Mini 199 - Time Travel Mafia, Game Over!

[Someone]

I'm going to

vote changeling bob

Since I have cleared nox and Gapsode, either him or fishbulb (or both) must be scum.

[Someone]

I'm going to

vote changeling bob

Since I have cleared nox and Gapsode, either him or fishbulb (or both) must be scum.

If you choose to believe me, then we lynch him today, fishbulb tomorrow, for a guarenteed town win.

[Nox]

Alright then.

Vote : Changeling Bob

[Changling bob]

Whoa whoa whoa.

Firstly, there is no e in my name. Changling bob. Because I can spell

To go back a few posts:

Ok, I'll claim now. I'm the

time sage

. Once per game, I have the ability to ask a yes or no question to the mod.

I asked him, if as of night three, are at least one of these three people alive and scum:

nox, gaspode and SO.

The answer was no. Therefore, these three people are pro-town.

Firstly, this brings the cop-gets-killed-retroactively-but-his-info-doesn't problem with it. If you were now killed night one, we would still have this information.
Secondly, a single yes or no question? That seems very powerful when it can be used to determine a setup.
Thirdly, SO is dead. Why ask about if he is alive and scum? The answer for him is always going to be no.

Next, it must be one of fishbulb and me. Or you. You are not cleared yourself. Hence, it could be anyone.

Arg. I'm

sort of beginning to inch against

Changling bob, for previously mentionned accusations... Ill post later on.

(emphasis mine)
With three to lynch, I'd rather answer questions that you give me before getting to two votes, as scum could easily place the last vote and get me lynched. Especially if you are only beginning to inch against me.

I'm going to have to

Vote: Nox

. With three to lynch you shouldn't have put a second vote shouldn't be on me as it makes it too easy for me to be killed, therefore putting the town a whole assload closer to a loss, as at this stage in the game, we may be close to a loss given we don't get scum confirmed on death. I'd rather you explain your suspisions before flinging a vote to put me so close to a lynch. I will retract my vote when you do.

[Nox]

First off, since I know I'm innocent myself(I too will claim, I am a mere

townie

, with just a little time fuel. I could shield myself from beeing nightkilled on 1 pre-agreed night), I'm convinced of Someone's honesty at this point. What he claimed is highly plausible, he's not an important pro-town power role, which could explain why he volunteered himself to be the 3 out of the lynching bandwagon: He thought that he was'nt

that

important. However, we see that he used his power earlier, perhaps in case of beeing lynched too soon; He could still benefit the town. Anyways, this beeing said...

I must agree with the fact that you did indeed back up Mr.Stoofer quite alot during this game. As I still firmly believe that he is scum, this puts you in an not-so good position, with Someone's results from his question. While you had some good points(Which could be an illusion from mere good play), I found that Fishbulb seemed less scummy. Of course , there's the chance that you could both be scum, but that is less probable, however, I do not rule out the possibility of several killing groups, etc.

I'm not unvoting because of a simple OMGUS.

[Fishbulb]

I'm convinced of Someone's honesty at this point. What he claimed is highly plausible...

Well, it better be plausible since he came out with the information. But it's just as likely that he is lying and came up with a "plausible" claim as it is that he was given the role. (I don't agree that it it plausible, however, as it doesn't make much sense to me in the context of this game.)

he's not an important pro-town power role, which could explain why he volunteered himself to be the 3 out of the lynching bandwagon: He thought that he was'nt

that

important.

Again, I disagree. This is a very powerful role as we have just seen. It has the potential of being a mega-cop.

I was sure of the Changling bob and Mr Stoofer connection, and it definitely still bugs me, but this new development takes center stage for me. It seems to me that we have Someone coming up with just the right information to have the next two lynches pre-programmed for us. He's completely solved the game. Isn't that just a little too perfect? And Nox's lack of questioning is what makes it most troubling. I don't care how scummy Changling bob is, I'm not going to take information like this without questioning the source.

This is just the perfect scum claim. Great amount of information to narrow the lynches down to two candidates. He tells us that if he's wrong about the first one, then he's definitely right about the second. He has no possible way of proving this ability until the game is completely over. And there's nothing left for him to do but sit back and point at the two of us.

So now the question is whether Nox is in on this or not...

[Nox]

Maybe powerful, but not

vital

. Like a cop, his information will not be necessarily be believed, therefore the information may not be used to the town's advantage. What I meant is that as opposed to a doctor, who can go back in time to revive townies, he's less important.

