Mafiascum.net

In post 167, Zyla wrote:If I'm not mistaken, the only legal way to take 74 is as a joke, otherwise I think it falls under a trust tell
@Mod, can I get confirmation on if I'm correct with that?

This is scum seeing T3 towntell and then getting mad because it's a "trust tell".
VOTE: Zyla

T3 read goes from dropping like a rock to top town if Zyla is scum here.

In post 183, alstroemerial wrote:As of right now I'm comfy with my vote on James, but like I alluded to in my earlier post, I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of the two scum was trying to hide right now. When you consider that the four SEs are T3, VFP, Mini, and Cook, I get nervous that they are generally being quiet while the newbies drive so much of the conversation.

Townie paranoia

In post 208, Zyla wrote:Now hold on here. I quoted every part of your post and responded to it. It's not fair to imply that I didn't address the follow up when that was just the next paragraph.

Yeah, on reflection, I think I was being a bit too clever for my own good here. My intention was to do the same here as you did when you said you had already countered the point I made in #161 about it difficult to game out the reason why a Town!Zyla comes to the opposite conclusion on T3 because I don't have your justification for that read; by then giving that justification in your #167(B) post, which of course was posted afterwards. I wanted to see if you would call it scummy and then use it to 'gotcha!'; but thinking about it, it's not quite the same scenario. I'll disregard this entirely.

In post 208, Zyla wrote:You missed the option that I was thinking made the most sense, but I'll let James answer to see if I'm correct.

James: what made you say that our reads were for different reasons?

I'll take your word for it there is another option. I await James' reply eagerly.

In post 208, Zyla wrote:Gut reads can be strong sometimes, he seems to be posting in the same way as our last game together, which to me is good, even if not conclusive. I will update my read as the game goes on, but for now, he is still leaning town

In actual fact, I read game #2064 (and a couple of others) before this game started, whilst waiting for the queue to fire. I've never played forum mafia before, and I wanted to get a handle on the flow, the lingo, and try and solve the games myself purely as an observer, just to see if I was any good at it.
It might come as a surprise, but I was happy to see JamesTheNames' name [pun not-intended] on the list, because I liked their posts in that game and the approach mirrored how I thought I ought to play mafia (at least as town). I don't suppose it matters, but yours was another name I had the same feelings about.

So, I have to say, but I am sorry that I that he seems to be posting in the same way as he did #2064 (I am assuming that's the game you are referring to, please correct me if I am wrong). He's a likeable fellow, for sure, and I do worry that if we aren't just dealing with a {James, Zyla} scumteam in this game, that you are allowing your interactions in that past game to bleed over into this one, when it isn't warranted. I understand you actually played that game, and I started reading along with it as it was coming to a conclusion, and therefore you should have the better feel for it, but I think the differences are obvious enough (and I've already pointed out specific examples elsewhere) to wonder why you are so desperate to justify a gut TR for him to yourself.

With respect to GrandpaMo; my read remains a town lean, and I am slightly more convinced they are town then I was when I first delivered that read. The posts are somewhat confusing, the logic often doesn't flow quite right, and he flits about making reads and posts (like the abrupt scum read on Alstromerial) I just don't get, even when he attempts to explain, but what I get is a sense that Grandpa is trying as hard as he can to advance the game, and is getting as frustrated at not being able to put what he wants to put across effectively as I sometimes get frustrated trying to decode it. It seems far too...I guess genuine, to be scum deliberately trying to derail and distract, but the inconsistences and the effect it's having on town makes Grandpa the clear and easy target for a a mislim; and smart scum have probably tuned into that already. I don't think its a coincidence, for example, that both my scumreads are on that wagon.

In post 219, GrandpaMo wrote: anyways, it was suppose to be outta blue for a reason. just because u disagree wit me doesnt mean im scum? thats a fallacy right there. and how can i set up a set up as scum? that would involve 200 iq wifom. it doesnt advantage me if i try to set up alstro because i already sorta townread alstro and i probably think james flips scum here

Ok, you get one chance to convince me.

Why is James scum?

In post 229, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Ok, you get one chance to convince me.

Why is James scum?

Is this specifically directed to Grandpa, or would it help if I summarised the case for Scum!James as I see it?

In post 230, Val89 wrote:

In post 229, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Ok, you get one chance to convince me.

Why is James scum?

Is this specifically directed to Grandpa, or would it help if I summarised the case for Scum!James as I see it?

I didn't ask you.

In post 230, Val89 wrote:

In post 229, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Ok, you get one chance to convince me.

Why is James scum?

Is this specifically directed to Grandpa, or would it help if I summarised the case for Scum!James as I see it?

I don't read wallposts.
FYI.

Unless they're entertaining.

In post 234, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I don't read wallposts.

Ahh. That'll explain why you don't already know the case against James then.

In post 236, Val89 wrote:

In post 234, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I don't read wallposts.

Ahh. That'll explain why you don't already know the case against James then.

Who said i didn't know? I just didn't read it.
So you gonna summarize and make it readable? What is your best point for scum!James?

By the way, i'm not unable to read the post. But i think this is a nice experiment. Are you, Val. Capable of scum casing James by paraphrazing what you've said and making it very simple. Or is it too hard, in that case. Is the case's complexity exposing it's flaws or exposing it as fake?

He thinks being at the forefront is most fun; and that town should pick out someone they think are acting scum and tunnel on to them, keep the pressure up and find the cracks; whilst he implores people to explain and not to hide what they are thinking.

He just doesn't think that hard enough to actually do that this game.

Oh, and apparently he can read Zyla's mind.

