Mini Normal 2279: VGSR - GAME OVER

[Ausuka]

Why do you think it's important to ask

[Ausuka]

Most things posted in mafia games are not "important" or strictly necessary. This includes these questions you are asking. I explained it because I wanted to and it felt relevant.

[Ausuka]

it makes sense to me that an informed Ausuka would call my reads bad b/c she knew they were bad.

where did i even do this

[Ausuka]

Actually, I was wondering why I wasn't killed tonight and

furtiveglance

was. My guess is that there are no more Mafia Goons in this game and so my role isn't a threat to the mafia anymore. I will still continue checking people in case I am wrong though. I'm planning on targeting

hoppip

on Night 2.

Still though, it's kinda weird that they would sacrifice

Crescent

like this. I made it clear that I would be likely targeting her tonight (1062). If she hadn't been vigged, I would have announced my guilty and she would be gone on Day 2 anyway.

My guess is that there are other mafia goons in the game

Seems possible they were hoping to miseliminate you, in a game I just modded scum left a town roleblocker alive in the hopes they would get miseliminated even though a scum was already dead

[Ausuka]

VOTE: hoppip

I like this!

[Ausuka]

i voted for a townie on day 1

who you also voted for

jesus christ

[Ausuka]

sorry but i really think the idea that all my reads are automatically wrong and i have to flip on everything because i voted wrong d1 is absolute nonsense

[Ausuka]

like, of course hoppip could be town. i never said hutmeil was definitely scum and i don't think hoppip is definitely scum

my mindset of who is acting towny or scummy isn't suddenly going to flip overnight. i have said why i suspected hoppip's posts in the past, i do not like that they have disappeared and would like them to post stuff. if you think hoppip is town tell me why. saying "oh you were wrong once so you're not allowed to vote your scumreads" does not fel constructive at all

it would be one thing if I thought you were scum here bullshitting but I think you are being genuine

[Ausuka]

well i mean, unless you're informed i don't really see how you can say i did "nothing but vote town"

do you know hoppip is town?

[Ausuka]

I mean I don't get your point then? If I thought Hutmeil being town made hoppip townier that would be one thing but I don't

[Ausuka]

Like I am not just tunneling hoppip and assuming everything they do is scummy. They are not doing anything. They have not posted in this thread in the last 6 days. There isn't much to rethink frankly.

[Ausuka]

I didn't say nothing changed for me. I said it's not going to flip overnight. Obviously I rethought my reads to some degree after the flips. That does not mean I am going to come to a drastically different conclusion on a player like hoppip.

[Ausuka]

The Crescent scumslip points mostly to Greeting being town. That is the main conclusion I have come to and I have talked about that. I am also less suspicious of BBT than I was yesterday.

Overall I don't have massively strong reads in this gamestate - I wanted to push Eiralox on his Mohab read but I do not think his posting today is scummy. I want to push hoppip because I think his posts have been fairly scummy and I want him to be forced to do stuff. I also want Gandhi to stop talking about page 9, but I think he's somewhat less scummy than hoppip is.

[Ausuka]

so like the Cresent scum flip changed absolutely nothing for you? your scumreads are still hoppip and ???

If you think the crescent flip changed nothing for me why would I ever have voted for eiralox

[Ausuka]

I think you are starting with the assumption I am scum and then going from there so I will leave this for now.

Gandhi, if you come back, I think you should definitely comment on more recent events. I don't care if that means your notes are less detailed or in depth - I think three lines which are up to date are worth more than three paragraph of content which only takes into account a fraction of the information we have. I think from what other people have said almost everyone agrees with me, so if you're town this is worth doing to make yourself readable.

[Ausuka]

The one thing I have to say about Ausuka at the moment is that I scrutinized Hoppip my first post of the game, and have continued to do so. It feels a bit disingenuous to say he's the only one to look at the guy.

I think this post looks kind of bad for hoppip? I feel like the vibes on this post are "I am not aligned with hoppip and I want you to know about it"

[Ausuka]

I think Nero is just confbiased tbh

[Ausuka]

i have townread you since you replaced in

i have townread inutile since, like, page 5

[Ausuka]

lol

[Ausuka]

What a massive increase in player quality. VOTE: Ausuka

You were scumreading Gandhi and seem to be townreading Klick extremely easily. I really do not think his post was that impressive.

Also, do you really think Crescent's interactions with Greeting are s/s because I'm inclined to believe the opposite

[Ausuka]

I think that Ausuka ignoring my analysis in 1255 is scummy.

