Mafiascum.net

In post 1894, Lukewarm wrote:I am questioning why you "most certainly wouldn't have valued Ircher's life about your own" in this game

Because Ircher's role is worth less than a goon. It's literally a liability.

That, plus this game has a grand total of four players I'd expect to be problematic in scumreading me, and literally none of them are charismatic. Malakittens isn't, jjh isn't, Nero isn't, and Titus isn't. Nobody in this game is familiar enough with my scum, with the ability to argue that I am scum. There's charismatic players present like petapan and when he really gets going Klick, but while most of the players have with me, the only ones likely to me are the four who have no charisma.

Thus as scum I most certainly wouldn't have valued Ircher's life above my own because both from a role perspective and a play perspective I'd have no reason to want to prop him up. Add in that I never make the same play twice as scum (easily verifiable btw as I have a long-standing meta where I can document this lack of repetition* and deliberate avoidance of it--in fact this is such a strong thing that I might need to be careful about avoiding running afoul of a listmod banning me for a trust tell of it because it has held true across hundreds of scumgames), and the fact that my push on Ircher looks identical to Control hard-clears me.

*(You can probably find me talking about it by searching for whenever I mention the TVTropes term, It Only Works Once--once a trick is known, it can never be used exactly the same way again. You can make that are . The strategy of letting myself go down to prop my scumbuddies up worked for fairly reliably. But it was still differently each time. There were overarching broad strokes of it being the same basic idea, but the execution was different each time.
Basically, people tend to naively think that the idea of "don't fix what's not broken" where I don't adapt my scumplay when the strategy is shown to have worked, is mutually exclusive with It Only Works Once, but in fact, no, they are not mutually exclusive. They augment each other. You can't use the exact same trick twice, but you can use two different tricks that have similar outcomes/premises/etc. For instance, if you were to use a phaser to shoot to kill, then a borg might adapt to it. But if you use a disintegrator, the borg won't have adapted to it. Both are energy guns that kill their target--the "don't fix what's not broken" half where they are both aiming to do the same thing. But the method they use to achieve the thing is still different.
In a game sense, I can bus a scumbuddy from page one, but bussing the scumbuddy in the won't work twice. Ever. So I wouldn't do it. Once the exact method I used to bus a specific scumbuddy has been seen, it can't be used again. So my interaction with Ircher being identical in this game to Control when Ircher was scum hard-clears me because as scum I never would use the identical strategy thanks to it being known.)

In post 1892, Something_Smart wrote:Lukewarm has eroded my Titus townread somewhat. I might vote her, even though I think Roden is more likely scum, because having one dominant wagon and nothing that challenges it is usually pretty bad for the gamestate.

You and I have read two very different games if you think Roden has been the only dominant wagon today, mate.

In post 1895, Lukewarm wrote:The fact that you, in your hypothetical, so confidently said that you would actually have valued your own life over Irchers, feels like you are adding some mental math into that hypothetical (such as knowledge of your scum PM) that your town self would not have access to to factor in OR you are just trying to make up a reason to self clear yourself.

While I don't do this by default, whenever the question comes up of how I'd act as scum when I am town, I put thought into hypothesizing what scumastina would do in the game. It's a useful exercise because it can demonstrate how scumastina is not in the game because the markers have diverged in some significant way.

Now, obviously. It ain't perfect. I'm town so I couldn't know for what scumastina would do.
But I can still make some reasonable guesses, when I put the thought into it.

I can, and have, written my "Situational Awareness" breakdowns of the entire playerlist as town before, demonstrating how scumastina would approach them in the pregame. "PlayerX will do this, the best way we have to counter this is to do A. Player Y is likely to do this, the counter should be B. Player Z is not a threat, so do C..." etc. Town-me figuring out what scum-me would do in the game in spite of it being a towngame.

