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[catboi]

Vote Count 3.01

innocentvillager (3):

Something_Smart, House, MathBlade

MathBlade (1):

Datisi

Andresvmb (1):

Frogsterking

Frogsterking (1)

: Andresvmb

Not Voting (2):

Aristeia, innocentvillager

With 8 alive, it's 5 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 3 is February 11 at 8:00 AM EST.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-02-11 09:00:00)

[House]

House I think you've only FoSed one scum all game

That's only because my n1 action didn't go through.

No it isn't, I was including Lap in my list of your FoS es.

What bullshit is this?
Why are you shading conf town?
There’s only one flipped scum?

Who do you think House should be FoSing?
Keep in mind anything less than a complete solve makes your shade Bs

BS shade is NAI.

I bs shade all the time as both alignments.

[House]

nya

Pagetop thief!

[MathBlade]

nya

Pagetop thief!

Technically catboi owns all pagetops, we are all stealers

[House]

nya

Pagetop thief!

Technically catboi owns all pagetops, we are all stealers

E-2 already.

Good times.

[MathBlade]

Off to work so later

But if whoever we flip flips town I want someone on that Lap wagon to die.

[Datisi]

andres and frogster are tvt and their mutual shittunnel is going to be very damaging to this town

How confident are you that it's TvT?

confident enough that i think there's nothing good to come from the two of you fighting today

[Frogsterking]

andres and frogster are tvt and their mutual shittunnel is going to be very damaging to this town

How confident are you that it's TvT?

confident enough that i think there's nothing good to come from the two of you fighting today

Why did he FoS me then?

House I think you've only FoSed one scum all game

That's only because my n1 action didn't go through.

No it isn't, I was including Lap in my list of your FoS es.

If I was seriously still scumreading you, you'd have flipped last night. I'm just jerking your chain.

Oh okay

This game is so full of bad takes and holy shit IV's last two posts are cringe.

S_S can you do a top 5 worst takes from this game?

[MathBlade]

Vote Count 1.08

Laplacian (7):

Reformed Toxic Player, Andresvmb, Datisi, Aristeia, House, Frogsterking, Almost50

Almost50 (2):

VP Baltar, skitter30

innocentvillager (1):

OutWorldER

Frogsterking (1):

Laplacian

Datisi (1):

innocentvillager

Not Voting (1):

Something_Smart

With 13 alive, it took 7 to eliminate.

Vote Count 2.06

skitter30 (6):

Datisi, Aristeia, OutWorldER, House, MathBlade, Frogsterking

VP Baltar (1):

innocentvillager

MathBlade (1)

: skitter30

Not Voting (3):

Andresvmb, Something_Smart, VP Baltar

With 11 alive, it took 6 to eliminate.

I mean look at that overlap
Outworlder and House are conf
I am conf from VP

Datisi/Ari/Frog were on both wagons
If there isn’t a scum in that three it’s table flip time

[Datisi]

Why did he FoS me then?

because he's not omniscient? what kinda question is this

[Frogsterking]

How are you so sure it's TvT?

Also if IV flips scum does it clear S_S?

[Something_Smart]

I'm pretty sure if I were scum with IV I would campaign to kill House N1.

[Frogsterking]

S_S you didn't answer my question about the top 5 worst takes, also so you think andres and I are TvT?

[Frogsterking]

S_S you didn't answer my question about the top 5 worst takes, also so you think andres and I are TvT?

*do you think

[Datisi]

How are you so sure it's TvT?

Also if IV flips scum does it clear S_S?

i'm townreading both of you, if you want me to write a case on both of you i can, but that will have to wait

i would assume so, but i think math is scum so /shrug

[Something_Smart]

S_S you didn't answer my question about the top 5 worst takes, also so you think andres and I are TvT?

I don't really want to answer that, sorry. I don't think you and Andres are necessarily TvT but I think your confidence on him is way unwarranted and I don't like how you're shaping all your other reads around it.

[MathBlade]

Why do you think that? Is it because others don’t follow my logic?

[Frogsterking]

How are you so sure it's TvT?

