Mini 2230: Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night: Game Over

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

pagetop?

[Lukewarm]

LLD and annie, do you think luke is town?

i feel like the people i would like to ask are either scum or living on another planet this game.

bulge here

luke is my strongest scumread. I doubt notty feels as strongly but we haven't really talked yet today, I've been trying to power thru reading today with as few preventable distractions (read: non-irl stuff) as possible.

when pressed about the fact he hasn't been solving or playing to his town meta, luke reacts with 1) confusion and/or 2) examples from other games. his play this game has been [uncharacteristically*] defensive. his claims of playing this game with a drive to solve amount to a whole lot of Lukewarm vs The World. and I'm pretty sure you are the only(?) slot up to bat for him.

* but meta is not as core to this read as I might be making it out to be

You were the one who was bringing up other games, and I was responding to your meta points....

Spoiler: How you approached the conversation with me

you did a spend a good while focusing on that one medea post, that's more my concern than the vote itself. something I've admired about your townplay before is your ability to focus on what's important while not losing sight of the big picture. here you're honing in on stuff i don't think matters enough to drag on as long as it has and I haven't seen as much of a holistic approach as I might expect from what I know of your town play.

looking back now at both games we've played together, you were catching up in both (replacement in 2069 and missed d1 in tarot) so that could factor into what i'm seeing/not seeing. but in both cases (and extending past the catchup period) you were still able to maintain a healthy overall outlook on the game. I could see in your post progression where you were in your reading, I could see where your thoughts and observations were coming from every time. here it's like you wait and then react, like moving onto the next step. it feels to me like with the one PA post in particular had you painting yourself into a corner, initially unable to produce content as wide-spanning as your town play, and then locked into a certain trajectory after leaning too heavily on the one issue. and like, with what you were saying about nerves in this game, which I'm taking at face value no matter your alignment, that lines up to me.

I guess the real difference I'm trying to get at luke is that in the situations you referenced, you were pushing scum for misplays. that's what I mean by focused on the right things. i'm not saying "scum luke hones in and town luke doesn't". I just think you're focusing on pointless bull and coming off somewhat defensive in the process, and it's jarring to me.

You started the conversation by talking about meta from my other games, and I responded by talking about my other games....

You say that I am not solving, but actually I think you just don't like the way I have been solving, which is not the same thing.

Off the top of my head, here are times that I can think of where I was actively asking question that I thought would help me sort a player.

Spoiler: Here is me actively trying to sort Penguin

Luke is Medea town or scum and why

Cabd is hard to read, but I guess lean scum?

This might just be omgus, but am not liking his 270.

Cabd seems to think that I am an easy person to read if Ceph's game is any indication, so the fact that he appears to be outsourcing the read to Dunn instead of talking to me / figuring me out himself seems suspicious to me.

I am on board with the "my wife won't let me give out reads" being a strange stance

Luke is Medea town or scum and why

Cabd is hard to read, but I guess lean scum?

This might just be omgus, but am not liking his 270.

Cabd seems to think that I am an easy person to read if Ceph's game is any indication, so the fact that he appears to be outsourcing the read to Dunn instead of talking to me / figuring me out himself seems suspicious to me.

I am on board with the "my wife won't let me give out reads" being a strange stance

I miss incisive Lukewarm that I've spectated elsewhere.

--PA

JFC

--PA, who is also allowed to fucking post in this game and even has the damn courtesy to sign

Oh. missed the sign on that one.

Well, I will change it around then. Why were you asking dunn about his read on me, instead of asking Cabd?

I feel like I would trust town!cabd to get an accurate read on me more quickly then Dunn -- and I am absent from your iso prior to that post

I don't like the way Luke is pushing the "outsource read on me" angle

My point was that I don't think that Cabd's read on me would ever be influenced by your read on me (at the time my brain said that came from cabd), so I questioned why they singled in on me that way in your list of 5 names.

It was also phrased in such a way that slightly agreed with a scum read, like they were encouraging you to dig into it.

So, when asking why they made that post, scum trying to egg a townie into leading a push / wagon on someone comes to mind

Basically, it's not entirely about you, and LOL forever at the idea of me outsourcing reads.

To be clear, my point was that you would NOT outsource a read. I was never implying that that is what you were doing.

