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Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 5:57 am
by GuyInFreezer
In post 2350, TheReverend wrote:If there's more than the "town mindset" you speak of, then yes, I'm curious. I'm also interested in why MS is town.
First of all his thought process is natural. Second of all, scum Varsoon loves deflecting when pressured. I don't see him deflecting in this game, and rather see him try to work with ppl when pressured, which is his towngame.
MS town, well this is bit hard for me to explain. When I wanted to start a wagon on him, I wanted to see if I could force more content out of him. He being lazy is a null tell, but his "idgaf" stance and not giving up on his "hey I did read his iso and posted under a minute" seems like a town stubbornness to me.
Also AJ's "summary" post looks lazy as hell and contains a lot of mud slinging.
VOTE: AJ
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 5:58 am
by GuyInFreezer
oh yeah. VOTE: tag is only for chatmafia. Derp.
VOTE: AJ
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 5:58 am
by BeautyAndTheBeast
In post 2357, Cabd wrote:Yes, I'm aware of the distinction.
That's all I really wanted out of the exchange was to hear your case aside from the ongoing game stuff. See? It just took me apparently pissing you off to get it.
Can I have your case on AJ too, please?
here is an idea
how about you do your own scumhunting? like if you are sus of aj shouldn't you be pursuing him and asking
him
questions and not me. or better yet, do something to pursue your 2 scum read. don't just take my word for it cos there is a chance that I could be wrong, I just don't think I am.
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:04 am
by ²
Oh he does? I'm looking forward to hearing about that because it's my impression that you are being paranoid about f due to history and that Nacho is blindly sheeping you because he doesn't know better.
Do you by any chance remember the supposed scum read Nacho has on us?
Also, f will probably address the points you have raised wrt her if she didn't already. Whatever you think your read is leading to the conclusion that we're scum, it necessarily is based on flawed logic, so it's really just a matter of figuring out where you went wrong. The more specific you can be, the better. At least you're being a bit more explicit about your reasons now.
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:08 am
by TheReverend
@varsoon... have you been scum before?
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:08 am
by ²
In post 2354, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:I also have a light scum read on buldey just based off his play. the only thing that remotely looks genuine was his outrage that I would think that he would spam the thread intentionally as a scum tactic. his outrage looked genuine and it probably is cos all that he is saying here is that he spams the thread regardless of alignment. <----- alignment neutral so he gets no points for genuine outrage. everything else looks vaguely scummy and his epic flail earlier looks like scum who has been caught not frustrated town. nacho and I will talk and we will go from there.
You have an unseen talent of turning anything I do or say into scummy behavior once you have decided that I'm scum. It really
is
pointless to attempt to have a meaningful conversation with you because of this. Do I have to start linking to games in which I was town and you were absolutely convinced that you caught me in scum behavior X Y Z and got me mislynched because of it?
- b
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:10 am
by Varsoon
Yeah, I linked those games in this thread, I think.
Regardless, yeah, and I typically am either super-obvious or I play unbearably long-winded town.
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:11 am
by ²
He said he'd be back today.
- b
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:11 am
by Aj The Epic
In post 2363, TheReverend wrote:Ok let me ask you aj... are you leaning scum or town with me? How has your miller read evolved since sven left?
I don't have a read on you. I mentioned it earlier: I'd leave you around to see what comes of your tracking. If something that clears you as town comes along, you're fine. If not, I'd try to get you vigged while safely out of any lylo situation. Too much questioning arrives from a Miller role
As for how I'd play it, I simply wouldn't claim. In a 20 player game, the likelyhood of me getting investigated is low. At that point, I could simply give my results from tracking and take the lynch because there'd be no reason to stay around after hiding it if I ever got investigated.
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:12 am
by TheReverend
Damn, I thought GiF just scumslipped. Ok, so why earlier did you say "I'm always town"?
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:12 am
by ²
I think this is the first time all game you have even entertained the possibility of you being wrong. Glad to see that you're at least making progress.
- b
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:13 am
by BeautyAndTheBeast
In post 2372, ² wrote: In post 2345, Cabd wrote:It is unethical as fuck to push a lynch on "illegal" evidence that you can't even speak about.
