Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[Furcolow]

It explains Fatehate/fatestalk/fatelynch.
Why try and claim a kill when he can claim to have stalked the lynched player, or claimed to have changed his mind.

Far fetched but it does explain a lot.

It also begs the question if we were about lynch the person Benmage was going to stalk would he say anything?

Can we lynch Baby Spice today? That would be exciting.

Actually, I'm not opposed to this action, but I would be much more supportive once RC flips and if he flips Cult.

I looked at the OP and I think that everyday we should be claiming if we are bloody or not. Here's why: The only ways you can get bloody are by being resuscitated from a kill successfully, trying to murder a player, or trying to kill a player in the ritual. The only way that a townie can get bloody is if somebody tried to kill them, and that's something we should be claiming. If we claim this everyday, and an investigator with a forensic kit discovers that somebody is bloody that wasn't supposed to be actually was, then that means they are either a cultist or a murderer. This is very important information. So, we should be claiming if we are bloody, but that is basically just claiming that you had been successfully resuscitated. Learning who was successfully resuscitated from a kill is information that doesn't help scum that much, because it is information that they already know (if cult's target was protected they'd know about it, and I believe cult should know who is getting murdered based on who heard noise).

I agree with claiming if we are bloody or not. Even so, if the Cult/Murderer are forced to be claimed bloody at the risk of being outted by someone investigating him/her, then they have to concoct some fabricated story that will hopefully catch up with them some point down the line.

I looked at the OP and I think that everyday we should be claiming if we are bloody or not. Here's why: The only ways you can get bloody are by being resuscitated from a kill successfully, trying to murder a player, or trying to kill a player in the ritual. The only way that a townie can get bloody is if somebody tried to kill them, and that's something we should be claiming. If we claim this everyday, and an investigator with a forensic kit discovers that somebody is bloody that wasn't supposed to be actually was, then that means they are either a cultist or a murderer. This is very important information. So, we should be claiming if we are bloody, but that is basically just claiming that you had been successfully resuscitated. Learning who was successfully resuscitated from a kill is information that doesn't help scum that much, because it is information that they already know (if cult's target was protected they'd know about it, and I believe cult should know who is getting murdered based on who heard noise).

I agree with claiming if we are bloody or not. Even so, if the Cult/Murderer are forced to be claimed bloody at the risk of being outted by someone investigating him/her, then they have to concoct some fabricated story that will hopefully catch up with them some point down the line.

MoI's attacks on Furc are MoI's attempts to

look

like he's scumhunting. Seriously, his attacks are HORRIBLE and his justifications are just as bad.

What about my attacks on Furcolow? Were my reasonings better than MoIs?

I like Wickeds case on Kunkstar, and would switch to that wagon accordingly.

vote: moi

policy lynch
too tough to read him

What's the policy?

Am I the only one who finds Xvart and El Goos targeting each other slightly hinky. Especially with El G choosing to look for something that couldn't be there.

Nope, that's definitely odd. And for xvart, a rather unlucky coincidence, considering his N0 action was to target someone also targeted by Baby Spice.

Xvart's explanation for his Goo action is interesting, but by the end of D1, I'm pretty sure that Furcolow's story was well accepted. Moreover, given that there had already been a mod clarification that pretty much spelt out what would happen in Furcolow's case, I don't know what additional proof you were looking for. So it's difficult to see exactly how your action benefited the town.

Warding people on N0 and N1 is fine; but the unique circumstances of your actions are starting to cause me puzzlement and dismay.

Xvart: Do you think that anyone else was likely to have been targeting El Goosuki last night?

Well, you may be right that it didn't benefit the town, but it benefited me; like I said, it cleared it up for me so I could move on, and if you've played with me before you would know that I have a terrible way of holding on to things forever and tunneling. Also like I said, my original plan was to change my action, but after I got a response from VI I decided that might be considered unethical and gaming the system, which I didn't want to do.

As for your question, I don't know if anyone else would be targeting El Goosuki last night. From my perspective now, maybe a fellow Cultist warding to protect against a Stalker.

