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Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:43 am
by zoraster
Hi guys, so... this year there are going to be 80 players in 20 different PTs just for Team PTs, not to mention scum PTs and the like. That's a whole lot to keep track of as the overall mod.
What this means is that while I'm trying to keep tabs on everyone's PTs and will answer questions as I see them, I might miss it. If you have a question about the game that you want answered, I encourage you to get your captain to PM me. Bolding a question in your PT may have a significant delay or get missed altogether.
That said, communication in your PTs is essential. It helps teams out, and if there's a tie at the end, it may be something the mods look to for that factor in the tie breaker.
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:17 am
by Cogito Ergo Sum
↑ zoraster wrote:Matrix6 would be fine with me but I know many people have mixed or negative feelings about it. I'm not as in tune with newbie stats and what not so if someone who knows more in depth it's strengths and weaknesses wants to describe those....
The design of Matrix6 was definitely limited by having it be suitable for the Newbie Queue.
What about this more refined version:
| A | B | C |
| 1 | Town Jailkeeper | Vanilla Townie | Mafia Goon |
| 2 | Mafia Tracker | Town JoaT (Cop/Track/Bodyguard) | Town 1-shot Roleblocker |
| 3 | Town Motion Detector | Mafia Goon | Town Friendly Neighbor |
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:20 am
by Egg
What's a motion detector do?
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:22 am
by Cogito Ergo Sum
A motion detector determines whether their target took an action that night.
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:23 am
by tn5421
tl;dr a watcher that doesn't say who they targeted, right?
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:26 am
by Cogito Ergo Sum
Tracker rather than a Watcher, but otherwise yes.
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:40 am
by AngryPidgeon
Hey guys, me BRO, and Dram need a 4th for this shindig. Anybody interested in joining this fabulous team?
And by fabulous I mean other things.
Shoot me a PM. Tell me about your
work experience, education
, any party tricks you are good at, preferred alignment, and preferred game.
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:01 am
by zoraster
you might check the spreadsheet, AP
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:20 am
by BBmolla
I like the 9 version of player C9++. M9++ or whatever the hell it was called.
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:22 am
by BBmolla
↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote: ↑ zoraster wrote:Matrix6 would be fine with me but I know many people have mixed or negative feelings about it. I'm not as in tune with newbie stats and what not so if someone who knows more in depth it's strengths and weaknesses wants to describe those....
The design of Matrix6 was definitely limited by having it be suitable for the Newbie Queue.
What about this more refined version:
| A | B | C |
| 1 | Town Jailkeeper | Vanilla Townie | Mafia Goon |
| 2 | Mafia Tracker | Town JoaT (Cop/Track/Bodyguard) | Town 1-shot Roleblocker |
| 3 | Town Motion Detector | Mafia Goon | Town Friendly Neighbor |
Oh I can dig this.
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:06 am
by mastin2
Except motion detectors ARE the watcher who doesn't see who or what type, basically a weaker voyeur; the tracker who doesn't see who or what type is called Reporter.
(Reporter/Follower/Tracker and Motion Detector/Voyeur/Watcher are the two different ones. Reporter/Motion Detector just sees if actions were done; Follower/Voyeur is stronger because it sees what type of action, and Tracker/Watcher we all know sees the name of the target.)
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:11 am
by singersigner
It doesn't make sense to compare the motion detector with a watcher, since a watcher sees who visits YOU, not whom you visit. A motion detector, if applied the way zoraster explained it, will resemble the results a tracker would see in that they would know that person committed an action
to/on someone else
, not someone else committing an action to/on them.
Unless the roles are just labeled terribly, it sounds like you're explaining it backwards.
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:18 am
by Cogito Ergo Sum
↑ mastin2 wrote:Except motion detectors ARE the watcher who doesn't see who or what type, basically a weaker voyeur; the tracker who doesn't see who or what type is called Reporter.
(Reporter/Follower/Tracker and Motion Detector/Voyeur/Watcher are the two different ones. Reporter/Motion Detector just sees if actions were done; Follower/Voyeur is stronger because it sees what type of action, and Tracker/Watcher we all know sees the name of the target.)
People have used Motion Detector to mean both the Tracker-variant and the Watcher-variant in the past. But a Motion Detector-variant of Watcher is very close to pointless and the other name for the Tracker-variant Reporter has also had various other meanings and is also not at all evocative of what the Tracker-variant does.
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:32 am
by SleepyKrew
Please save your bad reads for when this actually starts, guys.
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:48 am
by Zachrulez
Not really thrilled with Matrix for 9p, also that means the game would be semi-open rather than open.
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:52 am
by zoraster
I'm not too fussed about whether it's a very open semi-open (as matrix6 is) or a truly open.
In your suggestion above CES, isn't Town JK, VT, Goon pretty different in win chance than Town JK, Mafia Tracker, Town Motion Detector?
That's my only real objection to Matrix6/C9 type solutions: if some setups are markedly better for town/scum than others, it kind of sucks that random generation is what decides a hefty part of the game.
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:55 am
by Zachrulez
Well if I'm stuck with an open/semi open, I would prefer it to be simple. Matrix seems complex, swingy to the roles and untested.
I ran a 9p normal that had a 1 shot cop and a doctor with just 2 goons as the scum. How far away is something that simple from balance?
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:59 am
by zoraster
I mean our newbies do matrix6. It's really not that complex, it's basically "here are 6 setups it could be."
I think the difficulty with the above is making it an open, and the swing factor (1-shot cop who gets a guilty swings the game toward town significantly, 1-shot cop who gets an innocent/dead guy or is killed before revealing result swings the game pretty heavily toward scum).
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:01 pm
by Zachrulez
↑ zoraster wrote:I mean our newbies do matrix6. It's really not that complex, it's basically "here are 6 setups it could be."
I think the difficulty with the above is making it an open, and the swing factor (1-shot cop who gets a guilty swings the game toward town significantly, 1-shot cop who gets an innocent/dead guy or is killed before revealing result swings the game pretty heavily toward scum).
1-shot roleblocker against 1 scum can be an even more devastating swing. Scum generally can't even defend that by making the correct kill.
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:02 pm
by zoraster
where did the roleblocker come into the conversation?
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:03 pm
by Zachrulez
CES's refined version proposes one in 2C.
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:03 pm
by zoraster
One setup was suggested in the mod thread was
Twin Trap which at first glance seems crazier than it actually is.
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:04 pm
by Zachrulez
Twin Trap looks okay.
I don't mind the setup having some layers to it, but I would prefer it's easy to grasp and not something that leads to setup speculation, and I think something like matrix might lead to a game of guess the setup.
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:09 pm
by Zachrulez
Could possibly list all the potential setups and then maybe do it by player vote?
Maybe even do that as a game mechanic where the town votes the setup they want? (Similar to pick your poison/power, ect, whatever.)
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:10 pm
by Egg