Also if IV flips scum does it clear S_S?

i'm townreading both of you, if you want me to write a case on both of you i can, but that will have to wait

i would assume so, but i think math is scum so /shrug

I think you should case it because it felt like SvT to me and this feels like a game where scum are in the lurkers. It also has credence with Math's theory that there is 1 scum onwagon and your observation that andres vote was one of the ones which looked most bus like.

I guess I don't know that it's the best solve yet but I think it's the best lead right now.

[Datisi]

your observation that andres vote was one of the ones which looked most bus like.

this was not my observation

my observation was that a50's looked like a bus, everyone else's looked clean

[Frogsterking]

1442 oh it was one of the weakest and therefore

non

buslike

[Frogsterking]

andres push today for example in 2010 and 2053 are either completely missing or intentionally ignoring 1751, 965 and 966, and 1012.

I noticed because in an andres + iv world I thought it would be unlikely of scum!andres to want to call attention to 965, 966 and 1012 , then I realized he never did.

[Frogsterking]

andres push today for example in 2010 and 2053 are either completely missing or intentionally ignoring 1751, 965 and 966, and 1012.

I noticed because in an andres + iv world I thought it would be unlikely of scum!andres to want to call attention to 965, 966 and 1012 , then I realized he never did.

One more thing, in 2059 andres goes back to double check and corrects his earlier mistake where he said I tried to bury skitter based on meta instead of ari, and andres misses 1751 again during his double check, which would have indicated to him that I tried to bury neither ari nor skitter based on meta.

Even if it's not AI, I think it indicates the position against me being town is not credible.

[Frogsterking]

Sorry two more things:

Monkey Business is this your usual M.O.?

Andre do you want me to make like an actual RTP deep dive? That stuff was the turning point in time where I went from scum reading to town reading RTP, but at that point in time I thought they were like just an above average player.

They’re not just above average but that’s all I’ll say haha they’re just good to play with. And that’s with them as either alignment, though I still resent that Friendly Neighbor gambit they pulled against me.

I suggest you firm up what you make of the slot, and share it with the class. It’ll help me settle more firmly on what I think about you. And who knows, maybe it helps me with sorting RTP.

The first paragraph of the above is motivation for the RTP kill.

The latter of the above: there is no follow up to this the next night and it bothered me a little bit.

I suggest you firm up what you make of the slot, and share it with the class. It’ll help me settle more firmly on what I think about you. And who knows, maybe it helps me with sorting RTP.

Feels like you got the order backwards, there.

No I don’t. I trust my own ability to read RTP over Frog’s, while still acknowledging that RTP can and has fooled me in the past (though not forever). I think Frog is tryharding in a way that makes them more often than not Town and peering through their logic helps me sort them.

There was no follow up the next night and when andres came back two days later they didn't seem interested in sorting RTP or myself. It could be nothing but it bothered me a little bit at the time.

[Datisi]

when you have three exams in the next three days but someone on the internet is wrong:

on the subject of town!frogsterking:

first, things that independently make me think that frogster is town.

410 struck me as townie re-evaluation of baltar, the person they were sure is scum. look at how he talks about baltar in the posts prior (300, 329, 333, 338, 342, 362,

especially

399 which is their last post before 410). scum is generally very unlikely to be doing these sort of "jumps" in reasoning and trajectory because they'll be trying for consistency. town doesn't care about consistency, town cares about getting their shit out and solving the game.

and we see it again, in 418. not only is frogs jumping from one read to another, which is something that scum generally doesn't do or finds difficult to fake, he's also outing takes that... i don't think scum outs. the ideas present in this post, that baltar is toxic or that house is scum setting up a baltar/house/frogster yelo... scum doesn't come up with shit like that. see the explanation in 557. reads like these require creativity, that is generally not present in scum. we also see similar jumps shortly after frogs posts the survey and starts townreading rtp because of their response to it.

then we have the effort posts. stuff like 592, 1012, 1063. i think you will very rarely find scum that puts this much

effort

into cases, especially on day 1 and especially when it's not immediately needed. then posts like 785 and 719, they show that frogs is looking into meta of people, but it's not in-your-face "look at me i'm solving" meta case that it often looks like when scum does it, it's more quiet and mentioned in passing. then, we have 1729, which is a callback to day one's survey results - it shows that frogs is actually using the results and it wasn't just for show.

then, lap>frogs interactions.

admittedly there isn't much, because the dude has only like 16 posts, but. (1) i still believe that 182 is good reasoning to townread frogs, because laplacian is

scared

of frogster scumreading him, that's why he added the "if he posts the survey" nonsense. then, notice who laplacian townreads. house (174), rtp (175), frogster & datisi (458). flipped town, cleared town, andres's hard townread, and frogster. notice a pattern?

