In post 2071, Ausuka wrote:Uncrowned what do you think of the idea scum might be bussing Roden
I agree with furtive that the idea of resistance is... Meh to me but I think Andres feels kinda town
I was disagreeing, not shading
Scum bussing Roden? I'm not Uncrowned but it's possible. Mastina isn't bussing Roden for sure. I think Mastina's started to really town it up lately, my scumreads probably won't change too much based on Roden's flip, if he does flip
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:40 am
by Ausuka
I didn't think you were suspecting Andres, I'm just saying I also disagree but townlean Andres despite that
I agree with your perspective broadly but am asking uncrowned for Reasons
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:46 am
by Klick
In post 2053, Dannflor wrote:Like Klick just seems to be in lockstep with you without any real unique pushes or thoughts of his own.
I think if Dannflor had any genuine interest in sorting me and thought this, the town next step would be asking any questions about any of my reads
Instead, he's starting with a conclusion and saying this with intent to sound persuasive instead of to solve
Because he doesn't need to actually solve for me
Because he's scum
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:47 am
by Vivax
Wouldn't be surprised if Klick's were the best reads in the game tbf
Probably one of the players where I'd close my eyes and chainsheep
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:50 am
by Klick
furtiveglance
Vivax
PenguinPower
fireisredsir
Malakittens
Ausuka
Andresvmb
Uncrowned
Titus
Lukewarm
Ydrasse
mastina
jjh927
Something_Smart
Roden
Dannflor
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:51 am
by Klick
In post 2078, Vivax wrote:Wouldn't be surprised if Klick's were the best reads in the game tbf
Probably one of the players where I'd close my eyes and chainsheep
I appreciate this
I wish I had any amount of confidence to actually assertively push what I believe haha
furtiveglance
Vivax
PenguinPower
fireisredsir
Malakittens
Ausuka
Andresvmb
Uncrowned
Titus
Lukewarm
Ydrasse
mastina
jjh927
Something_Smart
Roden
Dannflor
Why is Mala in the townlock? Answer without using the word vibes
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:56 am
by Ausuka
I agree with Klick's townreads except for fire and Titus
Mala I think has a meta where this is in her townrange but interested in feedback from people who know her better
She does have good vibes anyway, sorry furtive
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:57 am
by Klick
In post 2079, Klick wrote:Lukewarm
Ydrasse
mastina
jjh927
Something_Smart
It's probably worth mentioning that I think Luke/Ydrasse/mastina are all rather unlikely scum
I can see niche cases where they're scum and there's a decent chance one of these reads is inaccurate
But they're all fairly towny
In post 2067, Andresvmb wrote:Also, just from a game state perspective, the reason I haven’t been all that keen of moving away from Roden, is that I would naturally expect there to be a lot of resistance to the execution of a player if the Town were roughly moving in the right direction. And you can’t tell me that more than a few alternatives have not been offered to stop Roden from getting executed (Titus, Something_Smart, mastina, to name a few). This is purely circumstantial obviously, and it can be interpreted various different ways (a lot of Scum together pushing the wagon of a Town player stubbornly wouldn’t look that much different to this, except I don’t SR Klick, I think Ydrasse is Town, and I doubt Malakittens is insisting on me being Town just to pocket me).
What you're describing is a pretty normal gamestate for 17 players each with their own thoughts, I don't think that several people being pushed means that the largest wagon is scum. I think the D1 wagon being so unanimous (eventually) also shows that sometimes mafia is quite easily voted out
I didn’t say what you actually reacted to, so not sure what you’re talking about. The Roden wagon has been very sticky, and multiple other wagons have been constantly suggested, at times, with the specific intention of saving Roden. It’s not just that there’s a lot of wagons and people have been moving freely and whatnot, which sure that would be “normal” but that’s not what’s happened or what I feel has happened. The stickiness of the Roden wagon + the insistence by a loud minority to divert away
could be
a sign that the Town are right and the Scum are fighting to save their Partner. I just wanted to see how people are perceiving the game state.
Good question.
I'm a neurobiological correlate of a parallel dimension of sensations and experiences, you?
(But really, scum knows it's nonsense and I am vig, I only give the cred to Ausuka though, so this looks like you're trying to replicate it lol)
You think that as Scum I would try and replicate someone else’s reaction for Town cred? No, I was actually furious for a short 5 seconds until I realized you’re probably just lying. I also don’t think there’s enough power at the beginning of the game if everyone used it to the max to lower the average sufficiently to allow for 3 NKs. I think it’s a rather clever way of ensuring the Scum don’t ever find themselves in a situation where they’re faced with a lot of Town power and cannot escape their fate so to speak further down to line.
Lying on a game of forum mafia. Who would ever do that?
Wait...How does anyone get into politics..Hmm. Oh yeah. News is what someone doesn't want you to see, everything else is advertising.
Names and symbols all over the place matter, and wealth makes the rules.