And the idea of me being scum was proposed, so I thought of what I would, and wouldn't, have done as scum.
I wouldn't have bussed Ircher in the exact same way as I did in Control because I would know that Ircher was likely to go down and that people would then look to Control and finger me as scum.
I would know that Ircher is a likely elimination regardless of his alignment but as a scumbuddy that he'd be likely to take heat, and if scum didn't defend him, go down.
I would know that there aren't many players in the game who could catch scumastina and convince the town they had done so.
I would know that Ircher's role was worse than a goon, and from past experience, that Ircher wouldn't claim VT when pressured.
I would know that Ircher having fakeclaimed a confirmable role in Control would NEVER live when claiming a confirmable role this game--even with it being the truth.
I would know all of this, and come to the conclusion that bussing Ircher would give me nothing of value and that the optimal play would be to keep attention away from him. I could keep him in the peripheral. Saying that he's suspect enough but preferring the town options over him. I could push any player I wanted to, including realistic counterwagons to him. Ircher could then choose to save himself by simply stating that he didn't slip, he made an assumption for *literally any reason Ircher wanted*. This was a perfectly viable thing for him to do. The slip was NOT hard-condemning him. The slip was NOT something inescapable. The slip was NOT something which would make him guaranteed to die. The slip was NOT something he couldn't recover from.

But he deliberately chose to go down without a fight--meaning that I didn't do the above analysis and give him feedback.

In post 1913, Vivax wrote: I don't understand why Roden went silent when I jumped in for him.

Because Roden is wanting the town to eat itself up alive and wait for the wagon on him to dissipate for bullshit reasons and for a wagon on a town player to become the majority, or even better, town wagons overtaking him!

Imagine how good it'd be for the scum if instead of a wagon on Roden that can't be matched, the two dominant wagons were on Titus and Something_Smart when both of them are town.

In post 1951, Dannflor wrote:As far as Titus' actual posts go, they just seem overly careful? I get a sense of just being overly aware of how she's being perceived

Post 201 has a weird LAMISTy phrase in "generates wagons so not gunna fight this," and 204 "dude's not town" feels overly explainy. Like Titus doesn't want to be misconstrued as defending Ircher by accident?

Okay but CHALLENGE:

Find me a scumgame where Titus acted that way.

I'm reasonably sure it doesn't exist.

I'll be the first to admit it looks like scum.

Heck I scumread Titus for all of D1 off of . That Titus's posts were overly cautious, precise, meticulous, etc.

But when it comes down to it, those things are actually more towntells for her than they are scumtells, especially in regards to treatment of scumbuddies.

Titus as scum never goes for the wishy-washy not-really-defense of Ircher. She either doesn't defend him at all (not likely), or actually does defend him, and I mean defend. Not half-assed defense. I mean proper defense defense.

Keep in mind.
People keep saying, "Ircher was doomed."

Ircher was not doomed.
Ircher was not in a position that he couldn't recover from. He could have fought his way out fairly easily, with the support of his teammates. He wasn't fucked.
He was put in a suboptimal position.
But not an irrecoverable one.

He chose not to try.

Yes, people might say "it was better for him to not try and give no info than to try, fail, and give a ton of info".
Which is true, sure.
But while true, and Ircher would think that way (he did after all not try), he can be influenced by his scumbuddies and talked into following their plans. He can be swayed, influenced, and given direction. He can be given a plan, and follow it. He didn't need to give up. He wasn't forced to give up. He wasn't in a situation where giving up was unambiguously the best play possible.

He to give up.

To give up was arguably good play, but it is not unambiguously the best play. You can fight your way out of that situation and still leave the town unable to piece together an accurate solve. You can generate a gamestate favorable to the scum by producing noise, rather than too little.

Ircher chose not to. Which meant that his scumbuddies never gave him this idea. He wasn't told to try; he was either given no instruction at all or more likely, his scumbuddies encouraged him to give up.

And that tells you who his scumbuddies aren't. Titus is not a scumbuddy because Ircher's play doesn't match a Titus scum strategy and Titus's play doesn't match Ircher being scum.

In post 1951, Dannflor wrote:It feels more like she wants people to interact with her while drunk so she can get town credit rather than actually wanting to solve the game while drunk.

I agree with this! It was her wanting to interact with others while she was drunk!

I disagree with the conclusion!

It's not that "Titus wanted people to interact with people while she was drunk as a scum move".
It's that Titus wanted to interact with people while she was drunk, and in that state, .
It is specifically the that helps prove it was town from her.

