Mini 531: Martyr Mafia GAME OVER!
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Oh, wow, ad hominem attacks.tyhess wrote:Sarcastro wrote:Oh, this is fun. Look what I found:
Care to explain, Tyhess, how you managed totyhess wrote:That's dumb in my opinion....If you wanted to do something like that (which I don't), then I would have the bomber come out and say who he is (if there's a counter claim we auto win so theirs no risk in that), then we kill somebody, and he kills somebody that we all agree on. IMO that make more sense than a no lynch.forgetthat there's no point in anybody claiming? Just got a little too caught up in going along with Aioqwe, did we?
Going over your old posts I cannot believe I only had you second to OtM.
different situations idiot
Explain what the difference is, Tyhess. Explain why suddenly you liked the idea of massclaiming despite knowing that it was a completely worthless thing to do? The situation might be different, but they're both bad ideas for the same reasons, so your rebuttal seems a little hollow.
MBF, when did I say that I was finished?
I am seriously shocked that none of you find Tyhess suspicious. Like I said, I'll be doing a PBPA (not that there's much to analyse), but seriously, if you end up lynching me, I will not let you forget it for quite a while.
Meanwhile, the entire case against me seems to be "he's doing what he always does as town". Hm, somehow that doesn't seem like a great reason to lynch someone.
[color=darkblue]If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.[/color]
I don't think that anyone is sure to be scum. However, I agree with Sarcastro completely about the remark regarding the massclaim. It is clearly a terrible idea.Tyhess, Aegor, Aioqwe, do you think it was suspicious that Sarcastro kept pushing for OTM's lynch, and now he's going after tyhess in exactly the same way?
I ask because none of you seem to be giving your thoughts on who is scum, and until you do this game is going to idle.
Rundown:
Sarc: Very aggressive players; pursues other players. OTM lynch was somewhat justified but still weak, and I'm waiting to be convinced about tyhess.
Tyhess: A bit weird at one point but otherwise he hasn't done anything really worthy of suspicion.
Aioqwe: Not really one of the most active members of the game; joined on some bandwagons and there were a few opportunistic moments (and the massclaim idea).
MBF/MissMoo: Same as aioqwe, although in my mind less suspicious
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I don't remember anybody saying this. I'm voting you because you've focused entirely on one person at a time throughout the game, which is the OPPOSITE of good pro-town play.Sarcastro wrote:Meanwhile, the entire case against me seems to be "he's doing what he always does as town". Hm, somehow that doesn't seem like a great reason to lynch someone.
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No, I don't. If you remember yesterday, I said that I know that you are aggressive.
And if you HAD gotten the scum lynched by focusing entirely on them, then I'd be able to forgive you. But you didn't. OTM wasn't impersonating scum, he was playing by his own style, and your reckless attack on him cost us a valuable opportunity to catch the real scum. I don't mind aggressive playing. Hell, I enjoy it. But when you stop trying to find scum and just pick somebody at random and try to get them killed, then you're not playing mafia anymore.
And if you HAD gotten the scum lynched by focusing entirely on them, then I'd be able to forgive you. But you didn't. OTM wasn't impersonating scum, he was playing by his own style, and your reckless attack on him cost us a valuable opportunity to catch the real scum. I don't mind aggressive playing. Hell, I enjoy it. But when you stop trying to find scum and just pick somebody at random and try to get them killed, then you're not playing mafia anymore.
But you did because you refused to consider other options. If you really are town and this truly is your playstyle, then it's horrible.Sarc wrote:Going over your old posts I cannot believe I only had you [tyhess] second to OtM.
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."
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No, MBF, I considered OtM the scummiest player until he died. In retrospect, I feel that I should have suspected Tyhess, but hindsight is 20/20. I was playing aggressively because I was confident that I was right. What exactly is the problem here? I didn't go on enough about how I found everybody sort of scummy? I didn't chat about nothing in particular? I thought OtM was scummy and I wanted him lynched. Why is that scummy?
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my mass-claim idea was so that if we have a stupid scum we win, but I guess we don't. It's also so we don't kill our bomber which could also come about by just giving him a chance to claim before lynching him.
