Look, I'm not saying Dunnstral's some savant at reading me by any means, but I feel like there's definitely double digits amount of games played, and controlling gamestate/manipulative, catch phrasing repeating things is just come on level of that I'm starting to think there's no way scum would be this dense about it.
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:40 pm
by Flavor Leaf
My main reason for the turn on Well Done was I just really don't believe someone could play in 10+ games with me over the years, and not know that about my personality.
Maybe it's just me being self-centered or what have you, but even if I am I still think that's a stretch.
That 10+ games is me being conservative about it.
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:01 pm
by MonkeyMan576
Do you ever think that being self centered might be anti-productive to town if you are town, Flavor Leaf?
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:03 pm
by Flavor Leaf
In post 2102, MonkeyMan576 wrote:Do you ever think that being self centered might be anti-productive to town if you are town, Flavor Leaf?
Yes and no. There's definitely pros and cons.
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:04 pm
by Flavor Leaf
And just because I talk myself up doesn't mean I'm not gonna talk other people up as well.
I'm a big fan of self admiration and positive thinking about oneself.
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:09 pm
by Flavor Leaf
For instance, you have good gut scum reads.
Titus has one of the best analytical and out of the box solving out there.
Catboi's incredibly calm and smooth.
Enchant's trolly, but genuine, and late game has the ability to get super obv townie.
Malcolm's ability level of analysis on scenarios are wild.
Mastina's perfected her playstyle to an extreme with a very powerful MaFilosophy.
Menalque's ability to defend and rally momentum against a main wagon while coming across as town is great. Hard to 1v1.
Norwegian's one of the hardest players I've ever had to 1v1.
I could say things about personality, of course, but we'd be here all day.
In post 1949, Flavor Leaf wrote:@Well Done - You wanna act like this is anything different when I know for a fact Dunnstral knows I play this exact way as town. Catboi is doing the same exact thing with the "pushing whoever pushes them" but you chose to ignore it.
Here's where I stand right now.
If you want to act like I haven't given my thoughts on nearly every single slot on the game bar a few, like The Keeper or your slot, it's because I was still needing something more concrete for the both of you.
I would say this is your first major point of action during this.
The fact that it came after my Mastina push and not my Catboi one makes me think there's merit in Mastina/Well Done being on one scum team, then Catboi/Cassowary on the other.
The rest is probably somewhere in my town reads because I don't expect to be correct on Day 1 with all my town reads, i fall in pockets early, and that's okay.
This is a good post! It also looks to me like Nashville Dreams weren't able to maintain internal consistency and forgot who they were supposed to be sussing by confusing Monkeyman with catboi.
I'll keep reading, but based on the most recent VC and scrolling through the last few pages, it doesn't look like the wagon on them developed much further, which is kind of odd, because I feel like this is more solid that anything else that's happened so far this game.
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:22 pm
by Cat Scratch Fever
Klick, are you townreading bnuuy now? I noticed you were voting them during my catch up
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:24 pm
by Well Done
Flavor leaf has flooded the thread with a ton of false information to throw up a smoke cloud that makes it hard to argue against everything they are spewing out. Now that the thread is calmer, let's go over all of this.
First point,
Flavor Leaf claims that they were never town reading us
Multiball games generally have semi symmetrical setups, not exact, of course, and if there's a Werewolf Miller claim, then there should be a Miller. If there isn't, I say we power tunnel Well Done.
In post 1134, Flavor Leaf wrote:Menalque being underestimated just gives them the power to come back harder, and being presented at the mountain top is only good for ego, and it sucks for actually playing the game.
When you can't hear the good, you can't hear the bad. best way to play it.
I think Bnuuy, Sword, and Wallflower are all townie. TB is townie. Menalque is townie.
Wallflower/Menalque are my towniest reads, I would say right now.
Wallflower turned me from my initial call out on them real fast.
this was my town list from a while back.
I don't see Well Done anywhere on here, so no clue what they're saying by "Swapped my read" on them.
Is that true?
First I will point out that we had never said they were townreading us, but Flavor Leaf latched onto that and ran with it. So what they are arguing here isn't even what we were saying, but is instead them trying to change the argument. They weren't scumreading us before we called them scum, at which point they instantly called us scum. And you know what? He was townreading us, anyways. He was at least leaning that way, but he left those parts out of his argument. Here they are:
In post 1364, Well Done wrote:Wallflower is town. I do not understand people claiming that they looked worse in the 1v1 with catboi.
^^ this.