It's my low intellectual curiosity obviously

[Ausuka]

oh I guess we did say her name 3 times

that's right I'm a ghost. be scared

[Ausuka]

What a massive increase in player quality. VOTE: Ausuka

You were scumreading Gandhi and seem to be townreading Klick extremely easily. I really do not think his post was that impressive.

Also, do you really think Crescent's interactions with Greeting are s/s because I'm inclined to believe the opposite

Nah it's too late, you dead now fool

[Ausuka]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

I think this is perfectly congruent with Klick's post so far. There wasn't anything really towny in there. I'd even be inclined to call it scummy!

[Ausuka]

For example being like "furtive town" seems fake to me because I think town Klick reads the flips and does not bother saying that

[Ausuka]

This is Ausuka's comedy hour.

are you scum lol

[Ausuka]

oh wow

in that game Klick made his catch-up in multiple posts

in this game he made one big post instead

obviously he must be town

[Ausuka]

not really? i was townleaning him slightly earlier but like he hasn't really done anything all game frankly

[Ausuka]

I don't think I am moving my vote elsewhere today. I mean, it's not impossible, but there isn't a lim I would want more than

Eiralox

.

I feel like you aren't making any attempts to be flexible and work with your team.

Eiralox

was a leading wagon until a few posts before yours. If that's not good town teamwork on eliminating a shady slot, I don't know what is.

Maybe you should reconsider why you're not on that wagon. The case on

Eiralox

is out there with nothing more to add.

Your case on Eiralox is horrendous vote Ausuka

I feel like you aren't making any attempts to be flexible and work with your team.

[Ausuka]

well to be fair you've been very successful at being flexible! too successful, maybe.

the work with your team bit I'm less sure about, but depends on your team

[Ausuka]

weren't u town reading gandhi anyways?

not really? i was townleaning him slightly earlier but like he hasn't really done anything all game frankly

It's difficult to tell the truth considering the nonexistent read progression Ausuka has on almost every single slot, including Gandhi.

wow you've sure dived into this opinion quick in the last, like, 15 minutes. before which you were like hard townreading me I might add

[Ausuka]

like what the fuck am I supposed to say about Gandhi LMAO the guy just did not do anything.

This is not a good faith push from Frog here.

[Ausuka]

Oh I agree his ISO is bad and I may be in a trap of "It looks so bad how could scum be this bad".

His vote on Greeting feels increasingly putrid looking at this vote spread though. He jumps third on Greeting while posting random posts from 500 posts ago, but doesn't actually call him scum. 200 posts later he's still there, and he really hasn't attempted content since.

Yes and hutmeil must die! And Ausuka is Town!

This looks like frog having fun with his scumbuddy

[Ausuka]

You sure flopped hard on that "ausuka is town" read as soon as I became a viable miselimination huh

[Ausuka]

do we have much experience together? I do not remember playing with you all that often and i know i have never had a scum game that looks even remotely close to this

[Ausuka]

I mean I think you were in Datisi's pick your power and replaced out d1? Other than that I don't really remember anything

As scum I usually have a more difficult time like actually producing content? Like the pattern was usually that I tried to produce content but ended up being fairly lurky and people would catch on. To be fair I haven't rolled scum in a long time - I bring up my meta not because I think it's especially convincing but because I think it would be very difficult for anyone to have a meta scumread on me here.

[Ausuka]

BBT idk what ur doing this game but you're talking sense and I like that

(Also for anyone who is similarly semi familiar with BBT as I am I checked and he does know how to scum without lurking)

[Ausuka]

I think Gandhi replacing out is probably NAI because he couldn't keep up

[Ausuka]

I guess it's slightly +scum in that replacements are slightly more likely to be scum than rand in general, but it doesn't do anything for me

[Ausuka]

More specifically you're not doing much and I expected the opposite from you and not sure why

[Ausuka]

I feel like frog's current strategy is basically just "suck up to Nero and Klick as hard as possible"

[Ausuka]

I mean, yeah? One of the scummier players in the game right now at least

[Ausuka]

He has been hard townreading me the whole game

He instantly does a massive 180, insists I'm scum , as soon as it looks like I could viably be eliminated

Can't explain why except for stuff like "her progression on Gandhi is nonexistent" which, may I remind you, that's a slot which has done literally jackshit all game frankly

[Ausuka]

Who are all these people hard townreading me (specifically on day 2)

[Ausuka]

Off the top of my head Eiralox and Mapuche aren't scumreading me but definitely are not hard townreading me

Similarly greeting hasn't expressed their suspicion butbi feel like hard townread is a major stretch