Titus didn't aim to solve while drunk.
But she DID solve while drunk.
That is town.

In post 1959, PenguinPower wrote:

In post 1958, Dannflor wrote:Penguin why do you think S_S is scum

I don't really want to be too specific but it was around his mech talk about productivity and early posting today wrt productivity and PRs.

I want to reiterate that I see exactly what you do PenguinPower. I know exactly what you saw, and there is one specific scenario where you are right, because what you saw is mostly valid.

But I saw something which reversed it from hard-scum into town.

If the thing I saw that I am calling the other half which makes him town isn't actually there, then yeah he'd be hard-scum.
But that is a very specific scenario because in all other scenarios I just see him as town that is hard-spewed as such.

In post 1973, Lukewarm wrote:when her own description of Titus before this was

In post 1221, mastina wrote:Titus is at a similar level of divided read. Her play does not match her meta of being scum with Ircher. She protects her scumbuddies, and makes effort to make sure they don't fall. Her play with Ircher is highly indicative of that not being the case. All of this makes her highly likely to be town. But, a lot of her play feels like her scumgame and there are many things which feel "off" about her. So she's more divided, but also overall more town than not imo.

The uncertainty she presented in her own read of Titus leaves me unable to believe that me scum reading Titus is a Real Genuine corner stone of her scum reading me.

You are scumreading Titus for the very thing that is the towniest part of her iso.

No fucking shit I don't believe your scumread there is genuine?

If your reasons for being suspicious of Titus were aligned with my reasons for having previously not townbinned her, then that'd be one thing.
But the very thing that kept her out of scum for me is the thing placing her in scum for you--and that's where I call bullshit.

In post 1974, Dannflor wrote: this post seems to ignore the reality that I don't think anyone could've prepared for Ircher's apparent scum slip and the subsequent storm that followed.

This is something that is a true fact that is misleading in an incredibly malicious way.

Yes, nobody could have prepared for the apparent scumslip and the subsequent storm which followed. That was not something scum could have planned for.

But no, the above doesn't mean that the only possible outcome of D1 was an Ircher death; the above doesn't mean it was unrecoverable. Ircher easily could have argued his way out of the slip and the scum could have chosen to shift their stances in ways that would avoid revealing themselves to be aligned with him yet which made the gamestate more favorable to Ircher.

People are making the surface-level conclusion that "Ircher scumslipped and this was popular with the town, therefore Ircher was fucked".

No scum player worth their salt is incapable of convincing players that a scumslip wasn't a scumslip. In fact, many scum players can even fake scumslips that they deliberately make specifically to argue their way out of them in a reasonable way that looks organic, generating a townread on them. No scum player of any reasonable skill sees a strong earlygame push on them and thinks "yeah we're doomed".

It was literally an RVS post that got Ircher in trouble, and he was run up during the RVS.

Tell me: how many games have an early D1 scum wagon during the RVS that dissipates soon after?

The answer is quite a lot!

How many of those wagons were popular with the town at the time?
The answer is basically all of them!

Ircher being wagoned early during the RVS and this being popular does mean that Ircher was destined to die.

That is a surface-level narrative that doesn't take into account that Ircher has years of scumplay experience to know how to get out of it.

So the question isn't "how did the scum react when they realized Ircher was fucked?".
The question is, "Ircher decided to go down rather than fight out--why? What is the implication of that?"
The implication of Ircher deciding to go down rather than fight out is, among others, that Titus is town.

Mastina can you link a game where you correctly scum read me? If you can't case me this game then I assume it's a meta read, which in that case you should have a game to refer to here that would explain the confidence in your read.

In post 1975, Dannflor wrote:Mastina, can you elaborate on your Uncrowned and Andres reads? I feel like you keep skipping right over them

In post 105, mastina wrote:I'm not as convinced as others are that Andres is town, but I do

lean

town there overall.

Andres had players townread him early-on, and had town vibes. It wasn't anything that I can really point to and explain, but he just looked like he was solving in a way that be faked, but was PROBABLY genuine from town.

In post 721, mastina wrote:

In post 181, Malakittens wrote:

In post 140, Titus wrote:

In post 74, Malakittens wrote:Andre is prob town.

:/ Uh what? Why?

