which should ring bells for you when everyone and their cat wants to lynch her here
not true at all this lynch was WAY harder than it should have been
almost everyone not on the wagon was hard opposed to it
i think the only possible extra vte we could have got is wagon
everyone else was intent on disabling this lynch
In post 2888, Jingle wrote:I honestly don't see Enter/Stina scumteam. The Chainsaw is too obvious. Could be either or neither, but not both.
Hebichan is another slot I’m good at reading and I see no reason to scumread that slot. Mastina is just that good at fooling people. ISO her in RC uPick game, if you don’t believe me. Nearly everyone had her at obvtown - until she flipped.
Bad example.
Why? Everyone obvtownread her, except for her scumpal Nico, that is.
Nope?
JJh and I spent literally PAGES of mechanical discussion preventing her lynch from the moment I stepped into the game. It was mechanically optimal not to lynch her, and there were still a bunch of people (Fire, Varsoon, Invis, Mememen etc) who wanted to lynch her. Even the people who were townreading her were mostly doing so because the play of clearing a bunch of townies just didn't make sense for scum to do. I literally derailed wagons on her on consecutive days. She was not "obvtown" by any stretch of the imagination.
Also, go ahead and list the people who opposed the mastina lynch. I'll help. Jingle, Wisdom, Sheep. Yup, a third of the 'resistance' to the lynch was the hammer.
Enter kind of did at the end when I'd already made it clear I was proanything but a townread and was arguing against the lynch largely to point out that the stances of the people on the wagon itself were garbage. Brie and Wagon were both outright support. Koki wants the day to end by any means necessary. BNL and vax were on a better wagon, but neither seemed especially against the mastina lynch. Vonflare and light haven't done shit in days, and thus can't be said to have been against the wagon that popped up since they've been disconnected. And PB... Has done literally fuckall since I stopped pushing that read.
Compared to the Ausuka lynch, the sheep lynch, the PB lynch, the Dannflor lynch (that had the passive support of pretty much everyone), the mastina lynch was easy as fuck to get through.
This, btw, is the second vote on Mastina. 5 days ago. A sixth of the day phase. Prior to that, X was voting her but not attempting to push the wagon because he didn't think it would go anywhere. Dannflor replaced in, his wagon fell apart, and mastina died. In quick succession. I was the ONLY real pushback to the lynch. Wisdom was largely absent while it happened. Sheep was largely absent while it happened. And even I wasn't townreading her, just aware that the cases on her were completely NAI. Which... is something I pointed out. Many times.
It's rather important that we keep what actually happened in mind here, because there's a lot of shit floating around that just isn't true.
In post 3140, Jingle wrote:Also, I have a feeling I'm gonna die tonight because obvtown AF and not letting narratives about the game stand, so all I have to say is look back at profii and CT. They were probably killed for reads accuracy.
So, yes, you did hammer Mastina despite believing she wasn't the best lynch.
However, my problem with comparing this game to that one is that despite not wanting to try hard on your (correct) reads, you still didn't let "narratives about the game stand." Like, despite your apathy you did end up being a NK and I don't see your play drawing one here.
I would expect the same Jingle from that game to push me more? Like I understand you aren't going to put up a fight against PR or Shoshin or whatever, but in no deadlines you still constantly stated how I was prob scum AND said the Mastina lynch was stupid with many bad votes. Here, you aren't doing as much of that analysis. Maybe you're just
more
apathetic here, but in that game you didn't really truly "give up" until you had to hammer.
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:41 am
by Shoshin
I can't answer without you answering my question first, Reiuji.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78228 - Tryhard in doomed slot https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78023 - Tryhardish, but I kinda just gave up on pushing scum reads and hammered a townread for game tempo reasons https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=77903 - Tryhard, also fuck playing against shoshin, nsg and relly in a nightless https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77055 - Mixed bag. Tryhard mechanically, but I straight up didn't give a shit as soon as the game looked over. (Read: mechanical 1v1 with the last scum). Proven by the fact that I didn't even double check who submitted an action when and thought I was in an additional 1v1 with Beavis and Butthead avvy guy whose name escapes me. Starts with a V I think. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76181 - Another mixed bag. I was supposed to low effort this game, but I spent a lot of time fighting RC. And then got shot when I paid enough attention to actually be useful the night after investigative RC got shot. This is half of the reason I didn't /in for this when asked by Ali, btw, although this game tells me me and RC can not be dicks to each other, so I'm not going to avoid games with him. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=74422 - I tryharded the shit out of D1. And led three consecutive town lynches. Unfortunately, I was town. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=76042 - I tryharded the shit out of this whole game and would have won if Ank didn't replace lynchbait and RNG didn't hate me.