Delta maybe, BBT is the only one I think is fair enough

[Ausuka]

Ausuka, can you give me a run down of your scum reads?

hi am busy irl but the quick rundown is;

i don't like frog's switch around on me, it feels opportunistic and i don't think the reasoning is genuine. like, they were hard townreading me all game and instantly came up with a list of anti ausuka talking points and pushed the read hard - it doesn't feel like a genuine progression. nor do i feel like they would really switch their read that hard because klick vaguely said i might be scum when they had only read the early game, or because i don't have much progression on nuclear gandhi slot which literally lurked through the entire game.

hoppip has done nothing and i don't like what they have done + i think their associatives with crescent are bad, for example crescent really wanted us to know how much they wanted to pressure hoppip and i think that is s/s indicative

[Ausuka]

He has been hard townreading me the whole game

He instantly does a massive 180, insists I'm scum , as soon as it looks like I could viably be eliminated

Can't explain why except for stuff like "her progression on Gandhi is nonexistent" which, may I remind you, that's a slot which has done literally jackshit all game frankly

Being inconsistent is extremely overrated as a scumtell actually. I used to think that players who act erratic are scummy, but some players like to sort of push buttons and see which one works and which one doesn't. They form their reads like that.

i mean frog just being town pushing my buttons isn't impossible i guess but that seems like a 'play stupid games win stupid prizes' situation

[Ausuka]

So rude

[Ausuka]

I mean can't we just not elim anyone until we get a new hoppip

I'm fine just waiting for that, honestly

[Ausuka]

I think limming Greeting is a bad idea

Not because he's an unccd PR, that probably makes him more likely to be scum in itself, but he feels like town and I think what he claimed specifically is towny

[Ausuka]

I mean eliminating an uncc'd pr can be a good idea I think

I don't think it is, in this case specifically

[Ausuka]

greeting is actually a town simple disloyal bulletproof

[Ausuka]

bulletproof cop
2-shot vigilante
jailkeeper
vt x 7

strongman
universal backup
ascetic

this feels balanced-ish and sort of fun if gimmicky but haven't thought about it too hard

[Ausuka]

that would be impressive since klick wasn't in the game on night 1

[Ausuka]

although now that i think about it

@klick, in frog images your scumteam left kittytacky alive in a similar situation - a suspected but powerful PR claim

why would you expect this game to be different to that

[Ausuka]

i mean, i agree they probably did do that - i don't think the kill could have been made with the intent for klick to frame greeting, although i guess it's possible klick is just making the best of what arguments he has available. i'm sure scum would love to not have to use a kill on greeting

i vaguely like most of klick's actual content since replacing in but obviously would still like to see more

[Ausuka]

I mean that is definitely a good point and it's possible greeting is, like, an informed mafioso or something weird like that?

I didn't get the vibe crescent and greeting were partners but maybe I need to review

[Ausuka]

For some reason I was thinking that scum greeting wouldn't lock himself to targeting Crescent but like

d1 scum had no reason to think anything would happen to crescent so it'd make sense for him to do that actually

hmm

still wanna hear from nk15 but this is making me reconsider

[Ausuka]

but if nk15 flips scum then im closer to my wincon and if nk15 is town then I A.) Don't have to read an nk15 post and B.) I get to make fun of Ausuka

Frankly I am not going to feel bad because I voted a lurker slot in which two occupants have made exactly 0 posts for an entire day phase regardless of the flip lole

[Ausuka]

UNVOTE:

probably hammered i know but if it isnt i dont sign off on this

vig maybe dont shoot eiralox

considering greeting/mapuche right now ? will have to reread

[Ausuka]

if it is that team i have been SO HORRIBLE this game but like whatever at least I tried

i think nk15 maybe just claims pr here as scum tbh

[Ausuka]

well i'm clowning myself either way but why play mafia if u dont wanna get clowned

[Ausuka]

bbt is an absolute ??? for me

i was scumleaning him yesterday and think i moved him back to neutralish after the crescent flip?

needs looking at, but i know he can play as scum so i don't think this is scum indicative for him, he probably just never got into the game?

although maybe if he was scum with juice and mohab he'd just give up out of resentment i suppose

[Ausuka]

I think it's frog

[Ausuka]

His associatives with hoppip are pretty null

He has him as a slight scumlean for all of d1 and then decides he's town d2 and tries to eliminate literally anyone else

Incidentally, d2 is also when eliminating a scum member starts putting town in a really bad position mechanically speaking.

I have also decided I was wrong to suspect Mapuche and am not touching them today.

