MKM II GAME OVER

[AceMarksman]

Millar did not claim that, and instead claimed to be vanilla. RV Count supports that he either did not have his vote reduced OR

was a double voter and lying to the town even up to his death.

Knowing millar's playstyle and ego, the bolded is likely.

K7 confirmed that his vote was 0 and has been 0 the entire game.

Then I guess I can't reduce a player's vote below 0

Also, why did you have 2 RV on D4?

I didn't. Not that I know of, at least.

--Related item missed earlier: you previously claimed that jumping on players is the Mushroom Kingdom's main way of killing. How do you know this?

I never claimed it was their "main way of killing", meerly that my microgoombaing prevents a player from jumping. I don't know what faction uses jumping :/.

@ immunities: I apologize for not being clear about that. I am immune to fire and shells, and will become a normal goomba if I am jumped on. I never said that a paragoomba is not immune and I never claimed that the MK kills by jumping. All I know is that a faction kills by shells, one by fire, and one by jumping. This does not mean that they are the same faction or that they are not.

@ voting for RBT: her play early and lack of much imput (see above post being a one liner with not much contribution) are key. It is my personal experiance on a different site that single-player scum groups (i.e serial killers) tend to lurk. Now, I know that I am guilty of the same, but I have tried to contribute these last few pages. Notice also how RBT has an unclaimed kill, which would fit in with a serial-killer type role.

- - -

@ RBT: According to kast, K7's vote didn't get reduced after I targeted him with 0 votes, therefore I assume my power doesn't work on people with 0 votes. Regardless, I didn't target anyone last night.

[Kast]

I am immune to fire and shells, and will become a normal goomba if I am jumped on.

Uh...paragoombas die to both fire and shells. They do reduce to regular goombas when jumped on. I think you're lying. Not a big change since I already thought you were lying.

I am more concerned with your thoughts on why RBT should be lynched instead of you. It would probably be easier if you present the argument in the context that the person you are convincing believes you are both likely third party scum.

[AceMarksman]

Uh...paragoombas die to both fire and shells. They do reduce to regular goombas when jumped on. I think you're lying. Not a big change since I already thought you were lying.

I hate the "lynch me and find out" attitude, but that's about how I feel right now. I can only assume the reasong that law included that part of my immunities is because paragoombas fly and shells and fire usually stay to the ground.

[ZEEnon]

Why did you target Caf (

unless you're just being honest and admitting that you NKed caf

)?

I'm not sure what you are trying to infer by the bolded part, but I targeted caf19 because I was suspicious of him/her.
This is evident when I wanted him/her to claim right after me.

[ZEEnon]

Uh...paragoombas die to both fire and shells.

Incorrect. Paragoomba is the flying one, I assume.
Therefore, I would think that shells are unable to reach them in the air.

[Kast]

@ZEEnon-
-Incorrect. Paragoombas are the jumping ones. They have wings and can jump fairly high, but they always land back on the ground and spend a majority of their time walking, usually only jumping when Mario approaches.

In any event, shells can be carried and immediately kill a paragoomba. If the paragoomba can be jumped on, then it can have a shell smashed into it OR a fireball fired into it. Any enemy that can be jumped on can be reached by fireballs; you can actually reach some enemies with fireballs that you cannot reach by jumping.

-What did you think about Caf's claim? He claimed an easily demonstrable role.

[ZEEnon]

He voted me with his double vote without giving prior knowledge about it.
That is/was fairly scummy in my eyes, as it could have resulted in me getting lynched instead.

[Kast]

@Paragoomba Immunities-
Some parakoopas jump, others fly all the time. If paragoombas are immune to fire and shells, one would expect parakoopas are likewise immune.

@AceM-
-It seems odd that you didn't share your immunities when you claimed. You sound almost unkillable except by lynch. Vote manipulation plus immunity or 1 shot protection from multiple NKs methods sounds like an independent role.

It also seems a bit odd that your one claimed weakness (being able to be jumped on) is also able to be solved by using your power to prevent other players from jumping on you.

