Mafiascum.net

El Goosuki wrote:El G's vote on Nico is super-skeevy. It seems an awful lot like "shit, who's lurking harder than us? That's the only person we can vote in good faith!"

Agreed here. El Goosuki provides no reasoning for why Nico's posts are scummy other than the fact that they are limited in number. Nico's post's so far have been decent enough, even though limited in number. I chalk the last part up to his play in general. So overall El Goosuki's vote is a poorly placed one, which doesn't even make sense considering El Goosuki doesn't even try to undermine the case she is implying scum are driving, other wise El Goosuki would solely focus on that wagon alone.

Kunkstar, you are ignoring my argument that

Why are you ignoring this?

Kunkstar, you wrote: "" - that's because I have a neutral read on you, but I'm sure there is scum on your wagon just the same. And I think the scumbag is Nicodemus. You're whining that I'm not trying to dissolve your wagon??? Wut? It's not like I know your alignment, and you haven't been blinding me with townie sparkles to begin with. Yet, you are yourself undermining my Nicodemus read. is weird.

Your reaction makes me believe that Nicodemus might be bus'ing you, so I'm finding your wagon suddenly more attractive now than I did a few minutes ago.

-DGB

@ El G, convenient wagon hop? Do you mean like when you jumped on MoI? I see little in your case on Nico that doesn't apply to you either more or equally.

I jumped on MoI to save my own worthless skin, but then I reconsidered. How can you compare this to Nicodemos' 5 posts and 3 vote-hops???

-DGB

I'm behind again by a page or so, and there are some things since my last post I probably should reply to when I have time. Right now, my ISO reads on El Goosuki, MoI and kunkstar7 are long overdue, so writing those now.


It appears the case on them can be summed up as: lazy scum. There is some semblance of scum hunting, including reads on players, but absolutely no argumentation that would make these reads useful. I think it was xvart that pointed out this was typical of DGB. Then they were asking for a summary of what is going on, directed at LB. If we had a flip of LB that might tell us something, but meanwhile, it is odd that they would ask for a summary when they could easily get the information from fellow cultists if they were cult. So, definitely lazy, but are they cult? I've heard people say that at least one of them tends to lurk as anti-town, but that is not really conclusive.

Today we've got a stupid night action, all the more incredible since we'd have to believe that none of the three bothered to try to understand the rules. One of them had commented on hitogoroshi's guide too, so they should have known better. Problem is, cult friends should have been able to advise them on what to claim, so again this is not conclusive. Other than that, we've got more of the same from yesterday.

This much has been mentioned by others. The only new thing I found during my ISO read was an odd flip with first considering RC town, then suspecting him, then announcing he was town again. Relevant posts are 590, 1047 and 1050. In 590, they gave RC a town read. In 1047 they imply they could vote RC, meaning they find him suspicious. And less than half an hour later in 1050, they declare RC as town, and stick to that ever since. All three posts were by DGB from what I can tell, so this is not a problem with conflicting opinions within hydra. I would like to see these changing opinions on RC properly explained.

Then we've got this latest attack on Nicodemus. Sure his posts are few, but I for one haven't gotten such a scummy feel from their content. Yesterday RC tried to use Bowser as a distraction, the same slot Nicodemus replaced into. We've also got El Goosuki drawing attention to their laziness... just like RC did. It looks like this wagon could get interesting, and bears watching.


I had a scummy opinion of him based on recent posts, many of them by players other than MoI himself. I guess that speaks for itself, and the feel I got after a reread of his posts was quite different. There was some early focus on Furcolow, followed by AV and RC. At least the RC vote cannot be called opportunistic, he had indeed voiced his suspicions of him earlier in the day. His ISO analysis of RC looks genuine, and he commented that there could be confirmation bias involved. I guess that could be interpreted as giving himself an out in case RC flips town, but after reading RC's posts myself I agreed with MoI's view of him.

The case on MoI really started yesterday from VasudeVa's attack on him. In fairness I can only call MoI abrasive from that point onward. He was harsh in how he blew off VasudeVa's attack and Furcolow's support attempt. But I can't say I would not understand, I tend to be more annoyed with pointless accusations than with reasonable ones, and the way Furcolow used statistics to justify his vote was appalling. I also thought that VasudeVa's initial case was weak when I read it.

Today the abrasiveness somehow became a real issue, and I honestly don't follow why. It looks like much of this case is based on gut feelings, maybe I don't get it since I don't have the experience with MoI many of you seem to have. The one thing today I find genuinely strange is MoI's claim to be purposely trying to lower his NK threshold. I can sort of see it making sense if you have a power role, but in this game... it increases your chances of being lynched, while discouraging anyone from trying to protect you, thus making it more likely you'd be killed.

