or anything. If you want to interact with me then you have to be very clear that the question is directed at me, because otherwise my brain will just decide it's not worth my effort.

As for my Day 1 strategy, it's pretty much work with what we've got, so leave the towniest out of the PoE and pick someone from the PoE. Because there will be no classic Day 2 or Day 3 for that matter and I don't want to be choosing between two lurkers.

Digging through the ISOs finally, and found these posts noteworthy. Greeting misinterprets Bell as addressing them twice, when Bell is actually talking to Loki.

What strikes me here is that if Greeting and Bell were sharing a scumchat, I don't think this kind of mistake gets made. The assumption that Bell would be pushing them for alt shenanigans instead of the person actively talking about being an alt and making reads based on others' knowledge of it is frankly quite silly as either alignment, but it makes even less sense if they're on a team and communicating outside the main thread. Like, from Greeting's PoV, if Bell wants to know their main they could have just asked in the PT, so the natural assumption would be that they mean someone else, right?

Subject: KTaNE [game over!]

Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes

modded by Datisi | backup-modded by GeorgeBailey | reviewed by Not Known 15 and Gypyx

player list:

1. catboi
   
   
2. PookyTheMagicalBear
   
   
3. Frogsterking
   
   
4. fireisredsir
   Lukewarm
   
   
5. Andante
   
   
6. Mistyx
   Morning Tweet
   
   
7. VP Baltar
   
   
8. GuiltyLion
   
   
9. Enchant
   The Bulge
   
   
10. Dwlee99
    
    
11. Cephrir
    
    
12. Greeting
    
    
13. Andresvmb
    *
    
14. Cat Scratch Fever
    
    
15. Menalque
    *
    
16. Titus
    *
    
17. Malakittens
    The Praetorian
    
    
18. StrangeMatter
    
    
19. Bell

bold = confirmed, asterisk = prod, strike = replaced

still talking:

Spoiler:

1. Andante,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , survives
   
2. GuiltyLion,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , survives
   
3. Enchant,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , survives
   
4. Dwlee99,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , survives
   
5. Cat Scratch Fever,
   DATS Inc. lazy jailkeeper
   , survives
   
6. Bell
   ,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , survives

explo-dead:

Spoiler:

1. fireisredsir,
   DATS Inc. 1-shot bulletproof bodyguard
   , executed day 1
   
2. catboi,
   DATS Inc. macho 1-shot daredevil innocent child
   , exploded night 1
   
3. Frogsterking,
   DATS Inc. intel master
   , executed day 2
   
4. Malakittens,
   GB Inc. informed infiltrator
   , executed day 3
   
5. Andresvmb,
   DATS Inc. simple doctor
   , exploded night 3
   
6. Greeting,
   DATS Inc. trainee
   , killed night 3
   
7. StrangeMatter,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , executed day 4
   
8. VP Baltar,
   GB Inc. 1-shot asteticizer
   , executed day 5
   
9. Titus,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , exploded night 5
   
10. Mistyx,
    GB Inc. 1-shot bomb rigger
    , executed day 6
    
11. Cephrir,
    DATS Inc. vanilla employee
    , killed night 6
    
12. Menalque,
    DATS Inc. non-consecutive night babysitter
    , executed day 7
    
13. PookyTheMagicalBear,
    GB Inc. 3-shot expert swapper
    , executed day 8

events & votecounts:

Spoiler:

1. day 1 starts | vc 1.00 | vc 1.01 | vc 1.02 | vc 1.03 | vc 1.04 | Lukewarm → fireisredsir | vc 1.05 | vc 1.06 | The Praetorian → Malakittens | vc 1.07 | vc 1.08 | The Bulge → Enchant | vc 1.09 | vc 1.10 | vc 1.11 | vc 1.12 | vc 1.13 | Morning Tweet → Mistyx | vc 1.13.5 | vc 1.14 | vc 1.15 | vc 1.16 | vc 1.final | twilight 1 starts | night 1 starts
   
2. day 2 starts | vc 2.00 | vc 2.01 | vc 2.02 | vc 2.03 | vc 2.04 | vc 2.final | twilight 2 starts | night 2 starts
   
3. day 3 starts | vc 3.00 | vc 3.01 | vc 3.02 | vc 3.03 | vc 3.04 | vc 3.05 | vc 3.06 | vc 3.07 | vc 3.08 | vc 3.final | twilight 3 starts | night 3 starts
   
4. day 4 starts | vc 4.00 | vc 4.01 | vc 4.02 | vc 4.03 | vc 4.04 | vc 4.05 | vc 4.06 | vc 4.07 | vc 4.08 | vc 4.final | twilight 4 starts | night 4 starts
   
5. day 5 starts | vc 5.00 | vc 5.01 | vc 5.02 | vc 5.03 | vc 5.04 | vc 5.05 | vc 5.06 | vc 5.07 | vc 5.08 | vc 5.final | twilight 5 starts | night 5 starts
   
6. day 6 starts | vc 6.00 | vc 6.01 | vc 6.02 | vc 6.final | twilight 6 starts | night 6 starts
   
7. day 7 starts | vc 7.00 | vc 7.01 | vc 7.02 | vc 7.03 | vc 7.04 | vc 7.05 | vc 7.06 | vc 7.final | twilight 7 starts | night 7 starts
   
8. day 8 starts | vc 8.00 | vc 8.01 | vc 8.02 | vc 8.03 | vc 8.04 | vc 8.05 | vc 8.06 | vc 8.final | day 8 ends
   
9. game over! | roles, links, events | post-game discussion begins

There is absolutely no way this happened because both Greeting and Bell were in KTANE - a very recent game, so why would Greeting think that Bell’s memory is so bad that he’d forget that Greeting was also in that game.

[Loki Dokie]

Spoiler:

Are you the other dog avatar. Because you’re the only player that comes into a game as an alt and immediately claims that they’re obviously the sog avatar when you’re significantly goofier when you’re the dog.

Ah andante.

What? I'm not

Andante

nor an alt.

*stares vacantly* Wisdom?
That doesn’t make any sense.
Just tell me. If you’re going to play coy about it.

Well more important question are you a polarized player where you play totally different as one alignment from another?

I feel like I got a tldr: from greeting that could be summed up as kill all lurkers.
Sure. Yeah. Okay.

I don't know if this was directed to me or anything. If you want to interact with me then you have to be very clear that the question is directed at me, because otherwise my brain will just decide it's not worth my effort.

As for my Day 1 strategy, it's pretty much work with what we've got, so leave the towniest out of the PoE and pick someone from the PoE. Because there will be no classic Day 2 or Day 3 for that matter and I don't want to be choosing between two lurkers.

Digging through the ISOs finally, and found these posts noteworthy. Greeting misinterprets Bell as addressing them twice, when Bell is actually talking to Loki.

What strikes me here is that if Greeting and Bell were sharing a scumchat, I don't think this kind of mistake gets made. The assumption that Bell would be pushing them for alt shenanigans instead of the person actively talking about being an alt and making reads based on others' knowledge of it is frankly quite silly as either alignment, but it makes even less sense if they're on a team and communicating outside the main thread. Like, from Greeting's PoV, if Bell wants to know their main they could have just asked in the PT, so the natural assumption would be that they mean someone else, right?

Subject: KTaNE [game over!]

Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes

modded by Datisi | backup-modded by GeorgeBailey | reviewed by Not Known 15 and Gypyx

player list:

1. catboi
   
   
2. PookyTheMagicalBear
   
   
3. Frogsterking
   
   
4. fireisredsir
   Lukewarm
   
   
5. Andante
   
   
6. Mistyx
   Morning Tweet
   
   
7. VP Baltar
   
   
8. GuiltyLion
   
   
9. Enchant
   The Bulge
   
   
10. Dwlee99
    
    
11. Cephrir
    
    
12. Greeting
    
    
13. Andresvmb
    *
    
14. Cat Scratch Fever
    
    
15. Menalque
    *
    
16. Titus
    *
    
17. Malakittens
    The Praetorian
    
    
18. StrangeMatter
    
    
19. Bell

bold = confirmed, asterisk = prod, strike = replaced

still talking:

Spoiler:

1. Andante,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , survives
   
2. GuiltyLion,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , survives
   
3. Enchant,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , survives
   
4. Dwlee99,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , survives
   
5. Cat Scratch Fever,
   DATS Inc. lazy jailkeeper
   , survives
   
6. Bell
   ,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , survives

explo-dead:

Spoiler:

1. fireisredsir,
   DATS Inc. 1-shot bulletproof bodyguard
   , executed day 1
   
2. catboi,
   DATS Inc. macho 1-shot daredevil innocent child
   , exploded night 1
   
3. Frogsterking,
   DATS Inc. intel master
   , executed day 2
   
4. Malakittens,
   GB Inc. informed infiltrator
   , executed day 3
   
5. Andresvmb,
   DATS Inc. simple doctor
   , exploded night 3
   
6. Greeting,
   DATS Inc. trainee
   , killed night 3
   
7. StrangeMatter,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , executed day 4
   
8. VP Baltar,
   GB Inc. 1-shot asteticizer
   , executed day 5
   
9. Titus,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , exploded night 5
   
10. Mistyx,
    GB Inc. 1-shot bomb rigger
    , executed day 6
    
11. Cephrir,
    DATS Inc. vanilla employee
    , killed night 6
    
12. Menalque,
    DATS Inc. non-consecutive night babysitter
    , executed day 7
    
13. PookyTheMagicalBear,
    GB Inc. 3-shot expert swapper
    , executed day 8

events & votecounts:

Spoiler:

1. day 1 starts | vc 1.00 | vc 1.01 | vc 1.02 | vc 1.03 | vc 1.04 | Lukewarm → fireisredsir | vc 1.05 | vc 1.06 | The Praetorian → Malakittens | vc 1.07 | vc 1.08 | The Bulge → Enchant | vc 1.09 | vc 1.10 | vc 1.11 | vc 1.12 | vc 1.13 | Morning Tweet → Mistyx | vc 1.13.5 | vc 1.14 | vc 1.15 | vc 1.16 | vc 1.final | twilight 1 starts | night 1 starts
   
2. day 2 starts | vc 2.00 | vc 2.01 | vc 2.02 | vc 2.03 | vc 2.04 | vc 2.final | twilight 2 starts | night 2 starts
   
3. day 3 starts | vc 3.00 | vc 3.01 | vc 3.02 | vc 3.03 | vc 3.04 | vc 3.05 | vc 3.06 | vc 3.07 | vc 3.08 | vc 3.final | twilight 3 starts | night 3 starts
   
4. day 4 starts | vc 4.00 | vc 4.01 | vc 4.02 | vc 4.03 | vc 4.04 | vc 4.05 | vc 4.06 | vc 4.07 | vc 4.08 | vc 4.final | twilight 4 starts | night 4 starts
   
5. day 5 starts | vc 5.00 | vc 5.01 | vc 5.02 | vc 5.03 | vc 5.04 | vc 5.05 | vc 5.06 | vc 5.07 | vc 5.08 | vc 5.final | twilight 5 starts | night 5 starts
   
6. day 6 starts | vc 6.00 | vc 6.01 | vc 6.02 | vc 6.final | twilight 6 starts | night 6 starts
   
7. day 7 starts | vc 7.00 | vc 7.01 | vc 7.02 | vc 7.03 | vc 7.04 | vc 7.05 | vc 7.06 | vc 7.final | twilight 7 starts | night 7 starts
   
8. day 8 starts | vc 8.00 | vc 8.01 | vc 8.02 | vc 8.03 | vc 8.04 | vc 8.05 | vc 8.06 | vc 8.final | day 8 ends
   
9. game over! | roles, links, events | post-game discussion begins

There is absolutely no way this happened because both Greeting and Bell were in KTANE - a very recent game, so why would Greeting think that Bell’s memory is so bad that he’d forget that Greeting was also in that game.

Oh and look who was also in this game - that took place

5 months ago

. Did you all guess

Andante

?



So Greeting also apparently thought that Bell also forgot that Andante was also in KTANE.

[Loki Dokie]

Are you the other dog avatar. Because you’re the only player that comes into a game as an alt and immediately claims that they’re obviously the sog avatar when you’re significantly goofier when you’re the dog.

Ah andante.

What? I'm not

Andante

nor an alt.

Greeting, Bell and Andante were all in a game together that happened 5 months ago, so why would Greeting think that Bell would mix him up with Andante?

[Loki Dokie]

Post Post #1212 (isolation #3) » Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:35 pm

In post 1149, Aristeia wrote:

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I have bad news.
~ Bell

So Bell was actually telling the truth here, he just meant that Ari was wrong on Dann not him.

@RR don’t you think this interaction with Ari and Bell looks antipartnery?

@RR?

[Loki Dokie]

I...don't know why I'm alive. That was one of my worst Day 1's in awhile, I expected to get thrown in the pit for an easy scum point.

I understand Kitty flipped red but I genuinely don't know why he got flipped at all. Every time I've seem scum!Kitty, he fights hard to live and gets hard protected by his allies, with all the pressure on him and no real defense I thought he was just town LHF again. There's no way he wasn't bussed, because I still don't think he did anything particularly scummy for people to want him out as badly as everyone did.

Roden, if you're town and Dann is never scum here, why do you think mafia put mafia!kuti against town!Dann instead of you

Kuti is an odd choice, my only guess is that mafia needs Dann dead and that they think they can send me up against pretty much anyone and score. A dead influential townie now and a free point later isn't the worst strat in hindsight.

I dunno I need to sleep on it and really articulate it but I have this knawing fear that Dann is the deep wolf and furtive/Vivax/fire/Loki/Ari is basically the town bloc and Rat and Roden are trying to go for this "the simple explanation is correct kuti is kafia" tack with like NO apparent doubt that Dann might be scum, to try to get it back to even. Why would mafia be ok with risking going down 2-0, at that point town could fluke into a win on any of the last three tests it's such a dangerous position. If I were mafia and down 1-0 I'd be putting forward what I thought was one of our best chances to win a point

It sure is fun getting accused of being bad level zero scum every single game

If we get this right, we won’t have to worry who it is and I still think it’s Vulture. Roden’s vote on me may have been bad but Vulture tried to rush Dann vote and hard doubt my furtive read

Dann’s problem is that he always thinks than anyone obv tr him has to be scum and if Roden has any experience playing with town!Dann whatsoever I don’t see how he wouldn’t know this.

[Loki Dokie]

@Vivax, I’m not following?

I don’t see how any of this refutes anything I’ve been sayong wrt Greeting v Roden?

[Loki Dokie]

I think that the vote placements of both Loki and Roden around these pages are sus, they're both placed at pos 3 or 4 after getting wagoned respectively, but Loki voted Roden after this progression:

Spoiler:

Loki how would you describe your scumgame? since you are a heavy meta player I'd like to understand what you think are the meta differences between your own town and scumplay

It’s more of what I don’t do as scum as opposed to what I do do. Like I do a lot more obvious townie things as town, especially as the game progresses.

The fact that I already got as many votes as I did, is a strong indicator that I’m town here fwiw because that extremely rarely ever happens to me as scum which Roden would definitely know if he knew who I was.

I oppose Roden lunch and Furtive is mafia
Which will probably not make a difference

I don’t think he is because unless his scumgame has drastically improved, I get townpings from his posts here. Like he was flaming obvscum in that game and I don’t think someone’s scumgame improves that quickly.