-Immunity to fire limits options for tonight.

I had initially been thinking we could lynch RBT and remove a potential NK (it would certainly simplify things), I could shoot AceM tonight and hope for ZEEnon to target me. Either I explode and he dies with me, or at least we are left with one town (ort) and one possible town (nyx) who should be able to outvote ZEEnon. Even if ZEEnon did not target me, at least one of {ort, nyx} would survive and could possibly outvote ZEEnon. If I lived, then there would probably be two of {kast, ort, nyx} alive and we should definitely be able to outvote ZEEnon.

I was hoping that RBT and/or AceM would let anything slip that could help determine the viability of this plan.

Now, however, it looks like AceM pretty much can't be NKed, and likely will use his vote manipulation powers. I strongly dislike the prospects for town winning an endgame with an independent with demonstrated vote manipulation powers including a double vote and a vote removal/reduction (which he did on D4).

If we lynch AceM today, I can shoot one of RBT or ZEEnon (unannounced which one). If I survive (ie. started with 4 fireballs), then we should end the following day with at least one player alive out of {Kast, Ort, Nyx} and one alive out of {RBT, ZEEnon}.

RBT appears to have 0 vote (I'm guessing AceM targetted RBT last night to reduce likelihood of RBT voting him) so hopefully town can outvote him.

If ZEEnon survives, he can possibly also be outvoted (depends on how many townies are alive, whether he can use his claimed -1 RV multiplier, and what order players vote in).

If I die, then potentially one of ZEEnon/RBT might die with me (seems unlikely), and it may come down to whether ZEEnon/RBT targeted unique targets or not.

Vote: AceM

@Ort, Nyx-
Appreciate looking over my thoughts and pointing out if I missed anything.

If my vote allows scum to turbo lynch for a win...I'm not really seeing much better options right now. (If nyx is MK with ZEEnon, then this is probably still the best we can do, since it is quite possible that RBT as SK would need to shoot nyx as potential mafia buddy for ZEEnon).

[Kast]

Btw, lynching ZEEnon is similar to lynching RBT. We still end up with at best 2 townies facing off against AceM who has a demonstrated double vote and vote reduction power.

[Kast]

Some feedback would be appreciated...

[ZazieR]

As I don''t have mod powers, I just put the VC here.

Visible vote count

-Riceballtail (1) - AceMarksman
-AceMarksman (1) - Kast

Not Voting (4) - Nyx, Ortolan, ZEEnon, Riceballtail

With 6 alive it takes 4 votes to lynch

[ZEEnon]

I have nothing to say except that you are wrong about me.
Well, either wrong or purposely feigning your suspicion of me.

[AceMarksman]

. . .

I had a long and (in my oppinion) brilliant post typed up and clicked off the text box, hit backspace, and deleted it all.

. . .

:'(

I don't remember all that I said but it was pretty much:

1)kast has gone from having no (visible) read on me to having a 100% non BA read on me. It seems that he either a) talked himself into suspecting me or b) had his sights set on me from the start of the game. From the tone of his rececnt posts, I assume b.

2) (This is directed at Kast.) Why is my role so overpowered and unbelieveable when gorrad's role also existed in the game? Did you forget about that?

3) have we forgotten about RBT?

[AceMarksman]

Well, either wrong or purposely feigning your suspicion of me.

I see someone had the same thought as I did. I really don't like kast's play of late.

[AceMarksman]

Pardon the triple post, but I'm going to band camp tomorrow and will likely be without internet access for the next week. I'll try to find a computer but I'm not sure that I'll have the energy to post :/. Marching band is hell.

[Kast]

2) (This is directed at Kast.) Why is my role so overpowered and unbelieveable when gorrad's role also existed in the game? Did you forget about that?

3) have we forgotten about RBT?

-Your role itself is not completely overpowered and unbelievable. The primary reason I am suspicious of you is that mod provided evidence (RV counts) and testimonies from confirmed townies contradict your claims.

