Mafiascum.net

And yes, it was wisdom. I don't know who i want to lynch. These partitions are confusing me.

Then why is your vote still on group 2 if you wanting to lynch it is a joke?

In post 226, Wisdom wrote:Then why is your vote still on group 2 if you wanting to lynch it is a joke?

Because I don't believe in unvoting.

In post 216, Wisdom wrote:riku is so flipping red

I'm seeing it too. I think BuJ may be too.

I think that I was interpreting the reluctance to vote 2 inverted. I was thinking it was because of scum reluctance/low-hanging fruit etc. Now I'm thinking my first post on the matter was right, they have members in here.

VOTE: 2

For Aiur!

In post 211, BuJaber wrote:Okay maybe "scum-led" is too agressive... how about "scum-influenced". You don't think 3 scum can "inception" town into getting 7 votes together?

Scum never have majority. What they have is knowledge that they use to manipulate townies to vote for the wagon they want.

nope, scum dont have as much influence over town as you think they do

the only difference between scum and town is that scum is more motivated to give the wrong answer

In post 160, riku wrote:The fact that only people in group 2 are voting group 2 is now worrying me. Wisdom, how does it suggest scum in our midst?

This post is such a disconnect. First riku says they were now worried about group 2 issue, then they ask Wis how it means group 2 has scum. Like if you are worried about only people in 2 voting 2 then it should be obvious how scum are "in their midst".

In post 163, BuJaber wrote:So nobody in group 1 is voting for group 1?

@Cake - yes I think so. I think muffin and RMOJ were trying to wind people up. I'm not saying it's necessarily scummy but it's anti-town. RMOJ also used a whole lot of words to basically say "scum must be in group 3 because they put me in group 3". (If I misunderstood tell me but I think that's a concise summary of all of his theories). This is more or less what anybody who voted for their own group has said, so why did RMOJ need to do it in a 'showy' way?

I'd maybe consider it scummy if it was later in the game but they were both only in their entrances, so I'd have to disagree.

In post 167, BuJaber wrote:Maybe dramonic/koki/nsg
Because I don't like how dramonic called koki "japanese name person".

What kind of cruddy reasoning is that?

In post 175, zMuffinMan wrote:

In post 146, SirCakez wrote:Northside for some of their posts feeling kinda fake like their weird meta argument.

eh. disagree on this
actually part of the reason i think NSG is town is that she's one of the only players i think is actively trying to sort the game and i don't mind the way she's doing it

They haven't really done much real sorting. There was their Koki townread from meta and an unexplained REALMEN townread thrown out. I don't see anything else.


Pine do you have any sort of read besides disliking those two people in 2? Your ISO is rather void.

In post 227, riku wrote:

In post 226, Wisdom wrote:Then why is your vote still on group 2 if you wanting to lynch it is a joke?

Because I don't believe in unvoting.

Also this is lol

I would not mind offing 2 but I feel like 1 is our best bet still. Gal I've talked about, Eddie Cane and fitz are super underwhelming. DV not super impressive either.

In post 213, BuJaber wrote:Let's just bite the bullet and vote group 2.
Worst case scenario we have 5-3 left but we would know for sure that one groups 1 & 3 HAD to have at least 2 scum in it, which would make associative reads easier.

Basically that worst case scenario doesn't seem terrible so it's worth it.

let's go through this scenario once

today: 4 - 5 - 4

best case: we win instantly (unlikely)

worst case: all are town.

let's see the worst case for tomorrow: 5-3

what if scum go: 3 - 3 - 2, where scum hide 1 - 1 - 1

lynch a group of 3, we end with 5 players, 3-2,

the next day, 2 - 2 - 1, lynch wrong and lose

hmm, so if scum go 1 - 1 - 1 tomorrow even with a group 2 full mislynch today, we are in permanent lylo

let's try another arrangement:

2 - 0 - 1 tomorrow, where it's 3 - 3 - 2

if we lynch wrong, e.g. the group of 3, we end with 3 - 2, and its an autoloss.

lynching correctly gives us 3 - 2 with 4 town to 1 scum.

the following day, 2 - 2 - 1 again. lynch wrongly and 2 towns die, we end up with 2 town to 1 scum, again permanent lylo


hmm

i feel that in this game specifically, townhunting is useless here because your favorite obvtownies are going to die anyway when placed in a partition with scum

only good ol' scumhunting is needed in this game!

just a request - instead of saying things like "i think there are scum in group one", could people be more specific and talk more about their reads on people in specific? it's hard to engage with a statement like "there are scum in group X" without first asking "okay, who's the scum in that group?", so i would prefer to not ask that question every time someone says that - going straight to the person specific reads makes things easier.

