VPBaltar wrote:MoI, do you feel this is a fair characterization? I mean, it doesn't take much to understand Furc's play, so I'd like to know if you feel like you do understand what his style is?
I address this later on with VV but I’ll say it here.
This is an absolutely correct assessment of my perception. Furc is a VI and I don’t think I obscured my view on Day 1.
When he’s Town he’s not going to be a net benefit in scum-hunting. When he’s scum he’s going to slide by on his VI playstyle which people will defend. In either case he’s an anchor chained solidly to Town’s chances at victory. The longer he lasts in a game this size the more he drags it down to Hell.
Look at his ISO for Days 1 and 2 and honestly ask yourself if you disagreed. A short list of reasons why my opinion hasn’t changed –
1. Didn’t bother to actually think about his N0 action.
2. Constantly changing opinion – Fate is Town, Fate is Cult, Fate is Town.
3. Lack of reliable scum-hunting. His opinions on who is Cult generally revolve around whoever challenges his play or opinions.
I could go on to demonstrate numerous radical changes of opinion on all sorts of matters. And he’s pretty much called half the playerlist scum at one point or another.
Were this a 12 person game I wouldn’t have bothered going after him early. There is little room for error in that environment. In large games Town has significantly more wiggle room. Especially since we know there is only one Cult faction and N1 has given strong evidence that the Murderer route has been discounted as opposed to SAII (1 murder N1 as opposed to 4).
VPBaltar wrote:1) The ungodly tunnel on Furc like it was his day job.
I think I’ve clearly indicated above my opinion on Furc. If you want to call what is in effect a Policy push on an absolutely useless player (IMO) scummy that’s your call. Given the end of Clash of Kings I know that you know exactly why I don’t want VI players around at endgame. The fact that you are specifically going out of your way to ignore your direct knowledge gives me pause.
VPBaltar wrote:3) RC wagon rolls up at the end of the day and MoI is an eager beaver to jump on that. We get a fancy pants iso of RC in 1171. I don't know, but I always find these post by post isos to be kind of scummy because people seem to rarely ever give the person a fair shake when doing them. I mean, seriously go back and read MoI's PBPA of RC. Essentially 90 percent of RCs posts are called scummy or fluff. I find this quite over the top by any measure. I mean, maybe I'm wrong and RC will flip scum, but I just find this kind of rhetoric excessive and unlikely to come from town. That of course, is sort of ironic, since Magna seems fond of attacking RC, Vas and others for their rhetorical statements. Now before Magna comes in and says 'ZOMG VAS DID IT TO ME TOOOOO,' yes I realize he did. I think he was being over the top as well, but I also feel like you were winding him up with your antagonism from his original points on you. I still find it scummy regardless, but yours on RC is worse because nothing provoked it other than you trying to trump up your vote.
This whole point is carefully fabricated bullshit. Had you read my ISO you would have seen my questions and criticisms of RC’s play throughout the Day BEFORE the RC wagon formed. Since you didn’t here are the ISOs for you (8,17,18 ). Yet somehow you are attempting to portray my suspicion of RC as fabricated out of mid-air. Both incorrect and scumtastic.
I also love that point 2 and 4 (which I’m not bothering to address directly as they say basically ‘VP’s opinion of this is scummy’, which I disagree with) amount to ‘I’m not scum-hunting’ yet when I put together a case on RC it’s scummy. Lovely. Decide which direction you want to push VP.
AV wrote:MoI - do you think Benmage is more likely cult or investigator?
At this point I’m undecided. Asking me yesterday before Night and I would have said most likely Investigator. I can see his personal grudge with Fate overriding any Town sense he had. When he didn’t follow through and kill the rendered useless Fate last night and ‘prove’ his Town cred it shoved me back into the ‘Benmage is Unknown’ category, especially in light of his epic backtrack on his reasoning for stalking in the first place. The fact that he didn’t follow through gives me pause to consider he might be cult playing a very ballys / stupid gambit. He has managed to basically derail the conversation each day with his declarations. The longer this cluster-f with him goes the more I question him as investigator. Fate’s flip will also help shape my opinion. Benmage being Investigator would be more or less solidified if Fate flips Cult.
