Mini 1449 - Ordinary Town

[Varsoon]

Hapa, I'm currently engaged in a really big ISO post write-up in my other game, but I want to let you know that your posts put a big smile on my face. It's cool to finally see a pro-town player who is simultaneously outspoken, considerate, and not cynical.

That said, I like your work in 224 even more than your defense of me. You're raising specific points and asking them of your scum suspect. I really agree with this approach, and this is how I would be playing this week had I the time and energy.

[hapahauli]

@ Scott

I dislike a lot in your last two posts, enough to make me question whether or not I should be voting you instead of Toomai.

I post when I can, I try to post every day. I am extremely busy this week.

Being obsessed with everyone's post count will lead you nowhere.

My concern is that you unvoted immediately after a single post saying I GUESS WE CAN EXPECT MORE CONTENT! Yet after I post its HEY GONNA POST MORE?! My issue is with you treating people differently for similar circumstances. So to fawn to your demands, the answer is yes.

Firstly I heavily object to the bolded. Activity is pathetic in this thread, and since no one else is bothering, I have to do whatever I can to make people talk. Your lack of any sense of urgency in this regard is alarming.

I don't understand the unvote and lack of revote if that is all that sticks out. This is not town behavior.

This is also really silly. If you spent all of two minutes reading ac1983fan's post, it's clear that he unvoted because he has doubts about who he wants to place a vote on.

You're trying to spread suspicion on him for absolutely nonsensical and forced reasoning.

--------------------------------
As a last point, your entire suspicion of Varsoon is very sketchy.

This whole post reads as careful scum. Just no real concrete reads, somewhat excuse for lack of scumhunting with the "preference of a Day 1 flip". Then the admittance of not seeming town just looks like it wants pity or wants to appear town.

Unvote
Vote: Varsoon

For interest level, active lurking is much more interesting than lurking. Varsoon was posting filler with no strong reads or opinions at all. This was followed up by a sneery list of baseless reads.

Firstly, I find this rationale fairly weak. You initially voted Varsoon because you didn't like one of his posts. That's not adequate.

And now you come with the active-lurking accusation... but

dont' you realize that Varsoon is the 2nd most active player in the game right now?!

Your entire "pursuit" of Varsoon feels scummy to me. You've never asked him any questions, and it doesn't seem like you're interested in finding out his allignment. You're spending infinitely more time going after

everyone else

other than Varsoon. Hell you've asked me more questions than you've asked of your top scumread, which is all sorts of nonsensical.

[hapahauli]

I would disagree with me giving half a dick about this game. I simply have a little experience in regards to this type of mafia. The reason I am voting Nic is because he has just been wrenching at my gut for quite a while now and he is giving me no reason not to. Something doesn't register right with him. Finals or not if true is understandable, but that still doesn't keep me from being suspicious of him. I also don't trust Scott so much because in my opinion a lot what he says seems scummy.

And I'm the only one to draw some attention to you for sheeping and providing nothing, and conveniently I'm a new scum read! Very interesting.

Oh and this. Why are you taking credit for something you didn't do? People (such as I) were talking about Daemon far before this. If you can even call the following "going after" Daemon:

Out of everything that has happened since your previous post to this one, THIS is the one point you make?

Yeah you totally called him out there bro.

[Cheery Pie]

As far as reading goes, read this:
I'm town.

I read that as possible scum trying the easy option of getting pressure off them.
There's not going to be lie detecter in this game, so why bother stating this

three

times, what benefit does it give the "town" you?

I would disagree with me giving half a dick about this game. I simply have a little experience in regards to this type of mafia. The reason I am voting Nic is because he has just been wrenching at my gut for quite a while now and he is giving me no reason not to. Something doesn't register right with him. Finals or not if true is understandable, but that still doesn't keep me from being suspicious of him. I also don't trust Scott so much because in my opinion a lot what he says seems scummy.

And I'm the only one to draw some attention to you for sheeping and providing nothing, and conveniently I'm a new scum read! Very interesting.