Caught up through 87. More later; but I want to add that I'm going to be super disappointed if El Goosuki loses votes while they continue to lurk and not read and not play.

xvart.

not reading =/= not investigator

in response to the bolded and underlined: I actually like your reasoning more. I feel like you are trying a pro-town tactic to confirm me. I will probably die tonight, but I won't go down that path right now. I like your case more because yours carried the opportunity for me to have been fakeclaiming and going down the path of the murderer. The thing is, I pride myself on my lower-level math, and I realize that winning as a murderer is statistically fucking nearly-impossible. Couple that with my liking to win, and yeah, not me... not my style. not once, not nevuh.

MoI's case is null. He would push my lynch as town or as scum.

In response to the italicized: I feel MoI is a good player. I do not want him as scum in my game. If he is town, that sucks, but he is too hard to read. Having an easy read on someone (like me) helps the town. Having a hard time reading someone like MoI hurts the town from my perspective.

He is a policy lynch because he is a good player. Furthermore, I feel like he would be posting more as town and whining less. I am keeping my vote where it is.

Nice way to not answer the question. It sounds like you're saying you don't want to stop him from killing, but do you think Benmage SHOULD kill tonight, and why?

The obvious answer is that Benmage should not kill.

1. The odds that he hits Cult, despite his bravado, are slight.
2. Keeping the Town alive pool as big as possible until we get some actual alignment flips to work with for relational tells will aid the Town long term.
3. The precious free Vig bite Investigators get should be saved until midgame.

My question to you – what purpose do you have asking the question. It’s not going to tell you one bit about my or anyone else’s alignment.

See, the problem here is that you deny 1 and 2 while admitting to them at the same time... that's spinning my brain around in circles.

Also, saying you're doing things to avoid being killed early amounts to admitting that you're playing scummy. You can't say that people don't have legitimate points on you when this is your defense for those actions.

Denying they are any sort of indication of scum-tells doesn’t mean I haven’t been purposely abrasive. If abrasiveness was a scum-tell Fate, Benmage, Sociopath and a host of others would have to be Mafia EVERY game. Making myself disliked for my abrasivness (and creating the air of future lynchability) hardly is commiting scummy actions.

Oh! It's your playstyle! Uhhh... no. That's not an acceptable reason to not be scumhunting.

Yet I am scum-hunting. I admitted it would be HAMPERED until relational tells appeared. You are specifically ignoring what was said and repeating the falsehood.

FACT – I questioned and put together a case on ReaperCharlie. You and others can cry all you want about it not being scum-hunting. It’s as much scum-hunting as ANYONE in the game has done.

Which is it?

Are your purposely being dense and attempting to assert some sort of contradiction here?

IN GENERAL lurking isn’t a scum-tell for everyone. However, in the case of a HYDRA WITH THREE PLAYERS WHO AREN’T IDIOTS the amount of lurking being done by El Goo leads me to believe they might well be scum. Especially when at least 1 of those heads has a history of laying low when scum.

In fact any of the Hydras in this game that are having a hard time keeping pace while single players are easily able to should be considered suspect.

What are you trying to say here? Are you actively susicious of me, or just don't find me obv-Town? If it's the latter, but you currently don't suspect me, why write this at all? If you do suspect me, why did you write this not as a case but as an admonition to anyone who finds me Townish? In either case I don't see a good reason for this to be formulated the way this is.

Nice. You pop up suddenly when your name appears in a less than positive manner. And you don’t address the issues I addressed. I’ve been hammered for being only about self-preservation and here’s a perfect example. No comments about issues not aimed directly at you or scum-hunting?

You are definitely not obv-Town.

As for the rest of the questions? Sorry, you blew off my question regarding El Goo not once but twice. I don’t know why you should expect me to do you the courtesy you didn’t extend.

MoI, do you really think I'm scum? Why are you voting for me? Do you even have a case?

You don’t have a case on me. Why should I need one on you? Why so touchy about a single vote?

