Newbie 1961 | Trees II | Over

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 1.08

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Lynching

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Jamelia

(3): FancyPants, tictac, Zenith

Zenith

(2): Suspicious, Jamelia

january

(1): Vorkuta

Not Voting

(3): january, ceejayvinoya, GeorgeBailey

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-10-26 08:30:00).

Mod notes:

FancyPants is V/LA until Monday[/area]

[Zenith]

If you would quit being dodgy by hiding behind your ISO, maybe we could get somewhere.

I could turn it around on you and tell you to read my ISO for your answers. I won't, but maybe this will help you see how ridiculous you are being?

These two quotes are ridiculously transparent and unnerving compared to the context of what people were asking of Zenith. I compare this to myself, where I was answering the same questions and people wanting to dig for more information, Zenith is just refusing to answer questions and using personal attacks. I still have yet to figure out exactly why if they are town, that they would be this defensive over this especially when they "didn't mean to put Suspicious on L-1" (I'll come back to that below).

//When I asked for his case against me he kept saying to read his ISO as if I hadn't been paying attention. it was quite annoying and I don't blame you If you only skimmed through our back and forth. What do you expect from me? Which question did I refuse to answer? Because I don't recall refusing to do anything, other than refusing to write a commentary on every single post in the suspicious ISO.

As far as ignoring things goes, I'm free to ignore whatever I want, for whatever reason I want, and I don't care if anyone dislikes that about me. */

Subject: Newbie 1953 | Zooborns IV | Game Over

So I read through everything and tried analyzing as much as possible. My brain actually hurts from trying to form opinion's of scuminess so, yeah. LOL

I agree with the opinion that Leucostictie is pretty neutral, but I wouldn't agree that he is auto-town or whatever. I appreciate the indepth analysis but I found at times the wording of how townspeople should act to be almost a: "I think this is the way Town in this game should play!" versus "I am town, but I wouldn't be surprised if other Town played this way".

I personally don't blame anyone for voting for someone based on inactivity, including Dyrenz' back on Page 2. He hasn't been on since I've started talking and stuff. I think that voting for someone based on inactivity when I personally haven't seen any overt scuminess makes sense?

That's all I really have right now. This is fun! LOL

^This person here is town!Jamelia. That was post #69
He has opinions and he shares them freely.
He says 'LOL' alot because he is having fun analyzing a game with friends.
He is big into the communal aspect of problemsolving, and correcting each others mistakes. That's why I tried to direct him towards january, because I saw that same attitude in jan. Figured there would be common ground and an easy townread there, but no.
And yeah, this person did have a town quickhammer another town in his first game. He would be very wary of L-1. I believe this person would have unvoted Zen before CJ did, regardless of what his read on Zen was, since there was still time left until deadline.

I strongly believe that the person posting in this thread is not town!Jamelia.
There is not a single 'LOL' in his ISO.

@Jamelia: If I am wrong about something here, please tell me why.
@Others: I think this is the first time Jam randed scum. I'd like to lynch him gently if we can. I recognize that this is a meta-read and as such might not be convincing for all. I encourage everyone to take a peek at Jam-iso in that game, and then tell me if ya think that this is the same person at all.

VOTE: Jamelia

Now that I'm on my computer I can properly dissect and defend myself here. From my experience I believe scum-reading someone based on a meta from 1 game (can't talk about the current one) is very dangerous. I think scum-reading anyone based on their meta from this website is also dangerous. I take into consideration what is happening in this game, and not the history of others. If you're going to lynch me because my behavior on this website is different than from when I first joined, then I probably shouldn't have tried playing another game at all.

Am liking the recent content from tictac. Think I'll sheep for now and see where this goes.

VOTE: Jamelia
L-2

Liking someone's content doesn't mean you have to align your vote with them. After battling Suspicion for a good 5-6 pages now, I am pretty shocked you're voting for me here. In your words, can I ask why you think I am your current scumlead?

//At this point I'd kind of like to pretend that suspicious doesn't exist for a while, otherwise it could be difficult to scumhunt if locked into a pointless death tunnel. Also, I don't recall saying that you are my current scumlead. If I recall correctly, I sheeped tictac. Not because I have to, I wanted to. */

According to Plotinus on page 1: "Mafia are able to communicate in their Private Topic at all times"

Uh what was this for?

Nothing in Zeniths posts even hinted at L-1 possibly being a mistake.
You jumping to that conclusion looks like ya assumed benign intent because of informed POW or unreasoned defence because he is your buddy.