I have played scum - Andre recently and this is like night and day compared to that last game. It’s an early read, but I vibe with it.

For the record: I'm willing to trust Mala on this read.

Malakittens has kept this townread on Andres and has said it has gotten stronger and stronger with time. Malakittens insists that Andres is locktown in fact. Her townread on him is that strong. She is that Andres is town. She is certain that Andres cannot do this as scum.

Regardless of Malakittens's alignment, I trust that read.
If Malakittens is town, then her read there is genuine. The question then becomes how trustworthy is her locktown of Andres, and given what she's described and her experience with him and her confidence, I am willing to bet that she is right.
If Malakittens is scum, then she could be hard-townbinning a scumbuddy, but in practice, she wouldn't do that and there's not really room for both Malakittens and Andres on a team anyway. Mala could be scum, but Mala and Andres can't be.

Beyond that: Andres's content has gotten townier and townier with time. Especially on D2. Posts like this demonstrate a solid thought process highly likely to be town. 1052 is dead on the point. 1060 has some good vibes too in particular,

In post 1060, Andresvmb wrote:(I didn’t find the “slip” killer, the freezing is what did Ircher in)

This is something that literally everyone pushing Titus is ignoring. The Titus-scum narrative on the logic "Ircher was caught by the slip and was fucked". Andres is one of the only players in the game to put the deeper thought needed to realize that wasn't the case, that it was Ircher's later responses which sealed his fate with what he did and didn't do.

I find the 1091 into the followthrough to be sincere. While it's to be performative or even scum thinking that asking would be scummy and then immediately retracting, the more likely option given Andres was suspicious of Vivax initially was Andres wanted to push Vivax on the details of his claim, but then realized that would be anti-town and took it back.

The towniness really begins to skyrocket in 1123 and the followthrough though. The viewpoint is sincere and thoughtful enough that I don't see it as scum. The way he worded it, the way he thought of things, the way he approached it, all felt town.

1130 is a valid criticism of Roden and good point in defense of Titus.

1169 may be easy to fake as scum but was still something I read as sincere.

Andres's interactions with Roden radiate town at every stage regardless of Roden's alignment but if Roden is scum.

And the final nail in the coffin that locks Andres as town is this post, and the immediate follow-through (and subsequent elaboration).


When it comes to Uncrowned, it's largely been a combination of Reads I Liked, insight I liked, and the general vibes Uncrowned has given off: casual chill gaming that is still contributing and pushing in a pro-town way, akin to Ydrasse (speaking of which the Uncrowned-Ydrasse interactions make me townread both halves of the engagement). How Uncrowned has interacted with Roden was incredibly important. The engagement there looks like town who doesn't know what the alignment of the person they're interacting with is. 409 gives an example of this. 469 is a good post too.

Uncrowned is also the player who has voiced suspicion on me, which I find the least likely to have ulterior motives for having done so. Less than you, less than Lukewarm, heck even less than Something_Smart. Uncrowned's engagement there looks like genuine unfamiliarity with me and trying to figure me out, rather than scum who has a good idea of what I am like.


Basically while I lack meta on both, both are likely to be town by play.
I realize it doesn't display well in iso. Isoing them doesn't reveal them to be town.
Reading the game, however, DOES.

Their townness isn't found in iso; their townness is found in reading all the posts in the game and how their content relates specifically to the gamestate at the time and showing nuances.

In post 1977, Lukewarm wrote:it *feels* like he is either town, or he is writing specifically for me, and I don't think that I am in a position to be catered to lol

Why not?

You are not an elimination candidate today, but are a candidate for future days.

You are a strong pusher of a mislim on Titus. In fact are the main pusher there.

You are the perfect person to cater to because it's zero risk high reward. Dannflor loses nothing by catering to you. He gains a more scum-controlled/favored gamestate almost no matter what.

In post 1993, Dannflor wrote:

In post 1988, mastina wrote:Okay I have a new hot take:

One, but not both, of {Lukewarm, Dannflor} are scum.

They are

not

scumbuddies, but they are

not

both town.

Their interactions already have me sure that they're not partnered together but both look like scum interacting with town, if that makes sense. One of them is town being interacted with by scum; the other is scum interacting with town.