And why is Roden town? It’s pretty much a coin flip which of you had the most suss takes on me.

VOTE: Roden

228 indicates Loki who

should

be thinking Roden is mafia
233 indicates coin flip read
250 is voting following thread sentiment

Oh you think I’m the last scum here? Well you’d be 100% wrong in that case, so if that’s the sole basis for your Roden vote, I strongly advise you to rethink it.

[Loki Dokie]

I think that the vote placements of both Loki and Roden around these pages are sus, they're both placed at pos 3 or 4 after getting wagoned respectively, but Loki voted Roden after this progression:

Spoiler:

Loki how would you describe your scumgame? since you are a heavy meta player I'd like to understand what you think are the meta differences between your own town and scumplay

It’s more of what I don’t do as scum as opposed to what I do do. Like I do a lot more obvious townie things as town, especially as the game progresses.

The fact that I already got as many votes as I did, is a strong indicator that I’m town here fwiw because that extremely rarely ever happens to me as scum which Roden would definitely know if he knew who I was.

I oppose Roden lunch and Furtive is mafia
Which will probably not make a difference

I don’t think he is because unless his scumgame has drastically improved, I get townpings from his posts here. Like he was flaming obvscum in that game and I don’t think someone’s scumgame improves that quickly.

And why is Roden town? It’s pretty much a coin flip which of you had the most suss takes on me.

VOTE: Roden

228 indicates Loki who

should

be thinking Roden is mafia
233 indicates coin flip read
250 is voting following thread sentiment

Oh you think I’m the last scum here? Well you’d be 100% wrong in that case, so if that’s the sole basis for your Roden vote, I strongly advise you to rethink it.

In that case you'd HAVE to think and promote that fire is scum

Why? I don’t think it’s fire. Why would I want to push slots I think are town?

I don’t want us to lose, so no I have 0 interest in pushing my trs.

[Loki Dokie]

I think that fire, GL and Ari are town. I thought you were as well but I’m slightly paranoing on you now. I still think last scum is probably RR unless it’s actually you.


GL - sounds like his towngame

ARi - anti-associates with Bell

+ after being wrong on Dann, wanted to sheep fire.

fire - like duh, has had the correct takes every single fucking time!

Not rocket science.

[Loki Dokie]

Seriously @Vivax, in what world do you think fire ever makes sense here? Had we listened to him on Dann, the game would be over now.

[Loki Dokie]

I would also seriously like to understand why either RR and Vivax are suddenly tr the player that tried to rush though Dann vote and gave me shit for my furtive tr?

I really want to understand how that’s town. Please humour me.

[Loki Dokie]

Ari, Dann, Loki are mafia on an incomplete reread.

Roden, Furtive maybe town from page 8 behaviour.

Fireisred is peculiar.

The first two I kinda get, don't really agree with Dannflor.

I don't know where you got Loki being mafia from. They seem very town, their entire gameview is based on mafia trying to get them out. I don't think scum would play like that nor have I ever seen it.

Just reposting this, just in case Vivax actually is seriously bad town here.[/b]

Only think he’s managed to accomplish is doubt my sr on RR because I know it’s not me obviously and I seriously doubt it’s ever GL, Ari and especially fire.

That definitely really pinged me, that Vivax asked me to make a scumcase on the most obvious town player still alive in the game, to prove I’m not scum.

Like maybe it actually is Vivax and I’m wrong on RR?

[Loki Dokie]

vote count 1.11

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

KittyTacky [6]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion, Dannflor, Vulture, Vivax

Vivax [5]:

Radical Rat, furtiveglance, kutiplz, KittyTacky, Roden

Bell [1]:

fireisredsir

not voting [1]:

Loki Dokie

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

Most based votecount I found

VOTE: Roden

Because either you or fire were not hammering KT
While I've had 2 flipped scum on me at minimum
And KT had one flipped on them

So either you argue both wagons were scum, or that you and fire are always a t/m combo and try to reach Rodens alignment from there

Knowing I'm town, I highly doubt Vulture wouldn't pile on me as scum there, for me it's easier to reach the conclusion that Roden is the one we lim

Why wouldn’t Vulture pile on you as scum?

How does fire make sense as scum? He strongly advocated us to vote for both Kuti and Bell? Which means we would have actually fucking won.

[Loki Dokie]

I was also the first one on your wagon and I unvoted, because I had doubts it was you and wasn’t convinced on Kitty. Had a Greeting wagon been an option, I 100% would have voted that.

[Loki Dokie]

It's a bit too late in the game for the kneejerk OMGUS to look viable
Regardless, my objective is to kill Roden and end the game

Well I honestly don’t gaf and since I know it’s not me and I don’t see how it’s GL, Ari or fire, it makes perfect sense to me and since I know you’re wrong on me if you’re town and that is wrongly factoring into your Roden vote. why should I be trusting it?

Fmpov, you’re either wrong town or scum when it comes to me, so no as long as that’s factoring into to your Roden vote, I’m 100% not trusting it.

[Loki Dokie]

But you know what, if the town votes Vulture out instead and I need to put more work in it's no biggie. I'm loving this game, the players are very motivated

I want a Roden scumcase and/or Vulture towncase that has nothing whatsoever to do with me. I’d also really like to understand why you’re tr RR and sr me, because had I not unvoted, perhaps Vulture hammers?

I think Bell never moves because he was totally focused on getting towncred with his votes on both days.

[Loki Dokie]

I'm just struggling to figure out how to participate without inducing WIFOM by just existing

I feel like I'm in a weird spot where anything I say is going to get interpreted as being way more layered than it actually is. Some of the votes on Dann were made because of a pre-flipped read on me and looking too deeply into my town read on him. Idk, I don't want to ruin the game by centralizing who to vote for over things that are in my ISO.

This is not a townie train of thought, but rather the thought of someone who knows that the information he gives can be used to determine the correct launch

Both of them look really bad here but what we need to determine is which one looks worse. Anyway. you should read through my interactions with both Roden and Vulture because I think it’s beyond obvious I’m not aligned with either.

Because if you’re town, I don’t want that to influence your Roden read.

[Loki Dokie]

My problem is also, I’m paranoiaing on both RR and you now and both of you are pushing Roden. It’s possible it’s reverse psychology to make me vote Vulture but I need to think more on this.

I want to hear what Ari and fire think.

[Loki Dokie]

If KittyTacky is scum here then I would suspect they are being actively sacrificed by scum.

There’s your answer @Vivax. Ari was not going to let Kitty escape, so Vulture if scum, would obviously bus here.

[Loki Dokie]

vote count 1.final

with 13 votes in play, it took 7 to make a decision. day 1 ended.

yeet

KittyTacky [7]:

Bell

, Aristeia, GuiltyLion,

Dannflor

, Vulture, Vivax, fireisredsir

[HAMMER]

Vivax [5]:

Radical Rat,

furtiveglance

,

kutiplz, KittyTacky

, Roden

not voting [1]:

Loki Dokie

mod notes

~ i was literally about to sleep, why do you do this to me

I think specifically because of the mech, it’s extremely unlikely that 4/5 scum were on Vivax and only one bussed.

I’m going to say it again. I don’t believe Bell was the only scum bussing Kitty. Ari was hellbent on Kitty going through and Dann was equally hellbent on Vivax not.

So Vivax, that is a seriously bad metric for tr Vulture here.

As for your fire read, in a world where he’s ever scum here, he deserves the win but I don’t see why he’d be hardpushing the correct votes on both d2 and 3 if he were scum here. Because then he’d be essentially gamethrowing if scum because scum was one down.

[Loki Dokie]

If KittyTacky is scum here then I would suspect they are being actively sacrificed by scum.

