Mini 1348- Dragon Ball Z: Saiyan Saga Mafia (Game Over)

[Thor665]

Nah, you're just use to me in newbies where I try to be nicer and handwalk people through my reads. You're supposed to be all grown up now and able to follow the flow.

Quick answer is Matt, BK, and Yates.
I'm pretty sure I *explicitly* stated the Matt and Yates ones, so...y'know, read m0ar.

[Thor665]

Back on topic, why MattP, why Acosmist?

For being on the wagon and being the wagon. Aco hasn't acted in a way that makes him look town yet, so is still viable as a lynch, and Matt had the most scummy vote to grow the wagon and thus is the same thing.

- Thor - in the three slot? Is this pressure or did you and Ben see something I didn't? *Or* is this a lulz vote from the game Acosmist is moderating that you were just killed in?

It was pressure, no joke about it - he had the most votes at the point I came into the game and I wanted to keep that energy going to see what happened.

Yates can also be town now methinks.

Looking, I only explicitly stated Yates, but you'd have to be kinda dense not to be able to tell my stance on Matt - so I'll keep the troll response in play.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Fair enough. I'll go through and read more closely.

[Bricktoes]

Thor, I mostly played with you in 1208 which was lost in the crash. I don't think I've mentioned much about anything about isoing as either alignment, but I'll check.

I never "claimed that people would fake flavor knowledge." I said they could, and didn't see how knowing what people's exposure was would help at all.

[Bricktoes]

In the games I still have on site, I only mention isos here where I was scum, just a little after where I started isos in this game. Given that half my games were lost and I haven't been back since the crash, my town play is most comparable to here where I didn't do isos, but really should have.

[Bricktoes]

Anyone who knows if there's backups and cares to see my play between those two can look up Newbie 1201 and Open 362, but I don't know if those will help you.

[Slandaar]

Dick: you dont seem as confident here; Your bluntness is nowhere to be seen.

Psyche is some crazy guy who doesn't have a clue why he does what he does... is this a scum trait? probably not. Hes just being too careless.

MattP is right re Aco, I basically had the same opinion. Acos mindset is town re threatening lynches because in his mind hes in the right. Its hard to fake especially when you don't know how it will be interpreted.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dicknose

[Yates]

You're breaking my balls, Yates.

Why do you think it important to clear away the ambiguity and WIFOM that I've tried to create?

Because at this point I'm trying to figure out if your motivation is scum or Town driven. If you were gunning for "ambiguity and WIFOM" then mission accomplished; you just need to know that along with that ambiguity and WIFOM comes suspicion and distrust.

And as to this point:

I'm not experienced enough to know what my behaviors are supposed to do.

You've been here longer than I have. I understand that you can get lost in the meta shuffle when those conversations start [as I often do] but that's not an excuse for weird or poorly thought out gambits. That kind of play is indistinguishable between noob Town and noob Scum. And honestly at this point, I think you need to take the training wheels off and accept the fact you aren't a noob forever. Trial by fire, dude.

Anyway, in case I didn't make it clear, I will not be voting for you today p-much as a result of this gambit. But you need to know that even though I'm tabling this for today, you'll need to answer to Town tomorrow because this will be revisited.

Now, what's the case on Dicknose? Meta? I'm going to take another look now that I'm less distracted.

[Yates]

Dicknose wagon assessment... No sir, I don't like it.

MattP - his 152 [and I'm voting MattP]
BK201 - because of post 117 [flavor knowledge post] which I have already stated is crap
Slandar - his 231 [meta post] is the only slightly valid reason but meta alone is not enough for a day 1 vote

[Yates]

Spoiler tag fail. That was supposed to look like this:

Dicknose wagon assessment... No sir, I don't like it.

Spoiler:

MattP - his 152 [and I'm voting MattP]
BK201 - because of post 117 [flavor knowledge post] which I have already stated is crap
Slandar - his 231 [meta post] is the only slightly valid reason but meta alone is not enough for a day 1 vote

[pappums rat]

Votecount 1.4

Acosmist - 1 (Benmage)
Thor665 - 1 (JohnnyFarrar)
Psyche - 3 (Acosmist, Thor665, dicknose)
MattP - 1 (Yates)
dicknose - 3 (MattP, BK201, Slandaar)
JohnnyFarrar - 1 (PeregrineV)

Not voting - (Agent_Ireland, iDanyBoy, Psyche)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is 1 AM EST on July 5, 2012.

[Bricktoes]

Dick: you dont seem as confident here; Your bluntness is nowhere to be seen.

You don't know my meta well enough if you think I'd play intentionally different from my town play. You can take this as a "would I do this as scum?" defense, but it obviously isn't working for me in this game and I'd already learned that in Newbie 1173.

[Thor665]

@Yates - the weird thing is I feel Slandaar had the worst vote (maybe confirm bias from my town reads though) but penis proboscis going through his own games and providing no meta helpful evidence...and then sharing that felt like a decent town tell to me. Then Slandaar comes in and votes him for not seeming blunt and honest enough? How much more blunt and honest could he have been right there? Doesn't compute.

@Slandaar - what is the example of 'not blunt and honest' you're seeing here. He seemed fairly honest just now and I didn't feel like he was hiding anything in flowery language. What am I missing?

[Psyche]

I'm not a noob!!!! I'm just trying out new things! Is that so difficult to understand?

[Thor665]

I thought we understood it quite well and had addressed where you were failing at it - what's your read on dicknose?