[Ausuka]

I meant to say pretty bad not pretty null

[Ausuka]

frankly if I'm scum here I put myself in a position where I probably lose mechanically so like idk yeah

[Ausuka]

I mean I would have pushed hoppip more if literally anyone else had engaged with that apart from Crescent who was scum trying to distance herself

[Ausuka]

Like this wasn't a situation where I just shaded hoppip while going after hut, I made hoppip my target for a long while and no one bit on it

[Ausuka]

Like that comes out a bit harsher than I mean it and it's unreasonable to expect people to catch every scum d1 or something, people had better reads than me on other slots

But I very much was pushing hoppip on d1 and it feels unfair to overlook that

[Ausuka]

I agree I don't think it's Mapuche here

I guess it can be BBT? Don't super feel it but like I can see why he would lack motivation for most of the game with this team

[Ausuka]

Main reason I'd like for you to vote though is because you've become a focal point in the game, yet I don't really know who you scum read. You're butting heads with other players but it doesn't really

mean

anything, you know? Less defense, more offense, please.

so u basically come in to sorta shade inutile then vote juice, the wagon with most traction? any other pertinent thoughts on the game state?

Shade? I town read inutile. Sounds like you haven't been reading my posts.

Thoughts on the game state is that people keep pushing and casing and arguing with people without actually voting them, but have no problem voting other players with very little justification, especially if they can piggy back off another player's momentum.

Main reason I'd like for you to vote though is because you've become a focal point in the game, yet I don't really know who you scum read. You're butting heads with other players but it doesn't really

mean

anything, you know? Less defense, more offense, please.

see the thing is some people don't always vote without due reason. sometimes i'm exactly like that. so you tunneling towards inutile on this is either a bad play or a "push for the sake of a push."


I really haven't seen any game-relevant, alignment-relevant content come from you thus far.

There is a problem if you're five days into a game and have argued with several people, but don't have a good reason to vote someone yet. Besides, it's day 1, the whole point is to pressure people off of what little info you have and see what happens. Unless scum busses or plays very poorly, town tends to get yeeted first, so I'm not gonna stress over "good" or "bad" pushes. As long as we can get people to show their hand and make them readable for future days, I'm totally fine with an imperfect day 1 that sets us up to catch scum the following days.

Do you actually believe my ISO contains zero game and alignment relevant content? Serious question.

egh alea jecta est

VOTE: hoppip


@gandhi can shift back to u on a needle's drop

This a pretty bad vote, it seems pretty obvious you only voted me because Ausuka opened the door for you. Or maybe you're just hiding behind her as cover? Either way, very slimy.

by game related i don't mean asking people to do something but proactively hunting yourself. asking others to hunt while you aren't doing much hunting yourself is by default not a game-advancing strategy in my mind. I can bear lurkers. what always pings me tho is lurkey slots accusing other slots of being lurkey. if those slots vote there.... well then my ping becomes a bell tolling in my skull.

cos i get inutile seemed very, very very scummy the first few pages. I shared that vibe. But through later actions inutile remains in my townlocks. So would scum hopip focus like this on inutile? not a factor in my analyses. In general, in wording, by votes, I just have no idea what inutile is thinking or doing. And it feels.... did Ausuka say slimy? Sorta?


well......

Looks like another misrep to me. Two in fact.

Eira, I'll give you another chance, but you only get one! Go into my ISO and quote where I said I scum read inutile. Next, show proof that I haven't been scum hunting. Do both and I'll role claim right now! Otherwise you're gonna have to work extra hard to convince me that you're town after telling blatant lies~

This is very rarely partnered I think.

[Ausuka]

I have been suspicious of Klick slot but I think parking his vote on hoppip after replacing the way he did shows a lack of care towards hoppip slot which I don't think I would expect coming from its partner?

[Ausuka]

PoE? That's a quick 360 on me

[Ausuka]

for that matter i want to know why i'd be "most likely to make the greeting kill." please explain what is so special about night killing a cop that only i could have come up with that brilliant idea. is nightkilling a cop such a revolutionary concept that only the legendary deltawave could have come up with it? i know that pro strats like nightkilling a claimed cop are rare but do you think i'm really that uniquely brilliant to come up with a platinum level strategy like that? ok, i know that it's such a wild scum plan. like who would think of nightkilling a cop, it just can't cross anyone's mind so i understand why you see it as so unusual. i just want to know what about me screams that i could come up with such a never-before-seen move. is it just that i'm so smart?

I mean she isn't wrong about this!