This doesn’t make sense and you should be reevaluating more if you simultaneously see us both as scum interacting with town and as not aligned

It does make sense.

I know I am wrong about my scumread on of you.

But the other is definitely scum.

There's just too many players with too good reasons to be town for there to be too many town outside of those names.

And among them, there are behaviors that are highly scum-indicative.

Pushing Titus the main and most persistent counterwagon to Roden (notably, Roden has had THREE counterwagons! Vivax prior to his vig claim, Something_Smart, and Titus have ALL been attempted! Does THREE wagons countering to Roden seem like a town-driven scenario to you? It sure doesn't to me!) is among them, especially when ignoring the reasons for Titus to be town or even calling the things clearing her as being reasons for her to be scum.

Your interactions with Lukewarm aren't scum-scum, and vice-versa.

But both of you, individually, tick basically every marker for scum.

Outside of the STRONG town pool and thus being in the quite small PoE.
Pushing the exact agenda scum need to be pushing in this moment.
Ignoring facts that work against the pro-scum push that scum need to make.

Basically I know you can't both be scum, but I also know one of you to be scum. Literally the one and only world it wouldn't be is if the scumteam is {Roden, fireisredsir, Malakittens I guess?}, but the fact that both of you are hard-defending a slot who cannot be town with both of you town seems to suggest that one of you is scum.

In post 1995, Dannflor wrote:Do you think there might not be some value to what we have to say?

Honestly?

No.

I know that is incredibly insulting and disrespectful of players that normally are quite competent and skilled.

But at least , the value of, say, "Titus is scum here" is, explicitly, not something I value.

I respect the Roden-is-town belief since even I have paranoia there.
But the replacements to Roden for wagoning? No. If there were a wagon counter to Roden that wasn't on someone I was hard-townbinning I may hold more interest in respecting those vastly different viewpoints.

But in this game specifically, I feel that my reads have to be correct.

In post 1999, Dannflor wrote:Mastina I have this sinking gut feeling that you are town and that scum is currently playing around you specifically and pocketing you

Name names and I can humor you but I'm not going to respond to Titus/Vivax/Something_Smart as options.
Nor jjh, nor PenguinPower.

Name a name you think is scum playing around me/pocketing me outside of those and I will listen.

But not jjh/Vivax/Something_Smart/PenguinPower or Titus.

In post 2005, Roden wrote:If you can't case me this game

I've been casing you the entire game.

I've not the energy to rehash tonight but suffice to say it's there in my iso aplenty.

And Vivax is right, in his as well.

And in all the players who voted you on D1 and half of those who did on D2, too. (The likes of Uncrowned in particular have cased you.)

Could you not step around the question

firing

Roden [6]:

mastina, Andresvmb, Klick, Malakittens, Ydrasse, Titus

Titus [4]:

Roden, Lukewarm, Ausuka, Dannflor

Something_Smart [3]:

PenguinPower, Uncrowned, Vivax

Malakittens [1]:

furtiveglance

Dannflor [1]:

fireisredsir

not voting [2]:

jjh927, Something_Smart

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

flavour

flavour

now playing...
♫

Vojko V - Zovi čovika

♫
▶ ❚❚ ─────────────────●─────────────  2:37 / 4:32

Dannflor scummy af
Roden scummy af
The third is the deepwolf but not like DEEP deep

I've read the last few pages in chunks, I feel like someone asked me a question but I can't remember who or what and I can't find it

In post 1968, Roden wrote:I'd made some points about Uncrowned earlier when prompted by Andres and it never really got a response, instead it got buried by all the focus on me and my role and trying to "gotcha" me. They were insistent on trying to get me to play, but once my activity and content sky rocketed they had nothing to say and instead just blankly voted me. Why ask me to do more if you had no intention of engaging with me? Why didn't they or anyone else have anything to say about my read?