There’s your answer @Vivax. Ari was not going to let Kitty escape, so Vulture if scum, would obviously bus here.

All I know is that my gut reaction to the Vivax wagon is disgust

VOTE: KittyTacky

And this, so I ask you again, how this clears Vulture?

[Loki Dokie]

If KittyTacky is scum here then I would suspect they are being actively sacrificed by scum.

There’s your answer @Vivax. Ari was not going to let Kitty escape, so Vulture if scum, would obviously bus here.

All I know is that my gut reaction to the Vivax wagon is disgust

VOTE: KittyTacky

And this, so I ask you again, how this clears Vulture?

[Loki Dokie]

4 scum on my wagon except Bell then?
It‘s possible tbh, but calling Loki mafia is kinda fun for the hard Omgus every time anyway

It’s not fun if we lose because of it and Greeting also had this weird post calling RR a deep wolf, which is what I expected today’s pairing to be.

Knowing that everyone and their uncle had pretty much already locked Roden in as scum, why was if scum, was he paired with Vulture, instead whomever was the final scum?

[Loki Dokie]

But I sympathize with tinfoilers. The first elim is the most important for the scummers however

If KittyTacky is scum here then I would suspect they are being actively sacrificed by scum.

There’s your answer @Vivax. Ari was not going to let Kitty escape, so Vulture if scum, would obviously bus here.

All I know is that my gut reaction to the Vivax wagon is disgust

VOTE: KittyTacky

And this, so I ask you again, how this clears Vulture?

I’m saying scum really had no choice. There was no way Kitty wasn’t going through.

[Loki Dokie]

also for full disclosure when i typed that d1 i was kinda thinking about the possibility that bell, GL, and ari could have just decided to all group as 3 and hard bus kitty lol

that's obviously not what happened since at least one of GL/ari is town tho

i also at the time didn't fully realize how damaging to scum it would be to have a scum death d1. i think that GL or ari probably would as scum? but id also think vulture would so idk. ig as a recent replace in they might not have fully thought through the setup

Of course it was damaging to scum but if you’re scum and you know short of a last minute miracle, your buddy’s getting whacked, it’s like the making lemons out of lemonade thing, so why not jump on Kitty atp for free towncred?

And especially for Vulture, being a late day replace in, so they could vote wherever with 0 suspicion on them.

[Loki Dokie]

this setup is not a normal game tho and scum are very aware about how people will be heavily analyzing the d1 vcs for associations and wagonomics considering multiple scum have to flip guaranteed

If scum get the first elim right and ML someone, they can get a whole bunch of townies (but at least 2) that are potential victims later on for being on the wrong wagon. Plus the points system disincentivizes bussing.

There‘s also the tendency to assume that 4 scummers don‘t vote together which is somewhat of a gamblers fallacy.

The only question is if you expect them to be more vs less organized but in the average game it‘s mostly everyone for himself. If they were organized they could have hammered me when I was at L-2 and L-1.

So we‘re not dealing with a highly coordinated team fmpov

If scum was smart, they would have just tried to ram through Bell but probably didn’t have a choice. That or keep him out of the test, because probably everyone else on that team would have had a better chance.

[Loki Dokie]

I was in a game once where a playee was completely wooden whenever he either discussed reads or talked about the game. He also happened to be extremely physically ill att but whenever he talked about that, he was totally genuine. He wound up flipping scum.

[Loki Dokie]

I have absolutely no doubt that Greeting was telling the truth about his mental heakth issues. That doesn’t maje him town.

[Loki Dokie]

Are you the other dog avatar. Because you’re the only player that comes into a game as an alt and immediately claims that they’re obviously the sog avatar when you’re significantly goofier when you’re the dog.

Ah andante.

What? I'm not

Andante

nor an alt.

*stares vacantly* Wisdom?
That doesn’t make any sense.
Just tell me. If you’re going to play coy about it.

Well more important question are you a polarized player where you play totally different as one alignment from another?

I feel like I got a tldr: from greeting that could be summed up as kill all lurkers.
Sure. Yeah. Okay.

I don't know if this was directed to me or anything. If you want to interact with me then you have to be very clear that the question is directed at me, because otherwise my brain will just decide it's not worth my effort.

As for my Day 1 strategy, it's pretty much work with what we've got, so leave the towniest out of the PoE and pick someone from the PoE. Because there will be no classic Day 2 or Day 3 for that matter and I don't want to be choosing between two lurkers.

Digging through the ISOs finally, and found these posts noteworthy. Greeting misinterprets Bell as addressing them twice, when Bell is actually talking to Loki.

What strikes me here is that if Greeting and Bell were sharing a scumchat, I don't think this kind of mistake gets made. The assumption that Bell would be pushing them for alt shenanigans instead of the person actively talking about being an alt and making reads based on others' knowledge of it is frankly quite silly as either alignment, but it makes even less sense if they're on a team and communicating outside the main thread. Like, from Greeting's PoV, if Bell wants to know their main they could have just asked in the PT, so the natural assumption would be that they mean someone else, right?

Spoiler:

Are you the other dog avatar. Because you’re the only player that comes into a game as an alt and immediately claims that they’re obviously the sog avatar when you’re significantly goofier when you’re the dog.

Ah andante.

What? I'm not

Andante

nor an alt.

*stares vacantly* Wisdom?
That doesn’t make any sense.
Just tell me. If you’re going to play coy about it.

Well more important question are you a polarized player where you play totally different as one alignment from another?

I feel like I got a tldr: from greeting that could be summed up as kill all lurkers.
Sure. Yeah. Okay.

I don't know if this was directed to me or anything. If you want to interact with me then you have to be very clear that the question is directed at me, because otherwise my brain will just decide it's not worth my effort.

As for my Day 1 strategy, it's pretty much work with what we've got, so leave the towniest out of the PoE and pick someone from the PoE. Because there will be no classic Day 2 or Day 3 for that matter and I don't want to be choosing between two lurkers.

Digging through the ISOs finally, and found these posts noteworthy. Greeting misinterprets Bell as addressing them twice, when Bell is actually talking to Loki.

What strikes me here is that if Greeting and Bell were sharing a scumchat, I don't think this kind of mistake gets made. The assumption that Bell would be pushing them for alt shenanigans instead of the person actively talking about being an alt and making reads based on others' knowledge of it is frankly quite silly as either alignment, but it makes even less sense if they're on a team and communicating outside the main thread. Like, from Greeting's PoV, if Bell wants to know their main they could have just asked in the PT, so the natural assumption would be that they mean someone else, right?

Subject: KTaNE [game over!]

Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes

modded by Datisi | backup-modded by GeorgeBailey | reviewed by Not Known 15 and Gypyx

player list:

1. catboi
   
   
2. PookyTheMagicalBear
   
   
3. Frogsterking
   
   
4. fireisredsir
   Lukewarm
   
   
5. Andante
   
   
6. Mistyx
   Morning Tweet
   
   
7. VP Baltar
   
   
8. GuiltyLion
   
   
9. Enchant
   The Bulge
   
   
10. Dwlee99
    
    
11. Cephrir
    
    
12. Greeting
    
    
13. Andresvmb
    *
    
14. Cat Scratch Fever
    
    
15. Menalque
    *
    
16. Titus
    *
    
17. Malakittens
    The Praetorian
    
    
18. StrangeMatter
    
    
19. Bell

bold = confirmed, asterisk = prod, strike = replaced

still talking:

Spoiler:

1. Andante,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , survives
   
2. GuiltyLion,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , survives
   
3. Enchant,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , survives
   
4. Dwlee99,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , survives
   
5. Cat Scratch Fever,
   DATS Inc. lazy jailkeeper
   , survives
   
6. Bell
   ,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , survives

explo-dead:

Spoiler:

1. fireisredsir,
   DATS Inc. 1-shot bulletproof bodyguard
   , executed day 1
   
2. catboi,
   DATS Inc. macho 1-shot daredevil innocent child
   , exploded night 1
   
3. Frogsterking,
   DATS Inc. intel master
   , executed day 2
   
4. Malakittens,
   GB Inc. informed infiltrator
   , executed day 3
   
5. Andresvmb,
   DATS Inc. simple doctor
   , exploded night 3
   
6. Greeting,
   DATS Inc. trainee
   , killed night 3
   
7. StrangeMatter,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , executed day 4
   
8. VP Baltar,
   GB Inc. 1-shot asteticizer
   , executed day 5
   
9. Titus,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , exploded night 5
   
10. Mistyx,
    GB Inc. 1-shot bomb rigger
    , executed day 6
    
11. Cephrir,
    DATS Inc. vanilla employee
    , killed night 6
    
12. Menalque,
    DATS Inc. non-consecutive night babysitter
    , executed day 7
    
13. PookyTheMagicalBear,
    GB Inc. 3-shot expert swapper
    , executed day 8

events & votecounts:

Spoiler:

1. day 1 starts | vc 1.00 | vc 1.01 | vc 1.02 | vc 1.03 | vc 1.04 | Lukewarm → fireisredsir | vc 1.05 | vc 1.06 | The Praetorian → Malakittens | vc 1.07 | vc 1.08 | The Bulge → Enchant | vc 1.09 | vc 1.10 | vc 1.11 | vc 1.12 | vc 1.13 | Morning Tweet → Mistyx | vc 1.13.5 | vc 1.14 | vc 1.15 | vc 1.16 | vc 1.final | twilight 1 starts | night 1 starts
   
2. day 2 starts | vc 2.00 | vc 2.01 | vc 2.02 | vc 2.03 | vc 2.04 | vc 2.final | twilight 2 starts | night 2 starts
   
3. day 3 starts | vc 3.00 | vc 3.01 | vc 3.02 | vc 3.03 | vc 3.04 | vc 3.05 | vc 3.06 | vc 3.07 | vc 3.08 | vc 3.final | twilight 3 starts | night 3 starts
   
4. day 4 starts | vc 4.00 | vc 4.01 | vc 4.02 | vc 4.03 | vc 4.04 | vc 4.05 | vc 4.06 | vc 4.07 | vc 4.08 | vc 4.final | twilight 4 starts | night 4 starts
   
5. day 5 starts | vc 5.00 | vc 5.01 | vc 5.02 | vc 5.03 | vc 5.04 | vc 5.05 | vc 5.06 | vc 5.07 | vc 5.08 | vc 5.final | twilight 5 starts | night 5 starts
   
6. day 6 starts | vc 6.00 | vc 6.01 | vc 6.02 | vc 6.final | twilight 6 starts | night 6 starts
   
7. day 7 starts | vc 7.00 | vc 7.01 | vc 7.02 | vc 7.03 | vc 7.04 | vc 7.05 | vc 7.06 | vc 7.final | twilight 7 starts | night 7 starts
   
8. day 8 starts | vc 8.00 | vc 8.01 | vc 8.02 | vc 8.03 | vc 8.04 | vc 8.05 | vc 8.06 | vc 8.final | day 8 ends
   
9. game over! | roles, links, events | post-game discussion begins

There is absolutely no way this happened because both Greeting and Bell were in KTANE - a very recent game, so why would Greeting think that Bell’s memory is so bad that he’d forget that Greeting was also in that game.

Oh and look who was also in this game - that took place

5 months ago

. Did you all guess

Andante

?



So Greeting also apparently thought that Bell also forgot that Andante was also in KTANE.

@RR, why no comment on this post?

[Loki Dokie]

I have absolutely no doubt that Greeting was telling the truth about his mental heakth issues. That doesn’t maje him town.

I think you misread, it was that they struggled with giving leeway to people with issues

I also believe that as well but my previous point about the sick dude who was as genuine af discussing all that, remains unchanged.

Scum are only fake about making reads, takes on the game, etc. - not about anything not specifically related to it. I once had a legit meltdown in a game as scum because I sincerely thought I was being trolled. I know it’s hard to understand how I could logically think that as scum but for some reason I sincerely believed that I was. Being genuine - In GENERAL - doesn’t make you town.

If I’m scum, I can discuss anything unrelated to actual reads and be completely genuine about that because scum only actually needs to fake that. It’s a complete myth that scum necessarily fakes their emotions and when you look at Roden’s ISO, it sounds far more genuine - specifically anything reads related, than does Greeting.

I would seriously love to hear arguments from either you or RR about why you think Roden is being fake? Why does scum!Roden make that post about not understanding why Kitty was flipped? Do you read that as scum posturing or as genuine confusion?

As I have already stated, I unvoted you because I had doubts on you being scum but I also had doubts on Kitty, which is why I didn’t vote either but I would have. - in a heartbeat - voted Greeting, had that wagon actually been viable.

[Loki Dokie]

Spoiler:

Are you the other dog avatar. Because you’re the only player that comes into a game as an alt and immediately claims that they’re obviously the sog avatar when you’re significantly goofier when you’re the dog.

Ah andante.

What? I'm not

Andante

nor an alt.

*stares vacantly* Wisdom?
That doesn’t make any sense.
Just tell me. If you’re going to play coy about it.

Well more important question are you a polarized player where you play totally different as one alignment from another?

I feel like I got a tldr: from greeting that could be summed up as kill all lurkers.
Sure. Yeah. Okay.

I don't know if this was directed to me or anything. If you want to interact with me then you have to be very clear that the question is directed at me, because otherwise my brain will just decide it's not worth my effort.

As for my Day 1 strategy, it's pretty much work with what we've got, so leave the towniest out of the PoE and pick someone from the PoE. Because there will be no classic Day 2 or Day 3 for that matter and I don't want to be choosing between two lurkers.

Digging through the ISOs finally, and found these posts noteworthy. Greeting misinterprets Bell as addressing them twice, when Bell is actually talking to Loki.

What strikes me here is that if Greeting and Bell were sharing a scumchat, I don't think this kind of mistake gets made. The assumption that Bell would be pushing them for alt shenanigans instead of the person actively talking about being an alt and making reads based on others' knowledge of it is frankly quite silly as either alignment, but it makes even less sense if they're on a team and communicating outside the main thread. Like, from Greeting's PoV, if Bell wants to know their main they could have just asked in the PT, so the natural assumption would be that they mean someone else, right?

Spoiler:

Are you the other dog avatar. Because you’re the only player that comes into a game as an alt and immediately claims that they’re obviously the sog avatar when you’re significantly goofier when you’re the dog.

Ah andante.

What? I'm not

Andante

nor an alt.

*stares vacantly* Wisdom?
That doesn’t make any sense.
Just tell me. If you’re going to play coy about it.

Well more important question are you a polarized player where you play totally different as one alignment from another?

I feel like I got a tldr: from greeting that could be summed up as kill all lurkers.
Sure. Yeah. Okay.

I don't know if this was directed to me or anything. If you want to interact with me then you have to be very clear that the question is directed at me, because otherwise my brain will just decide it's not worth my effort.

As for my Day 1 strategy, it's pretty much work with what we've got, so leave the towniest out of the PoE and pick someone from the PoE. Because there will be no classic Day 2 or Day 3 for that matter and I don't want to be choosing between two lurkers.

Digging through the ISOs finally, and found these posts noteworthy. Greeting misinterprets Bell as addressing them twice, when Bell is actually talking to Loki.