But the phrasing around it. you did not just ask him to go into detail about his read, which I would expect if you were trying to get a better feel for Dunn, and whether his read on me was genuine.

It was the asking about the read, while also soft agreeing with it that seemed strange.

Like I said, it looked more designed to egg dunn into pushing me then anything else

Do you think Dunn is a player inclined to be led around by the nose? And why the jump to characterizing a request for another player's read on a third person as outsourcing then? Given that he also doesn't feel good about us, I'm hardly likely to take him as gospel.

--PA

You are thinking about it backwards.

270 is structured as "dunn talk to me about Lukewarm" followed by weak reasons you might be concerned about me. Vague suspicions without actually saying that you thought I was leaning scum or anything.

Given that structure, it looks like you are either

1) Suspicious of me, and are looking to Dunn to confirm your suspicions (ie outsourceing the read) or

2) Trying to help build up dunn's scum read, so he would push it more.

I don't think that you or cabd would ever do 1, which left me suspicious that it was 2

Oh, and VOTE: Medea

Spoiler: Here is me actively trying to see if Cabd perspective slipped

Cabd, what is your read on ffery?

I was asking to dig into a very specific thing that looked a bit inconsistent. You choosing not to answer and instead insult is strange

@ffery, what is cabd's "stated" read on you?

@ffery, what is cabd's "stated" read on you?

If someone role claimed to you and only you in a game, what would you assume their read is?

Spread about 10 lbs of wifom icing on that cake.

See, I gathered that if he really was town, then you would need to be a town read at the time when they claimed to you.

But then I thought that 340 was shade at you for claiming to need more information, ie, his read was changing, especially given his 245 indicating that his read on you was not set in stone.

Maybe I just misread the intent of 340 then. The inconsistency has resolved itself

Spoiler: Me trying to work out Manatee's thought process to see if it was genuine

theres kind of a disconnect between what im saying and what im thinking often which is just frustrating bc its understandable why i get in shit for it but i don't know how to communicate how i miscommunicated. when i wrote "votes" on medea head manatee was really just thinking abt lukewarm

Exactly my vote (and subsequent unvote) was enough for you to dismiss the whole wagon as tainted, and then give your null read a town read?

Medea - nullish.
-
i guess bc i think some votes on them are scummy i'd default town

theres kind of a disconnect between what im saying and what im thinking often which is just frustrating bc its understandable why i get in shit for it but i don't know how to communicate how i miscommunicated. when i wrote "votes" on medea head manatee was really just thinking abt lukewarm

Exactly my vote (and subsequent unvote) was enough for you to dismiss the whole wagon as tainted, and then give your null read a town read?

Medea - nullish.
-
i guess bc i think some votes on them are scummy i'd default town

Like, if I make this change to match what you just said, this is what you think about Medea?

Medea - nullish.
-
i guess bc i think

some

Luke's

vote on them

are

is

scummy i'd default town

VOTE: Manatee

Spoiler: Me trying to sort if Sleez's suspicions on me were genuine or not

VOTE: Lukewarm

Least comfortable vote on Medea, so much that even himself couldn't believe it. . Fraudulent behavior.

What does this mean?

VOTE: Lukewarm

Least comfortable vote on Medea, so much that even himself couldn't believe it. . Fraudulent behavior.

What does this mean?

You know what it means. This isn't a riddle for you to figure out, unless you're new usually your vote is meant to have purpose. Yet it didn't, and nothing you say to me feels like it comes from a process where you're concerned about reads.

I am trying to figure out what you mean by saying least comfortable. That you are least comfortable with my vote of all of the votes? Or that I am the person least comfortable voting them?

Also, not sure what you mean when you say that I don't believe it.

I am almost certain you know what I'm saying and you think being befuddled could make people townread you.

I mean, I do have a guess. But I would rather you say it yourself in your own words, instead of me feeding your own opinion to you

And those are just the ones that lasted for a few exchanges.

In addition to the above, I have been slowly building up town reads on players like Dunn, the dragons, unwnd, notty, ffery, bell, more recently LLD. (Link to my town cases on ffery and notty)

I am here. I am sorting. But also yeah, I am responding to people's suspicions on me.

