I'm not sure what you mean by "cracked" so please clarify if I'm wrong. I'm assuming you meant that Gamma was frustrated with the scumreads on him. I'm drawing attention to this because this feels like you are vaguely making Gamma look bad when he was under pressure and piling on.
This is a bad vote. Making a note of this because I feel like in every scenario where Irrelephant could take a stance or put down a vote, he always tends to scumread/vote townies and townread people in my POE pool. That's one of the reasons almost nothing he's said in the game has made me townread him. I've actually followed one of his games - it was a newbie game where he was town, he replaced in and immediately figured out the scum. His arguments and direction of reads made sense to me which is another reason I'm considering him not making sense as an indicator that he's scum and not just someone with a different way of approaching the game than I do. I'm going to go look back at the game after I finish catching up.
In post 1260, Irrelephant11 wrote:Bernie is not scum with (and is therefore less likely to be aligned with) math, shoshin, momrangal, not_mafia, skitter, or nauci, all but one of whom I'm townreading, and who can townread not_maf at this point? (sidenote: it's hilarious to me that not_maf is the perfect replacement to carry the torch of invisibility's playstyle)
His likely partners if he flips scum are keyser, gustavo, the worst, gamma, and errantparabola which is actually a pretty good lynchpool
This doesn't explain why Bernie is scum to begin with and his interactions with TheWorst actually make no sense as scum to scum. Weren't you townreading errantparabola?
In post 1264, Irrelephant11 wrote:Defending the worst comes across as towny to me here given how widely scumread tw was at the time - unless they’re scum together, in which case this seems like pretty bad play?
The problem with this is that none of the points Momra made in favor of TheWorst are actually good ones. I think I touched on this before but do you actually agree with the points Momra is making about TheWorst?
In post 1277, Errantparabola wrote:Nauci's list in 674 is definitely not great and I think there's a good chance its fabricated and the towniest part is her self-meta section
Can you talk about why because I had pretty much the exact opposite thought. I think the direction of her reads lines up decently enough with mine that it pushed her over to a townlean for me. But I hated the self-meta section. A lot of it felt fake although I'm more inclined to attribute it to playstyle at this point.
In post 1277, Errantparabola wrote:From a probabilistic perspective, scum says this more often than town I think, in the weighted sense
1048 is also bad
Disagree with both. I don't think the first one is indicative of alignment. I'm not sure what the scum-motivation is but since you're arguing probabilities instead of motivation, I'd like to see instances where you've seen scum say this if you can remember. Edit: you took it back in
1295 but I still want to know your basis for making it in the first place.
Two things about your reads in
1278: First, why are you townreading TheWorst? Second, I'm somewhat surprised skitter is in your lynchpool. I get people scumreading her if they have a completely different playstyle but you said yourself that your styles are similar. Was there anything particular that bothered you?
In post 1305, the worst wrote:1231 doesn't feel like town reacting to a case scum is making on them. @Gamma do you feel grossly misrepped by town!Key or actually think scum!Key is pushing you? it feels like you're not really willing to commit to either take?
Why isn't "Gamma is unsure" an option here? Town doesn't know who scum is so will often be considering multiple possibilities.
Why can't they both be town? If you think it's plausible for a town-Gustavo to hop onto a Gamma wagon the way he did, then it holds true regardless of Gamma's flip. Unless you're saying Gustavo's vote on Gamma is scummy but since Gamma is scum and you can't see it as partner-y, Gustavo is town. In that case, it's confirmation bias assuming Gamma is already flipping scum. Anyways, I'm going to compile all my questions to you later in a neater post after I see how you dealt with Gustavo D2.
In post 1315, Irrelephant11 wrote:K I was mostly voting Bernie to have a chance to sort him before voting a scumread but if he’s V/LA that’s pointless
What did you hope to accomplish by voting him that you couldn't by just asking him questions? You went to quite some detail about who could or couldn't be Bernie partners so I'm not sure I believe that it was a post with the intent to "sort him."
In post 1320, Errantparabola wrote:In general I think stuff like Ate and self meta and sentences like that and things that people tend to hold as null or scummy actually come from town more often
I think I understand what you are saying here and why you liked Nauci's self-meta. I actually agree that self-meta is often more likely to come from town. Stuff like "there's no way I'd do this as scum" or "I'd have played this completely differently if I were scum" especially when it's said in a way that's really genuine are indeed townie. My problem with Nauci is that it wasn't said as a response to being pressured or in response to an accusation. It felt more like listing off things about how good she is which I read more as false bravado at that point. Just randomly saying "I give zero fucks about how I'm perceived" didn't sit well with me.
In post 1330, Irrelephant11 wrote:K I’m fine with a Gamma lynch. He’s gotten worse under pressure and my reason for ever having a townread will either be proven or disproven before the lynch goes through. He definitely hasn’t been super helpful, and in his last dozen/two dozen posts he fees less like town trying to help make his own lynch worthwhile and more like scum trying to hide associatives
This is really generic and bad. He got worse under pressure? How? I actually thought he started scumhunting more under pressure whereas earlier he was pretty lurky and unreadable. I think if Irrelephant had seen Gamma's posts getting worse, he would actually comment on them.
In post 1335, Shoshin wrote:We still have plenty of time before deadline. Thanks for the votes, Nauci. It's pretty helpful.
I thought it was a rather poor use of 3 hours tbh if she was strapped for time. It felt kinda showy. Why not use that limited time to develop reads? Vote counts are something that would typically be more useful later on with flips.
1363 by Bernie is a very townie post.
In post 1369, the worst wrote:794 and surrounding were solid af fmpov. like I am not a fan of how I was positioned as scum for my predecessor and irl busyness here. it crossed my mind several times that I was an easy af push for scum to hide behind, and
I found Mom seeing things exactly the same way.
either she's town or has me pocketed hard but I'm not sure what scum!Mom's method is in WKing me here
LOL what? In the post you linked, Momrangal shaded your biggest rock-solid townread that you vouched for (Bernie) and talked about how he's pushing you for a mislynch. This is one of the scummiest posts in the game. Edit: you talk about this later in
1450 but I still don't follow. "Gross" is a bizarre way to describe a push on you that you don't find scummy. I'm gonna need you to explain exactly what these tells are because you're holding onto these "secret tells" that Bernie is town and that doesn't help read you at all.
1371 by Nauci lines up with my own reads well enough that I think it's more likely to be town.
In post 1419, Nauci wrote:I think Bernie and Mom aren't s/s but maybe also not t/t so I need to reread there
Why can't they be town/town independent of your read on Momrangal? I'm always puzzled when someone claimes that two people are the same or different alignments. How can you make such a determination? The only thing you can really read into pre-flip is whether two people can be scum together, or not.
What town motive is there to call out a fake-hammer? I can think of the obvious scum motive; that you don't want your Gamma mislynch slipping away because Gamma reacts in a towny way when he thinks he's been hammered.
@Skitter, I'll summarize thoughts on the Gamma lynch here since you asked. It didn't change my reads much. I still find Irrelephant/TheWorst scummy and am thinking Momrangal is potentially a scum wagon that didn't go through. But that's me saying that nothing rules out this existing scumread as opposed to developing a new one. I think Not_Mafia's and Gustavo's vote are both pretty bad but Gustavo's isn't bad enough to outweigh my stungun townread and Not_Mafia/Invisibility is in a null spot for me. I wish Errantparabola was made to take a stance and put a vote down.
Finished reading until page 65 (end of D1). I'm going to take a short break and then read D2.
