TM2020 - Large Theme - Gay Mafia IV: TOWN WIN

[MariaR]

Oh cool, Dunn has Nom as town and Gif as scum and agrees with my Dave scumread. That makes me feel a bit better.
pedit: Yall made the person we probably want to see vote the most at the moment voteless? Whew.
pedit: I feel like I've made my EP stance pretty clear and I'm just waiting to hear reasons why he's town at the moment. The commuter thing is scummy in nature

[Flavor Leaf]

and it's not weird at all that people came in suggesting to lynch within that neighborhood immediately and to create lists of what order people would be willing to lynch each slot?

What do you mean by people? It was just me saying that, and people followed.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, how is it not useful to do the list like that if wanting to lynch within the commuters.

The majority of my plays when I do thing like that help solve scum nearly every single time, or at least cause some great discussion and things for players to be forced to take stances on.

Scum are constantly pushing aside things I do like that, so there is 100% scum within the people who pushed that aside, BELIEVE IT!

[Dr Easy Bake]

Sign me up. But what's the policy on getting myself off during this?

You misunderstand the kink; the humiliation is what's getting you off.

Yeah I got that but I mean, I'm not just gonna tantrically get off without physical touch. At least I haven't tried yet, and I've never had that "in my pants" moment.
My question is if I can whip it out in the corner or do I have to wait and think about it later?

[Flavor Leaf]

and it's not weird at all that people came in suggesting to lynch within that neighborhood immediately and to create lists of what order people would be willing to lynch each slot?

What do you mean by people? It was just me saying that, and people followed.

I actually have a great town record, and even my what people will call “bad town games” i usually catch at least 50% of the scum.

A50 knows I am one of the, if not, the biggest threat to his scum game, which probably makes him super happy if he rolls town against me.

I am better at town than I am scum. I’m just unorthodox as is my scum game.

[chennisden]

Hot take: Maria is TOWN (but I'll deny I ever said that if asked for an official statement)

Very, very cold take tbh

[davesaz]

Oh cool, Dunn has

Serious mistake listening to Dunn on pretty much anything.

[chennisden]

What's up with the pessimism?

I wonder why I'm pessimistic

In posts 1411 and 1412, Elements committed a trust tell, which breaks site Mafia Rule #2. From the definition of trust tells:

A trust tell fits both of the following criteria:

The player insists that they only do this behavior as a certain alignment, and never as any other alignment.
The player, over the course of multiple games, only does this behavior as a certain alignment, and never as any other alignment.

From this post, Elements doubled down by continuing to insist he's never voted himself as scum (breaking the first definition for trust tells) and then stating he's done it over the course of multiple games (breaking the second definition for trust tells). This objectively fits the criteria for a trust tell.

As such, the Team Mafia Mods have agreed to the following actions:

• Effective immediately, Elements has been modkilled in Gay Mafia IV. A flip will follow shortly, and the game will move into Night 1.
  
• Elements will flip his initial role, allowing Team "Team" Team to continue to score points if town wins Gay Mafia IV.
  
• However, due to the modkill, Team "Team" Team will receive a tiebreaker penalty, putting them at a disadvantage for scoring if they happen to tie with another team.
  
• Elements has been removed from the Team "Team" Team Private Topic.

We regret this situation has occurred. Remember to be sure not to skirt any site rules, even unintentionally. That doesn't fly during regular mafia games, and it won't fly in Team Mafia, where we're making extra sure to protect the integrity of the event.

If you have any questions, you may PM the Team Mafia Mods.

[davesaz]

Can we skip all the self promotion videos? They really don't help town in any way.

[kuribo]

Sign me up. But what's the policy on getting myself off during this?

You misunderstand the kink; the humiliation is what's getting you off.

Yeah I got that but I mean, I'm not just gonna tantrically get off without physical touch. At least I haven't tried yet, and I've never had that "in my pants" moment.
My question is if I can whip it out in the corner or do I have to wait and think about it later?

You're supposed to sit in the corner and think about how you couldn't please my mom because you're too tiny and weak, and how humiliated you are that the bucks in the top group get to have their way right in front of you


Probably best if you wait till later otherwise it's ménage and that's a whole different reader expectation

[chennisden]

Oh cool, Dunn has Nom as town and Gif as scum and agrees with my Dave scumread. That makes me feel a bit better.
pedit: Yall made the person we probably want to see vote the most at the moment voteless? Whew.
pedit: I feel like I've made my EP stance pretty clear and I'm just waiting to hear reasons why he's town at the moment. The commuter thing is scummy in nature

This may be the first time I've agreed with everything Dunn said

[kuribo]

there is 100% scum within the people who pushed that aside, BELIEVE IT!