Is there a post somewhere we're missing of you doing this

Because if it's only 214, I'm confused on how this is working, when you haven't been the only person to mention Daemon has provided nothing.

Though I'm just as baffled by Daemon's response to this, seeing as so far the only mentions of him by everyone have been a lack of useful content.

[Toomai]

Dyslexicon:

In the background

Didn't like the last part of 93. 117 was decent but then 176/7.

You can't just link random posts and expect people to understand what you're saying.

WHY

don't you like posts 93 and 176?

WHY

do you like post 117?

Furthermore, what does "In the Background" even mean? Is he scummy or townie?

#93: "Seems like votes are flying high anyways. Keep it up sports!" gives me the impression that he wants to hang back and let other people do the work for him.
#117: "Nope, didn't have any questions really." was kind of lame, but the questions he asked at the end of the post seemed reasonable. Hence "decent" but not "good".
#176/7: Chain-sheeping and noting a lot of agreement, then not following up on it.
I don't really have much but a null/very weak scum. He's been too uninvolved for me to get much.

hp[leaves]:

Pretty much null

About even between town content and scum content I feel.

Where's the scum-content in hp's filter? Again you can't just say it exists and not point to it at all.

He initially picked NicCage off the GCBC wagon and gave no reason (RVS was over at this point, I'm pretty sure). He later called me scum with NicCage, again with no reason.

NicCage:

Ugh

Bad start, but not anything to go on since then, and I don't really update my reads much when people aren't posting. Still on my shortlist; won't vote him right now because of reasons previously stated (don't need a lynch for a few more days).

Why "Ugh" and not "scum?" I don't understand the distinction.

"Ugh" here is used in the sense of "done scummy things, few posts, everyone's on him; but it seems too easy". (I just copy-pasted what I have in the list here and apparently neglected to expand.)

Scott Brosius:

Not bad

Mainly good stuff so far.

What's good in his filter? I think it's awful (for reasons I'll explain later).

I think I can just iterate through his ISOs:

1. "Wagon time!" Didn't like it initially but it's just like any other RVS reason.
2. Made logical points.
3. Mostly found this to be null. Nothing in there that reads either way.
4. Calls out reasonless reads, gives a pair of townish reads and a pair of bad posts.
5. Parts 1 and 3 were kinda meh; part 2 was not bad.
6. I originally thought this was a null post, but your 227 made me realize otherwise - while Daemon did post about being suspicious of SB in 211, he didn't say it was a "new scumread"; it could have been one he held previously and didn't bring it out until then.

Daemon385:

Ehh

Hasn't really done anything of notewortiness.[/list]

Why "Ehh"? If someone hasnt' done anything a week into the game, I'd probably be more suspicious of them than "ehh..."

I still have him tied for bottom 4; it's not like I'm ignoring him. Probably again a case of not fully expanding notes.

[Daemon385]

Scott Brosius:

Not bad

Mainly good stuff so far.

What's good in his filter? I think it's awful (for reasons I'll explain later).

I think I can just iterate through his ISOs:

1. "Wagon time!" Didn't like it initially but it's just like any other RVS reason.
2. Made logical points.
3. Mostly found this to be null. Nothing in there that reads either way.
4. Calls out reasonless reads, gives a pair of townish reads and a pair of bad posts.
5. Parts 1 and 3 were kinda meh; part 2 was not bad.
6. I originally thought this was a null post, but your 227 made me realize otherwise -
   while Daemon did post about being suspicious of SB in 211, he didn't say it was a "new scumread"; it could have been one he held previously and didn't bring it out until then.

That is true because it wasn't a new scum read. I've had suspicion on him and NicCage and neither of which have given me much reason to think other wise.

[ac1983fan]

I don't understand the unvote and lack of revote if that is all that sticks out. This is not town behavior.

Shh anyone who has played with me before (and there are indeed a few in this game) knows that I am a conservative voter and frequently have no vote out when I do not think it is appropriate so this is not a scumtell for me it is just playstyle

I unvoted Daemon because his behavior since my vote has made him seem more like just a noob than noobscum.

