UK Eastermeet Invitational (Game over)

[Samantha Eyzburg]

Sweet!

I'm unsure what to do next. As per title, there's no pressure. At least I've been going in the right direction, from now it should be easy, right? But otoh, we have plenty of time to discuss and learn more

[Samantha Eyzburg]

Huzzah!

Vote: Primate

Is there anything in particular we need to discuss, myko?

I wouldn't know. Is there anything you didn't want to mention back then? Otherwise, we did have some good talk at the end of yesterday. However, primate wasn't around, sadly, so maybe I should hear some more from him first?

[Primate]

Congrats on the call.

VOTE: CES

I went to watch avengers endgame after work. I'm pretty tired now so will be heading to bed shortly. I don't want to be a dick so if you want to bring to a resolution (even against me) go ahead, but I'll post tomorrow.

[Samantha Eyzburg]

Don't worry about it, we've got all time in the world now. And it'd be a bit of an anticlimax if we didn't have a proper lylo.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I kind of assume it's obvious at this stage, so it's going to be anticlimactic regardless.

[Samantha Eyzburg]

Yes, it should be obvious, shouldn't it..

But it's never quite that easy when you got this close and it'd be a real shame to mess it up now.

[Primate]

The cerys/ces argument is presumably manufactured in an attempt to make ces look better when she dies. Maybe it's worth getting into fenchurches mind and asking if she genuinely expected to make it to endgame, and if she didn't, what she was trying to achieve. I probably wouldn't though, it's massive wifom from your pov and I'm only commenting on it for the sake of commenting on the last page.

I've been thinking about the fact that we didn't have a speedlynch when the timer ran out, and the best explanation i can come up with is that because you and me, we were both in a situation where we had a positive view of the other and were generally seen as town. Like CES is saying that he would have enforced the lynch as scum, and it's likely that's true, but if the lynch target was ambiguous because the instructions were unclear then you end up with a realistic explanation for what happened there. Like if it was you and ces, they obviously run you up, even if you factor in them being slow via being disorganised.

I think CES definitely knows how to play this setup and is likely to be able to walk townie pretty well as scum regardless, I know my play has been a bit shaky, but in my defence I generally dislike this setup and generally refuse to play in it. I think you (myko) underestimate how easy it would be (and was) for ces to play a gambit and then drop it and take another tack with experiencing very little pushback for it, then having the advantage of not really committing to anything much in the early game. Doing the gambit in the first place is generally pro-town, for sure, and i think it generally had a positive effect on the game, but it was kept up longer than was necessary, and picking a player like klick that's generally pretty stable is a bit of a dull choice.

[Samantha Eyzburg]

Like if it was you and ces, they obviously run you up, even if you factor in them being slow via being disorganised.

Hmm, yes. That's a very good point.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

The cerys/ces argument is presumably manufactured in an attempt to make ces look better when she dies. Maybe it's worth getting into fenchurches mind and asking if she genuinely expected to make it to endgame, and if she didn't, what she was trying to achieve. I probably wouldn't though, it's massive wifom from your pov and I'm only commenting on it for the sake of commenting on the last page.

She was trying to win the game, obviously. I think you can definitely tell she was putting in a good amount of effort and people aren't going to be motivated in a Jungle of Bullshit without a very clear incentive.

I've been thinking about the fact that we didn't have a speedlynch when the timer ran out, and the best explanation i can come up with is that because you and me,

we were both in a situation where we had a positive view of the other and were generally seen as town.

To me, standard scum play with quicklynches is agreeing on a set time. I don't see why that wouldn't've happened here if I'd been scum. The bolded line certainly isn't true, so that's not a potential reason why.

Like if it was you and ces, they obviously run you up, even if you factor in them being slow via being disorganised.

Through most of the game, myko was more open to thinking that I was town than I was to him. I wouldn't say the myko was the obvious lynch at all.