Bro-drius, I know you're busy and all but can you please grace us with your presence? Your last post was on Nov 4. I'll ask you these questions to help you ease back into the game:

Yeah, after he’s been called out for lurking making his transition back into the game easy is so nice of you. And you very well know he had plenty of time to SPAM the Dead QT in LOTR Mafia so he had time to post here. But please, make excuses for the player who you logically should have no idea of his alignment.

Well, the overlap isn't just between two investigators - as you say, that's statistically likely (assuming randomness). However, the likelihood of three actions targeting the same player (cult, npau, Feysal) is significantly smaller, and no-one's pointed to any standout qualities of Wicked that might attract these actions, over, say, VP Baltar or xvart. However, there's a limited field, and potentially a fair few kits, so I haven't entirely disregarded the possibility of a coincidence; I'm just skeptical at this point. I think it's at least as good an indicator as any of the behavioural reads people are throwing around.

I think the scepticism is healthy. And you are correct that the behavioral tells being presented are very weak at this stage. I guess I’m not willing to focus my attention directly based on what could be happenstance. This incidence goes in my back pocket for future relational assessment of Feysal and NoPoint.

If you don't think Furc is of any use to the town, why didn't you just stalk him and vig him out? Confirming your status as an investigator in the process.
If you don't scum hunt well before flips are revealed, why not keep a bit quieter and wait for them?
If you wanted to dribble scum to avoid being a NK, why do so in such an abrasive fashion? Especially in a game with so much potential for "doctor" saves for those who manage to get obv/confirmed town status.

Stalking and killing someone right out of the box is absurdly Anti-Town. The one free bite at the Vig every investigator had should be saved for the strategic time later in the game.

I said my abilities were hampered before flips not that I’m an idiot. I can point to any number of games where I nailed and lynched scum Day 1. Most of those coincide with me being killed early. Once Reaper’s alignment is known we can assess the quality of my Day 1 case.

The potential for Doc saves are highly overrated, especially if you consider that anyone using a Rez kit can’t be rezzed. And I’ve died many a game which had Docs while being ObvTown. There are enough ‘name’ players in the game that banking on protection is a dumb move.

What in the name of everything holy is this?

"I'm scummy on PURPOSE, yo" is garbage. In THIS setup with no PR's I have no words.

Spare me. You’ve made a career here of being obtuse and annoying as a tactic to limit your perceived obv-Town status.

MoI ditches the ElG wagon when it started taking off, ElG votes MoI but then removes the vote.

So you are saying, as scum-buddies, that the smart play would be to abandon each other’s wagon as the were built?

And wouldn’t I have to have voted for El Goo at any point today to have ‘abandoned the wagon’? Because I didn't vote for them today.

This unfortunately is applying to the MoI case right now. I respect him as a really good player, so I'm instantly more suspicious of him than I am of others. To complicate the situation, players like Oj, VP Baltar, and sotty have all said that he's scummy. But, I still feel guilty when I think about voting him because I don't want him to die if I'm wrong. I do see his scumminess, but I'm just less comfortable voting him than I am other players.

I have to ask Nico – where does your impression of my ability come from? We’ve never (unless I’m having a senior moment right now) played a game together and I’ve never been modded by you.

I’m going to say to you what I said to Mina after Clash of Kings – never let a players reputation affect your willingness to vote when you think someone is scummy. Too often people with reps get a pass because ‘Player Y is so awesome and if I voted him and was wrong it would be a huge mistake’. And they shouldn’t. It’s one of my major peeves about the culture here on MS (or part of it, I also despise some of the cronying that goes on in certain circles).

At the same time you have pushed mislynches on Vis and policy lynches.
You are also a hypocrite.

I also disagree on the RC flip, so that's not "scumhunting". That's scum commandeering a fucking easy ass mislynch on my fucking brother.

I will avenge RC's death tonight
leave MoI for me
someone res me tonight
I am stalking MoI, I will use my res kit I have gained after I have confirmed my kill.

[Furcolow]

@furcolow - did you just analyze counterwagons to MoI for scum prior to MoI scumflip? Please stop this.

