Mini 828 - ProzacMod 3 - Lost Mafia - Over


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Post Post #2050 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:33 am

Post by Amished »

I thought your nk-immunity was due to EmpTyger finding you. I explained this previously and was corrected by Emp as well. Take a deep breath or four.
I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.

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Post Post #2051 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:41 am

Post by curiouskarmadog »

wow it is like we are playing the game...

ZA?
curiouskarmadog wrote:
ZA, your thoughts on the SK reverting back mech? In our shoes, how would you have felt?
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Post Post #2052 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:34 am

Post by Santos »

Your successful investigation was wasted as it was used on somebody already confirmed town!
I came out first and confirmed EmpTyger was not mafia before he told us about how he saved the SK. I also picked EmpTyger because he was unreadable in the beginning and curiouskarmadog really wanted to lynch him and VP, so I wanted to see if pursuing Emp was worth it. As it turned out, I confirmed Emp, he confirmed ZONEACE and with the information I knew it left very few people on the list of who could be scum. So I figured it was ChannelDeliBird and wasn't going to quit that pursuit.
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Post Post #2053 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:44 am

Post by Amished »

EMP wasn't coming under that much fire, iirc. Why did you decide to come out with your investigation after one night on somebody that wasn't suspicious and wasn't getting wagoned? You allowed me to roleblock you from then on out making you extremely worthless to the town.

I know I posted what you should've done as a pro-town cop during the game (I think D3 before BM claimed). What you did was foolish and irresponsible as a town power role. You also went after EMP because you thought he was a godfather; which makes absolutely no sense. There were no scum revealed yet, why would you attack somebody you've been told is innocent and ended up clearing another player?

None of your play makes sense from any town perspective. At all. Defending xRx kinda, but after that nothing.
I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.

No, my name is not "Ed."
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Post Post #2054 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:21 pm

Post by Santos »

Amished wrote: There were no scum revealed yet, why would you attack somebody you've been told is innocent and ended up clearing another player?
Because so many people were against me being the cop. So the only alternative was to assume he was a godfather and I received an innocent result.

However, that lead us down the road about what I'm supposed to be told by the mod and what I actually received from the mod. That was confusing.
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Post Post #2055 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:27 pm

Post by Amished »

If you would've gone about it differently, not nearly as many people would've disbelieved your claim. Especially after you lying about your role (iron townie) people are easily going to disbelieve everything you say from then on. Lying initially hurt you a lot.

Also, just because people disbelieved you doesn't mean you investigated a GF, it means that people doing believe you.
I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.

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Post Post #2056 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:51 pm

Post by ZONEACE »

No, i've said several time my NK immunity was from the start of the game. The reason CKD didn't die the night Emp found me was because of EMP finding me.
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Post Post #2057 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:53 pm

Post by ZONEACE »

curiouskarmadog wrote:wow it is like we are playing the game...

ZA?
curiouskarmadog wrote:
ZA, your thoughts on the SK reverting back mech? In our shoes, how would you have felt?
The fact taht I came out with the info about it after i got my qustion leaves less sympathetic to you guys.

But in general, it seemed pretty clear that almost anything could happen in this game with the questions so not expecting it to me seems like your own fault.
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Post Post #2058 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:23 pm

Post by EmpTyger »

So that it’s not lost- I want to emphasize that I did enjoy the game and on the whole enjoyed playing with all of you (with 1 exception). Indeed, that’s my point about no regrets. So even though I lost, it’s not a bitter loss, because I had fun, and I don’t think I would have done much significantly differently.



Interesting point of comparison: the LOST Season 1 mafia.
That game also came down to a 3-person endgame of {SK, roleblocker, ex-powerrole}. However, the roleblocker and the ex-powerrole were town in that game.
And on the final night *2* townspeople died, without seeming cause (as it happened, 1 was the SK, the other was from an ability that one of the dying townspeople lied about). The town correctly lynched for a win.

So there, if the town had no-lynched to try the Prisoner’s Dilemma (as there were seemingly 2 killing factions), the town would have lost- but they instead lynched correctly and won.

On the contrary, here, if the town had no-lynched to try the Prisoner’s Dilemma (even though there seemingly was 1 killing faction) the town would have won- but they instead lynched correctly and lost.



VP:
The flattery is too kind, and more than I probably deserved… but I’m holding on to the cake anyway.



Santos:
Forget about the town confirming me or Reckoner for a moment. How was the town supposed to know whether *you* were innocent or guilty?

All we have to go on is your play. And, your play consisted of you (a) lurk D1 (b) fakeclaim D2 (c) contradict yourself D3 and (d) had vouched for the innocence of a role which wound up being confirmed mafia.

See the problem?

Re miller claim:
A miller claim is just like any other claim. It’s just one piece of data to be taken into account.
You’ve got to consider their play.
With any claim in a closed setup, you can’t just make an automatic determination of alignment (there are some rare exceptions, like if there’s some kind of visible proof, like with a vigilante). A miller can be an honest innocent, or they can be lying mafia. Just like a cop can be an honest innocent or a lying mafia. The only way to tell is to evaluate their play.

The problem with CKD was that his “unmistakable townie gambits” were, in fact, mistaken. His reasoning against VP and Reckoner was either wrong or he refused to provide any. And by D4 it was established that VP and Reckoner were both innocent.
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Post Post #2059 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:31 pm

Post by Amished »

EmpTyger wrote:VP:
The flattery is too kind, and more than I probably deserved… but I’m holding on to the cake anyway.
:( I mean, VP is cool and all, but that was my cake :( Any my cake *isn't* a lie.
I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.