Hey, ACfan,
Vote for Toomai,
It's a good wagon.

Shh I do what I want

[Scott Brosius]

@ Scott

I dislike a lot in your last two posts, enough to make me question whether or not I should be voting you instead of Toomai.

I post when I can, I try to post every day. I am extremely busy this week.

Being obsessed with everyone's post count will lead you nowhere.

My concern is that you unvoted immediately after a single post saying I GUESS WE CAN EXPECT MORE CONTENT! Yet after I post its HEY GONNA POST MORE?! My issue is with you treating people differently for similar circumstances. So to fawn to your demands, the answer is yes.

Firstly I heavily object to the bolded. Activity is pathetic in this thread, and since no one else is bothering, I have to do whatever I can to make people talk. Your lack of any sense of urgency in this regard is alarming.

I don't understand the unvote and lack of revote if that is all that sticks out. This is not town behavior.

This is also really silly. If you spent all of two minutes reading ac1983fan's post, it's clear that he unvoted because he has doubts about who he wants to place a vote on.

You're trying to spread suspicion on him for absolutely nonsensical and forced reasoning.

--------------------------------
As a last point, your entire suspicion of Varsoon is very sketchy.

This whole post reads as careful scum. Just no real concrete reads, somewhat excuse for lack of scumhunting with the "preference of a Day 1 flip". Then the admittance of not seeming town just looks like it wants pity or wants to appear town.

Unvote
Vote: Varsoon

For interest level, active lurking is much more interesting than lurking. Varsoon was posting filler with no strong reads or opinions at all. This was followed up by a sneery list of baseless reads.

Firstly, I find this rationale fairly weak. You initially voted Varsoon because you didn't like one of his posts. That's not adequate.

And now you come with the active-lurking accusation... but

dont' you realize that Varsoon is the 2nd most active player in the game right now?!

Your entire "pursuit" of Varsoon feels scummy to me. You've never asked him any questions, and it doesn't seem like you're interested in finding out his allignment. You're spending infinitely more time going after

everyone else

other than Varsoon. Hell you've asked me more questions than you've asked of your top scumread, which is all sorts of nonsensical.

If you want to be the participation police that is fine. There are going to be lurkers in every game you play.

Regarding acfan, I don't understand why anyone who is town would not use their vote. I understand why he unvoted, but he presents a new read on Dyslex, yet does not act on that, just simply unvotes.

If you understand the definition of active-lurking, then you wouldn't be citing his post total. I understand why you are defending Varsoon since he has pretty much been your puppy dog all game, but there is no content there outside of sheeping whatever you think. But apparently that makes him town to you...

There are various ways to scumhunt, not everyone needs to follow your formula. Varsoon has done absolutely nothing to sway my opinion.

[hapahauli]

@ Toomai

I really, really like your last post (#229). It's well thought out and well written. Unfortunately I don't like the amount I have to prod you in order to provide such analysis.

There is still one thing I'd like you to elaborate on:

I still have him tied for bottom 4; it's not like I'm ignoring him. Probably again a case of not fully expanding notes.

Can you please expand on Daemon?

------
Also, one of the general problems I have with your play is your lack of initiative. Other than me having to pull reads out of you, I don't get any sense from your posting that you're trying to determine players' allignments. You've asked barely any questions all game. And even the ones you do...

...
I want these things answered:

• 19: Was this a serious (non-RVS) vote, and if so why?
• 39: Why did you only sheepvote NicCage after he asked why he was being singled out?

You said "no nulls". Did you squish your reads into the boolean format just to get rid of nulls, or do you actually have no nulls?

...I never see you follow up on them, or even factor them into your reads.

[hapahauli]

@ Cheery Pie

Y u no be active, I miss you =(

In all seriousness, I have no idea where you stand read-wise since your pursuit of me in the early game. Can you give me an idea of your scumreads at the moment?

[hapahauli]

@ Scott

If you want to be the participation police that is fine. There are going to be lurkers in every game you play.