There, every game Jingle played in on the first page of my bookmarks tab.
Thank you, I need to go eat but I'll look at some of these later this afternoon
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:43 am
by mcqueen
been sick the past few days:/
I’ll catch up by tomorrow hopefully
Sorry guys
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:43 am
by Jingle
In post 1511, Jingle wrote:Arbitrary Townreads for at least another day:
Reiuji Utsuho
Karmeleon
mcqueen
Actual Townreads:
Prince of Renais
Alisae
Extrapolated Eagle
Still fairly accurate. I feel like I might be paranoia-ing about Dann, but he's definitely not townbin.
These should be changing quite dramatically after the last few pages. Please update.
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:48 am
by Reiuji Utsuho
In post 2002, Shoshin wrote:I can't answer without you answering my question first, Reiuji.
Ok I am the pinnacle of towniness in this game, more than this random silly guy with a worst pair of sunglesses I have ever seen in my life, and I am
absolutely appalled
that you doubted that for even a split second, if you are town.
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:51 am
by Jingle
I honestly don't think it should. I'm waffling a bit on Vedith, and I feel like I should have a strong read there, but I don't. I'd vaguely put him as town atm, but in the end it's not really strong enough to matter.
I've explained why I think you could go both ways.
Lycan, Clem and GE have done fuckall.
Buj is another that I feel like I should have a read on, but don't.
None of my townreads have weakened.
If you feel I need to change the list, Dann would be in a category somewhere between scum and fuckit, and Vedith would be in a category somewhere between fuckit and town.
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:52 am
by Dannflor
What are the chances everyone who has posted in the last several pages is town imploding on itself and scum have lurked out of the game/are hoping we destroy ourselves?
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:54 am
by Reiuji Utsuho
In post 2013, Dannflor wrote:What are the chances everyone who has posted in the last several pages is town imploding on itself and scum have lurked out of the game/are hoping we destroy ourselves?
We can't tell until this clusterfuck contiunes for at least 15 pages with the rate of 3 pages/hour minimum.
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:55 am
by Shoshin
Why is Dann scum, Jingle?
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:55 am
by Dannflor
If Shoshin is town --- no reason for scum to interfere, it looks like it'll be a quick lynch, either get on the wagon or lurk till it goes through
If Shoshin is scum --- eh it gets more complicated here probably, scum might try to do a variety of things out of desperation
In post 1464, Jingle wrote:Full disclosure, I have no idea why we lynched grapes.
Even before I caught up with the game, I would have lynched him just for #1353.
In this post he:
- Forces an awkward transition from Buj to Eagle
- Gives unsubstantiated town reads to three of the people pushing him
- Ignores the
actual
worst vote on his own wagon
#####
Side note: If anyone still didn't think Jingle was obv town the above post should convince you. Scum would be milking all the town cred they could get out of being on their buddy's wagon, especially considering this game has 3 scum and one of them dropped Day 1. Scums are in a bad spot. If a scum bussed here (which I think is possible), they did so to set themselves up in a better position later. Jingle is actively working against this scum win condition.
Scum post.
In post 1542, Jingle wrote:Your catchup and the subsequent townreads mirrors No deadlines almost perfectly.
You scumcased the dead player, did not vote the dead player, and then said that scum on the dead player's wagon would probably grab for towncred by explaining their reads as opposed to sheeping.
You handwaved the bit about DDL by saying Vedith was doing the same thing then deciding Vedith was town after Karm weighed in without actually addressing the bit about DDL.
You seem overconcerned about how people see you.
A hint: engaging me over you isn't a good way to get me to change my read. Engaging me over not you might work though.
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:59 am
by Jingle
Basically, I disagree with townreading a player who is clearly capable of faking a gamesolvey catchup, 1478 has a clear scum motivation, he's more concerned with his self image than I would expect from town Dann given my impression of his character (No, I'm not going to do the meta dive required to check), he has bad associatives with DDL.
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:00 am
by Jingle
In post 2013, Dannflor wrote:What are the chances everyone who has posted in the last several pages is town imploding on itself and scum have lurked out of the game/are hoping we destroy ourselves?
VERY confident there is at most 1 scum in the active posters.
I disagree with this statement in terms of probability.
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:01 am
by Shoshin
About your alignment, Reiuji? I don't know. I had you as locktown until you started encouraging my lynch even if I'm town. And then it got worse when you asked me this stupid question when I'm obviously unsure what to think about your recent posts. And then it got doubly worse when you tried shaming me into townreading you. So I'm very uncertain right now.
