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Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:55 pm
by GrandpaMo
In post 2100, Cheeky Wings wrote:
Gamma I just think killing loft who is a claimed miller and low content slot, just doesn't help us much at this stage. If they keep it up in coming phases sure. Toog could've sorted them for us but c'est la vie.
~C

eh not rlly -- there is 17 ppl .


i rather get rid of the low content ppl and ppl who just troll around rather than get distracted with possible openwolf and warlocking

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:58 pm
by Loftwing
So you're saying that we should kill players who we aren't sure either way are town or scum because of their low content output, rather than extremely scummy players who output a lot of content?

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:04 pm
by Cheeky Wings
In post 2165, Good Luck Buddy wrote:so uh how sure r u that gamma is town
I’m not at all, I honestly have no clue now but his pushes have been all over the place recently but I do know that Loft tryharding as town in one game doesn’t mean much because I’ve also seen him do pretty much nothing as town as well and I don’t really know how useful flavour is in determining anything.

I feel way more confident on Dats now. I really feel he’s been honestly sorting.

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:05 pm
by GrandpaMo
In post 2176, Loftwing wrote:So you're saying that we should kill players who we aren't sure either way are town or scum because of their low content output, rather than extremely scummy players who output a lot of content?
no

i just disagree with what cheeky said lol


im not saying we shouldnt ignore those scummy players but we also shouldnt ignore thsoe ppl i pointed out

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:05 pm
by GrandpaMo
In post 2174, Datisi wrote:ye ok sure

VOTE: galron
r we thinking the same thing ?

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:06 pm
by GrandpaMo
In post 2176, Loftwing wrote:So you're saying that we should kill players who we aren't sure either way are town or scum because of their low content output, rather than extremely scummy players who output a lot of content?
also i think ur fine rn

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:08 pm
by Cheeky Wings
Spoiler:
In post 2166, Victorine wrote:
In post 2162, Cheeky Wings wrote:
In post 2161, Victorine wrote:
In post 2156, Cheeky Wings wrote:
In post 2143, Victorine wrote:Let me force you to read my stupid fanfic for a while...

"Wake up, sleepy head." Jasiri shook her mate with her paw "The ceremony won't wait!"

"Can't it wait for a little longer?" Janja groaned in response, turning around with intent to continue sleeping

"I suppose it can be postponed for a little while longer." Jasiri smiles "But no longer than a half an hour. After all, it's not every day that someone becomes royalty. Or rather, two someones."

Janja smiles as well. At least until the true meaning of her words reaches his brain. Then he sits bolt upright, eyes going wide.

"Wait, are you saying what I think you're saying?!" he asks

"If you think I am saying you're gonna be the King of the Outlands, then yes." Jasiri giggles

"B..but...I..." Janja stutters "I nominated you as the Queen partially because I knew I would do a lousy job at ruling. You saw how me and my clan failed each time I tried to lead them. Now I will fail on a much bigger scale, and I don't want that."

He starts to wheeze, and Jasiri frowns once she realizes he is having a nervous breakdown.

"Janja...calm down." she says "The fact you're so worried about this in the first place is precisely why you'd make a good king."

"I have to agree with her." another familiar voice rings out

Janja and Jasiri look at the former King of the Pridelands. Simba is older now, and it shows. His movements are slower and his breath is more labored. His eyes, however, are filled with affection. Both Jasiri and Janja can see it.

"Simba." Jasiri curtsies respectfully "What brings you here?"

"I happened to overhear Janja's worries, so I decided to give him some advice, from a former King to a future one." Simba smiles gently "Do not let self-doubt hold you back. I did, and that turned out to be a mistake."

"And why were you in the Outlands?" Jasiri asks

"To tell the truth, I wanted to visit my son." Simba admits "Well, adoptive son. We spent so little time together before I had to give him away."

"Why didn't you visit him before?" Jasiri prompts

"I was sidetracked with my royal duties and raising my own children." Simba says "And then when Kion grew up, he had a lot of encounters with my adoptive son. And he told me all about those per my request. That way, I was able to keep tabs on him."

"And who is this adopted son of yours?" Jasiri tilted her head curiously

"Well, as you know, two of my children became royalty. Kiara is Queen of the Pridelands and Kion is the King of the Tree of Life." Simba says "So then, what if I said that my adopted child is about to become royalty as well?"

Jasiri looks at Janja, and their eyes widen simultaneosly. Then Jasiri giggles.

"Oh, yes." she chortles "A lion adopting a hyena! Now I've seen everything!"

"You will bring the hyenas back to the Pridelands." Simba continues "Just as your parents would have wanted."

Janja turns away at that declaration, looking sad.