What strikes me here is that if Greeting and Bell were sharing a scumchat, I don't think this kind of mistake gets made. The assumption that Bell would be pushing them for alt shenanigans instead of the person actively talking about being an alt and making reads based on others' knowledge of it is frankly quite silly as either alignment, but it makes even less sense if they're on a team and communicating outside the main thread. Like, from Greeting's PoV, if Bell wants to know their main they could have just asked in the PT, so the natural assumption would be that they mean someone else, right?

Subject: KTaNE [game over!]

Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes

modded by Datisi | backup-modded by GeorgeBailey | reviewed by Not Known 15 and Gypyx

player list:

1. catboi
   
   
2. PookyTheMagicalBear
   
   
3. Frogsterking
   
   
4. fireisredsir
   Lukewarm
   
   
5. Andante
   
   
6. Mistyx
   Morning Tweet
   
   
7. VP Baltar
   
   
8. GuiltyLion
   
   
9. Enchant
   The Bulge
   
   
10. Dwlee99
    
    
11. Cephrir
    
    
12. Greeting
    
    
13. Andresvmb
    *
    
14. Cat Scratch Fever
    
    
15. Menalque
    *
    
16. Titus
    *
    
17. Malakittens
    The Praetorian
    
    
18. StrangeMatter
    
    
19. Bell

bold = confirmed, asterisk = prod, strike = replaced

still talking:

1. Andante,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , survives
   
2. GuiltyLion,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , survives
   
3. Enchant,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , survives
   
4. Dwlee99,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , survives
   
5. Cat Scratch Fever,
   DATS Inc. lazy jailkeeper
   , survives
   
6. Bell
   ,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , survives

explo-dead:

Spoiler:

1. fireisredsir,
   DATS Inc. 1-shot bulletproof bodyguard
   , executed day 1
   
2. catboi,
   DATS Inc. macho 1-shot daredevil innocent child
   , exploded night 1
   
3. Frogsterking,
   DATS Inc. intel master
   , executed day 2
   
4. Malakittens,
   GB Inc. informed infiltrator
   , executed day 3
   
5. Andresvmb,
   DATS Inc. simple doctor
   , exploded night 3
   
6. Greeting,
   DATS Inc. trainee
   , killed night 3
   
7. StrangeMatter,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , executed day 4
   
8. VP Baltar,
   GB Inc. 1-shot asteticizer
   , executed day 5
   
9. Titus,
   DATS Inc. vanilla employee
   , exploded night 5
   
10. Mistyx,
    GB Inc. 1-shot bomb rigger
    , executed day 6
    
11. Cephrir,
    DATS Inc. vanilla employee
    , killed night 6
    
12. Menalque,
    DATS Inc. non-consecutive night babysitter
    , executed day 7
    
13. PookyTheMagicalBear,
    GB Inc. 3-shot expert swapper
    , executed day 8

events & votecounts:

Spoiler:

1. day 1 starts | vc 1.00 | vc 1.01 | vc 1.02 | vc 1.03 | vc 1.04 | Lukewarm → fireisredsir | vc 1.05 | vc 1.06 | The Praetorian → Malakittens | vc 1.07 | vc 1.08 | The Bulge → Enchant | vc 1.09 | vc 1.10 | vc 1.11 | vc 1.12 | vc 1.13 | Morning Tweet → Mistyx | vc 1.13.5 | vc 1.14 | vc 1.15 | vc 1.16 | vc 1.final | twilight 1 starts | night 1 starts
   
2. day 2 starts | vc 2.00 | vc 2.01 | vc 2.02 | vc 2.03 | vc 2.04 | vc 2.final | twilight 2 starts | night 2 starts
   
3. day 3 starts | vc 3.00 | vc 3.01 | vc 3.02 | vc 3.03 | vc 3.04 | vc 3.05 | vc 3.06 | vc 3.07 | vc 3.08 | vc 3.final | twilight 3 starts | night 3 starts
   
4. day 4 starts | vc 4.00 | vc 4.01 | vc 4.02 | vc 4.03 | vc 4.04 | vc 4.05 | vc 4.06 | vc 4.07 | vc 4.08 | vc 4.final | twilight 4 starts | night 4 starts
   
5. day 5 starts | vc 5.00 | vc 5.01 | vc 5.02 | vc 5.03 | vc 5.04 | vc 5.05 | vc 5.06 | vc 5.07 | vc 5.08 | vc 5.final | twilight 5 starts | night 5 starts
   
6. day 6 starts | vc 6.00 | vc 6.01 | vc 6.02 | vc 6.final | twilight 6 starts | night 6 starts
   
7. day 7 starts | vc 7.00 | vc 7.01 | vc 7.02 | vc 7.03 | vc 7.04 | vc 7.05 | vc 7.06 | vc 7.final | twilight 7 starts | night 7 starts
   
8. day 8 starts | vc 8.00 | vc 8.01 | vc 8.02 | vc 8.03 | vc 8.04 | vc 8.05 | vc 8.06 | vc 8.final | day 8 ends
   
9. game over! | roles, links, events | post-game discussion begins

/font]

There is absolutely no way this happened because both Greeting and Bell were in KTANE - a very recent game, so why would Greeting think that Bell’s memory is so bad that he’d forget that Greeting was also in that game.

Oh and look who was also in this game - that took place

5 months ago

. Did you all guess

Andante

?



So Greeting also apparently thought that Bell also forgot that Andante was also in KTANE.

@RR, why no comment on this post?

Because I'm juggling a lot lately and forgot to, but yeah Greeting shares exactly that concern, so clearly he didn't forget. Which makes it even stranger of an interaction to try to fake. I would think it looks like self-conscious scum if it weren't for Bell already being known scum.

Eh, shouldn't have bolded her as she's not even in this game. Anyway, I am surprised that you would think this, considering that I remember you from a past game where we played together. And Andante was in it as well.

But my point was that all three of them were in a game five months ago, so why would Greeting seriously think that Bell could ever mistake him for Andante?

It would be different if the three of them had never played together but Bell was specifically asking me - an alt of an account he’s never played with - if I was Andante, which actually makes sense but not so much with Greeting who was in KTANE with both Bell and Andante. I also think it odd that Greeting never brought up that game either. Had Greeting actually said, “hey Bell, how could you possibly think I’m Andante, remember KTHANE?” or words to that effect, I might actually but this but it was only five months ago and he hasn’t played that many games, so it really shouldn’t be that hard for him to recall that game. I also don’t even understand how anyone thought that Bell was referring to anyone other than me because I think one of the first things I posted was that I was an alt, right?

I should probably check the timestamps of when that occurred and Bell initially asked me but I do think it’s fairly obvious he was referring to me anyway.

At any rate, In White Flag I was scum with Gamma who was playing under an alt and I had no idea it was him. He came up with some crazy idea in the scum pt, that I should try to alt out him in the main thread or something but I nixed it. But I would have never known it was him, had he not outed is my point and he wanted to exploit it in order to believably distance us. So yeah, I could definitely see that as a gambit like Ari has suggested.

[Loki Dokie]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

Proof that Greeting can look pretty genuine as scum.

[Loki Dokie]

Had Greeting actually said, “hey Bell, how could you possibly think I’m Andante, remember KTHANE?” or words to that effect, I might actually but this but it was only five months ago and he hasn’t played that many games, so it really shouldn’t be that hard for him to recall that game

He DID say that though. 319, like I quoted.

True but that doesn’t necessarily prove I’m wrong. Does it really sound logical that Greeting would actually think this?

Like I just showed, Gamma wanted me to do this distancing gambit in WF where I out his alt, so people would clearly never think we were SvS.

I nixed it because I didn’t think it would look believable in part because I had no idea the alt was Gamma until he literally told me in our scum PT.

[Loki Dokie]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

Proof that Greeting can look pretty genuine as scum.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=36081

Town!Greeting, just for contrast.