You my say that it is just woe is me, but actually each of those times that I linked above, when I was actively trying to dig in to sort someone, it resulted in someone turning around and snapping / attack me. I actually think that your slot has shaded me for 3 of the 4 above digs. So you guys are both attacking me for digging in, but also saying that I am not doing it at all. It feels like you are selectively reading my posts, and I think I would snap vote you right now if you were not sharing a slot with Notty

Even with that, you are making me doubt your slot. I would ask anyone to sift through annie's iso, and look for what bulge specifically has commented on. The only things I have seen him talk about were me and manatee. And there has been a lot more going on this game...

[Lady Lambdadelta]

UNVOTE:

[Lukewarm]

2070 is the only post I have seen since the last time I was on. It was the exact post that popped up when I logged on, and I spent a while hunting for quotes.

I will be catching up now

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if Bell is scum in this game I'm going to make him a diploma, frame it, and mail it to him.

I doubt he's scum tho so I won't have to do that cuz I'm lazy.

[Annie Edison]

It keeps you away from each other and you're aggressively sorting. This kind of wedge makes more sense to me from a TVS perspective.

But whatever.

-Bell

I mean at this point it’s game health.

Go read what Medea linked later. It’s bad. At the very least I’m leaving it sit to not monopolize today, we can come back to it later if we don’t have a red flip yet.

[ManateeGal]

@Annie

I'd say your AA9 vote is pretty good for right now. I haven't been a huge fan of her so far so I'd like to see how she responds to the pressure of votes. Im ok with your vote as is

I myself am keeping my vote on luke for reasons i outlined in my reread, further ideas will be fleshed out when i finish rereading later.

I have a problem with your post manatee. Not long ago you mentioned my posts were genuine and now you're saying annie vote one was pretty good but yourself didn't vote me.

what is your agenda here? if you strongly believe luke is scum. why not ask annie to vote for luke. How is her vote on was right and your vote on luke is correct when you obviously scum read luke more than me. I don't see any rationale here!

I think my favorite part of reading that is she had the audacity to call me mean here and I see her ISO there

ninja-
yeah its really bad

I called myself obama

Youre mean as a bull dear! get over it.

I didnt feel like i was in a place to be asking others to vote luke when i hadnt fleshed out my case on him and wasnt planning to do so immedeately

[ArcAngel9]

Annie Edison (notscience/The Bulge)

- my read on them is changed, not because they backed off on my case but more to do with the mindset they have come from. If Annie is mafia, they would want to hang on to my elimination regardless.

Dunnstral

My earlier read on them was a town but i don't see much from them anymore. Ceph is usually a pro-scum player and i didn't get that vibe from them.

Lady Lambdadelta

I honestly dislike their attitude toward how i felt about their signal posts. I am not against selective mutism but it is not helping me get some concrete inputs from them.

Lukewarm

i had a hard time reading him, my earlier read was null but this game doesn't sound like a town luke. He is leaning scum to me now!

ManateeGal

Manatee is my newly developed scum read, they started off saying that my initial posts were genuine and in another post, they pointed my opening was bad. they were provoking annie to continue to keep their vote on me but he was voting luke.

Medea the Alien (cabd/penguin_alien)

I have said my reasons before. Medea is my strong town read.

PookyTheMagicalBear

I initially read pooky as town but the latest posts are not giving me the same vibes.

unwnd Sleez

unwnd is town for the reasons i have mentioned about sleez.

Snarky fishes (Bell/fferyllt)

logical and unorthodox approach. lean town for me.

Spiffeh

this is another slot that my reading is changing but i am still scum reading them due to how they played in the early day phase.

Titus

Although her earlier posts looked town but they seemed to be picking up well on pressure which concerns a bit.

[Medea the Alien]

Oh my.

[ArcAngel9]

@Annie

I'd say your AA9 vote is pretty good for right now. I haven't been a huge fan of her so far so I'd like to see how she responds to the pressure of votes. Im ok with your vote as is

I myself am keeping my vote on luke for reasons i outlined in my reread, further ideas will be fleshed out when i finish rereading later.

I have a problem with your post manatee. Not long ago you mentioned my posts were genuine and now you're saying annie vote one was pretty good but yourself didn't vote me.

what is your agenda here? if you strongly believe luke is scum. why not ask annie to vote for luke. How is her vote on was right and your vote on luke is correct when you obviously scum read luke more than me. I don't see any rationale here!