[Ausuka]

She is saying that anyone could kill the claimed cop and I agree with this assessment, anyone could in fact commit a nightkill on the claimed cop?

[Ausuka]

Am I really stupid for believing that? Yes, whatever, maybe you're going to say something about how it's weird they didn't kill Greeting N1 and did the next night - maybe they overestimated the suspicion that would be on him the next day. Whatever. The fact is I would find it much more unusual for a claimed cop not to die n2 and I think Delta is very correct about this point and am unsure why anyone would think otherwise.

[Ausuka]

I don't believe that greeting's role.is necessarily useless! I also think you shaded Greeting plenty yesterday so I have no fucking idea what you're talking about frankly

[Ausuka]

And why would you make that assumption?

[Ausuka]

With three goons disloyal simple cop is just a cop that's a bit weaker than a cop because it can't clear people.

With two goons it's a role that provides a lot of swing dependent on which mafia you target which to me is just less fun and neat. There is a somewhat similar dynamic with jailkeeper and tracker and such like but I think since mafia have to choose who will perform the kill that's significantly better.

And that doesn't mean it can't be what happened in this game! Maybe the last mafia isn't a goon. I just think it's a strange assumption to make.

[Ausuka]

Greeting's only read on d2 was eiralox scum and I don't think there is a lot there beyond that

If anything eiralox would be the one I'd expect you to call out for making the kill but I don't think it's eiralox.

[Ausuka]

I mean
1) I do not think normals are designed to meet expectations and sometimes mods design setups that violate those expectations just for the sake of doing so

2) even if that were the case I do not think a setup with 3 goons really violates expectations?? I think that's rather normal?

[Ausuka]

I'm also tempted to be fair

I think frog is maybe 40% to flip scum?

If this is a townflip I guess I'll have another look at Delta overnight

[Ausuka]

I mean call it lazy but I have reviewed your play and I think you absolutely have to die before endgame for that absolutely abhorrent d2 so, shrug

[Ausuka]

I mean it's less about the quality of your play and more that you were desperately trying to wagon anyone but the scum who was hard lurking and basically indefensible (but you knew if they got eliminated you would be at risk mechanically)

[Ausuka]

ima hammer unless ausuka has anymore words

Shrug, I don't have any problem with ending the day here, I've said what I need to say

[Ausuka]

I mean it's less about the quality of your play and more that you were desperately trying to wagon anyone but the scum who was hard lurking and basically indefensible (but you knew if they got eliminated you would be at risk mechanically)

I think that you just don't understand what Greeting was trying to explain about my play not being AI. I think it's a naive thing. Hopefully you will learn after my flip IMO.

I don't think it confirms you are scum and I know town can play like you did.

However it is almost exactly what scum are motivated or forced to do in that situation and I think you being one of our eliminations is almost mandatory. While I am not the best mafia player I think almost anyone would agree with me on this.

[Ausuka]

Specifically, if there is exactly a Jailkeeper in this game, I'd love to hear about it.

Hi I'm a jailkeeper and I jailkept delta

Specifically simple jailkeeper

VOTE: delta

[Ausuka]

I think this setup works better with all goons and given no one died + we know vig and cop exist, I'm inclined to believe there is no 4th pr which did this

Don't think scum tried to kill delta either

[Ausuka]

Oops sorry for prolonging the game I guess

Once I said "I'll have a look at Delta overnight" I had to go through with it in case I dief

[Ausuka]

Don't think there's any issue with the selfhammer

I think this setup was uh maybe slightly townsided? But not that bad in terms of balance. I agree the setup isn't great though just in terms of the simple roles adding wifom is meant to counterbalance town power but that's unreliable

[Ausuka]

Presumably just these three?

[Ausuka]

Don't forget that the cop can't clear anyone

[Ausuka]

Gg

[Ausuka]

Gandhi who did you try to target??

[Ausuka]

That is actually really tragic because things would have gone soooo differently if Crescent had lived in Greeting's place

I would say I'm not counting this as a win but I don't keep stats anyway

[Ausuka]

Yeah sorry scum you got totally screwed there

[Ausuka]

LMAO this game was actually a comedy

[Ausuka]

Delta is not going to be happy when she reads this

[Ausuka]

Lmao were you hoppip

[Ausuka]

I'm going to be completely honest. I'm counting this as a win because I need it. I can't go 1/12. I can't!

Wow that's statistically improbable

[Ausuka]

Yeah it's not really a win I think

I think town would have won anyway more likely but there's DEFINITELY a big chance mafia win as well

[Ausuka]

hi, are the private topics for this gonna be released?

[Ausuka]

it's ok!