I mean considering only like two other people went along with it, that's not a hot take


By sheer numbers there's the expectation that at least one scum is in the majority of players.


Explain to me your proposal's benefit to the town

[Dr Easy Bake]

Sign me up. But what's the policy on getting myself off during this?

You misunderstand the kink; the humiliation is what's getting you off.

Yeah I got that but I mean, I'm not just gonna tantrically get off without physical touch. At least I haven't tried yet, and I've never had that "in my pants" moment.
My question is if I can whip it out in the corner or do I have to wait and think about it later?

You're supposed to sit in the corner and think about how you couldn't please my mom because you're too tiny and weak, and how humiliated you are that the bucks in the top group get to have their way right in front of you


Probably best if you wait till later otherwise it's ménage and that's a whole different reader expectation

Ok Daddy.

[chennisden]

BELIEVE IT!

だってばよ

[EspressoPatronum]

Terms:
- Outing neighbours - outing the players within each hood. This DOES NOT include outing the hood powers, survivor power, or flavour of the hood. I also use ' outing group distribution' synonymously with 'outing neighbours'
- All-town good - a neighbourhood without any scum in it
- Scum hood - a hood including at least 1 scum

i see your logic behind it, somewhat, ep. but it doesn’t really make that much sense ultimately. i dont see the motive scum has to shoot all-town to give them their last-man standing, when scum would wanna take it from their own hoods.

Getting back to this from earlier:

It's important to recall that scum knows every single member of non-scum hoods.

You argue that scum won't target anyone in the composer group if they know it's all-town, as this would prevent the vig survivor power from activating. Scum already know if the composer group is all-town because they necessarily know the members in all scum hoods.

If, as you say, scum is disincentived from targeting all-town hoods, then outing the group distribution won't change anything with regard to scum's targeting.

ep’s probably townie because of that statement though. i dont think scum forgets they have a factional chat.

That's such an easy slip to fake though and it's been done dozens of times over the years.


I don't like the whole "We should just out all the group stuff." Fun Fact, in two of the three previous Gay Mafia games, the scumteam had most of the town's claims by Day 2 because town just kept blurting them out like dummies.

I didn't say we should out all group stuff. I said we should out the members of each neighbourhood.

Outing neighbours is very different from outing all of the group stuff.

EP is partly right on hoods, maybe even mostly right.
[...]

You say that some/most of my argument is right. What part of my argument is wrong?

Actually, fuck it:

VOTE: EP

My most confident SR at the moment, and I think if you reread his posts of today you'd deduce there are exactly 4 scums (i.e. we have TWO all-town hoods).
[...]

I don't understand how me advocating to out neighbours ==> exactly 4 scum hoods.

I get that you think I'm scum, but can you pretend I'm town for a moment and walk me through your reasoning?

I think we should also out neighbors in general. Not the powers, just the composition of the neighborhoods.

I'm glad you agree.

[...]

TL;DR knowing hood members might help us out in the long run. Sharing this info is low risk because scum already knows the information anyway.

Outting who has a hood with each other was stupid in the first place but considering we did some of that day 1 it’s kinda late for that. But I don’t see any reason to fully do it and just put ourself out on a line like that.

Did you read the entirety of my post?

If you didn't, I'd really appreciate it if you took a few mins to look it over. It's pretty unfair of you to assert that town isn't working together when it seems you aren't engaging in a good-faith effort to hear out views contrary to your own.

In the case that you've already read my post, why do you think outing neighbours is stupid?

Well I'm right here ya know You more than anyone should know my opinion on where I think this is gonna go

to hell?

Yeah this game was played really poorly on a mech standpoint and this town has like no teamwork atm. (Besides a select few people)

I've admittedly been absent this, but I think discussing our treatment of the hoods is a valuable step in gaining some team cohesion.

If you disagree, can you spell it out for me? Also, do you have any specific questions for me that are unrelated to the hood mechanics?

[chennisden]

If you out your neighborhood I am going to make sure you die. Don't.

[EspressoPatronum]

If you out your neighborhood I am going to make sure you die. Don't.

Jokes on you bcz my hood already got outed.

But actually... why do you think this?

[kuribo]

The problem with outting who's in what hoods is that yeah, scum knows which hoods have their members in them and which neighborhoods are all town

But they don't know who's in what groups unless there's a scum in them. We already know that an ability existed last night that publicized a group's abilities. Claiming who's in what groups gives them a roadmap as to who they should prioritize should they find out other group abilities.


Lemme soften it down a bit:

Players A B C and Fuckwad claim to all be in group Sitting Ducks.

