13p Normal [TM2015]

[Egg]

Your post was almost equally meaningless and empty. The only info we got from it is that you have no doubt in your mind Delta is being truthful.

[Trojan Horse]

So sthar isn't claiming a power role. Excellent. That means Delta is town.

Full disclosure: after we did the massclaim, Oversoul told me that he suspected we had a power role who lied. He told me not to reveal this suspicion to the group, so I didn't. I've been waiting waiting waiting for someone to finally come forward. This wait has not been easy.

In case there is any doubt about Delta being town: I've looked up all the mini games that Nexus has modded over the past few years. All of them had at least 3 protown power roles. So what are the odds that we would only get 2 protown power roles for this game, where one of them is a weak Bodyguard? Forget it. Delta is town.

Unless we can all agree on who to lynch.

There is literally no reason to do this. On the .0000000001% chance you're faking, we should still be no lynching today.

If I was a little more confident in my scumhunting abilities, I would agree with you. But I don't think I could handle the responsibility of casting the game-deciding vote. I want Delta to help me figure out who the last scum is. I think I want to lynch someone NOW, rather than waiting until tomorrow.

[Trojan Horse]

By the way:

N1: Tracked Jason to Pie

N2: Tracked Sthar to nowhere
N3: Tracked Boon but was roleblocked (thanks STD)

N4: Tracked Zachrules to Pie (Hate on me all you want for tracking this but I thought he could be scum after the STD incident)

N5: Tracked Trojan Horse to nowhere

I'm going to hate on you for tracking Zach night 4, because you'd already cleared him.

When Day 4 dawned, we already knew that the one remaining scum had made both of the nightkills. Thor didn't make any nightkills, because we lynched him day 1. Mala didn't make any nightkills, because STD blocked her night 1, and we lynched her day 2. (STD was dead at that point, so we knew he told the truth about blocking Mala.) So it must have been the 3rd scum that made the nightkills. The kill on night 1 was fen... but you tracked Jason to pie that night. So you should've known that Jason was town.

Bleh.

[Trojan Horse]

Sthar:

I'm trying to figure out why scum would leave STD alive if they had correctly figured out he was the RB on D2. given jason was a bogyguard and thus would (or rather, *should*) protect STD, I really do not think it would be worth it to no kill in that situation as opposed to shooting STD immediately - in other scenarios, it'd be worth it, but not when it'd get protected, I don't think. I'm not sure about this, though.

This.

UNLESS (tinfoil hat time) somebody decided to go all-in and gamble on outguessing jason

and

getting him lynched. I don't even want to think about the odds on that one, but it explains all the scum actions pointing to a high EV play. That makes me interested in the jason wagon, but I'm having a hard time reviewing the wagon movement since it apparently happened entirely between votecounts.

sthar, I can trust you, right? >.>

No? No shortcuts this game, you need to look at my play and decide if it's town or not. I'm a little disconcerted that nobody in thread is wondering why

I was looking for town power roles.

I

think it should be obvious, but apparently nobody else was doing it, so...

Egg may not care about this anymore, but I still do. Please clarify. Why were you "looking for town power roles"?

[DeltaWave]

I'm going to hate on you for tracking Zach night 4, because you'd already cleared him.

When Day 4 dawned, we already knew that the one remaining scum had made both of the nightkills. Thor didn't make any nightkills, because we lynched him day 1. Mala didn't make any nightkills, because STD blocked her night 1, and we lynched her day 2. (STD was dead at that point, so we knew he told the truth about blocking Mala.) So it must have been the 3rd scum that made the nightkills. The kill on night 1 was fen... but you tracked Jason to pie that night. So you should've known that Jason was town.

Bleh.

Was it ever confirmed by STD that he blocked Mala on N1? I thought it was just something that we all assumed. Anyway I was running up on the deadline and had to pick someone.

I'm really feeling sthar as the last scum.

[Trojan Horse]

Was it ever confirmed by STD that he blocked Mala on N1?

Yep:

The BCS for scum no killing is that jason is scum. I really don't think jason is scum.

If Jason isn't scum, he can save the RB one more night, and scum either can try to kill jason, the RB, someone else, or try to no kill again. There are 10 players alive. No killing just means they have to get even more mislynches. They're going to lose anyway.

No kill doesn't even guarantee that the rb didn't hit scum anyway.

There is also the possibility of a town BP out there but probably unlikely?

Anyway, I'm the RB.

Night 1: Malakittens
Night 2: Bins

I think we should lynch Bins today.

I'm really feeling sthar as the last scum.

Me too. And so is Tammy. In fact, she started scumreading sthar a while ago, and her read hasn't wavered, even as my scumreads have been jumping all over the place. The one thing that makes me hesitate is that sthar voted Thor with four days left in day 1, and at the time, Thor didn't seem to be in too much danger. Still, I've seen scum do weirder things than that. (For instance, a scum dayvigged a scummate during the last Team Mafia.)

I'm going to do some rereading, but part of me just wants to lynch sthar and be done with it.