My read on MoI is mostly neutral, leaning scummy. This is the sort of case I'd vote to secure a lynch at deadline, at this point in the day I'd prefer to find something better.


Simply put, the case Wickedestjr made on him looks accurate. He has been lurking recently, he was focused on Furcolow. He also commented on the Fate/Benmage situation. So far so good... these were popular topics that day. But in addition to this, there is not much interaction with other players or attempts to find scum, mostly just theory discussion. The RC vote also looks bad, when you consider he'd only mentioned RC twice before that, from what I can see. Then we come to El Goosuki. However weak the stated reason for suspecting them was, El Goosuki has been rather useless, and their latest move does make them interesting.

So, guilty of lurking? Yes. Guilty of being cult? Perhaps. The RC vote is the worst of it, it does look opportunistic. My personal top suspect is still Baby Spice though, for her actions yesterday - time has passed since then, but the original reasons for finding her scummy are still there. What I've heard from her since has done little to improve my read of her, and I feel she has been conveniently forgotten with new wagons turning up.



Will keep an eye on how the El Goosuki and kunkstar7 situations develop, at the moment I find them both more suspicious than MoI.

kunkstar7 wrote:

El Goosuki wrote:El G's vote on Nico is super-skeevy. It seems an awful lot like "shit, who's lurking harder than us? That's the only person we can vote in good faith!"

Agreed here. El Goosuki provides no reasoning for why Nico's posts are scummy other than the fact that they are limited in number. Nico's post's so far have been decent enough, even though limited in number. I chalk the last part up to his play in general. So overall El Goosuki's vote is a poorly placed one, which doesn't even make sense considering El Goosuki doesn't even try to undermine the case she is implying scum are driving, other wise El Goosuki would solely focus on that wagon alone.

Hey Kunkstar, remember this?

kunkstar7 wrote: On another note:

Vote: El Goosuki

, I can get in on this right now. Seriously nothing from this slot at all, plus a pointless action even AFTER they read AND commented on hito's guide.

What exactly seperates Nico from El Goosuki in content? Why is it that you don't seem the least bit interested in points raised about Nico? Looking at his play I see a total of 5 posts, with 3 different votes laid out. When I see that, I don't see a player that's really looking hard into anyone at all. It just feels like trying to look proactive, when you're looking at it in isolation, it doesn't feel like he's really investigating into any of the suspects he's voting for. It's like the votes are cast out there and without much further inquiry he changes them.

What bothers me though is the way you attempt to completely vilify El Goosuki for the vote. And your defense of Nico. His posts are decent enough? How? Simply saying they're decent enough doesn't cut it for me. Enlighten me. What makes El Goosuki's "lack of content" scummy, and what makes Nico's "limited activity" pro-town?

i'm on page 88 at furpant's post under my last. i am going to read from 88 to 93 and respond to every single post.

before i do a followup post, i need to do a wagon analysis one since it is key

MagnaofIllusion - 7 (Trilobite, VP Baltar, Benmage, VasudeVa, hitogoroshi, Furcolow, Plum)
El Goosuki - 5 (Seacore, SpyreX, kunkstar7, Wraith, xvart, Nicodemus)
kunkstar7 - 5 (totallynotmafia, Wickedestjr, Furpants_Tom, nopointinactingup, Nicodemus)

i feel like there are a lot of scum on both the el goosuki and kunkstar7 wagons
i feel like kunkstar7 is who the mafia have decided is an easy mislynch.
he is, go look at the end of star aligned II. they were smart enough to keep 3 semi-VIs alive in ani/me/kunk
props to semioldguy for that.

kunkstar is a vi because he was deemed so in SA2 and he is being deemed so in SA3
kunkstar will flip investigator because he is a cultist push of a wagon
a lot of people are scummy on it
i dont know if we have enough time to switch, and im afraid MoI might be cult because there is a lot of people i view to be town on his wagon, but if MoI is town he is a valuable asset in scumhunting. Believe me, he caught me before. I am considering switching my vote off of him but I am quite torn on the matter.