Notice all of the extremely nuanced takes and not a single one look remotely robotic.

Also, Roden is an extremely calculated, methodical scumplayer and I would argue that Dann was likely seriously underestimating his scumgame.

For example, I tend to make way more stupid posts in general as town, because I’m obviously more aware of how I look like as scum and I think it likely that could also be true for Roden as well.

[Loki Dokie]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=36081

Another Greeting towngame.

Like he is really really obvtown here.

[Loki Dokie]

I could post some Roden town and scumgames but what I keep going back to is Roden is pretty decent at playing scum and the fact that he was a consensus scumread for most of the game doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense wrt to that.

If anyone is good at deepwolfing, it’s Roden and he clearly hasn’t been one in this game.

[Loki Dokie]

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I agree zomg, with RR/Vivax for the third.

RadicalRat? How so?

Feels like they're deliberately positioning themselves to align with certain players rather than natural thought process and see if people agree.

And here I was thinking we might get along this game...

In all seriousness though, I don't really understand this accusation. If I were just trying to align myself with certain players, by which I can only assume you mean Loki since we've agreed on things a few times, why did it take so long to convince me on Dann being scum, to the point where even as I started to see it as a possibility it took Vulture showing up and scumclaiming to actually seal the deal? Why do I get nervous about GL instead of trying to rope him into my nefarious fake townbloc?

@RR, how did you get from hard sr Vulture to pretty much assuming they’re now town? I would also like to know that from Vivax as well?

I think one of them is either disregarding their earlier takes entirely or one of them isn’t town and Vivax currently sounds a bit more believable, he was also the cw to scum but both of their reads today and yesterday confuse the everloving fuck out of me.

[Loki Dokie]

I could relate to how Roden plays if I were mafia in the game, I often struggle with having a drive to post enough while I don't have to look into a pool of questions

Roden isn’t you though. I’ve been really lazy but posting little is never scum indicative for Roden, if anything it’s possibly town indicative for him.

Did you ISO him in Terminator? He barely did anything in that.

Basically, Roden can post quite a lot as either alignment but he’s far more likely to post less as town and his games bear this out, I think.

Feel free to prove me wrong.

[Loki Dokie]

For me, it was that and how they jumped on me for not elaborating on my furtive townread. They seemed pretty annoyed at me for that and they were literally the only one who was. And considering how hard I was defending Bell the day before, that kind of pinged me, because I think scum was expecting me to hard defend Bell, even against furtive. Maybe I’m completely tin foiling with this but their reaction just seemed kind of over the top to me, then they still vote out Bell, similar to how they voted out Kitty. Neither read really seemed to have much conviction to it. I just felt that Roden’s posting looked more genuine. Idk, Greeting also seemed weird to me. Roden isn’t doing anything - I want to consider Roden’s scumcase on furtive. Like maybe I’m wrong and it is actually Roden but I just pretty much read everything from Greeting/Vulture aside from the whole thing about mental health as sounding really fake to me. \_0_/

And Bell made it clear he wanted Kitty > Roden as well. Was that because Roden is better at scum or because he was town? I don’t recall if Bell ever said much about Greeting/Vulture or not but Kuti described both Kitty and Greeting similarly.

[Loki Dokie]

I don't think an apology from me is necessary, but I do probably owe everyone an explanation. I won't be going into much details, because I don't really like talking about it, and I don't really want to host an AmA right now, but unfortunately this impacted my play in this game and so I've kinda made it game-relevant.

I have a certain condition, which, when triggered, causes me to react in a way that others would describe (and have described) as a "massive overreaction". I can be erratic and my thoughts can get chaotic. Most of the time I have it under control and can manage the triggers, but sometimes I don't. I don't always know if the chain reaction is happening or not. It does tend to spiral out of control quite easily, especially in stressful situations, is quite impactful and let's say that I kinda drift away.

I should have stopped posting before I got passive aggressive, and I can own up to this mistake. But not to my "massive overreactions".

As for its' relevance to the game, I would say that when I'm mafia I tend to have my emotions more under control than not. I know that I have to watch what I say more, because any inconsistency can be used against me. When I'm town, I just don't really care, I play how I feel like playing atm.

It's, of course, up to you whether you believe this or not. I won't be offended if you don't buy it, but it's just the truth.

I don't really like this kind of stuff, I feel like it blurs the line, like a trust tell.

It's like "sorry for being emotional, I have a condition, it's because I'm always like this as town".

Ok I won't vote you then.

Cue postgame...oh you were mafia. *thinks*........well played I guess.

Know what I mean?

I'm fairly certain this would count as lying about IRL circumstances, which is against site rules.

That said, he didn't say it only happens as Town and never as scum, which definitely would be approaching Trust Tell category, so I'm not saying we report them for flipping red or anything. Just that we should take it as good faith for now.

This is what I mean - if your IRL circumstances are your self-towncase, and it's against site rules to lie about IRL circumstances, it feels like a loophole. Lying is part of the game anyway, I don't agree that you shouldn't be able to lie about IRL stuff. IRL stuff should never be relevant anyway.

This post bothered me when I was reading earlier. Besides the soft accusation that Greeting is faking/lying about having a condition, these posts are trying to frame it like he's using it as an excuse to avoid getting scum read when it seems really clear that he isn't doing that at all. He's explaining his behavior and asking people to keep that in mind when trying to read him, but he never claims that it's town indicative for him when certain behavior patterns get triggered. At most, he says he's more controlled as scum and less self-conscious as town, which are like...

really

basic tells for anyone. He doesn't even say he's guaranteed to act a certain way as either alignment, just that he puts in effort to do so.

Obviously mods get final say but I don't see any loopholes here, Greeting can be telling the truth and still be scum.

I think Roden’s ISO reads pretty townie to me and I’ve wanted to murder Greeting/Vulture since d1 and I haven’t liked about 95% of any incarnation of that slot’s posting. so I really hope this is right and if not, that the last scum isn’t Vivax, cuz then I think we’re fucked.

[Loki Dokie]

VOTE: Vulture

E-1

[Loki Dokie]

[quote="In post 1462
Rat who do you think is scum that's not in the test right now?

Updated answer: Aristeia

I kind of want to see if Radical Rat will really vote for Vulture

it kind of almost feels like RR is in the same position Bell was in on D1

This is bait, and it's coming from scum. Not for scumreading me, but for trying to goad me into specific actions under the threat of scumreading me.

What's the point of bait if you're both not up for decision? Seems like an honest angle out of pure curiosity.
Think you and Ari both villa atp.

[Loki Dokie]

I should have listened to Dann. *kicks self*. Roden is clearly capable of having a shitty scumgame. Using a recent scumgame to push me is proscum in pretty much every game I’ve ever been in where scum has used that to push me.

[Loki Dokie]

gth I think last scum is Ari because the way I was paranoing on Vivax, I think scum!RR would have paired up with him > Ari a strong consensus tr.

I was seriously paranoid that scum!Vivax drags me into the test with the way he kept on massively shading and positioning me as Roden’s buddy.

Ari has tried hard to drive two wrong votes, first on Dann, then Vulture.

And Kitty didn’t put up any fight.

Roden also quoted a post by RR as his reasoning for voting Dann, iirc?

[Loki Dokie]

Wait, what am I responding to?

Well, so far it seems like GL and Loki are leaning towards Dannflor, and Fire/Vivax/RR are leaning towards kuti plz.

Anyway, follow up to this is I'd know who I'd rather vote with, regardless of who we're actually voting.

This actually does concern me as well. Unfortunately, I have concerns on both sides, and those concerns aren't likely to be alleviated until I get to see how Dann and kuti flip.

What are your concerns and who with?

