Open 812 Guardians of the Fortress - Game Over

[Marashu]

@S_S I have some thoughts about the setup that I've been making as the game progressed. They're in the mod PT but to summarize:

It's a bit unclear on how to resolve the minigames. Do all get flipped at the end of D2? Or do they happen real time? Or should only the person voted get flipped? My ruling is that they are treated as concurrent but exclusive minigames, so should be fully resolved independently, and if players are removed from play, their alignments should be known.
There was some pre-game confusion about whether votes and D2 in general would give each minigame their own thread. My attempt to clarify this in the rules made it more confusing. I think there is value in including the fact that each player only votes in their own minigame in the setup description - my initial interpretation was that it was three 2:1 and you could only vote within your own minigame, but there is some ambiguity in the way it's written.
This game is a great setup for people who tend to get eliminated or nightkilled early and want to play ELO, or for people who enjoy being in ELO.
I'm wondering if approaching locations like an assassins in the palace game would be useful in trying to get the 3-mafia in one location win condition.

All in all, I think it's a very interesting setup and would be happy to run it again sometime.

[Ydrasse]

this was a really fun game, gg everyone! thank you to my wonderful scumteam you two were amazing. <3

i like this setup quite a bit, i feel like town and scum get to have equal amounts of mechanical decision making wrt the groups and have to play strategically around flips, all that, i think someone smarter than me could say more but needless to say i like how tense it can get as the groups whittle down. thank you for hosting!!!

[catboi]

For the record, I entered day 1 thinking Anastasia was someone and was trying to pocket her, then found out her main was not at all who I thought it was and promptly informed the team while changing my approach.

This really is an interesting setup, despite the outcome of the game I found it incredibly challenging - you more or less ride or die on your teammates' individual merits and the most you're able to do is WIFOM a bit. We really didn't have a plan going into the day and the idea of getting the 1-1-1 split and swapping a heavily suspected townie into the keep was invented on the fly. I really did want to play this as town, because from that perspective you get an interesting puzzle to work though while as scum I felt pretty constrained.

I think something_smart's strongest point against me was that my logic for jumping to the gate really wasn't very good - I got antsy and wanted to move the game forward because I felt like prolonged discussion would make things harder and someone might start towntelling, and ultimately me going to the gate specifically was obviously for strategic purposes.

Team MVP was definitely Ydrasse, though - without us having a plan for the game she simply brute-forced her way into winning the keep where I was practically ready to concede it and play a hard game from the start. I really did find her play here to be very impressive.

[catboi]

people who enjoy being in ELO.

Do such utterly depraved beings really exist?

[Ydrasse]

thank you catboi aaaa, i think you and unwnd deserve equal credit though for being able to stave off the pressure even after knowing my flip would come, and being able to interact before then in a way that didn’t make it blindingly obvious that we were all aligned. <333

[Lukewarm]

people who enjoy being in ELO.

Do such utterly depraved beings really exist?

I don't know how much I like being at Elo, but this is a nice set up to practice it. And also practice it without 100% of the thinking being on your shoulders. It was nice to be able to see how other people were all approaching Elo

[catboi]

nya nya~ (≚ᄌ≚)ℒℴѵℯ♥

[Ydrasse]

also, i wanted to say, luke you are a very fun presence in this game and i really hope you stick around on the site to play more. you’re a really good player already and with more experience here i’d love to see what you can pull off!!

[Ydrasse]

nya nya~ (≚ᄌ≚)ℒℴѵℯ♥

nyaaaaaa ~

[Lukewarm]

And Ydrasse, that was a master class in towntelling as scum. You somehow managed to pocket every single member of the town, which is mighty impressive.

[catboi]

I think this would be a fun setup in a more fast-paced environment, like a marathon game or face to face

[Ydrasse]

And Ydrasse, that was a master class in towntelling as scum. You somehow managed to pocket every single member of the town, which is mighty impressive.

this game was quite literally an anomaly in that my scumgame is riddled with insecurity and unwillingness to do things for fear of being caught so, thank you i am rather proud of this one. :>

i guess the keep sort of necessitates the method of brute forcing for scum where you have to be completely confident and never, ever back down. that is my advice for any scum in the keep if this is ran again.