I've claimed once already, I'll claim again.

I'm a townie

.

[Someone]

The thing is, if I had my way, the game would be over...the fact remains that I have to convince you guys of that.

Firstly, this brings the cop-gets-killed-retroactively-but-his-info-doesn't problem with it. If you were now killed night one, we would still have this information.

Since I am a time sage, my info transcends all the killings and stuff. That is part of the reason that I included SO. It doesn't really do anything. I just wanted to keep tabs on him just in case he would be revived. (I would get a PM from the mod changing my answer.)

How is a yes/no question over-powerful? I got lucky for surviving to the end-game, when it gets slightly more powerful...but I am really just a less powerful form of the cop. The more people I try to clear at once, the more of a chance I have for my results to be meaningless, think about it...

The fact that I can not be confirmed, means that my role was not very important at all...at least compared to a time-doc, or the coroner in the original games.

I'd like to hear more from the last alive player. Perhaps a mini-prod/reminder is in order?

I'm pretty convinced that bob is our last scum. He's deflecting the accusations on him in a way that makes no sense at all. Why vote nox? If you think I'm town, then nox should be too. If I'm scum, then why vote nox, who you are not sure of? Why not vote me?

I'll

unvote:changling bob

. I didn't expect a second vote so quick. That doesn't mean I find him any less scummy or anything.

[Changling bob]

unvote: Nox

I voted Noz because he put me a scum vote away from a lynch, and wasn't over happy with that situation.

And yes you are lucky that you got to the end-game given your claimed role, but then the same could be true of anyone claiming anything else. I don't like the way that, as fishbulb points out, you have dictated to us what our last two lynches should be, with no way of verifying that until the game is over. If you and Nox were hypothetically scum together, then you would win and town would lose.

OK, so your information transcends normal time. Handy that . I still don't like how you include SO. He is unlikely to be resurrected, as either three people would have to be killed retroactively, or two people killed and two people revived retroactively. Thats an awful lot of night actions that all have to go the town's way for it to happen. Why not pick a death from last night, who is far more likely to be revived?

[Changling bob]

I voted Noz because he put me a scum vote away from a lynch, and wasn't over happy with that situation.

I meant Nox obv

[Someone]

Because A) I thought SO was scum and B I didn't want another person to be revived and to screw up my plan. I purposely only chose two people to search, because any more, and my chances of success got worse.

The fact that it was so hard to revive SO played right into my hands. I didn't have to worry about him waking up an screwing my chances.

And yes you are lucky that you got to the end-game given your claimed role, but then the same could be true of anyone claiming anything else.

I'm just saying that my role-power is a lot stronger than it seems now that we are in end-game.

I don't like the way that, as fishbulb points out, you have dictated to us what our last two lynches should be, with no way of verifying that until the game is over. If you and Nox were hypothetically scum together, then you would win and town would lose.

Well, what else am I supposed to say? Oh, I know who the rest of the scum are...but you don't

have

to lynch them if you don't want to...

It all hinges on whether you believe me, I guess.

[Changling bob]

So why not only look at two people, rather than two plus SO?

[Someone]

Again, insurance.

Worst-case scenario- SO stays dead, and I'm basically looking at two people
Best-case scenario- SO somehow get's revived, and I can get another investigation\

The question is, why not two plus SO?

[Nox]

Perhaps we should'nt argue over the number of people he chose to investigate; The important part is that his investigation did not fail, is it not?

[Gaspode]

Sorry to Someone and everyone else for not posting (although I did mention my busy week at the beginning of the day).

Anyway, I don't like the looks of Someone's claim. As Fishbulb said, it's a little too convenient. Also, this would not only be the perfect claim for scum, but the perfect time for a scum claim. On top of this, "time sage" doesn't seem like something Cam would put in the game. Again, we have the time-cop paradox issue, and all your responses to questions are a little convenient. "My info transcends all the killings and stuff?" And the SO thing--while it makes a lot of sense the way you explain it, it could be all made up.

I need some time to think this over, because Bob is far from perfect himself. Someone's claim just seems too convenient, though.

[Someone]

Perhaps a mass claim is in order?

[Nox]

Hmm hmm.
For the third time, I'm a

townie

.

[Someone]

I do not think that my claim is as convinient as you guys think it is.