1) you're not my boss
2) why, in your opinion, is this a bad thing?

[Furcolow]

Could everybody not voting ElG please state why you don't believe they are scummy, when even they have admitted that they'd vote for themselves due to their behaviour?

everybody makes mistakes
nobodies perfect
i had like 3 stalks in SA2 and i didnt kill anyone
if someone will res me tonight, though, i promise ill kill MoI
otherwise i might die

[Furcolow]

Because it's such bizzare play that it might just be genuine?

Nah, everything I said yesterday about Bowser is true of El G, only without a halfway decent excuse. He's scummy, the only real reason he didn't make my list before is that I didn't trust the wagon. Not for any particlar reason, just habit.

I agree with this, and tom is one of my town reads at this point
I feel uncomfortable jumping on El Goosuki not because of their slot, they have sucked balls (and I would expect more out of Ellibereth and DGB [hence why I warded them N0], but whatever), but their wagon feels scummy as fuck to me.

[Furcolow]

@Trilobyte: Cuz I like following confirmed town better.
@Seacore: That's exactly why they aren't scummy.
@Magna: Stop spamming man =.=. Your mini game posts were already enough to blurry my vision.

follow me then
what is the point of this post
who isnt scummy?
why are you telling MoI to stop spamming? he has like 2-3% of the posts, that is hardly spamming. Why are you so concerned with MoI? Cultist buddy getting mislynched, NoPointInActingUp? that's what my gut is tellin me bro

[Furpants_Tom]

I will avenge RC's death tonight
leave MoI for me
someone res me tonight
I am stalking MoI, I will use my res kit I have gained after I have confirmed my kill.

I like your moxie, Furc; but there's a couple of concerns. One is quite minor, in that a successful murder will make you bloody, and in the resus kit description it notes - "Destroyed when: You are Bloody."

Secondly, if MoI is actually cult, they'll definitely ward him tonight; because it's cheaper in terms of actions, blood and insanity than resuscitating him tomorrow. If MoI's not cult, my guess is they'll ward him tonight to convince us he's worth lynching tomorrow. While there's probably still a good case for someone to stalk him, to draw a valuable cult action; I still think your (almost) confirmed town status makes your actions a little bit too useful to put to this purpose. Are you totally, really, truly sure you won't rob two graves tonight?

[Furcolow]

if we can lynch babyspice or that nopointinactingmafia guy and noone robs the 2 graves i pick of my picking
then we might talk

[nopointinactingup]

Er no =). To me you're way less confirmed than Wicked. I want to keep MOI in the game becuz he would be a valuable asset if he was town. If he turns out not to be then we'll see.

[VP Baltar]

Have you people lost your minds? You apparently agree that moi is acting scummy, but you don't want to lynch him because he 'might be useful later if he's town'. That is the most ridiculous reason I have ever heard to not lynch a scummy player. If this is the defense that his cult buddies have come up for him, then it's pitiful and just makes me want to lynch him all the more. Let's not forget that it was Nicodemus that started that line of argumentation for preserving him I believe. More MoI votes.

[nopointinactingup]

Haha if you know me VP, I never defend a scumbuddy ^_^. And I don't feel strongly enough that MOI is scum to vote him. You got a problem with that? =)

[Wraith]

@VP: You didn't notice? I mean, it's quite obvious they're all insane.

[Trilobite]

Because as cult there would have been planning over night actions and such a useless action would have been thrown out the window. Basically why does a dumb move

have

to be scum motivated? I don't see it.

I just saw this and I think I can emphasise my point.

If manho or tnm claimed to investigate N1, I think they would have gotten away with it. Both could claim, "sorry, still not up with the rules".

There would have been a little fist shaking from the rest of us, pointing out hito had posted a guide, but it largely would have passed because of the page count.

So accepting that, scum could possibly have discussed claiming a crap night action as a good fake claim, along with searching for items, rezzing the ritual target and warding somebody. All I'm saying is they botched the night claim.