- 7
(Trilobite - pro-town as fuck
VP Baltar - null read-wise but he is pro-town. I feel he is good enough to fake that as scum so I am mildly wary. Policy lynch for being too good? I really like his play in any game.
Benmage - We will see if he is town or not tonight, I guess. He could be cult, but I bet he's town.
VasudeVa - I am pretty sure VV is town if MoI is scum. If MoI is town, I am not sure if VV is scum. Kind of null, kind of town.
hitogoroshi - The most pro-town at the start, but I believe he needs to re-study the mechanics somewhat
Furcolow - the drunken village idiot
Plum - need to contribute to winning for the town or be lynched.

- 5
Seacore - my gut screams scum. I feel like he is good at wiggling out of wagons when he's scum, but I don't know him as a player yet. He might actually be town. I'm leaning scum slightly on him
SpyreX - defended me late after the whole LB/Fate/Benmage/Percy the great lord cthulhu altercation in which multiple souls had to be banished to the eternal abyss.... anyways
kunkstar7 - i believe he is a investivator vi. honestly. i've played with him as one before, will anyone else back me up on this?
Wraith - not sure. don't really like his play, but i have no read on him really.
xvart - is either very pro-town or good at making cute-claims as scum. i'd love to see him hang.
Nicodemus - cult
kunkstar7 - 5 (totallynotmafia, Wickedestjr, Furpants_Tom, nopointinactingup, Nicodemus)

- 5
(totallynotmafia - lurker imo
Wickedestjr- town
Furpants_Tom- town
nopointinactingup - it's him or feysal are cult imo
Nicodemus - where is nicodemus vote.....? i see two here. i'm sorry if this is lately notified, as I have yet to properly catchup. Thanks!

anyways, I feel like the slot Nicodemus replaced into tried to coast by as cult
I would happily lynch that slot.

The deadline for Day 2 is 10:30am, Wednesday November 24th default site time.

With 25 alive, 13 votes secures a Lynch/Dispatch.

10 players want a dispatch:VP Baltar - not as protown as i felt he was in SA2
kunkstar7 - investigator VI
MagnaofIllusion - obviously scum right?
Seacore - ''
nopointinactingup - not sure if he's an investigator or cult really
Trilobite - i like him as an investigator
manho - i'd be willing to lynch him because his votes have no fucking reasoning 90 fucking pages into a game
Wickedestjr - i viewed him as town even before the last night
Baby Spice - scumvi
Benmage - town vi or scum vi i dont care, i would lynch him... unless he murders a cult... in which case i will apologize and give him a medal or cookie, depending on his choosing, maybe both.

(Trilobite, VP Baltar, Benmage, VasudeVa, hitogoroshi, Furcolow, Plum)
(totallynotmafia, Wickedestjr, Furpants_Tom, nopointinactingup, Nicodemus, manho)
(Seacore, SpyreX, kunkstar7, Wraith, xvart)
(Triglav, Feysal)
( AurorusVox)
(MagnaofIllusion)
(El Goosuki)

Not Voting - 2 (Andrius, Baby Spice, )

is currently . The following players wish to : (VP Baltar, kunkstar7, MagnaofIllusion, Seacore, nopointinactingup, Trilobite, manho, Wickedestjr, Baby Spice, Benmage, El Goosuki)

Furcolow wrote:

@mod

where is nicodemus vote.....? i see two here. i'm sorry if this is lately notified, as I have yet to properly catchup. Thanks!

1. What do you think of the MoI wagon and it's constituents? Do you agree with my case?
Yes.
2. What do you think of the El Goo wagon and it's constituents? Do you agree with their case?
no.

4. What is your opinion on the dispatches?

5. Do you have any opinions as to the claims from N1? What about LB's insanity on their flip?

6. Care to share a quick town/scum list?

Seacore Post 2259 wrote:Could everybody not voting ElG please state why you don't believe they are scummy, when even they have admitted that they'd vote for themselves due to their behaviour?

Because as cult there would have been planning over night actions and such a useless action would have been thrown out the window. Basically why does a dumb move to be scum motivated? I don't see it.

Or what Triglav said in post 2276

Wickedestjr Post 2279 wrote:

Trilobite

, MoI has acted suspiciously, but at least he has made some attempt throughout the game to scumhunt. The same can't be said of kunkstar7.

True, we have called kunk scummy and he would be the only wagon we'd be willing to switch to. Kunk pressuring Babyspice to give scum reads is pretty funny considering his play so far. His day one play in particular was horrid.

Right now however, MoI is our number one scum pick and leading the vote count. We won't be switching.

You did a nice little run down of each of the top wagons in that post, but why didn't you do the same thing for Babyspice at the end of the post? That vote just feels horribly tacked on.