However

in his next post zen changes his stance and didn't intend to put sus at L-1 but at L-2 (which ya said would be reasonable),like ya gave him an out he didn't think of himself. I think this is a mild point against you guys having

daytalk

.

I didn't change my stance btw. I meant to put him at L-2. If he had already been at L-2 before I had started writing my post then I would have meant to put him at L-1, though I would have clearly marked him as L-1 with the warning to declare intent and give a chance for dialog before actually hammering. Unlike some people, I'm not afraid to put an RVS at L-1 if done properly. (With the disclaimer.) I actually think L-1 is mostly better than L-2.

You would have known you were putting Suspicion on L-1 because you would have gotten a notification showing the previous vote for Suspicion, before you were able to post. So you either ignored that and posted, or you did know you were putting Suspicion into L-1.

//I was multitasking at the time and wanted to get my first post out. If there was a notification then I missed it, because I didn't notice the L-1 until I checked back a few minutes later, at which point he had already been unvoted. I don't understand why people be trying to make an RVS vote into such a big deal. It's been repetitive garbage topic for a while now, like how long does it need to be discussed?

I hopped on the suspicious wagon because that's one of the ways that help me to form reads on people. Then it turned into a big mess that doesn't want to go away. I don't like when people cause messiness. It becomes more difficult to see when people murky the waters, and doing so intentionally seems scummy to me, or anti town at best. */

[january]

out of curiosity, how much “coaching” between mafia members usually occurs in the mafia chat?

when I played live chat mafia, mafia couldn’t speak to each other during the day so there wasn’t really any way for partners to coach each other.

-don’t think this is that relevant right now, but if coaching is common or likely then it might be easier to figure out partner/team reads later on. (for example a newbie with really bad plays that flips maf probably has a newbie partner)
-i know this has way too much meta to ever back up a full read, but it might help with pointing us in the right direction later on, just felt like asking now because it came to mind and i didn’t want to forget

[Vorkuta]

out of curiosity, how much “coaching” between mafia members usually occurs in the mafia chat?

I mean feel free to check out a completed game for the PT reveals, but it depends on players/playstyles.
You have people that don't shut up in there and micromanage/control freak, and you have.... quiet players

attempt at town spewing noted

[Suspicious]

And @Zenith, what was the purpose of #140?

Lol, this coming from the guy who kept telling me to re-read his ISO.
Guess you haven't been paying attention, because I already answered this in #161.

You did not elaborate on any answer in that post. You bolded a word. Answer the question.

You can insult me all you want, but it's not going to get you anywhere.

[Zenith]

Uhm.. There's nothing more to add?

There was speculation about daytalk. So I responded by quoting Plotinus on the issue..

Are you generally incapable of reading?

Please stop projecting yourself onto me.

[Suspicious]

And once again, in lieu of any defense, you go back to insulting me. This on top of earlier dodging, misrepresentation, etc.

Tic's point wasn't over the existence of daytalk, it was regarding the likelihood of you and Bailey being a scumteam.

If you'd like to shake me off of you, I'd recommend something outside of playground jabs. Your conduct has got me all-in for some tunnel time.

[Zenith]

More blatant projecting yourself onto me. I thought i asked you to stop that. I even said please.

[Plotinus]

FancyPants^0.5 has been nudged^{Rule 13}.

[Zenith]

I mean seriously you're not making any sense.

You asked me a question i had already answered, so I answered it again. Somehow that wasn't good enough, so I answered a third time with clarification to make it as clear as possible. Like, there's nothing to defend there, and how am I dodging when I answered the same ducking question 3 times??

If anyone is insulting you, it's you insulting yourself. You're like a broken record of falsely accusing me of doing the things that you have done. I could go through and point out a list of such activity, but I'm not really in the mood to re-read that mess of a back and forth right now. Maybe I'll get around to that eventually if someone insist, but right now I've got a fever and dealing with your crazy isn't helping.

[Zenith]

FancyPants^0.5 has been nudged^{Rule 13}.

Isn't fancy V/LA for the weekend?

Afk until Monday, world cup quarter final tomorrow and I'm either getting sad drunk or happy drunk.

V/LA noted --P

[Zenith]

Nevermind, just re-read rule 13. I should probably take a break to get some rest before Suspicious' crazy rubs off on me.

[tictac]

As for not seeing something is on L-1.

I didn’t. I worked all last night and I didn’t realize we were on a L-1 on Zenith. That’s my bad.

