Newbie 1471: Italian Ice (Game Over!)

[Nachomamma8]

Guys if read my post, I breadcrumbed JK for a reaction test, and bjc immediately Omgus'd me by saying i'm scum, then ika voting me. Now I'm 50% sure of ika/bjc scumbuddying.

This is probably town.

[AbboTT]

you expected me to put to words my reaction and you found it scummy that I didn't?

I didn't

expect

, but I would have liked it. Keep in mind that I wasn't scum-reading you at that point. Per my 115:

I honestly didn't have any read on nacho until he threw a fit...

So no, I did not find your lone emoticon to be especially scummy. I did, however, see your following content as icky scum scum ick.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: RobW

This is probably scum.

I feel good about ika town and RayFrost town. I feel decently about Abbott town, and LMB town.
I kind of like emerald but nothing too definitive, and bjc is starting to lean scum.

[Nachomamma8]

you expected me to put to words my reaction and you found it scummy that I didn't?

I didn't

expect

, but I would have liked it. Keep in mind that I wasn't scum-reading you at that point. Per my 115:

I honestly didn't have any read on nacho until he threw a fit...

So no, I did not find your lone emoticon to be especially scummy. I did, however, see your following content as icky scum scum ick.

And, as I asked before, where did I throw a fit?

[AbboTT]

I think that the forming a dichotomy between Abbott and I so early is the dangerous sort of reasoning; there is e possibility that both of us just didn't mesh easily this game for no apparent reason.

I have a tendency to create TvT squabbles, for the record.

[AbboTT]

@LMB, can you break down this breadcrumb thing like I'm a total idiot? I just don't get it.

[Nachomamma8]

He made a post where the first letter of his first sentence was "J", and the second letter of his second sentence was "K" in order to see who would try to lynch him. I don't agree with the basis of the reaction test, but the fact that he did it read as pretty fucking town to me.

[AbboTT]

@Nacho: Wednesday evening. The whole chain of posts looked like it was driven by some sort of manufactured emotion to me. I wasn't

just

trying to be inflammatory with my drunk/high comment. I really would have accepted that as a plausible answer lol.

95 & 98: you give two separate commentaries on the same exchange you and I had. Like a drunken guy in an argument, "Aah...ahhnnd another thing!"
96: you curse at bjc.
98: All caps at me. Losing your cool. You proclaim I am the "only decent wagon" (except maybe bjc)


p-edit: I get that, Nacho. But I get what sort of test that would supposedly be. It seems useless. What would it prove? Please. Like I'm a stupid toddler.

[AbboTT]

I

don't

get*

[bjc]

I don't like LMB's play early on. So I'll keep my vote.

Cue ika's vote removal after nacho shows force.

[AbboTT]

Is the idea that he was trying to pretend like he was a PR?

Why would a PR use "JK" as a breadcrumb?

[AbboTT]

OMG. Right. So stupid. Jailkeeper.

It literally took me this long to understand.

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho: Wednesday evening. The whole chain of posts looked like it was driven by some sort of manufactured emotion to me. I wasn't

just

trying to be inflammatory with my drunk/high comment. I really would have accepted that as a plausible answer lol.

95 & 98: you give two separate commentaries on the same exchange you and I had. Like a drunken guy in an argument, "Aah...ahhnnd another thing!"
96: you curse at bjc.
98: All caps at me. Losing your cool. You proclaim I am the "only decent wagon" (except maybe bjc)


p-edit: I get that, Nacho. But I get what sort of test that would supposedly be. It seems useless. What would it prove? Please. Like I'm a stupid toddler.

95 was a catchup post and a response directed at you. 98 was a case and thus directed at everyone except for you.
I swear a lot, it's not an indication if emotion.
Caps isn't losing my cool; it's emphasizing a point. Calling you the only decent wagon doesn't actually mean I'm throwing a fit; it's just my opinion.

[ika]

after reading through, something about nachos last few post are just rubbing me the wrong way, im gonnna go grab them and elaborate and others.

incoming wall post, i need to empty thoughts

[ika]

Something I need to point out to the new players: people defending other people does

not

mean they are scumbuddies. Scumbuddies mostly avoid each other as to not draw attention to them.

I don't really understand all the scumreads ika has been getting. I might say I'm annoyed by his posting but it does feel genuine.

I don't particularly like LMB's entrance, just restating the case that emerald did before. Do give that buttload of evidence, though.

Im reading this post and this is one of those post that rubs me wrong after reading others and responses, Especialy the sencond part about me. It almost feels like you are trying to fencesit here. The last sentance really rubs me wrong if he is jk or think that his breadcumb for fk is not good. I personally disliked it as well due tot he fact on how stuble it was and how he expected everyone to see it. But i see where hes was coming from now.