I didn't think Sarc was scummy while pushing OTM's lynch. He is significantly more suspicious in my eyes now that he is maintaining his against typhess. Although typhess may be scummy, I haven't seen any spectacular evidence but if something good comes up I can be swayed, I find Sarc's attitude to be anti-town/scummy.
Meanwhile, Typhess registered minutely in some situations as possible scum. Same as missmoo. MBF seems to be behaving a bit better. Aegor never registered.... I'll try and re-read and see what comes up.
I didn't think Sarc was scummy while pushing OTM's lynch. He is significantly more suspicious in my eyes now that he is maintaining his against typhess. Although typhess may be scummy, I haven't seen any spectacular evidence but if something good comes up I can be swayed, I find Sarc's attitude to be anti-town/scummy.
Meanwhile, Typhess registered minutely in some situations as possible scum. Same as missmoo. MBF seems to be behaving a bit better. Aegor never registered.... I'll try and re-read and see what comes up.
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Sarc, Day1 you were like "OTM is definitely definitely scum. There's no doubt in my mind that he's not scum. He's so scum. He's so scummy it hurts. But I'll hammah QuickBen"
Day2 you were like "I'm still completely sure that OTM is scum. He's so infidelic it hurts. Scumscumscum! Oh, but I can support lynching aioque or Tyhess, or whoever you want"
Today you're like "OTM wasn't scum. I should have known. Oh, but Tyhess is scum. Yes, he's obviously scum! Scum scum scum! He's so guilty he should be lynched! I'm completely sure he's scum, even though the rest of you are suspicious!"
You are still recklessly pursuing ONE person even though you are NOT completely sure that they are scum, even though you PRETEND you are. That is why I am voting you, and why I want you lynched today.
As for the massclaim idea, it was not immediately suspect for me. I, too, thought it was a good idea at first.
Day2 you were like "I'm still completely sure that OTM is scum. He's so infidelic it hurts. Scumscumscum! Oh, but I can support lynching aioque or Tyhess, or whoever you want"
Today you're like "OTM wasn't scum. I should have known. Oh, but Tyhess is scum. Yes, he's obviously scum! Scum scum scum! He's so guilty he should be lynched! I'm completely sure he's scum, even though the rest of you are suspicious!"
You are still recklessly pursuing ONE person even though you are NOT completely sure that they are scum, even though you PRETEND you are. That is why I am voting you, and why I want you lynched today.
As for the massclaim idea, it was not immediately suspect for me. I, too, thought it was a good idea at first.
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Yeah, because I would rather lynchmikeburnfire wrote:Today you're like "OTM wasn't scum. I should have known. Oh, but Tyhess is scum. Yes, he's obviously scum! Scum scum scum! He's so guilty he should be lynched! I'm completely sure he's scum, even though the rest of you are suspicious!"
anyone
than myself. This is generally true, but especially so when being lynched causes me to lose the game
. So yeah, I'd rather lynch someone I don't even suspect than let myself get lynched.This whole "case" against me is fucking ridiculous. Seriously, just go look at any game I've played. I
always fucking hone in on the person I think is scummiest
. I always fucking act overconfident
. What the fuck difference does it make? I want to get the scummiest person lynched. What the hell is wrong with that?You're all acting like idiots, and you all seem like you could easily be scum right now, except maybe Aegor (even then, his analysis of the remaining players was pretty non-commital). MBF, you are worse than me for pursuing someone and closing your mind to everyone else. Do you seriously not have a problem with Tyhess's posts? READ THEM. Seriously. Read them and tell me Tyhess is not the scummiest player in the game. I just can't fucking believe this. Meanwhile, Aioqwe's logic is unbearably ridiculous and yeah, pretty scummy. You find me more suspicious because I'm sticking to my convictions about Tyhess? What the fuck do you think I should do? Switch to someone else? Who? You're not even thinking about
why
I'm scummy, you're just deciding that someone the fact that I'm playing in the way any intelligent player would expect a town player to play in my situation
, I'm scummy. Yeah, that makes perfect goddamn sense.I don't care. Lynch me. Go ahead. I will laugh when all but one of you loses. Hell, maybe the scum will just not kill, so the suicide bomber (who, since he is one of you, clearly has no idea what he's doing) can finish off a townie and give everyone the loss. I think I'd like that.