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Post Post #2060 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:36 pm

Post by EmpTyger »

Amished:
Um... well, that's awkward...
<gives apple turnover to Amished>
My bad. We cool?
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Post Post #2061 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:41 pm

Post by Amished »

We're cool *now*.

/me eats apple turnover
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Post Post #2062 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:11 am

Post by Locke Lamora »

I tried to keep following this game but I honestly had no idea what was going on by the end. In any case, it was fun playing with you all and I hope to do it again, if I'm not doing so already!
If ya smell what The Locke is cookin'!

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Post Post #2063 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:39 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

I approve of receiving gratitude for doing nothing.
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Post Post #2064 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:49 pm

Post by curiouskarmadog »

Emp, I provided a ton of reasoning why I thought Reck and VP were scum...I am not sure why you keep saying I didnt...the fact is I was tired of saying it over and over again. I was indeed wrong, however, I wasnt on 4 townie lynches.

I also was THE ONLY ONE who wasnt sold that you and ZA were confirmed townies...now I think about it, I was attacked as scummy for that line of thinking.

I also assume that I am your one exception to "I enjoyed playing with you all"...nice. at least you got your last dig in.
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Post Post #2065 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:50 pm

Post by curiouskarmadog »

also, I am not sure why VP and reck were proven townie at any point of the game....given how this game ended, how was anyone?
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Post Post #2066 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:57 pm

Post by Porochaz »

The game when I designed it, was meant to make sure that noone could be 100% confirmed.
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Post Post #2067 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:29 pm

Post by Amished »

EMP was very confirmed. Nobody else really could be; but it's pretty bastardly if they couldn't be. Scum don't get cops really; so xRx and Santos would both be confirmed. SK's never "revert" so EMP and ZA would both be. Combine that with having to kill a doc and deal with a busdriver (that we {scum} were lucky to get lynched) I still feel is naive to think that people wouldn't confirm themselves through the manner that they could've and should've.

@ckd: I believe BM was the one exception to EMP's having fun this game, but if you want to beat yourself up, go for it.

@VP: You would take credit for me -_- Bum.
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Post Post #2068 (ISO) » Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:35 am

Post by curiouskarmadog »

yeah...Emp and ZA in any other game should have been confirmed. I have never been in a game that the SK has reverted...and I hope I am never in another. I actually was thinking that maybe we didnt have an SK and that the scum (through a question) got an additional kill for some reason....that line of thinking was mainly tunnel visioning on Emp though. THis was demostrated when Santos came out with his cop investigation on Emp...I immediately thought he was the GF.....

at any rate, I realized what I was doing and corrected the action, though it was tough for me to let it go completely. Then I suspected Santos for the lying, but again, couldnt figure out why scum would do that.....once everyone was attacking me for my opinion change on santos and was pushing for his lynch I felt it was the CB lynch all over again.

at any rate, I like Emp, but just got fustrated with him this game (as he was with me) I hope the dig wasnt at me..call me sensitive at time, I guess that is how I got my title.

very disappointed with BM though...and some extent with the mod.....but RL is what RL is.
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Post Post #2069 (ISO) » Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:50 am

Post by Battle Mage »

haha, sorry all. I dont really know what to say. CKD had me pegged from the start. Replacing into a game i had no time for, because i needed Porochaz to replace into my game. The game was stacked against us- my partner was a lurker, the QT was completely useless, and from the point i joined, it was pretty much assured we were going to lose, due to half the game being confirmed town.

When Amish replaced in, it might have been a bit different, except for the fact i had to come up with a convincing fakeclaim, which was fricking impossible not knowing the show, and given that my character was obvscum for reasons i believe Sajin pointed out before his death.

Anyway, thanks to Porochaz for the gameswap, and kudos to VP Baltar and CKD. On a personal level, i gained alot of respect for both of you in how you chose to conduct yourselves in this game. :)

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Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #2070 (ISO) » Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:32 am

Post by EmpTyger »

CKD:
Please be assured that you certainly did not affect my enjoyment of this game! You and I certainly had some strong disagreements- but that's part of the game of mafia, and I expect it! I don't expect consensus (lol although I won't say I certainly don't mind it) and I have no illusions about everyone agreeing with everyone about everything. And that's true both during the game and afterwards. So while I may disagree with you regarding some aspects of how you played, I have no doubt about that you intended to play, and that's what's important.



BM:
I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but please understand in the future that that's not an acceptable excuse.

For comparison's sake: Porochaz didn't even have enough time to mod this game, but consider the effort he put into your game when he replaced in. Amished's situation was just as hopeless, but consider the effort he put into this game when he replaced in.
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Post Post #2071 (ISO) » Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:12 pm

Post by Santos »

Did you have anyone review the setup, Porochaz? Interesting idea, but bastardly :)
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Post Post #2072 (ISO) » Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:18 pm

Post by jasonT1981 »

Good game folks, I enjoyed playing with you all. Hope to play with ya all soon again. Well done to the winner
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Post Post #2073 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:53 pm

Post by EmpTyger »

Mod:
Still would be interested in seeing the setup here.
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Post Post #2074 (ISO) » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:09 am

Post by curiouskarmadog »

EmpTyger wrote:Mod:
Still would be interested in seeing the setup here.
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