And you may have a point. Depending on what happens later on in the game this might be a good thing to build a case off, but right now I'm not ready to buy Elscum over Eltown. I also think the kunk and MoI cases are much more solid that your push on ElG. The fact they screwed up their night one action seems to be more of a null tell than anything seeing as you can explain it either way. I just think you are pushing a much more marginal case compared to the others out there.

For someone that is so careful with his vote Feysal's explaination for his Babyspice vote looks really bad. He is really climbing the scum list with this.

Was terribly interested in El G's (Well DGB) last couple of posts. Makes me think that DGB at least is starting to take an interest in the game.
Have to wonder why though. Or rather, why now? Perhaps the absent minded/dis-interest thing was an act and not working?
Which makes me wonder about their claimed n1 action. Sure it's a silly action but as a fake claim it suited the playstyle they were using, and as an added bonus makes us all believe that the N0 action was a search as claimed. What if it wasn't?

Why all the rhetorical type questions? If it is scummy,

say so

. If not, then don't bring it up. Also I don't like the attempt to make ElG look scummy for starting to play the game in effect. Would you rather they lurked?

~Sotty

[Trilobite]

I will avenge RC's death tonight
leave MoI for me
someone res me tonight
I am stalking MoI, I will use my res kit I have gained after I have confirmed my kill.

Or... we can simply lynch MoI.

Come on guys, only

you

can lynch cultbags!

... or prevent forest fires, I forget which.

[VP Baltar]

Haha if you know me VP, I never defend a scumbuddy ^_^. And I don't feel strongly enough that MOI is scum to vote him. You got a problem with that? =)

I don't have enough meta of you to know that...and that wasn't really the vibe I was getting from your post, but whatever. My only problem is that I feel very certain MoI is scum and would like to see him lynched today. It is your vote though.

@VP: You didn't notice? I mean, it's quite obvious they're all insane.

Yeah, it happens I guess. You still think El G is a better lynch than MoI?

Or... we can simply lynch MoI.

Come on guys, only you can lynch cultbags!

... or prevent forest fires, I forget which.

It's the former. No one can prevent forest fires when the main advocate is a bear named "Smokey". In this instance, MoI is the bear in always in the woods with the suspicious sounding name and the pocket full of matches. I don't really get this metaphor myself, but still, lynch da scumz.

[Wraith]

Yes. I really haven't seen anything particularly scummy about MoI except for the persistent tunneling against Furc.

[El Goosuki]

Nicodemus... needs to die... moar...

[Trilobite]

Or... we can simply lynch MoI.

Come on guys, only you can lynch cultbags!

... or prevent forest fires, I forget which.

It's the former. No one can prevent forest fires when the main advocate is a bear named "Smokey". In this instance, MoI is the bear in always in the woods with the suspicious sounding name and the pocket full of matches. I don't really get this metaphor myself, but still, lynch da scumz.

It was just a bad joke.

[VP Baltar]

lol, I got your joke...I was mocking my follow-up

Maybe bad humor will get people to see what the most pro-town players see as obvious...idk.

[Trilobite]

Er no =). To me you're way less confirmed than Wicked. I want to keep MOI in the game becuz he would be a valuable asset if he was town. If he turns out not to be then we'll see.

He would be? Is he a valuable asset to town now?

[Trilobite]

lol, I got your joke...I was mocking my follow-up

Maybe bad humor will get people to see what the most pro-town players see as obvious...idk.

Oh! I'm slow, sorry.

[Wraith]

I think El G is really trying to convince us he's a VI now.

[Percy]

Errors in vote counts are now all fixed.

Activity check tomorrow!

[Benmage]

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey look ... more pointless vote cheerleading.

I really don't have the willpower to slog through another round of 'You aren't scumhunting and are mean' and such tonight.

Perhaps I will have the will to deal with the repeition tomorrow.

[VP Baltar]

Hey look ... more pointless vote cheerleading.

I really don't have the willpower to slog through another round of 'You aren't scumhunting and are mean' and such tonight.

Perhaps I will have the will to deal with the repeition tomorrow.

Yeah, that's certainly the case on you... Still waiting for that opinion of obv. scum AV from you.