Something I need to point out to the new players: people defending other people does

not

mean they are scumbuddies. Scumbuddies mostly avoid each other as to not draw attention to them.

The first sentence is correct. The second sentence is not correct. Different scum play differently. Trying to make a general statement about how scum plays can lead to you falling into the trap of "scum play this way so this is a sign that they're town" when really that's a scumtell for that person.

Trying to make scumpair calls before a flip is just not a good idea though. You've got no guaranteed information and trying to see those connections before you do can lead to severe bias with your reads.

Agreed, diffrent players have diffrent ways of interacting with scum buddies. this does bring a good idea for dicussion.

If you are scum, what kind of interactions do you do with your scum buddie(s), do you distance, buddy, bus, ect?

Hardcore defending at the start of day 1 usually means they are not scumbuddies, though.

Really? how so? can you elaborate on that?

Right now im conflicted between Abbott and you. Both of you are claissifed as the higher teir in this game. So i feel like you were trying to stop your train. But at the same accord, your train picked up speed quite quickly for silly reasoning. But others did have an idea.

I figure between abbott and you right now. One of you are scum and the ohter is town. Or this is an elaborate ploy of cross bussing. However i dont think you would take it to that level of play in a newbie game.

We may have plenty of time but right now my 2 primary fos are you and abbott with a smaller one on bjc for big buddying with me. However i will wait a bit and see what others have to say.

I think that the forming a dichotomy between Abbott and I so early is the dangerous sort of reasoning; there is e possibility that both of us just didn't mesh easily this game for no apparent reason. Why do you find me scummy? Why do you find Abbott scummy?

I find that is a possiblity that you guys just didnt mesh, but your current way of just kinda crusing/coasting and random shoutings of "person is town" off gut is odd. I do the same but your seems more confident they are towns. I have seen it that scums will call out towns, towns becasue they KNOW they are town. Not becasue they "think" they are town. Abbott i found scummy early on for somewhat of the same reasoning of just radomly calling you scum and wanting a train on you. There have been many times where i see ppl randomly be called town by scums becasue they knew it. Your gut calls almost feel like that its scum saying ppl are towns becasue they are and know it full well.

[Nachomamma8]

Which calls do you feel are the most random/most weakly supported?

[ika]

@Nacho: I don't have a handle on your playstyle yet. Would you help me understand something? You seem to be the type of player who drops a lot of unsupported reads (So-and-so is scum. So-and-so is incredibly town).

Are these your genuine reads or are you just sharing your gut reactions or current thoughts based on their most recent content?

I am usually very wary of people who declare things with certainty this early in the game. There are but a few people who _know_ who is scum and who is town. Those people are scum. Since townies have no real incentive to lie, that sort of bold posturing puts me off.

They are genuine reads and generally not baseless. I've seen ika scum. I've seen ika town. I don't believe distinguishing between the two is difficult. Other reads are not as strong, but they are still leanings.

This post to me is unsettling becasue of how you are going "ika obvitown" based off so few games with me. The post to me is more saying "im scum and ikas not my scum buddy so hes town"

I have seen that in many games where a well known player i play with goes like that when their usal town play is to go at me with full force and then after a long time go "ok hes town"

here you just kinda went "ika town" i know im town but the speed of you slotting me town is unsettling to me, you have also done this with sevral other players just going "they are town" based off guts, but to me it feels less like a "gut call" and more like a "i know" call.

In nacho's 95 he scolds me for supposedly demanding content from him and then, in the same post, invites ika to call him out if he isn't paying enough attention to the game.

Curious.

I don't think that an extraordinary amount of content will be produced at this stage of the game.

It is fair to call me out if you see me posting elsewhere but not here, because that would be scummy.

Can you elaborate on this im not quite sure i understand what you mean here.

p-edit: let me finish my post dump then i will adress that im breaking it up into sevral posts

[Nachomamma8]

I have a meta read on you based on the site you play at with Titus and my own personal experiences with you. I've found the difference between both games pretty easy to distinguish between and don't think the call is particularly difficult to make (active vs not active). When you play with a player for a while and have a more intimate read of their meta, generally more information tends to obfuscate the read as you're known for reading that player, as you're pressured to read that player. I don't have that player and I don't have an excess of information, hence that read being a fairly easy one for me to make.

I'm saying that my inactivity, when it comes, is because I'm busy. If you have evidence to the contrary, call me out for it. Otherwise, you're just going to have to take me at my word when I say that I'm busy.

[ika]

How the heck did I OMGUS him? Lol... I started this. I am the one pressuring him, remember? Maybe we need to take a step back to page one for a moment.