Your role claim also changed from early soft-claiming multiple immunities, to later claiming without a hint of those immunities, to later claiming nigh invulnerability to night kills.

The flavor of your claimed role also does not fit with game flavor.

-Having one overpowered townie does not make it more likely that there are more than one overpowered townies.

Overpowered roles tend to be independents.

-I haven't forgotten RBT. If you can show me a way for town to lynch RBT and win, I'm open for suggestions (or rather if you can show me any way that town greatly improves chances of winning). If you were not immune to fire, then it would be better to lynch one of RBT or ZEEnon.

-Have fun at band camp.

[ZEEnon]

I'm sorry but i'm going to be V/LA from the 31st until the 5th at most starting today; very short notice.

[ZazieR]

So Acemarksman will be V/LA till next week Saturday and ZEEnon will be V/LA until the 5th of August at most.
Noted

[ortolan]

wow that's amazingly bad timing for Ace (if he's town), LuL

I'll probably vote for him tomorrow, I don't like him ignoring the second round of questions. He also totally neglected to answer any of Kast's points about inconsistences in his voting.

[ZazieR]

Also, Nyx will be V/LA from the 3rd till the 10th of August.

[Nyx]

Also, Nyx will be V/LA from the 3rd till the 10th of August.

I've been too busy with this unexpected vacation that I totally forgot to post my V/LA in here.

[ortolan]

I am seriously agonising over whether to vote Ace or RBT

I think zEEnon is town for the record

[ortolan]

I thought your case against ZEEnon was pretty weak Kast

The only possibly scummy thing you pointed out was

Things were extremely rushed those days, and I was incredibly annoyed to see
that millar1 was lynched without me being able to analyze the situation.
Hell, did you guys even allow him to claim?

As for my suspicions, I was thinking populartajo. Looks like I was incorrect.
As for the living players, I think that Gorrad and subsequently, ortolan, are town.
I'm quite unsure about everyone else to be honest, as I have not been regularly following this game.

The bolded appears like spouting town platitudes- "oh my, how could you lynch him without allowing me to analyse the situation!!!". That said it's a pretty (very) weak reason for suspecting someone.

[ortolan]

ZEE's target Kast appears to have worked.

Wouldn't you have known definitively at the time whether it worked or not, as Lawrencelot pms people when their votes have changed? (this is correct, isn't it?)

Re: AM's power being able to take people's real vote below zero. It makes more sense as an ability if it cannot do this. Someone with a -1 vote has more power than someone with a 0 vote (well certainly if they are made aware of it ahead of time, which I think is the case in this game is it not?), therefore if someone already had a zero vote then if AM found them scummy and therefore microgoombaed them, if this then reduced their vote to zero he is effectively helping those he finds scummy.

The most damning things I see are:

AceM's target Millar does not appear to have any effect (unless Millar was originally a double voter).

and

except for AceM who appears to have a double vote.

Am I correct in thinking the mod always tells people at the start of the day what their real vote count is? If so this makes AM not claiming his double vote

and

RBT apparently going through the whole game not knowing his votes were depleted scummy (also hasn't he been suggesting recently he

could

still have used his vig powers, even though if he has 0 votes he could not?)

[Kast]

-Lawrencelot only sent me one PM at day start with how many votes I have. I don't know if that would have been a different number but changed as a result of ZEEnon.

-I think it is likely that both AceM and RBT are liars. Combine that with RBT probably killing MK on N1, and AceM's instrumental role in lynching MK on D1 and D2, I think they both have to be third party.

-My primary reason for suspecting ZEEnon as MK is process of elimination. I don't think an MK mafia with just toads and yoshi is realistic. There is probably one MK member remaining. It isn't me. I don't think it can be Ort, AceM, or RBT. I think it is unlikely to be Nyx due to joining D2. ZEEnon is the only fit. His behavior is also consistent with an MK player (not necessarily indicative that he is one).

Ultimately, it doesn't matter whether ZEEnon is MK or not, since I don't think lynching him is the best way for town to win.