I think my favorite part of reading that is she had the audacity to call me mean here and I see her ISO there

ninja-
yeah its really bad

I called myself obama

Youre mean as a bull dear! get over it.

I didnt feel like i was in a place to be asking others to vote luke when i hadnt fleshed out my case on him and wasnt planning to do so immedeately

Explain your contradiction on my read.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm proud of my boy Spiffs for finally cracking the top 14.

[Lukewarm]

@Annie, The reason why I played it the way I did is that it leaves scum with no good options.

If we shard me and then I get enough shards to turn demonic, I am removed from the elimination pool.

However, by not sharding me after I get sharded today, they are suggesting they want me in the elimination pool which indirectly suggests I am town.

The only move for them is to argue that I am not an FN to try and eliminate me before I get enough shards to become a demon. It forces them to tunnel me.

If they do decide to demon me and then roleblock me, then that's resources that aren't spent on our investigates which means they get shots off. Plus, they'd risk being tracked and or watched as I'd be an ideal target for such investigations if they occurred.

If they tried to kill me, they kill in the miselimination pool rather than obvtown who actually can lead the game.

There's no chance I draw a CC either as scum would not pick a 1 v 1.

Their only move is to FoS and vote me. Thus, Slayer's gambit is the move.

I want to say that this looks like a town Titus plan

[Medea the Alien]

AA9, you called out scum-Titus in your recent game, Large Normal 234. Any thoughts on that? I'm not quite understanding why her picking up well under pressure concerns you.

--PA

[ManateeGal]

Cool.

I read the Manatee's reads list. My primary objection with it is that we're in the "I have not bothered reading the person with 4x the number of posts I've made - here's a null read"

im on a vacation. im happy to carve out time to solve but theres aditionally a limit on it. reading and analyzing an iso 4x longer then mine takes time especially when i do not have a read beforehand. i specifically stated i want to sort that pile but there are things outside of this game that i'd like to enjoy

[Here There Be Dragons]

Annie Edison (notscience/The Bulge)

- my read on them is changed, not because they backed off on my case but more to do with the mindset they have come from. If Annie is mafia, they would want to hang on to my elimination regardless.

Dunnstral

My earlier read on them was a town but i don't see much from them anymore. Ceph is usually a pro-scum player and i didn't get that vibe from them.

Lady Lambdadelta

I honestly dislike their attitude toward how i felt about their signal posts. I am not against selective mutism but it is not helping me get some concrete inputs from them.

Lukewarm

i had a hard time reading him, my earlier read was null but this game doesn't sound like a town luke. He is leaning scum to me now!

ManateeGal

Manatee is my newly developed scum read, they started off saying that my initial posts were genuine and in another post, they pointed my opening was bad. they were provoking annie to continue to keep their vote on me but he was voting luke.

Medea the Alien (cabd/penguin_alien)

I have said my reasons before. Medea is my strong town read.

PookyTheMagicalBear

I initially read pooky as town but the latest posts are not giving me the same vibes.

unwnd Sleez

unwnd is town for the reasons i have mentioned about sleez.

Snarky fishes (Bell/fferyllt)

logical and unorthodox approach. lean town for me.

Spiffeh

this is another slot that my reading is changing but i am still scum reading them due to how they played in the early day phase.

Titus

Although her earlier posts looked town but they seemed to be picking up well on pressure which concerns a bit.

what about us

~std

[Lukewarm]

I'm not sure what you mean by a 1-sharder. We should all be one-sharders.

My role PM mentions nothing about the shard amount needed. I'm a default sharder, whatever that means.

Actually, the above imply that she needs 1 shard
The below implies that she needs 2

However, by not sharding me after I get sharded today, they are suggesting they want me in the elimination pool which indirectly suggests I am town.

The only move for them is to argue that I am not an FN to try and eliminate me before I get enough shards to become a demon. It forces them to tunnel me.

If they do decide to demon me and then roleblock me

What keeps scum Titus from claiming to have never received a second shard from scum

Investigators and demonic announcements.

But then back to saying that she only needed 1

I'm not sure what you mean by a 1-sharder. We should all be one-sharders.

What did this mean?

I was supposing everyone only needed one shard to be demonic, since my role PM didn't say. There's talk of two shards being needed though.

@Titus, can you go over the parts of your plan that I quoted from 2013 and 2023, and explain how they made sense if you thought you only needed 1 shard to demonize?