[DeltaWave]

Sthar was on a prime bus position for Malakittens. It can't hurt us to take time and figure this out for sure though.

[sthar8]

Sthar:

I'm trying to figure out why scum would leave STD alive if they had correctly figured out he was the RB on D2. given jason was a bogyguard and thus would (or rather, *should*) protect STD, I really do not think it would be worth it to no kill in that situation as opposed to shooting STD immediately - in other scenarios, it'd be worth it, but not when it'd get protected, I don't think. I'm not sure about this, though.

This.

UNLESS (tinfoil hat time) somebody decided to go all-in and gamble on outguessing jason

and

getting him lynched. I don't even want to think about the odds on that one, but it explains all the scum actions pointing to a high EV play. That makes me interested in the jason wagon, but I'm having a hard time reviewing the wagon movement since it apparently happened entirely between votecounts.

sthar, I can trust you, right? >.>

No? No shortcuts this game, you need to look at my play and decide if it's town or not. I'm a little disconcerted that nobody in thread is wondering why

I was looking for town power roles.

I

think it should be obvious, but apparently nobody else was doing it, so...

Egg may not care about this anymore, but I still do. Please clarify. Why were you "looking for town power roles"?

So I could work out the game balance before massclaim. Figuring out the balance before everyone is claimed gives us an extra layer of threat to the scum. You can spot bad claims and behavior inconsistent with the setup without sacrificing the town night game. And then you can still massclaim for POE value, if you have to. Setup breaking is kind of my forte.

I was doing the same thing with Thor's claim on d1. His definite investigative didn't fit with what we knew about the setup and he was very clearly trying to out any other investigatives. By condemning him on the bad claim, we saved our power for later use. And then when Mala claimed, and pie wanted to out the RB, I was sure we could figure out the claim without STD hardclaiming, so I loudly refused pie's suggestion so there would be at least SOME uncertainty.

I've basically been playing the 'low scum information, high town information' game, and I'm surprised I haven't had to explain that before now, since it usually gets called out.

[sthar8]

So the current thought between you two is that I hardbussed one partner day 1, then let the other go down without a fight on day 2, then killed the only person with a solid townread on me heading into MYLO.

Seems solid.

[Egg]

The other option is that I screamed for a no lynch only to bus in the last minute before deadline, bussed again on Day 2, and killed Pie who was townreading me as well and could have even been set up as a paranoia lynch.

Also this is a blatant misrep of your situation:

 the only person with a solid townread on me

I was townreading you and was gonna have a hell of a time deciding between you and Trojan if Delta was killed (I was already pretty sure Delta was town due to Mala's actions). I also don't remember you being mentioned as a likely lynch or anything. If you do end up lynched, Delta's delayed claim is probably the reason for town's win. You were in pretty decent shape before that considering your buddies were lynched the first two days.

[sthar8]

If I was a little more confident in my scumhunting abilities, I would agree with you. But I don't think I could handle the responsibility of casting the game-deciding vote. I want Delta to help me figure out who the last scum is. I think I want to lynch someone NOW, rather than waiting until tomorrow.

Do not lie to yourself here. You are the game deciding vote. Nobody gets lynched unless you're OK with it. Trust DW, work with him, figure it out. But it comes down to you, and for you to blindly sheep the other town to a loss in MYLO is just as much your fault as if you pick wrong. Get your head in the game and play; this is what you signed up for.

[sthar8]

The other option is that I screamed for a no lynch only to bus in the last minute before deadline, bussed again on Day 2, and killed Pie who was townreading me as well and could have even been set up as a paranoia lynch.

Pie wasn't townreading you, liar. You were here preferred lynch for today. This doesn't even take a whole lot of fact checking.

Also this is a blatant misrep of your situation:

 the only person with a solid townread on me

I was townreading you and was gonna have a hell of a time deciding between you and Trojan if Delta was killed (I was already pretty sure Delta was town due to Mala's actions). I also don't remember you being mentioned as a likely lynch or anything. If you do end up lynched, Delta's delayed claim is probably the reason for town's win. You were in pretty decent shape before that considering your buddies were lynched the first two days.

You're scum. Your townread on me was going away the moment we hit MYLO anyway. But even if you weren't, why would I kill pie over either of Delta or TH? If I kill one of them, pie helps me mislynch you for the win.

[Trojan Horse]

So the current thought between you two is that I hardbussed one partner day 1, then let the other go down without a fight on day 2, then killed the only person with a solid townread on me heading into MYLO.

Seems solid.

No, my current thought is that you hardbussed one partner day 1, then fought to protect the other partner by going hard after Delta on day 2, then killed the only obvtown player heading into MYLO. The first part is admittedly weak, the second is solid IMO, and the third is a total null tell.

If I was a little more confident in my scumhunting abilities, I would agree with you. But I don't think I could handle the responsibility of casting the game-deciding vote. I want Delta to help me figure out who the last scum is. I think I want to lynch someone NOW, rather than waiting until tomorrow.