~Sotty

Deadline is on the 24 - we can lynch Nicodemus.

MOAR NICODEMUS VOATS PLOX

-DGB

kunkstar7 wrote:1) It wasn't till Hito finally explained how the mod response was formulated to handle the exception that it made sense why Furcolow was confirmed.
2) His botch of a claim made it so it looked like he was lying, so either Cult or Murderer-in-training. The second was more likely because with daytalk it would be less likely for them to botch that claim.

1) Are you talking about this post?
2) Did you want him lynched.
3) Defense?

El Goosuki wrote:Nicodemus - 5 big fat scummy posts.
nopoint - 24 skinny posts.
Furpants_Tom - Other than verbal diarrhea, the guy seems alright.

Wickedestjr - This guy is goo-o-o-o-d. He's the one who made the case against kunkstar that everyone is riding.

totallynotmafia - Makes good point against kunkstar. He looks clean.

I don't know if you noticed, but I'm nearly confirmed town.

I'm starting to suspect El Goosuki less than before. My favorite bandwagons are probably kunkstar7 and MagnaofIllusion. Kunkstar7 for the reasons I brought up earlier. MagnaofIllusion hasn't really done anything suspicious, but I like everybody on his bandwagon and he's starting to annoy me a lot with the lack of scumhunting, bad defenses, playing to survive, and deflections. It looks too scummy for him actually to be scum, but he needs to start playing to win. Not playing to survive.

More later.

Feysal wrote:The only new thing I found during my ISO read was an odd flip with first considering RC town, then suspecting him, then announcing he was town again.
...All three posts were by DGB
...I would like to see these changing opinions on RC properly explained.

<--all apply.
Clear reads from DGB is like pro-town play from drmyshottyizsick. It shall not be.
Think valid crux of "case" is still that the hydra is so stupid they must be scum, which makes no sense.
They are so stupid, yes.
Stupid = scum?

hitogoroshi wrote:Would appreciate someone with meta knowledge of MoI to weigh in on this one.

Would characterize MoI's play as intellectual base.
No matter his agenda a basic component is 'I am smart, listen to me'

@furcolow - did you just analyze counterwagons to MoI for scum prior to MoI scumflip? Please stop this.

Catching up from about Page 90 or so after falling behind later in the week.

nico wrote:it means I'm voting one of the "best" players out of the game, and for no reason other than I suspect they're scum. It's a real double-edged sword, and it makes me second-guess my reads on good players at least twice as much as on other players.

This unfortunately is applying to the MoI case right now. I respect him as a really good player, so I'm instantly more suspicious of him than I am of others. To complicate the situation, players like Oj, VP Baltar, and sotty have all said that he's scummy. But, I still feel guilty when I think about voting him because I don't want him to die if I'm wrong. I do see his scumminess, but I'm just less comfortable voting him than I am other players.

I'm sorry, but this stinks to high heaven to me. If Magna flips scum, Nico is definitely cult. How can you see the case and then not vote because of being a fanboy? He's either scummy or he's not.

MoI wrote:FACT – I questioned and put together a case on ReaperCharlie. You and others can cry all you want about it not being scum-hunting. It’s as much scum-hunting as ANYONE in the game has done.

Scum hunting and whipping together ugly iso posts are not the same thing. Also, lol @ scumhunting as much as anyone else.

Seacore wrote:Could everybody not voting ElG please state why you don't believe they are scummy, when even they have admitted that they'd vote for themselves due to their behaviour?

I do believe they are scummy and I definitely don't care for their complete lack of contribution thus far in the game, nor their ignorance of Hito's guide after reading it. I prefer the MoI case I made however, as I think it is a very solid compilation of points that were never really refuted at all. If it comes to deadline, however, I would definitely support an El G lynch.

re: kunkstar7 case for Wicked

I believe I did mildly comment on it, but I shall go into detail because I wanted to check his play here against his play in SAII first because I recall finding him somewhat scummy throughout a large portion of that game and he turned out to be town. I'll just address it point by point so my stance will be clear:


Meh, so have a lot of people. I'm not sold on this.


I agree that this is scummy and is definitely something I noted. Basically, all of the Furc tunnelers (kunk, MoI, babyspice, etc.) all made my short list for just that reason.


This was the main point of your case that made me want to read SAII. Looking back at that game, I only find this semi-valid here. He definitely talked about the setup a lot in that game and also spent noticeable portion of his posts talking about night actions/posting the night action table. I do think he's given very few stances in this game, but he wasn't exactly posting crazy amounts of good cases in the previous game either. I also noticed two other things on my iso of him in SAII: 1) the furc hate in this game was present in that game, however to a lesser degree. 2) kunk was more active in that game than this one. He did lurk some there, but I feel like he was at least posting consistently in that game.