[Yates]

@Yates - the weird thing is I feel Slandaar had the worst vote (maybe confirm bias from my town reads though) but penis proboscis going through his own games and providing no meta helpful evidence...and then sharing that felt like a decent town tell to me. Then Slandaar comes in and votes him for not seeming blunt and honest enough? How much more blunt and honest could he have been right there? Doesn't compute.

I guess we can wait for Slandaar's answer to your follow up and reassess. On the face of it, meta holds more value to me than the flavor knowledge "tell" that seems to be the primary tenet of Matt and BK's votes. I don't have Dicknose has Town [have him entirely null right now] so I don't *think* I have any confirmation bias to make any of their votes scummy. I just don't understand them [their votes].

Also, why do you have MattP as Town again?

I'm not a noob!!!! I'm just trying out new things! Is that so difficult to understand?

Oh *we* get it. I just wanted to make sure *you* got it. Post 203 sounded like you were dropping the noob card. Thank you for removing that card from the deck. Now you can't play it later.

Much more importantly, do you have a response to my larger point [the first one]? To restate; do you understand why you will need to answer for post 147 later [now that you have had time to review your play]?

[Thor665]

MattP is town for the aggressive placing of BK as town. It's either normal and good town play or a fairly advanced scum maneuver. Considering the stage the game was in I'm predicting it's not the latter.

[Slandaar]

You don't know my meta well enough if you think I'd play intentionally different from my town play. You can take this as a "would I do this as scum?" defense, but it obviously isn't working for me in this game and I'd already learned that in Newbie 1173.

Is it intentional?

You think i'm voting you because I think you are

intentionally

playing different to your town meta?

What am I missing?

Whats all this about honesty? Where did you get this from?

[Yates]

Dicknose for Dummies:

Spoiler:

1. First post is an RVS vote on Acosmist [first on]
2. Fast forward 16 hours and 110 posts later and he places his second post wondering why BK voted for Psyche
3. He adds his infamous flavor knowledge post [117] a couple of minutes later
4, 5, and 6. All softball questions of little apparent substance
8. His post 156 actually made me lol. MattP *did* call dicknose scum for being passive in the beginning of his case and aggressive at the end of his case. That's the first thing I noticed when I was reading through and it made me question the value of Matt's "case" on dicknose.
9. Is a reasonable defense for a player with a wagon filling.
10. He has a point re BK doing a lot of following early on. I don't know what the point is, exactly, but it's accurate.
11, 12, and 13. Back and forth with BK
14 and 15. I don't have a problem with him reviewing people in ISO. That's what I'm doing to him right now [with the context of having read the rest of the game fresh in my mind]. And, really, the fact he didn't OMGUS on MattP or sheep Thor on Psyche means if he is scum, he's a cool customer. So I'll be keeping track of what rattles him [like his back and forth with BK].
16. Then he immediately undoes any Town cred I started to give him by sheeping Thor and voting Psyche.
17, 18, 19, 20, 21, and 22. All back and forth with Thor discussing his meta and games where he did ISO's. He was forthcoming with info showing where he only did an ISO as scum as his Town games were eaten by Tigers. I'm a little gun shy on this one as I helped lynch someone in a game [ongoing so can't discuss] where they did something similar and their only meta was scum and they flipped Town.
23. Most recent post is accurate. I don't think Slandaar has enough meta knowledge to make his vote strong enough to sheep.

Overall, his play is completely overwhelmingly null. There isn't anything in his ISO that screams scum OR Town [that he didn't already counter with his own actions]. So, unless you think his post 117 is scummy and combine that with his Psyche sheep vote, I don't see where he is any scummier than MattP, Acosmist, or even Psyche.

[Slandaar]

I'm not a noob!!!! I'm just trying out new things! Is that so difficult to understand?

I think trying to draw scumtells from an RVS wagon could take us down a bad path.

What was the point of the RVS wagon then?

Explain then.

RVS wagons != new

[Thor665]

Whats all this about honesty? Where did you get this from?

Replace honesty with confidence - I miscalled your point.

Now, please show me where he's lacking confidence and bluntness.

[Slandaar]

Too much work to explain in depth

If you want to see the difference read through; this Or the whole game to get a feel of context.

For example this his second post, read the tone, then read the linked, difference is clear. Why did you do this and this nd this and this... it goes on and on.
Its waffling, not bluntness; to the point etc.

And I chose that post because its the first one in his ISO to demonstrate, not that its the best one to do so with.

Even the afamed 117 post is waffling. Like that is the issue basically.
158 is another

OK im stopping there

The difference is pretty clear if you read the linked game.

What I would like to know Thor, is why when dick basically owns up to the differences, you are wasting time getting me to explain this?

[Thor665]

Because I think I have a read on dickie-boy and I haveno read at all on you - why *shouldn't* I be trying to understand where you're coming from?

[Thor665]

Looking over the two ISOs I don't really notice the difference.

@dicknose - you agree there's a difference? Why is that?

[PeregrineV]

I'm mostly skimming because I'm mad that there are people in this round who don't know DBZ.

Vote: Johnny

bleh. I think your reason is stupid.

I agree with Matt about Dicknose's 117. Claiming that people would fake flavor knowledge seems unnecessary and odd. I'll read Dicknose later though.

I'm actually pretty comfortable with my vote staying on Thor. - Thor, I don't know if you're just lazy this round, but 144 doesn't seem like you (not the vote, the rest of it). Normally for me, establishing town players is a town trait, but you say you have town reads without saying who any of them are. It's confusingly weird for you.

It would be reasons with an -s, and Thor vote is another.