Vivax is the obvious one. It worries me greatly that my top scumread from D1 has arrived at the same conclusion, but with so many scum it seems a bit farfetched that BOTH leading wagons were on scum. Plus if kuti IS scum it actually makes Vivax look significantly better.

And then I also have a growing paranoia that GL could be deepwolfing here, but that isn't really substantiated by anything yet. I just find it very strange that no one has really expressed suspicion on him. Like, you'd think at least one or two scum would be trying to sow doubt on a true obvtown. And then if Dannflor flips green.... Not a great look.


But without flips I can't really draw proper conclusions here. Kitty's flip is... Spectacularly uninformative, which is why there may have been merit to scum sacrificing him. This pair is going to be much juicier though

There've been a few slots that haven't had much suspicion on them, not just GL. Why him in particular?

Roden trying to make us think RR is his buddy? maybe?

[Loki Dokie]

VOTE: RadicalRat

Not gonna miss the chance at 100% EoD accuracy

Like you were pushing me as a Roden buddy and had both of them as town?

What makes you this confident?

Why does scum!RR pick Ari? The converse oth is pretty obvious.

[Loki Dokie]

These are interesting picks, a bit more challenging than the last, but at first glance it's not hard to see who posts more spontaneously

And had I been thrown into the test, you probably would have voted me and lost us the game, amirite?

Like that fact that you seriously thought I could ever be aligned with Roden. makes me doubt your 100% reads accuracy”, since that take of your was so beyond ridiculous.

[Loki Dokie]

If you had to pick someone who led a life described similarly as Tantalos' former life nowadays, who would it be?

????

I have no clue who that is.

[Loki Dokie]

If you had to pick someone who led a life described similarly as Tantalos' former life nowadays, who would it be?

????

I have no clue who that is.

The prototypical greedy king with superiority complex

Don’t really understand the point of this but probably any number of entitlled celebs. I guess.

[Loki Dokie]

This is a post where I pretend to be triggered
just to make you happy

???

You were also wrong on Bell/furtive, so I’m concerned that your read could be influenced by that as well?

Also. why was Bell first on Kitty if he was not the intended bus?

I’m going to look up some Ari scumgames because in PYP her reads were spot on. She pretty much caught the entire scumteam.

Of course Vulture was really really scummy but then RR didn’t actually put a vote on Roden, so he didn’t actually dl anything to change the vote.

I think his only vote was on Dann, right?

[Loki Dokie]

Yeah maybe. RR never voting anyone but Dann doesn’t look great. I was right about Roden only voting Kuti after GL put him to e-1.

It makes sense why scum paired him with Vulture now.

[Loki Dokie]

Gun to head, I'd pick Kitty over Bell, but I still would much rather Vivax.

Example of boxed in thinking

Okay then, explain to me how you tr RR > me then? My posting was the complete antithesis of anything even remotely resembling “boxed in”.

That sheer level of nuanced posting is something I greatly struggle with doing as scum.

Like he was on your wagon but I unvoted you, so you tr him > me was just beyond whack.

[Loki Dokie]

Apologies @RR for misgendering you.

[Loki Dokie]

Gun to head, I'd pick Kitty over Bell, but I still would much rather Vivax.

Example of boxed in thinking

Okay then, explain to me how you tr RR > me then? My posting was the complete antithesis of anything even remotely resembling “boxed in”.

That sheer level of nuanced posting is something I greatly struggle with doing as scum.

Like he was on your wagon but I unvoted you, so you tr him > me was just beyond whack.

I don‘t disagree, but you are the type of player worthy of tinfoil that‘s not hard to see.
As such a player I might push you just because of that. Or because I like chaos in general and am not afraid of looking wrong as town (sometimes more, sometimes less)

Also cause you are effective at pushing counternarratives. When scum fools me it‘s cause they make me overthink or make the game simply unattractive to try in

You vastly overestimate my scumgame. I only wish I was that capable of mimicking that as scum. Perhaps in 5 years, maybe?

[Loki Dokie]

I have to look it up but I also think that both RR and Roden were paranoiaing on GL. Also. I guess RR’s reaction to Ari push was objectively pretty bad. God only knows why you were tr them for that.

[Loki Dokie]

vote count 4.final

with 6 votes in play, it takes 4 to make a decision. day 4 ends in (expired on 2022-08-29 23:15:00).

yeet

Vulture [4]:

GuiltyLion, Aristeia, Loki Dokie, fireisredsir

[HAMMER]

Roden [1]:

Vivax

not voting [1]:

Radical Rat

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

vote count 1.final

with 13 votes in play, it took 7 to make a decision. day 1 ended.

yeet

KittyTacky [7]:

Bell

, Aristeia,

GuiltyLion, Dannflor, Vulture, Vivax, fireisredsir

[HAMMER]

Vivax [5]:

Radical Rat,

furtiveglance

,

kutiplz, KittyTacky, Roden

not voting [1]:

Loki Dokie

mod notes

~ i was literally about to sleep, why do you do this to me

[Loki Dokie]

So. it seems that 3/5 scum were on Vivax with one - Bell - on Kitty. So I recall Vivax mentioning how important it would be for scum to get that first point.

RR was also pushing Vivax wagon pretty hard, so I’m thinking scum probably was hoping for a Vivax miselim. Also Roden flipping scum means his Kitty always fights thing was obviously bs.

[Loki Dokie]

I'm just struggling to figure out how to participate without inducing WIFOM by just existing

I feel like I'm in a weird spot where anything I say is going to get interpreted as being way more layered than it actually is. Some of the votes on Dann were made because of a pre-flipped read on me and looking too deeply into my town read on him. Idk, I don't want to ruin the game by centralizing who to vote for over things that are in my ISO.

So your argument is that you waited to vote Kuti once GL had already put him to e-1 not to wifom scum? Your vote did absolutely nothing to help Dann atp because had I voted Kuti, it would have been a tie and the earlier tie always wins, so I think for that to have really made any sense, you wouldn’t have waited until it was extremely likely too late to save him.

Nah and that's not even close to what I said.

I'm just pissed and annoyed that I'm the fucking fall guy every time a single vote goes wrong. And I'm even more annoyed that I won't be able to defend myself the moment I inevitably get put up. Like at this point I don't see the point in trying because no one ever listens to me.

Rodon AtEing is nia. Pot.meet.Kettle. lololol. Still pissed, however sadder but wiser now.

[Loki Dokie]

I...don't know why I'm alive. That was one of my worst Day 1's in awhile, I expected to get thrown in the pit for an easy scum point.

I understand Kitty flipped red but I genuinely don't know why he got flipped at all. Every time I've seem scum!Kitty, he fights hard to live and gets hard protected by his allies, with all the pressure on him and no real defense I thought he was just town LHF again.

There's no way he wasn't bussed, because I still don't think he did anything particularly scummy for people to want him out as badly as everyone did

.

This strongly points to Ari!town, I think.

[Loki Dokie]

Town ish vibes:

GuiltyLion: my first tr of the game, very much like they were in our previous games, just overall a gut and soul read
Loki: feeling good about this slot, their solving is logical (like how they are doing it in the thread), I like the effort to look into Vivax old game. In p#602
Greetign: weakest of the three, I feel like her emotions have been genuine. Dunno how to feel about the buddying
Kitty: weakest of them all, a town lean, their tone is genuine and maybe im weak to it.

Scummy vibes:
Dann: I feel like they kinda fell off since the beginning (I know I'm being a hypocrite)
Ari: I dunno how to feel about them trying to buddy everyone and her post have been agenda driven
Vivax: his tone and what not is not what I'm used to. He doesn't feel towny because he's missing his trademark tinfoil. I am sus of him
VOTE: vivax

Look who’s missing from this list: Bell, Roden and RR. Is that a total coincidence?