On a more serious note, Dannflor is a beacon of rationality here. I sort of believe your reaction.
Uncrowned is more of a null for me at the moment, but I agree that Roden would be informative. And we got some nice wagons to analyze afterwards.
Mala is mia, hope she's recovering
I’ll just explain what I meant because you’re being condescending for literally no reason. Sure people lie in a game of mafia I mean if you want an award for stating the most obvious things you are way ahead of everyone else. No, I meant, in the context of what was being discussed and what you said, assume I am Scum, I don’t bother trying to imitate someone else’s reaction because what’s the point? What do I get? Instead, I either push you there thinking you rescinding your claim opens an avenue of attack. Or I defend you because I think that’ll make me look better. I just felt like smashing you over the head instead. And then I realized it wasn’t worth the effort.
Mala occasionally pops in with posts that I entirely believe are genuine scumhunting; from any player they might not look that special but I think Mala!scum wouldn't have reads that look as real as Mala's reads do. In contrast, I think a lot of her posts have explicitly not been made with the goal of getting the game at large to townread her (which is what her goal would be if she were scum).
181 - I believe the intent of this post is actually just to express an Andre townread, and not to just look like she's scumhunting
She doesn't give two shits about the early suspicion on Ircher because Ircher isn't her buddy and she doesn't care what Ircher's alignment is for a while
I don‘t know, maybe Ydrasse for third
But I‘m never limming Roden today I think after re-ISOing.
This extremely obstinate defense almost always comes from town in my experience. Especially when it‘s so genuinely egocentrist at times (not negatively connotated as it‘s a townie process)
Id townbin andres
This is def his row. Meta
What is she even trying to accomplish with this content if she's scum, she already said this. She just wants her most confident read in town-Andres to be heard because she's town
I believed her 331 about me as well, I could see her having that take. Not as strong as the other ones, but it did contribute to solidifying the read.
All in all, Mala just wants to solve and that seems obvious to me from reading her posts.
Also, vibes
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:28 am
by Lukewarm
In post 2058, Ausuka wrote:Hmm, I mean, it's possible that I'm onto literally nothing here. I think it'd help if you tell me how you think scum in general tend to think about the game and their partners in particular? It doesn't have to be too long.
I am not 100% sure what you are asking, because "how scum think about the game" Is not something that you can really answer with an answer that is not too long. When I am scum, my thoughts on the game state are constantly shifting, so hard to define. I don't think how scum act "in general" is super useful metric, because individual situations call for individual responses - Also shifts away from how different people play scum. For example, I don't think I have the guts to put all 3 of my scum partners right in a row in the bottom of my scum reads (or town reads for that matter), but I have seen multiple other people do exactly that (Mastina and Not Known 15 off the top of my head)
Spoiler: Most basic goals being
Blending in. A Large portion of your energy goes to just, looking like you would look if you were town.
Identifying threats - those are the night kill targets.
Identifying the Mislim pool - hoping they get eliminated with out you looking like scum on their flip. So your arguments have to be reasonable, and you probably want to be the 2nd or 3rd loudest voice calling for their head, not the first person people think of when the flip comes back town.
Making yourself look not partnered with your partners, and to look partnered with townies.
----
You asked for partners in particular, and like I said the end goal is to not looked partnered and purposefully treating each partner differently such that on one flip, it does not make the other obvious.
Planting your selves loudly on opposite ends of arguments is decent for this. In my last scum game, I was one of the loudest voices in favor of mass claim, and my partner was one of the loudest voices against mass claim. The idea being to look like they were a part of a scum team afraid of being outed in a mass claim, and I was a part of a scum team that thought they needed the PRs outed. So if one of us flipped, the other would appear to not make sense in the same scum team.
----
All of that is unrelated to my point. Because I am talking about how scum would interact with a Town vig tunneled on a Townie. Like that is the dream scenario for scum wrt to a vig. I don't think that scum go out of their way to mess that up.
(I am aware that this appears to have already happened, but in reference to when the posts were made) The moment the vig comes out of that tunnel is the moment he becomes a threat to the scum team again.
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:33 am
by Lukewarm
If you guys kill Roden, and he flips town, I will be insufferable until we kill Titus. just so you know.
If you kill Roden and he flips scum, I will be sufficiently shamed. All shame upon me, yada yada
OR, we just skip that step and kill titus now!
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:35 am
by Klick
Luke can you tell me why Roden's town or otherwise point me to where you already said why Roden's town
Good question.
I'm a neurobiological correlate of a parallel dimension of sensations and experiences, you?
(But really, scum knows it's nonsense and I am vig, I only give the cred to Ausuka though, so this looks like you're trying to replicate it lol)
You think that as Scum I would try and replicate someone else’s reaction for Town cred? No, I was actually furious for a short 5 seconds until I realized you’re probably just lying. I also don’t think there’s enough power at the beginning of the game if everyone used it to the max to lower the average sufficiently to allow for 3 NKs. I think it’s a rather clever way of ensuring the Scum don’t ever find themselves in a situation where they’re faced with a lot of Town power and cannot escape their fate so to speak further down to line.