There’s a few things Well Done has done earlier when I interacted that has me lean town on them back around that time. The “maybe I shouldn’t have asked” thing
In post 1390, Well Done wrote:My immediate paranoia to spotting this is that they are scum together. That in the scum chat they were talking about the playerlist, and catobi said basically this idea as a worry that pooky would likely end up tunneled on him for this reason.
So, when Flavor Leaf saw TB present a scum reads list of 3 names, and saw both catboi and himself on it, he stepped in to discredit the TB push based on this idea.
oh, I actually like this as a reason.
Yeah, that's a good paranoia. It's not happening, but I do see how you could get there.
In post 1402, Flavor Leaf wrote:Tell ya what, Well Done. If you think we're S/S, let's get on Catboi, and make me play chicken.
No, It's not true.
Second point.
Flavor Leaf has grossly exaggerated the meta connection between Dunnstral and himself.
You need to explain if 1977 is FL misinterpreting something or if they are outright lying or trying to fit a square into a round hole or what.
And explain how 2002 and subsequent posts on the topic can come from town
What am I misinterpreting?
Those are MY thoughts. Dunnstral has a huge amount of meta on me, and I don't believe he thought that coming from a town POV. I can see them using that to push me as scum, sure, but it's not like I don't know how Dunnstral plays.
In post 2101, Flavor Leaf wrote:My main reason for the turn on Well Done was I just really don't believe someone could play in 10+ games with me over the years, and not know that about my personality.
Maybe it's just me being self-centered or what have you, but even if I am I still think that's a stretch.
In post 2089, Well Done wrote:Your last town game was a year and a half ago on an alt, but earlier you argued that Dunnstral should "know" you are town based on meta. Huh.
this proves you chose to discredit before even looking at the post, because that was March 26th.
Dunnstral has been playing here for years, and the case was controlling game and being manipulative?
That's just describing me as a person.
In post 2100, Flavor Leaf wrote:Look, I'm not saying Dunnstral's some savant at reading me by any means, but I feel like there's definitely double digits amount of games played, and controlling gamestate/manipulative, catch phrasing repeating things is just come on level of that I'm starting to think there's no way scum would be this dense about it.
Flavor Leaf is very insistent that between himself and Dunnstral there is a double digit amount of games played, and that Dunnstral would know their meta well enough to have a good read on their alignment.
Is that true?
Most recent games: Tenet - December 2020 - Dunnstral replaced in after Flavor Leaf was already eliminated but before their alignment was revealed. Innocent Things - December 2020 Pooky vs Flavor Leaf - December 2020 - Flavor leaf is a scum aligned tree stump at the start of the game instead of a player slot Xenoblade 2 Mafia - November 2020
There's more. Saying 10+ games is either true or close enough. However, with no games in the past 1.5 years, and some of the most recent games being games where no determination of alignment was to be had or it was skewed in some other way, I'd say
It's partially true
Point 3.
Flavor Leaf claims that we knew they were in a neighborhood, and that we pushed them to get them to reveal information about it.
In post 1992, Well Done wrote:I never pushed you to reveal a neighborhood, but you will have to explain what you are talking about with what you actually said
That's the reason you did, if you are scum. I guess I could be wrong, and maybe you just didn't think much of it. But you were actively the one to notice, and it feels like you're using weak reasoning because you wanted to get that out of me to be sure because you were still confused.
I am town. Based on how I've been playing, scum are actively going to try to steer me to either misfade someone or stop momentum. This aint my first time at the rodeo. I'm a magnet, and it's one of the best ways I catch scum by bringing them to push me.
Multiball games generally have semi symmetrical setups, not exact, of course, and if there's a Werewolf Miller claim, then there should be a Miller. If there isn't, I say we power tunnel Well Done.
getting it on the new page so it doesnt get lost at the bottom.
I have been on the look out for the mafia miller claim as well, but wasn't going to say anything until everyone had checked in. Will share thoughts on the implication of no miller claim if no one has claimed it by the time everyone has checked in
I have 3 PT's. None of them are the scum ones, and now that I know the randomization of it all, i'm so paranoid of this game
Given the mechanics of the last game, I am surprised that there are 3.
Also curious if this works out as an IC claim for you?
In post 263, Well Done wrote:Flavor Leaf, do the hood mechanics make you mod proven not Mafia to 1 group of players, and mod proven not werewolf to another group of players?