Spoiler: online times

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Zenith (4): Jamelia, tictac, ceejayvinoya, Suspicious

Last visited:19 Oct 2019, 14:52
Last visited:19 Oct 2019, 18:04

I’m working late tonight but when I get home I’ll post some general thoughts.

u checked the thread at least 3 times after Plots votecount showing the L-1.
I don't believe u were unaware.

UNVOTE: until I actually sit down and read everything analytically.

yea. that's what I think town!you would have done 5 pages ago.

Literally LOL at this.

Too much WIFOM here..

@tictac What do you think? Which glass would you drink from here?

I judge this LOL organic in nature (lol)
I don't think it's super-relevant coming after I talked about it. Why do ya ask?

Zenith is just refusing to answer questions and using personal attacks.

I do wanna say that I like yer playstyle more than I do zens. If I could lynch him in good conscience I would.
you have a greater chance of actually flipping scum tho.

Now that I'm on my computer I can properly dissect and defend myself here. From my experience I believe scum-reading someone based on a meta from 1 game (can't talk about the current one) is very dangerous. I think scum-reading anyone based on their meta from this website is also dangerous. I take into consideration what is happening in this game, and not the history of others. If you're going to lynch me because my behavior on this website is different than from when I first joined, then I probably shouldn't have tried playing another game at all.

There's a site-meta level argument here that I don't entirely disagree with.
Maybe mafia as a game would be more enjoyable if nobody used meta ever.
Thing is, we don't live in that world. I did spectate that game, and not using that info would not be playing the game honestly.
Also: this isn't really an argument that has any bearing on yer align here.

[Suspicious]

I mean seriously you're not making any sense.

You asked me a question i had already answered, so I answered it again. Somehow that wasn't good enough, so I answered a third time with clarification to make it as clear as possible. Like, there's nothing to defend there, and how am I dodging when I answered the same ducking question 3 times??

If anyone is insulting you, it's you insulting yourself. You're like a broken record of falsely accusing me of doing the things that you have done. I could go through and point out a list of such activity, but I'm not really in the mood to re-read that mess of a back and forth right now. Maybe I'll get around to that eventually if someone insist, but right now I've got a fever and dealing with your crazy isn't helping.

You literally didn't answer the earlier questions until I brought them up again. Your attack against me was completely baseless, which I pointed out, and apparently you don't think it exists. You took my words out of context and I've taken yours at face value until you decide to switch your stance.

You boil down to saying I'm crazy, etc. You know I'm right and you're frozen out of making a defense.

If you had clarified things earlier this point wouldn't have been reached, yet here we are. I don't take kindly to being ignored, which you inarguably did, and going for insults is a last resort and a lazy defense.

I am only repeating myself because you have forced me to time and time again. If you want this to stop, propose a different lynch, using your own thoughts and not sheeping.

Which makes me ask, why take your vote off me in the first place?

[Vorkuta]

Tictac v Jam might have scum in it
Sus v Zenith is prolly TvT

Just based on the last few pages of interaction alone

[tictac]

Tictac v Jam might have scum in it
Sus v Zenith is prolly TvT

Just based on the last few pages of interaction alone

So why does scum!tic try to push a lynch away from town!Zen?
if the answer is "uh, dunno", vote for Jam.

[tictac]

I think I'm at

{Sus, GB, FP}
{January, CJ}
{Zenith. Jam}
{tictac}

Also guys- this "he put the guy to L-1" discussion has been spanning on for 10 pages so....

why is GB town?
is the scumread on me something other than u disagree w me on what info is relevant?

[Jamelia]

As for not seeing something is on L-1.

I didn’t. I worked all last night and I didn’t realize we were on a L-1 on Zenith. That’s my bad.

Spoiler: online times

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Zenith (4): Jamelia, tictac, ceejayvinoya, Suspicious

Last visited:19 Oct 2019, 14:52
Last visited:19 Oct 2019, 18:04

I’m working late tonight but when I get home I’ll post some general thoughts.

u checked the thread at least 3 times after Plots votecount showing the L-1.
I don't believe u were unaware.

UNVOTE: until I actually sit down and read everything analytically.

yea. that's what I think town!you would have done 5 pages ago.

Literally LOL at this.

Too much WIFOM here..

@tictac What do you think? Which glass would you drink from here?

I judge this LOL organic in nature (lol)
I don't think it's super-relevant coming after I talked about it. Why do ya ask?

Zenith is just refusing to answer questions and using personal attacks.

I do wanna say that I like yer playstyle more than I do zens. If I could lynch him in good conscience I would.
you have a greater chance of actually flipping scum tho.