[Lukewarm]

also, i wanted to say, luke you are a very fun presence in this game and i really hope you stick around on the site to play more. you’re a really good player already and with more experience here i’d love to see what you can pull off!!

I think this is my 4th completed game on here?

So far I am not building up a particularly good track record.

2 were losses with me casting a bad vote at ELo (sorry absinthe)
1 was a win because I listened to the confirmed townie instead of sticking to my own top vote (sorry catboi)
1 was a win where I managed to find the correct solution after a

really

long time of being wrong.

Although I have never been night killed, and I have never been voted out, so I am getting lots of practice at Elo so far

[Ydrasse]

that’s still 50% even if it was a rocky road, it really does take time and experience playing before you feel more confident. and even then experienced players still lose at elo all the time, it’s stressful without fail.

keep it up though, really, i think everyone here had a great time playing with you regardless

[Lukewarm]

I am not super sure how the mafiascum award thing works. The scummies?

But I think this could be a contender for amazing scum game from Ydrasse

I think that literally every single town player was convinced she was town.

[catboi]

Meh, it happens, ELo is really hard and my own track record there as town is pretty poor. For being new you shouldn't feel bad about it at all.

[Anastasia]

I think you played very well Lukewarm, I had you very high in my town section.

You can nominate the scum team for a scummy here in this thread:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=86107


Congrats again @Ydra/CatB/Unwnd

it was a beautiful victory <3 - I think I'm still stuck somewhere deep in Ydra's pocket.

Which is something because I've literally seen her do this and I still fell into it head first - mea maxima culpa.

Thanks to Marashu for modding, everything was amazing and the setup is a delight to play.

Sorry to my fellow townies for being so stubbornly wrong ayayaya.

[unwnd]

They never expected the fake compliments ydra

So glad I won early instead of a grueling final xylo

[Infinity 324]

also, i wanted to say, luke you are a very fun presence in this game and i really hope you stick around on the site to play more. you’re a really good player already and with more experience here i’d love to see what you can pull off!!

+1

[Infinity 324]

this game was quite literally an anomaly in that my scumgame is riddled with insecurity and unwillingness to do things for fear of being caught so, thank you i am rather proud of this one. :>

God yes this was the biggest reason I couldn't see you as scum.

[unwnd]

I just told her to let loose and fake it till she made it

But I never knew how far she'd go

The immediate lock onto keep (going off my own impulses) was great distancing from the start and planned

[Something_Smart]

-

Regarding these unclear points, I'm not sure that I had a specific answer in mind for some of them. But I like your decisions-- everything is in one thread, but you can only vote for your own game, and resolved games flip immediately and no one from them can post.

I was trying to think about a way to address unwnd's complaint-- that sometimes people in one game have no incentive to care about the other games. I feel like this mostly applies to the Gate, because its unconfirmed members are 50% scum rather than 33%, and people are motivated to leave the Gate till last because of the IC. Even despite these, I think I was wrong in not caring, because if catboi and I both scumread unwnd then everyone can be sure that one townie supports it.

But, maybe that could be mitigated by not removing the IC's thread access after their game ends? Because the main reason to remove thread access is to prevent extra IC's, so if someone is already an IC, I can see this fix making sense.

The game's EV is just a tad over 50%, and I was afraid that it would be townsided in practice because there's an IC and there are no NK's. In some sense I'm glad scum won because it makes me less afraid of that (though, the scumteam did play very strongly). I think maybe making the IC permanent wouldn't swing the needle too far? It's probably worth it, because I don't want "Gate last" to become obviously best.

If anyone ran this setup again, I'd join it in a heartbeat. If nobody does, I might run it myself. I enjoyed it a lot and definitely want to see it tested more. (And thanks for modding Marashu! You're a really good mod!)

[Lukewarm]

But, maybe that could be mitigated by not removing the IC's thread access after their game ends? Because the main reason to remove thread access is to prevent extra IC's, so if someone is already an IC, I can see this fix making sense.

ooo. I really like that idea.

No idea how it would affect balance, but it

feels

like it would be nice

[Something_Smart]

I've updated the wiki page to clarify the things that weren't specified and also add the rule about the IC always being able to post. Not sure if I'll keep that, but I'd like to see how it plays out.

[catboi]

Oh, I should say: you all were wonderful to play with, thanks for making the game enjoyable~

:3