Mini 1626: Duck Tales Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #2300 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:16 am

Post by EXAKT Science »

Not_Mafia wrote:
DOMO wrote:
Not_Mafia wrote:You 're just honing in on "not behaving how town should; more likely to be scum".


fyp


This functionally the same, and not a response to my post

there's a distinction! one that you are downplaying immensely throughout this entire line of questioning!
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Post Post #2301 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:18 am

Post by Not_Mafia »

What is the distinction beyond the extra words?
Also, what is Not_Mafia doing? This is some of the worst play I’ve ever seen.
I will SEARCH for games with you and N_M to help you policy him.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
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Post Post #2302 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:21 am

Post by EXAKT Science »

Not_Mafia wrote:What is the distinction beyond the extra words?

the level of certainty, mostly. domo is not certain about who is scum. this is a townie thing! certainty is scummy! you're trying to twist domo's argument in such a way that he looks scummy and heat goes off of you. this is playing to stay alive, not find scum. as you mentioned earlier, this is a scummy thing to do! you're also getting cagey and defensive now that there are people casing you. also scummy!
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Post Post #2303 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:23 am

Post by Not_Mafia »

EXAKT Science wrote:
Not_Mafia wrote:What is the distinction beyond the extra words?

the level of certainty, mostly. domo is not certain about who is scum.


So I'm his biggest scumread, but he's not calling me 100% scum. I've never said he's doing the latter and that does nothing to change my argument, this is semantics.
Also, what is Not_Mafia doing? This is some of the worst play I’ve ever seen.
I will SEARCH for games with you and N_M to help you policy him.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
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Post Post #2304 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:25 am

Post by EXAKT Science »

no it isn't! the only way to ever call someone 100% scum is with a positive cop investigation! even the best scumread from a townie isn't going to be 100%!
are you 100% certain anyone is scum?
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Post Post #2305 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:32 am

Post by Not_Mafia »

Everything after the words "no it isn't" has literally nothing to do with my post, and how you interpreted my post as some sort of argument he should be calling me 100% scum is beyond me.

Now, either quote where I said he called me 100% scum, or explain how my argument hinges on that.
Also, what is Not_Mafia doing? This is some of the worst play I’ve ever seen.
I will SEARCH for games with you and N_M to help you policy him.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
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Post Post #2306 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:38 am

Post by DOMO »

Not_Mafia wrote:
EXAKT Science wrote:
Not_Mafia wrote:What is the distinction beyond the extra words?

the level of certainty, mostly. domo is not certain about who is scum.


So I'm his biggest scumread, but he's not calling me 100% scum. I've never said he's doing the latter and that does nothing to change my argument, this is semantics.


My problem is you doing scummy shit, ie advocating the modkill of someone you won't vote for. This is not semantics, certainly not from my pov.
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Post Post #2307 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:40 am

Post by EXAKT Science »

you are hedging so much, and continuing down a line of inquiry that does nothing to scumhunt! who is scum? is it domo? if you think so, why aren't you voting for him? your posts read hedgy and unwilling to commit to scumreads, just theorychat and semantics that does very little for town. do some scumhunting!

pEdit:
DOMO wrote:
Not_Mafia wrote:
EXAKT Science wrote:
Not_Mafia wrote:What is the distinction beyond the extra words?

the level of certainty, mostly. domo is not certain about who is scum.


So I'm his biggest scumread, but he's not calling me 100% scum. I've never said he's doing the latter and that does nothing to change my argument, this is semantics.


My problem is you doing scummy shit, ie advocating the modkill of someone you won't vote for. This is not semantics, certainly not from my pov.

this too! you have been acting scummy and are now getting defensive when called on it. this is scummy.
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Post Post #2308 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:40 am

Post by Not_Mafia »

That's not what I'm calling semantics Domo. What I'm calling semantics is Exact saying I'm warping your read because you haven't called me 100% scum, I'm asking him to show me where I've said you were, or how that means I'm warping your read.
Also, what is Not_Mafia doing? This is some of the worst play I’ve ever seen.
I will SEARCH for games with you and N_M to help you policy him.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
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Post Post #2309 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:41 am

Post by DOMO »