If you're assuming that I'm scum with nox or gaspode, I don't need two wrong lynches to win, just one. Why throw doubt upon it by making it possible that the lynch is wrong?

If I'm scum alone, then it makes a bit more sense. However, I am taking a big risk because because if we have a vig amist us, and the day doesn't end the game. There's a good chance that I'll be dead before day dawns.



As for doubts about my role, that's what it is. Again, my info transcends the timelines. Mathcam has been trying to incorporate an investigative role in for a long time. If you don't believe me, there's not much I can do. All I can ask is that you think about it.

And again, mass claim?

[Gaspode]

I will claim if everyone agrees a mass claim is a good idea. I'm not sure it's completely needed, as I think it's possible to figure out a decent amount from the thread--if my guesses on role types (i.e. townie/non) are correct, it's just about separating the good non-townies from the bad. But if Fishbulb and Bob agree it would help the town (obviously Someone and Nox do), then I'll be glad to join in.

Also, something I meant to point out to Bob before: Nox's vote wasn't that dangerous, as there are no instantaneous lynches in this game. You don't need to worry until the deadline gets close (I suggest we PM for an extension).

And the convenience of Someone's claim was not about the lynch setup (although that seemed to be an added bonus). It was more the timing and type of claim. The role is pretty much unconfirmable, and first thing today was the

perfect

time for scum to claim, because it puts all the pressure on everyone else (especially late in the game like this).

And if everyone actually did trust you, you would have two days and nights to live, since your scenario only requires one of Fishbulb or Bob to be scum. The vig situation is not likely--if a vig believes you now, you'll probably survive the night.

By the way, Someone, can you find me somewhere mathcam has implied that he's "been trying to incorporate an investigative role" into a Time Travel Mafia? I briefly looked, and he seemed to think that this type of game was better off without them.

[Gaspode]

I will claim if everyone agrees a mass claim is a good idea. I'm not sure it's completely needed, as I think it's possible to figure out a decent amount from the thread--if my guesses on role types (i.e. townie/non) are correct, it's just about separating the good non-townies from the bad. But if Fishbulb and Bob agree it would help the town (obviously Someone and Nox do), then I'll be glad to join in.

Also, something I meant to point out to Bob before: Nox's vote wasn't that dangerous, as there are no instantaneous lynches in this game. You don't need to worry until the deadline gets close (I suggest we PM for an extension).

And the convenience of Someone's claim was not about the lynch setup (although that seemed to be an added bonus). It was more the timing and type of claim. The role is pretty much unconfirmable, and first thing today was the

perfect

time for scum to claim, because it puts all the pressure on everyone else (especially late in the game like this).

And if everyone actually did trust you, you would have two days and nights to live, since your scenario only requires one of Fishbulb or Bob to be scum. The vig situation is not likely--if a vig believes you now, you'll probably survive the night.

By the way, Someone, can you find me somewhere mathcam has implied that he's "been trying to incorporate an investigative role" into a Time Travel Mafia? I briefly looked, and he seemed to think that this type of game was better off without them.

[Changling bob]

Also, something I meant to point out to Bob before: Nox's vote wasn't that dangerous, as there are no instantaneous lynches in this game. You don't need to worry until the deadline gets close (I suggest we PM for an extension).

That completely slipped my mind. I'm in two other mafia games in various places and running a third, and seeing nearly half the votes on me makes me think I'm near a lynch.

I extend my apologies to Nox.

[Someone]

By the way, Someone, can you find me somewhere mathcam has implied that he's "been trying to incorporate an investigative role" into a Time Travel Mafia? I briefly looked, and he seemed to think that this type of game was better off without them.

I know I've read it somewhere...I'll try to find it for you.

[mathcam]

Thanks for your patience while I was away. Discussion is good, and I haven't had a chance to get caught up, so we'll have an indefinite deadline extension until I get a post count done (the next day or so) and a feel for how long the extension should be.

Cam

[Someone]

Hmm...still looking for where I saw mathcam leaning towards incorporating a cop role...

All that I've found so far is that there was a significant demand for a cop if you read the last page of TT1...

[Fishbulb]

I hate these situations. I felt Changling bob was the scummiest from the start, but that's what Someone would be going for in this kind of scheme: the player most of us would agree to lynch. It seems so easy, but that's the problem, it rarely is this easy.

I keep going back to how Someone played this. Why reveal all so suddenly? Why not see where the town is going before trying to push us in a direction? I was all ready to vote for Changling bob anyway.