Doing the gambit in the first place is generally pro-town, for sure, and i think it generally had a positive effect on the game, but it was kept up longer than was necessary, and picking a player like klick that's generally pretty stable is a bit of a dull choice.

I appreciate the assumption that I didn't actually think Klick was town but I did think Klick was the most likely townie for most of the game. What did you think of Klick anyway? Did you have him as a likely townie pre-mykovotes?

[Primate]

I'm removing my original quotes for clarity here.

She was trying to win the game, obviously. I think you can definitely tell she was putting in a good amount of effort and people aren't going to be motivated in a Jungle of Bullshit without a very clear incentive.

Yeah I'm not going to disagree that that was something she was clearly trying to achieve on some level. I don't think you put that amount of effort in without considering the possibility you can turn it round. I also think it's probable most of the reason she was engaging with you over myko or me is simply because you were there and engaging her. As I say, it's Wifom and how much you believe her attacks against you were exagerrated. You've said before the correct play as town is to be townie, and that's doubly true in the situation she was in, appealing to the essentially confirmed, but she was attacking you and poro, attempting to paint you as scum.

To me, standard scum play with quicklynches is agreeing on a set time. I don't see why that wouldn't've happened here if I'd been scum. The bolded line certainly isn't true, so that's not a potential reason why.

It clearly is, yeah, we discussed this at the meet. Obviously I don't know why it didn't happen, a disagreement over specifics seems plausible. My other thought is that it might be someone like CDB was meant to make the call and he was away. There's clearly something other than "CES is the only one that knew the super secret strat" going on and its a weird point to rely on. There's also a fair argument to be made that the scum specifically had a plan to not speedlynch for whatever reason, and that's why there wasn't a buildup, the one myko made like during, but still if that's the case it doesn't support your point. I said when klick asked that if I had a town read it'd be myko and that faded as the day went on a bit and he asked some weird questions but i presume would still assume that was a read that i had considering i wasn't really talking about townreads much (mainly as i didn't really have any strong ones). Myko's in a better position than me to talk about what he was thinking and what he thought the scum would read into it. Having said that, the reason i thought that at the time myko thought i was town was this post https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10910726 , which isn't concrete but i read it that way.

Through most of the game, myko was more open to thinking that I was town than I was to him. I wouldn't say the myko was the obvious lynch at all.

Again if this is true and i misread wrong sorry and myko can correct me.

I appreciate the assumption that I didn't actually think Klick was town but I did think Klick was the most likely townie for most of the game. What did you think of Klick anyway? Did you have him as a likely townie pre-mykovotes?

I'm talking about this from the perspective that you're scum and knew klick wasn't town. Like, if you're scum, you pick someone safe who isn't going to respond unpredictable (like klick). If you're town you do whatever, I'm not saying that it's a binary, but you didn't do the thing that a scum wouldn't do. Regarding your second point i had klick as a possible townie. I felt like people were weirdly slotting him in as a pro-town candidate in the early game and I was pretty skeptical of that but I don't think he did anything wrong. I think I commented earlier in the game that i thought you were signal boosting his townieness by mentioning it and tying him to you (with you as the scummier one of the two) (I also don't think portraying him as town was a primary goal, it's just a byproduct of the way you were acting). By this post https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10908019 I'd mostly given up on him being town as it seemed like he was going through the motions and his townieness was superficial. Pre-Myko vote I was considering him as town again because i was rolling around the theory i said earlier today and he seemed like someone the scum might regard as town, but it was .

[Samantha Eyzburg]

Through most of the game, myko was more open to thinking that I was town than I was to him. I wouldn't say the myko was the obvious lynch at all.

So it's good that you didn't get lynched, because we'd have lost?

I think I'll try to reread one last time tonight and hammer then.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

As I say, it's Wifom and how much you believe her attacks against you were exagerrated. You've said before the correct play as town is to be townie, and that's doubly true in the situation she was in, appealing to the essentially confirmed, but she was attacking you and poro, attempting to paint you as scum.