(also, sidenote, i just noticed the one and only scumread laplacian had was innocentvillager in 203, haha. anyway.)

finally, frogs>lap interactions.

now, you could argue that 592 is a bus. and frankly, i *could* see it as a bus. however, i think some events happened that simply do not happen if frogster and laplacian are both scum. first, laplacian actually bites back on frogster. the "oh this case is garbage ahaha" bullshit in 777. if those two are partners, the idea is to make frogs look good upon the flip. so frogs would probably help lapla make a countercase. it didn't get posted because scum didn't want to *further* spew frogster town upon lapla's scumflip. (this could maybe go n the above section, but fuck it whatever you get the point.)

furthermore, i don't think any scum ever in frogster's position posts 901, or 924, or 945, or the insanity of the scumcase on iv that was 1012. at the time, lapla's wagon has a lot of supporters. some of those are loud supporters, like me and rtp. lapla is nowhere to be seen and i don't think it takes a scum mastermind to realize he's probably going down. and, if frogs is scum, the moment 592 was posted, it was sealed that lapla is going to end up bussed. now, here's the thing. imagine you're frogsterking. you're bussing your poor teammate into the fucking ground. there's a huge wagon on him. do you:

a) keep screaming that he's scum, he flips red, you're looking town as fuck, and you push misyeets the rest of the game, OR
b) make a huge fucking scumcase on a townie that has next to NO VOTES on them

because if you do b). best case scenario is that that misyeet goes through on d1, poor lapla falls on d2, and you're left looking like shit. while, if you do a), and then push that same misyeet on d2, you're still looking decently well after the fact.

here's another thing, scum isn't stupid. scum knows how things like these look. they wouldn't fucking dare to post something like 1012 in that gamestate, because they're very much aware it can come back to bite them in the ass later. and they never count on having someone like me in town who's gonna be writing this case, they can't. so frogster is either one of the ballsiest motherfuckers i've seen, or he's town.

on the subject of town!andresvmb:

this one is a bit more... shakier, but still. the first thing is that andres tonally vibes to me like he always does as town. now, there is a note here that i've never seen andres as scum so i cannot exactly say how tonally similar the two are, but it's a point in his favour.

then, posts like 593 and 601. i don't think scum!andres posts this. at that point, rtp is already voting laplacian. why does he put himself in this position where he is forced to vote his ow partner? not only that, he is PRAISING rtp's d1 reads. why??? but, for the sake of argument, let's say that he has to do that, because if he doesn't, rtp will realize andres isn't being his usual self and will kill him. okay. the reason why andres doesn't strike me as a busser here is because andres never said *anything* about laplacian. his whole reason for voting lap was because rtp is voting there and so that he can sort rtp with that. i think scum in his position would be very likely to, if they're forced to bus, to make up bullshit on why they actually definitely think lap is scum. because this way, they are helpng the wagon along, but once people look back at his play, they're gonna think how andres didn't actually *push* the wagon, which automatically makes his vote weigh much much less.

the other option for scum!andres would be to vote the wagon, not help it along, and look for an opening away from that wagon and to vote someone else. he didn't do this. i really think scum that's bussing is going to be doing either of those things - either maximising the clout they get from the flip, or looking for another opening to attack elsewhere. frogster did both, and at the times it made no sense, andres did neither. i just. i just don't think there's scum in these two. because like, if andres has lowkey given up on the game, why even help the wagon on his buddy along in the first place? if he's helping it along, why not give it more reasoning than "idk lol i wanna sort rtp"? it makes no sense

---

this is probably gonna be the most of my effort for the next 2 and a half days, because, uh. will be a bit busy. i'll definitely still be around and paying attention, but yeah.

[MathBlade]

Effort is NAI. Sorry. I tend to put more effort as scum than town because working with people who don’t want to listen infuriates me and I either blow up or just sheep.