In post 283, Well Done wrote:Thinking about it while cleaning my kitchen, and I think that I probably should not have asked my prior question. Disregard
I'm not in a Neighborhood with Klick or Enchant. I was telling the truth when I said 'definitely not in a neighborhood with Klick or Enchant', and I just said the first 2 names that talked. But yeah, if you go back and look at that time there, I never said I was in it with one, just let everyone assume I was to see what people would do.
I got my MonkeyMan town read from that.
I've been lightweight trying to pull a nightkill, lightweight not.
Which is them retracting their claim. Which we saw.
So at this point, there is no reason for us to believe that Flavor Leaf is secretly in a neighborhood with Save the Dragons and one other person as they claim. They know that. They don't have a real reason to think that we think that they are in a neighborhood, or that we are fishing for info.
This is a good post! It also looks to me like Nashville Dreams weren't able to maintain internal consistency and forgot who they were supposed to be sussing by confusing Monkeyman with catboi.
I'll keep reading, but based on the most recent VC and scrolling through the last few pages, it doesn't look like the wagon on them developed much further, which is kind of odd, because I feel like this is more solid that anything else that's happened so far this game.
Also:
In post 2070, Titus wrote:Interesting how I postulate that voting Catboi might be required for the game state causes us to be a counter to catboi. This definitely means I need to reset my catboi read when I catch up.
In post 2071, Titus wrote:The only difference I see is who is doing the voting. If it was people familiar with me, I would lean towards scum saving catboi. Yet Butter and Wallflower are not familiar with me.
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:32 pm
by Cat Scratch Fever
I don't see how 2070 addresses the point in 2109 - namely that Titus forgot who she thought scum were supposed to be saving by propping up counterwagons. It kind of seems like a cover, if anything?
Also Titus please post on your hydra account ._.
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:32 pm
by Flavor Leaf
Yeah, past pushing you at this point, Well Done.
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:34 pm
by Well Done
Didn't mean to say it addresses it. I didn't understand what 2070 is saying or how she got to that point, and that post got buried in the moment. I think that 1705 makes a good point that should be responded to.
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:36 pm
by Cat Scratch Fever
Oh okay, carry on
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:37 pm
by Flavor Leaf
I was gonna call out your linking of like the only 4-5 games I've played in 2 years, but saw you say it's partially true.
But frankly, I played more games on alts leading up to 2020, but have essentially been playing games with Dunn since like 2016 on and off.
I wasn't even counting those 4, didn't know Dunnstral was in those games, but if Dunnstral was in those in any way, then that's even moreso.
I believe I said they would know at the very least controlling a gamestate/manipulating/repeating/catchphrase is personality. People know that off of like 1, 2 games let alone the many I've played with Dunn.
I wasn't like hidden on most of my alts, and even if I was, I always outed.
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:40 pm
by Flavor Leaf
In post 2100, Flavor Leaf wrote:Look, I'm not saying Dunnstral's some savant at reading me by any means, but I feel like there's definitely double digits amount of games played, and controlling gamestate/manipulative, catch phrasing repeating things is just come on level of that I'm starting to think there's no way scum would be this dense about it.
Like I said it right here.
You're just misrepping and twisting again, kinda saying the same thing.
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:40 pm
by Flavor Leaf
In post 2111, Well Done wrote:They don't have a real reason to think that we think that they are in a neighborhood, or that we are fishing for info.
Your opinion, not my opinion.
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:41 pm
by Well Done
In post 1489, Klick wrote:UNVOTE:
Alright time to lock down and get into this nonsense
People I don't want to eliminate today
butterchurn
Nashville Dreams
Save The Dragons
Wallflower
Well Done
Menalque
People I think are fairly likely to flip scum
Toogeloo
catboi
MalcolmTucker
bnuuy
That's my preliminary assessment from kinda sorta skimming for the past two days. I want better reads than this.
I have to remind myself that this game has 9 (!) scum in it, and therefore there is going to be a lot of nonsense on any given page
I colored Klick's last reads list onto this list that they agree with and don't understand why they agree with it. Some explanation would be nice.
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:43 pm
by Flavor Leaf
Your bottom part regarding the neighborhood thing is also misguided, because the Klick/Enchant Neighborhood post I never said I was in.
I actively said I was "definitely not in a neighborhood with Klick/Enchant". they were the first 2 that posted after I asked about it, and 163 and 171 only connection is the neighborhood. You put a joke claim connection to 163, which is like, fine, I guess.
But me actively clearing up I wasn't in a neighborhood with those 2, when I specifically said I wasn't early, doesn't just straight up omit the first post I made.