It is, but it happens all of the time. The solution to the problem is obviously to allow all talk about ongoing games site-wide - I don't understand why the rule was made in the first place because you can't really ignore available information, you can only whistle and act as if it's not there and your decision is based on something else.
But that's all besides the point in this game. Mollie is making a mistake with her meta-read as evident by us being town, but we can't actually point out that mistake. In effect, she is abusing (perhaps not deliberately) the fact that she is prohibited from bringing into this game the details about the content of the ongoing game that she is already referring to (that is, she could do this exact thing as scum as well and pretend to have a meta read from an ongoing game, knowing that she couldn't be questioned on it because that would be against the rules, and there is no way to refute this hypothesis). The most likely scenario is that she found something that easily could be refuted, but since she can't talk about it she wont realize that and she also can't just pretend it's not there and ignore it. This all boils down to the rules being retarded as fuck.
- b
you disingenuous little shithead. you are really fucking slimey you know that? that isn't at all what is going on and you perfectly well know it. you are using what I can't talk about to try to discredit me <-------scum
VOTE: 2
mac, rev plz vote 2 it will make me happy
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:16 am
by Aj The Epic
In post 2371, Varsoon wrote:You seem to forgot that I claimed town. Guess you mean PR claims. In that case, then, be specific.
inb4 claiming town means nothing/wifom.
Come on. Everyone here, if asked, would claim town. It's not wifom, it's stupid.
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:16 am
by TheReverend
I feel much better about an AJ lynch than 2. I'd rather wait until nacho and orc are back before voting 2 again.
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:17 am
by ²
In post 2386, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote: In post 2372, ² wrote: In post 2345, Cabd wrote:It is unethical as fuck to push a lynch on "illegal" evidence that you can't even speak about.
It is, but it happens all of the time. The solution to the problem is obviously to allow all talk about ongoing games site-wide - I don't understand why the rule was made in the first place because you can't really ignore available information, you can only whistle and act as if it's not there and your decision is based on something else.
But that's all besides the point in this game. Mollie is making a mistake with her meta-read as evident by us being town, but we can't actually point out that mistake. In effect, she is abusing (perhaps not deliberately) the fact that she is prohibited from bringing into this game the details about the content of the ongoing game that she is already referring to (that is, she could do this exact thing as scum as well and pretend to have a meta read from an ongoing game, knowing that she couldn't be questioned on it because that would be against the rules, and there is no way to refute this hypothesis). The most likely scenario is that she found something that easily could be refuted, but since she can't talk about it she wont realize that and she also can't just pretend it's not there and ignore it. This all boils down to the rules being retarded as fuck.
- b
you disingenuous little shithead. you are really fucking slimey you know that? that isn't at all what is going on and you perfectly well know it. you are using what I can't talk about to try to discredit me <-------scum
VOTE: 2
mac, rev plz vote 2 it will make me happy
It's
exactly
what's going on. How the fuck am I using "what you can't talk about" to discredit you? I'm telling you and others that you are wrong and that we can't show you where you're wrong because you can't even tell us what it is you think you're right about. I don't see any fucking way you're scum this game, but I swear that if you are and you made up this meta read to get us mislynched then I will never play with you again.
- b
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:17 am
by BeautyAndTheBeast
In post 2374, ² wrote: In post 2354, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:let's stop here. not being shown and not existing are two very different things. do you understand this? <----- this is a question I want you to answer. I want to make sure you understand. it is a yes or no question I don't want to hear anything else but yes or no.
If you were this condescending to me I'd tell you to go fuck yourself.
- b
this is a fluff post
there is no purpose to this post but to fuel the spat between cabd and I. cabd is cleared for that alone cos the only motivation behind that post is a scum one encouraging a town on town tard fight. town buldey can tune out town noise, scum buldey is actively encouraging it.
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:19 am
by BeautyAndTheBeast
In post 2385, ² wrote:I think this is the first time all game you have even entertained the possibility of you being wrong. Glad to see that you're at least making progress.
- b
why are you trying to make me angry buldey?
cos there was no purpose to this post.