Do not lie to yourself here. You are the game deciding vote. Nobody gets lynched unless you're OK with it. Trust DW, work with him, figure it out. But it comes down to you, and for you to blindly sheep the other town to a loss in MYLO is just as much your fault as if you pick wrong. Get your head in the game and play; this is what you signed up for.

I'm not sheeping anyone. If Delta had said he was leaning towards lynching Egg, I would have contradicted him, and hopefully we could've come to a decision together. But it looks like we are agreeing with each other here.

[sthar8]

Delta was also obvtown heading into today. You were pretty obvtown too.

[sthar8]

It is exceptionally frustrating that we had the game solved and you two have decided to go crazy paranoia

[Trojan Horse]

Delta was also obvtown heading into today. You were pretty obvtown too.

What? Me obvtown, after my idiotic rant against Delta yesterday? No way.

Besides, if you had looked at my voting patterns from earlier in the game, you might come to the conclusion that I am scum. I didn't vote for Thor until there was no other option for me, and I spent a lot of time saying "I think Mala is scum" while voting for Vyse during day 2.

Had Delta not cleared me, I wouldn't have been surprised at all if I was the final mislynch.

[sthar8]

then fought to protect the other partner by going hard after Delta on day 2,

Also what the fuck is this? I was pushing Egg day 2. Go fact check please.

[sthar8]

Delta was also obvtown heading into today. You were pretty obvtown too.

What? Me obvtown, after my idiotic rant against Delta yesterday? No way.

Besides, if you had looked at my voting patterns from earlier in the game, you might come to the conclusion that I am scum. I didn't vote for Thor until there was no other option for me, and I spent a lot of time saying "I think Mala is scum" while voting for Vyse during day 2.

Had Delta not cleared me, I wouldn't have been surprised at all if I was the final mislynch.

No because Egg was sooo much worse. Like, he's actually scummy and I've been trying to lynch him all game.

You on the other hand were the

fucking counterwagon to the day1 scumlynch

[sthar8]

Like, egg literally just lied about the gamestate to create a narrative. Is nobody concerned about that?

[sthar8]

I need to go meet with a school counselor and a parent. I'll be back later. In the meantime, you two need to sober the fuck up.

[Trojan Horse]

Eh. I don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole, because we need to focus on who the last scum is. Okay, maybe I wasn't super-scummy, but pie was WAY more townie than I was. Pie was the obvious nightkill choice, regardless of which one of us is scum. Total null tell.

Okay, we'll pick this up later, sthar.

[Trojan Horse]

then fought to protect the other partner by going hard after Delta on day 2,

Also what the fuck is this? I was pushing Egg day 2. Go fact check please.

Yeah, that's right. Maybe this post is a good representative of sthar's reads during day 2:

Sthar, you said at the beginning of the day that Delta was scum. You seemed very sure of it but haven't really commented on him since. Do you have a case against him? Are you still scum reading him. You also said you don't like the Mala wagon. Do you think she's town? Am I right in assuming you'd prefer a Delta lynch to a Mala lynch?

I have a stronger scumread.
I asked everyone how they felt about his ISO and nobody posted anything that pointed to him being town that I remember.
I would prefer Delta-lynch to mala-lynch if we decide to ignore the good lynch today.
I am not townreading mala. She's pretty null since she hasn't really done much, but also hasn't really been given room to do anything but react. But there's no reason to compromise on a null or lurker or proficiency lynch today when my scumreads are viable wagons.

[Egg]

Trojan, sthar is actually right about one thing. You have Delta, your team, and even Delta's team to work with. Yes, use those resources, but the decision is yours as much as Delta's if we don't no lynch for whatever reason. I still feel like that's the right play though.

Sthar, Pie was town reading me for the entire game. Any possible scum read was probably more PoE than anything.

But even if you weren't, why would I kill pie over either of Delta or TH? If I kill one of them, pie helps me mislynch you for the win.

I'm going based on memory here, but I think Pie was townreading me more than Delta was. Still, Pie was enough of a universal town read aside from paranoia that the kill makes sense for anyone to make. I was mostly just saying that your WIFOM defense could be applied to myself just as much as you. You being scum is far from a crazy thought and your attempt to paint it that way should tell Delta and Trojan a lot.

2341 by sthar just made Trojan's point for him. You weren't hardbussing mala if you were pushing me.

2345 by Trojan is right. Pie was an obvkill for anyone unless they thought paranoia was the way to go.

Trojan, that last post is textbook scumbuddy wagon reaction.

[Egg]

1276 by sthar is what I'm referring to on that last line.

[sthar8]

Pie was the obvious nightkill choice, regardless of which one of us is scum. Total null tell.

Okay, we'll pick this up later, sthar.

UNLESS I'M THE SCUM.

If I'm the scum, delta and you are better NK's, because Pie was ready to lynch egg today. If I'm scum, I silenced the fastest and best route to victory in order to take an undecided and a player I argued with on day2 into MYLO.