Ok well you're wrong about it being semantics, there is a distinction between your post and my fyp. You are suggesting I am making definitive assumptions about how town behaves. I'm arguing that I'm adjusting probabilities in response to events.

nm, let's make some assumptions for the sake of argument. You are town and I suggested that I wanted wreck's flip while not voting for him. Do you at least consider that I'm more likely to be scum than I was before I made such a comment?
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Post Post #2310 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:42 am

Post by Not_Mafia »

EXAKT Science wrote:you are hedging so much, and continuing down a line of inquiry that does nothing to scumhunt! who is scum? is it domo? if you think so, why aren't you voting for him? your posts read hedgy and unwilling to commit to scumreads, just theorychat and semantics that does very little for town. do some scumhunting!


Please just respond to my post instead of this continued evasion. You've accused me of warping Domo's read, back this up., this isn't theorychat, this is me asking to prove you're not just opportunistically pulling this out of your arse.
Also, what is Not_Mafia doing? This is some of the worst play I’ve ever seen.
I will SEARCH for games with you and N_M to help you policy him.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
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Post Post #2311 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:45 am

Post by Not_Mafia »

DOMO wrote:Ok well you're wrong about it being semantics, there is a distinction between your post and my fyp. You are suggesting I am making definitive assumptions about how town behaves. I'm arguing that I'm adjusting probabilities in response to events.

nm, let's make some assumptions for the sake of argument. You are town and I suggested that I wanted wreck's flip while not voting for him. Do you at least consider that I'm more likely to be scum than I was before I made such a comment?


I'm saying you're using some idea of being able quantify scumminess as the basis of your reads, and it's a flawed premise, and it's what lead you to misread both House and myself.

As a standalone event, yes it is scummy, I'm not saying it isn't. House's behaviour in a vacuum is also scummy. This is not what I'm disagreeing with. I'm saying you're not looking at these in context or looking at scum motivation.
Also, what is Not_Mafia doing? This is some of the worst play I’ve ever seen.
I will SEARCH for games with you and N_M to help you policy him.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
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Post Post #2312 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:55 am

Post by DOMO »

Not_Mafia wrote:As a standalone event, yes it is scummy, I'm not saying it isn't. House's behaviour in a vacuum is also scummy. This is not what I'm disagreeing with. I'm saying you're not looking at these in context or looking at scum motivation.


Well you're clearly wrong in your final point here. Of course I'm looking at scum motivation. Wanting the modkill of someone you are arguing looks town is the opposite of town motivated. I'm struggling to see how it comes from a town mindset. I don't want modkills, even when it's my top scumread, and certainly not when it's a townread.

If you acknowledge that as a standalone event, that your actions are scummy, then you should understand that it at least makes you more likely than you were to be scum, that your scum equity just went up, from the pov of uninformed town. So my premise is not flawed. It's just that recent results are unfavourable.
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Post Post #2313 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:57 am

Post by EXAKT Science »

Not_Mafia wrote:
EXAKT Science wrote:you are hedging so much, and continuing down a line of inquiry that does nothing to scumhunt! who is scum? is it domo? if you think so, why aren't you voting for him? your posts read hedgy and unwilling to commit to scumreads, just theorychat and semantics that does very little for town. do some scumhunting!


Please just respond to my post instead of this continued evasion. You've accused me of warping Domo's read, back this up., this isn't theorychat, this is me asking to prove you're not just opportunistically pulling this out of your arse.

look i misread that series of posts a little bit because my eyes glazed over when you started decrying real things as semantics. mea culpa. i still think you're scum, and that was easily the weakest point of my case! respond to the substance.
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Post Post #2314 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:59 am

Post by farside22 »

Not_Mafia wrote:
farside22 wrote:
Not_Mafia wrote:
farside22 wrote:1) you realize you quoted a comment I made that was 2 different things. One thing I'm talking about is you have expand on Jack fucking shit this game and the other was willing to hammer pine without ever saying anything about the spot.
3) what you pointed to is a contradiction and left bulba at l-1. Do you really think a response will happen?


1) I didn't realise, but that just means we're back to; what don't you like about my explanations?
3) It did happen , I was fine with it

farside22 wrote:I'm also noting nm you've been less then active till I called you out. Any reason for that?