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:19 am
by ²
I'm not particularly liking an AJ lynch just because I feel like AJ would have to be exceptionally skilled to play this way as scum - I still don't get why we're letting the "low hanging fruit" that is TMT live.
- b
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:20 am
by BeautyAndTheBeast
In post 2388, TheReverend wrote:I feel much better about an AJ lynch than 2. I'd rather wait until nacho and orc are back before voting 2 again.
2 is more dangerous. the head before the ass. do you know who taught me this? fery.
leave aj to get himself lynched at this point. it will be an easy one for tomorrow
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:21 am
by Aj The Epic
2, it's psychology. When you convince yourself of something, there is no reasonable way to change that opinion by someone else. Which is why I've stopped fighting it. If it's inevitable, I'll get lynched and simply move on to the other games I'm in.
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:21 am
by Varsoon
In post 2384, TheReverend wrote:
Damn, I thought GiF just scumslipped. Ok, so why earlier did you say "I'm always town"?
Nah, GIF's too clever to do something that obvious.
I said I'm always town because I typically get given town roles (and usually very unimpressive ones).
In the only games I've played scum, scum had huge advantages over town. In the Lylo game, all you had to do was make a convincing wagon on the other town, or let town duke it out. In Empking mafia, both the us (the scum) could redirect the investigations against us, and there were 2 Role Cops. Days were really short in both games, leading to town not having much consensus/info to lynch on.
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:22 am
by Varsoon
In post 2392, ² wrote:I'm not particularly liking an AJ lynch just because I feel like AJ would have to be exceptionally skilled to play this way as scum - I still don't get why we're letting the "low hanging fruit" that is TMT live.
- b
Build a case against TMT, then.
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:22 am
by ²
@mollie (and mac too, though I think mac has actually seen some of the changes in my game over the last couple months)
link to my most recently completed game:
http://www.forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopi ... 83&t=28260
I am not playing to my off-site meta in MS games. my game at MS has been growing more tentative over the last couple of months for a variety of reasons, mostly related to realizing that my offsite game doesn't work here, not without some serious refitting.
I am not sure how long it will take for me to settle on something that works better here. I'm still wrapping my head around all the subtle strategy and tactics associated with majority lynch. The big and obvious stuff are big and obvious but it hardly ends with them.
I've sai before that I expect to get lynched early more often than my norm while I adjust. I have been thinking this game will
not
be one of those occasions, because I keep thinking that you'll figure some of this out on your own. Starting to think that I am wrong.
- f
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:24 am
by TheReverend
In post 2393, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote: In post 2388, TheReverend wrote:I feel much better about an AJ lynch than 2. I'd rather wait until nacho and orc are back before voting 2 again.
2 is more dangerous. the head before the ass. do you know who taught me this? fery.
leave aj to get himself lynched at this point. it will be an easy one for tomorrow
2 is also more useful if town. It's d1 and this hydra has over 400 posts. Yes, a lot of fluff, and it could be a delibate tactic to keep himself top of the post count, but if he flips town or scum tomorrow, for example, we have so much more to analyse than if he flips town or scum today. Plus there's the chance of him being cleared (or damned) by night actions.
An AJ townflip wouldn't be quite the disaster a 2 townflip would be. But I can be convinced to vote 2 if this is the direction you, orc, nacho and mac agree on.
Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 6:26 am
by ²
In post 2390, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote: In post 2374, ² wrote: In post 2354, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:let's stop here. not being shown and not existing are two very different things. do you understand this? <----- this is a question I want you to answer. I want to make sure you understand. it is a yes or no question I don't want to hear anything else but yes or no.
If you were this condescending to me I'd tell you to go fuck yourself.
- b
this is a fluff post
there is no purpose to this post but to fuel the spat between cabd and I. cabd is cleared for that alone cos the only motivation behind that post is a scum one encouraging a town on town tard fight. town buldey can tune out town noise, scum buldey is actively encouraging it.
If anything me pointing out that you were being condescending works to your advantage. Even if I were trying to manipulate him into fighting you instead of trusting you (which isn't the case), why would that be scum motivated rather than town motivated?
- b