What really stands out is that Uncrowned criticized my posts D1 for being too focused on mech despite only making two mech-focused posts. But then today there has been pages upon pages dedicated only to discussing mech and voting people based on mech. Yet Uncrowned has had nothing to say about it, and instead supported a wagon based on mech.

bro

if i'm not mistaken, this first part is either a bold faced lie or you just didn't see my response to you

i was the last one to respond in our 'interaction' and you said nothing and i'm pretty sure i'll be able to find it and quote it after this

also i criticised multiple d1 mech talk people because i don't think it really gets us anywhere. d2 the mech talk has been what, about claims? that's a lot more reasonable given game state and doesn't just seem like scum trying to find something to do on d1. context matters and you're ignoring it

In post 536, Roden wrote:

In post 531, Uncrowned wrote:12 is rvs and the others were you defending yourself which was also what I referenced in my original post about you

and 432 had nothing inherently wrong with it it's just you went back to referring to something about setup which I found funny

That's a simplified and not really accurate summary of those posts. You claimed all I talked about was mech, which is factually wrong. It's ok to say you just misremembered my posts.

You seemed to imply 432 had something wrong with it, you said I "proved you right" and you still seem to want to run me up. Talk to me about it.

you said this and then in post 547 i said

in my original post I said mech or defending yourself. that qualifies under both. simplified, sure. but it's what you did.

and in the callout post I said what I just said above, and then 432 mentioned setup balance as your next post. there's not really much to "run up" it literally just looked like you were avoiding giving proper reads in favour of talking about setup shit which I think is +scum

if you were at work and just catching up then there's nor really much to discuss and I will have to judge you off of what you've done since then though I will maintain the first posting to me is still +scum

maybe it's because I'm not one to care for mech talk but if the majority of your posting is still on the topic of mech (even up to 432) I'll 9 times outta 10 be more inclined to think you're scummy. does that make sense?

and then look at my very next post 548

you made no reply and didn't interact with me at all until D2

so are you just making stuff up to appear like my read on you is fake or...? because that was a poor attempt lmao

so what really happened is you just ignored my posting after attempts to "engage" with you, but now expect me to engage with you when you're in the middle of claim shit with other slots that i frankly don't care about because you obviously didn't have the intent to engage in the first place when i was giving you questions on shit that wasn't mech based, which i have repeatedly stated i don't care for

no misrepping in my neighbourhood tyvm

In post 536, Roden wrote:

In post 531, Uncrowned wrote:12 is rvs and the others were you defending yourself which was also what I referenced in my original post about you

and 432 had nothing inherently wrong with it it's just you went back to referring to something about setup which I found funny

That's a simplified and not really accurate summary of those posts. You claimed all I talked about was mech, which is factually wrong. It's ok to say you just misremembered my posts.

You seemed to imply 432 had something wrong with it, you said I "proved you right" and you still seem to want to run me up. Talk to me about it.

In post 1036, Roden wrote:Wow, that's really annoying. I targeted Peta last night.

though in fairness you made zero posts between these two, though again i find this difficult to believe that you wouldn't have at least checked to catch up and my posting replying to you was just a few posts after so... yeah, why lie my guy

In post 2010, mastina wrote:

In post 1999, Dannflor wrote:Mastina I have this sinking gut feeling that you are town and that scum is currently playing around you specifically and pocketing you

Name names and I can humor you but I'm not going to respond to Titus/Vivax/Something_Smart as options.

Period.

Nor jjh, nor PenguinPower.

Name a name you think is scum playing around me/pocketing me outside of those and I will listen.

But not jjh/Vivax/Something_Smart/PenguinPower or Titus.

Have you considered that Ausuka and Malakittens could be mafia piggybacking the Roden vote? Town driven doesn't mean all town on it

In post 1219, Roden wrote:

In post 1190, Andresvmb wrote:

In post 1180, Roden wrote:

In post 1177, Andresvmb wrote:

In post 1148, Roden wrote:

In post 1136, Andresvmb wrote:You’re using the NK to justify your vote, which is always suspect (it’s like you haven’t even considered that Scum make kills to confuse / frame the Town). But the single most important way you’re pointing to for identifying Scum in the game from day play conflicts directly with that vote. The fact that you’re not even acknowledging that is bizarre.

I'm voting Titus because it's a read on how she plays the game as scum. She kills threats and stays low key. I can scum read her independently of how I think the scum team played around Ircher's slip. If you think that's a scummy thought process then you're gonna have to explain why because I don't get it.