Lying on a game of forum mafia. Who would ever do that?
Wait...How does anyone get into politics..Hmm. Oh yeah. News is what someone doesn't want you to see, everything else is advertising.
Names and symbols all over the place matter, and wealth makes the rules.
On a more serious note, Dannflor is a beacon of rationality here. I sort of believe your reaction.
Uncrowned is more of a null for me at the moment, but I agree that Roden would be informative. And we got some nice wagons to analyze afterwards.
Mala is mia, hope she's recovering
I’ll just explain what I meant because you’re being condescending for literally no reason. Sure people lie in a game of mafia I mean if you want an award for stating the most obvious things you are way ahead of everyone else. No, I meant, in the context of what was being discussed and what you said, assume I am Scum, I don’t bother trying to imitate someone else’s reaction because what’s the point? What do I get? Instead, I either push you there thinking you rescinding your claim opens an avenue of attack. Or I defend you because I think that’ll make me look better. I just felt like smashing you over the head instead. And then I realized it wasn’t worth the effort.
I don't think I was being condescending. Rather, mirroring. You have tonally always approached me aggressively in this game, so you're playing to expect aggression back. If I don't play into it, that could make me mafia. If I do, then I do what you want.
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:48 am
by Lukewarm
In post 2090, Klick wrote:Luke can you tell me why Roden's town or otherwise point me to where you already said why Roden's town
I have mentioned a few times that I felt like his interaction with Ausuka reeked of tvt to me.
I also feel like the level of obstinance Roden had with claiming his role is more likely to be town then scum.
I think that the most succinct reason is probably this:
Even if we make the leap to say that no member of the scum team realized that a fake claim should probably have growing percentage costs, I just don't think that there is a world where scum!Roden, who is able to say what ever the hell he wants about his fake claimed role, says that the modifier costs 0%.
Like, it would have been so *easy* to just say that it is 5%. 5% no modifier, 10% with it. Small, easily palatable numbers.
Given the context of his earlier posts, in what world does scum!Roden think that this answer is going to do anything but hurt him? Like this is an actively self sabotaging answer when scum can give any answer they want
I just think that the much more plausible answer is that that is just the truth.
furtiveglance
Vivax
PenguinPower
fireisredsir
Malakittens
Ausuka
Andresvmb
Uncrowned
Titus
Lukewarm
Ydrasse
mastina
jjh927
Something_Smart
Roden
Dannflor
I can work with this. It's not perfect but fine for today but I'm never voting mastina unless something drastic changes.
SS Roden Dannfloor jjh are all people who I would vote, the latter two with some reluctance as they could town it up with time.
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:57 am
by Titus
In post 2092, Lukewarm wrote:Given the context of his earlier posts, in what world does scum!Roden think that this answer is going to do anything but hurt him? Like this is an actively self sabotaging answer when scum can give any answer they want
Wifom. Fake posts are posted.
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:58 am
by Klick
mastina
I'm interested in hearing if you have any thoughts about 2092
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:59 am
by Klick
UNVOTE:
Don't want a hammer while I reevaluate Roden for a little bit
In post 2092, Lukewarm wrote:Given the context of his earlier posts, in what world does scum!Roden think that this answer is going to do anything but hurt him? Like this is an actively self sabotaging answer when scum can give any answer they want
Wifom. Fake posts are posted.
Just shouting wifom is a cop out. Scum can do literally anything, the point is which is more likely.
I just don't think it is very likely at all, that given the situation that he was in, he would take that avenue as scum. And therefore, it being the truth is the more likely reality we live in.
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:03 am
by Lukewarm
Like, is it *possible* scum could do something, the answer is always yes. Scum can do literally anything.
But that is not the game we play.
Its is it more *likely* that it came from scum or town.
In post 2092, Lukewarm wrote:Given the context of his earlier posts, in what world does scum!Roden think that this answer is going to do anything but hurt him? Like this is an actively self sabotaging answer when scum can give any answer they want
Wifom. Fake posts are posted.
Just shouting wifom is a cop out. Scum can do literally anything, the point is which is more likely.
I just don't think it is very likely at all, that given the situation that he was in, he would take that avenue as scum. And therefore, it being the truth is the more likely reality we live in.
You don't think it's likely at all, because that fits your worldview.
Scum players and scum teams can and do have widely varying reactions. Maybe it's dead in water, maybe it's as little info as possible, maybe the amount wouldn't make sense, maybe the whole role is a fiction, maybe he's scum truth telling
Maybe Roden is town lying
Maybe he's telling the truth and is town
Whatever he said serves his purposes. As far as I know, there's no mech for any of it.
Arguing why that claim in particular supposes things that can't be known (if town).