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Now who's using ad hominem attacks?
The problem is that people say and do things thatI want to get the scummiest person lynched. What the hell is wrong with that?
change
how scummy they are. You can't believe something on Wednesday that you did on Monday without considering the things that happen on Tuesday.I disagree, as I haven't done it throughout the entire game.MBF, you are worse than me for pursuing someone and closing your mind to everyone else.
Okay. I just read his posts. The only thing I find suspicious about him is that he's only voted for two people. That's it. I've found you and aoique FAR more scummy, him for his bandwagoning, and you for pigheadedness.Seriously. Read them and tell me Tyhess is not the scummiest player in the game.
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What if I do consider things that happened on Tuesday? What if I decided that the same person was still scummiest? What exactly is wrong with that?
I still don't think you've adequately explained exactly how any of this makes me scummy. I'm pigheaded? Yeah, okay, how about I'm not going to change my mind without some reason to. You keep saying that I shouldn't have kept pushing for OtM's lynch, but what the hell should I have done? The game was practically dead. Nothing was happening. What was I supposed to see to change my mind? Don't say something I'm doing is scummy without explaining what the alternative was. If the alternative is acting in an even scummier fashion (switching targets for no reason, like you seem to expect), then I think your point dies.
I still don't think you've adequately explained exactly how any of this makes me scummy. I'm pigheaded? Yeah, okay, how about I'm not going to change my mind without some reason to. You keep saying that I shouldn't have kept pushing for OtM's lynch, but what the hell should I have done? The game was practically dead. Nothing was happening. What was I supposed to see to change my mind? Don't say something I'm doing is scummy without explaining what the alternative was. If the alternative is acting in an even scummier fashion (switching targets for no reason, like you seem to expect), then I think your point dies.
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And I didn't make any ad hominem attacks, MBF. I said you guys were acting like idiots, but that's a description of your play. An ad hominem attack is when someone makes a personal attack in order to try to defeat an unrelated argument - for example, when Tyhess called me an idiot instead of actually responding to what I said.
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Sarcastro wrote:Yeah, because I would rather lynchmikeburnfire wrote:Today you're like "OTM wasn't scum. I should have known. Oh, but Tyhess is scum. Yes, he's obviously scum! Scum scum scum! He's so guilty he should be lynched! I'm completely sure he's scum, even though the rest of you are suspicious!"anyonethan myself. This is generally true, but especially so whenbeing lynched causes me to lose the game. So yeah, I'd rather lynch someone I don't even suspect than let myself get lynched.
This whole "case" against me is fucking ridiculous. Seriously, just go look at any game I've played. Ialways fucking hone in on the person I think is scummiest. Ialways fucking act overconfident. What the fuck difference does it make? I want to get the scummiest person lynched. What the hell is wrong with that?
You're all acting like idiots, and you all seem like you could easily be scum right now, except maybe Aegor (even then, his analysis of the remaining players was pretty non-commital).MBF, you are worse than me for pursuing someone and closing your mind to everyone else.Do you seriously not have a problem with Tyhess's posts? READ THEM. Seriously. Read them and tell me Tyhess is not the scummiest player in the game. I just can't fucking believe this. Meanwhile, Aioqwe's logic is unbearably ridiculous and yeah, pretty scummy. You find me more suspicious because I'm sticking to my convictions about Tyhess? What the fuck do you think I should do? Switch to someone else? Who? You're not even thinking aboutwhyI'm scummy, you're just deciding that someone the fact that I'm playing in the way any intelligent player wouldexpect a town player to play in my situation, I'm scummy. Yeah, that makes perfect goddamn sense.