[ArcAngel9]

AA9, you called out scum-Titus in your recent game, Large Normal 234. Any thoughts on that? I'm not quite understanding why her picking up well under pressure concerns you.

--PA

Titus tried to buddy up with me to push on nero, i find that very scummy. but of course nobody listened to me because i wasn't very active.
Titus tried to do the same by calling me town here and they became active only after the peer pressure. It does ring the bell. A good possibility of being scum.

[ManateeGal]

ManateeGal

Manatee is my newly developed scum read, they started off saying that my initial posts were genuine and in another post, they pointed my opening was bad. they were provoking annie to continue to keep their vote on me but

he

was voting luke.

who is he?

i feel like youre not understanding perspective switches fundementally?

[ArcAngel9]

I'm not sure what you mean by a 1-sharder. We should all be one-sharders.

My role PM mentions nothing about the shard amount needed. I'm a default sharder, whatever that means.

Actually, the above imply that she needs 1 shard
The below implies that she needs 2

However, by not sharding me after I get sharded today, they are suggesting they want me in the elimination pool which indirectly suggests I am town.

The only move for them is to argue that I am not an FN to try and eliminate me before I get enough shards to become a demon. It forces them to tunnel me.

If they do decide to demon me and then roleblock me

What keeps scum Titus from claiming to have never received a second shard from scum

Investigators and demonic announcements.

But then back to saying that she only needed 1

I'm not sure what you mean by a 1-sharder. We should all be one-sharders.

What did this mean?

I was supposing everyone only needed one shard to be demonic, since my role PM didn't say. There's talk of two shards being needed though.

@Titus, can you go over the parts of your plan that I quoted from 2013 and 2023, and explain how they made sense if you thought you only needed 1 shard to demonize?

Oh lord, i mixed up you with the dunstral. that note was meant for you.

Dunnstral doesnt look very town to me. Anyone else feel they are scum?

[ArcAngel9]

ManateeGal

Manatee is my newly developed scum read, they started off saying that my initial posts were genuine and in another post, they pointed my opening was bad. they were provoking annie to continue to keep their vote on me but

he

was voting luke.

who is he?

i feel like youre not understanding perspective switches fundementally?

Apologies for getting your pronoun wrong. I meant you voted luke and forcing annie to keep their vote on me doesn't sit well with me. And your initial posts about me contradict as well.

[Snarky Fishes]

Cool.

I read the Manatee's reads list. My primary objection with it is that we're in the "I have not bothered reading the person with 4x the number of posts I've made - here's a null read"

im on a vacation. im happy to carve out time to solve but theres aditionally a limit on it. reading and analyzing an iso 4x longer then mine takes time especially when i do not have a read beforehand. i specifically stated i want to sort that pile but there are things outside of this game that i'd like to enjoy

…do you have a policy of not forming an opinion on a player unless you iso them and read all of their posts?

-bell

[ManateeGal]

Cool.

I read the Manatee's reads list. My primary objection with it is that we're in the "I have not bothered reading the person with 4x the number of posts I've made - here's a null read"

im on a vacation. im happy to carve out time to solve but theres aditionally a limit on it. reading and analyzing an iso 4x longer then mine takes time especially when i do not have a read beforehand. i specifically stated i want to sort that pile but there are things outside of this game that i'd like to enjoy

…do you have a policy of not forming an opinion on a player unless you iso them and read all of their posts?

-bell

i dont have a read on you at alk right now

[ManateeGal]

ofc i have opinions but i havent sorted through them to develop a read

[Lukewarm]

If we shard me and then I get enough shards to turn demonic

, I am removed from the elimination pool.

However, by not sharding me after I get sharded today

, they are suggesting they want me in the elimination pool which indirectly suggests I am town.

I was supposing everyone only needed one shard to be demonic, since my role PM didn't say.

@Titus.

Specifically this. If you thought that you only needed 1 shard to turn demonic, what did you mean by "If we shard me and then I get enough shards to turn demonic" and what did you mean by if the scum team does "not shard me after I get sharded today" given you thought you only needed 1 shard to turn demonic?

What were you supposing wrt to the scum team giving you more shards, after you had already turned demonic?

[ManateeGal]

AND as im sure youve noticed presenting my unpolished thoughts doesnt turn out well for me