As for your second paragraph, no. Maybe that's where the other votes are coming from, but that's not my motivation.

You pushed me because "IC wagon" and "OMGUS". I was the first to put actual pressure on.

Why do you think you were the first to put actual pressure on? I do agree his reason was "IC wagon" with possible OMGUS, but even OMGUS is technical pressure no matter how bad it is

No, the credibility is used up when it turns out you were wrong. The old story of the boy who cried wolf. That's all I'm saying.

Forceful is good. Confidence is fine if you really believe what you're saying.

It's over-confidence that bugs me.

Pretending like you _know_ something when in reality you just have a suspicion or a hunch.

Remember this started as a conversation about Nacho and his posts early in the game where he made snap decisions and presented them as fact. If I recall correctly he even directed one at you. "You probably shouldn't vote for town"

Content-less posturing.

Credibility is shot when I'm forceful about a read and that read turns out wrong, yes. So either I'm A) town with good reasoning for ika as town, or B) scum who believes there's a good case to make for ika town. Either way, there's a case for ika as town.

The bolded part is what i feel like is happening, you KNOW the people are town, so you are going "ya town there" and not a "gut town" there. As also stated you went at frost saying dont vote town. But some of your next posts come up contridcting it.

So either I'm A) town with good reasoning for ika as town, or B) scum who believes there's a good case to make for ika town. Either way, there's a case for ika as town.

C) town who is working off a gut reaction and has no good reason
D) town who has just picked someone at random to townread in hopes of starting discussion
E) scum who is bussing
D) scum who is distancing

Please don't present something as a A-B scenario when it could be any number of outcomes.

The commentary with that emoticon was "this accusation is dumb, you're probably not serious I hope".

That's fair and expected. But I don't know you and I can't read your mind. That's all I'm saying.

I'm telling you that C and D aren't true.
E and F dont make sense.

So lets go with C and D are not true. You have eliminated 2 town sloted ideas for yourself and are saying the next 2 are not nessacarly false, but are ridiculous. Are you saying that you are not town here and that you are scum?

[RayFrost]

Ika, I've had games where I ignore my scum buddies, bus them, distance from them, buddy up to them, and done a mix of these for different people. I even had a game where I essentially let myself die in order for a buddy to be a completely solid and beautiful town read.

I don't consistently play well as scum, so naturally that must mean that my playstyle is inconsistent as well.

[ika]

Guys if read my post, I breadcrumbed JK for a reaction test, and bjc immediately Omgus'd me by saying i'm scum, then ika voting me. Now I'm 50% sure of ika/bjc scumbuddying.

This is probably town.

This is one of those things that strikes me odd, you just say "probally town" Its not "confirmed town" but he has little contents and some of us had diffrent viewpoints on it but you just come in and say "probally town"

If its gut feeling it doesnt give me that vibe. It feels like its scum saying "ya i know hes town"

Vote: RobW

This is probably scum.

I feel good about ika town and RayFrost town. I feel decently about Abbott town, and LMB town.
I kind of like emerald but nothing too definitive, and bjc is starting to lean scum.

The game developed more so i can understand the new reads but it feels like you kinda forced it almost or you know they are town. The one thing that screams out to me though is the one person you did not mention, timeshift.

To me its showing distancing and wanting to avoid affliation with him if you are to flip scum. I mean early on you had abbott scum and maybe after some interaction you have second thoughts, but here it just looks like your not getting a train off him and that you need to take a new avenu.

I think that the forming a dichotomy between Abbott and I so early is the dangerous sort of reasoning; there is e possibility that both of us just didn't mesh easily this game for no apparent reason.

I have a tendency to create TvT squabbles, for the record.

Squabbles can create intresting actions. However after looking though it, if felt like yours was more town and his was more scum.

@LMB, can you break down this breadcrumb thing like I'm a total idiot? I just don't get it.

He made a post where the first letter of his first sentence was "J", and the second letter of his second sentence was "K" in order to see who would try to lynch him. I don't agree with the basis of the reaction test, but the fact that he did it read as pretty fucking town to me.

Again heres one of those post that feels like its scum saying "i know hes town"

I don't like LMB's play early on. So I'll keep my vote.

Cue ika's vote removal after nacho shows force.

no when im done i will place my vote i need to dump it all out atm

[ika]

Is the idea that he was trying to pretend like he was a PR?

Why would a PR use "JK" as a breadcrumb?

seek reactions? see if anyone reads inbeween the lines. really you have to ask the person themself.

well after all that i feel like nacho will give us the most information.