In post 187, DeasVail wrote:Based on a quick read, northsidegal and koki have stood out to me as more likely to be scum.

But I'm also a bit perplexed by the over-the-top group talk here. Sure, I get that it's the theme of the game but I struggle to understand the relevance of statements like "No one not from Group 2 is voting for Group 2". I don't get the point! There are three scum, not 10.

So wisdom with his whole "pretending to sound useful" thing is also someone I need to look more closely at.

I like Cakez, I like Dramonic, I like BuJaber.

My mind has a complicated relationship with Muffin.

i don't understand how there wouldn't be any relevance? unless you believe it's the case that it doesn't really matter to scum which group actually goes through as the lynch (which i would be interested to hear), scum presumably have some group that they would prefer went through as the lynch and a group that they would prefer go through. i agree with you that people should be speaking more about individuals than about groups in general, but i still think there's relevance.

could you explain your dramonic townread?

In post 201, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:see what I don’t like about this setup is that it’s so fucking scumsided.

in normal games for every scum that die, a town gets nightkilled

over here a fuckton of town die even if we bag a scum because of this AoE group bullshit

meh, that's true, but it's also true that this game is similar to nightless in that scum don't have much of an easy ability to just remove the voices they don't want to hear - they have to do it through dayplay.

In post 202, BuJaber wrote:With varying degrees of subtlety group 3 has people from each of the 3 groups willing to vote for it.
Could be scum lead.


Pedit - RMOJ yeah but they still have to keep doing these partititions every day thereafter. It might end faster but I think it's probably balanced.

bujaber, is there anyone in specific you're actually scumreading right now?

In post 236, northsidegal wrote:

In post 201, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:see what I don’t like about this setup is that it’s so fucking scumsided.

in normal games for every scum that die, a town gets nightkilled

over here a fuckton of town die even if we bag a scum because of this AoE group bullshit

meh, that's true, but it's also true that this game is similar to nightless in that scum don't have much of an easy ability to just remove the voices they don't want to hear - they have to do it through dayplay.

scum have way more control over here in this game than nightless because scum control the partitions

in a nightless they can't kill obvtown or conftown

over here they just put all the obvtown and conftown in a partition with their n00best teammate and its wham-a-slam

In post 218, DeasVail wrote:"I'm pretty sure kokichi is town"

Easy to say the words, but a lot harder to back up.

When questioned on this by Kokichi, northside's answer just doesn't stack up.

When you're only 100 posts into the game, reasoning like "I know your scumgame and I'm not seeing it yet" does not justify statements like "I'm pretty sure you are town".

My thinking here is that northside threw out a townread in an attempt to look like they're working out the game, without actually having the reasoning to back it up. On the other hand, my expectation is that town would be more likely to actually go from reasoning ---> expression of townread. Whereas this looks a lot more like Expression of townread ----> Oh fuck I don't have much reason for saying that uhhhhh BLAND GENERIC VAGUE STATEMENT GO.

do you think that i'm stupid?

because the only way that what you could be saying is true is if that was true.

i may be bad at scum, but i'm fairly certain that i'm not stupid - i would never just make some random statement without any justiifcation just to keep up some sort of appearance - who's scum outside of the newbie queue does that. if you can give me an example of you catching someone off of that i'll take my words back, but scum just don't do that. even as scum people can come up with believable enough explanations for any of their faked reads. in faked, i've often found that overexplained reads are more of a scumtell than underexplained ones.

like, this statement:

When you're only 100 posts into the game, reasoning like "I know your scumgame and I'm not seeing it yet" does not justify statements like "I'm pretty sure you are town".

is just not true. it's just not. how is an early townread on kokichi because elements of his scumgame haven't manifested themselves yet not perfectly valid?