You engaged me directly so I became more active, this isn't alignment indicative



1. My bad. I meant you tw hope he's modkill. I don't think it matters that Domo tunneled. Lots of players have been tunneling this game. Hoping for a mod kill on a town is skimmy.
2. He hasn't even fucking unvoted kcc. How the fuck are you okay with that.

You want to bring in meta, tell me are you more active as town or scum? Do you make cases and move on to other things you find scummy or do you take one thing and run with it all game long?
Link to examples if so


1) DOMO was doing it in a way were it dominated the thread though, and me hoping for the modkill was a clumsy way of me wanting a flip but not wanting to be on a TW wagon at that time


2) I hadn't realised, and I think he would have if Bulba hadn't been at L-1

It's not meta, if you directly engage any player, they will become more active. And my activity is inconsistent as both alignments, it depends on the strength of any reads I have and my general engagement in the game. I will only really make cases if I feel really strongly about a scumread and no one else is really going after that person, or if I have to i.e. LyLo etc...

Not_Mafia wrote:Waiting for mod to show up and hopefully modkill House so we can move on from this to either DOMO gloating or ending this tunnel. There's still a lot I dislike about TW from D1 but late D1 and today looks like frustrated town to me, the later parts frustrated town resigned to his lynch.

Timing of Pasch's vote noted

the bold and the quoted don't match.
You stated a frustrated town read on tw at the end.
Not null
Not leaning scum
Town
Why would you think you need to be on the wagon at all. Fuck inevitable.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
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Post Post #2315 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:06 pm

Post by Not_Mafia »

DOMO wrote:
Not_Mafia wrote:As a standalone event, yes it is scummy, I'm not saying it isn't. House's behaviour in a vacuum is also scummy. This is not what I'm disagreeing with. I'm saying you're not looking at these in context or looking at scum motivation.


Well you're clearly wrong in your final point here. Of course I'm looking at scum motivation. Wanting the modkill of someone you are arguing looks town is the opposite of town motivated. I'm struggling to see how it comes from a town mindset. I don't want modkills, even when it's my top scumread, and certainly not when it's a townread.

If you acknowledge that as a standalone event, that your actions are scummy, then you should understand that it at least makes you more likely than you were to be scum, that your scum equity just went up, from the pov of uninformed town. So my premise is not flawed. It's just that recent results are unfavourable.


Again, I did nothing to actually get House modkilled, this is not the action I'm talking about, I'm talking about me stating in thread I hoped for the modkill and my subsequent explanation. What's my motivation in posting something that it would be so easy to anticipate a negative reception for.

And this is why we're still having this argument, you're in this mindset of quantifying your reads, x scummy actions vs x+1 scummy actions, not looking at the player, what I'm trying to argue is that this approach to the game is what is causing you to misread me and House.

EXAKT Science wrote:
Not_Mafia wrote:
EXAKT Science wrote:you are hedging so much, and continuing down a line of inquiry that does nothing to scumhunt! who is scum? is it domo? if you think so, why aren't you voting for him? your posts read hedgy and unwilling to commit to scumreads, just theorychat and semantics that does very little for town. do some scumhunting!


Please just respond to my post instead of this continued evasion. You've accused me of warping Domo's read, back this up., this isn't theorychat, this is me asking to prove you're not just opportunistically pulling this out of your arse.

look i misread that series of posts a little bit because my eyes glazed over when you started decrying real things as semantics. mea culpa. i still think you're scum, and that was easily the weakest point of my case! respond to the substance.


So what did you misread and how has your argument changed? What is the substance I'm supposed to be responding to? Sum it up for me.

farside22 wrote:
the bold and the quoted don't match.
You stated a frustrated town read on tw at the end.
Not null
Not leaning scum
Town
Why would you think you need to be on the wagon at all. Fuck inevitable.


because I knew I couldn't stop the lynch, and that the longer it went on the more apathy inducing it would be in a game that was already suffering from it despite a day 1 scumflip
Also, what is Not_Mafia doing? This is some of the worst play I’ve ever seen.
I will SEARCH for games with you and N_M to help you policy him.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
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Post Post #2316 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:17 pm

Post by EXAKT Science »

EXAKT Science wrote:
Not_Mafia wrote:You're assuming town is going to be rational and/or act with their head 100% of the time

why would anyone assume that? town can be wrong. being wrong in and of itself isn't scummy. a town player can be wrong and push a bad case. this happens all the time, but the important thing isn't whether the case is correct or not, but what the motivation for making the case is in the first place. if you want to see a flip, vote it! why wouldn't you unless you wanted to distance yourself from it?