I don't care. Lynch me. Go ahead. I will laugh when all but one of you loses. Hell, maybe the scum will just not kill, so the suicide bomber (who, since he is one of you, clearly has no idea what he's doing) can finish off a townie and give everyone the loss. I think I'd like that.
Bole mine
That's teh exact case against you there.....
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I can at least agree with you on that, Sarc. It's beginning to seem like this is just a slap-fight between you and me. I'd like it if Tyhess, Aoique, and Aegor gave a list from most to least suspicious.
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yous said he was worse and more lilkley scum than you for the same exact reason that everyone is attacking you, and he has a stronger case.Sarcastro wrote:Yes, Tyhess,that's my point. He's doing theexactthing he's callingmescummy for. How about you stop making worthless filler statements and start explaining yourself, as I asked.
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I said he was worse in the sense that he's doing what he's accused me of doing more than I ever did. I didn't say that that made him scum, so it'd be nice if you stopped putting words in my mouth.
Besides, he's going after the easy target, whereas I was going after someone legitimately scummy. So yeah, the former is scummy, the latter is not.
Besides, he's going after the easy target, whereas I was going after someone legitimately scummy. So yeah, the former is scummy, the latter is not.
[color=darkblue]If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.[/color]
What is happening here? I agree completely with Sarc. No one was acting like obvious scum. People bandwagoned against QB, who turned up town (the case against him was nothing). At least Sarc has some justification for voting OTM. You can't just bust anyone who wants to lynch someone who turns up town. No one else was even remotely as suspiciously as OTM in my opinion.
Least scummy: MBF, I really don't think that he's scum. Although I disagree with him about Sarc, he at least seems to be an attempting to hunt scum. That's more than most players (including myself) have done.
Sarc: Pursued OTM UNDERSTANDABLY. It was odd that he shifted focus so quickly to tyhess, but this game was literally at a standstill and Sarc had the right attitude at the beginning: a decent chance of being scum is enough to warrant a lynch. Now, we have to be more careful, but I have no problem with his past actions. For the record, I do NOT want him lynched today.
Tyhess/aioqwe: Tyhess has been weird. There isn't much of a strong case against him, but his little episode about the "decency" of a lynch was unnecessary and his reasoning was clearly wrong. Aioqwe has been very opportunistic; I'll find these instances later.
Least scummy: MBF, I really don't think that he's scum. Although I disagree with him about Sarc, he at least seems to be an attempting to hunt scum. That's more than most players (including myself) have done.
Sarc: Pursued OTM UNDERSTANDABLY. It was odd that he shifted focus so quickly to tyhess, but this game was literally at a standstill and Sarc had the right attitude at the beginning: a decent chance of being scum is enough to warrant a lynch. Now, we have to be more careful, but I have no problem with his past actions. For the record, I do NOT want him lynched today.
Tyhess/aioqwe: Tyhess has been weird. There isn't much of a strong case against him, but his little episode about the "decency" of a lynch was unnecessary and his reasoning was clearly wrong. Aioqwe has been very opportunistic; I'll find these instances later.
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I think Sarc has been opportunistic.Aegor wrote: Aioqwe has been very opportunistic; I'll find these instances later.
We have a hammer vote, even though he had been pushing sooo hard for a OtM lynchSarcastro wrote:Stop!
HAMMAHTIME!
Unvote, Vote: QuickBen
A decent lynch today is better than a great lynch tomorrow.
And now we're just bargaining at getting someone to lynch?Sarcastro wrote:I am fully willing to lynch Aioqwe as a compromise.
I acknowledge that the game is moving at snail's pace so lynches are the only way to get some action in the game but sarc's actions have a tinge of opportunism in them.
For some reason I feel MBF COULD be scum. Something has just struck me wrong from missmoo or something rather. But other than that I think he's town.
I re-read tyhess's posts and I can see a case against him. Arguing about good lynch/ great lynch was pointless stubbornness. Commenting on whether a lyncher role was useless speculation.
Aegor seems town enough... I can't really see a case for/against him.
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I still don't understand why people think that hammering someone is in any way, shape, or form a scumtell.