Scum uses an ability to find out to find out what the Sitting Ducks do. And it's a good one. So they start killing off that group. Or they know who to play against one another to fuck with that group ability and they know who to pocket.

They already know the makeups of the groups they're in. Why the fuck does it help the town to just fill the blanks in for the scum team?

[chennisden]

If you out your neighborhood I am going to make sure you die. Don't.

Jokes on you bcz my hood already got outed.

But actually... why do you think this?

because it's antitown

[chennisden]

there are probably some town hoods that get REALLY REALLY bad if scum controls them.

this hood discussion is REALLY REALLY bad for the gamestate.

you guys outing your hoods like dumbshits is REALLY REALLY bad for my sanity.

[Almost50]

I get that you think I'm scum, but can you pretend I'm town for a moment and walk me through your reasoning?

If there were 5 scums then you already know who the 3 players in the all-town hood are. I did reconsider 4 though and said there may only be 3 scums with lots of power based on a recent game I was in.

The thing is Town does NOT benefit AT ALL from outing the distribution of the hoods. Like, what would it change for you -assuming you're town like you requested- to know X, Y & Z are grouped together? Would it make any of them look townier/scummier to you? I don't think it would. It just gives scum a missing part of the puzzle they're not yet privy to. At least that's the way I see it.

So, basically: You argue that scum already know and I argue they probably don't. You argue that it doesn't hurt the town and I say it doesn't benefit the town.

[chennisden]

It's like saying "if I'm a dumbass I'll give you 100 dollars"

1) no reward
2) risk
3) you're probably a dumbass, you're losing 100 dollars

now change "a dumbass" to "antitown" and change "I'll give you 100 dollars" to "I'll help scum for shits and giggles"

[chennisden]

Also

Does town REALLY say "I get that you think I'm scum, but can you pretend I'm town for a moment and walk me through your reasoning?"

[EspressoPatronum]

The problem with outting who's in what hoods is that yeah, scum knows which hoods have their members in them and which neighborhoods are all town

But they don't know who's in what groups unless there's a scum in them. We already know that an ability existed last night that publicized a group's abilities. Claiming who's in what groups gives them a roadmap as to who they should prioritize should they find out other group abilities.

Per last night's public role, we learn the power of a specific hood per the flavour of the hood.

Outing the group distribution of the hood is not the same as outing the flavour of the hood.

Lemme soften it down a bit:

Players A B C and Fuckwad claim to all be in group Sitting Ducks.

Scum uses an ability to find out to find out what the Sitting Ducks do. And it's a good one. So they start killing off that group. Or they know who to play against one another to fuck with that group ability and they know who to pocket.

They already know the makeups of the groups they're in. Why the fuck does it help the town to just fill the blanks in for the scum team?

As stated above, all I'm advocating for is the following:

Players A B C claim to be in a group.

They should not reveal their flavour yet (ie. Sitting Ducks).

Even if scum knows players A B C D E F are in all-town hoods, learning the Sitting Ducks power does not immediately reveal their information.

However, I take your point that it gives scum an avenue to eventually find out. To this, I respond in two ways:
1. What do you think of Vex's point that scum is disincentived from killing all-town hoods? We all know that the survivor powers are really strong, so why would scum want to give all-town hoods the survivor powers? I think it's more likely that scum would want to kill or lynch within scum hoods to gain control of powers.

2. Scum already has wayyy more information than town, as they know some/most of the information on: hood powers, hood survivor powers, hood distribution, and hood flavour. Since the disparity is already so wide, I think the risk posed by your Sitting Ducks example is worth the potential gain of town-wide information.

[EspressoPatronum]

If you out your neighborhood I am going to make sure you die. Don't.

Jokes on you bcz my hood already got outed.

But actually... why do you think this?

because it's antitown

there are probably some town hoods that get REALLY REALLY bad if scum controls them.

this hood discussion is REALLY REALLY bad for the gamestate.

you guys outing your hoods like dumbshits is REALLY REALLY bad for my sanity.

Why do you think that scum can gain control of town hoods?

To my knowledge, scum has no way to gain control of all-town hoods.

If scum want to gain control of a scum hood (ie. A hood with at least 1 scum), they can already do that with the information they have. Outing hood membership does not impact this at all.

It's like saying "if I'm a dumbass I'll give you 100 dollars"

1) no reward
2) risk
3) you're probably a dumbass, you're losing 100 dollars

now change "a dumbass" to "antitown" and change "I'll give you 100 dollars" to "I'll help scum for shits and giggles"

I don't think you understand my argument.

You keep telling me that outing hood membership (AGAIN: not flavour, power, or survivor) is bad, but you have yet to point to a convincing reason why.