VOTE: nacho

his slotting most ppl as town for his reasoning are plausable but some of his post are just out there and seem off. His reads give indication that he knows that they are town and he is doing it to try to keep distance. He also has not given us anything on timeshift as if hes tring to distance himself from him while giveing reads about everyone else atm. my decision is 99.9% final on nacho/timshift.

timesift also seems to have the same type of posting where he says ray is "misguided town" and tbh i belive it, but if thats the case, how would he exactly know or be so accraute about something like that? im willing to go at these 2 atm.

[ika]

I have a meta read on you based on the site you play at with Titus and my own personal experiences with you. I've found the difference between both games pretty easy to distinguish between and don't think the call is particularly difficult to make (active vs not active). When you play with a player for a while and have a more intimate read of their meta, generally more information tends to obfuscate the read as you're known for reading that player, as you're pressured to read that player. I don't have that player and I don't have an excess of information, hence that read being a fairly easy one for me to make.

I'm saying that my inactivity, when it comes, is because I'm busy. If you have evidence to the contrary, call me out for it. Otherwise, you're just going to have to take me at my word when I say that I'm busy.

Well what you have been doing is somewhat of a mirror of what titus did when she quickly slotted me town, however we have more games played so i have a better handle on her. Here you have only seen very little of me but seem VERY confident in it. Your confidence in it seems too strong to be town and is more scum.

Ika, I've had games where I ignore my scum buddies, bus them, distance from them, buddy up to them, and done a mix of these for different people. I even had a game where I essentially let myself die in order for a buddy to be a completely solid and beautiful town read.

I don't consistently play well as scum, so naturally that must mean that my playstyle is inconsistent as well.

Fair enough, i would like to hear how others play as scum. I have seen some players have a consitency when playing scum.

[ika]

and with that my brain is shot.

when i do big posts liek those it takes a lot out of me, i will prob be around to watch but im gonna be in recovery mode.

[Nachomamma8]

How the heck did I OMGUS him? Lol... I started this. I am the one pressuring him, remember? Maybe we need to take a step back to page one for a moment.

As for your second paragraph, no. Maybe that's where the other votes are coming from, but that's not my motivation.

You pushed me because "IC wagon" and "OMGUS". I was the first to put actual pressure on.

Why do you think you were the first to put actual pressure on? I do agree his reason was "IC wagon" with possible OMGUS, but even OMGUS is technical pressure no matter how bad it is

No, the credibility is used up when it turns out you were wrong. The old story of the boy who cried wolf. That's all I'm saying.

Forceful is good. Confidence is fine if you really believe what you're saying.

It's over-confidence that bugs me.

Pretending like you _know_ something when in reality you just have a suspicion or a hunch.

Remember this started as a conversation about Nacho and his posts early in the game where he made snap decisions and presented them as fact. If I recall correctly he even directed one at you. "You probably shouldn't vote for town"

Content-less posturing.

Credibility is shot when I'm forceful about a read and that read turns out wrong, yes. So either I'm A) town with good reasoning for ika as town, or B) scum who believes there's a good case to make for ika town. Either way, there's a case for ika as town.

The bolded part is what i feel like is happening, you KNOW the people are town, so you are going "ya town there" and not a "gut town" there. As also stated you went at frost saying dont vote town. But some of your next posts come up contridcting it.

So either I'm A) town with good reasoning for ika as town, or B) scum who believes there's a good case to make for ika town. Either way, there's a case for ika as town.

C) town who is working off a gut reaction and has no good reason
D) town who has just picked someone at random to townread in hopes of starting discussion
E) scum who is bussing
D) scum who is distancing

Please don't present something as a A-B scenario when it could be any number of outcomes.

The commentary with that emoticon was "this accusation is dumb, you're probably not serious I hope".

That's fair and expected. But I don't know you and I can't read your mind. That's all I'm saying.

I'm telling you that C and D aren't true.
E and F dont make sense.

So lets go with C and D are not true. You have eliminated 2 town sloted ideas for yourself and are saying the next 2 are not nessacarly false, but are ridiculous. Are you saying that you are not town here and that you are scum?

1) Shitty technical pressure is not real pressure. Occasionally you stumble on a gold mine and someone responds in a really scummy way, but what really is a really scummy response to an accusation that obviously has no basis in reality whatsoever?

2) If you feel I'm calling them town because I know their town, then the contradiction in my bjc townread doesn't make much sense, does it? Why do you think me as scum would call people out as town strongly and early when I will likely be forced to contradict myself down the road to mislynch them later? Again, why can't I have a legitimate read at that point? When is it socially acceptable to form reads?

3) No, I'm pointing out that the two scum possibilities make no sense and thus aren't true. I don't explicitly deny every scum accusation because it's redundant as all hell.