Seriously, Aioqwe, explain why I'd be more likely to hammer QuickBen as scum. He was, obviously, at lynch-1. There was a good chance he was going to be lynched. I felt that he was somewhat scummy. It didn't look like my first choice (OtM) would be lynched. I am a vocal critic of how long people take to lynch people and how afraid they are of taking risks. I hammered QuickBen because he was a decent lynch and there was no point hanging around waiting for someone else to do it while I futiley argued for OtM's lynch. Explain why I'm more likely to do that as scum than town. What do I gain as scum? The guarantee that I wouldn't be lynched that day? I was almost certainly not going to be lynched anyway, and I wouldn't have had any scumbuddies to worry about. So what do I gain? I gain the attention of people who don't bother thinking through their "scumtells". That's hardly something scum playing it safe wants.
Seriously, your charge of "opportunism" is ridiculous. It's based on one thing that is not at all scummy. Meanwhile, I've been the exact opposite of opportunistic throughout the rest of the game.
Seriously, Aioqwe, explain why I'd be more likely to hammer QuickBen as scum. He was, obviously, at lynch-1. There was a good chance he was going to be lynched. I felt that he was somewhat scummy. It didn't look like my first choice (OtM) would be lynched. I am a vocal critic of how long people take to lynch people and how afraid they are of taking risks. I hammered QuickBen because he was a decent lynch and there was no point hanging around waiting for someone else to do it while I futiley argued for OtM's lynch. Explain why I'm more likely to do that as scum than town. What do I gain as scum? The guarantee that I wouldn't be lynched that day? I was almost certainly not going to be lynched anyway, and I wouldn't have had any scumbuddies to worry about. So what do I gain? I gain the attention of people who don't bother thinking through their "scumtells". That's hardly something scum playing it safe wants.
Seriously, your charge of "opportunism" is ridiculous. It's based on one thing that is not at all scummy. Meanwhile, I've been the exact opposite of opportunistic throughout the rest of the game.
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Not really. You maintain a steadfast vote on OTM, but when the opportunity to lynch comes up you little hesitance to join it. Ug, I feel like we're just arguing the same points over and over again.
Sarcastro, if you are scum, I admire that you don't give up easily. But I still don't see any case against Tyhess, and the fact that you are so assertive about nothing doesn't set my mind at ease.
Sarcastro, if you are scum, I admire that you don't give up easily. But I still don't see any case against Tyhess, and the fact that you are so assertive about nothing doesn't set my mind at ease.
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Aegor is calling me out for being opportunistic yet fails to mention any of your opportunistic actions. I was merely defending myself by saying here is someone who is being opportunistic in his own right.Sarcastro wrote:I still don't understand why people think that hammering someone is in any way, shape, or form a scumtell.
Seriously, Aioqwe, explain why I'd be more likely to hammer QuickBen as scum. He was, obviously, at lynch-1. There was a good chance he was going to be lynched. I felt that he was somewhat scummy. It didn't look like my first choice (OtM) would be lynched. I am a vocal critic of how long people take to lynch people and how afraid they are of taking risks. I hammered QuickBen because he was a decent lynch and there was no point hanging around waiting for someone else to do it while I futiley argued for OtM's lynch. Explain why I'm more likely to do that as scum than town. What do I gain as scum? The guarantee that I wouldn't be lynched that day? I was almost certainly not going to be lynched anyway, and I wouldn't have had any scumbuddies to worry about. So what do I gain? I gain the attention of people who don't bother thinking through their "scumtells". That's hardly something scum playing it safe wants.
Seriously, your charge of "opportunism" is ridiculous. It's based on one thing that is not at all scummy. Meanwhile, I've been the exact opposite of opportunistic throughout the rest of the game.
Sarcastro is God he does no evil (except the quick hammer and the way over aggressive push of otm)Sarcastro wrote:I said he was worse in the sense that he's doing what he's accused me of doing more than I ever did. I didn't say that that made him scum, so it'd be nice if you stopped putting words in my mouth.
Besides, he's going after the easy target, whereas I was going after someone legitimately scummy. So yeah, the former is scummy, the latter is not.