There will be lurkers in every game for sure, but that doesn't mean I have to accept them or let that behavior slide. Lurking is incredibly anti-town, and I often heavily weigh my Day 1 lynch decisions to "useless" lurkers (such as yourself).

Regarding acfan, I don't understand why anyone who is town would not use their vote. I understand why he unvoted, but he presents a new read on Dyslex, yet does not act on that, just simply unvotes.

What's so complicated about this? He clearly has scumreads on two players, and is unsure of whom to vote. In fact he's displaying a hesitancy towards the vote that I view as very townie. It's not like he's hesitant out of his ass - he has clear reasons and seems well informed.

That's the situation I'm in as well right now - I'm contemplating unvoting Toomai because I'm finding you quite scummy right now.

If you understand the definition of active-lurking, then you wouldn't be citing his post total. I understand why you are defending Varsoon since he has pretty much been your puppy dog all game, but there is no content there outside of sheeping whatever you think. But apparently that makes him town to you...

Please read post #223 and consider my thoughts on the subject:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4943881

I'm more sensitive towards "scum buddying me" than you think. I'm a very vocal town player, and this stuff happens very often to me. It is the

blatant

manner in which he is buddying me that I find townie. I've seen townies do this in many games (especially busy ones), and scum are generally more mindful/fearful of their reputation to attempt such a move.

There are various ways to scumhunt, not everyone needs to follow your formula. Varsoon has done absolutely nothing to sway my opinion.

Of course there are various ways to scumhunt. However there are also many inadequate ways to scumhunt, and having an abysmally low activity level is one of them.

As for Varsoon, read the post I linked above and get back to me. I might have bought the whole "active lurking" thing a few days ago, but his recent behavior overwhelmingly points to busy townie rather than malicious scum.

[Cheery Pie]

Regarding acfan, I don't understand why anyone who is town would not use their vote

That would most likely be a personal thing then.
Seeing as you also did the same thing regarding Pie's early suspicion of you, but whether votes are in use is never a scumtell for anyone.

@ Cheery Pie

Y u no be active, I miss you =(

In all seriousness, I have no idea where you stand read-wise since your pursuit of me in the early game. Can you give me an idea of your scumreads at the moment?

You definitely are serious about activity levels.

My current scumreads are NicCage, Varsoon and Toomai.

Everyone else is still null or has become a town read.

[hapahauli]

Regarding acfan, I don't understand why anyone who is town would not use their vote

That would most likely be a personal thing then.
Seeing as you also did the same thing regarding Pie's early suspicion of you, but whether votes are in use is never a scumtell for anyone.

@ Cheery Pie

Y u no be active, I miss you =(

In all seriousness, I have no idea where you stand read-wise since your pursuit of me in the early game. Can you give me an idea of your scumreads at the moment?

You definitely are serious about activity levels.

My current scumreads are NicCage, Varsoon and Toomai.

Everyone else is still null or has become a town read.

What do you think of my analysis on Varsoon here:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4943881

Also, can you specify who's town and who's null in your mind?

[Cheery Pie]

What do you think of my analysis on Varsoon here:
viewtopic.php?p=4943881#p4943881

Also, can you specify who's town and who's null in your mind?

Counter acted by that fact of him announcing that he is in fact town twice and the many other placed hints that he's trying to get that opinion forced onto himself.
I'm also not seeing your someone to trust argument as a towntell, but then I'm not in your shoes and don't actually know your alignment as more than an educated guess.

Exact townreads don't actually matter at this stage, but the basic of it and what I just posted are if I'm questioned them somewhere and they're not on my scum reads list, they're being read as town.
(leaving the most recent questions which haven't been answered yet)

I'm only willing to lynch one of the three I mentioned before at the moment, and since I dislike reads lists, you're not going to be getting a complete all at once list out of me. Unless you know exactly how high/down a list a scum buddy would go if such a person was scum, I don't see the point in anyone's reads lists.

[hp [leaves]]

back and catching up

[Toomai]

Can you please expand on Daemon?

