Mini 596 - Timesplitters Mafia (Mod Abandoned)

[W!nt3r]

Confirm Vote: Sun Tzu

Your WIFOM fails, and if you are what you say... Thanks for replacing into a game and not trying.

Your actions and willingness to play should not be reliant on the other players willingness.

[Sun Tzu]

What WIFOM? How am I not trying? You are an idiot and obvious scum.

unvote; vote W!nt3r

[Sun Tzu]

Anyway, how do you expect me to defend myself here? What am I defending myself against?

Present a case if you think I am scum. Let's see some evidence. Back up your claims. If you really hated stupidity like you claim, you would vote for yourself.

[Sun Tzu]

Your actions and willingness to play should not be reliant on the other players willingness.

I'm the only one even posting. Explain how I can play all by myself.

[W!nt3r]

OMGUS votes make the holes you dig for yourself, much deeper.

My case has already been provided. But for your temperamental, and clearly undeveloped brain, I am happy to reiterate it.

Firstly, you have been very inconsistant. You come in gung-ho about myself and ace being scum, first voting Ace, then exactly 1 post later, you change the vote to me, with little to no reasoning.

Secondly, you are overly defensive to the point of unsurpassed ridiculousness. Your OMGUS vote is part of this.

Thirdly, your first 4 posts just scream scum to me. I mean utterly, ear-drum-exploding, death-metal screaming from 20 full stack amps directly into my ears scummy. You go from "mellow was stupid, i'm retracting the claim" to "never mind, I'm the cop this guy's cleared and these two are clearly scum." The is grade-A mafia playing.... seriously, you are an awesome player... If you are in fact the cop, you are practically cat-bombing this entire game all by yourself.

Regardless of alignment that was a horrible play.

[Sun Tzu]

Where is the WIFOM?

How should I have played it?

[Sun Tzu]

Also, how do you figure I'm not trying?

I'm doing the best I can.

[Sun Tzu]

You're the one trying to lynch a town cop. That's a lot scummier than not being sure who to vote for.

Don't insult my intelligence. You're the one using numbers and punctuation as letters in your name. You're the one making vague half-claims. You're the one trying to lynch a town power role. You're the one who doesn't even know what WIFOM means. Don't try to pretend you know how to play this game. You are an idiot.

Explain your reasoning on how it could possibly be a good idea to lynch me. This is pretty basic mafia 101 stuff.

Also explain how you think I should have played this.

[W!nt3r]

How would you post if you replaced into a game where you're about to get lynched, you already outed your role and your view and the game moves along at one post a week?

I have no emotional investment in this game, and no I'm not going to put a lot of effort into figuring out who is scum. If I don't get lynched, I'm going to get night-killed anyway.

It's pretty stupid to ask more from me when no one is even posting.

This is the post that is both WIFOM, and you not trying, all wrapped up into a nice little package.

WIFOM: You concluded the multi post WIFOM statement by ending with... But if this and this are true, this also must be true, therefore what would you do.

You start by retracting your cop claim, something any player would do in your case, but then... you make an about-face and stick to the claim... In so doing you make the first bit of WIFOM by posting this:

I was considering retracting the claim since it was premature and only forced due to bad play, but it's true and the scum are going to to NK me now anyway. I am a cop and Ghostwriter is cleared.

So now, when you wake up day 3 and you're alive..? What should one think? You produced an escape plan, and a potential doc-finding scheme in this post by setting yourself up to be a "target" tomorrow should you remain alive...How did he stay alive? did someone protect him? Did the mafia try and kill someone else? these questions will clutter the day and end with a possible scum-town doc-fake claim of some sort.

which you then conclude with your "What would you do in my situation" quote... This boils down to(rephrased of course): "I'm scum, you're town. How would you, a towns person, act if you were replaced into a game such as this but you were the cop and not a scum goon? Once you tell me this i will be able to act like a townie and not be scummy to you thus clearing my name..."

Now, please answer my questions.

[roffman]

i'd just like to state that the thing that makes you look the scummiest is the retraction and then the retraction of the retraction. If you came outright and said, yes, it was a bad play, but i am a cop, then i would be as inclined to believe a normal cop claim, possibly slightly more as you had the opportunity for retraction. Similarily, if you had just posted a retraction, i would of completely ignored it as mellowed man being a moron. However, by first retracting, then confirming, it seems like you hadn't really considered all the options first, and you then realised that claiming cop is the safest thing to do. Which, by the way, is a very scummy thing to do.