"I never knew my parents." he whispers "I never even met them. You know them better than I ever will. Why do you get to know them better than me?!"

Then he bolts off before either Jasiri or Simba could stop him.

"Janja..." Jasiri whispers

She's about to follow, but a lion's paw blocks her path.

"He needs some time to himself." Simba says "I suggest you postpone the coronation ceremony until tomorrow. In the meantime, I'll talk to him."

Janja is lying on cold, hard stone. Tears are flowing down his face without reservation as he gnaws on a bone.

Then a zebra carcass is placed down in front of him, and a warm body lies down next to him.

"Let it all out, son." Simba says "It's been twenty years since I last called you that, you know..."

Janja doesn't look up, but he does start munching on the zebra carcass instead.

"You were quite the troublemaker back then." Simba says "And according to Kion, you still were well into your teenage years."

"And yet, you were quick to disbelieve I had changed." Janja says

"Yes, that was an unfortunate development." Simba admits with a sigh "To be honest, you brought back Scar and I...I thought he had corrupted you fully. That, and twenty years of causing trouble...I thought that the little pip I knew back then was gone forever. Fortunately, you were able to prove me wrong. And that is why I'll make one final decree as King. Kiara and Kovu already agreed as well, as did Kion. From now on, the hyenas are welcome in the Pridelands and at the Tree of Life alike as long as they don't cause too much mayhem. I do this for you and for your mate's joint clan."

"Thank you." Janja manages to say

"Now you should rest for today." Simba begins to leave "I convinced Jasiri to postpone the ceremony for your sake. Me and my family will attend. All of us will attend the coronation. It's a family affair, after all."

"So me and Kion have been brothers this whole time?" Janja smirks

"Adoptive brothers." Simba corrects "But yes. And you fought, as brothers should."

"And I held my adoptive sister and mother hostage." Janja adds

"Yes, you did." Simba remarks off-handedly "It was Ushari's idea, to be fair."

"Maybe." Janja grins "Still, that's one weird family tree. But...I was told my real parents died. How did they die?"

"They were killed." is all Simba says "I need to get going now, and you need to rest."

When Janja and Jasiri wake up the next day, the sun is high up in the sky. They stand up slowly and drink a little from the pond, before they are interrupted by Madoa, who runs up to them.

"The royal family are coming...all of them." she says "And so is the Lion Guard."

"Which one, Kion's or Vitani's?" Jasiri asks

"Both of them." Madoa replies

"Well, then, this will be interesting..." Janja says

"Very interesting." another voice says

"Ah, Vitani is here." Madoa says

"Indeed." Vitani stops to look at Janja "You look like Shenzi...and Banzai as well. You must be their biological offspring."

"I can't be. They died in a fire long before I was born. Every hyena knows the story. And my parents were killed, so that can't be true." Janja denies

"That's not what happened." Vitani smiles sadly "Your parents were killed by my mother."

"That's not entirely true." Simba says "Your mother died giving birth to you and your father was killed by my officers."

Janja looks between Vitani and Simba, unsure which version to believe. Nala, Kiara, Kovu and Vitani's guard are there as well.

Then Jasiri clears her throat.

"I hate to interrupt, but the ceremony is about to start."

Janja has a sneaking suspicion she did so for his sake.

That is when Kion, his mate and his guard appear.

"I believe we've come to an acceptable alternative for your ceremony." Jasiri tells Simba

Wema and Tunu walk up, each one carrying what appears to be a makeshift crown made of twigs and leaves in their mouth

"Indeed." Simba agrees

"Then let the coronation ceremony begin!" Jasiri announces

Wema and Tunu approach Janja and Jasiri and put the crowns onto their heads as everyone is watching.

"Presenting the new Queen and King of the Outlands." Madoa announces "Good luck, you guys."

"Thanks, sis." Jasiri says "We'll need it...both of us will need it."

Janja tunes out most of what happens next. Instead he thinks about his parents and tries to figure out which story is true.

After the ceremony is finished, he is approached by Kion and Rani.

"Thinking about your parents?" Rani asks softly "Mine were killed too, so I understand how you feel."

"If what Simba says is true, then I killed my mother." Janja says morosely

"You didn't." Rani says comfortingly "It's just one of those things that happen."

Janja doesn't answer. Instead, he wanders off.

"He needs to be alone now." Rani advises "Except you, Jasiri. He needs you, I think."

"Got it." Jasiri says and takes off after him.


So have you figured out my alignment from this yet?
So, are you supposed to be Jasiri here or one of the other characters?
I was supposed to be Janja, but RC misread my intentions, so this is me pretending to be him while upholding my restriction at the same time.
Will your post restriction be lifted at some point because if it’s real, I might lean slight town based on this but it’s really not enough to town bin you for the entire game based off of this because we have no way of knowing if it’s true or fake at this point.