I didn’t call it Scummy I called it odd.

Imagine I said that I think Scum went out of their way to defend Ircher. And then I voted Titus. And when you asked me why, I made the NK argument you made. I would fully expect for you to ask me well, Titus actively attacked Ircher the entire time. Doesn’t that give you pause? Wouldn’t that contradict what you’re saying is the main reason to suspect someone to be Scum? That’s more where I’m coming from. Not being consistent with your thought process isn’t Scum indicative actually. At least I don’t think so.

The thing is that I wouldn't question you on that. I don't think it's odd to have conflicting scum reads, or have a specific scum read as an exception to how one thinks scum would play.

And I figured you saw the thought process as scummy because you were voting me. I don't think you voted me just because you think I'm odd.

I was trying to put a vote down based on what someone who seems to have a better grasp on the game is voting (I think mastina is Town?). I haven’t actually myself figured out who I think is most likely to be Scum.

I haven’t been historically able to read Titus properly. I think your points aren’t totally silly. I think if the Scum had two shots, shooting petapan who seemed to have a magnifying glass aimed at Titus makes a lot of sense.

Also, what do you make of 468 through 470 from Uncrowned? This is why I think it’s possible they’re Scum (if I had to summarize it).

I think it's a little out of place for them to suggest that because Ircher's wagon didn't hit a lull that it implies it wasn't a mis-elim wagon, when there wasn't really a chance for it to hit a lull in the first place. The focus on the Ydrasse wagon also feels weird, it was obvious the votes were just leftover from RVS. The vote on me is just kind of whatever though, like I thought it was weird when it happened since they seemed confident that Ircher was scum, and pressuring a low activity player is baseline scum play. But they aren't on my radar atm.

is this the attempt to engage with me after being prodded by andre that you're talking about? because this is the only other thing i can possibly thing of, and this isn't asking anything of me at all

"yeah guys i swear i really prodded uncrowned but he's just refusing to interact with me now that i'm actually talking to him" lol this can't be a serious thing you're trying to push rn

i also asked andre to elaborate on those posts and he's yet to say anything i believe so uhh, must be scum too i guess.

VOTE: Roden

i find it too hard to believe he's not blatantly lying about his intentions with me. good elim let's go squad

literally in the post you suggest you wanted to interact with me you also say "but they're (me) aren't on my radar atm."

you don't ask me a direct question

you're just making comments about a post another player made in response to them, with plenty of passive, uncombative language ("a little out of place", "feels weird", "their vote on me is just kind of whatever though") like you don't actually care about getting a read on me at all outside of replying to andre's query about me

and i was apparently supposed to make a full engagement out of that with you so we could really solve each others alignments, huh?

this is fake solving attempts if i've ever seen it ngl

In post 2000, mastina wrote:You and I have read two very different games if you think Roden has been the only dominant wagon today, mate.

Roden was the only dominant wagon at the time of me writing that.

Spoiling to condense.

In post 2007, mastina wrote:

In post 1977, Lukewarm wrote:it *feels* like he is either town, or he is writing specifically for me, and I don't think that I am in a position to be catered to lol

Why not?

You are not an elimination candidate today, but are a candidate for future days.

You are a strong pusher of a mislim on Titus. In fact are the main pusher there.

You are the perfect person to cater to because it's zero risk high reward. Dannflor loses nothing by catering to you. He gains a more scum-controlled/favored gamestate almost no matter what.

Because it feels like I have little thread control. Despite being here, and fairly loud about about my reads on them, my town read Roden is the biggest wagon and my scum read Titus's wagon just won't get rolling.

It sure does feel like I am opening this up every day to shout "Don't kill this person, I think they are town. Kill this person, I think they are scum" and the rest of the game thread is trucking along

The thread is just trucking along because you won't listen Lukewarm. You aren't addressing anyone else's concerns. You seem to think by yelling an opinion several town think is wrong is helpful.

If you're town, you give scum a place to stall out the game. They don't have to contribute or don't want to because Roden's scum. My wagon is sketch enough as it is. You'd see that if you weren't overjoyed to have just anyone with you.

If you're scum, you're clawing to protect Roden anyway so *shrug*.