In post 229, NorwegianboyEE wrote:

In post 219, GrandpaMo wrote: anyways, it was suppose to be outta blue for a reason. just because u disagree wit me doesnt mean im scum? thats a fallacy right there. and how can i set up a set up as scum? that would involve 200 iq wifom. it doesnt advantage me if i try to set up alstro because i already sorta townread alstro and i probably think james flips scum here

Ok, you get one chance to convince me.

Why is James scum?

This is because I disagree with your statement that his aggressiveness felt "geninue" I actually find it very very unnatural for someone to keep coming up with weak logic right after pivoting onto me. Yes, that is understandable to pivot on to me. But after Zyla's conclusion, it just seemed like James was trying to find an area to scumcase me. Look at the whole interaction with me and James...

Post 145 -- Just comes to the conclusion that I am pocketing Val? In what world that would benefit me? To get a an elim on James as scum? I wasn't even focused too much on James that point and was going to vote Zyla in fact just because of how they went against VFP for a "no lim"

Post 145 -- Also post 145, they say me talking in third person is scum? They never ellaborate and explain why. Just seems more farfetched BS. I then bring up the point to read my meta and see how I talk. Because if you do then you can see I talk in third person as town.

Then I tell them to look at context -- in which (probably) purposefully looks at the wrong context in post 139. I refute every claim -- and come up with reasonings / post numbers to show James the real context in post 146.

Then me redacting my reasonings on particular interactions -- Okay I can see how that could be scum. But it can also seem to be a towny thing after justification. I justified my reasoning on why I didn't wanna give out my thought. Why would I as scum risk just saying no comment when I know someone like James could possibly just scumcase me for it? I could have just kept it for my self. But no -- I wanted town to see that I actually had a point and thought I was thinking there and was going to go back to it after more interactions happened. I explained this in post 152 -- No strong arguement against it / Again just seems like a weak reasoning from James to scumcase me on.

Then , I get on James on how they disappeared. -- Then they reply that they slept. That is understandable and that is not why I fully gave them. (post 162)

Then they interact with others such as in post 163.

Then disappear again. Then I make another remark about them disappearing again because I really wanted them to respond to me at this point.

And see what they said. Then alstro gets offended and makes a point about them sleeping? That frustrated me because through the sequence of events, that is NOT what had happened.

In post 199, James comes back; still IGNORES me and replies to Val. In the mindset of town... Doesn't town become more focused on their scumread more? I feel like scum would try to find areas where they could just interact with another person other than scumread. Also this is a scum quote (also in the same post) where they say "As in I'm not stubborn enough to vote Val89 when GrandpaMo is giving me much scummier vibes." They reply to VAL saying this! But does not directly address it to me? Nor have addressed any other my points? It just looks like scum is hiding now.

Then boom disappears once again.

I am afraid he doesn't read walls, Grandpa; but he can apparently decide if they are entertaining or not without having read them.

That's some top tier deductive skills, and I'm waiting with baited breath to see it in action during the game.

In post 239, Val89 wrote:He thinks being at the forefront is most fun; and that town should pick out someone they think are acting scum and tunnel on to them, keep the pressure up and find the cracks; whilst he implores people to explain and not to hide what they are thinking.

He just doesn't think that hard enough to actually do that this game.

Oh, and apparently he can read Zyla's mind.

So he says town should tunnel a scummy slot but because he doesn’t keep tunneling slots, that makes him scum?
Is that your case?

In post 241, Val89 wrote:I am afraid he doesn't read walls, Grandpa; but he can apparently decide if they are entertaining or not without having read them.

That's some top tier deductive skills, and I'm waiting with baited breath to see it in action during the game.

If i doze off halfway through reading it it’s an unfun wallpost.

In post 240, GrandpaMo wrote:Then boom disappears once again.

Now i’m gonna comment on this since you bring it up like a real gotcha moment every second sentence in your post.
What makes it an scummy action from James to post periodically as opposed to him doing something NAI as posting periodically during his coffe break?
Now i ain’t saying James is 100% likely to be town but this feels like an unconvincing case.

In post 81, Zyla wrote:VOTE: VFP I don't like the fact that you seem to have chosen no-elims on D1 to be a hill you're willing to die on, nor the fact that you implied that you've won multiple games with a D1 no-elim when I can't find any examples

Pushing someone for the reasoning of them: "wanting a no lim" looks really bad for you.
And especially your switch to Grandpa.
I’d wager this up as an unconvincing buss on a scum buddy, or they just pushed VFP for an really bad reason before switching gears to Grandpa.

Zyla has the most chance of flipping scum here imo.

In post 242, NorwegianboyEE wrote: So he says town should tunnel a scummy slot but because he doesn’t keep tunneling slots, that makes him scum?
Is that your case?

That's the first half of it in 20 words or less, yes.

You've established you are a fan of conciseness, and James don't post all that much, but what he does post is consistently inconsistent with his own stated position of how town should/do act.

Am I wrong?

In post 247, Val89 wrote:You've established you are a fan of conciseness, and James don't post all that much, but what he does post is consistently inconsistent with his own stated position of how town should/do act.

Town stay inconsistent all the time.
Only scum cares about keeping up an appearance of looking good.
Changing a vote from a player they read as scummy to a new player they read as even more scummy makes sense as an progression so i disagree with your take that it comes from nowhere and that it is necesarilly an scummy act.
I’m not faulting you for the read as i generally think it is an typical reasoning for scumreading slots as an novice town player. But when you’ve played for a bit as i have you learn to recognize town from tells that don’t seem immediately obvious but are clearly there if you know what to look for.

In the vein of paraphrasing the case in as little words as possible:

"He's town because he gives no shits about doing this things he says town should do, I'm an SE slot you newb so trust me." I ain't buying that.

You buy his read on Grandpa as genuine? Zyla is the other one driving that wagon, and I agree she's likely flipping red here too.