There is also the concept of lynch all liars, which by your two consecutive contradicting posts, you clearly are (no offense). So for now, and for probably the rest of the day, my vote is staying on you.

one final thing

mod: can we please get some prods sent out

[Sun Tzu]

I never denied the cop claim and I never lied.

I considered retracting the claim but there is no point since the scum already know it has to be true.

Yes, it's true that the scum could leave me alive to put suspicion on me, but I get a view if they do, so that is a pretty weak argument. Do you really think I might be alive at the endgame and you guys won't know what to do? That's absurd. Either they kill me or I get views. They is no reason a townie should want to lynch me.

lol @ maybe the scum will leave an outed cop alive for WIFOM purposes

Haha, let's kill the town cop to prevent the scum from having that option.

pure genius

Maybe you aren't scum, but if so, you are a terrible player. You don't lynch me here, it's just stupid. Analyze it.

Even if you think I'm scum, it's a -ev play. Lynching a cop here is very bad. On top of that, you have no reason to think I'm scum.

If you are really town, you suck at reading people and you suck at strategy. That's why I think you have to be scum. It makes no sense for you to be town. If you really are that bad a player, I recommend you quit mafia and go play pokemon or something.

What's the plan when you lynch me and the mod says, "Sun Tzu was a Chastity. He was a town cop."?

Also, your WIFOM argument is bogus. I'm not using WIFOM at all.

[Sun Tzu]

I agree with "lynch all liars" which is why I'm leaving my vote where it is.

[W!nt3r]

What have I lied about?

Could you please answer the question I asked at the end of page 9?

[roffman]

I never denied the cop claim and I never lied.

I considered retracting the claim but there is no point since the scum already know it has to be true.

How did scum know it's true? all they have is mellowed man's observations, which people would naturally dismiss. also, your sanity is not guaranteed. In addition, w!nt3r's claim is a significantly more powerful investigative role, where he is guaranteed either a positive or negative result. Finally, can you please point out where w!nt3r lied?

[ace1217]

Sun. What are your results?

[roffman]

i think the mod might be lost in the aether, considering today was supposed to be the deadline.

mod if you are here: can we get a small deadline extension or pause or whatever at least until prods are set and picked up. mainly because we don't want night choices lost because people forgot about this game

[MeMe]

I've just been made aware of your situation here -- I've contacted ChaosOmega and expect that he'll be back in here within 48 hours.

[Sun Tzu]

Maybe Winter isn't lying. I suppose it's possible that he doesn't know what WIFOM means. In that case his cocky attitude doesn't fit well with his ignorance.

[roffman]

@sun tzu: ok, doing a complete reread of w!nt3r's posts, i could not find a single instance where he lied, or utilised WIFOM. The only point where it think you could be possibly be referring to is where he accused you of WIFOM, which he got spot on. I suppose it is possible you do not know what WIFOM means. in that case, your cocky attitude doesn't fit well with your ignorance

[Sun Tzu]

Point out where I used WIFOM.

[Sun Tzu]

To save you some time, there's a good description of WIFOM on the mafiascum wiki. Start there.

[W!nt3r]

The concept of WIFOM is based around assumptions, and "outguessing your opponent."

What you seem to think is that it is an objective term that can only be used in a certain manner. It is not at all close to that. Though there are famous implications of the phrase throughout history and literature, the basic concepts of it are all subjective to the person, and situation at hand.

Your comments in regards to my attitude are snide and unneeded, particularly when the irony is so thick.

[Sun Tzu]

Point out where I used WIFOM.

[Sun Tzu]

I'm also curious about the famous literary and historical uses of the term. Give me one example of each.

[W!nt3r]

I've already pointed out the posts that I think are WIFOM.

As for the examples, in the novel "The Princess Bride" by William Goldman, the characters Vizzini, and Westly, also known as the Man in Black, share an altercation in which they "face off" in a matching of wits revolving around Glasses of Poisoned wine. The result is a dialog explaining the concept of Wine in Front of Me, where the concept got its name.

A historical reference can be seen in a 2002 study on game theory proving that recursive reasoning, the inherent concept behind WIFOM, is an abstact institution, and can not exist in a rational world. The study can be found here: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_o ... 6613997ad3

Now can you please answer these questions:

Sun Tzu, can you explain why Ace is a better lynch than myself?

Can you post reasonable cases against both of us?