What is your specific flavour since you claim it’s non Janja?
No, it will not be lifted unless I die. As for my flavor, you'll find out sooner or later.


How are we expected to honestly sort you then?

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:10 pm
by Gamma Emerald
UNVOTE:

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:13 pm
by Datisi
In post 2179, GrandpaMo wrote:
In post 2174, Datisi wrote:ye ok sure

VOTE: galron
r we thinking the same thing ?
idk, i saw your post, thought "yeah that looks bad i guess" and decided to vote there as i wasn't feeling my deimos vote anymore, but didn't have anywhere else to go (need to relook at gamma at some point, but i'm assuming the case against him didn't impress me considering i don't even remember most of it rn)

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:14 pm
by Deimos27
re: , I have 130 posts in this game and I don't think you can ISO me and say with intellectual honesty that my play has been characterised by handwaving everyone's content except two early tells from you + Gamma. I have consistently chimed in on lots of players. Your entire case on me boils down to "he would be posting more" and "he would be posting more detailed analysis", both of which fail simply due to considerations both practical and WIM that I brought out regarding this being a large hyperposting role madness game. I'll bring in yet another pure practical time-based consideration that has nothing to do with enjoyment: I mentioned that I had a 40h stint awake at once with 3h of sleep because "my college is sadistic". Needless to say I have a
wee
bit of schoolwork here halfway through term.

One second you say that I need to analyse you more because so far I only have "scumpings" (I have explicitly emphasised that I believe my tells to be stronger than pings), the next that you actually don't expect my analysis to be centred on you.

In summary I think you just expect too much, given the circumstances. You are free to disagree but I'd rather not really argue about it anymore.

Also I don't see what's wrong with using "correct conclusion for the wrong reasons" as a tell, that's like paradigmatic tmi. Especially when it's "correct conclusion for reasons that should have led to a wrong conclusion". I recognise that you claim that your evaluation of me only meant to reach some minimum standard of "not hating their life" on the basis of which you gave me a townlean. I don't buy at all that anyone would realistically set the bar that low for distinguishing scum WIM from town WIM.

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:16 pm
by Deimos27
I'll make the concession that Datisi has engaged me here in what has felt like far better faith than I can really remember ever engaging with scum.
And so I'll bite on this to show my willingness to reconsider:
In post 2177, Cheeky Wings wrote:I feel way more confident on Dats now. I really feel he’s been honestly sorting.
Any posts in particular?

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:19 pm
by Cheeky Wings
I am unfamiliar with Galron but not terribly impressed with his ISO. He’s definitely a better vote than Loft anyway, since I’m picking up more town vibes from him than Galron, so not opposed.

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:21 pm
by Cheeky Wings
In post 2185, Deimos27 wrote:I'll make the concession that Datisi has engaged me here in what has felt like far better faith than I can really remember ever engaging with scum.
And so I'll bite on this to show my willingness to reconsider:
In post 2177, Cheeky Wings wrote:I feel way more confident on Dats now. I really feel he’s been honestly sorting.
Any posts in particular?
I already mentioned his Gypyx read and I’m sure I can find more. He sounds nothing here like 2246 where most of reads read really fake to me, so I really don’t get why you sr him?

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:26 pm
by Datisi
In post 2184, Deimos27 wrote:I don't think you can ISO me and say with intellectual honesty that my play has been characterised by handwaving everyone's content except two early tells from you + Gamma.
good thing that's not what i'm saying. your play has been characterized by handwaving all of the content i and gamma have produced that happened after your pings. as in, it feels like you're not taking anything else we're saying into consideration. i wasn't saying that about literally everyone's content.

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:26 pm
by Cheeky Wings
In post 1725, Galron wrote:I'm not looking forward to this. I just got the game start PM this morning.
Why aren’t you looking forward to this?

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:28 pm
by Deimos27
Wrt reading into Loftwing flavour can I just point out that if he was gonna fakeclaim miller why would he trueclaim flavour that didn't make sense for miller.
If anything the fact that we need to stretch the logic to get a miller out of his flavourclaim is town-ai imo.

And I trust the assessment of CheekyWing that the meta thing does absolutely nothing for us.

I'm just happy about how cooperative Jake was. Contrary to popular skepticism at the time I think we managed to be fairly successful at eliciting content from him.

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:29 pm
by Datisi
In post 2184, Deimos27 wrote:One second you say that I need to analyse you more because so far I only have "scumpings" (I have explicitly emphasised that I believe my tells to be stronger than pings), the next that you actually don't expect my analysis to be centred on you.
one second i'm saying that i expect one of your two strongest scumreads would be based on more than a single post while literally not saying anything about any of my other posts, the next that i don't expect to be the main and only person you do analysis on.