He's basically active lurking. In terms of content all he's done is state slight suspicion of two people while giving no solid reasons why.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

Idk where my other half is at right now but I'm needing a reread. I'm going to try it tonight or Monday. Sunday is out

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

-J

[qwints]

Vote Count 1.6

NicCage: Cheery Pie, Jake from Rainbowdash, ɀefiend, Dyslexicon, Daemon385 (5)
Toomai: Hapahauli, Varsoon, hp[leaves], NicCage (4)
Varsoon: Scott Brosius, Toomai (2)
ɀefiend: GoodCopBadCop, (1)
Daemon385: (1)

Not voting -- , ac1983fan (1)

With thirteen alive, it takes seven to lynch

GoodCopBadCop and Dyslexicon have been prodded

Day One ends in (expired on 2013-05-20 12:00:00)

[GoodCopBadCop]

VOTE: varsoon

-bc

[NicCage]

Bc why?

[GoodCopBadCop]

- I agree with BC's Varsoon vote. All his posts are IIoA.
- Scott is slight town due to him having similar thoughts to me.
- Cage is slight scum at best, I don't see good enough reasons to lynch him now. There are more scummy players.

I've read the whole game now.

- GC

[GoodCopBadCop]

Hapa's case on Toomai was okay, not that good though.

[Dyslexicon]

Hai! Got prodded, sorry =/

his vote on NC is basically justified with "well that's the most popular wagon so sounds good"

Actually it's justified with the same reasons as Zef, more or less.

And I'm the only one to draw some attention to you for sheeping and providing nothing, and conveniently I'm a new scum read! Very interesting.

I'm wary of these "hmmm, very interesting"-posts. Implying scumminess without saying it directly. Inviting everyone to question a certain behaviour while avoid responsibility. Not a good colour on you.

#93: "Seems like votes are flying high anyways. Keep it up sports!" gives me the impression that he wants to hang back and let other people do the work for him.
#117: "Nope, didn't have any questions really." was kind of lame, but the questions he asked at the end of the post seemed reasonable. Hence "decent" but not "good".
#176/7: Chain-sheeping and noting a lot of agreement, then not following up on it.
I don't really have much but a null/very weak scum. He's been too uninvolved for me to get much.

I think I've already said something about this. I don't intend to make up stuff if I don't have any. The toughts of agreement that makes me uneasy is what my ESP is picking up, take it or leave it, I'll have it in the back of my mind. I've been uninvolved, yes, I'm here now, hai.

[/quote]I think I can just iterate through his ISOs:

1. "Wagon time!" Didn't like it initially but it's just like any other RVS reason.
2. Made logical points.
3. Mostly found this to be null. Nothing in there that reads either way.
4. Calls out reasonless reads, gives a pair of townish reads and a pair of bad posts.
5. Parts 1 and 3 were kinda meh; part 2 was not bad.
6. I originally thought this was a null post, but your 227 made me realize otherwise - while Daemon did post about being suspicious of SB in 211, he didn't say it was a "new scumread"; it could have been one he held previously and didn't bring it out until then.

Good on scott for making logical points, but both scum and town can do this. I don't see much noteworthy townish in Scotts posts. If your reasoning for thinking "good stuff" includes that he's made logical points and has "not bad" parts and a lot of null, I think that's questionable at best.

I'm leaning town for

daemon

, because I see a naive openness in his posts. Reads townish to me.

Varsoon

is funny, haha. Hapa notes that his blatant offer to sheep is towny. I find it a null tell, it would be a good scum strategy.

I think so far I have a hard time making independent reads, as I find Hapa has a great influence on the game. This is over all a good thing as he gets good information, if he is indeed town, but not exclusively a good thing as both scum and town might fade to the background because of it. Anyway, I'll drink some anti-lurking juice and slap myself into being more active.

[ac1983fan]

Dyslexion, is there a reason you only responded to posts directed at/about you? Excluding the last three or four sentences of that post (248), that is. You didn't find one thing to question or comment directly on since your last post?