141 is also empty and just throwing shade at dramonic, when northside actually has no way of knowing whether there is a more complex thought process underlying dram's post.

it's not empty nor is it "throwing shade"? i mean, it's "throwing shade" in the sense that i'm telling him that what he's saying isn't valid, but i think his throught process there was pretty clear - he said that my townread on kokichi came from being scum together.

if there something more complex there than that then dramonic can correct be, but i don't think so.

i mean, do you think that what he said is reasonable? both of you seem to be starting from the exact same point that i am and make absolutely level-0 plays like fabricating reads i have no explanation for, and townreading my scumbuddy for nothing.

okay so nsg is town. not like that's any use to me because in this game we need to find scum. but it's a step forward!

In post 232, SirCakez wrote:I would not mind offing 2 but I feel like 1 is our best bet still. Gal I've talked about, Eddie Cane and fitz are super underwhelming. DV not super impressive either.

it's been ~20 hours since either of eddie cane or fitz posted. what makes them underwhelming to you?

maybe it's just hypersensitivity to my own group, but i feel like people have been "okay with" group 1 going since the start of the game even without much real reasoning. i'm not sure why that would be specifically, but that's how it feels.

by the way, anyone have thoughts on the likelihood that scum decided on equal sized groups first and then just used RNG to distribute the people inside of them?

In post 240, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:okay so nsg is town. not like that's any use to me because in this game we need to find scum. but it's a step forward!

Poe is a thing
Dont discourage townhunting

In post 241, northsidegal wrote:

In post 232, SirCakez wrote:I would not mind offing 2 but I feel like 1 is our best bet still. Gal I've talked about, Eddie Cane and fitz are super underwhelming. DV not super impressive either.

it's been ~20 hours since either of eddie cane or fitz posted. what makes them underwhelming to you?

maybe it's just hypersensitivity to my own group, but i feel like people have been "okay with" group 1 going since the start of the game even without much real reasoning. i'm not sure why that would be specifically, but that's how it feels.

Them being MIA for that long is underwhelming in itself. Fitz I already mentioned that I disliked their fluff post when they were being discussed and Cane's ISO has nothing that makes me lean either way, so I don't mind him going.

he explicitly said that he was V/LA for mother's day? i can agree with you in general that pop-ins to the thread like that that don't show much of an effort to sort come from scum more often than town, but in this case i don't really think that's a good place to apply it to.

why would you be more okay with lynching a group of people with very little content who you don't really have much of a solid read on more than a group that you'd be more confident in containing scum?

what's your read on me, by the way?

Oh I completely missed that V/LA derp. I need to see more from both slots.
Group 1 is the group I'm most confident has scum, not sure what you're getting at there.
I was leaning scum but I did like your response to the DV case so we shall see.

i don't understand why the group that you're most confident has scum is the group who has a single person whose posts you don't like, a person whose "ISO has nothing that makes [you] lean either way", me who you're apparently not sure about, and DV, who was "not super impressive".

explain this for me? i hope you see how it's reasonable that i'd assume that group 1 wasn't your most confident given the way you're describing things.

In post 241, northsidegal wrote:

In post 232, SirCakez wrote:I would not mind offing 2 but I feel like 1 is our best bet still. Gal I've talked about, Eddie Cane and fitz are super underwhelming. DV not super impressive either.

it's been ~20 hours since either of eddie cane or fitz posted. what makes them underwhelming to you?

maybe it's just hypersensitivity to my own group, but i feel like people have been "okay with" group 1 going since the start of the game even without much real reasoning. i'm not sure why that would be specifically, but that's how it feels.

I'm definitely not underwhelming. I also haven't done much, so I'm probably not overwhelming. I'm just whelming.

In post 248, Eddie Cane wrote:

In post 241, northsidegal wrote:

In post 232, SirCakez wrote:I would not mind offing 2 but I feel like 1 is our best bet still. Gal I've talked about, Eddie Cane and fitz are super underwhelming. DV not super impressive either.

it's been ~20 hours since either of eddie cane or fitz posted. what makes them underwhelming to you?

maybe it's just hypersensitivity to my own group, but i feel like people have been "okay with" group 1 going since the start of the game even without much real reasoning. i'm not sure why that would be specifically, but that's how it feels.

I'm definitely not underwhelming. I also haven't done much, so I'm probably not overwhelming. I'm just whelming.

BUT ARE YOU WAILMER???