VOTE: Not_Mafia

well this post for one.
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Post Post #2317 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:58 pm

Post by Not_Mafia »

EXAKT Science wrote:
EXAKT Science wrote:
Not_Mafia wrote:You're assuming town is going to be rational and/or act with their head 100% of the time

why would anyone assume that? town can be wrong. being wrong in and of itself isn't scummy. a town player can be wrong and push a bad case. this happens all the time, but the important thing isn't whether the case is correct or not, but what the motivation for making the case is in the first place. if you want to see a flip, vote it! why wouldn't you unless you wanted to distance yourself from it?

VOTE: Not_Mafia

well this post for one.


This is a general response to a post I made about a specific post from Domo where I felt he was doing this. I know why it's bad to assume town will always be rational, that's I said it as a counter to Domo's read. And I've explained several times why I said what I did about the House modkill.

So, since you apparently misread mine and Domo's exchange, what is your actual point against me, because I have no idea, and your continued off topic responses aren't helping.
Also, what is Not_Mafia doing? This is some of the worst play I’ve ever seen.
I will SEARCH for games with you and N_M to help you policy him.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
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Post Post #2318 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:00 pm

Post by DOMO »

Right I'm disappearing for another day or so. I don't trust you lot enough to not speedlynch someone in the next 24 hours so I'm backing off for now.

UNVOTE:
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Post Post #2319 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:07 pm

Post by farside22 »

Look this is simple and I didn't get a response when I asked for it.
Nm stuck to a scum read with the same fucking reason he had since he started.
He's uninvolved in the siscussion and pushing his scum reads.
I checked one game and that will be my extent in meta research, which he fought for his scum reads and not so much on defense that game.
I did ask for links and got none so don't be looking at how dare I not do more.
There was no inevitability for TE. There was no fucking reason to vote for tw that early into day 2 for the reason stated.

Vote: not mafia
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Post Post #2320 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:08 pm

Post by farside22 »

Damn you post preview!!!
I can repost the above if anyone is confused.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
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Post Post #2321 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:18 pm

Post by Not_Mafia »

I really don't have the motivation to deal with this death tunnel, it's the same old song as yesterday's lynch, we get a couple of players locked in on a tunnel train at the exclusion of all else and next thing scum have slipped on and we have one viable lynch, 2 days with low info town lynches and 2 free NK's for scum.

High active town, killed n1
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=58899
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=50436

Low active, live to endgame
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=45060
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=58678
Also, what is Not_Mafia doing? This is some of the worst play I’ve ever seen.
I will SEARCH for games with you and N_M to help you policy him.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
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Post Post #2322 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:20 pm

Post by Not_Mafia »

VOTE: ExactScience
Also, what is Not_Mafia doing? This is some of the worst play I’ve ever seen.
I will SEARCH for games with you and N_M to help you policy him.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
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Post Post #2323 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:41 pm

Post by EXAKT Science »

Not_Mafia wrote:I really don't have the motivation to deal with this death tunnel, it's the same old song as yesterday's lynch, we get a couple of players locked in on a tunnel train at the exclusion of all else and next thing scum have slipped on and we have one viable lynch, 2 days with low info town lynches and 2 free NK's for scum.

High active town, killed n1
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=58899
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=50436

Low active, live to endgame
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=45060
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=58678

ugh more meta arguments. if you're aware enough of your own meta to base things on it, those reads cannot be trusted.
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Post Post #2324 (ISO) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:43 pm

Post by Not_Mafia »

Farside asked for meta links so i posted meta links, you still haven't responded to my post before, you're just swooping in every now and again when you can find something even slightly tangential to my posts to discredit
Also, what is Not_Mafia doing? This is some of the worst play I’ve ever seen.
I will SEARCH for games with you and N_M to help you policy him.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
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