Out of the votes you listed, I see the RC vote as the only one I'd truly call opportunistic and even that was heading in the direction of deadline. This point seems a little trumped up and I think his lack of voting is more of a tell than his wagon positioning you are pointing out.


True, but this is a repetition of the not giving reads point.

Overall, I think it's an ok case, but certainly not better than the MoI case. Not by a long shot. MoI has acted scummy, was called out, refused to answer the accusations against him in any real way and continues to attempt to bully people away from him rather than answer/scumhunt. It's textbook of a player who is perceived as a leader getting caught out as scum early.

Wicked wrote:Trilobite, MoI has acted suspiciously, but at least he has made some attempt throughout the game to scumhunt. The same can't be said of kunkstar7.

This wasn't addressed to me, but what scumhunting do you exactly see from MoI? His vote on VV?

Spyrex wrote:The "I am being scummy on purpose" defense is bad in most situations - namely, when Jojo the hypercharger death machine does it so that he keeps his "sweet ass role".

In this setup? It is terrible. Because, ultimately, it amounts to "I don't want to be NK'd so I'm gonna get lynched instead!"

There was no SHOCKING REVELATIONS involved. Nothing. Just self-preservation which is tech.

I completely agree with this. Why is MoI pushing this "I must survive line"? It's not like he's doing shit to help the town if he is town now and he certainly does not have any powers that the rest of the town is lacking. It's a BS excuse to scummy behavior. "You acted scummy!" "Yeah, I did....b-b-b-but it was on purpose so don't lynch me!" Give me a break.

Vote Count wrote:MagnaofIllusion - 7 (Trilobite, VP Baltar, Benmage, VasudeVa, hitogoroshi, Furcolow, Plum)

Just want to take this time to point out how many town looking players are on this wagon. If ever there was a wagon you could join and feel good about, it's this one.

In a strange turn of events, I actually like El G's #2295. People seem to be disagreeing with it, but I think you should actually look at backing for the El G and kunk votes.

Feysal wrote:Then they were asking for a summary of what is going on, directed at LB. If we had a flip of LB that might tell us something

Tell us something like what?

furc wrote:kunkstar7 - i believe he is a investivator vi. honestly. i've played with him as one before, will anyone else back me up on this?

I don't know if I would go so far as to call him a VI, but I will back you up that he was suspected in SAII for similarly poor play (focusing on setup instead of scumhunting). I'm not as sure as you seem to be about his town status, but I definitely feel MoI is a superior lynch at this point.

Triglav wrote:@furcolow - did you just analyze counterwagons to MoI for scum prior to MoI scumflip? Please stop this.

I don't understand what you're saying here. Are you saying that you or Furc think MoI will flip scum?

I'd like to make something clear.

The/My case on ElG is not that they are so stupid that they must be scum. It is that they are acting stupid but they have botched it, and they are therefore scum.

But why Seacore, why would somebody act stupid?

Look back at SAII and see how many people flew under the radar early, simply by not completely understanding the game. Look again at early SAIII, and see how many misunderstandings about the rules there were. In my opinion it would be easy to be seen as "not a threat, just snowed under".

Also, investigating somebody when you know investigation won't work is a great opportunity to hide something dodgy you've done either N0 or N1. "I couldnt' have been crafting fetishes N0, I was picking up an investigation kit". However, they crafted the fetish N0 and picked up the kit N1.

For people saying "but scum have QT, surely ElG would have been told something better to say"
I agree, however, scum aren't perfect and I believe this is their mistake. They missed ElG aknowledging Hito's guide. Night is a relatively short time to get night actions right, it would have been easy to gloss over specific claims.

In short, I'm not saying ElG is stupid, I've saying ElG has been deliberately acting stupid and has actually screwed up.

Trilobite wrote: Because as cult there would have been planning over night actions and such a useless action would have been thrown out the window. Basically why does a dumb move

have

to be scum motivated? I don't see it.

I just saw this and I think I can emphasise my point.

If manho or tnm claimed to investigate N1, I think they would have gotten away with it. Both could claim, "sorry, still not up with the rules".

There would have been a little fist shaking from the rest of us, pointing out hito had posted a guide, but it largely would have passed because of the page count.

So accepting that, scum could possibly have discussed claiming a crap night action as a good fake claim, along with searching for items, rezzing the ritual target and warding somebody. All I'm saying is they botched the night claim.