I think there's been an inordinate focus on me all game and that's been one of the clearest signs that I am one of the townies.

I think I'll try to reread one last time tonight and hammer then.

If you feel the need to reread anything, just go for Primate's iso up to #136 (i.e. pre-you-votes).

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I thought I was going to come home to either a victory or an opportunity to express disappointment in you, myko, and yet here I am with neither.

[Samantha Eyzburg]

And yet you managed to express disappointment

The longer I've been thinking about it the more I second guess myself, it's not actually that helpful. :/

[Samantha Eyzburg]

Alright:

Vote CES

Sorry if I'm wrong, but either way well played to scum, this turned out to be more tricky than I had initially thought. Thanks for the game!

[Patrick]

Final Votecount

Cogito Ergo Sum (2) -- Primate, Samantha Eyzburg
Primate (1) -- Cogito Ergo Sum

Cogito Ergo Sum - Vanilla Townie - lynched day 2

Samantha Eyzburg - Vanilla Townie - killed in the endgame

The Mafia made up of everyone else win the game.

Thanks for playing everyone, and well played by Primate. I'll have some more thoughts later.

[Primate]

pfft. I was sure we'd fucked that.

[Xtoxm]

gg, well done primate!
i thought for sure town had this when myko started calling CES town for his entrance plan.

[Primate]

gg, well done primate!
i thought for sure town had this when myko started calling CES town for his entrance plan.

Thank you so much for actually starting the speedvote btw, stepping up and actually making the call. I was apoplectic during sunday that no-one was starting a wagon. I was considering outing myself in order to get people to do things, but like my position at that point was pretty good so I was hating it.

[ChannelDelibird]

Oh wow, I didn't expect that! Unlucky Myko, and really well done to Primate for doing some great work over the last few days.

[Xtoxm]

haha yeah i wanted it to happen isntantly as well
but like i was the one who made the plan pre game to and i didnt want to feel like i was forcing my plan on all you guys
so i made sure to wait a while and see if anyone wanted to do something different
then it go to like a whole day later so i was like screw it im going

[Samantha Eyzburg]

Sigh.

I do need to know now, was this post really a scumclaim then? I had it as that first, and it took me so long to find town in it.

Seriously though you don't want excuses. Every scum that "speedlynches" needs to commit. If you have your vote on a player going into the day you could just say you weren't around for that day and aren't responsible (I presume there's no way this gets believed but we're talking correct play here).

And for coolness sake, were you trying to set up the wagon here? Because that'd be properly awesome.

This game is not going entirely as I expected (which perhaps in itself should have been expected). Even though most or all of the people who are arguing that my usual approach to being town in Jungle of Bullshit won't work are scum, I do find it troublingly reasonable.

For the record, then, the people I have so far ruled out of being the townie are: Fen, Prozac, Nexus, Xtoxm and Davsto.

I am suddenly a lot more conscious of the 72-hour thing than I was before. It felt like all the time in the world before we actually started.

It would be super bad if the other townie is Wenna.

Xtoxm, Kyrion, Poro, Nexus, Cpol. Of the people who have posted, you all have the least content which makes me feel able to reading you. In itself that could say a lot, but. If you're town, please make sure you do something about it in the next day before the deadline.

[Patrick]

Mafia PT: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10901159

Dead thread: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=79559

[the worst]

Well played all.
Nice shooting Samantha!

[ChannelDelibird]

I'd love to say it was, but 73 was not an attempt to call out a plan for the wagon. At that point, I was already worrying about the fact that it seemed like we were going to have to lynch CES rather than you, who had been our intended target from pregame.

I would have got right on with the vote if the game had been less centred around CES, but as it was I got worried about not everyone being there to get on with it together and decided to wait a few hours, fully intending to wake up and vote CES in the hopes of getting a missed shot on you. Turns out it worked out okay though!