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:30 pm
by Datisi
In post 2184, Deimos27 wrote:I don't buy at all that anyone would realistically set the bar that low for distinguishing scum WIM from town WIM.
at the beginning of the game where i am usually scraping the bottom of the barrel in order to have reads that i know i need to keep the game moving? the bar is on the floor.

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:31 pm
by Datisi
i really need to sleep, someone yell at me if i post again.

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:45 pm
by Deimos27
In post 2188, Datisi wrote:
In post 2184, Deimos27 wrote:I don't think you can ISO me and say with intellectual honesty that my play has been characterised by handwaving everyone's content except two early tells from you + Gamma.
good thing that's not what i'm saying. your play has been characterized by handwaving all of the content i and gamma have produced that happened after your pings. as in, it feels like you're not taking anything else we're saying into consideration. i wasn't saying that about literally everyone's content.
Ok well then I doubly don't understand how you can consistently say that you think it's fine for me not to focus on you two.
I guess you're saying I need to focus a little more than I have so far but I don't need to focus much more?

Lest people forget I'm gonna remind everyone of all the other reasons I cited for my reads on Gamma and Dat:

1. Gamma's Datisi read
2. Datisi's Ydra read
3. Gamma talking about a "good townblock forming"
4. Gamma's

No one asked for elaboration on these they went straight to an "omg you're actually still using those
old
tells how bad is that" type mentality.
Guess what, I think those tells are important, so I'm gonna continue to cite them.

Do you think I'm being disingenuous when I say that I think my tells on you are good enough to focus on sorting other players? Because that's what matters. Disagreeing with my scumhunting philosophy of focusing on players from whom I've not gotten a tell I consider reliable is one thing, thinking I'm scum faking the belief that you and Gamma fall into this category is another.

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:46 pm
by Cheeky Wings
In post 2173, GrandpaMo wrote:
In post 2044, Galron wrote:
In post 1980, Gamma Emerald wrote:https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88015
I have to watch a movie soon so don’t expect posting for like 2-3 hours
Which movie?
In post 2045, Galron wrote:I am not going to read 80 pages after coming in late. Likely will just vote the biggest wagon.
In post 2046, Galron wrote:Anyone else who came in late, would like to hear your thoughts.

Looking at the activity overview, read Clemency's ISO, there's less there than from anyone who started on time.

What's up Clemency?
this is scummy af.
This is scummy af.
~C

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:48 pm
by Deimos27
In post 2192, Datisi wrote:
In post 2184, Deimos27 wrote:I don't buy at all that anyone would realistically set the bar that low for distinguishing scum WIM from town WIM.
at the beginning of the game where i am usually scraping the bottom of the barrel in order to have reads that i know i need to keep the game moving? the bar is on the floor.
The problem isn't where the bar is for getting a read
The problem is where the bar is for getting the
type
of read
Your bar could well be on the floor but I think that's only reason for you to have therefore scumleaned me

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:49 pm
by Cheeky Wings
In post 2175, GrandpaMo wrote:
In post 2100, Cheeky Wings wrote:
Gamma I just think killing loft who is a claimed miller and low content slot, just doesn't help us much at this stage. If they keep it up in coming phases sure. Toog could've sorted them for us but c'est la vie.
~C

This is scummy af.
~C
eh not rlly -- there is 17 ppl .


i rather get rid of the low content ppl and ppl who just troll around rather than get distracted with possible openwolf and warlocking

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:51 pm
by Cheeky Wings
In post 1753, GrandpaMo wrote:hey guys... funny thing is i never got a game start pm so i never knew the game started lol
In post 1756, GrandpaMo wrote:there is a lot of aggressive ppl on this thread LOL

this is probably due to the nature of the roles everyone has
Yeah this can go. I caught my first obv scum.
~C

Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:52 pm
by Deimos27
In post 2187, Cheeky Wings wrote:
In post 2185, Deimos27 wrote:I'll make the concession that Datisi has engaged me here in what has felt like far better faith than I can really remember ever engaging with scum.
And so I'll bite on this to show my willingness to reconsider:
In post 2177, Cheeky Wings wrote:I feel way more confident on Dats now. I really feel he’s been honestly sorting.
Any posts in particular?
I already mentioned his Gypyx read and I’m sure I can find more. He sounds nothing here like 2246 where most of reads read really fake to me, so I really don’t get why you sr him?
Was his gypyx read anything other than the post where he said "lukewarm take: I think gypyx is town"
That's the post you're tr'ing?

As for the second bit, you're using meta that I don't have to justify your reads again
Which I appreciate but doesn't really help me :/