Trilobite #2312 wrote:

Feysal:

You did a nice little run down of each of the top wagons in that post, but why didn't you do the same thing for Babyspice at the end of the post? That vote just feels horribly tacked on.

Well, it probably feels that way because it is. I started those ISO reads trying to decide who to vote, but by the time I finished, I found I had doubts about all three cases. I think the case on Baby Spice from yesterday was better than any of these new ones, so I voted her instead. I also wrote that post in the wee hours of morning, and I was just too tired to do another ISO of Baby Spice to support my vote, so I left it as it was and went to sleep.

Off the top of my head, the Baby Spice case was originally about her inconsistency in calling Benmage town and anti-town, though I disagree with that point being scummy, once it was explained. Actual scummy things were her tunneling on Furcolow for way too long, the way she finally unvoted, and her and xvart both claiming to have warded MoI, all things pointed out by different people yesterday. I originally suspected xvart more, but my read of him has improved since then. I remain unimpressed with what Baby Spice has contributed.

VP Baltar #2316 wrote:

Feysal wrote:Then they were asking for a summary of what is going on, directed at LB. If we had a flip of LB that might tell us something

Tell us something like what?

If we knew LB was cult, I would consider this a weak town tell. I doubt a cultist would ask another cultist for coaching in thread, when they could do it in their QuickTopic. If LB was an investigator, this would probably not tell us anything of consequence.

Guys, I do believe we're starting to get awfully close to the deadline.

It's in ten days. That's not awfully close.

VP Baltar wrote:

Triglav wrote:@furcolow - did you just analyze counterwagons to MoI for scum prior to MoI scumflip? Please stop this.

I don't understand what you're saying here. Are you saying that you or Furc think MoI will flip scum?

We are noting how furc is counting his eggs before they are hatched.
The eggs.
Are not hatched.

Seacore wrote:In short, I'm not saying ElG is stupid, I've saying ElG has been deliberately acting stupid and has actually screwed up.

How do you differentiate between faked stupidity and real stupidity though?
Ockham's Razor?
You seem to be betting on the bigger number of people needing to be stupid.
Is there more to the case then this point?
If not we believe you have reached for the brass ring.
And currently hold straws.

We only have Feysal support?


Will probably need to reconvene heads and discuss alternate wagon option.
Unless everyone wants to give us early Christmas present and support this wagon.
Or pony.

Been reading (on the kindle) and thinking, and swearing at a laptop that has a battery life of 10 minutes

Was terribly interested in El G's (Well DGB) last couple of posts. Makes me think that DGB at least is starting to take an interest in the game.
Have to wonder why though. Or rather, why now? Perhaps the absent minded/dis-interest thing was an act and not working?
Which makes me wonder about their claimed n1 action. Sure it's a silly action but as a fake claim it suited the playstyle they were using, and as an added bonus makes us all believe that the N0 action was a search as claimed. What if it wasn't?

Not satisfied with MoI's answers, especially to the "Why not stalk/NK the person you want policy lynched" question and the deliberately appearing scummy actions. Someone once told me that "dribbling scum" was a good idea but MoI's actions in that reguard are scummy without the dribble if you follow me.

Not sure I understand Wickedest on Kunk. Lurkeristic and Furc-hate in a game that seems to have a lot of both. Hell, Furc is still the scummiest read I got and I know that that read has to be wrong. (Hito's(?) reasoning is fairly conclusive) Kunk seeming to cast suspicions about and defendign scummy Moi does make me wonder though.

Wickedest. I started trying to think of ways for Wicked to be cult, and decided that it would have required both Feysal and NoPoint to be scum along with him, and somehow I don't see that as being likely. Only one resus on Wicked maybe. But the two of them. Doesn't mean that one of Feysal or NoPoint can't be cult though.

Xvart is just hinky. Two wards in two nights, both with targeting that is, well , hinky, is suspicious.But that's all I think is suspicious about him.

In this reguard I'm looking forward to seeing what Xvart does N3.

Damn, I'm almost agreeing with Seacore. Any fakeclaim is a gamble, and good or bad depends on if it worked or not. Search occult/Investigate as a N0/N1 action works as a fake claim because the claimant wouldn't really need to fake a result. Could be used by a murderer wannabe too, not just cult.

I need to catch up. I have time to do so now and I will catchup. I am not sure what all I will respond to.
I heard noise last night
I am not bloody
I am an investigator

doing my catchup now
-furc