Trilobyte wrote:This is just all kinds of weak sauce. You've played with me and you've played with Zach we are two quite different styles of player so even in a hydra the posting styles are going to be different. I have signed all of my posts bar a couple where I forgot, OJ has signed all her posts it doesn't take a math wiz to realize who made the others. You don't explain why it is odd and seem to be suggesting it was scummy (or else why bother bringing it up?) It just feels like a weak attempt at mud slinging.
Right back at you Sotty. Your entire argument as to why I’m scum is ‘gut’ and filled with no support – weak sauce as you say. I don’t like the direction your arguments have taken because they very much remind me of your Newbie scum game. Your statement above is further indicative. Lots of backhanded insults (re knowing who posted) and accusations – very disproporatiate to the attention I’ve give you. So, yeah, chalk me up for a similar ‘gut’ scum-read on you.
The fact that you don't bother to do anything case wise but latch on with a "I love VP's case" when one is posted strengthens my suspicions.
Benmage wrote:MoI is my number one suspicion at the moment, every post is so illogical.
Here’s a clue Ben – disagreeing with your play isn’t bad logic. Sorry to burst your bubble but it isn’t. Care to provide quotes of my ‘illogical’ posts as opposed to making unsubstantiated accusations as usual?
Benmage wrote:I like tnm's last post. When I am at a computer I will explain why I also find kunk likely scum.
Of course you like TNM’s post he agrees with your position
I’m waiting for any sort of scum-hunting and explanation why any of your ‘candidates’ are scum. How about it? You know, actually scum-hunting as opposed to calling those who don’t follow your anti-Town play blindly scum.
VV wrote:No claims here. I want you dead now though, so that I don't have to get your scummy blood in mah clothes.
Actually you want me dead because I hurt your pride. That’s ok. I accept you can’t disconnect your personal pride from logically assessing the game.
VV wrote:VOTE MAGNA. FOR GREATER JUSTICE. (And then we can get rid of Kunkscum right after, ohh yeaahh.)
Ah, another batch of Appealing to Repeition, rhetoric, and an added dash of stupid internet meme. Good times.
VV wrote:That was not the case, I had a full blown case revealing that MoI's INTENTIONS in thread are scummy in nature, and that was me attempting to convince people and my interpretations that his attacks on Furcolow are fail attempts to look like he's scumhunting when he is not(because he's scum etc.).
So you are back to ‘intentions’ again, which you abandoned the first time for ‘He’s scum because he’s not showing scum-tells’ at the end of Day 1. Yawn. When you have something noteworthly let me know.
VV wrote:That quote is, I admit, rhetoric.
You have to admit it. It’s all you do …
VV wrote:
Nice try scum. Kunkstar lynch after we are done with MoI, k.
Nice … lining up lynches. Either classic scum play or more example of fail-Town VV traditional play.
VV wrote:MoI has a lot of experience with Furc. He knows that Furc is a derpy player. However he is incessant in his attacks despite knowledge of Furc's play. He didn't even attempt to figure out Furc's alignment and just kept calling him scum for shits and giggles. I found the bullshit in his attacks.
Add that he cares more about his own image than figuring other people out = MoI is SCUM SCUM SCUM.
I do know Furc is a derpy players. Which is why he needs to be eliminated. Allowing VI’s into endgame situations is VERY STUPID Town play in a large game. It allows, I don’t know, Mafia in a horrible PoE situation to go on to win when they have no rights to do so (see Clash of Kings as a perfect example).
Furc is not going to win this game for Town. The Cult are not going to kill him because he’s derpy. Call it a Policy lynch if you wish. This early in the game it’s better to eliminate the landmines when Town has breathing room than later when it cost Town the game.
And look, yet more rhetoric.
VV wrote:PS. Why are there so many votes on Fate's dispatch? Aren't we minimizing the body count to prevent Cult getting dust? I thought this has already been discussed.
Slight FOS on everyone at the wagon. THERE BE SCUMZ THERE TOO. (Specifically MoI but you get the drill.)
Look, I’m so Town it hurts. I’m very worried about Corpse Dust because it would make 1 kill by the Cult more successful despite the fact that we have SO MANY PLAYERS all Town can’t possibly be adequately protected anyway.
Here VV is churning desperately for Town cred. Scumtastic.
VOTE: VV
Because I can.