Now that I'm on my computer I can properly dissect and defend myself here. From my experience I believe scum-reading someone based on a meta from 1 game (can't talk about the current one) is very dangerous. I think scum-reading anyone based on their meta from this website is also dangerous. I take into consideration what is happening in this game, and not the history of others. If you're going to lynch me because my behavior on this website is different than from when I first joined, then I probably shouldn't have tried playing another game at all.

There's a site-meta level argument here that I don't entirely disagree with.
Maybe mafia as a game would be more enjoyable if nobody used meta ever.
Thing is, we don't live in that world. I did spectate that game, and not using that info would not be playing the game honestly.
Also: this isn't really an argument that has any bearing on yer align here.

I’m genuinely at a point that I just want to give up and have y’all lynch me. If a self-meta “checking the website and not seeing Zenith was at L-1” is going to get me lynched, theres 0 way town is winning if I’m going to get lynched for something like this and there’s no other reason why.

[tictac]

As for not seeing something is on L-1.

I didn’t. I worked all last night and I didn’t realize we were on a L-1 on Zenith. That’s my bad.

Spoiler: online times

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Zenith (4): Jamelia, tictac, ceejayvinoya, Suspicious

Last visited:19 Oct 2019, 14:52
Last visited:19 Oct 2019, 18:04

I’m working late tonight but when I get home I’ll post some general thoughts.

u checked the thread at least 3 times after Plots votecount showing the L-1.
I don't believe u were unaware.

If ya town, I prefer ya to fight this. even if it doesn't succeed, there's better info left behind if ya do.
Let's throw away the meta, and boil things down to this point.
Give reads/opinions on things and let that towniness shine through.
If ya scum, feel free to give up tho.

[Jamelia]

As for not seeing something is on L-1.

I didn’t. I worked all last night and I didn’t realize we were on a L-1 on Zenith. That’s my bad.

Spoiler: online times

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Zenith (4): Jamelia, tictac, ceejayvinoya, Suspicious

Last visited:19 Oct 2019, 14:52
Last visited:19 Oct 2019, 18:04

I’m working late tonight but when I get home I’ll post some general thoughts.

u checked the thread at least 3 times after Plots votecount showing the L-1.
I don't believe u were unaware.

If ya town, I prefer ya to fight this. even if it doesn't succeed, there's better info left behind if ya do.
Let's throw away the meta, and boil things down to this point.
Give reads/opinions on things and let that towniness shine through.
If ya scum, feel free to give up tho.

Your logic is flawed by assuming that my online times coexist with me actively reading and analyzing the posts. My “online times” that we’re sporadic then we’re when I was at work.

And again, not trying to break the rules. But I was checking something else that’s been going on for a lot longer than this.

[tictac]

Give reads/opinions on things and let that towniness shine through.

Then do this. ya good at doing this.
maybe don't focus on defense so much?

[Jamelia]

Give reads/opinions on things and let that towniness shine through.

Then do this. ya good at doing this.
maybe don't focus on defense so much?

Well, to be fair. Since my original first post/vote on Zenith, I’ve been asked several times asking to go deeper and deeper on a vote that was pretty simple - just voting for Zen because they allowed a L-1 to happen. This wasn’t that serious of a vote (first page), but it was taken very seriously. Which, fair, I should explain my vote regardless. But after that I felt like the attack against me was riddled with meta-reading and accidental rule breaking, which turned me away from even wanting to give a general read because I feel like that would just force me to be attacked again.

If this sounds “woe is me” then I’m sorry. Like I said before, I find most of my reads to be pretty null at the moment. I’ve said already that I lean zenith either scum, or just a really poor defender of a bad decision. I think the rest of town being quiet while Zen/Tic are fighting me/Suspic. January is odd because they’re knew, but responding like a vet. So that’s just something to watch out for.

I really don’t have a read on anyone else.

[tictac]

I think the rest of town being quiet while Zen/Tic are fighting me/Suspic.

yea. tbh I'm kinda uncomfortable w that.
fancy should be back soon, at least.

[Suspicious]

I think the rest of town being quiet while Zen/Tic are fighting me/Suspic.

yea. tbh I'm kinda uncomfortable w that.
fancy should be back soon, at least.

The fact no one has interjected much at all is the one thing making me doubt a Zen vote here. It seems as though it is being given a free pass to go through and I don't buy that kind of convenience.

@Cee you need to be making more of an effort this game. If you're town, inactivity just sets you up for a locked mislynch in the future.

[tictac]

vork also basically zero impact.